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A relatable and honest podcast about the highs and lows of being a youth hockey parent. Join us as we share real stories, struggles, and wins from the rink, offering insights and support for parents navigating the world of youth hockey.
Alright, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Crazy Hockey Dads podcast. The unfiltered podcast for hockey parents. No politics, no sugarcoating, just real talk for hockey parents in the trenches.
Jamie:Crushed it.
Scott:Did crush it.
Jamie:Crushed it? Yeah. Not bad. No.
Scott:I think Yeah. We're working on it. We're working
Jamie:on it. No. It sounds great. Crushed it.
Scott:You know, every every week, we're trying that, like, know, just 1% better.
Jamie:100 yes. I would say a 100% for 1%. But yes. 60% of the time? Works every time.
Scott:Not even mad. I'm just impressed. You made a whole wheel of cheese. So many good movies. Anyhow.
Scott:It's terrible. So many good movies. So many good movies.
Jamie:One of my favorites by far.
Scott:Yeah. But yeah, no dude, we're back. Episode 23.
Jamie:Yes. We are. Now you have me thinking about Anchorman, by the way.
Scott:I need to watch that again. It's been a minute. It's And down, down, down It's down in my belly.
Jamie:He's so good. I mean, in my you know, it's funny. In my opinion Yeah. They don't make movies like those anymore. Like, old schools, the Anchormans
Scott:oh, man, the beep
Jamie:is in it. It's the worst. And we're leaving it too.
Scott:Fuck. Fuck.
Jamie:The beep is back. Goddamn
Scott:it. Mean Turned it off. Listen, if you guys keep hearing the beep, this is the
Jamie:last time. Beep is back, guys. The beep is back. What episode was that? 18?
Scott:I don't know. 19? Just try to forget it.
Jamie:Something no. Don't forget it. Leave it there. Like you said, just try to get 1% better every time. 60% of the time it works, every time.
Scott:Stop one step forward, two steps back.
Jamie:That doesn't make any sense. It doesn't. No.
Scott:No. But listen. Listen. We're we're we are we're back. No no guests this week.
Scott:Yes. We had three weeks of really breaking into that space of having guests, and I think it went really well. Got great feedback Yeah. All around.
Jamie:Oh, that was great.
Scott:No. It was awesome. It's great to hear
Jamie:Both guys were great.
Scott:Yeah. And, you you know, obvious this is such an obvious thing to say, but, like, just hearing, you know you knew Vollmer or you know him, like, on a personal level for years. Eric Eric, you know, I've known, but not necessarily on a personal level to the extent where we were exchanging some of the stories. And just hearing more about his story was, you know, was awesome to
Jamie:get to
Scott:know him better. Yeah.
Jamie:Yeah. Nice guy. Nice call by you.
Scott:Yeah. So this week, No. No Cool. No guests? Just the two of us?
Jamie:Yeah. Which I think is good.
Scott:Yeah. Well, I think we'll probably shoot for a guest, you know, one to two two to three get let's say two guests a month, maybe.
Jamie:Yes. I think that That works out. Kind of agreed on that. That made sense. You know?
Jamie:Yeah. No. I think it's perfect.
Scott:But we have reached out to a few folks and should have some some some really good guests
Jamie:We have a plethora
Scott:of people kind of lined
Jamie:up in a queue.
Scott:Listen. I we we we have we've been asking, and people are are interested in doing it. And so it's just a matter of us, like, getting that organized. But the good news is that we have parents that have listened that are interested, and we're gonna have some really great hockey stories coming at all of you
Jamie:Oh, yes. Soon. Yes. Do you know what it
Scott:means to have a plethora? Jesus. Do you know where we're throw?
Jamie:Noah Wapo, because I am not as smart as you. Together we rip the horses and rode up on the women and pruned the hedges of many small villages. Sorry.
Scott:Dude, you gotta read it.
Jamie:Do you know it? Come on. Give me the movie. If you don't know this, I'm gonna be very upset.
Scott:I know Three Amigos.
Jamie:Thank you.
Scott:Just checking
Jamie:on this.
Scott:Three Amigos. Amigos.
Jamie:If you did not know that.
Scott:No. But, yeah, I got I got a I had a moment of pause because I thought to myself, fuck. That's
Jamie:When I said El Wapo, assuming you knew it.
Scott:No. No. No. Just thought it was a more recent movie, and I was like, fuck. I'm blanking.
Scott:I'm just like, it's gotta be three Amigos.
Jamie:Like I said, when we started talking about Anchorman, like, in my opinion, you don't have guys like Chevy Chase, like Dan Aykroyd, like Martin Short, like Bill Murray,
Scott:like It's different.
Jamie:You know, all those guys, they're just you know, they just don't
Scott:Robin Williams. Uh-oh. John Candy. The
Jamie:all those old Saturday night live guys, like, you don't have those guys these days, in my opinion. They're just not
Scott:It was a different breed. It was a different time. It was a different life. Yes. It was all different.
Jamie:But the I don't I feel like you don't get those comedies anymore. Like, the Anchormans of the world, the Old Schools of the world, the Talladega Knights of the world. Yeah. Like, I feel like you don't get that anymore.
Scott:No. No. I Disappointed. I'm I'm thinking if there's anything that comes to if
Jamie:I can't think of one. Mhmm. I can't think of
Scott:a a comedian out there
Jamie:that I'm like, wow. That guy's awesome on TV.
Scott:He's crushing it.
Jamie:He's crushing it in movies. Can't think of
Scott:Oh, in right. Right. Right. No. They're all they're all crushing it on, like, Instagram and whatever else.
Jamie:Steve Martins of the world. Like, those guys. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like, the the
Scott:But they have their own I guess, like, comedians, they have their own specials. They have the Netflix thing. They had, like, the Richard Pryor thing. Had that back
Jamie:in the day. Like, HBO used to run those.
Scott:All that stuff.
Jamie:Yeah. Yeah. But, like, the movies, I mean.
Scott:Yeah. The movies. Yeah.
Jamie:Like, oh my god. Like, three Amigos.
Scott:Steve Martin is Oh my god. Next level. He's so good. And the jerk. Oh my god.
Scott:The cans.
Jamie:He's shooting
Scott:at the cans. Okay. We're parking the movies into the parking lot. We are moving forward. Here
Jamie:we go. Anyhow. Here we go. Talk talk to
Scott:me about
Jamie:some hockey.
Scott:Yeah. So one last thing to just get through it, crazy hockey, dads, partners, Howie's hockey.
Jamie:Crazy 10.
Scott:Yep. Crazy 10. Use it. Prostride.
Jamie:Especially with the season coming up.
Scott:Yeah. 100%. Time to time to load up. Yep. Prostride, Elite Skating, Angelo Searce.
Scott:Yep. Check them out. Check it out. If there's one near you fuck. God.
Scott:Turning the shit off. It's fucking annoying.
Jamie:So loud too in our ears. My god.
Scott:Jesus. Okay. It's done.
Jamie:Sorry, everyone. Like I said before, right, and you've all heard me say it, we are raw, unfiltered, and unedited.
Scott:Oh, unedited. Alright. We we need to get this show.
Jamie:Let's go. It's good. It's good for us to have
Scott:a time,
Jamie:but not when it beeps in our ears. It was annoying.
Scott:I mean, I literally toggled off
Jamie:I saw you before we started.
Scott:I know. Well, listen. We'll figure it out. Okay.
Jamie:Anyhow So talking about
Scott:more hot. Wait. No. No. So Prostride
Jamie:Oh, right. Sorry.
Scott:Crazy ten. No. No. No. CHD ten.
Jamie:CHD 10.
Scott:Yep. And then we've got, athletic performance insight. Yes. So check them out. Mention
Jamie:Crazy hockey
Scott:dads. 10 off. Yep. And just, everyone, I encourage you to reach out to Eric. He'll demo, the software for you.
Scott:He will tag a game for you just to see what comes out on the other end, the analytics that you guys can use to, you know, help improve your team's Yeah. Performance on the ice. So API, athletic performance insight, get after it. Okay. So after three weeks of interviews, you know, one of the things that I thought about was really just the difference between the parents' identity in this whole thing and then the player's identity.
Scott:And I think from listening to both of our parents, there were times where those things got confused. And and when I say confused, I mean, like, you know, perhaps that the parents Mhmm. The parents had higher hopes potentially at times.
Jamie:And Maybe more into it than the kid is at the moment?
Scott:Into the kid. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Scott:And, I, you know, I think when I think back on talking about as I mince my words, Vollmer. Yep. And that example that keeps resonating with me is when, like, he made the comment to Ryan, and then it was, like, you know, a harder pill for Ryan to swallow than what, you know
Jamie:Right.
Scott:He actually meant, you know, when we talked to Eric. Yeah. And, like, when his son when yeah. When when he, decided that he needed to take a break and started playing basketball
Jamie:Right. For
Scott:two years or something like that. Yeah. Something like that. So there there there comes a time when, like, as well intentioned as we as parents are, you know, say or do things that are in line with our view of the situation and what's gonna help push things forward or what we want. And then it doesn't always line up with what the kid needs at the time.
