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Welcome to Untethered Consciousness, hosted by Rod Bland, where we share stories and insights to help you answer the most fundamental of questions: Who am I?
Through the conversations that we have with our guests, we aim to help you reach your own conclusions about the nature of our existence.
So I see this big flash
of light come out of
the phone, hits me in
the face, and throws me
back like a rag doll.
And it really
threw me backwards.
And that's when things
really got interesting
because as I was being thrown
backwards, all of a sudden
I had this very strange
sensation of moving forwards.
My guest today is Dr.
Tony Cicoria, MD.
He just prefers Tony.
He's a practicing orthopedic
surgeon who had a near
death experience back in
1994, and he's here to
tell us what caused his
NDE and some of the pretty
amazing things that have
happened to him since then.
Tony, welcome and thanks so
much for coming on the show.
Thank you.
I appreciate being invited.
It's pretty crazy.
This opposite ends of the
earth thing, isn't it?
Oh, it, it is absolutely
incredible that, you go
through life thinking, is
there going to be a tomorrow?
And here I am talking
to somebody in tomorrow.
yep.
I guess you're a guarantee
that there is a tomorrow.
Exactly.
Yep.
I'm Friday.
Your Thursday.
Tony, would you give us a
little bit of background
on your life up to the
day of your NDE and then
we can go from there?
Okay.
I grew up in upstate New
York, Kingston, New York.
I went to the Citadel, which
was a military college in
South Carolina in 1970.
And when I graduated, I went
to get my PhD in physiology
and I had the great honor
to work with Albert St.
Georgie, my senior
year in college.
He was up at the Massachusetts
one of the Oceanic labs,
and I'm drawing a blank.
At any rate, I thought
for sure that I wanted
to be a scientist and
I went to get my PhD.
And when I finished,
the options were limited
for what I wanted to do.
I could be a lab rat
in somebody's basement.
And I thought that
this, it's not what I
thought it was gonna be.
At the time I was in love
with the idea of the old
scientists and they would, go
for walks in the park around
the lake and share great
ideas and help each other.
And all of that
disappeared over time.
And it became a publish
or perish environment.
And I thought, you know what?
I'm gonna take it
a step further.
And I decided to go
to medical school.
So as soon as I finished, I
continued at the same place
at the Medical University
of South Carolina and
and decided to get my MD.
And as I was going through
that, trying to decide what
type of physician I wanted
to be, I decided I wanted
to be an orthopedic surgeon
because I was always one
of those kids that liked to
take things apart and put
'em back together again.
So it seemed like a
natural aptitude for me.
And so I did that and in 1988
I started working and we were
in upstate New York a place
called Oneonta, New York.
And my wife normally would
have a big party every August
and in this particular August
of 1994 was gonna be at a
place called Sleepy Hollow
Lake in upstate New York,
which is just below Albany,
and that's where we're
gonna have this big party.
About 25 people.
Lots of kids running around.
And my wife had rented
a pavilion to have this
multiple birthday party at.
And I was elected the
cook, and that's the
way the day started.
And then as I was out working
the barbecue I thought I
hadn't checked on my mom
cuz she was not there and I
thought I better go call her.
So I, I got somebody to cover
the barbecue and I walked
around in the front of the
building and there was a
payphone attached to it and
I'm gonna give my mom a call.
And I picked up the phone
and I dialed her number and
let it ring 4, 5, 6 times
and she never picked up.
So I was, I thought, oh,
I, I'll try again later.
And as I took the phone away
from my face I heard a huge
crack and I saw this big flash
of light come out of the phone
and hit me in the face, and
I knew exactly what it was.
It was like a
lightning strike.
What I hadn't realized because
I was paying attention to the
grill, was that a storm cloud
had brewed up over the lake
that we were next to, and I
hadn't been paying attention.
So I see this big flash
of light come out of
the phone, hits me in
the face, and throws me
back like a rag doll.
And it really
threw me backwards.
And that's when things really
got interesting because as I
was being thrown backwards,
all of a sudden I had this
very strange sensation of
moving forwards And I remember
standing there thinking,
how is this possible?
I know I got hit, I saw
it, and I knew I'd been
thrown back like a rag doll.
