Make It Mindful: An Education Podcast

In this episode of Make It Mindful, Seth talks with Dr. Alfonso "Fonz" Mendoza Jr. — Teaching and Learning Coordinator at Kami and host of My EdTech Life, a 373-episode podcast that has reached more than 8,500 educators — about what AI actually does and doesn't do for teachers, and what it means to find meaning in work when automation keeps changing what work looks like. This is a crossover episode, appearing on both Make It Mindful and My EdTech Life.

Together, Seth and Fonz explore the argument that teachers remain the ultimate technology in the classroom — not because AI isn't capable, but because the ability to read a room, improvise, and form genuine relationships with students isn't something that scales to a statistical prediction machine. They talk about the difference between cognitive offloading and cognitive stunting, the concern that students aren't just delegating skills they've developed, but missing the chance to develop them at all. Fonz pushes back on the language of "neural networks" and "learning," drawing on Dr. Emily Bender's stochastic parrots framework to argue that borrowing human vocabulary for these tools obscures what they actually are. They get into AI governance at the district level, including why Texas still has no state AI policy, what it looks like when a task force actually follows through versus when the conversation dies at back-to-school season, and why equal stakeholder representation (including parents) changes what a policy can do. The episode closes with Fonz's signature speed round, with finding meaning in the concept of NOW.

Key topics:
  • The teacher as the ultimate technology in an AI-saturated classroom
  • Cognitive stunting vs. cognitive offloading in student AI use
  • Stochastic parrots and the danger of anthropomorphizing LLMs
  • AI governance failures at the district level
  • Trust between students, teachers, and parents in the AI era
  • Finding purpose and meaning when automation reshapes work
  • Generational differences in AI attitudes (Gen Z vs. Gen Alpha)

LINKS & RESOURCES

GUEST BIO: Dr. Alfonso "Fonz" Mendoza Jr.
Dr. Alfonso "Fonz" Mendoza Jr. is the Teaching and Learning Coordinator at Kami and host of My EdTech Life, a podcast now six years old and 373 episodes in. His work focuses on responsible AI adoption in K–12 education, cutting through the hype to examine what technology actually does for teachers and students, and what it can't replace. He is a Google Innovator, Adobe Education Innovator, and 2024 EdTech Digest Leadership Award winner for Best EdTech Author/Speaker or Podcaster.

ABOUT THE HOST
About the Host: Seth Fleischauer is the founder of Banyan Global Learning and host of Make It Mindful: Insights for Global Learning. Through Banyan, he designs live virtual programs that connect K-12 classrooms to global peers and expert facilitators — building the kind of structured, human-centered learning the podcast explores. See https://banyangloballearning.com/

Creators and Guests

Host
Seth Fleischauer

What is Make It Mindful: An Education Podcast?

Make It Mindful is a podcast for educators and school leaders who think seriously about how learning is changing and want to explore what to do next. Hosted by Seth Fleischauer, founder of Banyan Global Learning and former classroom teacher, the show covers three territories: what AI actually changes about teaching and learning, what it takes to help students connect meaningfully across cultures, and the human conditions — belonging, awe, trust, emotional regulation — that learning depends on regardless of what else changes.

Guests include district administrators, researchers, clinical psychologists, curriculum designers, and classroom practitioners. Conversations are long-form and honest. Produced by Banyan Global Learning.

# Make It Mindful — Transcript
## Guest: Dr. Alfonso "Fonz" Mendoza Jr.
## My EdTech Life Crossover Episode

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**[INTRO — recorded separately]**

**[00:00:00]**

Support for Make It Mindful is brought to you by World Savvy, partnering with K-12 schools, districts, and community leaders to prepare youth to thrive in a complex, interconnected world.

Make It Mindful is proud to feature Svitlo School, empowering the future social, political and business leaders of Ukraine to become confident global citizens.

Welcome to Make It Mindful: Insights for Global Learning, the podcast about how students learn, who they're becoming, and how new technologies and global experiences reshape teaching.

I'm Seth Fleischauer, founder of Banyan Global Learning. This episode is a first for the show — a crossover conversation with Dr. Alfonso Mendoza Jr., host of My EdTech Life, a podcast now six years old and 373 episodes in that has reached more than 8,500 educators. Fonz is also the Teaching and Learning Coordinator at Kami. If you're listening from My EdTech Life, welcome — and if you're a Make It Mindful regular, his show is worth finding.

We talk about what podcasting actually does for the people who make it, what teachers can and can't hand off to AI, what's going wrong with district AI governance, and what it means to find meaning in work when automation keeps changing what work is.

This episode of Make It Mindful is brought to you by Banyan Global Learning.

At Banyan Global Learning, we design structured live experiences that connect classrooms to the world.

Banyan Global Cohorts is a 4-week journey in global competence. Classrooms join an international cohort of 3–4 schools and meet weekly during regular class time for facilitated, 45-minute sessions built around a compelling Big Question.

