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Pilot Episode - Baseball Talk
Bobby Roberts (00:02)
Alright, well here we go! Welcome to another episode of the Fuzz and Barrels podcast. I am your host Bobby Roberts and today we have a very special guest. Our guest today is coached all the way from Little League to Varsity High School. He's been an umpire for over 25 years. I don't know how he does it and keeps his sanity. He's been a lead president, I'm sorry, a coordinator of umpires for over 10 years.
a league president out in California for six years, all kinds of different accolades. Please welcome today our very special guest, Mr. Juan Bustos. And I already messed up your name, it's Bustos. Oh, I got it right, it's Bustos. Okay, perfect, perfect, perfect. All right, so there we go. So Juan, man, thanks so much for having us, or not for having us, for me having you, but thanks so much for coming on today.
Juan Bustos (00:42)
Hey. No, you got it right. It's boostos. You got it right. Yeah, it's boostos.
Bobby Roberts (00:59)
It's awesome the stuff that you do on all the social media where you're chiming in on all the rules and everything. So I really appreciate you coming on today. We're going to spend some time just really talking about baseball stuff. So I'd like to just get started on, man, just tell me a little bit about yourself and really key in on what made you get into the crazy profession of umpiring. I'm really interested to hear about that.
Juan Bustos (01:26)
Yeah, no thanks. Thanks for having me. First of all, thanks for having me. Um, you know, so it was, I don't know what got me into it. I don't know what brought me to umpire, but I remember I was 10 years old playing, um, um, in our Pee Wee league that we had back then. Then I aged out and I became an 11 year old, aged out, went up to the next league over and somehow my coach before for my little league, for my Pee Wee league.
said, hey, we need two umpires each at the time each team needed to provide two umpires. So he had his son and he said, do you want to umpire the other game? I was like, um, sure. Why not? My brother was on the team. So I was like, let me be there anyway. Maybe that's what could prompted it. Um, but other than that, and then I did that at the end of the year, they gave me like a hundred bucks. Cause I did like 10 games or something like that. This was 1991, right? I was making big money. You know, you get a hundred bucks when you're 10 years old. You know, you're, you're, you're in the money.
Bobby Roberts (02:12)
All of them.
You are rich!
Juan Bustos (02:24)
Exactly. So after that, I was like, dude, I think I kind of like this. So I think the next year they kind of had a little more formal training and there was a little bit more formal. There were two umpires at each game and they weren't provided by the teams. They were provided by the leagues and I just kind of stuck with it for a little while. I didn't do it. I don't know if they just didn't like me, didn't call me back, whatever case may be, got back into it and then just kind of started going to it. It was my only job. I was in college or high school, college. It's like, you know,
making decent money, right? And they feed me between games, so I got food and I get money. Then I started coaching. I actually started coaching while I was umpiring. I started coaching my first year was I was 17 years old and I took over my dad's team because he was a coach in the league. And I wanted to do both and I was like, okay, I'm coaching 13 and 14 year old kids and the 12 year old, so the Bronco, we were Bronco league. The Bronco league needs umpires. So if I umpire, I'm going to get paid.
Bobby Roberts (03:05)
Oh.
Juan Bustos (03:22)
to watch the kids that I need to draft for next year. So this is getting paid to be scouted. It was just starting all coming together. This is great. Then the older guys, they got real jobs and they went to school or they were playing, they were coaching. And I was the only loser that stuck around, I guess. So I just kind of stuck with it, kept on piring. And at some point I kind of figured, all right, I was an okay player. I was decent. I wasn't great. I was...
Bobby Roberts (03:36)
you
Right.
Juan Bustos (03:50)
I was the type of player that made the All -Star teams his second year, not his first year. So, you know, I was okay. Got older and I was like, all right, well, I could keep on piring, but at some point, you know, things are moving a little too fast for me. And I'll just stick with the 12 years, 14 year olds. I got up to high school. I did some high school games, but it dawned on me. I said, you know, it takes absolutely zero talent to read the rule book and then to understand it.