Scott:Or Yeah. So I think that's something that has resonated with me and and and I've continued to think about since we've finished up the last two last three episodes.
Jamie:Yeah. You know, it's funny. I think that sometimes the pressure gets to us parents. Yep. And there is pressure.
Scott:Yeah. No doubt.
Jamie:Right? There probably shouldn't be. Yep. But there is.
Scott:Yep.
Jamie:You know? So I think that and I think sometimes that those frustrations come out towards our kids. Yep. Right? I mean, you're putting so much time and effort into this game as a parent.
Jamie:Yep. Not just a kid, as a parent. And I think sometimes we lose sight of the bigger picture.
Scott:Yep.
Jamie:Right? Which is really, like, what building blocks is the kid getting from this, whether it's how to play as a team player, whether it's, how to build work ethic, whether it's how to, you know, if you fall down, yeah, quickly can get back up. And I mean that literally. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, when you make a mistake, how quickly can you kinda come back from it.
Jamie:Right? You know, Dominic and I talk a lot about, you know, just as a human being, how sometimes his emotions get the best of him. Yes. And he doesn't make a good decision when he's out of control.
Scott:Out of shape.
Jamie:Right. So that's a good life lesson for people like, you know, when you're an adult or, you know, a young man. You know, I think that some people's emotions can get the best of them, and they normally don't make the best decisions when their emotions are high and they're not really thinking clearly. Right? So I think that sometimes we lose sight of why our kids are playing this game.
Jamie:Okay? And and the pressure gets to us
Scott:Yeah.
Jamie:As a parent. You know? Because we're all type a ish personalities for the most part. Right? May maybe not all of us, but a lot
Scott:of Right. Well, here oh, so here's a good example. I think and I think a lot of parents will relate to this is just think about my hockey rankings. Perfect example. And like
Jamie:Perfect example.
Scott:There there's something where
Jamie:Yep.
Scott:At certainly at the younger ages. It obviously depends on the level that your kids play.
Jamie:No. It's a perfect example.
Scott:But, like, parents are so can be so obsessed with my hockey rink. Wednesday morning, 08:00 eastern, here they come. And it's like
Jamie:I think it's even before that if you start you start refreshing. I know people that used to refresh at, like, three, four in the morning.
Scott:Oh, it comes out that no. It doesn't come out that way.
Jamie:It doesn't it used to.
Scott:No shit.
Jamie:I think it comes out pretty early.
Scott:Well, guess I'm not that crazy then.
Jamie:I I haven't done it. I haven't looked at it in years, be honest with you.
Scott:Really? You didn't look at it all last year.
Jamie:Not really.
Scott:It wasn't important. But, like, we
Jamie:we Dom's team wasn't ranked.
Scott:It doesn't Listen. We talked about it with we almost opened it with Vollmer when we talked about, like, how the that Rockets team finished, like, second and third in the country the last two years. We talked about it with Eric when he was even, like, talking about how one of his kids' teams was, like, you know, thirtieth in the country or whatever. I know, you know, like, Otto's team, the last three seasons have been top 25, top 20.
Jamie:Mhmm. Right?
Scott:So, like yeah. And so while Otto might not be looking at my I know he's not looking at my hockey rankings.
Jamie:But think a lot of the kids look at it, by the way.
Scott:Yes. But I'm just saying my own my own experience as a coach. And then last year as, like, you know, on the side video coach guy
Jamie:Right. Like a half coach type of coach
Scott:type of thing. Yeah. I I would look at them religiously. And while it's a team game Yeah. And Otto's not going to be, like, the person that's gonna move the needle on whether they move up or down.
Scott:It's a team sport.
Jamie:I see what you're saying.
Scott:But when you get, like when you talk to the parents, it's like it kind of feeds into that mentality of, like, okay. This is a really good team. We got a good thing going. We have to prioritize winning.
Jamie:My kidneys, we
Scott:have to fine. Better. Yeah. Like, there's oh, tryouts are coming up. This is the nineteenth ranked team.
Scott:That's auto teams finished last year nineteenth in the country. And so, like, you know Yeah. It starts feeding into the narrative of, like, I you know, like, bigger, stronger, faster. No question. And then it's like, well
Jamie:It does.
Scott:Does my my kid my okay. Yes. They know what the ranking is, but are they going through that same mental, you know, gymnastics that we go through on, like, they need to rise to this occasion of being, like, a top 20 team? And, again, I know not all parents are, like, going through that.
Jamie:I think it probably does play into it. I think some kids think about it. Yeah.
Scott:Well yeah. But but I think parents more so. And then it's like, you know, you have this thing. Or maybe you're a parent whose kid is, like, trying out for a team that's higher ranked. Or maybe you haven't even thought about rankings yet.
Scott:Right? But at some point, you might be in a position where it's like, I'm gonna try to go and it forget the rankings for a second. Yeah. Even just going from, like, a to double a or double a to, you know, triple a, tier two to tier one. Forget the rankings.
Scott:It's like whatever, you know, the the parent is thinking about that's in their son's best interest or daughter's best interest. Right. It doesn't always align. Right? And then True.
Scott:And then that's where I think things can get pretty dicey.
Jamie:Yeah. Yeah. No. I I think you're right. Listen.
Jamie:I I think that sometimes we all need to take a step back and remember, like, why we're doing this. Right?
Scott:Right.
Jamie:I mean, most of our kids are not going to the NHL. Right? Most of our kids won't even play in What?
Scott:What? I know. What? What? Are you sure about that?
Scott:My kids go to the NHL. Can I tell you something? Wait. When you said that, when I said that, when you said that, eight u at a at a, like, a tournament, I think, talking to a a a father
Jamie:Mhmm.
Scott:Who literally again, the kid was, like, seven or eight years old.
Jamie:Right.
Scott:Probably had a few too many bevies. Ah. But literally said to me
Jamie:And admitted.
Scott:And literally said to me, he's like, you know, my son. He's like he says something along the lines like he's like, he reminds me of Wayne Gretzky. What? I swear to god. He he compared those those might not have been those but he made a comparison between his son and Wayne Gretzky.
Scott:And I was like, no. No. No. No. No.
Scott:No. Your son is not
Jamie:no. Mean,
Scott:any event, not actually catch
Jamie:I think that's, like, illegal.
Scott:Like, you're not
Jamie:allowed to do that. Like, the hockey police should be knocking on the dude's door and be like, listen, guy. We heard you say something and now you're gonna have to come with us.
Scott:Right.
Jamie:Like, that's listen. You know, listen. At at the end of the day, if if your kid takes something away from this sport. Yeah. Right?
Jamie:Like, we've talked about this before. How to be a better dad, how to be a better friend, how to be a better, you know, businessman, how to be a better whatever.
Scott:Right.
Jamie:You know? Then then you're shaping your kid.
Scott:Right.
Jamie:Right? That's essentially what we're doing. You know? And teaching them life skills that hopefully they then take out into the world and, you know, and and become a decent human being.
Scott:Right. So so what so what what like, so what are some of the conversations that that maybe you got some stories that come to mind where, like, you're talking to parents? Like, that one just kinda bubbled up real quick. Right. Like, have you had similar conversations again?
Scott:Because we wanna wanna we want to bring these these, like, you know, conversations that a lot of us have, like, one on one kind of to the, like, the the broader audience. But, like, in terms of parents, like, insecurities, parents, like
Jamie:Right.
Scott:Overly concerned about this. Yeah. Like, can do you feel like you have, I mean, have you had conversations with parents that were just, like, like, unnecessarily
Jamie:like, they're just so far off base of, like, where their kid is and where they are in reality? Is that
Scott:what you mean? That that it could be that. Or, like, there you know, there's a parent that, you know, at at a young age Mhmm. Is Right. Thinks their kids will be grad school.
Scott:Pushing, like, way too hard for
Jamie:yeah. I mean, I've I think we've all seen it. Right? I I'm sure you have too. Right?
Scott:No. Of course I have. I'm just curious, like, from your experience, like, if there's anything that that that came up you. Story? Yeah.
Scott:It doesn't have to be a story.
Jamie:Listen. I think
Scott:I'll give you an here's another example
Jamie:right here comes up
Scott:for me. Right? So it's like so at some point along the way, we learned about, like, you know, skates that were happening with, like they were semi private, like, lessons. Right? And, like, we're talking about six, seven, eight year olds.
Scott:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you get wind that like these kids are like doing these like before school skates or these extra skates before practice with like, you know, a skating coach. And you're like, wait.
Scott:Oh, I didn't know if
Jamie:that I supposed to be doing that too?
Scott:I be doing that? Oh. Yeah. And this is not something that, you know, my son necessarily ever asked for. At some point, it became different when you start to learn the landscape more.
Jamie:True. True.
Scott:But there was a moment in time where it's like you start learning about like what other people are doing and you're like,
Jamie:oh, You don't know what you don't What do know?
Scott:Why are I not why am I not invited? Why did I why did that person not include me? What do I gotta do, you know, different? Otto, we gotta start doing this, that, and the next. Now I'm not saying I went so we ended up Yeah.
Scott:Find like, so we pushed in retrospect. Right. Got too hard in some places. Right. But when we learned and when I say we, my wife and I, when we learned when we saw the writing on the wall, like, we backed off, like, ultimately.