Students explore global contexts through virtual field trips, exchange ideas with international peers, and create a final digital artifact that expresses identity, perspective, and connection across cultures.

If you're curious about what this could look like in your classroom or school, we'd love to talk. You can find us at banyangloballearning.com.

And now here's my conversation with Dr. Alfonso Mendoza.

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Seth (00:00.738)
So typically I would say to my guest, welcome to the podcast. But since we're cross-posting this on both of our channels, I suppose it's welcome to your listeners welcoming your listeners to my voice and welcoming my listeners to your voice. But welcome, Dr. Alfonso Mendoza, to make it mindful and for me to my ed tech life. This is fun.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza (00:23.162)
Absolutely. I'm really excited about this. And of course, like we just talked about, you know, this would be a first for both of us cross posting our content. So this is really great that people not only get to see a little bit of that, you know, kind of nuance that goes behind the podcasting and just a real connection, you know. And so this is great. A little bit of rawness, but having a good conversation for sure nonetheless.

Seth (00:47.682)
Yeah, you've popped up in my LinkedIn feed a bunch because we're connected there. And also some familiar faces present themselves on your feed. Lindy Hawkenberry, Jed Stefanowitz, Carly Delo, Scott Freskett. These are four guests that both of us have shared on our podcast. And so the last time it popped up, I think it was Lindy, and I was like, man, we gotta talk. I'm wondering about like first about podcasting in general. We chatted a little bit about what this brings to you, but I guess how do you see these conversations that you have, this information that you're exposed to, these people that you connect with, how does that impact your professional life, your personal life? Like what does this podcast mean to you?

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza (01:36.009)
Yeah, that's a great question. You know, this podcast started six years ago and it started with the intention of helping people, you know. Obviously, you know, six years ago was 2020 and we all got locked in. And I think that that's where a lot of podcasts began, but then not a lot of them continued after that. You know, things happen, you kind of go back to normal, life happens and so on. So I've been able to kind of push through and just because for me this has been something so meaningful and the body of work like we've discussed earlier, that human connection and being able to amplify. And I think for me, that has always been the most important thing — what I'll do is normally on social media, whether whatever platform it may be, I may find a hot, spicy take that somebody has on a comment or a post or something, and immediately I'll reach out because I don't want that idea to just kind of die in the ether of LinkedIn or in the comments and stuff like that. I want that conversation to really grow and glow. And so what I normally do is I'll look for guests just based on that. And then others that I connect with that maybe I'll meet at conferences and I see that they did a great presentation and just want to amplify that work. So for me, it's always that encouraging of others' work, helping them be seen and helping them see that wow, you know, my maybe my presentation did make an impact on somebody and now they get to come on the show and you know that my audience gets to listen to them and hear their thoughts and ideas and then they start connecting. And for me it's just kind of something natural for me that's always in my world — has always been a connector of people and just connecting the dots. And so that's something that I really love. And most importantly too, I mean the this I always say is my one hour of professional development that's personalized to me because I'm asking the questions, but that across the my listening space, everybody can go ahead and make those connections with and learn from as well. So that's something that's been very important to me, that professional development. And obviously we all grow personally through that too as well because there's been many times where I may have a certain idea that I may be so strongly an advocate for and then all of a sudden I was like, you know what? I never saw it that way. And I never saw that perspective. And to me, I right now, what I do in my podcast, since we talk so much about generative AI, when I first started, I was very like — and like, I don't want to say so anti, but like, hey man, like slow down, slow down, like, you know, keep it cool. And then you had the other side that's like, you know, run fast, break things and stuff like that. And then I finally just kind of started saying, you know what, I just want to be in the middle and see how we might bring both sides, you know, a little bit closer to the center, understanding that we are both well intentioned, but just to see how we might get our ideas across and be seen and be heard and just think of things through a different viewpoint. So I don't know. That's just something that that I think ever since I was very little, you know, I've always enjoyed, which is listening to people, sharing their knowledge and connecting people with others.

Seth (04:50.677)
Yeah, it's a similar story on this side of the mic. I really like that idea of especially on LinkedIn, these posts dying in the ether as opposed to this relic that remains on the internet with podcasts. It does feel like more of a structure than posts, which kind of just disappear. And sure, you can go back and find them. But they don't — their presence isn't quite the same as these conversations, right? These full conversations that exist within this body of work that is this podcast that has this unique perspective and personality. I like the idea of not just being a connector of people, but a connector of dots. I think that both of those things are true of me as well. I really love just meeting people — networking, like a lot of people, networking exhausts them, but it really invigorates me. And to be able to have this resource at my disposal of like, I've met this person. This person's special. I'm really jiving with who they are and what they do. Now I have this access to this medium where I can have a longer conversation with them and it becomes a relic that lives forever. And that feels really good. Personalized PD, I'd never really thought of it like that, but that is exactly what it is, right? Like it is — I am pursuing the questions that I have, and it's great to know that those questions resonate with my audience as well. In terms of generative AI, you do seem to have like a perspective around this. You were talking about like being in the middle. But something that's surfaced on your podcast recently has been this idea that the ultimate technology isn't AI, it's the teacher. And I'm wondering what do you actually mean by that, like in the classroom, like practically, not philosophically, like what does that mean for the classroom?

