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Cory Hohs stops by The Bike Lane to talk about his work developing (and building funding for) technology to assist first responders. Safety Cloud by HAAS Alert makes roadways safer by alerting drivers to nearby hazards in real-time, but amassing funding and building the technology where none existed can be a "chicken and the egg" conundrum. This conundrum, however, was solvable; in November 2022, HAAS announced that the total number of digital alerts processed to drivers through its Safety Cloud service officially surpassed 2 billion.
Covering all things safety in and around the bike lane. The Bike Lane theme music by Daniel Sommers
Cory Hohs: The fire industry has
the saying fire service is 200 years
of tradition unimpeded by progress,
and they like to joke about that.
It's something that I
don't find to be true.
I think what they're looking for is
give me something of value and give
me something like different than
just the same thing repackaged, and
you won't find a more emphatic and
open-minded and also more challenging.
Customer and partners to have than
first responders and roadway workers,
and those folks out on the road.
Jake Sigal: Welcome to the Bike Lane.
I'm your host, Jake Sigal.
With us today is Cory Hohs, CEO,
and co-founder of HAAS Alert.
Cory is dedicated to saving lives.
He's connected transportation and
smart infrastructure solutions.
Cory co-founded HAAS Alert, the company
behind Safety Cloud, a connected safety
service for emergency and roadway.
That prevent collisions through embedded
navigation and automotive alerting.
To date, Safety Cloud has procesed more
than 1 billion driver alerts and is
trusted by nearly 2000 public and private
fleets nationwide, including police,
fire, ems, utility towing, construction,
school buses, waste and sanitation, safety
patrols, and other roadway vehicles.
They are also deployed nationwide
in Stellantis vehicles in 2018
and newer models and some of the
most recognized vehicle brands
including Chrysler, Jeep, Dodge, and.
Cory, welcome to the bike lane.
Cory Hohs: Thanks, Jake.
Excited to be here.
Quite the intro.
Jake Sigal: Yeah.
Well, it, it's, it's been a couple
months since, since we've been on.
We took a, a nice holiday break
and, uh, man, a lot has happened.
So before we get into all sorts
of interesting topics in today's
show, we're gonna cover CES, Yeah.
The Transportation Research Board.
All of the technology that's been
cooked up in labs for the last
two years that all showed up.
Uh, let, let's start out first, let,
let's talk about your background and,
and how you, you co-founded the company.
I mean, let, let's talk about
how you first got into this
role with, uh, with HAAS.
Cory Hohs: So used to work at Navtech,
which is now known as HERE Maps, um,
was there over a decade with some folks.
And the, the whole jumping off
point of the business was around, I
almost got struck and killed by an
ambulance, um, while I was working
at, uh, at HERE on my way to work.
and um, you know, we really started to
look at how we could, it was a very narrow
kind of niche, niche focus of how do we
get emergency vehicles to talk to cars?
And that that was kind of the.
part of the challenge on the technical
side at this time, it was before
connected vehicles, you know, before
where the world that has sort of come
and, and where it's going with AVs.
So it was a challenge and, uh, funny
enough in the, the first iteration of
our technology was all acoustic based,
so we were actually listening for
sirens on vehicles using mic channels,
and we had this whole microphone
on the car and, uh, we pivoted to
the technology that we use today.
I, I had to, had an opportunity to
leave Navtech and, uh, grabbed some
co-founders and said, hey, this is
a, a huge problem on the roadway,
and I think this is something that
we can go, go tackle and solve.
Um, it was supposed to only take us
two years, , so I think we had, it
was supposed to be a lot faster to
get this done, but, um, you know,
I wouldn't trade it for anything.
So it's been a, been a great, you
know, great few years as, as we've
looked to tackle this problem of, um,
what once was just looked at as how
do we get emergency vehicles to talk
to cars, and then ultimately helping
solve a, a bigger safety problem.
For all of V2X.
When we think about connected roadways,
Jake Sigal: love the, love the story
on that, and I could tell you for all
of the guests that we've had in on
the, on the show, One thing that's
very unique is, uh, a personal story.
Whether it was it was the individual
or, or someone very close to them.
And, um, that passion shows up.
And whether it's from the, our automotive
friends or our, our V2X people, the
ITS people, like everybody's got that.
That same shared mission
of safer roadways.
And I mean, that's why I
do what I do as, as a, as a
passionate cyclist, and I get it.
And the, the more we, we, we talk to
people, it does feel like it's a, it's a
common bond across business conversations
that even we get heated debates on.
Um, at the time it was DSRC for
C2X, which is now, thankfully.
Yeah.
And we'll talk about that.
We're gonna hold that point to, to
the CES discussion, but thankfully
we've got a resolution there.
But, um, the, the passion's there
and, uh, so Cory, you and I met.
Techstars and I was like one
of the, the few people in that
organization that was from Detroit
and had had an X in automotive.
But I mean, you guys were like
the, the gem of, of the class.
I mean great companies obviously there,
but when Ted Serbinski started that,
that group up when and Ford Motor
called me and said, Hey, we're doing,
uh, Techstars and Mobility Detroit.
Uh, which by the way feels
like it was 20 years ago.
What, what was your experience like
starting your business and, and
finding your groove in Detroit?
Cuz like, you guys are, you
guys are from Chicago, right?
So, I mean, you're not that far away,
but man, it's a totally different
world coming into the motor city.
Cory Hohs: Yeah, absolutely.
Actually.
So, so Ted rejected us the
first time for Techstars.
He said, you're not far enough along,
and this is a very hard problem to solve.
But actually what he told us is he said,
you know, get, get a little more traction.
Um, and find, you know, there,
there's an agency in Michigan.
or a firm in Michigan that I'd love to
introduce you to, cuz it sounds like you
have hardware and it's called Seamless.
And so we actually went and worked
with a group of Seamless that
actually helped us develop our
very first IOT connected device.
And then we wound up.
Applying into Techstars and
getting in, which was, you know,
an incredible opportunity for us.
And actually my co-founder
had just had a, a baby.
And then we found out we got
into Techstars and had to spend
a bunch of time in Detroit.
So, you know, as, as will happen
starting a business, things come,
you know, from all, all sides.
What's, what's great about
coming to Detroit from Chicago,
having a, a business focused on
automotive, was you, you felt . Way.
