Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
For the fourth episode of "WKNC’s Brain Trust," Lucas talks with Psychology major, Jacob Hambright, and the show’s first-ever repeat guest, Ben Guadarrama, about how masculinity is perceived in our society. They discuss male development in our society and also talk about the importance of men’s mental health.
A WKNC podcast that focuses on having introspective and thought-provoking discussions with guests from across NC State. Hosted by Lucas Marsh.
(Host) Lucas 00:12
Time of day, everyone and welcome back to WKNC Brain Trust. My name is Lucas marsh and I'll be your host for episode five of my show. I'm super excited to be jumping into this episode. This episode, I have two amazing guests. But before I introduce them, I'd like to introduce myself. Again, my name is Lucas Marsh, I'm from Long Island, New York, and I'm a proud member of the freshman class of 2026, here at NC State. I'm glad to have you guys here. And I'm happy to be getting started with this episode. Now, to get started, we're going to have our very first guest. introduce himself.
(Guest) Jacob 00:51
Hello, everybody. My name is Jacob Hambright. I'm a psychology major here at NC State. I am a junior, got about three more semesters left here. Going through early college and coming here, whatnot. So I'm excited to be on the show. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me, and I'm looking forward to having a good conversation.
(Host) Lucas 01:11
So thank you for being here, Jacob. I'm very excited to hear what you have to say about today's topic, which we will reveal in a few moments after we introduce. Oh, introduce. No. What's this, we've got our very first repeat guest ever on the show. Benjamin Guadarrama, you may know him from Episode Three across the aisle. Go ahead and check that out. But, Ben, for those who don't remember you from episode three, or may not know you yet, introduce yourself.
(Guest) Ben 01:44
Hello, everybody. My name is Benjamin. I'm currently a sophomore, finance student pee calm. Not much about me. I'm just glad to be back. And I'm honored to be here again, be your first repeat guest.
(Host) Lucas 01:58
I appreciate it. Ben, I'm glad to have you back here. And I'm glad to hear what you have to say about today's topic, which will be masculinity and our society. So Jacob, as a psychology major, I'm going to address the first question over to you. And the first question is, what would you say it means to be masculine in today's society?
(Guest) Jacob 02:24
That's a good question, man. And my answer to that would be to be masculine as is what it means to complement. What? Feminine. What traits that feminine traits are unable to unable to achieve? So basically, what I'm saying is being masculine is what complements the feminine. Such as being a leader, being strong, right? Not to say that females can't do these things, too. But if we're talking about, you know, society, the way it's oriented and structure and things like this, it's good for men to be strong, it's good for men to be leaders. Men are lower, in conscientiousness, lower in agreeableness, women are higher in agreeableness. They're a lot more emotional than men, right? And that's not a bad thing. Let's do things in common each other very well. So what it means to be masculine is its being complimentary to the feminine, pretty much.
(Host) Lucas 03:18
That's a very interesting perspective. I've never heard it, you know, place like that. And, Ben, I would like to pose the same question to you. What do you believe it means to be masculine in today's society?
(Guest) Ben 03:32
I believe Jacob covered it'd be pretty well to be complimentary to our other half the ancient Greeks that humanity started as a whole, one body with two heads, but their ancient gods cut them in half as punishment. Whether we believe there or not today, that's a whole different story. But I think it points to the real nature of it, that were meant to be a team were meant to complement each other. And that is how society family, everything moves forward, when we work together, complement each other's strengths and weaknesses. And act forward as one and as a team.
(Host) Lucas 04:12
Thank you guys for responding. What it means to be masculine is just it means to be, you know, strong in your own mind, in your own heart and your ambitions and your intentions and your opinions and just be, be yourself. Be strong in your character. Be strong in your mind. Like I said,
(Guest) Jacob 04:32
well, well, it's being it's being the person that people can cry on at the funeral. Right? Right. Just really what it means
(Host) Lucas 04:40
right in the shoulder. Yeah, chose to do it, right. That's a excellent example. So we're gonna roll right into what sorts of things can be considered masculine, Jacob, I know you brought up a few examples. But I'd like to elaborate on that and talk about that a little bit more. So what sorts of things are are considered masculine. And so what behaviors would be considered masculine and why? And Jacob, if you wouldn't mind,
(Guest) Jacob 05:10
one really important one. And I like to emphasize this a lot as being a leader and being a mentor, especially to young children, right? Because a lot of young kids are looking up, right. When you're growing up, you're looking up, you're looking up to your parents and stuff like that. So maybe we can talk about being a father too. But I mean, I'll mention that later. But being somebody that people can look up to and want to aspire to be, right. It is very important for men to focus on leadership skills. You know, this is not to say that women can't be leaders, this or that, right. But if you look statistically, and if you look how men are built, if their psychological structure, how they are more inclined to be leaders and be in positions, leadership, that's a really important thing. It's really important for that to be instilled. And so yeah, I mean, I would say another. Another big aspect of being masculine want to be a protector of those who are weaker. Because you do have a biological advantage, generally speaking, men do. And being a protector and understanding how to protect people and understanding how to have control. That's really important, too. So.