Let me do that. I want to be the go -to guy. Hey, I'll be the go -to guy on the rules. If they have a rule question, they come to me and I can figure it out or I'll look it up. One thing that people ask me, I never went to umpiring school. I know people went to umpiring school. I've gone to a couple local little trainings and stuff like that, but I never went to school. My school was read the rule book. I bought the umpire manual for like 20 bucks, read the manual. And if I'm still stuck,
Bobby Roberts (04:25)
Yeah, yeah.
Juan Bustos (04:47)
Um, Zuber who's on, on your, uh, Tik Tok a lot. I hit him. We kind of became friends on Facebook. We became friendly. I'm like, Hey, Zub, what do you think? You know, I'll ask him a question. Um, there's a couple of Facebook pages that are really good baseball umpires umpires, um, have some pro, uh, ex major league umpires on that page that are really good that, you know, you can DM them and they get back to you and they don't ask you a question. I'm like, this is a former major league umpire. And he's answering my questions. Like, this is a cool guy.
Bobby Roberts (05:04)
Really?
Juan Bustos (05:17)
So it's just really asking questions, being curious about the rules, being curious about different situations and watching a lot of games. I can almost guarantee you, you haven't seen every scenario that people shoot to you. But now that we are in the social media age, you don't have to watch a lot of games to see a lot of crazy stuff. Your page is full of them. I'm sure people send you or tag you like, hey, check out this play. Hey, check out this play.
And you kind of get a breakdown and go, Oh, that was weird. That was interesting. Um, but yeah, so that's kind of been my umpire journey. And then just as I was sticking around in the league, um, they're like, Hey, do want to help coordinate umpires and train the umpires and you'll be an assigner. And then that turned into being a board member that turned into being a president in the same league that I coached for. I've been coaching for there for, like I said, for, for a lot of years. Um, I will say one of the other coaches, it kind of.
Bobby Roberts (05:54)
That is
Juan Bustos (06:14)
I always tell people that baseball is like the same as Sosa. It's been very, very good to me. Very, very good to me. I tell people, baseball has been great. I mean, I've grown a lot of friendships through baseball. People that I would never meet, people that still I've never met. Went overseas when I was 14. I played in a trip in Canada. When I was 16 in Mexico. Then I coached, I've coached in Mexico, Italy, Nicaragua. So.
Bobby Roberts (06:32)
Oh wow.
Juan Bustos (06:43)
You know, gone a bunch of different places and you know, just baseball's been great. It's a great sport. You're never done learning. You're never done seeing what you think you've seen the latest, greatest ever. It's just, it's awesome. So it's a, it's great to be able to kind of enjoy the journey too, through social media with people that again, you'd never see it and never meet in your life. You and I would never have crossed paths. You're, when I was in California, you're clearly on the other side of the country. Here, you're still quite a ways away, but here we are connected.
Bobby Roberts (07:00)
It's amazing and you know, it's like you said you mentioned a minute ago I get tagged on so much stuff right like I've got a pretty I've got a one day I'll show you how so I will share it here on how I kind of got my my to my channel kind of blew up but
Juan Bustos (07:12)
And yeah, it's incredible.
Bobby Roberts (07:30)
I get tagged on so much stuff. It's like, hey, what about this play? What about this play? And here's a video of this and here's a video of that. Then every once in a while I'll post one and that someone has sent me and I'm like, okay, yeah, I'll post that and we'll talk about it. And then someone will say, hey, you used my video and you didn't even give me credit for it. And I'm like, I didn't know it was yours. It's just floating around the internet. Like, and what's hilarious is I will see people use the stuff that I put out with me on it and like on Instagram.
or in other places and it's...
Juan Bustos (07:58)
Yeah. You've come across on my Facebook pages a couple of times. Yeah.
Bobby Roberts (08:02)
It's me talking and me whatever and I'm like I but for me I could care less like look this is not even like some of the videos that I personally shoot like the one that I should the one that I just posted with the kid the suicide squeeze play where he slid in I that was me holding the camera filming that that was our team that so like but I know that place is gonna be floating around and I don't care if other people use it because everyone learns from it so like whatever but
Juan Bustos (08:26)
Mm -hmm.