And here I am standing
and I'm looking around.
I look at the phone and
the phone is just dangling.
And nothing's
making any sense.
And at that point I hear my
mother-in-law screaming and
I'm down at the bottom of the
stairs and everybody else is
up on the first floor and I
hear her screaming and all of
a sudden she's running down
the stairs right at me and
I'm thinking, and it's not
good when your mother-in-law's
screaming and running at you.
And as she got down in front
of me, I could tell that
she couldn't see me cuz she
was looking off to her left.
And as she got to the
bottom of the stairs, it was
like I wasn't even there.
And she just took off to
the left and I thought,
what the hell is going on?
And so I started to follow
her and I took a few steps
following her and all of
a sudden I'm confronted
with myself on the ground.
And I remember looking down
and going, oh shit, I'm dead.
It wa it was a shock.
I guess all of my life
I thought that, when you
died there would be some
sort of notification.
Either who knows what it
was, but I didn't expect to
have it not even be known.
I thought there'd be
some bells or whistles
that would go off, but it
was absolutely nothing.
So I'm standing there and
I'm looking at myself on
the ground, and as this is
happening, my mind is racing
like crazy and I'm trying
to make sense of this and
all of a sudden I'm saying
to myself, wait a minute.
I'm thinking just
like I normally would.
And I'm obviously not in that
body that's on the ground.
I'm standing out here.
I can hear everybody.
I can see everybody, but
nobody can see or hear me.
And I'm trying to get
their attention and
nothing seemed to work.
And then I saw this lady
who actually was waiting
to use the phone behind me.
And she started to
get down to do CPR.
Turns out she was a nurse from
one of the local hospitals,
and how fortuitous is that?
Get struck by lightning
and have somebody waiting
to save your ass from
going to the other side.
So she got down and
she starts doing what
she's supposed to do.
And at this point I'm
thinking, nobody can see
me, nobody can hear me.
And I'm feeling stupid and
I thought I'm gonna go check
on my family cuz they were
upstairs and my wife and
my three kids are up there.
And I thought I'm gonna
go up the stairs and
see what's going on.
So I walk over to the stairs
and I start to go up and I
get to about the third stair.
And I'm looking down at
the stairs cuz I always,
I'm afraid I'm gonna fall
face forward on the stairs.
So I always watch
what I'm doing.
And as I'm looking down,
I noticed that my legs are
starting to dissolve and
I thought, whoa, this is
getting really intense.
And I just kept
going up the stairs.
By the time I got to
the top of the stairs,
I had lost all form.
I was just a ball of energy.
And the stairs go
off to the left.
And I said, what the hell?
I'm not gonna go
up the stairs.
I just went through the wall.
And when I got to the other
side of the wall, I came out
right over the top of where
my wife was sitting and she's
painting children's faces.
And I made a mental note of
where the kids were, where
who was standing where.
Who the kids were and what
pattern they were standing in.
I don't know why I
did that, but I did.
And later on I verified
that was exactly the
way they were standing.
And so traveled through
this room and when I got to
the other side of the room,
I was going on a diagonal
and I went through the roof.
And suddenly I'm outside.
And that's when things
really got crazy interesting
because it was like I had
fallen into a river of pure
positive energy and there
wasn't anything in this river
of energy except absolute
love and absolute peace.
And it was just, it was
absolutely shaking to
experience it because it
was devoid of anything else.
And it was this bluish white
light and it had a sparkly
appearance to it, and it
made me think of when I was
a kid and I'd be swimming
in a crystal clear stream
and I'd see the sun shining
through the water as I
was underneath the water.
And it reminded me of that.
And as I was looking at this
light energy, and I could
tell what it felt like.
And as I looked around,
I started to see that
whatever this energy was, it
actually made up everything.
And I could look at the
trees and see the energy
flowing into the trees and
everything was made up of
whatever this energy was.
And I thought to myself,
I'm thinking, this
is the God energy.
This is what
everything is made of.
And I thought, this
is so powerful.
I can, I could measure this.
And so my science brain is
kicking in going, we can,
we could look at this.
And I'm like, but and
the more I looked at it,
I could actually see the
energy pattern and it
had a sine wave pattern.