Scott:So we tried it on for size Right. Saw how it went down, and then there's
Jamie:one taking notes. Sorry.
Scott:No. It's all good. So one thing stuck since since, like, maybe, like, two years ago. He's consistently skated Thursday mornings before school Mhmm. With a skills coach.
Scott:And that's been, like, the one thing that I can say we've done pretty regularly for the last two years. Right. But, you know, like, over the summer, we take a break and blah blah blah. But there's, like, another example of, like, you know, a way that I think, you know, parents can then think to themselves, oh my god.
Jamie:Yeah. So, you know, it's pretty funny. When you look back on
Scott:it Yeah.
Jamie:Like, those, like, those power skates the kids are doing, like, at a young age and all that stuff, you get so roped into it so quickly.
Scott:Yeah.
Jamie:And then you're you immediately fall into that, like, keeping up with the Joneses type thing.
Scott:Right.
Jamie:You know? I mean, you know, you know, and it's funny. When you look back at it, like, I remember being, like, bent out of shape that, like, my kid wasn't asked to play on, like, a tournament team. It's so fucking stupid.
Scott:You you got bent out
Jamie:of shape. Yeah. And it's so and and and, obviously, once I was in it after a couple years, I was like, wow. This shit is so insignificant.
Scott:So insignificant.
Jamie:Like, it's so dumb. And yet, you get so and you don't know what you don't you don't know what you don't know until you know it. Right? Yep. So, you know, it's it's it's so dumb, Scott, and it's so insignificant, and it means nothing.
Jamie:And in my opinion, for new parents listening to this, you should not get wrapped up in that. You should not be offended if your kid doesn't get asked to play on a certain a certain team, whether it's a spring team, or whether they didn't get asked to come to a certain ID skate, or whether it's I don't know, your coach is looking for new prospects to recruit for your team, and your kid didn't get asked to come to that skate. In my opinion, all these kids blossom at different ages and different levels, and all it is is a headache. It's just a headache, and it's something that you will spend time pining over. And it's so unnecessary.
Scott:Yeah.
Jamie:Like, it's so unnecessary.
Scott:Yeah. We were talking before we even started recording of, like, brick, for example, like, brick tournament. And, like, that's another thing where, like, parents, you know, some of them, like, just they they they have to have it, like, and will do anything. Like, try out for multiple, like, charters, you know, blah blah blah. But that's, like, another example of, like like, there are plenty of kids that are ready for it, that the parents have the, like, financial, like, capacity
Jamie:I think to the kid mentally is ready for it.
Scott:It's just like, it's a natural fit. But then you start seeing some people that are trying to put square pegs in round holes. And like, you don't have to overload this kid, like, when he's, what, like, nine. Yeah. You know, just to make this one tournament that Yeah.
Scott:And, like, it's great if you make it. I was Sure.
Jamie:It's great if you
Scott:make it. But if you don't
Jamie:But if get not red
Scott:plenty of players that don't. And was talking Tons to of by complete coincidence this past weekend, we're at this, like, this lake, whatever.
Jamie:Right.
Scott:And, this one guy was doing dives off, like, the high diving board, he was, like, legit. Like, could do some things. Deal? Yeah. And Otto has been practicing, like, his backflips and his, like, whatever, his aerial stuff.
Jamie:Right.
Scott:And and the guy was giving Otto encouragement because he wanted Otto wanted to try to do a backflip off of, like, this, like, 15 foot, like, diving board.
Jamie:Sorry. I'm thinking about a movie. You said encouragement. Encouragement. Yes.
Scott:Did like another movie? Vince Vaughn. What is it? It's couples retreat.
Jamie:Oh. Encouragement. Yes.
Scott:Is it on Hank's area? Yeah. That his name?
Jamie:I think
Scott:it is. Yeah.
Jamie:Totally. Encouragement. Yes. Sorry. Sorry.
Jamie:Sorry. Sorry.
Scott:Gotta continue.
Jamie:My bad.
Scott:And, and so it it turns out this guy was also, like, is currently a hockey coach. Nice. And, and he was telling like, I after he talked to Otto, I started like, Otto introduced me or he came up and said hello. And I was talking to him and he was he grew up in Jersey. Right.
Scott:And he ultimately went on to play I forget what his, like, youth journey was. Right. But he's, like, only 30 now, so he's still, like, on the younger side of things. Yeah. But he was sharing with me, like, you know, he's he just wanted to play college hockey.
Scott:Right. And he played at, like, a d three school for two years.
Jamie:Oh, is that right? He transferred?
Scott:And then he transferred to a d one school Interesting. When he got to the d one school.
Jamie:Oh, I didn't know that. Do you know the d three school? I'm just curious.
Scott:I forget. That's alright. I just curious. No. I forget.
Jamie:That's
Scott:alright. But then he ended up transferring to a d one school.
Jamie:Heavy d one school.
Scott:Heavy d one. Yeah. And then he then was told to play club, I think, at that school.
Jamie:Oh, is
Scott:that right? To ultimately prove himself. And and, like, his words were kinda like, you know, listen. He's like, I was like a fourth line goon.
Jamie:Okay.
Scott:He's like, but I did it. And I loved every second of it.
Jamie:I made it.
Scott:And he made it. And I said, you know, like, that story is Yeah. Yeah. Is That tremendous because it's Good for him. You know, you don't always have to be that highlight key.
Jamie:No. You don't.
Scott:You know? Yeah. And and I think I said this on a recent podcast, you know, just like that comparison is the thief of all joy. You know? And it's hard for kids to really kind of, like, own or not own it, but, like, to understand that.
Scott:But everyone, you know, you're looking around comparing yourself to Yeah. Others. Yeah. And then you're not you're not focusing on your own path. No.
Scott:And you think you should be somewhere else when you're supposed to be exactly where you are. Yeah. And just staying the course and just trying to
Jamie:get on yourself.
Scott:Better a day at a time
Jamie:Yeah.
Scott:A day at a time. Sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. Yeah. And, you know, for the younger age groups, that's hard. Now I no.
Scott:But then you start you know, Dom, at this point, right, like, he's starting to take ownership I for his journey. Yeah. He doesn't necessarily Yeah. You know, those things are kinda coming into focus for him on his own without mom or dad having to
Jamie:Which is nice.
Scott:Which is nice.
Jamie:Really nice. Yeah. It's nice to see him doing and not having to remind him or tell
Scott:him to do stuff. So Yeah. With It's cool. So with the season like, you were just mentioning, the season is is is near. Oh, yeah.
Scott:People are gearing up. So it's like, what is success? Like, do have you even thought about this? Like, last year was a big season for him when
Jamie:It was a one.
Scott:Played played played at a lower level Mhmm. But
Jamie:Went down.
Scott:But excelled.
Jamie:Did well.
Scott:So have Kinda came back a little bit. Have you guys talked at all about kind of, like, whether what success looks like for this season, what the goals look like? Do you have certain ideas about what it should be compared to what his ideas?
Jamie:So I'm not putting I'm not saying I'm I'm not putting, like, numbers or pressure on him right now or that. I'm I'm actually not saying a thing about it.
Scott:Yep. Listen. He wants to lead the
Jamie:league in scoring again. So if it happens, great.
Scott:Yep.
Jamie:Right? I have not said anything to him because I don't wanna put pressure on him. I want I wanna see what a hockey season looks like where he has no pressure from, like, any outside, you know, entities.
Scott:Right.
Jamie:Like, I wanna see what that looks like. I wanna see because in my opinion, the reason that he had an issue when we were at the Rockets is because he had a truckload of pressure.
Scott:Truckload of pressure.
Jamie:From every which way.
Scott:Not not just from at home, but also Everywhere. Coaching staff
Jamie:In the locker room. Peers. Coaching staff, playing on a very high level team. I think there's this outside pressure, which is one of the reasons why we took him down from AAA down, right? One of reasons why we went local, very close to the house, eleven minutes away.
Scott:Is that all it is?
Jamie:Yeah.
Scott:Oh, So close.
Jamie:So nice.
Scott:So nice.
Jamie:I had to drive, like, an hour each way, an hour plus each way. It's so nice. You know, so I'm curious to see so the the pressure some of the pressure came off immediately
Scott:Yeah.
Jamie:When when we went down from A A A, But other pressures popped up, right, knowing that some of his teammates or his new teammates that knew he was a AAA player expected a lot out of him. And the first couple of games, I think I've said on this podcast, didn't go so hot. He didn't know where kinda he belonged. He wasn't really sure how he was gonna fit in. It took him a couple games to figure it out.
Jamie:Then once he figured it out, it went, and the pressure disappeared in that respect. So I'm but I'm so as far as, like, you know, what the season looks like to me this year, I'm sure he has stuff in his head. Yep. I'm sure like I said, he wants to leave the league in scoring, which is great, and he said that to me. I don't I I try not to talk about
Scott:it Yeah. To be honest with you.
Jamie:And I just wanna see what he because, again, I I think what I start saying, I think the pressure got him at the Rockets, and he just crumbled. He crumbled to the point where and listen, his brain was obviously not as mature. So he's gotten better in that respect, but he has ADHD. So generally, an ADHD child, their brains are not as developed as their peers. So generally, think it's like two to three years behind mentally, right?