(Host) Lucas 06:22
And I noticed you said, obviously, we're gonna mention family. Familial things later, I think, if you wouldn't mind now would be a excellent time to bring that up.
(Guest) Jacob 06:32
Yeah, no, absolutely. My third point with that would be that I believe that every man is called to, to fatherhood, to be a father and to father children, and, you know, be successful in that. So.
(Host) Lucas 06:49
And then, obviously, if you have anything else to say, I'm sure everybody would love to hear that. So Ben, same questions posed to you. What behaviors do you think are considered masculine and why?
(Guest) Ben 07:00
I think one of the first and foremost I guess you can call it a pillar of manliness or manhood, would be that as the role of protector, British anthropologist, Julian pit reverse, he said that acquaintance of manliness is fearlessness, and the readiness to defend one's own and one's family. Another amazing book I read back, it's actually a month ago now, it mentioned that across 300 cultures, and tribal cultures, to be precise, that were studied, man, and female all served a different roles. But the only common role amongst all cultures worldwide, was that men acted as protectors and warfighters. They were ret. They were ready to defend themselves, their family against anything that went bump in the night, any wild beast, they were ready to lay down their own lives to defend their loved ones. And I believe that's just that's just something that's beautiful. And we don't see a lot of today.
(Host) Lucas 07:57
So you bring up the example of 300 tribes in their natural state, just on like irrelevant. Do you mean by natural do you mean like, like, untouched by modern societies? What you mean?
(Guest) Ben 08:09
I wouldn't say untouched I'd say that they still live in their little tribe, but they still live in tribal communities and they still hold the same traditions as they did in the past outs for example, to the Aboriginal people of Australia outsoles to consider they're still considered to be in their primal state, but they are obviously not uncontacted Assam Amazonian tribes.
(Host) Lucas 08:30
Right. So that would obviously be tradition, more traditional values still in their natural state? How do you think they're, like traditional views their traditional values on you know, gender roles on masculinity, how that would apply to today's society? Let's say like, just let's talk about in in the United States, do you think that it's, those same values still would apply today?
(Guest) Ben 09:01
Any values and specific are the values as protector
(Host) Lucas 09:04
justifies its protection is that just the the point that you brought up using the tribes as the as an example, the point that you brought up there,
(Guest) Ben 09:11
I believe the values protector should always be held and regarded with masculinity, no matter the culture, whether it's a father at home with his family, and here's a sound downstairs, maybe the door forced open. I believe that the father should be the first one to check on it. If there's a man just walking by, and there's a car accident, somebody needs help out of the vehicle, they shouldn't just stand idly by and wait for somebody else. We don't need a by standard culture today. We need people who are ready to put stuff put their own stuff down, set out, set aside their own personal scares, and be willing to help other people with whatever it is whether it's life or death, whether it's just somebody as simple as, hey, this person needs a car tire changed, or if it's something as extreme as, hey, these people just wrecked and he's trapped in a vehicle. Let's get him out.
(Guest) Jacob 10:00
Um, so Ben was really interesting about that what you just said is, when you're talking about man being a protector and stuff like that, right? What you need to pay attention to is that in order to be a protector, you need to be strong, and you need to be competent. Right. And this is you said in regards to the modern United States, how can this apply? I think that there is a culture in the United States that cultivates being passive, and being weak, that kind of they they get empathy and weakness micked. Right. You do need to be empathetic as a man, right? But the thing is, is that you need to be dangerous, but you need to know how to have control over it. So
(Guest) Ben 10:44
Jacob, out, I believe, when you say weak, I believe you also mean to have not only the physical but also the mental strength to do what is necessary, correct? Yes, yes, yes. Okay.