And I could see it flowing.
And it went
through everything.
And at this point I could tell
that I was moving someplace.
Had no idea where I was going.
But I could feel
speed and direction.
So I was accelerating in, into
something, but I had no idea
what, and at this point I've
become absolutely euphoric
over the fact that this is
the greatest thing that could
ever happen to somebody.
And I, I had a short period
where I saw high points
and low points in my life.
Almost like a collage of
pictures just, showed me
pictures of this and this
and that and there wasn't
a lot of emotion around it.
It was just, these are
things that happened in
your life that were of some
significance, and there was
no explanation other than the
fact that they just passed on.
And so I settled down and
I'm floating in this river
of pure positive energy.
And I'm thinking, again, this
is the greatest thing that
could ever happen to somebody.
And I was just excited
about where it was going.
And then all of a sudden it
was like somebody flipped
a switch and I was back in
my body and I was pissed.
I was like, no, don't
make me go back and you
can't do this to me.
And I quickly realized
that's not up to me.
And I'm laying there on
the ground and in the place
where it hit me in the face
and came out my foot, it
felt like somebody had taken
hot pokers and stuck them
in both of those places.
But I'm still unconscious
and the lady who was next
to me had stopped CPR and
she's just kneeling next to
me, but I still can't open
my eyes or look at anybody.
And so it took several minutes
before I had enough mental
function to be able to open
my eyes and say anything.
And at that point I just
embarrassed myself because
the first thing I said to
this lady who's kneeling next
to me, that saved my life, I
said, it's okay I'm a doctor.
And she just kinda
laughed and she said you
weren't a minute ago.
And I thought, okay, none
of this is making sense
and I'm just making a fool
of myself, so I'm gonna
shut up, which I did.
And of course, the police
and the ambulance came and
I said, no, I'm not going.
When you get struck
by lightning, you're
either alive or dead.
There's not much in between.
And it's, at that point I
said, just talk to my family.
And I said, take me home.
Let me see my cardiologist,
my neurologist and let's,
let me just get out of this.
So that's what happened.
And so they took me home
and I saw my doctors and
everybody said the same thing.
You're lucky to be here.
And I was like, okay but I was
tormented by what did it mean?
When I started to think about
it and, everything in life
is a series of probabilities.
And I started thinking about
what's the possibility or
the probability of a bolt of
lightning, several million
volts worth, striking a
building, losing enough of
its current by the time it
gets to you that it doesn't
turn you into a french fry,
it just stops your heart.
And then I think, and what's
the probability of having
a nurse standing behind
you so that just in case
you got a little too much,
somebody was gonna be there
to jumpstart your heart again.
And, when I started
looking at all this stuff,
I'm thinking there's
nothing random about this.
And as Einstein used to say,
God does not throw dice.
And that's true.
And I'm a firm believer
that everything
happens for a reason.
But I was given no reasons.
I had no idea.
And I was haunted by the fact
that this thing had happened
and I had no idea why and
what it meant or what I was
supposed to take from it.
And then shortly after
that, it was about two
weeks after the event.
So after the lightning,
it took me about a week
to get the circuits
running again properly.
That first week I could
look right at you.
And say, I know who you are.
I'll be damned if I
can find your name.
It's locked in a box
someplace up there
and I can't get to it.
And there were a lot
of things like that.
I just I knew that I knew
something, but I couldn't
get to where that file was.
And after a week that
disappeared and it seemed like
everything was back to normal.
But about another week or
two after that, I started
having this really incredible
desire to hear classical piano
music, which was a really
strange thing for me because
I was a kid of the sixties.
There was rock and
roll and there wasn't
much of anything else.
My mother had made
me play piano when I
was seven years old.
She made me take lessons
for a year and I, out of
obligation, I did that.
Actually was probably under
threat of life and limb.
But I did it and never had any
interest and never went back.
But all of a sudden I, I
can't do anything without
thinking about this absolute
desire to hear this.
And it was so strong that
I drove an hour to Albany,
which was the nearest
big city that would have
classical piano music on CDs.
And I went into this music
store, and as I walked in
there, it seemed like there
was a CD that just jumped
off the shelf into my hands,
and it was Vladimir Ashkenazi
playing his favorite Chopan.
