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Every parent has wondered: Am I doing this right?
In a world full of parenting advice, strong opinions, and endless information online, it can be hard to know who to trust. Hosted by clinical psychologists, researchers, and moms, Dr. Leslie Roos and Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen, You're Doing It Right is a podcast for parents who want trustworthy information without the judgment. As parents of young children themselves, Leslie and Lianne understand the joys, challenges, and total chaos that come with parenting, bringing both professional expertise and humor to every conversation.
Each episode features conversations with experts about the questions families are actually asking, from sleep and screen time to behaviour, emotions, relationships, and family wellbeing. Together, they explore what the research really says, what it means for everyday family life, and how to cope when things don’t go exactly to plan.
This podcast is not about perfect parenting. It is about helping families feel more confident, more supported, and a little less alone. The are so many wonderful ways to parent and chances are, you're doing an amazing job.
~You're Doing It Right podcast was supported by funding from the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada (SSHRC)~
YDIR S01 E08 Transcript
Making Memories: Simple Ways to Build Strong Family Bonds
Hosts: Dr. Leslie Roos and Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen
Guest: Dr. Aislin Mushquash
Narration
Every parent wants their kids to look back on childhood and feel loved. But somewhere along the way, spending time together turned into creating content-worthy moments, and a lot of parents are quietly exhausted trying to keep up. Welcome to You're Doing It Right, the parenting podcast where acclaimed psychologists Dr. Leslie Roos and Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen, we bring you honest, research-backed conversations about the messy, funny, and sometimes exhausting work.
Of raising a family. Each episode, they sit down with an expert to dig into a topic parents actually deal with, and to remind you that there's no single right way to do this. Today, what actually makes a memory stick and why it's rarely the expensive part with Dr. Aislin Mushquash . She's a clinical psychologist who studies family coping, resilience, and the role technology plays in modern parenting.
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen
I have a two and a nine-year-old, so the trampoline never goes well. But my two-year-old always wants to be on it with the nine-year-old who obviously is so much more physically capable. And so then he'll get on it and he's narrating all of his actions and emotions. And so if he makes her mad, he'll say, I push you. I push you trampoline. So we're like watching it, being like
Would buy this trampoline and there would be play together, but that like never happens. There is never fun play together.
Dr. Leslie Roos
Best life plans. I think that that's also so relatable though. And it's actually sort of related to our topic today of making memories. I've been having the challenge of the past week. It happened like three times where we have lots of like late after school activities. I have a four year old, but my daughter's soccer sometimes goes till 8 30 or 8 45. And so if I have all the kids, I'm like, it's nice out. I'm like, I want to take them to Dairy Queen to get a blizzard and a treat. And this will be so nice. I like give them a little pep talk. It's like, this is super special. We're gonna be on our
best behavior. Like, what are we gonna do when we get in there? And it's a total shit show. And it's like, and then no one's asleep, like, no one's asleep till 9:30 or 10. And I'm like
But it's like, but I really want to do it. And I think I've realized I was like, I need to not offer it. Like the I'm the problem here. This is my expectation. And my kids are clearly telling me like they don't have the skills to do this now. So I'm just sort of sitting with that. And I'm I still want to do it. So I think it's like I need to either go into it the I with the expectation that we're gonna have like a very rocky next two hours or not do it. But it's like it's a nice idea, right? So like, do you want to do that?
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen
Really nice idea it's like a summer night everybody's tired from their activities you wanna like drive through the Dairy Queen like meep beep in your soccer car
Dr. Leslie Roos
No we even went into the Dairy Queen. Worse idea.
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen
going into the Dairy Queen at 8.30?
Dr. Leslie Roos
We could order so badly at eight forty five.
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen
This is peak Leslie though, because I feel like I will not do things like that and then I miss out on the opportunity to make a memory because I get stressed, whereas I appreciate that you always lean in. You always lean in. Give it a try.
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen
So that's the two of us, debriefing about the messy chaos of trying to make a memory, and it's going just about as well as you'd expect. Welcome back to You're Doing It Right, the parenting podcast that makes it real. I'm clinical psychologist Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen.