(Host) Lucas 10:57
So I'm glad that you guys bring up the mental capacity of masculinity, mental passerby, masculine. Because it's very, very important to talk about men's mental health in today's society. So because of its importance, I would like to transition to talking more about that. Because masculinity in today's society, obviously, it's not only just about physical traits of masculinity, it's about psychological traits of being masculine about being a man. So I'd like to talk more about just men's mental health. So Jacob, what would you say? The like the state of men's mental health is, in today's society? What do you think the condition of men's mental health is today?
(Guest) Jacob 11:49
Not good. It's very poor. extremely poor right now. For starters, right now, we live in a modern age that decides to set up society as this sort of patriarchal structure where if negative things occur, it's because of you. You're a man, it's your fault. You're part of the patriarchy, right. And when you take young men and I don't have a problem, I'm, it's very easy for me to dis dismiss those things. When I hear them come my way. I'm like, okay, you know, to think that societies are predicated to benefit men, it's like 99% of bricklayers are men. 98% of coal miners are men. Men commit suicide at a at a higher rate than women, more men are depressed than women, right? It's like, man, if, if we're building societies to benefit men, we're doing a bad job at it. We're doing a really bad job at it. And when you take young men and you tell them, that they are this, let's say you have this male privilege idea that's going around right now, when you when you put that in the minds of young men that really, that's not good. Because there's actually men out there, they're trying to improve society, like I said, I exhibiting these good traits of masculinity, trying to be leaders, right, trying to be competent, let's say even trying to raise a family first what you choose to do, okay, and when you have society, perpetuated establishments to beat you down and saying, like, man, you're part of something that is keeping me down and oppressing me. Like that doesn't sit well in the mind of a young man, you know?
(Host) Lucas 13:25
Now, would you agree or disagree? That, obviously there like you said, there are men who are trying to be they're trying to be the best them, they're trying to be the best they can be. They're trying to be leaders, they are trying to contribute to society positively. Now, do you think that the just because the condition of mental health in men of today's society, it's poor? It's not very good, we can see the statistics, we can see the numbers, we know that it's not good. Do you think that there are men who would use their masculinity in a negative way, use their masculinity in a just, you know, in a bad way to oppress others?
(Guest) Jacob 14:12
Absolutely. 100%. And we can talk about that, too. There are so many, and this is also a problem. As we're talking about the good traits of masculinity and stuff like that they're not being hammered it enough. We are getting abusive, lazy, and sad and lonely men, is what our society is producing right now. And there are men who do abuse it, of course, I mean, you look at the divorce rate right now. And you look at the rate of domestic violence cases and stuff like that. You know, it's crazy. And it's because men are not being taught these good values. And another issue that would be less fathers in the home is this is a whole big tapestry. We have the divorce rate, we don't have fathers in the home. And now we're getting we're getting men with walking around with, you know, slushies for brains and they're not figuring out how to orient themselves. They have no aim, no idea what the hell they're going to be. doing, you know? So absolutely. And I think it's the people that abused that to that are one of the biggest problems with why why why our masculine structure in our society is failing? Because men don't understand remember I spoke earlier about having control over that power, right or that strength. So yes, 100%, your question. Absolutely.
(Guest) Ben 15:27
Just to piggyback off, Jacob said, he said it beautifully, Couldn't have said it better myself. It's not the fact that we have too much masculinity currently in the United States. It's the lack of masculinity. These boys are being raised in fatherless home. Right now according the United States Census Bureau. 18 point 4 million children, that's one in four, live in a home without a biological step or adopted father at home. These are children are not being taught those traits, to be competent to be leaders to be protectors. They're being raised by media by horrible social media influencers, which is, this is what being masculine is being masculine is being a, b and c, it's being lustful. It's oppressing other people, it's kicking others when they're down. You got to be an alpha male to succeed. Now, if you look at even if you look at wolf packs, Wolf, Wolf packs are deeply family oriented, they will sacrifice their own good for the good of the pack. They're deeply altruistic. But we don't have people saying that today in media, we have people saying, look, go out there and lust after everything you see, go out there. And this regard family, worry only about yourself. If you see somebody else failing, don't extend a hand, kick them down to make sure you succeed. That's not what being masculine is. It's not too much masculinity that's ruining this country. It's a lack of masculinity.