Jamie:So that may have had something to do with it. So he's a different kid now, okay? But he couldn't take the pressure, in my opinion.
Scott:Right.
Jamie:I think there's a lot of pressure to the point where and I want to have a psychologist on one day. I actually asked him this. I think it was so much pressure that it literally changed his stride.
Scott:You mentioned that. Yeah, man. You would tell me how, like crazy. You're like, so It's crazy, Scott. When you talk to me about hockey and Dom's journey Crazy.
Scott:And you would tell me the level of, like, hockey that they were playing. So clearly Yeah. There there was a point where that wasn't the case, and Dom was, like, you know, you know, a higher performing player on the team.
Jamie:The first he was.
Scott:And then you said to me, you're like
Jamie:The first year.
Scott:You're like, I don't get it. But, like, he Something happened. Is having he can't skate like he used to skate. Like, how does that even make sense? Is he growing?
Scott:Are his legs longer? And then you're like, he can't turn to the right. And I was like, what do you mean? I don't even I can't even I can't understand.
Jamie:To this day, if you bring my wife in here and ask her, like, the conversations we were having that year, like, I I remember I remember sitting in bed with her and be like, Nancy, why can't he turn to the right anymore? Like, he can't turn. He cannot turn to the right. Now listen. He's a righty, so, obviously, his left hand turn was always better.
Jamie:Right?
Scott:Right.
Jamie:Yeah. Yeah.
Scott:Yeah. So, obviously A
Jamie:100%. Right. Okay. With every hockey player. Right?
Jamie:So so if you're righty, obviously, the other side. Right? Okay. So so his right hand turn was always not as crisp. Yep.
Jamie:But it it was never not there. Like, I remember I remember Scott, I remember he used to used to go into the he was playing right wing. And when he would bring the puck down low and try to peel out of it toward the boards, on a right hand turn toward the boards, he literally couldn't do it, and he realized that he couldn't do it. So now all of sudden, insecurities start popping in your head.
Scott:Yes.
Jamie:He knows he was blowing an edge Yeah. When he went to do that. So then he started stopping on his left foot, and he would hockey stop with his left foot in the corner.
Scott:Facing the boards.
Jamie:Facing the boards, and then you're just toast.
Scott:You can't stop back of the play.
Jamie:And then you're just done. And then it's over because you have no speed. Obviously, the defenseman has speed.
Scott:You don't
Jamie:know happening. Has speed. You know what's happening because you're not facing the right way. And he would just bury himself. So he knew that was happening.
Jamie:So he was trying to compensate for the fact that he couldn't turn to the right, and it just got worse and worse. And I remember saying to him, Dominic, why can't you turn to the right? Why can't you do it? I've seen you do it a million times. Why can't you do it?
Jamie:And his answer was, I don't know, dad. I don't know. Know. I just don't know. And he may not have known.
Jamie:I don't
Scott:know. No.
Jamie:He had no answer for me, Scott. Right. And and and I kept telling Nancy, like, Nancy, like, How does your stride literally break down? He was a beautiful skater, and he literally looked like the clunkiest kid out there.
Scott:Unbelievable.
Jamie:And he still has a little bit of it too, by the way. Dominic is still I mean, it got to the point where he developed physical tics, like body movements, like an arm tic. Yeah,
Scott:you would tell me sometime about some of that stuff. You think not think, no, but
Jamie:I think it's all anxiety.
Scott:You think stress is crazy thing.
Jamie:I watched it cripple my child for an entire season.
Scott:That must have been so awful.
Jamie:Dude, as a parent, you don't know at the time. Right? And I thought maybe it had something to do with it, but we thought he had Tourette's, which he still may have a I'm not sure if so right now, all gone.
Scott:It's all gone? All gone. That is fucking wild.
Jamie:We went to, like, Tourette's doctors. Like, dude, you have no idea. This shit was it was the worst fucking hockey season in my entire life. Like, pressure and that's but the stress as a parent, not knowing what's wrong with your kid and not knowing how to fix it. I mean, I was taking him to a to, like, an ADHD psychologist in the city, like, every Monday.
Scott:I remember that.
Jamie:It was it was nuts. I mean so, I mean, I have a video, which I tell me if I showed you or not. I have a video of Dominic after after our first season with the Rockets when he started to show signs of it. Yeah. Okay?
Jamie:And it was in spring league. Right? And he literally would start, like, scraping the ice.
Scott:With what? His stick? With hand.
Jamie:It got to the point where, like, he literally would have to, like, reach down and, like, scrape the ice with his hand.
Scott:Before a face off?
Jamie:Before a face off, during play. No. I have videos of him back checking.
Scott:Like, not just he didn't know what to do?
Jamie:Back checking and literally having to put his hand down on
Scott:the ice and touch the ice. That's unbelievable. Videos of him
Jamie:before a face off. He's playing right wing. He has to take his glove off and, like, scrape the ice
Scott:I mean, brush the ice. Shit was nuts.
Jamie:She was shit was nuts. And in my opinion, it is all anxiety.
Scott:All anxiety?
Jamie:All anxiety.
Scott:Yeah. Wow.
Jamie:So Dom's not on, but he's
Scott:also medicated for it. That's, like, level.
Jamie:Frightening. Was frightening. And listen, I'm sure his ADHD has something to do with that. I'm sure that there is from reading, I think there's a part of ADHD that opens the door for that stuff. So that's when Nancy and I knew that he needed to take a step back and needed to do something different because the situation was I can't even imagine what it would have looked like if we had stayed there.
Jamie:And it's unfortunate because, you know, because
Scott:But that was well, you you you you never, that was not a consideration What was it? For you What? To stay there. Like, that point. Like, there's there was not there was not one person that was thinking, like, wow.
Scott:We should try to eke this out for another year. Hopefully, it'll turn around.
Jamie:So next time we have Vomer on here, next time we have Chris on here, ask him. I I remember coming to him when we it's funny. You mentioned Merrimack last last episode.
Scott:Right? So My my lack of understanding where
Jamie:it is. That's alright. Listen. Easy. No.
Jamie:No. It's a very simple mistake. Right? Yeah. New Hampshire, Massachusetts is all the same shit when you go up there.
Jamie:But so we're playing at the Middlesex Islander showcase
Scott:Yeah.
Jamie:Up there. And I remember so I obviously I was part of putting the team together, so I had to had our helmet stickers made. Yeah. Okay? And I had them in Dom's hockey bag.
Jamie:Those of you who don't know, we have different helmet stickers than the regular Rockets. We had the RSG Academy shield. So I had them made from a sticker maker. We wanted to be different than your regular rockets team, so we had a different sticker on our helmet. Because we were an academy team, so we wanted to stand out.
Jamie:So we have different stickers. So I had them in Dom's hockey bag. I remember and it was one of our last showcase of the year Mhmm. Before the THF playoffs.
Scott:Okay. Okay?
Jamie:And I remember going I remember watching him over the weekend, and I remember the last game. I I went I went down into Dom's into the locker
Scott:room. Yeah.
Jamie:I took the stickers out of Dom's bag, and I put them in Ryan's bag.
Scott:And that was it.
Jamie:And I went over to Chris, I'm like, listen. I love you to death. I'm like, but we're not gonna be here next year.
Scott:Jeez. Yeah. He's like, stop talking.
Jamie:He's like, you're talking stupid. He even said to me, he says, why is Jamie talking stupid? I'm like, Chris, I'm like I looked at him. I'm like
Scott:Not happening. It's not gonna happen. Mike's I'm like, I love you to
Jamie:death, but I I can't
Scott:Can't do it.
Jamie:Can't. It's just you know? Like, this journey's been awesome putting this team together. It's been a fucking blast. And I love to death.
Jamie:You know, he's awesome. But I I was like, listen. We're we're not gonna be part of this next year. We can't he can't. My kid was falling apart.
Scott:He wasn't
Jamie:falling apart. I I had to make a change for him.
Scott:Well, let me ask you.
Jamie:For him.
Scott:Just out of curiosity, if you told him you guys were going back there next year, would if he'd been on would he have been on board with it? Do you think?
Jamie:Yeah. Because he they didn't really know. They this they they they knew a little. What do mean they?
Scott:Who's they?
Jamie:Like, a a handful of the parents knew.
Scott:No. But I'm
Jamie:know.
Scott:I'm talking about, no, Dom specific like, if you ask Dominic and say, hey, Dom. Oh. Do you wanna go back next year? Would he he would not he would Dominic didn't wanna leave. He did not want
Jamie:to leave. He was ripping pissed when I pulled him out of
Scott:there. Despite all these challenges, despite the fact that he was going through all this on ice, all
Jamie:this stuff. So we talk about pressure, right, on these kids. Right? Dominic was straight up embarrassed that he was being pulled off a very high level AAA team. He was embarrassed even going to where we are now.
Jamie:He was embarrassed of having to come down from AAA and play at a lower tier two. He was so angry with me, Scott. You have no idea. So angry. Jesus.
Jamie:It took him months to, like, be okay with it.