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza (06:59.9)
Yeah, absolutely. That's a great question. And that's actually a quote from Dr. Mark Zeiler, who was the guest. And it just blew me away, like, you know, with that comment, you know, and he said, you are the ultimate technology. Just to give some context and backstory — he said, you know, over the prior to recording, he had been at a restaurant where they had a robot server. And immediately he was just like, you know, you feel doom and gloom, like, man, this replaced somebody's job. This replaced somebody. But then he started seeing, like, okay, I can see the efficiency of this because now, you know, with so many moving parts, now the quality of food is a little bit better, things are a little bit better in some aspects and so on. But in the end, he said, you know, you are the ultimate technology as far as the human aspect.

I'm gonna go back to maybe two thousand and five when I first started teaching. And when I first started teaching, I came in from marketing and advertisement. I had been working in that for about two years, so I did have access to technology programs and things of that sort. But when I moved into the classroom, I was really like the only technology I had was just my computer and it was just like Word and Lotus Notes and all this other stuff just for gradebooks and stuff. So I'm really aging myself so much so that I'll share this with you. When I first became a teacher and they said, okay, here's your curriculum, they gave me two three-inch three ring binders full of transparencies. So I was using overheads and maybe some of our audience members nowadays may not know what an overhead is, but you know, look it up, Google it, what is an overhead projector, and you'll be able to see. And of course, I leave school with, you know, all different colors on my hand from the visivus markers and so on. So that was my technology, you know.

Seth (08:43.189)
Yeah, and a tan from the heat.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza (08:56.19)
Exactly. So that was my technology, you know. And but as the years progressed and so on, then I started going to technology conferences and being like, my gosh, like all of this is available and so on. So I think at the end of the day, you know, what he meant by that and what I take it to in my experience is we in the end, we are that ultimate decision maker. So as far as technology, yes, we as teachers, although many times our work is equated to robot work because it's menial, it's repetitive, and so on — and I'm talking about paperwork, I'm not talking about, you know, your tier one initial instruction when you're working with your students. Providing that support with students, you know — that's that human aspect of it. That's those connections. That's you as a teacher knowing how you are going to leverage the likes and dislikes of that student to provide the learning in a manner that they're gonna go ahead and understand. So that's that human connection. But as far as the ultimate technology, I think for myself, I take that as we are the final decision makers, the captains of our ship. Like I say, I always say, like once that door closes, I am the master of this domain. And I have a say in how we go and how we do and how we structure the lessons, the standards, and so on to do those things. So yeah, so for myself, all of us, I would say are a very unique technology. And I'm of course using that word in maybe not the way that it's meant to be, but we all have something in us — a thought process, critical thinking. We have all of those skills that help us move along and navigate this space. And more than anything, I think aside from the technology that is there — and I'm talking about like hardware, software, what we talk about right now — it's we have something that they don't have, which is the ability to improvise, adapt, and overcome on the spot. And that is something that technology is not able to do right away. So those are some of the things there. But at the end, you know, as far as we are the ultimate technology, we're the ones who decide. We're the ones who at the end of the day, you know, we are providing that nurturing, that caring, that support, that safe space to students, along with sharing the knowledge that they need to help them be successful. And, you know, that's the way that I took that. May still sound a little philosophical, but that's just the teacher me and the teacher heart in me coming out, you know.

Seth (11:25.825)
Yeah, I mean, you mentioned heart for me and I think for any good teacher, there's a recognition that learning is very social and we are social creatures and — you say that we have the ability to improvise, adapt, and overcome on the spot. I do think that that is one of the characteristics of LLMs that really differentiate it from other technologies, that it does feel human in that way, that there is seemingly adaptation and improvisation and being able to take new information and shift and change based on that new information. However, I think about how we're learning now about how all of these neurons exist in our gut. And LLMs are based — you know, they're neural networks, right? They're based on our brains. It's this idea that if you create enough electric neurons and connect them to each other and give them training data, that they will learn in a similar way that humans learn, which ultimately is a way that we do not understand. We don't actually understand how it works. But we understand that it's working in a similar way to our brains, and that's why they do what they do. But this element of the gut, right? And thinking being intuitive or at least seeming intuitive. There's a depth of understanding that comes from this human technology that I think LLMs maybe will never get to because they lack the entire physiological body. Like there's a lot of understanding and again it feels intuitive — intuitiveness that comes from the body and a lot of times we think it's the brain, we think that our brains have thought something but a lot of times what happens is that we feel something and then our brain makes sense of the feeling and then we articulate what our brain has made sense of but the root of it comes from our body. And so the fact that these machines lack a body and lack the temperature in the room, right? The being able to scan the emotional well-being of 30 kids at once — these skills that we maybe are born with, maybe we nurture over time. I agree with you that I know that LLMs don't have that now, and I'm not sure that they ever will. You also talk about these skills being ones that are human, but will they continue to be human if AI is used too much and the students don't — like, the term that I've been hearing recently is not just cognitive offloading, but cognitive stunting, right? That the types of things that we're asking, I mean — you mentioned critical thinking — the types of things that we're asking these LLMs to do are not just things that students have developed on their own and now they're offloading that skill to the LLM. Rather, a lot of them are skills that they haven't developed on their own and they're offloading it to the LLM. So it's skills that they may never develop and that could translate into a future where these human skills that make us different from the LLMs aren't our differentiators anymore. I don't know. Do you think about that? I mean you say you're in the middle, but where are your lines in terms of application?