At, you know, I'll say at home, but
you felt way more just surrounded by
like colleagues and you felt way more
surrounded by folks that think they,
you know, are trying to solve the same
problems that, you know, think like you,
that a lot more, it, it's easy to find
some, to find yourself in a conversation
about the future of automotive.
Just, you know, with, with, uh, various
businesses that you may be meeting with.
Where in Chicago, you know, obviously
it's not the center of automotive.
Um, so it, it's, it, it was, it was really
enlightening and I felt much, we felt
much more comfortable, uh, landing in
Detroit and, you know, we're still today.
I mean, I know, um, you know,
how many years ago that was.
But, uh, really grateful we
had the opportunity to, to
really get our, our feet.
In, um, in Techstars, uh, and
especially in the Motor City.
It was, it was, it was really
awesome and, and really helped pave
the way for where we are today.
And, and if, if I remember
the timing, we were sort of
in the fits of DSRC back then.
So even, even with all of that
engineering and policy and all the
stuff that was going on for, for
Techstars to say, despite all of that
and seeming like this problem may be.
, there's a company that wants to solve
it in a different way, and we're
gonna bring 'em into this program
and let's see what they can do.
So I thought, you know, going out
on a ledge and, and, you know,
taking that, that, that risk.
Um, and especially with . The
automotive manufacturers that were.
, um, part of that cohort that, that had to
interview us to even get in the program.
Everybody, you know, to me was a
message that we're still teetering
on some other opportunities.
So I was glad we were able to get in.
Jake Sigal: Yeah, bringing
disruption in was, was fantastic.
And, um, you know, I can't say
enough about Ford's support for
continued innovation and um, like
just the experience that, that I had.
Going through that ranging from
partnership and the acquisition process
in 2013, and then seeing a, a more,
more, um, set process for, uh, that
approach for bringing startups into
the automotive and mobility ecosystem.
So, uh, fundraising, so
you guys are VC backed.
Um, quick plug.
Uh, I totally small world, but one of my.
Best friends and mentors, Bob Struble at,
at Blue Ventures, uh, is in the business.
And, and, um, you know, I was
talking to him about a, a company
I met at Techstars, and, uh, he's
like, oh yeah, you know, Cory.
I'm like, yeah, this, this is fantastic.
And you know, I just, it
just kind of shows the, the.
Small world we live in.
So like with the, with the VC process,
uh, how did you find that, uh,
working in the, the space you're in?
I mean, clear is disruption,
but it is complicated.
So like, like what, how did
you guys work through that?
And you guys have clearly like, took
off like a rocket ship at this point,
but, you know, not too, too long ago.
I'm sure it feels like forever go
for you as well, but like you were
going through that, that process.
So how, how did that go for you?
Cory Hohs: I, I mean, look, founders
were always raising, so I've, I
wouldn't say it's, we're definitely
not out of the weeds yet, but, um,
you know, we're well on our way.
You know, the fundraising process, um,
you know, it, it's, it's a slog like
everybody says, but it also really
helps you refine what you're building.
Cause you hear so many, you know, I don't
think for folks that aren't out pitching
investors all day, I mean the, the sheer
volume of investors that you wind up
pitching, you know, you read the stuff on
Tech Crunch and it sounds like, you know,
they make the article sound like, oh,
some, the, the entrepreneur went out, made
a couple pitches and landed 10 million.
It's not typically the, the normal story.
It.
, um, tens if not, you know, over a
hundred investors that you're pitching,
finding those that truly believe
in, in the mission and the vision
and what and what you're building.
It's, uh, you know, some of the
investors that you hear know of in
the, the early days for first check
Wind up becoming some of your biggest
investors or supporters later on.
And you, you know, once somebody
invests, I mean, obviously they believe
in what you're doing, but you know,
you're, you're with them for years.
Years.
And so they're along, you know, coming
along with you, helping solve problems,
helping clear the path, helping you get
in the rooms that would be harder for
you to get into and finding somebody.
You know, blue Ventures with,
with Bob Struble was one of
our, our first investors.
And, you know, the support along the way.
Um, They're not located in Detroit, but,
but they're just belief in the mission
and the vision and, and seeing this
huge problem that needed to be tackled.
Um, you know, and, and for once they're,
once they've, they've, they've placed that
bet on you, you know, . They're there ups
and downs, no matter how bad things get.
I mean, the, even, you know,
obviously everybody going through
covid, you know, really showing.
The, the commitment that, um, investors
had to show to their companies on, on how
they could help, not just financially,
but even just the support of all sorts
of things that were, you know, obviously
burning to the ground at that time.
So, um, it, it's a slog, but it's, it's
like when you get an investor and they're
so excited about what you're doing and
they're so excited about what you're
building, there's no better partner to.
To the good times and the bad
times because they, they're,
they're just part of the business.
I mean, they're just part of you and
they're, they're excited for your wins.
Their losses suck.
But then it's like, all right,
well let's, what do we do next?
And they really become sort of
this, you know, attachment to, to
not just you and the company, but
you know, all, all your employees.
So, Um, and we try to keep a close
relationship between our investors,
our advisors, our board, um, with the
business and, and folks in in our company.
We like people to meet the, the team.
And, um, all of that helps to, to
really get everybody on the same side
of the table pushing towards that common
vision where you don't have people
going off in different directions.
Jake Sigal: Yeah, it's, uh, it's very
consistent amongst other sucCESsful
entrepreneurs that, that we know
about, um, those relationships
and, and those partnerships.
So, um, you know, and now.
Gone through two of these myself, like I,
I could tell you that it, it's, um, it,
it just, it's all about the relationships
and putting people ahead of money and, um,
and that, and you know, the irony with,
with both of our businesses is that we
put people ahead of money in the boardroom
as well as, uh, out on the roads.
So like, when it comes to like, our
mission for, for products, let's
talk about safety for a little bit.
So , HAAS has been leading the way, uh,
on the topic for first responder safety,
but I, I find it even more interesting.
People that go to your website and
when you talk to customers, it's,
you know, you're talking about
like all these, I mean, you school
buses, you know, like, like safety
patrols, like all these different
groups that are, are passing alerts.
But, but you've also led the way
from a technology perspective with
Vita X messages and doing that.
Over LTE.