(Host) Lucas 16:58
Right? Definitely, we need more people who are willing to extend a helping hand, as you said, we need more people who are willing to put their own success, perhaps, you know, just their own day, in the way to help others to be able to, you know, extend that helping hand to be able to be there for people, you know, as you were saying, or they'd be that shoulder to cry on, just be there for people. But that, I would like to bring it back to the point that although it is very important for men to be there for other people, and it is a very positive sort of masculine trait. When men are supportive of other people supportive of other men supportive of women, of supportive of people, and just supportive in general. It is very important for them to be like that. But it is also important for them to be there for themselves. It's important for men to be there for themselves, if they are not taking care of themselves mentally and physically. They cannot help others, which in turn, fails as a society. And that is not what we want. So So Jacob, as our resident, Psych psychology major, I'd love to hear what you think about why society nowadays seems to be producing, you know, lazy, arrogant, overly aggressive kind of oppressive men. Why do you think that is?
(Guest) Jacob 18:40
Yeah, one thing I would really like to emphasize is, I would say the arrogant part. Definitely. There are a lot of men walking around thinking they're the stuff you kind of have like this binary right now you have really lazy men who were never. Let's say they didn't have a father in the home or their father didn't care, right? Or their father was too gracious. Okay, it was, well, you know, maybe I shouldn't buy you a $50,000 truck. Because you keep racking and doing stupid things. Maybe I should say no. And stop rewarding. Maybe,
(Host) Lucas 19:10
maybe not. Yeah, definitely not. Yeah.
(Guest) Jacob 19:15
And that just doesn't happen anymore. And so you get these, these, you get these lazy type kids, they're not taught how to work. So they come out and they're, you know, they hate the world because they can't make money and they're wondering why they can't make money. So everything's just like, it sucks, man. And so then they get they get arrogant, right? And then you come into this, this like this. I mean, what the world is really good at doing is finding people that are down right? And reaching out and grabbing them and going, this is what I want you to think. Okay, the secular version of masculinity that we are being taught right now. Because like I said earlier, the world is saying you know, men are the worst kill all men Bad, bad, this and that. Whatever. Okay, you have these you have these radical feminist movements. You have these radical movements. From the left, I'd even say from the right do on the political spectrum, they're teaching the wrong version of masculinity, and not even here to make the case and say it. Well, it's found somewhere in the middle. No, like, this is a this is a family thing, right? This is a, I have a father, let's teach me it's more of a role model, a leader, another man who understands what it is, okay? That's not what's happening. Like I said, the world is getting a hold of these people, right? And it's saying, This is what it means to be masculine. And Ben brought it up earlier, he was saying stuff about like, well to be masculine as to, well, I've slept with this many women, or I have this much money, or I bought this or that. And then, like you said, kicking people while they're down, because look at me, I'm the top dog. It's like no man, you know, because I even emphasize heavily the family structure, that family structure does not work, unless there is love. And you can ask me what I mean by love. And I'll give you an answer. And that sacrifice, unless somebody's willing to say, I am going to use what I have. And I spoke about this earlier, too, I'm going to take my advantage, my strength that I've been given biological or psychological advantage, I would even say advantage, I'd say complimentary trait to the female, right, I'm going to take that I'm going to work on it, and I'm going to get it under control. And then I'm going to use what I've gotten under control, and then sacrifice that for my wife and for my kids, or whoever that might be right. So that's really important, is to really tune out what the world is saying a man is.