Dr. Aislin Mushquash
And I'm clinical psychologist Dr. Leslie Roos. Today's topic is one that we think about a lot as parents. What actually builds strong memories and family bonds? Not the Pinterest version, but the real one, the ones that kids are gonna look back on, that we think about as core memories that are important to us and our kids and our family values.
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen
Because there's so much pressure right now, especially with social media, to make every outing look effortless and magical. And there's
Media Clip
We all have the phone in our back pocket, right? We take an abundance of clips, but with some of the tips we're gonna talk about today, if you'll be more intentional about what you're shooting, you're gonna love the finished product that much more.
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen
That was an excerpt from an interview on a CBS noon show talking about capturing memories and how to do it well, which is great. But most of the time it is chaos. It's a kid getting bounced off a trampoline or a blizzard run that ends in a meltdown at 9 p.m.
Dr. Aislin Mushquash
Connection, it doesn't require like perfection. You don't need these picture perfect moments.
Dr. Leslie Roos
So we are bringing in Dr. Aislin Mushquash , a clinical psychologist who splits her time between clinical work with First Nations children, youth and families in Northwestern Ontario, along with research and teaching at Lakehead University, where she studies family relationships, coping, and the role technology plays in family well being.
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen
And part way through, we're gonna step out of the interview for a few minutes to dig into something Ashlyn touches on. The real research on what builds connection versus what we're being sold. So stay with us for that.
Can you tell us a little bit just about yourself, like your academic background for the podcast?
Dr. Aislin Mushquash
So I was trained as a clinical psychologist and I completed my PhD at Dalhousie University. And then after that, I did a postdoctoral fellowship in the Department of Pediatrics through the University of Alberta, where I focus mostly on family-based interventions related to child health and mental health difficulties. And now I work in Thunder Bay, and my my role is kind of part-time clinical work, part-time research, part-time teaching. And so where I work clinically is an organization that supports.
First Nations children, youth and families from the Robinson Superior Treaty Area, which is in here in Northwestern Ontario. And then at Lakehead is where I do research and teaching. And so my team and I we study family relationships, how coping skills influence well-being among families and kids. And more recently I've been looking a lot at technology and the the good and bad impacts that technology can have on well-being and on coping and
Try to figure out where's the right place for technology in families, in parenting and in our lives as individuals.
Dr. Leslie Roos
Could you tell us a little bit about what brought you to studying coping and relationships and family well being?
Dr. Aislin Mushquash
Being trained as psychologist, we we're often trained on supporting people through difficult experiences. And of course, it would be great to be able to prevent every difficult experience from someone's life. And if we could do that, everyone probably would feel a lot better. But we know that we can't do that. So where's the place that we can intervene? I think it's thinking about how do we manage, how do we deal with things when they don't go according to plan, when there's big emotions, when there's Issues that come up, challenges, whether it's in the parent's life or the child's life or both or in the world. So how do we navigate that? I think there's always a place where we can think about the way that we are coping with situations and then look at ways to try to do things a little bit differently. And there's always like small changes that we can make. So I think it offers a place of hope for parents and as researchers to be able to study something that, you know, there's always a place to try something a little bit differently and it's this constant process of trial and error where you try something, see how it went. If it went okay, keep doing that. If it didn't, try something different. So I think that's what parenting is essentially, is like you're constantly doing this trial and error to see what works and what doesn't. And you know, families are tricky because there's lots of people involved. It's not just it's often not just one parent, one child. There might be multiple kids, multiple adults, multiple systems you're involved in. So it's this trial and error process. And I think with coping there's always a place for that. To help us navigate things a little bit more smoothly.
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen
Today we're talking about making memories. I've seen lots of parents and they'll have like these big expectations. You have social media. And so this idea that like making memories is important to families. I think we want our kids to look back on their childhood with positivity, but it can also be really stressful for parents, especially if they're managing multiple demands. It can feel like one more thing to do. I'm curious if you can talk about like why do you think parents feel so much pressure around creating these experiences?