So how have you leveraged LTE
to get your service to billions?
When I, when I first saw
this, I was like, billions.
I was like, wow.
That's, that's a lot of messages.
That might be more messages than
any other, like the aggregate of
all other DSRC and C-V2X combined.
And obviously there's, there's new
technologies coming and we're gonna see
that, that proliferate, but like you
guys hit billions of messages sent and,
and like how did you get to that point
and like of the tech perspective of.
Switching a conversation for
15 years on DSRC to, Hey guys.
Like LTE works.
So like how did you guys go about that?
Cory Hohs: Look, we're we're
really technology agnostic and,
and you know, looking back it's
always easier to look back, right?
The, the folks that, that paved the way
for how vehicles will communicate was,
was critically important because it
opened up the industry, the conversation
and put a framework around how we
think about, uh, how our transportation
network needs to communicate.
So, um, you know, it's not, we
didn't never saw ourselves so much.
Pitted against DSRC, but it was
because we weren't coming to solve this
problem from a standard standpoint.
We weren't trying to ram everybody's
like our standard, kind of
ram it on everyone's throat.
We weren't trying to force car
manufacturers to do something.
We weren't trying to get the federal
government to require our very
specific proprietary technology.
We came at it from, I'm on
the ground riding in a fire.
and the, the chief is telling me
that two weeks ago they had one of
their firefighters struck and kill.
That, that's the side that
we're coming at it from.
So we don't necessarily care how the,
how that message got delivered, but at
the time we said if we're gonna solve
the problem, we have to solve the problem
of those that were, we're trying to
solve the problem for, which is those
that are most vulnerable on the road.
And that is the first responders,
utility, towing, work zone, construction,
you know, all the folks that we find.
And what's amazing about it is those
folks are in every community , whether
you're rural, suburban, big city,
everybody has construction, everybody
has first responders, everybody has
school buses and utility companies.
So like this is, this is a problem that
exists across the country and globally.
But because we were coming at it from
their side of the table and hearing
their voice of Just help me get
something besides using lights and siren.
To tell drivers to move over, tell drivers
that I'm there, that that was, and coming
at it from a safety company and not from
a technology lens first, that allowed
us to say, okay, who cares if it's LTE?
And then you look into the BSM
you, you look into safety messages
that are available technically.
We say, okay, LTE can't solve all
of the safety messages because
some require 10th of a second.
Some require much lower latency.
If we can take two seconds or
less, we can process a lot of
messages to hit a car in time.
Especially if we can notify a driver, say
20 seconds ahead before they're gonna see
a, a first responder on the side of the
road, or a work zone that's coming up.
Two seconds is plenty of time.
And so as we started to deploy with
first responders as, as our first
initial customer, you know, and then
we started notifying drivers within
navigation apps, um, WAZE Apple Maps,
like, then it became, oh, , this works.
It's like there's plenty of time,
there's plenty of notification.
We have to do some tricky stuff
in the cloud to make that happen.
But, um, we were able to use LTE and so
y you know, we've, we've never, we're
not anti CV two X 5.9, we're never, we're
never like anti DSRC was more what can
we do today to solve this problem for
these folks that are asking for solutions
and quite frankly, literally clamor.
For, for two decades for something besides
lights and sirens because their death rate
continues to climb cuz they're struck and
killed every single year out on the roads.
So it became a, and even for the
standards, um, bodies, you know,
when we tried to join some of the,
the standards committees that, that.
Deal with some of these safety messages
because we were using LTE, I'm not saying
we're not allowed, they're open, open
groups, but it was very much frowned
upon because we were using LTE, um, to
try to do anything on the standard side.
So that's why we sort of, uh, you
know, a few years ago just sort
of went back and said, all right,
well, why don't we just focus on,
you know, continue focusing on the.
Continue focusing on those that we're,
we're protecting on in the roadway and
everything else will work itself out
over time, and let's not try to force
any sort of mandates and let's not try to
force particular proprietary silo tech.
Instead, let's continue with
this two-sided marketplace.
We build focus on those
that are broadcasting and.
Get those agencies to broadcast
themself in the roadway.
And then we knew that if we had.
That we would eventually find first
partners within the automotive site to
start accepting those safety messages.
Jake Sigal: I love the, the, the
concept, and it's something that,
that we share, uh, from, uh, Tom
now VaLTEch with, with HAAS about
giving the customer what they want.
And I, I, I gotta give a quick plug.
Uh, when I was a young professional, uh,
at, at CES, I think I've done my 19th
CES couple weeks ago, , uh, I was on, uh,
uh, I wanna say it was, The, one of the
dinners that we have, and Joe Clayton,
uh, formerly CEO of Dish Networks and,
uh, CEA Hall of Famer gets on stage and
talks about, uh, give the customer what
they want, is like his primary mantra.
And it always stuck with me and like
that in that way that, that Joe and
anyone that knows him as just is so
flamboyant and amazing individual.
And, uh, I, I always took this as like,
as a tech guy, it's tough because.
. I love the tech and I always think of like
what the, what can the tech do for me?
But in business we have to
stay focused on passion for the
problems, not being technology,
looking for a problem to solve.
And the primary disruption that we had at
home when we started looking at Bluetooth
was for the same reasons, Cory, that, that
you guys had, and that's something that we
shared together, is it was like, I get it.
Like, you know, we want to have 5.9,
we want to have all these latest and
greatest technology pieCES, but at the
end of the day, if it's not gonna be
in somebody's pocket, or affordable and
power, low power to put on a, a bicycle
or scooter in, in our example when we
were working on this five years ago,
it's just not gonna be on the road.
So, like, we need these intermediary
technologies that we can
leverage that to your point's.
Not gonna solve every problem
everybody wants, but I, I just
was not down with waiting.
Seven years for something that might
happen and then it wouldn't be inclusive.
And for us, like we need to make sure that
whatever we're putting on the roadways and
I, this was way before the infrastructure
bill was even a thought is like, you gotta
make sure we're inclusive and acCESsible
for, for all communities and all people.
And, and it just, I felt like
a lot of the driving force was
coming from specific technology.
, um, divisions within companies
that were looking to push it.
And it just like, I feel like the, the
point was kinda lost along the way.
So with, within LTE I think that
like, now that you've done it and
it, and you've, you have billions
of messages that are out there like.