(Host) Lucas 21:24
So Jacob, I'm glad you talked about that. Thank you for responding so well. I just thought of something very interesting. I saw there was an episode of a show that I saw a while ago, I forget what the name of the show was called. But I know that the episode of the show was called Gender Wars. Very obviously, it was had men, a group of men and a group of women doing different competitions to see, you know, like, oh, who, who's better men or women. Haha, let's watch this cool episode of this show. And obviously, the show ended in a tie. Because the show ended in a tie for like literally just how the thing ended up, it ended up in a tie. But something an interesting thing that I saw was, it had a game that they played, where the game was, a prompt would show up. And it's a prompt of like, a book or a movie or like a genre or something like that. And, like some sort of like pop culture reference to something and the game was who could guess like one person knew the prompt, the other person had to guess the prompt and the game was who could guess more prompts. And it was interesting, because men, the men group, the group group of men ended up guessing more prompts correctly, because they used less detail to explain what they were talking about. Like if I said to you redballoon Clown sewer where they make you outside say it. Right, I said three words. To describe it. It was their first prompt. I think the the group of women described it in like, a few sentences. And the group of men described their prompts in like a few words. And the science behind that was menus, I think at a time menus like half their brain for like the part of your brain that recalls details is Oh, yeah, basically, it's at like half strength. That doesn't mean you recall less details it just ordinary doesn't mean you know less things about something. It's just you don't need to know as many things about something like Oh, all I need to know to identify it as it is flooding red balloon clown sewer, like that's it. I could probably even guess it in two words if
(Guest) Jacob 23:52
the women do the women guests after those three prompts to
(Host) Lucas 23:56
after the throw, no. So how it worked was the they just had another another man or another man I see. Okay, okay. I never lending it to them. Gotcha. Cool. Okay, but the men got the prompts out quicker, because they just use less detail to explain it. So obviously, we can tell men are wired differently. Yeah. And
(Guest) Ben 24:13
I believe that sounds interesting. Because if you go back to like our early days, when men would go out and like hunting groups or war groups, with with those few details that saves precious time in which predator could jump out or an enemy could attack them. So maybe that could go back to our early days as early man.
(Host) Lucas 24:30
Maybe? That's actually not a bad point. Yeah, definitely
(Guest) Jacob 24:34
look at some primitive, primitive, primitive origins of that, right? Um, I actually do want to jump in and say something on this too. It's really interesting because when we talk how society is structured and stuff like that, too, we have you know, we obviously have young boys, young girls, they're in school together and women do a lot better in school than men do, right. And women will they'll take a lot of jobs like that, where you have your degree and stuff like this and you go throughout it. And a lot of men are working in like the blue collar field, right? All these really small, you know, Mo and whatever you're doing these really simple. It's just interesting because you talked about that simple mindset. It's just a very simple like concrete way of thought. Right. So that's cool.
(Host) Lucas 25:20
So my next question I wanted to bring up is, what do you guys think? The term so sorry? Pre emptive question. Do you guys have you heard of the term boys will be boys?
(Guest) Jacob 25:34
Yes, yes.
(Host) Lucas 25:37
Okay, so what would you say? That means? Boys will be boys because I've heard it used to explain or kind of justify very bad behavior from men which is completely unacceptable. I just wanted to know what you guys think. Boys we boys kind of represents what it what does it mean? Or at least what should it mean?
(Guest) Jacob 26:00
Okay. Yeah, that's been used in a bad way. You know? I think instead of saying boys will be boys, right? You can say that. It's kind of a it's like a dismissal almost, you know, it's like well, he did this or he did that as just going to be guys and especially around like, let's say I'm not a word this exactly within our our society is really hyper sexualized a lot with a lot of things and we think that it's acceptable for boys to do certain things whether they're, you know, hanging out some places to happen some behaviors that are not exactly you know, let's say moral are correct. And we got boys will be boys, right? There's no like rearing, there's no teaching. That's that's that's a dismissal and that's not okay. I think what it should be is that boys will be what they have been raised to be. That's exactly what it is. Right. So, again, like I said, it's all about going back to that to being raised to be what it means to be masculine not by what the world says but by you know, a competent masculine figure in your life. So
(Guest) Ben 27:06
no matter what Jacob say, Yes, boys will be boys have been used to long as as a dismissal for inappropriate actions. If you say something like boys will be boys, the first thing that comes to my mind is just stupid, harmless fun that boys will naturally be inclined to do. I think it was. Let's see. No, there's like little video while back when virus robots just some guys at the beach just digging a hole.
(Host) Lucas 27:30
digging holes at beaches. I'm so so glad you brought that up. That is the perfect perfect example. In my mind. That is the perfect example of boys will be boys. That's the lightheartedness of the whole whole topic of masculinity in our society. It's not the bully on the beach kicking down all the sandcastles because he doesn't like yeah, that's
(Guest) Jacob 27:55
not boys will be boys dance boys will be boys, man. Boys will
(Host) Lucas 27:59
be boys as
(Guest) Jacob 28:01
well. Big Rock off a bridge gotta make a hole right to the water.