Ashkenazi was one of
the famous Russian
pianists, is one of the
famous Russian pianists.
He's still alive.
And at this point I
didn't know what to
do with all of it.
It was just, I was so
taken by this the music
and I started listening
to the CD and I listened
to it nonstop and I made
everybody else listen to it.
I'm sure they were
sick of hearing it.
But, I just couldn't stop.
It was just a compulsion
that had made no sense to me.
But within a very short
period of time of listening
to this music, I realized
that it's not gonna be enough
to listen to this music.
I need to know how to play
it, which was a big problem
since I didn't have a piano
and I didn't know how to play.
But I was undeterred.
And the very next day, one
of our babysitters came
to the house and said, I'm
gonna be moving and I have
this old upright piano I
need to store for a year.
Could I store it
at your house?
And I'm thinking, okay, this
is really getting weird now.
So all of a sudden
I have a piano.
And she loads the piano in
the house and I'm thinking,
all right, now I need to know
how to learn how to play.
So I went and bought a
couple books and how to try
to teach yourself to play.
And at the same time,
I ordered all the sheet
music from the cd, which
is, magical thinking.
I don't know what the
hell I was thinking.
There are people who have
been playing this stuff
for 10 years and still
wouldn't attempt to do that.
But it didn't seem to matter.
I was determined to learn how
to do this, and so I started
to try to teach myself,
and within a few more weeks
of that, I go into bed as
normal, but all of a sudden
I, I have this dream and
in this dream, It was like
an out of body experience.
I'm actually, I'm walking out
onto the stage and I'm walking
toward myself and I'm way
out on the front edge of the
stage and I'm at a, I'm giving
a concert at this concert
hall and I'm listening to
this music that I'm playing.
And as I'm walking up
behind myself, the thought
comes to me that this is
not somebody else's music.
This is mine.
And I thought, okay.
So I, I'd start listening
intently to it, and I walked
up behind myself and I'm
listening to what I'm playing
and I'm watching everything
and I'm looking at the concert
hall and the ending had this
loud crashing ending and it
woke me up and I, so I got up.
And I sat on the edge of the
bed and I looked around and
it was 3:15 in the morning
and I walked out to the
piano and I thought let me
see if I can plunk some of
this out that I just heard.
I had no idea, and I didn't
know how to write music.
I didn't know how
to read music.
And so I sat there and
I could plunk out a few
notes of what I heard, but
I didn't even know how to
write down what they were.
And so I said, the
hell with this.
And I went to bed and I woke
up always at 5 30, 6 o'clock,
cuz that was my time to get
up and get ready for work.
And from that moment
on, whenever I went near
that piano, the music
from the dream would
start to play in my head.
So whenever I sat down,
at the piano, it was
like a tape recording,
it would just start.
And if I didn't pay
attention to it, it
would become intrusive.
It would actually start
playing when I was trying
to work or when I was
trying to do something else.
And so I learned very quickly
that it was kinda like a
two year old, you really
had to pay attention to
it or there was gonna be
some repercussions from it.
And so this process went on
and I continued trying to
teach myself and I picked
out a few of the pieces from
that CD that I thought, I'm
gonna learn these first.
And I started trying to
teach myself and one day I'm
banging away at the piano
and my daughter's best friend
Jackie was over at the house
and her mom was coming by to
pick her up and she came in
the house and she heard me
on the piano and she came in
and said, what are you doing?
And I said, I'm trying to
learn this piece of music.
It was called The Fantasy
Impromptu, a piece of Chopan.
And I said, I don't understand
why the hands don't line
up in this piece of music.
I said why would somebody
write a piece of music where
the hands don't line up?
And she said they're
not supposed to.
And I said, why?
And she said, it's
called a poly rhythm.
And I said, I'd never
heard of that word before.
And I was like, why
would anyone do that?
And she said, I'm
not even gonna try to
explain this to you.
You need to get a teacher.
So at that point she gave me
the name of Sandy McCain, who
was the chairman of music at
Hartwick College in Onionto,
New York where we lived.