You, you got Stellantis, you
know, you guys are, are in all
these cars across North America.
Has the, has the narrative
changed a little bit?
I mean, I can tell you, at least
from our side, from Bluetooth, it's
like we had to push out so many white
papers and kind of show that yes,
we, or you're committed in our new
hardware development kit at, at tome.
Uh, which you guys are obviously
a part of it with HAAS as well.
It's got, uh, Bluetooth, C-V2X, and LTE.
Cuz we're, we kind of wanna
say, look, we, we want to be
the Swiss when it comes to tech.
Like we're, we're not picking sides here.
But, um, like with specifically that LTE
point is like, have you seen that lift
is like now that like maybe Stellantis
was the first one through the wall and
now you've got the, the, you got the
system running that people are now more
open to, uh, um, moving off the position
that it has to be a, a certain tech
in order to be, uh, production ready?
Cory Hohs: Definitely.
I mean, at CES this year, I mean, so.
conversation and, and discussion
and demonstrations using LTE.
Um, you, you know, people, I, I think
the, the, it's not just the tech
showing that the great work that we've
done, um, you know, in partnership
with Stellantis, bringing them, being
able to bring this out and from 20,
you know, vehicles starting in 2018.
being able to push this out.
One of the biggest incentives and,
and kind of validation points isn't
just that detect works and that the
messages are displaying and drivers
are getting the notifications, but
there's, when we think about the
end customer to automotive, right?
It's you and I who are buying the car
on the lot, and so what's happening is
now there's, there's Facebook groups
and there's organic conversation that's
happening in blogs where drivers of these
vehicles are posting the screenshot going.
I just got this message about an
emergency vehicle and they passed by.
This just started showing up.
This is awesome.
Did anyone else get this?
Is this something that just comes in
the vehicle because all of a sudden
overnight their vehicle was, was, had
got this functionality and all of a
sudden this had this connected safety.
Is now displaying in the vehicle.
So it's not just us taking the technology
and getting it integrated with a company
like Stellantis, but then Stellantis
is having the time to say, well, what
are our drivers saying about this?
And what is that end use case and
what, how do we keep listening to
the driver and understanding like,
is this beneficial to them or not?
So I think it's, yes, the realization
from the tech side to say, wow,
for these use cases, LTE is plenty.
and we can go solve these
problems right now today.
Cause almost every major car manufacturer
has cellular in their, in their systems
and at least up to a certain year.
And we can deploy this
technology right now.
And by the way, there's positive feedback
from those that that are actually driving
these vehicles, receiving these alerts.
And the best thing about it is that
those first responders that five years
ago, and those road way workers and
the construction and the utility and you
know, for your groups that leaning on
the bicycle, on the bikes and the VRUs,
they're seeing all that work that they
did and the belief and the mission that
they had to believe in that if we just
start broadcasting, we will be able to
get this information in those drivers.
The, the, the one of the
coolest things and uh, pieCES
of feedback we've got is it was.
A fire chief that was driving his Dodge
truck and got that notification on his
head unit for a tow truck from some
other community that he was passing.
And it was sort of like, you
know, I saw the, I saw the email
that came in and it was like all.
It was like all three
worlds just collided.
And it was like, yes, this is, this is
the ecosystem that has been brought.
We have those broadcasting, we
have the end driver as a consumer
getting the message and we have
the vehicle system displaying.
And it was like what we've been
working so hard for, and I know lots
in the safety and transportation
industry have been trying to do is
get these messages into vehicles
and you know, it's just from, from.
All, all of these things clicking together
was like, it all finally hit and like
super, super exciting times this year
that, you know, the kickoff the year
with something like that is, um, you
know, it's pretty extraordinary I think
for not just our company, but all of us
working in this roadway safety space.
Jake Sigal: I love that story.
And um, for every entrepreneur and
product manager that's listening to
this, they, they know that feeling.
You get that warm feeling when
you get that email and you know,
you hit product market fit.
And in our case, and, and for most
of, uh, our audience, We help somebody
stay safe and, and that's, that's what
just gives me goosebumps and why I get
up in the morning and do what I do.
Um, so, uh, as you're talking about like
this year, I, you know, we're, we're two
weeks into it and it feels like everyone's
been in the bunker the last two and a
half years cooking up innovation, at least
for those of us that I've been dealing
with supply chain issues and in Detroit.
So, um, thank you for all of you that
have been keeping the parts rolling.
We, we would not be able to do what we do.
Thank you so much.
So Cory, you and I were
at CES and oh my gosh.
Just, uh, for those of you that, that
aren't aware that the consumer or formally
know as the consumer electronic show
has expanded quite a bit to tech and
automotive's been a strong presence at
the show, uh, transcending to Las Vegas
every January for about the past 15 years.
In fact, uh, Ford launched was the first
company to launch a car in CES, and
ever since that happened, boom, like
every year there's been CES, keynotes
from auto execs and other vehicles.
Caterpillar truck that made me
feel like a seven year old boy.
I mean, I immediately went
to seven year old Jake mode.
That and the Optimus Prime Robot.
I, I saw it.
Like, I, I was like, oh my God.
Like I, it, it made me feel
so good to see everybody back.
And, and I'm proud to say we
had over 118,000 attendees.
So back and COVESA the big
automotive event, which many
of our listeners were at.
Uh, I mean, we were three deep at
the, the Tome slash Valtech booth
and, and showing off our, our Android
work and, and just, just massive.
So.
I mean, Cory, you were like, I,
you were 20 feet away from me and
I don't even think we saw each
other during the COVESA show.
Like I think we just, like, I saw you when
you were doing setup and then I was like
telling people how to get to your booth,
but there were so many people there, they
couldn't even see the car because, and we
were only like maybe 30, maybe 30 yards,
but let's, like it was very close by.
People were like, okay.
I we're like sending people back
and forth and a safety thing.
So what was the vibe and
trend that you got to CES?
Cory Hohs: One thing to touch on COVESA.
I mean that we love that.
You know, it bring, it's good to see,
you know, colleagues and industry folks.
Uh, we had the Stellantis Jeep
on the floor, and, and there's
nothing more powerful than seeing
the, you know, Stellantis Jeep on
the floor, getting somebody in the
seat, having the, you know, being
able to experience the notification.