(Guest) Ben 28:05
Nice, big My gosh.
(Host) Lucas 28:06
Amazing, right? Like was we've always just the silly, fun of Yeah, digging a big hole the beach like one time, I was actually I was digging a hole of the beach, digging a hole at the beach and some other guys on the beach, who had shovels and didn't know what to do. So they were going to dig a hole. But they saw that I was digging a hole. And I had been digging the hole for a few hours. So they actually ended up coming over and helping me dig the hole. And then after I had left, they basically just some more guys came over and sat down. They really just came together. So I'm glad you guys agree that simple acts just
(Guest) Ben 28:42
keep us happy.
(Guest) Jacob 28:43
Well, if you don't mind me to talking about that community just said, Well, you're kind of you're doing something and then other people see that you're doing that thing, and they come to it with you. And it's like, well, now you're my friend. Okay. Why? No? Well, we shared interests with something. Okay. And maybe they came over and they poke fun at you a little bit. And maybe they started seeing you know, how far can I go with him? Is he does he check out? Can I hang out with this guy? Right. And this brings back a really important point I wanted to make of we're talking about lazy men or whatever. When you get men in the workforce, particularly I think it is very good. As for my personal opinion, I think it's very good for men to work a blue collar job or a job where they are with older men that maybe poke a little bit of fun at them. I'm not saying you know, this, it's like, well, it's good to you know, bully someone until they cry because you know, that's going to do something It's like no, but you need to be picked on you know why? Because it socializes you properly. These are two big things right here. It's like it's really strange. But these are two big things. You wrestle with your dad when you're young and you need to be picked on on the job site. When you wrestle with your father you understand how to play fight, and we know how to play fight, you know what hurts people and what doesn't hurt people, and you can go about society and you continue to that line. And now you're a likable person, right? Same thing whenever you go on the job site. They can sit there they can vote. Fun to you, they can go, how much of a load can he carry before we break his back, but let's keep them right on the edge so that he's looking up to us, right? They're gonna make fun of you, you know, I worked with a guy one time. And all the all the co workers they come in, they give you some silly name, you know, names I'm not gonna say on this. It was a very diverse, it was a diverse group of men. I mean, they're from all walks of life and stuff like this, right? And so you'd come on as a younger kid, and I was 15 years old. At the time, when I came, my dad would drop me off to go work in like junk removals, lawn care, stuff like that. And they pick on me and I could like, go with it. And then about two years later, we had another kid come in, who was about a about a year younger than me. And they did the same thing. They picked on him stuff like this, but he wasn't liking it. Like he didn't take it. He went over there thinking he was like, Well, I deserve respect and stuff like that. And that's not what happened now. You're the new guy. And yeah, and I find out about him, like, you know, like later now 19 years old, and he's just, he's not doing too well, you know, and, and it's really interesting to see that he was just unable to play along with that, or play along with that, uh, that social game, you know, because you don't learn how to play in society. So wrestle with your dad, because you know, what hurts and you know, what doesn't, and work with other men who make fun of you? Because you know how to teeter the societal line. So.
(Host) Lucas 31:19
So this isn't, thank you. Yes.
(Guest) Jacob 31:24
Sorry, that was a bit long. But does I totally, I really love those examples.
(Guest) Ben 31:29
As the fire department, I joined at 16. Exactly, just that we are I got a very beautiful nicknames I won't repeat on on air. But I love those guys to death. I respect the world out of them, I still look up to them. And some of them are just a couple years, my senior, but I learned so much from them, not only how to be a good firefighter, but also how to be a good man how to be a good person. If at any time I needed some help for any issue, I can always count on them.
(Host) Lucas 31:54
Right now, you've got you got two good two great examples, obviously, you know, I had I have a dad, you know, we would play fight a lot. I play fight with my older brother, too. I've been in I mean, I work a cashier job at a grocery store. So it wasn't really like a place for them to kind of old the older guys to kind of pick on me because I wasn't like stocking the back shelves I was I was just up at the register while scanning people's groceries and making fun of the weird customers kind of thing. But would you say there's other ways for it? Because obviously, obviously, those aren't the only two ways men to learn how to really understand their strength because like I would, I would fight with my brother all the time. Because obviously we are brothers, we are competing in the same space for the, you know, attention of our parents and that kind of thing. And, oh, he took something of mine. And oh, he's better than me at this. So I'm going to make fun of him for that kind of thing. You know, just brotherly love. Sure. You know, it's brotherly love. It's not exactly for the purpose. I'm not now now, of course, we're best friends. We're doing a lot. So much so much better. But there are people who still kind of think that way towards other men towards their brothers, towards people. Which is obviously not good.