And I called up Sandy and
told her this whole story
and asked her if she'd
take on an old guy to try
to teach him some piano.
And she did.
And we started working
two hours a week.
The only time we had in
common was five o'clock.
So five o'clock
was our piano time.
Five o'clock in the morning.
So I'm sure that her family
was not real happy with me,
but that was the best we could
do to meet the two schedules.
And so this went on
for quite some time.
And then as I'm learning to
play, I'm also working on
the music from this dream.
And as I learned how to do
things, I would write down a
measure or two and I'd stuff
it in a drawer someplace,
thinking, someday I'll
get back to all of this.
And I kept working on
learning how to play, and
I started going to a music
camp, a piano camp for adults
in Bennington, Vermont,
which was called a Sonata.
And it was, it's
a group of people.
They would meet four or
five, six times a year.
Different people and at
different times, and it's all
people that are absolutely
obsessed with piano and
then this is their week
of indulging themselves.
And so I started
going to that in 2002.
In 2006 when I went,
the owner's sister Erica
Vander Lynn Seidner.
Erica was the number one
salesperson for Steinway
in New York City, and she
had just left Steinway and
went to Bosendorfer, and she
was there at the piano camp
and she brought five pianos
in for people to play on,
which was an absolute treat.
And we got talking about
all of this stuff and the
music and the music from
the dream and the things
that I was working on and
afterwards, she said to
me, there's only one person
that can tell this story,
and that's Oliver Sacks.
And at the time I didn't
know who Oliver Sacks was
other than the fact that he
wrote the book Awakenings,
when he figured out how to
treat Parkinson's Disease.
He's a famous neurologist,
and I didn't think
anything more of it.
And so I went about
my normal business.
And it seemed like that was
in May, that meeting was.
And in June, I get a phone
call from Oliver Sacks and I'm
like, oh, this can't be real.
And Oliver says, I've
heard about this lightning
story and I'd like to have
you come down to New York
City to interview you.
I'd like you to be
one of my patients.
I have a collection of
people like you who have
had unusual things happen.
And I said, sure,
that would be great.
So in August of that year,
2006, I went down to see
Oliver Sachs and I got to
spend the whole day with him,
which is an absolute treasure.
This was a man who could
think circles around anybody
I knew, including myself.
And he, we spent the
entire day together which
I will never forget, and
at the end of the day,
we're standing in the
doorway and saying goodbye.
And he looked at me and
he had this piercing way
of looking at people.
And he looked at me and he
says, the music from the
dream went through an awful
lot of trouble to get here.
The least you can
do is write it.
And I was so taken
with what he said.
I went right home.
And it was about three
hours to get back home.
So I had plenty of
time to think about it.
But when I got home, the
next day, I went right out
and bought a music writing
program called Sebelius,
which is the equivalent of
music writing for dummies.
And if you have an
electric piano, you can
hook this thing up so that
you can play something
and the music actually
appears on the screen.
And so that was the way
I started because by that
point, I had gotten to where
I could play some parts of the
music from the dream, but I
had no idea how to write it.
And so I spent the next
seven months, every minute
that I wasn't working,
writing down this music.
My goal was to get it written
for my next May piano camp.
And so that was my goal.
And so when piano camp came
around in May I had finished
the music and played it for
my piano friends at this piano
camp, and everybody liked it.
And I thought, okay,
this is pretty cool.
While I was there, I got
a call from Oliver and
he says, I wanted to ask
your permission to, to
use your story in my book.
And I thought I don't
have anything to
hide, sure, go ahead.
He said, good cuz you're
chapter one and it's
coming out July 23rd.
I said, we got a little ahead
of ourselves here and sure
enough, my story was published
in the New Yorker magazine the
July 23rd edition, 2007, and.
At that point, all hell
broke loose because, this
was, I hadn't been telling
a lot of people about this
story and cuz I didn't
want people to think I was
crazy and suddenly it's got
taken out of the closet and
thrown out and everybody's
for everybody to look at.
And about a week after it
came out, I got a call from
a guy named Carlton Clay.
Carlton was the head
of the music department
at State University of
New York in Onionta.
And Carlton says, I
read this article and he
says, I'd love for you to
come and teach a class.