And then, um, the work that we did
with you all on, um, AOSP, being able
to demonstrate that functionality
and just, available and, and
quickly this type of technology
can get integrated into vehicles.
Um, COVESA does an awesome job of
bringing those folks together, um,
into that, into that single room.
And I know it's like, it's one of
the events like we, we always love
at CES then, you know, as, as, as far
as, you know, what we saw at CES, you
know, there was tons I felt like of.
Yes.
Connectivity obviously, but a lot more.
I, I felt like I saw, maybe it
was just cuz I didn't, I didn't
make, get to every single boost.
But really using connectivity
and practical means.
You know, I felt like there was
a lot more connected devices that
were, uh, especially on the, on the
auto side, where folks were using
LTE as examples of functionality.
Now, there were some things, you
know, around ordering things in the
car and, you know, you, you name it
at CES, it's, it's gonna be there.
. But, um, you know, it was nice to
see that there was really, you know,
more, more practical connected device
technology out there showing value, safety
versus, um, things that are, you know,
we may only see in the next 20 years.
I felt like it's, it's kind of coming
a little bit closer that these kind
of technologies are within reach.
Jake Sigal: Yeah, the, I, I heard
that consistently and, uh, I'm,
we're on a, a board and with, uh,
going back to Bob Struble , also
on the board of industry Leaders.
Yeah.
Um, every year we, we talk, uh, as a group
about what we saw, and that was very, very
consistent amongst different channels,
including, uh, medical devices and now,
uh, or the, or health wearables, what they
call it, but like the, like hearing aids.
Uh, just, and I'm, the reason I'm
gonna bring this up is like for
context is, is now hearing aids are
an over the counter available product
and, and things that years ago CES
was about like the future and it.
It was like watching back to the future
too, like whenever that came out, and
like, we're gonna have hoverboards and all
this and this CES felt a lot different.
And especially getting back to the new
West Hall where the automotive, um,
groups were all, all located is, it
wasn't, it was really like here and now.
It wasn't this like, Fairytale Slideware.
Yeah.
World of like in, or what sometimes
we call innovation theater.
I'm throwing all the
buzzword I can for this.
It just really felt like,
Hey, this is my api.
Here's what's going on.
We got this thing running here.
We got ao, Android, um, running here.
AOSP like that was a, a strong
trend at CES was like, this
is what's actually coming.
We're tired of talking about stuff.
We're, we're ready to get back
to, to building and deploying.
Cory Hohs: Yeah.
The best, you know, going back to.
The, the event at COVESA, the, the, the,
I loved when people would sit inside
that, um, Stellantis Jeep and say, oh,
so when is this gonna be available?
It's my favorite question, you know,
it's like, it's available, it's already
out there, it's already deployed,
it's already in vehicle, you know,
that's, um, and, and it's usually
this, this kind of shock factor.
Um, , you know, that people have.
So
Jake Sigal: yeah, we, uh, we had a nice
article, uh, in the Detroit News, and I
got the same question from Detroit News.
It's like, you know, so, okay,
when is this gonna be shipping?
It's like, no, no,
it's, it's Ben shipping.
Like what?
Like, yeah, this is,
this is, this is real.
Cory Hohs: Well, yeah.
And, and, and, you know, um, one,
one thing I I I left out that I wanna
make sure I bring up the automotive
side is, is obviously critical to
receive the alerts, but, uh, a lot of
folks don't know that on the fleet.
you know, when you think of um, uh,
emergency vehicles and waste and
sanitation and those kind of vehicles,
they've actually been putting LTE
broadcast technology on their vehicle
standard from the factory for the last
like three years connected trash trucks.
So, yeah, no, yeah, no joke.
Like they've been taken.
Cause there's a, uh,
unfortunate, you know, number of.
Waste and sanitation workers that get hit.
Mm-hmm.
walking behind the trucks, but they,
you know, over, you know, close to 90,
over 90% of, of say firetrucks, um, out
there actually come standard from the
factory already broadcasting messages.
There's m s vehicles that come
from the factory, waste, sanitation
and others, uh, construction.
Mm-hmm.
Your hard, actually, the
construction industry was pretty
far ahead of broadcasting out
messages and notifications before
other industries about what's
happening actually on the road.
, um, you know, I know a lot of those
folks, uh, you guys had an awesome, uh,
demonstration at, at your booth with
some of the, um, construction mm-hmm.
PSS opportunities to broadcast Yep.
With PSS and, uh, you know, I, I'd like
to see a lot more of that at CES because
those folks actually began, , you know, if
I think about how do we get roadside units
deployed, like those folks are really the
ones that said, Hey, we're gonna start
putting onboard units and RSU out there.
Not the way that we think of them in the
sort of ITS Transportation World, but
essentially that's what they were doing by
adding this connectivity and broadcasting
out in equipment on the roads mm-hmm.
and, and fleet vehicles
to broadcast themselves.
So it, it.
, both of those worlds.
But, um, you know, I'm walking around
CES, I'm like, God, I really want
to get some of our fire departments
and, and, uh, utility companies and,
and folks that were deployed in to
be on the floor at CES next year.
I think that'd be an awesome showing.
Jake Sigal: Yeah, I, I would, uh, add
that I, going back to that comment I
made about the seven year old version
of myself seeing that giant CAT truck,
I mean, the tires were double -double.
My height, which isn.
Pretty short, but it, it, it, when I
went in there and there's like a, a
giant screen, um, that you stand and
look at, and I'm expecting this usual,
like kind of whatever, interactive.
And it turned out it was a V R U safety
application and I, I was speaking to a
product manager at CAT about this and.
Like, I was like so impressed
that like worker safety was a
big part of what they're doing.
And, and you mentioned,
I wanna go back to this.
This is a really important point, is
that in order for HAAS Alert to have
Safety Cloud with value, and you're
going and talking to Stellantis and other
vehicle, uh, passenger vehicle companies.
You did the hardest thing in the
world as a startup, and I don't know
if our listeners really appreciate
this, and I was telling you before the
show, Cory, we're talking about this
in the green room that I don't think
anybody that I know in safety has
actually done this before you built.
A two-sided business model.
The chicken and egg, the hardest thing,
the video game model where you know no
one's gonna buy the console, there's
no games, no one's gonna invest in
games, that there's no users on console.