(Guest) Jacob 33:19
You mean like lots of conflict still, even as they've gotten older.
(Host) Lucas 33:22
Right? Right. They don't they don't grow to respect one another. Yeah, they don't they still pick petty fights over Oh, they took this they took that, again, that can always go down to how they were raised. What their familial situation was, like, do they have a father did not have a father? Did they have? Did they have a mother? Did they not have a mother? What how did they grow up that that sort of environment? So what do you think can be done to kind of improve the behavior of some of the some of the men out there that think they can just be the world is the world is theirs, they can do whatever they want that kind of bad behavior, that that laziness of like, I don't care that I'm, I could do whatever I want. I can do this, I can do that. Because I'm me, I could do that. That kind of behavior, and what do you think can be done to improve that behavior? And what do you think can be done to improve the way society sees men's mental health for those men who are trying to be better? You know what I mean? Like those men who are trying to be leaders who are trying to be there for themselves who are trying to be there for others? What do you think can be done to kind of improve the way society looks upon men's mental health to help those men help themselves so that they can help others?
(Guest) Jacob 34:43
Okay, so, so kind of like, what I'm getting from your question here is, so talking about one aspect of it, where you have this culture that encourages men to have these ignorant or cocky II lazy attitudes about things. And then we have the other aspect, this putting them down. So we're having like a stimulant and depressant here. One that's just taking all the worst qualities that a man can possibly, you know, generate, given his given his given his psychological and biological makeup. And then you also have this other outcome where you know if the world is pulling these men down, right, so what you can do about the ignorant men is you can tell them to start loving people more, you can tell them to stop thinking about themselves as much. And once you can start doing so you can start looking at individuals and going, every single thing that's going on in my head and happening up here is exactly what's going on in their head. You can teach them real empathy, not weakness, but empathy and self control. I said earlier, it is good to be dangerous, but you need control over it. And the second thing for the men that are feeling lonely right now, and depressed and hopeless, because it's really easy to do that right now, because we are living in a world. For these men, they are living in an echo chamber that is constantly telling them that they are a big part of the human condition, you're a big part of why we're suffering. Just because you're a guy, you came out of the womb of man, you're a big problem. Like I said before, you don't tell people that and expect them to be going about life, okay? They're not going to, especially if they listen to that, right, because men listen to things and they want to take advice from people. And they want to think that people in authority or know what the hell they're saying, right? Don't structure society that way. Don't put people down whenever they're feeling like whenever they're already grown up as a young man, and then you decide to tell them that the world is a hellhole. Because of you. It's, it's a bad bad thing. Another thing too, is to start emphasizing relationships. Within, you know, the male community, start emphasizing relationships with friends, with your father, with your younger siblings, find somebody and encourage them, pick your head up, you know, lower yourself, raise somebody else up, that's one of the most fulfilling things you can do. And take each day by day man, find somebody to get close to, this wants to listen to you. Because men do need to be listened to right you have this one aspect, it's like men can do you know, all this, whatever. And then the other aspect, it's like, well, you're not allowed to show emotion, you know, and the other aspect that's like, well, you're exactly like a woman when it comes to showing emotion. And that's equally as damaging, right? Because they need to find, I wouldn't even say find that balance, but they just need to find what they are as a man what it means to be masculine. And another man directing another man on what it means to be masculine is not a vice versa when it comes to another female directing to another female what it means to be feminine. Right? We were talking earlier, you know, with the mics off about men socializing men, social groups, getting a good group, right. So that's what can be done about it, man, you structure society in a way that lets me know that we care about them deeply, that they have purpose, a lot of it, stop thinking like a nihilist and start knowing that you put on the planet for a reason.
(Host) Lucas 38:12
Thank you very much. Thank you for sharing. Now, Ben, the same question obviously be posed to you. What do you think can be done? What do you think can be done to improve the way society views men's mental health? And what do you think can be done to improve the bad behavior that some men exhibit in like day to day actions? What do you think can be done to really better better our society?