Scott:Well, you know
Jamie:And then he realized that it was good for him.
Scott:Right. Well well, once once you got past, like, the initial, like like, uncertainty, the fear of the unknown.
Jamie:Yeah.
Scott:But so as you say all of this, clearly, in your case, like, the the signs, the writing on the wall couldn't have been any clearer that something's not working. Like, I can't imagine something. So but first and foremost, what came to my mind as you were saying that was, like, Dom has something, a stick to itiveness, a resiliency. The fact that he was willing and wanted to continue down that path despite
Jamie:he was willing, but
Scott:What do you mean? You said he wanted to stay.
Jamie:Oh. Oh, I see. I thought he'd been willing to go down No.
Scott:No. No. I'm talking no. I'm talking about his willingness to stay because all this adversity Yeah. He was like, no.
Scott:You you believe he would still wanna stay. Or he did say he wanted to stay. He didn't wanna leave. Dude, I mean
Jamie:When I
Scott:told him that we weren't going to
Jamie:tryouts, he was
Scott:I mean, there's a certain level of mental toughness, I would think, that I mean
Jamie:Listen. It was not No?
Scott:Or or am I off the mark on that?
Jamie:Listen. Of course, he he he didn't wanna leave. You know, because and listen. We talk about, like, you know, identity.
Scott:Yeah. We talk about player Player identity. Yeah. Right. Exactly.
Jamie:So he he felt like he didn't he didn't wanna leave. It was it was it was something, obviously, in him. You know, he was he did not wanna leave. He he was a rocket, and he was a high level rocket, and he was not okay with not being that
Scott:Right.
Jamie:At the at that time.
Scott:So let me so let me ask you this.
Jamie:Even if it was to his detriment, because if he had stayed there, it would have not gone well.
Scott:No. I can't it doesn't sound like it would
Jamie:have gone. If it was to his detriment, he would have
Scott:stayed. Wow.
Jamie:Just for the identity part. Right. I'm talking about identity. Player identity of parent.
Scott:That's like that's like a situation That's
Jamie:my opinion.
Scott:Where you have to, like, kinda save the kid from themselves. Correct. And and I remember when we talked earlier about, like, all of the, like, the skates with the private coaches and the skills work and the blah blah blah blah blah blah. And I would talk to some parents about that, those that were, like, in my opinion, heavily overdoing it. Yeah.
Scott:And, you know, I forget where I get the quote from or the saying from or whatever, and I'm I'm sure plenty of people have heard something similar. But I would tell, like, the parent. I'd be like, you know, if your kid, you know, wanted to eat Reese's peanut butter cups for breakfast,
Jamie:would you let them?
Scott:Yeah. And it's like, just because they want more hot Doesn't
Jamie:mean you give it to them.
Scott:They want the thing. May just because they wanna be on the ice every waking moment, does that mean that's something that you should do? Like, sometimes you have to protect the kids from themselves. And there's there's plenty of times where, like, you know, we all I think we talk maybe more
Jamie:Mhmm.
Scott:About pushing kids too much, and we haven't talked too much about kids that want it more than what's maybe good for them. But there is that in in spades where there's kids that just, you know, can't stop, won't stop, and that that can maybe be even more difficult. Because it's one thing if you're pushing your kid hard and you see your kid not wanting to do it and there's friction.
Jamie:Right.
Scott:If your kid wants more ice time, they're trying to get better and you give it to them, you know, that seems
Jamie:like an easy match.
Scott:But then you also have to think about, like, at what costs. And I'm not talking about financial costs, but there's, like, you know, social, you know, there's, like, what whatever other things might Yeah. You know, there's time away from the family. You know, Ballmer was talking about he hadn't seen his daughter in three weeks because he's giving his kid more hockey up in Toronto. Yeah.
Scott:Yeah. So there's costs associated with that also.
Jamie:Listen. Yeah. No question about it. A delicate topic to try to, me, having to save him from himself. I don't if that's you know?
Jamie:So I guess it's sort of save him from himself. Right? It it would it would have not gone well.
Scott:And there's no chance that was gonna happen. He was not gonna stay there.
Jamie:I wasn't letting him stay there.
Scott:Obviously.
Jamie:Yeah. Obviously. I was not letting him. You know, Dominic's gonna be a late bloomer in my opinion.
Scott:And and that's another thing that's come up a few times in these like, maybe not as we've talked about it.
Jamie:But, like tons of encouragement too, and he he cannot be, like, shit on.
Scott:Right.
Jamie:Like, that doesn't work for my kid. Right. Yeah.
Scott:And and so that that that there's a few things there.
Jamie:One That's
Scott:something we changed on this. Being being a late bloomer
Jamie:Yeah.
Scott:Is is something that there's plenty of them out there.
Jamie:And I mean mentally.
Scott:No. Okay. Mentally, physically, whatever it is Or physically too. Or
Jamie:mentally just from really working on a
Scott:skills perspective.
Jamie:Yeah.
Scott:Right? I mean, we we we Yeah. We obviously live in a highlight world. We've talked about that, and it's easy to see, like, my kid is not there yet. But there's there's plenty of examples of late bloomers, but they don't necessarily get the same type of accolades and, like, whatever along the way.
Jamie:No. They get it at the end.
Scott:They get it at the end. Yeah. But that's like it's like a marathon, not a sprint type of thinking.
Jamie:A 100%.
Scott:Right? And that's something that I think a lot of people can lose sight of.
Jamie:The big picture.
Scott:The big picture. Right? But I what I wanted to just circle back to when you're talking about Dom and, like, the the player identity, the parent identity, then obviously, like, you worked through it. Dom had a great season. Ultimately Better.
Scott:In in so many ways in so many ways, there was, like, a slowing down of things.
Jamie:Yes. You know, we we got back to kinda, like, basics, if you will. You know what I mean? Like, to be totally honest with you, I just wanted him to start having fun again.
Scott:Right.
Jamie:Because he was Dominic would come off the ice that last year, and he'd be a fucking mess.
Scott:Right.
Jamie:He'd be basket case.
Scott:Right.
Jamie:Because and he and he he listen. Ultimately, he packed it in. Like, he god. You were gonna ask me something. Go ahead.
Scott:When you when you said packed it in, you're not you're talking about like, during games. And
Jamie:Yes. You know, he he realized he because I would say to him, like, what is wrong with your stride? Like, why why can't you skate all of a sudden? Because I was dumbfounded.
Scott:Right.
Jamie:Right? Like, I and and in retrospect, I should not have been saying that because it obviously made him aware of it.
Scott:Right? He it's not that
Jamie:he didn't know. He knew. He knew he couldn't turn to the right all of a sudden.
Scott:But you're you're dumping on him.
Jamie:I was saying why can't you turn to the what like what because I wanted to fix fix it.
Scott:What's wrong with you? Right. Right? Like, that's ultimately the message you're sending to me.
Jamie:All I wanted to do was fucking fix it.
Scott:That's all
Jamie:I wanna do is fix it. Like, tell me what's wrong with you so we can go fix Like, I'll bring you to a skinny coach and I'll have him you'll do fucking right hand turns for three hours. I don't give a shit. Yeah. Like, tell me what we can do to to help you.
Scott:Right.
Jamie:You know? And and he would Scott, he would to this day
Scott:I don't know. Don't know.
Jamie:I don't know.
Scott:I don't know. So so here's so, like, what I and I feel like I'm jumping around a little bit, but part of what I wanted to kinda tease out here was, like, we talk about a lot of stress. The warning signs were very big for you. Looking back. Looking back.
Scott:Well, I mean but there are I'm sure there's plenty of examples of parents that that might be experiencing Oh, yeah. Less less less significant, like, changes.
Jamie:If you look through, you can see them.
Scott:So kind of a so it sounds to me like Yeah. If if you're noticing perhaps and if you're noticing changes that are like, maybe you see think your kid's taking a few steps back
Jamie:Right.
Scott:Or whatever. One of the things that you might wanna ask yourself as a parent, am I putting too much stress on this kid? Correct. And I'll give you something anecdote. Like, on my
Jamie:I think most of us do, by the way.
Scott:Most. So here's here's, like, from my this is real for me. So the end of last season was difficult. Well, you know, last season was difficult for Otto in some ways. Was asked back, ultimately didn't want to go back when we had to make the decision.
Jamie:Right. Oh, he didn't want to go?
Scott:He also didn't want to go.
Jamie:Oh, interesting. Okay. I didn't realize that. I know he didn't go back. I didn't realize that was why.
Scott:No. I well, I I didn't want him to go back because I didn't want there's a few reasons. Look. If he was thriving on that team and it like, I I needed to continue to make a long commute, would I have done it? Yes.
Scott:Yeah. But I like, I wasn't going to make that commute and Right. You know, for for another potentially not good situation. I wasn't gonna go through another year of the same stuff.
Jamie:Understood.
Scott:And Yep. And not like any of it was that egregious because it wasn't, but it just wasn't an overwhelmingly positive experience. And to have something that was not positive and commit so much of my own time and my family's time, like, like, the math didn't just tie out for us. But what I was gonna say was, so after so, okay. We make the change.
Scott:Stay we're going we're playing closer to home. Right. Going from tier one to tier two.