Dr. Aislin Mushquash
I think what you mentioned around like things that you're seeing online, social media, you know, it's a big presence now and a lot of those perfect memories now are sort of shown and positioned with a lot of stuff. So I saw one recently where it was like, Here's everything I did to prepare for our fourteen hour road trip and it was just all these things they bought to set their car up, blackout shades and ear pods for, you know, beside each kid and like a a busy board for the back of each each seat and it's just all this stuff.
When really, like, you know, that same fourteen hour drive, probably the kids would have been asleep for half of it, blackout shades or not, you know, thinking about what are some low cost ways that we can have fun on a drive, like, you know, looking for things with every letter of the alphabet or the windows or each person gets to be the the DJ for, you know, ten minutes of the drive and so I think it yeah, there's just
This pressure that to create these memories, it has to be extravagant. When really it's just the time together and it's just, you know, having fun. For kids it's like that silliness, you know, seeing their parents and caregivers be silly sometimes and entering into their world playing along. It doesn't necessarily have to be something extra or something new.
Dr. Leslie Roos
Build on that a little bit. I absolutely agree. What do you think helps children feel strongly connected to their parents or caregivers?
Dr. Aislin Mushquash
Yeah, I think you know, having someone that you can rely on. So that consistency and availability is really important. The predictability of I think that's what adults can bring to the family relationship is, you know, you're consistently there. You you bring in some predictability of like the structure of our day will be this. And of course there's gonna be some differences from day to day, but in general, it's like, you know, you get picked up from daycare or picked up from school, and then in general, you know, maybe kids get 30 minutes of screen time while parents are making supper and then after that, you know, maybe do some reading or quieter activities before bed. So in general, this is what the structure looks like. And that gives kids some predictability about what to expect in their life with with families. So I think that can create that structure where memories are meaningful and it's within this framework where kids know that they can have fun, they can experience things with their family, and then it's in a relationship where there's that foundation and safety.
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen
There's this idea that for kid to have a strong family memory or for things to go well on a plane ride, you have to buy something.
And I can tell you like thinking back to my own childhood, there's so few memories I have around somebody buying me something that are really, really important. And there's probably a lot more of going out with my dad to the farm or like driving out to visit family that really stuck out, things that are different than my normal routine, but that didn't cost a lot of money. And I'm curious, like from your perspective, what makes memories for kids?
Dr. Aislin Mushquash
It's time together. And so that can be something extravagant or not, right? It it's time together. So of course there's some times where we might do the big extravagant thing, but that doesn't have to be every memory. So it's the time together. And I think we're in this time where parents are so busy and trying to do so many things at once that sometimes then even when we try to have like a moment or an activity with kids, it's like you're also trying to like add things to the grocery list or respond to an email really quick or make a phone call. So trying to carve out even if it's a short period of time, like can we carve out time where everything else is put aside, not constantly on the clock, whether it's work or like other responsibilities, but can we quiet everything else to have some a short duration of like dedicated time, whether it's to go for a walk or yeah, like out to the farm or even like playing catch or something. It doesn't have to be something complicated.
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen
So tell me all your tips and tricks for making the family vacation like go smoothly and be memorable and actually fun for sure.
Dr. Leslie Roos
No pressure.
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen
Fix everyone's vacations.
Dr. Aislin Mushquash
People's routines get off and you know, emotions are bigger. So having time that it doesn't have to be go, go, go all the time, like still trying to find ways where there could be some quieter activities. I think for parents too, like vacations or not. Try to find some things that your kids will like, but that parents will also enjoy. Because if we're constantly going to thing after thing after thing that are just draining for parents, but kids love it, but we're like hate being there. So can we find some things where parents are gonna get some enjoyment out of it too. I think sometimes parents are like, give, give, give all of yourself and everything for your kids, which we want to do and give, give, give to our kids, but they're gonna have more enjoyment if you're also enjoying yourself too. So trying to keep that in mind when we're looking at like how are we spending our days on vacation? And can there still be some downtime? And knowing, and just knowing that things are gonna be a little off than they might be at home because routines are out of whack and sleep's probably getting messed up and so any anything we can do to reset that from time to time throughout the day will be helpful. You spend time, you spend energy, you're often spending money, you're coordinating something. And for you to be really disappointed about how something went, like that really sucks.