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza (15:32.669)
Yeah, absolutely. So one of the things though that I try to avoid is the word borrowing. Now, one of the things — if you follow Dr. Emily Bender also on the stochastic parrots paper and so on — this is all a marketing term as far as generative AI or artificial intelligence. It's marketed to sell. So when we use words like neurons and so on to make something that is really a statistical predicting machine to see what word comes next — we're borrowing from that language and making it seem like it is something that is human and that it is intuitive, but you need retooling in order for it to make it seem like it's intuitive. So we just need to be very careful with that, just to make sure that we are not mixing both together and saying like, yes, this is a brain. And it's something that's living and so on, because it really isn't. We can't anthropomorphize that. And that's something that I fear is happening a lot.

But to your point, which is something that really caught my attention — because I do want to bring this up — when you said to what extent is it that we are gonna stunt our cognitive learning and so on? Because a couple of months back, I wanna say maybe about six months ago, a great friend of mine — she is just great, she posts on social media a lot — she said, you know what, guys? I just wanted to let you know I was getting ready for a keynote. And she's like, I already had this keynote done months in advance. Obviously, she shared how she used large language models to help with the keynote. When she got up there to talk, she said, it just felt weird because it wasn't me. It wasn't me that I was saying the words. I was sharing everything, but it wasn't me.

So right now, to your point, I completely agree with you on that — that to this point, much of what we're seeing online, much of the things that are being posted, myself included, I use generative AI. I mean, for just for a team of one. To be able to post so much as far as the podcast is concerned and things of that sort, you do need a little bit of help, but there comes a time when you start really thinking and questioning like, hey, like, how much of this am I really doing? And how much of this is the LLM doing? Now, as far as video editing is concerned, like, thank goodness for a lot of the technology that is out there, especially if you're a team of one — my goodness, that saves a lot of time. But then I do feel like what my friend was expressing is that many times we're hearing the same words where there's articles where now there's a pattern, words that are being used more often, things that were never said as often. Now I don't know to what extent it can be. Yes, I do believe that there is some change there. And then maybe sometimes we just never paid attention to it. Like sometimes when you're driving down the road and you see a Volkswagen Beetle and you're like, man, I hardly ever see those. And then all of a sudden you see like 10 that come your way. And I'm like, maybe I just never noticed them because they were never on my radar. But I do agree with you on that — that's what really scares me. And it scares a lot of my friends that are in the classroom. They say, like, to what point am I really reading my students' work? And at what point are they turning into the tool? And even teachers — at what point am I turning into this kind of machine or statistical predicting machine as well? And that's the thing that is very difficult because of the promise of the technology to make things more efficient. Obviously, which teacher doesn't want efficiency? Before you know it, automation takes over. And I'm gonna be very honest here. When people say robots will never take our job, you're showing them exactly that they can because we're automating everything. And that's what scares me too in the long run.

There is a school district that has already adopted a humanoid robot for their school. This is the first year they're doing it and it's kind of like a pilot program. And they're saying the principal, superintendent — they're like, well, I know that this technology isn't ready, but we're piloting it and we're gonna do it and we're gonna use it and we're gonna see how this may work with our students. I'm like, what a risk.

Seth (20:30.946)
What's it — what's its job? What's it supposed to do?

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza (20:43.49)
In the classroom. It's supposed to be there like a teacher assistant.