Jamie:Right.
Scott:And so now some time's gone by. He said some time to reflect. We're gearing. We're all gearing up for the hockey season again. And I think he has some regret about that decision.
Jamie:About going down.
Scott:Yes. And part of what I wanted to share was that I've also been intentional about not pushing, especially this summer. I knew he wants to do mountain biking. I know he wants to do all those things. Yeah.
Jamie:And I would go do other stuff.
Scott:I said, listen. You wanna go to hockey camp for a month
Jamie:with a buddy of yours?
Scott:He's like, yeah. Let's go. Yeah. But for the most part
Jamie:Let him
Scott:take a kid. He's been I let him be be a kid. Yeah. And there was a point earlier, like, in the summer where my wife was, like, starting to question whether or not Otto's interest in hockey was way way.
Jamie:I remember you said that to me.
Scott:I was like comment to was like, I I You're
Jamie:like, don't you know I have a podcast about this? That's not an option. Like,
Scott:that doesn't work for me right now.
Jamie:No. I'm joking.
Scott:No. No. Well, I mean, that's true. I mean, he's actually never gonna be allowed to quit. But so so Orly made these comments, and, like, I didn't think that was the case.
Scott:Right. And but I you know, listen. You know? She she's she's her his parent too, too, and she might be picking on things that I'm not picking up on.
Jamie:Then I thought
Scott:to myself, well, maybe I just don't wanna see some writing on the wall. I was like, I don't think that's the case.
Jamie:Fair. But I understand you're thinking about it. Yeah. Yeah. I get I get the fact that you're actually questioning it.
Scott:Makes sense. I literally started to question it.
Jamie:What's wrong with that?
Scott:And then so recently, like, so we've been totally off the hockey gas in terms of, like, talking to him about it. Although he like, he's gone to do some hockey things, but it hasn't been, like, focal point.
Jamie:You haven't been, like, immersed in it. It's been your friends.
Scott:Go swimming. Go biking.
Jamie:Which is probably the right thing to do, by the way.
Scott:Good. And and now now he's starting to talk about how badly he
Jamie:wants to play.
Scott:He wants to play, how he wants to move up Isn't it funny how works? Goals. Like, you know, he's like you know, he he mentions playing d one and all this other stuff.
Jamie:Isn't it funny how that works?
Scott:So this is a small sample size. Yeah. But I think the takeaway between my wife and I were like, we've made it less of a focus. We haven't pushed it. It hasn't been like And
Jamie:it's comforting.
Scott:On a great team. Organically. You have to, like, you know, keep up, like, a certain level. It's like, just go do you, and then hockey will come, and he'll get started again. And now look at that.
Scott:He's you know, look. I don't know if we had kept pushing on, like, the hockey gas over the summer if, you know, he would have said something similar. Maybe. My hunch is probably not considering. He needed a break both mentally and physically Probably.
Scott:From taking hockey seriously.
Jamie:Yeah. Probably.
Scott:I think that's the bottom line. Like It seems like it worked
Jamie:And I think it's working. Yeah.
Scott:So so now though, unlike so now we're about to start our first tier two season. Yeah. And I think he he's similar he's expressed similar things like, you know, he was at a camp and, you know, whatever. He's like, he's people are probably asking him, you know, what team are you on? And now he's going through this process of like, well, I was tier one.
Scott:Now I'm tier two. Right. And, like, how that makes him feel. And, you know, he has to work through some discomfort about, you know, being able to probably brag a little bit about on the teams that he's been on to now being like, I'm here. Right.
Jamie:And Dominic went through
Scott:that too. Right. And so part of our process like, listen. Just because you're playing in a, you know, like, different level, it doesn't mean it's not good for you.
Jamie:That's right.
Scott:You know?
Jamie:But they don't see that because they're too young.
Scott:Not immediately.
Jamie:No. No. Not immediately. But
Scott:we're we're at that process for us where, like, he's he's he sees the transition. Like, it's the the rubber's meeting the road now. And he I think he's now really starting to process it and what it means.
Jamie:And you can see when the light bulb goes off.
Scott:And and he's yeah.
Jamie:So It's cool when it when it happens. Dominic went through a very similar period where he was pissed off about it.
Scott:Yeah.
Jamie:And he was embarrassed. And then, like you said, the the light bulb goes off, and he just kinda goes, oh, like, I could see I see why this is gonna be good for me.
Scott:Right.
Jamie:It takes time. Right. Sometimes they're super emotional, man. We talk about you know, especially with my kid, he when he's emotional, he just doesn't think straight.
Scott:Right.
Jamie:Right? Which most of us are like.
Scott:I don't think straight when I'm emotional.
Jamie:Yeah. Exactly. Right? Likewise. So, you know, so it's, I think that it's good when they recognize it and then they can kind of make peace with it and move on.
Jamie:And listen, just because you come down a level doesn't mean you're not going go back
Scott:Well, that's what I so one of the things that I was
Jamie:saying And even if you don't go back up, it doesn't mean you're not gonna play in college. It doesn't doesn't mean you won't ever make it to the NHL. Or whatever your dream is, just keep shooting for it.
Scott:Well, that's I was saying this to Orly earlier today. I said, know, because Otto had mentioned something, and I said to, Orly, I said, look. Back up for a second. So Otto talks like, there's this great program out there called athlete to athlete. And I say mention this to me.
Scott:I say it's great only because Otto's had a good experience. Yeah. I don't like, you know, I'm not a part of the conversation, but, basically, Otto talks like a d one hockey player
Jamie:Right.
Scott:Like like, once a week.
Jamie:He talks to a d one hockey player.
Scott:Yeah. Yeah. They get they have, like, a
Jamie:Do I see the commercial, by the way,
Scott:of a Princeton kid talking about this? Is that what that is? So we we've done that.
Jamie:I've seen that. Princeton hockey player, no doubt.
Scott:Right? I think I've seen that, like, on Instagram or something.
Jamie:Okay. So I alright. So that's that's the one you're talking about. Right?
Scott:I'm pretty sure.
Jamie:Got it.
Scott:So that kid who, who's playing d one now, he didn't start playing hockey seriously until he was 10. He before that, he had played lacrosse.
Jamie:He had
Scott:played some ice hockey, but he didn't play seriously until he was 10. Right. And so Right. Right. Right.
Scott:And so that's what made me think of this. Right. And that was I said to Orly, said, listen. Matt, you know, Otto knows what, you know, his you know, that you know, he played at a higher level before. But imagine, like, he just started playing today.
Scott:The pass is in the past. There's nothing that you can do about that. But if yours if this is your jumping off point, if if tomorrow is day one in your hockey journey and this is your jumping off point, like, there's plenty of room to move up. You know? Like, I think in his mind, he might think that because he went, like, high to low Right.
Scott:That, like, going from low to high is maybe next to impossible when, in fact, it happens all the time. All the time. And if you just kind of like reframe that and be like, listen. Today's a brand new day. Plenty of kids are jump are jumping off at a double eight point that go on to play.
Scott:You know? So Happens all over the place. So that's just a matter of, like, you know, putting some maturity on his end. Sure. Yeah.
Scott:You know, the it's it's maybe just, like, kind of reframing this for him might be part of the equation to help him adjust. But I at the end of the day, I'm not even concerned about it. I'm I feel as if I'm optimistic he'll have a good season. I'm optimistic he'll
Jamie:be think so.
Scott:Like, you know, an important part of the team.
Jamie:I would
Scott:think that he will improve in some areas where he just maybe didn't have enough time and space to improve on last year or Sure. Like special teams get enough PT, whatever it might be. So I I I mean
Jamie:It'll build his confidence, Yeah. I You should be. And and it's funny too because, you know, we started out kind of doing parent identity, player identity. I think we've focused a lot on player identity in this conversation. But the funny part about it is I think the parent identity piece of it where you feel like your kid has to be good all the time and has to be on all the time I think puts pressure on the kid and then the kid realizes that the player identity thing is a real thing or he feels like it's a real thing, whether it is or not, right?
Jamie:And then that puts more pressure on them. And I think, listen, I think at these young ages Yep. I think a lot of these kids don't know how to handle that.
Scott:No. And and why should they?
Jamie:Some do. Don't get me wrong. But I know But those are mine that can fringe. Yes. Right.
Jamie:It's not the masses. I know mine couldn't.
Scott:Mine couldn't, though. But, like, you talk about, like, you know, the play the parent versus the player. But, like, as you're talking about Dom's experience and you're talking about how his right like, turning to the right, like, fell apart and you just even hearing you talk
Jamie:Yeah.
Scott:Like, this is a, you know, a guy that started a high level team that put blood, sweat, tears into it. Like, your identity in all of this was, like, high level hockey.
Jamie:I suppose.
Scott:No? Yeah. For at least the hockey piece?
Jamie:Yeah. Listen. I was involved in it. Sure.
Scott:You're also you're you're also having to, like, deal with, like, the loss of this and, like, you're a kid who's have who's struggling and dealing with that. And, like, you even said, you're like, what do I need to do to fix this? Yeah. Right? And, like, that, you know, so My personality, like, just help me with the telling and I think that's what, like, you know, parents wanna fix things.