Dr. Leslie Roos
And when we're talking about making memories, we also know that memories are made and maintained when you talk about things as a family. And so when you as a parent are looking back on things and you're able to say, like, wasn't that so fun? Do you remember when we did this? And both the kids and you can have positive feelings about it. Like, I think that matters a lot too.
Dr. Aislin Mushquash
I think it's just that special time together, maybe seeing people that you don't often see. So it's like the relationships. It's the the time together regardless of what you're doing. It doesn't have to be something expensive. The piece that's out of the ordinary could just be the people you're with. So maybe it's like a cousin you haven't seen for a long time or a family friend. Those are the special moments, not necessarily going to like a theme park or something super thrilling or exciting. And it can feel like as a parent, like I've done all this and spent like a thousand dollars and it is just still not enough. I think like that goes into our expectations too of of setting them low and knowing that even if you do fifty things, the kids are gonna ask, what's the fifty first thing that we're gonna do? And so always wanting, you know, more. But looking back, like you said, about reflecting on the experience. What do we like? What do we enjoy? That hopefully can start to build some of that appreciation in kids too.
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen (14:26)
We're gonna pause here for a minute to break something down a bit that I think as parents we often forget. Through making memories, we're building family bonds, connecting with our kids. As we hear here from Ream Rauda, a conscious parenting coach and author who was featured on CNBC.
Media Clip
The strength of our relationship with our children in their early years defines our relationship with them for life. Never let a day go by without connection. Real guided deep undivided attention, connection.
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen
So we want to pull on that thread for a minute, because there's actually a pretty clear research-backed way to think about how bonds like that get built.
Dr. Leslie Roos
So when we talk by building connections with our kid, what we want to start with is noticing when a child is looking for attention or what those bids are. This can be anything that a kid's doing to get a reaction or share an experience with a parent. This is highlighted by Harvard Center on the Developing Child from research on what they call serve and return. This idea that a young kid babbles, points at something, tugs on your sleeve, that's the serve. And as a parent, you're going to recognize that they're trying to get your attention and you're gonna respond. Say, cool, that's awesome. You want a blueberry, whatever that is. Could even just be like, watch this. So a moment to share their focus of attention and look at something together. Those bids happen constantly and are really a foundation for family relationships and connection. And a lot of them are easy to miss if you're not looking for them. So it's not something where you're expected to, you know, catch 100% of your child's bids and respond to them all the time. Sometimes you want to say like one sec, the eggs are about to burn, but it's something that can be really helpful to take some, you know, purposeful attention to notice what's going on and help your child feel like they're important, like you care about what they have to say, what they're looking at, which is really helpful over time.
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen
Most of us think our kids are really cool. So noticing them, acknowledging what they're trying to show us, even briefly, is an important way for us to feel connected to them and for them to feel connected to us. And so responding is what really matters. And again, I want to highlight that doesn't have to be a hundred percent hit rate. Sometimes you're gonna notice it and you're gonna respond and that's great. There's gonna be sometimes when your kid has to learn that you are cooking and that's okay also.
Dr. Leslie Roos
For sure. And this maps on almost exactly into what Ashland was saying. So it's not about, you know, the 14-hour road trip with eight amazing sights. It might be the look at my drawing and getting a real look back, say, wow, that's so interesting. What did you do here? Cool rainbow. Any of those things are gonna make your kid, you know, have that light up reaction inside. And if you are also looking at them, you can often really notice that. I think that's also something like, wow. They really do like when you freeze them, connect with them, all those things.
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen
And then make it repeatable. So this is where routine really comes into play. So a bedtime book, the Sunday morning coffee making experience that Ashlyn mentioned. A 50-year review out of the Journal of Family Psychology found that it's specifically the repeated, predictable rituals, not the one-off big events that are linked to kids' sense of identity and stronger family relationships over time. One bid answered well is nice, but the same bid answered well night after night is what actually builds the bond. So one of the things I'm proudest about in my parenting this year, I've just been reflecting on is like we read to our kids every single night, probably for 15 minutes each. And if I do the math, adding that up, I think that really matters for our relationships.