Seth (20:43.490)
Like a teacher's assistant? Yeah, okay. Huh.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza (20:46.684)
In the classroom. And I'm thinking to myself, I was like, man, liability right away. I'm thinking, like, if — have you seen those videos where those humanoid little bots will go and like they'll kick humans or like they'll punch humans and stuff. Imagine a little kid just getting, you know, karate kicked in the chest and breaking ribs. I mean, you know, but I get it. Like I mean, I and I don't know sometimes what to think. I know the intent is good. But is it the right time and have we done enough research to be able to see that this would work in a classroom? And then now are we starting to see a preview of what's to come? Because then they're gonna say, well, this is gonna be cheaper for me than an actual human or a para. And then slowly we're gonna start seeing change in education. Now we all have been asking for change in education, but I don't think this is the type of change that we were wanting, which is to get replaced — not this way, but maybe being supported, being able to provide the students with the tools and platforms that they need. There's so many variables there. But at the end of the day, right now, what I'm seeing is due to a lot of social media, this change is coming and a lot of people are welcoming it into their schools and classrooms and that's very scary. But again, to your extent, I that's really — what you said really brought this out — the fact that how long before we start sounding and doing and being like the things that we don't want in our classrooms. And that's the weird part about it, don't you think? Now with so much of the AI everywhere around us. We ourselves as adults are like just hey, automate, do this, you know, turn on and off lights, you know, those menial robotic tasks. But now it's getting to that level of, hey, send this message, send this email, and it's not really you. No matter how much you say, well, I programmed my voice and I had to do this and make it sound like this, and I gave it an artifact and so on — it's never ever going to be you and it's never ever going to sound like you. And I think sometimes in our minds we say, yeah, this really does sound like me. But you're kind of maybe even convincing yourself to think that it does sound like you, but it really isn't. You know, so those are some of my concerns.

Seth (23:24.052) *(approx)*
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot there. Some good stories. One of the things is you're talking about like, you know, has enough research been done for us to feel confident putting some of this stuff out there in front of students. I mean, this is a problem with educational research in general, is that ultimately there's no control in the experiment, right? Like you just kind of have to put it out there and see what happens. Because you can't research it in a clinical setting that is going to be similar enough to a school setting to ultimately understand what the actual impact is going to be of this given intervention. And then you just have to try it. So I guess kudos to the people for trying the humanoid robot part. Like, not a decision I would make, but if they feel like it can bring some value, then it'll at least be interesting to see what happens. But it'll be data for the rest of us to learn from.

But I think in the story of the keynote and automation in general, because you also mentioned up at the top about jobs being taken by AI. And I do think that this is ultimately an automation story more than anything else. Like, yes, AI is the word that we use to describe this particular machine, which has capabilities that go way beyond previous iterations of machines that can do human jobs. But ultimately, it is a question of machines replacing the work that humans do and what impact that has on humans as a society. When I hear your colleague say that it wasn't me in the keynote, what I hear underneath that is this idea of like really mattering. And maybe it's more of — how much did I matter for creating this keynote? And previously, before these tools existed, you could say that pretty much 100%. Maybe there's credit that you're giving to various people who helped you arrive at the conclusions that you arrived at, but you were the synthesizer, you wrote all the words, you went up and delivered it. That was your keynote.

You mentioned the team of one. That's so many of us nowadays — especially creative projects that we're doing on our own. And all these tools that exist that make it a lot easier to create. And there's help that it's giving you. And I think that for any given person, finding that line of where they matter — how much help are you willing to get from these things in order to feel — cause really it's a feeling, right? In order to feel that I still was the creator of this. I had help, but I created this. This is my work. I think that that's the important part not just of developing a keynote, but of any work that you do in an AI world where automation is rampant. How do you find meaning when the job at the supermarket, which is super menial and feels like a repetitive task — and if it was a video game, it would be a boring video game — but still had some dignity attached to it, still had this idea of like, well, I'm contributing to society, right? I matter because of this job that I have. And so many Americans, especially, get their sense of purpose and meaning from their jobs. And so if we're embarking on this period in time when so many of these jobs are going to be automated away, like how do you approach a keynote and acknowledge that you are going to get some help from AI and still feel like you were the thing that mattered in that keynote? How do you find a purpose when you've been laid off from your job, where you're going to continue to contribute to society, maybe regardless of whether or not you're able to earn income for that? That to me feels like it's at the center of all of these questions that are being asked right now. Does that resonate with you?

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza (28:11.624)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, as you're saying that and talking about finding meaning — and I'm sure you saw it, you know, this past spring, like May and so on, all those graduation ceremonies, you know, everybody booing the commencement speakers when they would mention AI and you need to do this with AI because AI is gonna do this — and all the boos. Well, I mean, this is the generation that really cares also too about, you know, the environment. And there's a tight connection to that with climate and so on. So that's this generation that's coming up that just graduated, that is booing the commencement speakers and so on. And then you've got Gen Alpha who's coming up that they already have LLMs on their phones. They already know how to maneuver all of this. So it's almost like a cycle. But at the same time, like you said, the world is going to be very different for them because they're already kind of growing up in it. For us, it just — even for myself — it just came through right now, to what was it, four years ago. And it's like we're navigating this space. The next generation is like, no, I am anti generative AI because of climate, because of environment, no to data centers. And then who knows — Gen Alpha, who's already growing up with this, is probably gonna be needing more than this. And they're gonna be taking this to a whole new level.