Jamie:I need solutions.
Scott:No. But I I I guess I just wanted to while we might not I I think that it's been pretty obvious that as you've shared and myself as well that, you know, we've had moments in time where, you know, like, we've we've so, like, our identity with hockey has been tied to, like, a higher level
Jamie:Right.
Scott:And and then shifting to a different Yep. You know, a different team, a different level, a different mindset, a different approach to the game Yes. Like, required us also to make some mental adjustments No question. And and look at things with different perspective, different lenses, and when it's not easy to do.
Jamie:You know, I think I just realized that my kid needed a change. So obviously my change came because his had to come, right? And to be totally honest with you, I just took my foot off the gas, like big time.
Scott:But that didn't happen overnight?
Jamie:No. No, no. Like I said, it was the entire season of trying to figure
Scott:out what was going on.
Jamie:No, it didn't. I want to say the stages of it were something along the lines of oh my god, what the fuck is happening? That was stage one.
Scott:That's a technical term, right?
Jamie:Yes. Stage two was, Nancy, how the fuck do we fix this? And stage three was, oh my god, we can't fucking fix this. We started going to doctors. Again, dude, we went like
Scott:But you had some extreme stuff, though.
Jamie:I can't imagine that there's many parents out there that saw what I saw. Listen, I'm sure they're out there.
Scott:No doubt.
Jamie:But listen, I've never it just shows you and we need to have a doctor on here one day. It shows you how powerful stress and anxiety is, especially on kids that are young and immature. But when I look back on it, you start to see stuff, right? When you're in the moment, you're
Scott:just like, oh my god, what is happening? All of sudden, why can't my child skate?
Jamie:And I have to tell you, he's not all the way back yet. He's not all the way back yet. And it's funny, you attribute it to things like, oh, he's growing or he has new skates. But then once you start seeing the more severe things and it's funny too, Scott, because it's funny. I'm trying to would I have done anything differently?
Jamie:Probably in different orders, right? But I can tell you this. I guess in summing it up, I could say this. Stress and anxiety is a real thing for these kids. And they already have it playing this game.
Jamie:Locker rooms are stressful, coaches are stressful, parents are stressful. I think the more you could take off of your kid's shoulders at home, in the car, in the car. Hello?
Scott:Yep. The car, those hours.
Jamie:Fucking car.
Scott:At least yours is only eleven minutes now. So at least to the home games and practice. So Last
Jamie:couple of podcasts.
Scott:Right. You gotta be quick on your
Jamie:But, like, I don't even talk about it anymore. I just don't. Like, if he if if there's a thing if I like, if I don't think he's giving effort, I don't even say it. I just don't say it. I just I keep my fucking mouth shut.
Scott:Right.
Jamie:And it it listen. His body tics have gone away.
Scott:That's remarkable.
Jamie:So they seem to all have been anxiety driven. He even had audible ones. He would clear his throat.
Scott:Oh, really? Don't think
Jamie:Shit I knew was crazy, Scott. The doctor's like, oh, you should go on Tourette's meds. I'm like, Yeah. Was a crazy year. But you know what?
Jamie:We learned a lot.
Scott:Yeah, you did.
Jamie:We learned a lot medically and
Scott:As a family unit?
Jamie:Yes. We learned a lot. And listen, ultimately, I think that he's better for it. Nancy and I clearly are better for it because now we know a better deal with our kid. And it worked this year, and he had less pressure on him because the level wasn't what he was used to.
Jamie:So we'll see, man, as the season kind of draws near. We'll see if not putting pressure on him and really taking all the pressure off from our end is gonna have a good effect. We'll see. I don't know. We're gonna find
Scott:out. So it just got me thinking about a few things. But one of them is when you say take the pressure off, I mean, I feel like
Jamie:Like, don't say anything anymore.
Scott:Right. So specifically I
Jamie:keep my mouth shut. Don't roll my eyes at him when he when he fucks up on the ice. Like, I I don't I don't any of that stuff. I turn my back. You you know what I do?
Jamie:Seriously? Know you know what Nancy and I said? Nancy and I we
Scott:were telling this while we
Jamie:were on vacation. We're like, we he was walking this one day. We're like, Dom, we're just gonna go like this from the stands.
Scott:And for those that aren't don't see,
Jamie:he's just giving
Scott:a thumbs up.
Jamie:Yeah. With like a happy face.
Scott:It's funny. I do I have something similar. It's not a thumbs up.
Jamie:I do I give one of these.
Scott:Yeah. A shotgun?
Jamie:I give them the hang loose.
Scott:Yeah. Hang loose. Yeah. Yeah. I've got something similar for auto nut, either one of those and that's a story for another time.
Jamie:I don't zing anymore. Let's put it that way. Fair. No zings.
Scott:Fair.
Jamie:I keep my fucking mouth shut because it doesn't help.
Scott:Right. But but I but I I I just wanna I wanna
Jamie:because it
Scott:does doubt my kid. I wanna call this out though Mhmm. And I hope you don't mind. No. Fire away.
Scott:In in hearing you talk about taking your foot off the gas Yeah. I I also know you, and I also know that you do a lot of on ice stuff. And I and I know that even when he was going through a bunch of that, there was still and and maybe I don't I I don't I'm not claiming to know the whole picture, but my impression was Right. That, like, there was still, you know, like, the academy He
Jamie:went to an ice hockey school.
Scott:There there was still so that was, like, on and off ice training regularly.
Jamie:Alright. So let me let me let me clarify. When I say take my foot off the gas, I don't mean, like, training wise, hockey wise. I mean take my foot off the gas, like, by not speaking to him.
Scott:Right. But so here here's my question. Yeah. Knowing that you he's he does a lot of Mhmm. Hours on the ice, probably be above average.
Scott:Let's just say it's above average.
Jamie:Yeah. No. I think
Scott:it's fair. Absolutely. And the fact that he has that as his like, that's what his schedule looks like, is is is any of that putting pressure on him knowing that he has so many hours, you know, dedicated to hockey? Like, do you feel like or is it more just the
Jamie:I don't think so. No. No, I don't think so. Because he asks for that.
Scott:He does?
Jamie:Yeah. He looks to me for that. So I think it wasn't the take your foot off the gas training wise, like skating wise, shooting wise, on the ice wise. It was more along the take your foot off the gas as far as talking to him about it.
Scott:Right. You putting pressure on him verbally about performance.
Jamie:I say nothing now. Right.
Scott:I say nothing. Nothing. But you still but you still give him a lot of ice time with the intention.
Jamie:If he
Scott:has Clearly, the intention is, like, you're going to this skating coach to improve your skating, to become a better hockey player, to get better, to advance, to get to the next level. Like, though and I'm not saying
Jamie:that Listen, he still does. He still does skates. He still does clinics. He he still does that stuff.
Scott:Right.
Jamie:And and and he has he asks me for it now.
Scott:Right.
Jamie:So it's not I I don't tell him, you know, anymore. You know, he he's coming to me and asking for it.
Scott:Right. But do do you think any of, like, the the amount the volume of hockey that he was doing, do you think any of that contributed to this increased level of stress? No. Or do you feel pretty confident that it has to do with just the way that you were verbally putting pressure
Jamie:on it? And it wasn't just coming from me. It was coming from the locker room. It was coming from
Scott:The whole dynamic of that team.
Jamie:The entire yes. He was playing on a very high level team with very The high level
Scott:coaches to the locker room
Jamie:The first to be year, he was a very good player on the team. And the second year, all of a sudden, he
Scott:Fell apart.
Jamie:You're not performing. And they all know he's not performing. They start chirping you. That creates its own animal. So he was getting it from every which way, which is why I'm saying if any parents listen to this that takes anything away, it's your kid has enough pressure on him from exterior things.
Scott:Stuff that you might not even realize. Correct.
Jamie:Whether it's in school, whether it's coaches, stuff that you're not even hearing about, that you probably won't ever hear about. So the last thing they need is when they come home to get shit on. Because they're probably getting shit on regardless. Matter of fact, I think Chris was telling us, even Ryan was getting some
Scott:Yeah, he definitely mentioned that.
Jamie:So Yeah, for it happens all the time. And if your kid doesn't tell you about it, you're not going to know about But for the most part, I think it happens to just about everybody. So I think the last thing you need is I think your kid needs this is going sound so ridiculous. I hate using the word safe space because I hate safe spaces. You know?
Jamie:I hate
Scott:safe spaces.
Jamie:Politically, I think they're anyway, that's a whole another story. But when I say safe space, like, your kid needs to be able to come home and not get shit on.
Scott:And yeah. Yeah.
Jamie:Right? A place where they can go where they have some relief from the world around them.
Scott:Yeah. That makes sense.
Jamie:Especially if they're playing at a very high level and they're not performing or they're under stress or under pressure, I think you need to your kid just needs a place where you're on their side. And if they come home or they get hammered in the car ride or they get hammered when they get home, the kid doesn't get a break from it. And that I think is detrimental.
Scott:Totally makes sense.
Jamie:Yeah, hopefully.
Scott:All right, well listen, I think that was a lot of good stuff and thanks for sharing
Jamie:No worries.