(Guest) Ben 38:38
When it comes to touching the first points, though, how we can improve men's mental health? I believe first and foremost, we have to get rid of this ridiculous notion that men aren't supposed to feel. We're supposed to feel that we're supposed to have control over it, that we dig ourselves into this hole that I feel, therefore it is bad. No, if you feel something, it's going to affect you, obviously. But have your like Jacob said, have your social circles, have your little, not tribes have your people that you've familiarized yourself with? If I have a problem, I feel comfortable going over with Jacob right now. I'm gonna for eternity, I can go talk to them if I have an issue. That one of the strong social ties at the moment is with a military. I have a friend I haven't seen him in two years. But the other day, he's been having personal issues. That's a different story. I haven't seen him in two years, but he still feel comfortable enough talking to them about me. We have to get rid of this ridiculous notion that men can't open up to other men. We have to realize notion to Yes, we can open up to each other. But doesn't mean we open up and wallow in our pain. We open up, help each other out, find a solution and move forward together. That is something I believe we have to fix in society as a whole. You have social once again going back to your social media influencers that you do a B or C Well, you're not a real man. I believe they're, they're partly guilty and pushing this notion that men are supposed to feel or open up. Now, even in your even if you're familiar or romantic relationships, you're gonna have successful relationships, communication, and successful social ties, communication, anything you do as a human being is the result of successful, open and honest communication. As for these men, displaying masculine traits, but in a negative manner, I believe that part of the way to fix it is twofold. One, we have to reach out to these men who are already out there in society. We had stop ostracizing them, the more we ostracize them, the deeper we push them into their own echo chamber. And they're and they're going to find their echo chamber, they will find like minded individuals who have felt neglected, or felt isolated, lonely, they will find those echo chambers on social media on forum sites. And there's industries that profit off them. And they will be found by those industries. And those industries don't have their best, their best hopes and minds. Those industries want to keep them lonely, so they can have a returning customer. We have to reach out to them, we have to reach out to them and bring them back into society. The second part of the issue is, I believe we've we've touched in more, we've touched on this multiple times in the back, back and forth. We've mentioned the family, the father absence, I said it earlier 18 point 4 million children are raised in a father Epson home, that's 9.2 million boys are going to erase without fathers, their grade, four times greater risk of property, they're more likely to have behavioral problems, more likely to go to prison, to commit crime, most likely to abuse and neglect both doing it and receiving it, they're most more likely to suffer obesity, they're more likely to drop out of school, we have to recognize this pattern, we have to recognize that we are important, we have to stop listening to those people who push this message that you are male, therefore the issues are happening are bad, and they're your issues you cost them, we have to be willing to move forward. And realize this is what's happening. This is not who I wants to be. This is who I want to be for my children. This is how we raised them with the correct male masculine values of protector, helping provide for the family, helping other people wonder down. Those are the values we need.
(Host) Lucas 42:42
Thank you, Ben. And that about wraps it up for episode four of WKNC his brain trust, because we have the biggest of brains, and we trust in them. So I'd like to thank you guys for being here. Jacob. And Ben, you guys have been amazing.
(Guest) Jacob 42:58
Absolutely. Thank you very much, man. This was I really enjoyed this. So thank
(Guest) Ben 43:02
you. It's been an absolute pleasure and honor to be here, man.
(Host) Lucas 43:05
Yeah, and then two time champ. Two time guests so far.
(Guest) Ben 43:12
They gotta bring Jacob back. Make him compete.
(Host) Lucas 43:14
Maybe we'll see. So love it, man.
(Guest) Jacob 43:17
Love it. Love it.
(Host) Lucas 43:18
Thank you guys so much for being here. And we want to say from all hearts here at WKNC is braintrust want to say a quick thank you to JT Suffolk and moving boxes for providing us with amazing intro and outro music. If you want to check them out. They've done some great work for us here. Obviously WKNC is brain trust and for WKNC. If you want to check them out on Instagram, you can check them out at at moving boxes band, it's all lowercase and one word at moving boxes band. Now if you liked what you heard today, and you'd like to stay tuned with WKNC brain trust because we do have the biggest brains and we trust in them. Should Be sure to check us out@wknc.org forward slash podcasts that's wknc.org forward slash podcasts with an S WKNC braintrust is also available anywhere you can find a podcast Be sure to check out our previous episodes and stay tuned for future content. And with that, good day