And you did that.
You did that across a
number of these types of.
Uh, vulnerable road users that are, are,
are going and, and you also had to do
this with folks that typically aren't
known for their technical savviness.
So like, speak, I mean,
I, I could only imagine.
I mean, some of them, the, I
mean, I have the utmost respect
for our first responders.
They do, they make, I mean, they,
they have the hardest job in the
world between them and teachers.
That's, I always say that it's the,
it's the absolute hardest thing
to do and trying to ask somebody
whose job is to keep people safe to.
Get up to date on technology that
might be coming down the pipe and
then convincing someone to deploy
said technology, uh, on them.
I mean, we're not talking about
a helmet or for a firefighter.
We're not talking about, um, uh,
like, like a, these are like active
technology products and you did that.
So first thank you.
That's incredibly hard.
And, and now that you have both
sides and you're growing automotive
distributions, You've accelerated so
much on the, the automotive front.
I mean, how has this, now that you've
left the other side of the two-sided,
um, business model, how has this helped
accelerate the conversation with,
uh, new, uh, municipalities and, and
groups on the first responder side?
Cory Hohs: It's difficult.
I w I wish it was easier.
Like I said, we started, I thought
this was gonna take two years and
we'd be off and off and running
and it's a difficult problem.
When we first entered the space looking
at fire, and by the way, our first
city was Grand Rapids Fire Department,
so that was our very first customer.
Their chief was incredibly innovative,
and when we walked in the door, we
explained what we're working on.
and said, you know, could we
install this on your vehicle?
It's like, yeah, do whatever you want.
Grab the fleet manager
and said, here you go.
You wanna join us for lunch?
We're gonna eat in 20 minutes.
Yeah.
So, um, you know, the, the fire
industry has this saying, and the
saying is, fire service is 200 years
of tradition unimpeded by progress.
And they like to joke about that.
Um, but it's, it's something
that I don't find to be.
I think what they're looking for is
give me something of value and give
me something like different than just
the same thing repackaged and you
won't find a more like emphatic and
open-minded and also more challenging,
uh, customer and partners to have than
first responders and roadway workers
and those folks out on the road because.
Their, their day is so tangible.
It's like the house is on fire.
We are going in to put it out, like, help
me do whatever I need to do to do that.
So I saved, you know, saved the people
that were, that were going out to save,
that my crew gets back at the end of
the day and our trucks are ready to go
for the next shift that's gonna start.
And like, tho that's just how they think.
And so, um, yeah, convincing
the first was difficult.
The second was harder.
The third, um, it was
incredibly important that.
actually said, you know what, even
though we're crowdsourced, we'll we'll
work with you on, on getting this
critical information into our map.
Um, so like without them, I mean,
really there, there wasn't the
other side of the market mm-hmm.
So, you know, kudos to the work that
they, they've done and that they
continue to do for first responders
and, and activities on the road.
But, um, yeah, it was,
it was incredibly hard.
But, you know, they, the
biggest death and injury.
For first responders to combined, uh,
roadway workers, utility towing, uh,
school buses, it's getting hit by cars.
So you're not convincing them.
Right.
And we're not talking to them about
V2X and its, and innovation and
data and all the, nobody cares.
What they care about is I need to get home
at the end of the day and I don't want my
folks getting struck on the side of the.
So once, like you're all in
agreement on that fact, then it's
just, well, how do we deliver it?
And so yeah, it took a lot of belief.
They had to believe in the mission.
They had to believe in like the,
the vision that that, that we had.
Um, and you think SAE is hard to work
with or, or trying to get standards
for those of you that have created
Same, go try to change the standards
in, uh, fleet for, um, for the
fleet industry and first responders.
It is a whole different ballgame.
And they have their own
standards and their own
protections and their own groups.
Um, you know, so.
, it's, uh, you know, it's not just, you
know, if you're all in, you're all in.
So it had to be from not just
talking to the departments, but then
understanding what are the challenges that
manufacturers have of emergency vehicles?
What are the challenges those
standards bodies have, and like,
why hasn't this been a thing
and understanding their world.
And so we always, you know, we,
we always try to at things from
that person's side of the table.
not sort of in a confrontational way.
It's like we're all trying to solve the
same problem, uh, which still doesn't
make a two-sided market any easier.
You know, without having those early
adopters and those folks, you know, uh,
believing in the beginning from the, the
small departments, medium departments,
big departments to the standards bodies,
to everybody really, you know, all
of us having the same mission of, of
protecting those out on the roadway.
Yeah.
We wouldn't be where
we, where we are today.
So in incredibly grateful that they
were open-minded, uh, enough and,
uh, despite not necessarily being the
first ones to jump at new technology.
We've had enough of this.
We're sick and tired of this happening,
and if somebody can come to us with a
solution, we're gonna be open-minded
and, and, and give it a shot.
And, and in this case, it, it worked out.
Jake Sigal: Let's stay on
that topic on standards.
So, uh, and we will put all these in
the show notes and, um, most of our
listeners are, are, uh, that are at
least coming from the, the bike lane.
You know, my world is, uh, they're
familiar with the basic safety message,
the personal safety message, and.
they probably, you know, are familiar
with some of the, the Android standards
of like application development in cars.
But what are the standards
that you guys are watching?
I mean, and I also wanna make sure
we plug the work zone as well.
But, but what, what, what's your list?
What's, what's the, what's the
query slash HAAS alert list of
standards that are being watched?
Cory Hohs: I mean, we look
at standards within NTEA.
, there's a lot of sub, you know,
standard groups under NTA as a whole.
Um, that's important to us for fleet,
um, across EMS and all sorts of agencies.
Um, for EMS, you have, um, lots of
different standards and specs that, that
they follow, like Triple K, and there's
about four or five different standards
just for the, in industry of EMS, which
actually that is even more complicated as
far as standards within or NFPA for fire.
Isn't criti critically important?
If you're looking to.
bring technology into the fire space.
There's a lot of committees that
that one should get involved with.
I'm happy to talk to anybody.
I'm always trying to get more people into
NFPA committees, so if you're interested,
please, please reach out to me.
Uh, yes, there's WZDx for construction.
Um, but for us with the BSM is,
is really, um, you know, [SAE]
2945 is something we look at.