Bobby Roberts (08:31)
But I know that some people get a little crazy about that, but here's a good story. And I'm not gonna put you on the spot and you might even disagree with the answer, I don't know. But, so TikTok, I was in Smashville baseball, shout out Smashville baseball, it's one of our indoor facility here in Louisville. Anyway, we were doing a camp with some of the kids and they were like, hey, put us on TikTok, because I was filming some stuff. I'm like, what is TikTok? And so...
I set up an account and I do it and I started putting some stuff up there. Well, I started posting some things and then I started posting some rules stuff and I was doing helping some kids out with with with uh, helping them get into college to play college baseball and all these other things. And so anyway, then I saw this, I didn't generate the question. I read it somewhere or saw it or something, but I just put it on TikTok and I said, okay, in in in one official at bat, how many pitches can you see without swinging the bat? And everyone says six, they're like ball one, ball two, ball three.
strike one, strike two, and then the sixth pitch either has to be a walk or a strike out. So it's six pitches. Well, what I've learned is that it's ball one, ball two, ball three, strike one, strike two, somebody gets out on the base pass, you come back up and then you take strike one, strike two, ball one, and so the answer is 11. And so, cause on that 11th pitch, that's when it's either strike three or ball four. And so I put that out there on TikTok. I get an email from MLB network.
that says, hey, we want to use your TikTok on the MLB network. And I thought it was spam or whatever. I look at the email, I look at the email address, I'm like, okay, that's real. I look at the person, I'm like, okay, she's real. And so I'm like, sure. And so anyway, I said, when's it gonna air? And they told me 11 different times and this and this and this. And so sure enough, it's on the MLB network. They've got the like rules official, the umpire official out there or no, the official score. That's what it was out there or something. They read the trivia question to all the guys on there. They all got it wrong.
Juan Bustos (10:03)
Hahaha.
Bobby Roberts (10:27)
And then they break over to the guy and he says, and he did 11, but so then my TikTok just started follow, follow, follow, follow, follow. Cause it was all over the MLB network. It was, and I picked up like 20 ,000 followers. So.
Juan Bustos (10:38)
That's crazy. That's awesome. Yeah, I saw that I want to say that was one of the first videos I saw of yours It was either that one or the squeeze where the guy slides in it was one of those two Because I remember you asking that question. I got it wrong. I said six And I'm like a scorer guy too because my dad when you know when I was a kid he'd play softball I was like, oh cool. I hang around I'll keep score so someone taught me how to how to keep book if I remember being nine years old, you know keep a book and then
Bobby Roberts (10:48)
Yeah.
Juan Bustos (11:07)
We had our official scorekeeper for my baseball team. I don't if he had to leave earlier, went to the bathroom or something or other. And the three other adult coaches are looking around like, who knows how to keep book? And I said, I could keep book. And they kind of looked like, all right. Well, here. They said, well, who's up? And I said, number four's up. And they couldn't even read that. They were like, oh, OK. I guess he does know how to do book. I'm thinking about that now as an adult going. You guys didn't even know that part.
So I like, I liked the rules. I liked the scorekeeping stuff like that. And then the fact that you posted that I was like, dude, that was really good. Like that's a really good question. And that MLB picked up on it. That's pretty interesting. That's.
Bobby Roberts (11:36)
Yeah, and on my page, I'm gonna, I need to repost this because, and here's what's hilarious. You know how what we do, right? I make a question, you guys answer it, I'll repost it, everyone still argues, even though you guys put the rules and everything.
Juan Bustos (12:01)
Yeah.
Bobby Roberts (12:01)
So anyway, when I did the whole thing with the six and so, and I said, if you don't believe me, believe the MLB network. And I posted the clip from the MLB network with my picture and them answering the question. Still everyone arguing with me. No, that's not true. Someone could stand there and they can just keep the, they don't swing the bat and the ball just keeps hitting it. It's a foul ball. It's un - and I'm like, oh my gosh, you guys are blowing my mind. So anyways, it's crazy.