So it really does cause me to think a little bit about what you're saying too, and in finding that meaning in your space, in your generation, and what is it that you can do to feel part of it, that you are a productive member? And that is something that's very interesting — I wanna thank you for because I never really thought about that. And again, being in the K-12 space, you know, we talk near and dear to what is happening within the K-12 space. But being able to speak with you today has really helped me see more beyond that, you know, and beyond my bubble of K-12. And I think that's something that's very important that I hadn't thought about — is people finding their meaning in their work as these tools get better, as these tools get more efficient. But then at the same time, you see those stories of, well, we've just replaced 15% of our workforce with AI and this is great. And all of a sudden they got the token bill. And they're like, you know what? Let's bring all the workers back. So hey guys, we're gonna bring you back, but we still want you to install Codex and use that. So it's like, what?

Seth (30:49.326)
Yeah, and that's at a tenth of the price of what it actually costs, right? Yeah.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza (30:55.768)
Yeah, exactly. So right now we're in that season — for us, I think, Seth, I don't know if you would agree with this — but right now we are all improvising, adapting, and overcoming through the situation and trying to figure things out as well ourselves, as to where are we fitting in since we're at the beginning, at that moment of ignition here. And then how that's gonna lay out things for future generations. So it's very interesting.

Seth (31:27.927) *(approx)*
Yeah. I do have a question for you coming very recently from a long career at a school district. How are you seeing school districts respond to this AI policy, AI governance issue? Like what are some of the mistakes that you see districts making and what are some of the things that you're seeing that they're getting right?

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza (31:54.269)
Okay, great question. Now, believe it or not, Texas — and I'm from Texas — no matter how great I think my state is, Texas does not even have an AI policy in education. There's about five states still that don't have anything yet at all whatsoever. So that's the very scary part. One of the biggest states out there does not have anything in place for AI policy in education. Now, congratulations to the other states that have taken the initiative and have moved forward and navigating through this space and just being very active in seeing what is coming, what is in there, and trying to have those conversations and actually following through on those conversations. And the reason I say that following through is because I think that the districts that have fallen behind are the ones that'll start the conversation and know that this is an important topic. But what happens is that conversation dies out as the cadence of the school year comes about. It's like, okay, now we're back to school. It's PD, it's curriculum writing, it's this, it's that. And then all of a sudden come January, it's testing season, and then the whole year's awash because now you don't have anything else because you're focused on that.

So one of the biggest mistakes, I truly believe, is that there is not any follow through on those conversations. You really need to allocate some time — and I mean to really block it off — to create a small contingency of your colleagues, a small task force, that does have equal representation. That's the other thing that I feel a lot of districts don't have — equal representation — where at the end of the day, it's one director makes one decision. And that's the way it goes. Why? Because maybe one, they may not want to spend a lot of time putting in the work because as we know, there's a cadence to the school year. Number two, they may not be as knowledgeable, but at least it's a way for them to start. And then so they're the ones making the sole decision. But at the end, we need to see the bigger picture and we do need more people at the table to be able to make those decisions, including parents.

It sounds like a lot of work. Yes, there is going to be some work to get this going. But once you have it, you're set. It's like you set it, and then every year as something comes up, you adapt and say, okay, now we're gonna add this piece because this is what we just saw. But at least now you have a framework, you have something that is there in writing that everybody — from the top all the way down, superintendents, mid-level directors, principals, teachers, students, and parents — know about. And I think that's the main point too, that you need to get parents involved. Parents should know. And we know right now there's a lot of that tech backlash and so on. But I feel that if there was better communication as far as what is being used at school, how it's being used, and there's an explanation as to the why — and not just tell them because just because, but tell them why — I think that that would also put some peace of mind, give parents peace of mind as to the tech use or screen time. Because not all screen time is quality screen time. And most of the quality screen time I would say is probably happening at school. But I'll be honest: there is some screen time there that may not be heavily educational, or it may just be — there are some bad actors that will just say, well, here, get on the program for 90 minutes, that's the class, and that's all you do. I can't say that that doesn't happen, but we need to have better checks in place to make sure that that is not happening because we want what's best for our students in the classroom.

But going back originally — have the conversation. Put something down in writing. And it doesn't have to be something that's 10 pages, 100 pages. Start off with something simple as far as which platforms are allowable. Who is going to be able to use those platforms? Is it teacher only? Is it student-facing? Is it teacher and student facing? Decide based on your school tech stack what you have available, what is best for that district or for your school. Start with that. You're gonna get pushback from teachers that are gonna say, well, I just went to ISTE or I went to TCEA or I went to FETC, and this is the new app that I saw, and I want to use it. It's okay to say no. And teachers — no is an acceptable answer. So please, it doesn't mean that you're never not gonna use it. It just means that give us some time at the district level. We wanna vet this, we want to make sure, number one, that you're not paying anything out of pocket. Number two is that if we do move forward with this, we have research, we have time to use it to make sure it is effective and it's not just a shiny new tool. Budgets are tight. Those are some of the things to think about and just move forward with. Start simple, build from there. But include your stakeholders in those conversations.