Dr. Leslie Roos
That's so nice. And I think that that's helpful to highlight also because it's like these rituals don't need to be the same for every family. And there can be seasons where they're happening more or less frequently or other things come into play. But it's that predictable positive experience where they have your attention and you can can connect over something that's so valuable. Something that I also think people skip that we've talked about before is the opportunity to repair points of connection if you miss it. Because you're gonna miss beds for all sorts of reasons.
And so one of the things that's important to highlight is that it's the repeated pattern of missing your kids' cues all the time when they're looking for attention. So a parent swelling on their phone during visit to the park when you need a mental break, you need your kid to get outside. That's not the problem. But maybe you know they've tried to get you to look at something four or five times. They want you to come to the sandbox, you don't want to. I'm guilty of this as well. I sometimes just want to sit there and I don't want to come and look at the sandbox.
Then you can circle back and say, hey, give me two more minutes and then I'm gonna come look at the sandbox. I was distracted, I had to lose something else, but like now I'm here, show me what's up, let's get into it. That really matters to kids. And so, you know, if you wanna be someone who's sitting at the sandbox building with them, like good on you, that's awesome. They will also love that. But you can also be the parent who is managing other stuff sometimes and just comes in to do a little bit more of like a drop and focus connection in a shorter period of time.
And that might be what works for you right now. So it's finding that balance.
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen
And that's basically Aislin’s rupture and repair point from earlier in our conversation, just backed up by a different research literature. So notice it, turn towards it, repeat it, repair it if you drop it.
Dr. Leslie Roos
And this is really relevant here because when it comes to making memories, I think we can put too much pressure on ourselves to make it perfect or have everything be executed exactly how we hoped it could be. Because we think we have to go all out all the time. But memories can be created in so many different ways. So I think, you know, I'm a planner. It's cool if you're a planner, it's cool if you're not, also. That's just how my brain works. But if you are working on making those memories and you have something planned,
It's both the plan, but then it's being in the moment, being able to like go with the flow, pay attention, connect on the positive experiences you are having. That's what's really critical. That's what's gonna lead to those good memories. And giving yourself some credit too for all the hard work that you do to pull this stuff off, to carve out time for your kids, to do things as a family. That is all very, very meaningful. Let's get back to the conversation.
Dr. Aislin Mushquash
Families build insight into what works for them. And so that has to be done individually. And so I think for parents, like building up just the comfort and trust in that you know your family the best. And even if you had the financial capacity and the time to add on one more thing, do one more thing, like maybe go to the local baseball game that's on this evening. If you know that for yourself and for your kids, it's just gonna create maybe conflict, or everyone's gonna be exhausted, or you're gonna get home and not.
Be ready for the week ahead. If you know that that's how it's gonna end up, then regardless of the activity, it's not worth it because people aren't gonna enjoy it necessarily and it's just gonna create a negative impact. So I think empowering parents and and caregivers that like you know your family the best. And sometimes that takes a lot of work because there's a lot of doubt there of like seeing, well, look how happy they are. And especially as kids start to get on social media too, because now you have that added pressure of their seeing their friends did this thing or their friends went to the pool or their friends, you know, got to go for ice cream after the baseball game. And as the kids get older there's additional pressure to navigate. But hopefully as kids get older too, families can start to have those conversations of like, remember last week when we tried to do the ice cream after and it just got way too late and everyone was like melting down after and it's just not worth it. Why don't we go home and we'll have an ice cream at home? And so to it make something special at home, like we have sprinkles and let's put them on at home and build some excitement around like family routines and family time together, but that doesn't have to be in a way that everybody else is doing that, you know, a family might know that isn't gonna go well for them.
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen
That's really helpful. I'm curious your thoughts on how families balance like taking pictures and trying to capture the moment so that they can talk about it later and show things to their kids versus just being present.