Scott:So openly and honest
Jamie:and Hopefully a parent recognizes that if they see that happen to their kid and is able to stop it, because we learned the hard way. That was not fun. No. Yeah. But listen, he's probably better for it because it was a good learning lesson.
Jamie:We fell down. We picked ourself up. We dusted ourself off, and you move forward.
Scott:Yep. Listen, and I will I I I you know, and I also think, you know, it's amazing that the the fallout from that hasn't like, it could have also just been like, I'm done.
Jamie:A 100%.
Scott:That that that's a very reasonable
Jamie:100%. Outcome He could have from
Scott:like, like that
Jamie:I'm out of here. Yeah. I'm done. I don't like this anymore.
Scott:I'm fucking finished. Yeah. I'm fucking finished. You know? So I still going on.
Jamie:Credit to him.
Scott:That's what I was saying earlier about that mental toughness, that
Jamie:resiliency, You're that like not wrong about that. And I think it's important as parents, you don't want to catch your kid when they're falling. Because I think you need to let them fall. But once they've fallen, you need to be there to pick them up, show them the lesson, and say, hey, listen, it doesn't end here. We're going to keep going.
Jamie:And that's what we did. I remember saying to Dominic, Dom, your stride looks like shit. It's all fucking retarded. It's all jacked up. And it was.
Jamie:It 100% was. I said, you know what? I said, we're going to go fix it. And we're going to put in the work and we're going go fix it.
Scott:And he was on board with that.
Jamie:He was on board with it.
Scott:And that was not something that you felt was putting more pressure on a kid that just
Jamie:No. Because he realized that he was all out of whack, and he knew it needed to be fixed. He was frustrated because he felt like he went backwards, which he He did. I think he did. Right?
Jamie:Substantially backwards. But ultimately, if it comes back where he learns how to pick yourself up when you go down, then you know what? This was a hard life lesson.
Scott:But it's a good lesson. And it's a good one. That's something he'll never forget.
Jamie:No. No way. No. This will hopefully help him in the world moving forward.
Scott:Yeah. Well, again, thanks for sharing that. There's Hopefully a lot of
Jamie:it helps somebody out there. Personal Multiple somebody's out there.
Scott:Yeah. But speaking about the
Jamie:Raw and unedited.
Scott:Raw and unedited. So I'd mentioned last week we had another listener write in.
Jamie:You
Scott:did? I did. So it's very fitting. It's very fitting. So so I'm just gonna before we start to wrap this up, just gonna share real quick.
Scott:So hey, Scott and James. Just wanted to say thanks for talking about the pressure to always do more. I I thought I'd share what happened this summer when we tried to take a break. My wife and I made a plan. No camps, no clinics, no skating until August.
Scott:My son, he's 11, was all in. Wanted to play baseball and swim with friends. For once, we actually stuck to it. But about three about three weeks in, the tech started rolling in. Are you guys doing the Edgeware camp?
Jamie:Oh, man. They caved. Good. Awesome.
Scott:There's a skate Tuesday invite only. Did you hear so and so is already back on the ice?
Jamie:Oh, man.
Scott:And suddenly Parent pressure. Already this is and suddenly, I was spiraling.
Jamie:Oh my god.
Scott:I started second guessing everything. Was he falling behind? Losing his edge? Would the coaches notice? Would it he would it matter?
Scott:Oh my goodness. Didn't wanna say anything to him, but I almost caved. I had the sign up page open more than once.
Jamie:Oh, boy.
Scott:Then one night, he came home from baseball, absolutely filthy, sunburned, and grinning ear to ear, tossed his gear in the garage and said, that was the best game ever.
Jamie:Baseball game?
Scott:Baseball game. Yeah. Yeah. Baseball game. Baseball And then he's like, that's when I realized he's not behind.
Scott:He's just being a kid. And honestly, he's doing great.
Jamie:That's awesome.
Scott:Yeah. That's very cool. Be back on the ice soon. But I'm glad we took the pause. Thanks for the reminder that sometimes not skating is the right move.
Jamie:Alright. Good. So the so the parent didn't cave and didn't cave. No. He didn't alright.
Jamie:Listen.
Scott:Yeah. Yeah. That was Jim from Philly.
Jamie:Good for him. Hey. Listen. I like Philly. We I I I actually it's funny.
Jamie:I was just talking about Philly.
Scott:Liberty Bell. I like Philly. Have you been recently? It's fun. Like, two years ago.
Scott:Downtown Philly is fun. Went there with my folks and Otto and Noah. Really? Yeah. We all did, a weekend there.
Jamie:Stayed downtown? Where'd you stay? Yeah. Really? Yeah.
Jamie:Do you know where you stayed? Like, Center City? Do you know where you were?
Scott:Near Rittenhouse Square somewhere.
Jamie:Okay. Do you know where you stayed? Like, Marriott,
Scott:Hilton. I forget.
Jamie:Gotcha. Alright. I'm curious if you were I like I like Downtown Philly. Yeah. There's of history.
Jamie:Cool place.
Scott:Yeah. Thanks. So that was a listener right in. Awesome.
Jamie:Appreciate it. Thanks so much for for for for chiming in.
Scott:Yeah. Let's go, Jim. Yeah. So next week, oh, all right.
Jamie:Mini camp.
Scott:Mini camp, yeah. So we're gonna try something out for size.
Jamie:This is gonna be fun.
Scott:More to come on that one. We'll have a we'll we'll share more next week.
Jamie:Should we drop it and at least tell them what it is?
Scott:Yeah. That's a crazy hockey dad's minicab.
Jamie:What it's going to be? Kind of what it's gonna gut after you. You you tell them No. What it's gonna
Scott:So I I I you go you you've got more notes on it over there.
Jamie:Well, I mean, I I I well, I'm not even concrete yet, but our idea is as the season draws near, so the week of '25, '26, '27, '28, and '29, which is when I'm pretty sure most of us are going to, like, showcases or opening tournaments or just gearing up for the start of the season in a week or two, we're going to try something different. Instead of giving you one episode a week that week, we're gonna do one episode a day, Monday through Friday. Yep. So you're gonna get five episodes from us, kind of getting everybody ready and gearing up for the season opener.
Scott:Yep. They'll be shorter. They'll be shorter. Shorter, a little more focused.
Jamie:Yep. Yep.
Scott:But we're gonna do our own mini camp.
Jamie:We're gonna
Scott:have the Crazy Hockey Dad mini camp. I love it.
Jamie:Yeah. It's awesome. I'm looking forward to this. It's gonna be a lot of fun. And hopefully, one will kind of roll into the other.
Jamie:That's the plan.
Scott:Oh, you mean the episodes?
Jamie:Yes. Hopefully, they will, like, compound on top of each other. So you gotta listen to all five.
Scott:Alright. Well, let's go.
Jamie:And somebody send them to somebody in North Dakota, please.
Scott:Oh. Because they are woeful on our list. Listen. But truthfully,
Jamie:Louisiana is still smoking.
Scott:But truthfully, there are other states that don't even aren't even on our list, so they're doing better than some.
Jamie:Listen. There's like six people in Delaware. There's maybe 15 people in Alaska. So I get why
Scott:zero people from Oregon are listening.
Jamie:Yeah. You know, dude, yeah.
Scott:There you go.
Jamie:And that And Idaho, I don't get.
Scott:But but just real quick. Northwest Territories picked up. Oh, yes.
Jamie:Good. You got a tell
Scott:Bavaria in Germany picked up.
Jamie:Yeah. And we got another region in Germany where they make pretzels.
Scott:Have you I've been there.
Jamie:Have you?
Scott:Those pretzels are good.
Jamie:So do I'm assuming the Bavarian pretzels are from the region of Bavaria.
Scott:Yes. That's Southern Germany.
Jamie:That's what I figured. Yes. When I signed, so I was
Scott:Leaderhosen and Steins of Beer.
Jamie:I see. I see you see you could talk more intelligently.
Scott:I think Berliner. Anyway
Jamie:but yeah. So we picked up wait. We picked up so we are missing one territory in Canada. Yeah. Nunavut?
Jamie:Probably butchered that, by the way. Yeah. We have Yukon and the Northwest Territories.
Scott:Yeah. I just picked that up.
Jamie:Okay. So we're missing one
Scott:Sounds good.
Jamie:One territory in Canada. We're missing six states in The states here.
Scott:Something like that.
Jamie:Something like that. We keep But
Scott:either way, we're all we're almost there.
Jamie:Yeah. We keep picking up cool stuff overseas, which is awesome.
Scott:Yeah. Thank you. So that's that's always just to say thank you to all the listeners who are chiming in.
Jamie:We really appreciate it. Please go drop us a a comment, like a rating and a comment. That really would help us out.
Scott:Yeah, subscribe.
Jamie:So hard to get those comments, the actual reviews. Yeah. Yeah, no, please, if you guys have a second, go review our podcast. It really helps us out analytically. Yeah.
Jamie:Really appreciate everybody listening, everybody downloading. It's great. We hope this is valuable and entertaining. And, yeah,
Scott:let's keep going. Yep. Until next time.
Jamie:Don't let the hockey monster get you. Chomp chomp.