And I thought, look, that
would be pretty interesting
cuz I like to teach
and do unusual things.
And I said, sure.
And a week later he calls
and says, I'm getting
inundated with phone
calls about this thing.
He said, would you
consider playing the
music for the class?
And I thought, I'll do that.
And then it seemed like it
was another month or so after
that, Carlton calls again, and
he says, you won't believe it.
I'm just getting hammered
with people calling here and
everybody wants more and more.
And he said, would you
consider doing a concert at
the performing arts center?
And I said no, I don't have
the faintest idea how to
do something like that.
I said I'm not musically
trained, I'm not prepared.
I have no idea where to start.
And somehow he conned
me into doing it.
And I said, okay, I'll do it.
So the next phone call
I make is I call Sandy,
my music teacher.
And I said Carlton conned
me into doing this thing.
And so I said I would,
and it's gonna be
in January of 2008.
And I said, can you
get me ready for it?
And she said, it's
gonna be a lot of work.
She said, you gotta be
prepared to put three
or four hours a day into
getting ready for this.
And I'm like, okay.
We start on this process
and we would go up into the
performing arts center and
she would make me walk out on
stage and make me walk off.
She would, make me talk
to the crowd and then
make me play the music
and, I can still hear her.
She'd be up in a top
row of the seats.
And I'd be playing away and
she'd go, I can't hear you.
Oh my God, this is
gonna be no fun.
But, we worked along and
then about a few weeks
before the concert, Carlton
calls me again and he says,
things are changing again.
And I said, what
are you doing?
And he says, the BBC one
wants to come and so does
German television, and
so does Granada Media.
So there's three huge
sets that want to come
and film this thing.
And I was like, oh my
God, I've come too far
now, what am I gonna do?
I said, okay.
And so along comes
the concert day, which
actually turned out to
be my birthday anyway.
And there's three
television crews.
I remember going to the
green room right beforehand.
And I remember sitting in
there and I'm talking to
God and angels, anybody
that wants to listen.
And I said, you guys put me
through a lot to get me here.
I said, don't embarrass
us both and leave me out
there without a lot of help.
And thankfully I managed to
get through it and the music
from the dream and a couple
of other pieces that I had
written along the way and
managed to get through it.
And ever since then, it's
taken on a life of its own.
So I've played that music
all over the country.
And, it's interesting the
reactions that I get to it.
People will come up afterwards
and tell me about they see
visions or they feel certain
things and I've even had
some people ask if they could
come and lay on the floor
underneath the piano so they
can feel the vibrations of it.
Because there's something
in the music, there's
something in the frequencies
of the music that stimulates
certain brain activity
or certain behaviors.
And it's interesting.
I think there's more
to the music than I
have any concept of.
It's so far over my head.
But I do believe that there
are healing frequencies and
there are frequencies that
stimulate brain activity in
people, and it's just based
on the things that people say.
Tony, do you think that was
possibly the end game in mind?
If you consider that
we make a plan for life
before we come here.
Do you think that the fact
that the music is healing
was the ultimate intention?
I think that there's
some truth to that.
I have been searching for
an understanding of how
all this fits together
ever since it happened.
And I've literally
read hundreds of books
trying to understand.
And I think what it really
comes down to is that we
have no real concept of how
the brain works and how it's
connected to other things
and other places and, and
the frequencies that exist
in the ether or the quantum
field, as some people call it.
And how all of it interacts
and how it can help to
reprogram your brain.
And so is some of the aspect
of this music about helping
people to reprogram some
part of their brain that they
don't have access to or or
could help in their evolution?
I don't know, but I've
often wondered that.
Just going back to when your
NDE first occurred did you
start talking to your family,
did you tell your family about
what happened straight away?
I know you didn't talk to
many people, but how long was
it before you said, oh, this
is actually what occurred.
I told them pretty quickly.
But I was very selective
about anyone else.
So my family was the ones
that I told about what I
had seen and and how it all
seemed to fit together for me.
And, some people thought
I was just hallucinating.
Some people didn't
know what to think.
But I knew I was absolutely
certain of the things I saw in
the things that I experienced.