We have a good back and forth, I
think with some of the committees
on basic safety messages.
Mm-hmm.
, um, because they were developed at a time.
where they were being developed
for, um, you know, for DSRC.
And then we sort of evolved into
the, how the tech is delivered.
Jake Sigal: Cory, real quick, I
want to throw in that they were also
developed for four-wheeled vehicles
that behave like four wheeled vehicles.
And, um, with a message coming off
a firetruck that's a four or maybe
more than four wheeled vehicle.
That's a, but, um, it, it's like that
the dynamics of that object moving
and the, the deceleration rates,
acceleration rates, turning radio.
What lanes they're in, are they on
the sidewalk, bike lane, et cetera.
Those are, that's what the designs
were for and, and, and kudos.
By the way, the team at Crash avoids
metrics partnership CAMP and the
ITS JPO team and yeah, I mean,
they paved, literally paved the way
for this, paved the way, but, but
they're, but we've got humans on
side of roadways working or helping.
Uh, disabled motorists.
Sometimes on the side of the road,
sometimes in the middle of the road.
We've got humans riding
bicycles that don't have
airbags and crash crumple zones.
We've got humans that are in the work
zone that, you know, no one really knows
when they come around a corner, whether
there's actually workers present or not.
So like we have these, these
other use cases that were.
. Um, they were, they were designed for
to give credit, but they were never
tested for the performance requirements.
So, um, I I wanted to just
put a quick plug in there.
Is that, yeah.
Like that, it, it, it's, it's out
there, but, but we're out at a point
in time or we need more of this.
So and, you're, you're talking about that
cross reference, so, uh, regarding like
the SE standards and, um, I, I think the.
Like we, we feel the same way.
It's like there's, like, we have
a lot of respect for where they
came from, but there's a lot of
work left to go and we're ready to
roll up our sleeves and get to it.
And I, I know you guys have
taken a similar approach.
Cory Hohs: Yeah.
And, and again, it's, if you're trying
to build a business, starting with a
standard, it's tough because then you're,
you're, who's your, who's your customer?
You know, it's like, who,
who's we getting the valley?
So I think it's the, what's happening
now is the, I think one of the
perfect ways for this to happen
is all of these technologies are.
Solving these use cases and now
bringing them to these standards
committees and saying, Hey.
, now that this stuff is deployed, how do
we better align with the work that you do
as experts within standards committees?
I'm not by no means an expert in, in,
uh, you know, standards, but now what,
what can we do to help, like, create
the standard to modify the standard
Or what, what can we do now that
all these agencies are broadcasting?
Like, how, how can we help in your
mission to make sure that that industry.
So that it has a clearer path to market
and makes it easier and safer for
these kind of technologies to roll out.
So, um, yeah, I think it's
a, a healthy push and pull.
That's why, you know, I
think hate's a strong word.
It's like push and pull
of what, what can we do?
And I think once something is deployed
and then you're, then, then you kind
of say, okay, how do we, how do we
sort of reframe this and this is
what's happening, you know, quite
frankly in construction, right?
Construction's and
broadcasting out messages.
Work zones and arrow board notifications
and all this kind of stuff for a while.
And now WZDx comes, I think there's been
some twists and turns there as well.
But, um, you know, I think
that's the best way to do it
because now it's, it's proven.
It's out there, it's being used.
You're learning the use cases
of what data's important,
what data isn't important.
How the quality of the data, you know,
how does it have to be formatted?
What kind of attribution, and then
you're having a conversation about,
about standards versus, you know,
trying to do the reverse, which.
Always a really tough thing to
do when you're dealing with, um,
you know, a private enterprise.
Jake Sigal: I think that that's a good
example to kind of continue that, that,
that line with the, um, WZDx and um,
uh, that's the work zone data exchange.
And, and again, kind back to like the,
the T R B meetings, uh, Technical, uh,
Research Board meetings, and, yeah.
, um, transportation research
group meetings in, in DC.
So WZDx is a good example of, and
there's still a lot of work to be done
there, but it is a federal standard
that every state is gonna be adopting.
And now that we have federal grants are,
are we gonna see more consistency from
the various, uh, cities, RT, regional
transit authorities and, and like areas
like that now that like we, we can't.
as a tech company, we can't have 50 or
50 plus solutions in, in the US plus
whatever solution in Europe we like.
How, how is this aligning with
standards, aligning with federal
grants, uh, uh, surrounding the,
the infrastructure bill and, and
Cory Hohs: other topics?
You know, it definitely helps,
but it still requires, you
know, state dots and others to.
Those, um, those standards.
And look, if it's not in a bi, you know,
for construction very specifically,
if it's not in a bid spec, the, the
subcontractors and the construction,
they're not gonna put it in.
I mean, there's no, there's
not a lot of incentive.
Um, if, if there is incentive
and it can make its way down to
those that are actually in the
work zones, um, then you're gonna
start seeing the stuff show up.
So they ha that that's a
chicken and egg problem as well.
Um, you can't just set up the standard.
temporarily fund it through grants
and say, okay, you know, we're done.
You gotta use r and d grant money to get
something into out there on the road.
But then somebody has to take it,
private company has to take it
and companies and then say, okay,
now we're gonna commercialize a
productionize and get it out there.
But use that grant funding to,
um, you know, stimulate the.
, but you know, in my opinion, it's been
stimulated, like r and d's been done.
Mm-hmm.
, the stuff works.
It's already out there.
Like I actually think taking
some of that R and D money.
Yeah.
And instead utilizing it in, um, you
know, uh, a bigger way with public-private
partnerships to actually implement
and deploy in production to help
these state agencies get this stuff
out there, get out on the roads, is.
you know, I think it is happening.
It's not that it's not happening,
but, um, instead of just focusing
on r and d dollars mm-hmm.
, um, for, for states to try these
things, you know, we're sitting here
having a conversation about, and
we just talked about it with cs,
the the technology is here Yeah.
Enough with the R and D implement
and get it out on the road.
And we heard that message consistently
at T R B, where it's like, if we're
multiple committees are, we're talking of.
if we're already have it and
the tech is already here.
When are we done sort of talking
about the, the, the plan and the
infrastructure and the, you know, the,
the three and five year deployment.