Dr. Aislin Mushquash
It’s tricky, right? 'Cause we do want to be have things to look back on. Yeah, my son was just in track and field last week and it like his first time in it as a grade four and you know, he he had his races and they're short little races and only like fifteen, twenty seconds long and so I I was facing this moment of like, do I take a video? You're not fully present 'cause you're like trying to get them in the screen or do I just not and watch with my real eyes and so sometimes if you have multiple adults there, one person can decide like they for this experience or this part of the time together are gonna take some videos and the other adult could just experience the moment. So knowing that ahead of time and then picking and choosing your moments. So if there's times where, you know, you want to capture a couple of things, but then being able to put the phone away so you can just be in the moment and experience the rest of it like through your real eyes can create those meaningful moments too and that you can still reflect on and talk about without necessarily looking up back at something.
Dr. Leslie Roos
What are some other like small rituals that you think can be meaningful for helping families stay connected amidst the chaos of everything else?
Dr. Aislin Mushquash
We build in little moments of connection and ritual into like the bedtime routine. We know that the bedtime routine has to happen, but it doesn't just have to be like task oriented, like brush your teeth, pajamas, get into bed. You know, can there be a little moment of connection or rituals built into like the day to day routine? So could that be reading a book before bed as kids get older, having them read you part of a book before bed? Or like one thing we do with the w kids on the weekend is like we wanted to be able to have slower mornings on the weekend. So like be able to have a coffee and like not be rushed. Teach them about like it doesn't have to be rush, rush, rush, go, go, go, like slam breakfast into you on to the next thing. Like we can take some time, whether it's cooking together or making a coffee and and then yeah, finding places like it with our kids. It's like always simple, small things. So like our son's into all sports, so he really likes playing catch. So all you need is ball and a glove and and it doesn't matter the weather can just do that for ten, fifteen minutes and and that's kind of a reset regardless of what's going on. It doesn't have to be extravagant. If you have an artistic child, maybe it's putting on like a you one of those learn to draw videos and doing it together.
Dr. Leslie Roos
My husband has comes from a really big sports family, and he started watching like sports highlights of hockey games or the World Cup or other things with the kids in the morning. And it's so nice. And they all come together and they talk about it and they ooh and they And it's it's a really great thing that they do together. And that's a sort of ritual for them. And then they talk about it with their friends. Like there's so much that comes from that. And I think being able to appreciate those things that you're already doing that like have that sort of sparkle to them.
And figure out like how do I do it more, how do I do it more intentionally. There's a lot that people are already doing that does contribute to that. Sometimes I think we just need to give ourselves a bit more credit about some of those pieces.
Dr. Aislin Mushquash
Sure. And that's like sort of what we talked about earlier, bringing kids into the things that we already enjoy.
Dr. Leslie Roos
I know some of your research focuses on coping and adaptive ways of managing stress. How would you think about some of these, you know, strong family relationships or rituals in helping children when they're managing stressful times for a family? Like what what role and what importance do they have?
Dr. Aislin Mushquash
Yeah, our routines and rituals, they've provide like that safety net of even when things maybe are chaotic emotionally for a child or environmentally, like let's say there's something going on at school that's upsetting, or emotionally if they're dealing with like tricky emotions or anxious thoughts, like the family structure and the routine creates that foundation that is that predictability where it's like not one more thing that they have to worry about, wondering like when are we gonna eat today or who's gonna be around today or what do we have on the go? Like that's one less thing that kids have to, you know, mentally create capacity for. So if they know the general routine of the family household, then it's just yeah, that that foundation where then their capacity is freed up to work through the tricky stuff more with their family. And then I think like as bumps come up in the road for parents, like if we are able to model the kind of emotion regulation or coping that we hope to see in our kids, that's that's a benefit. But also like narrating what we're doing. And maybe we come back after a a stressful experience where let's say a parent was overwhelmed and, you know, I've had lots of these times where it's just there's just like too much noise, too much chaos, and like everyone's asking a million things of you as a parent, Mom, this, mom, mom, mom. And you're like trying to do this and you're burning supper and it's just like you hit that moment of like, and maybe you lose your temper, maybe you like slam something down and now the dish is ruined and so if we can model like what to do in the moment if it comes to us, but even if not, coming back to it after and saying like, you know, I was really overwhelmed in that moment and I just felt completely flustered and you know, maybe what would helped was turning the stove off, taking a couple moments, you know, in a different room to decompress and then coming back to it and figuring out like, you know, what's a priority in terms of like who needs what and can we all kind of divide and conquer in those moments. So putting words to when things go well, but even when things don't go well, because that's where kids learn, is like, okay, it doesn't have to go perfect every time. Parents screw up, kids screw up, we work through it, you know, hopefully they're gonna learn what to do in the screw ups. And if they know that parents screw up too, then it's easier to feel like it's okay to screw up as a kid because you don't think your parents are doing everything perfectly all the time either.