Seth (39:17.230) *(approx)*
Yeah, I think that inclusion of stakeholders is so critical, especially for this technology, because it's an arrival technology that all of a sudden is everywhere. It's being used by almost everyone, even if they know they're using it or not. And the thing I think about with AI adoption, with AI policy, with AI governance, more than anything is this idea of trust and the way that it's affecting the relationships between students and teachers, between parents and schools. For me, trust is — it's almost a biological thing. I had Catherine Heavers on this podcast recently talking about the evolutionary components of trust, of needing to know that the words you're using match your actions because that allows me in this clan of 50 people to know that you're going to actually watch while I'm sleeping and keep me safe. And I think what's happening right now is — especially in situations where there aren't at least that base statement around, you know, these are our intentions with AI — is a lot of mystery around how is my teacher using it, from the student perspective, right? That's getting not enough attention — this idea that students are accusing their teachers of using AI too much and not giving them the feedback that they deserve, to be seen as people and matter in that way. Obviously the student cheating element of it has been a trust issue from the beginning. But also the trust of the output, of whether or not the output is factual and how to know that. But my Gen Alpha kid — my son — thinks everything is AI, calls BS on everything and says it's all not true because it's all AI, right? So that's going in the opposite direction there. And a lot of that comes from his teacher, who is just giving him informal opinions about AI, rather than some kind of formal AI literacy program, which is not happening at his school. And so that trust piece, that transparency piece — it all stems from what is our intention with this? And that intention has to be written down and shared with everybody.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza (40:13.992)
Yeah. No, I agree with you and I think that's something that goes back to that relationship component. But oftentimes I think too, when in the classroom the technology becomes kind of like the star and is front and centered, we've kind of lost the plot there. I always say like good tech is one that is gonna be kind of invisible and it just fits in with your workflow and it just doesn't feel like — we're doing our lesson on World War II, and now we're using this tech. No, it's just something that just kind of flows and it is just there, you know. And sometimes I think that once the tech feels like the protagonist in the room, it really turns a lot of students off because now it's like, well, now I gotta learn something new. Now I got a new password. Now I got this. And then students know very well — they are great observers of what a teacher does. And I absolutely agree with what you said very much in the beginning, that your guest shared, that your words match your actions. And that's why I feel that it's very important too that the parents are part of the stakeholder group because they will hold you accountable, but they also want to put their trust in you. They're entrusting their child with you for eight hours a day for K through 12, you know, thirteen years together. And so you do need to build that trust and share with them that we do have your children's best interest in mind and that what I say here is the same way that it's gonna be heard out there with the parents and there is that congruency there. And that's something that's very important. But also with teachers, I think that's important too, because there are a lot of teachers that are a team of one in their classroom. And as a team of one, that's their creative space and they do need that help and support because there's a lot of things that are coming. Because what happens — I always said I always was the master of my ship once I closed that door. But once that door opens, man, I just felt overwhelmed because once that door opens, it's open to principals, it's open to directors, it's open to this. And more paperwork and things of that sort. So I think there also needs to be some work done within the inner workings of the system and how things are done to make them also feel a little bit more efficient. So that way the teachers can really focus on what they do best, which is teaching and obviously building those relationships with the students and taking them to that next level. So the lesson just doesn't feel very superficial, but you're actually going in deeper now and having those conversations and having that discourse in class. But again, going back to what we were saying, so many variables at play right now. And it's tough out there. It's tough in the classrooms right now.

Seth (43:17.230) *(approx)*
Sure. Yeah, not just efficient, but intentional, right? And that's the name of the podcast — Make It Mindful, right? Like, this is stuff that a lot of times we make these mindless decisions. But if we can really dig deep into what we believe is the way things should be and have a real, firm understanding of why that is and use that to guide us in our decision making, that's a more mindful approach. Well Fonz, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for doing this with me. Is there anything you want to close with? Any question you wanted to pursue or thing that you wanted to leave with my listeners and yours?

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza (43:58.927)
Yes, of course. I always love to end the show — and since we're cross-posting, guys, I just want to let you know, so that's why the show may sound a little different. But this has been a great conversation. But Seth, I always end the show with three questions. It's kind of my little speed round questions. Now, I know maybe you're not familiar with the three questions. So I'm just gonna kind of put you on the spot here. They're not too hard, but I would just love to hear your answers. So here we go. You ready? Okay. As we know, every superhero has a pain point or weakness. So for Superman, that kryptonite was the one thing that weakened him. I want to ask you, Seth, in the current state of education, what would you say is your current edu kryptonite?

Seth (44:45.996)
Are you saying for me personally or am I saying this for education in general?