And as I had begun reading
as much as I could get my
hands on about people who've
had similar sorts of things,
there's a commonality that
people have who've had
a near death experience.
They all see very
similar things.
They experience
similar things.
There was one that
sticks out in my brain
is Pamela Reynolds.
It was a famous case and
Pam had an aneurysm in her
brain, which is a balloon
that's gonna burst and
when it does, you die.
End of story.
Unless it can be found
and have surgery.
And so she was having
headaches and she saw
her doctor, and he did
the appropriate test
and found this aneurysm.
And he sent her out to
the Barrow's Neurologic
Institute in Arizona.
Phoenix, Arizona.
And Dr.
Spetzler was the surgeon
that she saw, and he was
gonna do a new procedure
on her called standstill.
And what they would do is
they would take you into
the operating room, they
would hook you up to a
cardiac bypass machine,
put you on bypass, and then
they would drain all the
blood out of your brain.
So it was a bloodless field.
And they would do the surgery
and then they would put the
blood back in and restart
your heart and hopefully you
would wake back up again.
And this was a pioneering
procedure that she had done.
And what was interesting
was after, she lived and
after the surgery, she was
taken to the I C U, and when
she was in the I C U, she
started telling everybody
about all of the stuff that
happened to her when she
was proven clinically brain
dead and cardiac standstill.
So this woman's heart has
stopped, her brain has
been cooled to 60 degrees
and verified absolute flat
line, no electrical activity
in her brain, and yet,
she was able to tell them
exactly where all of the
equipment was set on the
tables, who was in the room.
She was able to give
conversations that the
doctors were having while
she's under anesthesia.
And then at one point she left
her body and she initially
went up and she was sitting
over Spetzler's shoulder.
And she was watching
what he was doing.
But then she said an
opening occurred up
toward the ceiling.
And so she went into the
tunnel and when she was in
the tunnel she met some of
her family who walked with
her a short ways, and then
they turned her around and
said, you have to go back.
And she said, hell no,
I'm not going back.
This is pretty nice over here.
And they somehow
managed to get her back.
And I think it was her uncle
or grandfather, I can't
remember which, who, when she
was standing at the edge of
the tunnel, pushed her out.
And that coincided with
when they started her heart.
And she had a veridical memory
of everything that happened.
The things that people
were saying in the room.
Who was in the room.
Music that was
playing in the room.
And, one of the things she
really objected to was when
Spetzler left the room,
he had the residents were
closing the wounds and
they put on music from the
Eagles: the Hotel California.
And she was very upset with
one particular line that said,
you can sign out anytime you
like, but you can never leave.
And she was very angry
about that because that
was what she experienced.
She didn't want to
go back in her body.
She wanted to go wherever
the tunnel took her.
But the fact that she was
able to be aware of the
music and the things that
were being said and the
instruments and what the
instruments sounded like.
There was an instrument
that they used in the
surgery called a Midas Rex.
It's a high speed drill that
they used to cut through bone.
It has a god awful sound.
As it cuts through bone it
really gets your attention.
But she made the sound
to a T of what it sounded
like, what it looked like.
And it's not possible to
do any of those things if
you're truly anesthetized.
And they had visual proof
that she was, because
they're recording her brain,
they're recording her heart.
She's flatlined both sl.
So you can't have your
cake and eat it too.
You can't say she must have
had light anesthesia, or she
had some way of knowing these
things, but there's no way.
It's an interesting
parallel of the things
that she experienced
and what I experienced.
I think is it Dr.
Eben Alexander?
I'm sure you've
probably read his book.
That's another good
example, and he's a
neuroscientist, right?
And he was completely
like prefrontal cortex
completely wiped out.
And he had all these memories.
You mentioned the
quantum field.
It's almost like the
information is stored
there in the quantum
field, and the brain is
really just a reducing
mechanism to, to access it.
There are a lot of
studies that are
starting to suggest that.
That memory somehow exists
in the quantum field and we
don't know how to access it.
But some people do access it
accidentally most of the time.
One of the things that
happened to me after
the lightning was I
got contacted by Darryl
Treeford, who's a physician.
And Dr.
Treeford is a specialist in
savant's and he has a whole
group of people with similar
stories to mine, but they've
all had different injuries.