When do we just start funding
this to actually be in
production, out on the roads?
And, and that's a different mindset.
when you're thinking of grants and
contracts, because now it's, it's
not a grant to go try something.
Now you're not talking
about R and D grants.
You're talking about, okay,
well now how do we get this
deployed across the country?
Who pays for it?
How do they fund it?
And more importantly, how do
they operationally support it?
So, um, with the infrastructure
law, yeah, there's tons of,
of funding that's coming down.
A and even for V2X, I mean, look
at all the, the funds and grants
that are in there for, for V2X.
To help expand on infrastructure
constructions, roadway safety, um,
and now it's about using those, using
those funds, not for more R and D and
experimental, but how do you use those
funds so that state agencies actually
get something that can be deployed?
and that then it's, you know, the help
offsets the cost with the grant and the
deployment, but then there's a business
model in place that makes sense that
they can actually afford to operationally
maintain it and keep it going after,
you know, said, grant timeline is over.
So, mm-hmm.
, um, all, all those things have, have
to be true for us to truly have a
production, uh, uh, and, and, uh,
d you know, uh, deployment that can
operationally be, get itself out of
R and D then have it run on its own.
Jake Sigal: Yeah, absolutely.
Agreed.
And, and we're seeing the same thing
and, and, you know, in other areas
of tech at, at, going back to your
point about CES, I mean, it wasn't
that long ago that we were debating,
um, H D T V standards and even before
that it was H D D V D versus Blu-ray.
At least in that industry you're
talking about, uh, production
companies and broadcast.
It was, it was just dealing with
two, um, industries that already
knew how to work together.
Uh, so the NAB Yeah.
National Association of
Broadcaster Industry and the, and
the consumer technology groups.
With, with this, you've
got so many stakeholders.
You've got municipalities and, and
everyone's rushing into companies
like ours and saying, Hey, uh,
there's, there's, there's a grant
that says bike safety, or there's
a grant that says, construction
worker or first responder safety.
I would like to buy that, please.
And, and they don't really know
what to do if they're coming
from smaller, um, smaller areas.
I mean, there are some amazing dots
that have been leading the way, but.
, um, that that's real.
So for the next 90 days, what's hot?
What are you watching for
for this this quarter?
Cory Hohs: Uh, I, I mean
definitely the, the g definitely
the uh, uh, the federal grants.
Um, a lot of this and, and the highway
safety plans, I'll say, looking at what
is going into some of these highway safety
plans is, is critically important cuz it.
Basically gives a glimpse into the
future of what's going to be funded
and what's going to be there, and
what we're gonna see on our roadways.
So it's sometimes not the sexiest topic
to talk about of a highway safety plan,
but really those folks acro, you know,
for every state across the country.
, you know, right now heads down
writing those plans and, and
looking at what has been funded.
Actually, one of the great things
is this, uh, the roadway, uh,
digital alert technology not only
is in the infrastructure law, but
also, um, has a mandate to nitsa to
focus on this kind of technology.
In the omnibus bill mm-hmm.
, there's a lot of momentum of roadway
safety, whether you're a, a bicycle rider
or a pedestrian, you know, Any other
V R U, um, you know, first responders,
utility, just, you know, general cons,
civilians in their vehicles and now
it's, it's up to those highway safety
groups to be able to distill that
information and say, okay, here's how
we're going to, um, have safer roads in
our state and here's the technologies
and the plans that we're gonna do.
So, you know, there's 50 of those
, so it's a lot to keep track of.
It's a lot.
To watch and look at.
But, um, you know, for the most part we,
we, you know, we have a lot of respect for
the fact they're, they're trying to plan.
, you know, for, for, they sort
of had to see into the future of
what are we gonna do in our state
to help reduce these collisions,
um, and save lives on the roads.
And so they're placing those bets, you
know, right now, today with those plants.
So we're, you know, definitely trying
to, to do all we can and always looking
at the new, not, and by the way, um,
if I could just add one more thing,
not only just the, um, the grants, but
also a lot of the federal contracts
that, that are being offered by the
different, uh, groups within federal.
Are also starting, uh, to award
contracts for connected roadways.
So you're seeing this
come from all angles.
So it's a super exciting
time to be in the space.
Aside from.
You know, the, the folks
were, were helping automotive.
Now you have, you know, this
funding and, and grants and, and,
um, deployment that's happening.
Jake Sigal: If there's any doubt,
uh, all you had to do is be at CES
or COVESA or the TRB and you know it,
like, I, I mean, I, I felt like I, I
couldn't, I could have been given away
a hundred dollars bills five years ago
at COVESA with our, our safety demos.
And no one, no one would've
stayed there too long.
But, uh, you know, now it's like 3D
that at both of our booths on the topic.
So, Um, as we start to wrap up, I always
ask all of our guests, uh, what are
your favorite podcasts, newsletters,
and trade events that, uh, keep you
in the know that you can share with
our, our listeners on the bike line,
Cory Hohs: I guess the newsletters, um,
I like the, uh, I think it's just called
Transportation Communications Newsletter.
It's a really great newsletter
that, that essentially has all, all
the links and news that, uh, for,
for transportation I like mm-hmm.
. There's, uh, Lenny's, I
like reading that just.
Startup, uh, you know, tends
to have a pretty good, good
focus on, on various topics.
Um, the Bike Lane,
Jake Sigal: it's all right.
Cory Hohs: Yeah, I like,
I like that newsletter.
Um, and, and also when I like to
nerd out outside of, uh, outside of
transportation, I love the podcast
Star Talk with Neil deGrasse Tyson.
Yeah, I kind of can nerd out on space.
So those are the things I like.
Excellent.
Jake Sigal: Last question.
Uh, how can everyone get in touch
with you and in your company?
Cory Hohs: Yeah, so you can get in
touch with us, um, on Twitter, LinkedIn.
Um, my email, uh, you can email me,
Cory, c o r y, at hassalert.com.
And please follow us on social
and make sure you subscribe to our
newsletter, cuz I think it's one
of the best monthly newsletters.
You'll, you'll get.
Jake Sigal: Well, we'll put all the links
from today's show in the show notes.
That was Cory Hohs, CEO, and
co-founder of HAAS Alert.
I'm your host, Jake Sigal.
Thanks again for listening and see
you next time in the bike lane.