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza (44:51.045)
No, you personally.

Seth (45:18.988) *(approx — after cut)*
I heard this said the other day at an ed tech meetup here in Portland. And I thought it was really interesting. The difference between — because I run a company — the difference between building something that you think is good for schools and building something that schools will actually buy. And I have spent a lot of my career building things that I think are good for schools. And I have a very successful part of our company that has enabled me to do that for years because we've got this main operation that runs like a machine at this point and keeps everything else afloat. Within the educational landscape though, you know — people pay less for vitamins than they do for painkillers. And that has been a tension within me for a long time, of like, how do I balance what I believe is good for education with what I think people will pay for, which sometimes is a byproduct of a broken system. So I'm not sure if that's quite what it is, but that's where my mind went.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza (46:46.234)
No, that's a great answer. That was a nice gem there that you dropped. That's clippable right there. So looking forward to clipping that and sharing because that was really good. All right, Seth, question number two. If you could have a billboard with anything on it, what would it be and why?

Seth (47:14.988) *(approx — after cut)*
I am obsessed with now and the idea that now is all we ever get. And I think that people who are oriented towards now — for me, it's related to breath. It's related to gratitude. Breath is the mechanism of how I reach now and gratitude is the byproduct of reaching now. And it might just be like, you know, be here now, like Ram Dass, but I think it's amazing how much now we get. And it would be something like that.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza (48:03.090)
I love it. I had never heard that before, but it really — the way that you explained it. And as I was, yeah, as you were sharing that, I just visualized just the word now. That's it. Nothing else. Just, kind of like in a black background, kind of like with a gradient, kind of grayish white — now — like something that just pops. And just because I think everybody's gonna have a different definition, but I really love the way that you described yours and especially talking about the breath of it and man that really resonated. Like I really do appreciate that. That's a good one. All right, Seth, my last question to you is if you could trade places with anyone for a single day, who would that be and why?

Seth (48:51.148)
Trade places. Man. Just went kind of dark for a second. I was thinking politics and I but I'm a step away from that. Like my question — my answer, my question of like who would you like to have dinner with has always been like Barack Obama. I think it'd be really interesting to just get that perspective for a day. And maybe it'd be interesting to be him for a day. But I've suffered like a lot of body health stuff. Like I had my hip replaced a year and a half ago. I would honestly — I would probably trade places with my younger self, but I would bring my current brain into my younger body and I would, I don't know, play sports for a day. Because I'm limited in what I'm able to do now. But I wouldn't trade me for that version of me ever because I love middle age. I love the confidence that comes with maturity and knowing yourself. And I wouldn't trade that for any physical ability, but I do miss basketball. So.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza (50:04.986)
All right. Well, thank you so much for sharing that. I mean, that's very, very open of you to share. And I really appreciate that. You know, oftentimes it's — everybody trades places with somebody, but this was one of the nicer answers that really got me like, man, that's great. So thank you, Seth. I really appreciate it. And thank you again for inviting me on your podcast. I appreciate that. Do you mind if I plug my podcast?

Seth (50:26.142)
Yeah, thank you, please do.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza (50:30.514)
All right, guys. So everybody, if you'd like to hear more about My EdTech Life, visit our website at myedtech.life. And I promise you you'll find some great episodes there that you can sprinkle on some little gems into what you are already doing. And you can find me on all social media at My EdTech Life and also on LinkedIn as well. So very active there. Feel free to reach out. And I'm here for you. Anything that you may need help on or if you want to be a guest, just shoot me a message.

Seth (51:00.910)
Dang, your game is much tighter than mine. I'm Seth. You can find me on LinkedIn as well. Make It Mindful is the name of my podcast. We talk a lot about how students learn, who they're becoming, and how global experiences and new technologies are reshaping teaching. And my company is named Banyan Global Learning. The program we're working with right now is called Global Cohorts. We connect classrooms to other classrooms throughout the world. So it's a cultural competence piece. It is an ability for students to communicate cross-culturally, to share their ideas about their own culture with people from other cultures. We do this all over distance learning. And it's a really great program. We'd love to talk to you if you're interested in reaching out and leveraging the technology for what it can bring, which is new people, new places, and fresh ideas. So that's my plug. Thanks so much, Fonz. This is great.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza (52:09.865)
Thank you, Seth. Appreciate you.

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**[OUTRO — recorded separately]**

That's a wrap on our conversation with Dr. Alfonso Mendoza Jr. Fonz told a story about a colleague who built her keynote with AI and then stood at the podium feeling like the words weren't hers — which is a useful test for any AI-assisted work: not whether the output is good, but whether you recognize yourself in it. That question scales up, too. It's not just keynotes — it's any work that gives people their sense of purpose. You can find My EdTech Life wherever you listen to podcasts, or at myedtech.life. Thanks for listening to Make It Mindful, and we'll see you next time.