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen
From your perspective, like is there research that you've come across around like building these bonds with kids?
Dr. Aislin Mushquash
The research in terms of bonds and we can go back all the way to like attachment theory and you know, decades and decades of research about building that fan strong foundation and family relationship for secure attachment for kids. So lots of research to show that that it helps as a buffer for when there is adversity. So we know we can't predict the future about like if things come up that are tricky to deal with. And we can try as best we can to have a a life that will minimize adversity, but we don't know what's gonna happen, but having that strong foundation and family bond, we know that it has all these lasting benefits on the child, creating this secure attachment that then even as they get older teaches them about, you know, what what should I expect from other people in my life. All these patterns happen over like repeated interactions. And so, you know, one or a few times a week where you lose your temper and react in a way that it doesn't align with your values or it's not the type of parent that you want to be, that's not gonna undo the foundation that you've been building. And and we always have these opportunities to repair things. And so it's the overall kind of environment that we're creating, not these one-offs of like when things maybe didn't go right or or we felt like weren't up to the standards that we've set for ourselves.
Dr. Leslie Roos
It's so easy at the end of the day to focus on those moments that didn't go well or that you didn't want to happen. There's so much value to focusing on, you know, this was a hard day. What were the moments that went well?
Dr. Aislin Mushquash
When we're supporting parents to address maybe challenging behaviors in kids, it's we often talk about like looking for catching them being good, looking for the good. Because we're often we notice and we pay more attention to like the misbehavior and and when things are going well. So I think we can turn that back on ourselves as parents too and say, like, look for the moments where you did well. Catch yourself being, you know, adaptive and catch yourself modeling good behavior. And as you're laying in bed reflecting on the day, I think those those negative moments pop up of like, I shouldn't have said that or I overreacted. But can we also like give just as much time to think about, those are times where I did react well or those are times where I made a special moment or connection with them and give that some attention too because then it's more likely to happen again and and we pay more attention to that.
Dr. Leslie Roos
I also think that if maybe you're somebody who's self-compassion is a little bit trickier, you have a harder time noticing it in yourself. Like, can you notice it in a friend you're hanging out with, or notice it in a partner or a co-parent to be like, hey, this was a really hard moment. Thanks so much for stepping in, or I really appreciated how you, you know, gave my kids some space. There's so many different ways that we contribute to a community of us all feeling a little better about our parenting and not feeling badly because we're always, you know, comparing in a way that's unhelpful.
Dr. Aislin Mushquash
Yeah, this idea of like perfection and striving for that and like what is good enough parenting and like such a range of of of what is like good enough. Like and that good enough doesn't mean bad, right? Like that we don't have to give and give and give and be so burnt out and always try to do more. And my dissertation research was all about perfectionism and how in some areas we could be perfect, right? Like if you are striving to be a perfect student when you're younger maybe getting 100% in every course is you would say, okay, if I get a hundred percent in every course, I'm the perfect student. But as we get into these roles where there's no clear definition of perfect. So how are you a perfect parent or a perfect employee or a perfect spouse? Like there is no clear definition. So striving for something like that, we're only set up to fail because we will never know if we've met that. So thinking about like what what are our standards and like that this is where like checking in with your family and your values about like what is really important to us as a family and if we're achieving those things, it might not be like the Instagram real kind of like curated perfect family vacation, but if it is meeting our family values and doing the things that are important to us, then that is a win. Connection doesn't require this perfection in in our experiences and our moments.