They've either gotten
hit with something in the
head, they had surgery, any
number of different things,
but afterwards, they all
had developed something
they didn't have before.
And so there's enough of
people like myself and
them that make you think,
okay, there's something
normal about ability
to get those qualities.
And I think the problem
is we just don't know
how to access them.
We know we can do it
accidentally and somebody
gets hit in the head
and suddenly they can do
incredible calculations they
had no idea how to do before.
Or like myself, you hear
music and the music's
coming from someplace.
Where is it coming from
and how does it make
its way into my brain?
And again, there's a lot
of people that are starting
to believe that this memory
exists in the quantum field
and nobody really understands
what that is exactly.
And how we communicate with
it is a whole other black box.
Did you acquire any
other abilities, anything
that you would consider
to be, supernormal,
paranormal after your NDE?
Apart from the music
coming through.
Yeah, the only other thing
that did come out of it was
that I can feel people's
energy, their aura as
other people would call it.
And it feels like static
electricity out of not having
a better word to describe it.
Everybody's is different,
and if somebody has something
wrong with their shoulder,
for example I can, if I
happen to bring my hand
near their shoulder, I'll
feel this distortion of
that electrical energy.
And so if I move down
the arm, it'll disappear.
But as I get closer to
where the problem is,
I can actually bring
somebody to tears with it.
So there are some things
that I don't have an a real
understanding of, but I have
just noticed that they exist.
And I use them as tools
to help if I'm trying to
figure out what somebody's
problem is I can use that
as a way to narrow the focus
of what I'm looking at.
I've had flashes of
knowing things that I
have no way of knowing.
I'll have a feeling,
somebody's gonna call and
the phone rings, or I walk
over and I pick up the
phone and they're on it.
But those things there's no
way to quantitate any of that.
And there are enough people
that have things like
that happen anyway that
you don't know whether
it's meaningful or not.
But these are things that I
didn't really notice before.
And when you say you sense
someone's aura, is that
just a feeling, you can't
actually see anything?
I know people that can
see it but I have only on
occasion been able to do that.
Most of the time I can feel it
without any problems at all.
Seeing it, I think is harder.
At least it was for me.
One of my other guests he
had a near death experience.
He said that he became quite
empathic so he can feel what
people's emotions are like.
Have you had anything
like that as well?
Not as much.
Certainly emotions are
concentrated in people
in different ways.
So if somebody has an
enormous amount of tension
and it tends to concentrate
in their shoulders and upper
back that will cause a huge
electrical disturbance if
I put my hands near it.
There's things like
that you can pick up.
So is there anything
fundamental about the
way you view life that's
changed since your NDE?
Absolutely.
I'm absolutely certain
that there is no
such thing as death.
We change forms but our
spirit lives on forever.
Whoever we are, we always are.
And that I'm
absolutely certain of.
We keep going through this
reincarnation process.
And at least from what I
can understand the rationale
behind it is we have to reach
a certain level of evolution,
spiritual evolution, to be
able to be able to rejoin the
source from where we came.
And we just keep going
through this process till
we have enough points to
be able to do that, to
graduate from this spiritual
density to the next one.
Tony I'm starting to run
outta time here, but I wanted
to ask, people are probably
gonna have questions for you.
Is there some way for
people to reach you?
Assuming that that's
something that you're
Sure.
My email is T C I C
O R I a@yahoo.com,
tcicoria@yahoo.com, and
certainly if somebody's got
a question, feel free to ask.
All right I'll put
that in the show notes.
And do you have any other
like a final message
for people before we
wrap up the interview?
I think that the only real
message that I have is
there is life after death.
And I think it's really
important to have an
approach to life that
is, other than self, than
being more concerned about
others than about the self.
I think it's a big
part of how our spirits
are supposed to work.
I suppose if we're not
so concerned about death,
then that's a natural sort
of evolution isn't it?
That we become more
interested in what
effect we have on others.
Yeah.
Tony, thank you so much
for coming on the show.
I really appreciate
you taking the time.
I know
you're welcome.
over there, and I'm sure
that people will get a
lot out of this interview.
And I appreciate
you coming on.
Anytime.
Thank you for inviting me.