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen (31:50)
Fascinated that you did your dissertation on perfectionism. Like, can you say more about how this creeps into families?
Dr. Aislin Mushquash
You talk earlier about being like neuroticism, right? So it's sort of a a cousin to perfectionism. So we all have these traits, right? That each parent brings along with them these different traits. And some some parents naturally will be higher in feeling like they need to be perfect or feeling like there's pressure on them to be perfect. And then that can show up in what we put on our kids too. And so you know, expecting kids to reach some unattainable goal for perfection can create animosity and resentment and when I see people who experience some of this perfectionism, I think we we look for up safe opportunities to not be perfect. So it's like exposure like we would do for any anxiety related experience, but looking for ways like where can you screw up and do it in a safe, measured way. And then look at the impact of that. Like do people treat you differently if you don't get a hundred percent on that next test? Or if you are two minutes late for a meeting, what will that mean?
Looking for places where we can challenge that narrative that I have to be perfect or my kids have to be perfect. I think sometimes parents have that, like the way that my kids present themselves in public has to be a certain way. And if they're not, it has, you know, what does that mean for me and my role as a parent if they're acting up in public? So looking for little opportunities to test out some of those predictions.
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen
I think that comes up a lot. What does it mean about me if my kid is acting out at the mini golf?
Dr. Leslie Roos
You have a kid is what that means. Congratulations. Do you have any closing words or things you want parents to to keep in mind when they're thinking about making memories or wanting to collect those special moments with their kids?
Dr. Aislin Mushquash
Connection, it doesn't require like perfection. You don't need these picture perfect moments and memories. They can be just short experiences we have with our kids, short little things you can do within 30 seconds. Thinking about the the routines that we already have and making some of them a little bit more special. Yeah, I think those are all places where we can just look at what we're doing already and think about how we turn that into things that create routine and and special times with our families.
Dr. Leslie Roos
So if there's one thing to take for this conversation, it's that connection doesn't require perfection. It's not going to that amusement park or fair that your neighbor's going to. It's not, you know, taking a photo every weekend of the summer with a new special activity. It's the same bedtime story night after night.
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen
And that stat that we sat with earlier, parents feeling pressured to be perfect. Well, a lot of it is coming straight from social media. And it's worth remembering the next time that you're scrolling and you're feeling behind that you might be comparing your regular Tuesday to somebody else's highlight reel.
Dr. Leslie Roos
Ashley's point about catching yourself doing well really stuck with me too. We're so quick to replay the moment when we lost it and so slow to notice the moment that we got it right, when we had those special moments, when we shared that connection with our kid. And, you know, both are are worthy of attention. It's okay to notice when like we wish that something turned out differently and we feel a bit disappointed. But I really want everyone to not ignore all those moments and all those times of your day when that wasn't what was happening. So celebrate the wins. It's not just what your kid did, it's what you pulled off. It's all the time you spent together, the things that you did, the new skills that everyone learned, the ways you managed when things went totally haywire. You got everyone fed and out the door, you held it together through the meltdown in the parking lot.
People didn't miss the key things you wanted them to do. And if they did miss them, maybe you can come back next year and do that too. So this is the actual job of parenting and it should deserve the same celebration and notice that we think we give to the moments that we failed.
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen
And if you're looking for a place to start making connections, it doesn't have to be a vacation or a really extensive plan or a purchase. It can be 30 seconds where you're really focused on your kiddo, a high five, a made-up story that flips back and forth. It's the small repeated things that actually work to create family bonds.
Dr. Leslie Roos
Thank you so much to Dr. Aislin Mushquash for this conversation and for all the work she does with families in Ontario and beyond.
Dr. Lianne Tomfohr-Madsen
And thank you for listening. If this one landed for you, send it to another parent, because chances are they're out there buying blackout shades for a 14-hour drive and could use the reminder that a bus ride on the trip might be the part that their kid actually remembers.
Dr. Leslie Roos
On the next You're Doing It Right, we are joined by Dr. Dillon Browne to talk about what's actually restoring balance in a chaotic household and what's just noise. We'll see you next time.
Narration
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