Juan Bustos (12:17)
Of course.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I know one guy on Facebook, like I'm part of this Facebook page, professional baseball advice, coaching advice, I forget what the exact title is, but it's got almost 200 ,000 members. Like there's a lot of members on that one. And I think one of the big reasons is the moderators do a really good job of getting off all the trash. You know, there's a lot of people that think they know something or
The worst is, and this is where we'll talk about the rules, is where a lot of rule myths come from. When I was nine, this happened and my coach told me that that's the rule because he didn't know or someone told him that because when you coach, you coach the way you were coached until you learned something different. And so when someone tells you something, you just kind of go, oh, okay. Then heaven forbid someone tell you something different that your, other than your 10 year old coach told you in Little League back in 1987.
It just blows your mind, blows up your whole world. But I'm on these pages and I'll do the same thing. I do like I do on yours. If you see my TikTok, half of it is just rule citations that are like, here's the rule, here's the rule, here's the rule. And one guy said, I can't stand you. You're a know -it -all. I was like, I'm not a know -it I'm just telling you what the rule is. But if you want to call it a know -it -all, fine. Like I said, it takes no talent to read the rule book and to even do a little bit of understanding.
Bobby Roberts (13:39)
It's
Juan Bustos (13:49)
on it. It doesn't. Or just to even ask questions, but to just argue. My favorite is you'll never piss off someone more than just asking for forwards. What rule says that? And the common one I get, well, look it up. I'm like, you're the one that said it's a rule. Why do I have to look it up? Well, you don't know what you're doing. Google's free. I was like, yeah.
Bobby Roberts (14:03)
you
Right.
Yeah, good. Goes both ways. So how much are you umpiring right now? Like, I mean, are you doing a lot of games a little bit or just?
Juan Bustos (14:14)
Great.
None. None. I haven't umpired a game in probably two or three years, to be honest. I moved, so I moved my last year in California. My last season was 22. And I didn't do any good there. I was league president. We were merging leagues. So I was involved in stuff like that. Assigning still and coaching.
Bobby Roberts (14:25)
Oh really? Okay.
Juan Bustos (14:48)
So I didn't have time to do many games, umpire many games. 2023 we moved from California to Florida. And my son, he's going to be eight. We didn't have him play that year just because we were between towns. So we didn't really know where he was going to be going, where he was going. And then this year I got suckered into coaching his nine -year little league team, which is fun, but.
Bobby Roberts (14:49)
Sir.
Juan Bustos (15:14)
I didn't want to coach. I just didn't want to coach my kid if I could get away with it, but they needed coaches. I said, okay, I'll do it. Um, so it's been a few years since I've, since I've umpired, since I've actually umpired. Um, but I mean, before then it was my, my wife told my daughter, my daughter must've been six or seven years old when the last season started. And she said, Hey, this is the time of year that we don't see daddy anymore. Cause I'm either coaching him. I would coach a game like.
I'll take the four o 'clock game because I got to umpire the nine, 1130 and two o 'clock game. And then I'll run over after I'm done umpiring those three games. And then we'll schedule my game on Wednesday because there's only one game on Wednesday at this other field. So that means that I can umpire on Tuesday and Thursday. And if we have a makeup game on Friday. So before that, I mean, I was umpiring, you know, four or five, six days a week, uh, just depending on who needed where, what tournament was going on.
Bobby Roberts (15:58)
Yeah. Gotcha.
Juan Bustos (16:09)
if there was a tournament. I remember one weekend I did Memorial Day weekend. I think I did 14 games in three days or something like that. So I'd done a lot of umpiring, but just recently I haven't been able to just life being in the way of moving across the country and getting settled in getting so hard. So I, at my son's game, I saw the majors and the, what was it? Little League juniors, junior, senior league, whatever it is.
Bobby Roberts (16:33)
That's funny what
Juan Bustos (16:38)
guys on piring and I kind of started getting the like oh you guys are on piring games huh maybe I can get back out there and so I do want to get back out there it's just it's been a little while since I've been able to to actually do it though.
Bobby Roberts (16:52)
So speaking of when you were out there then, let's have some fun with this. So I'm curious to know like, when you were umpiring, were there any like crazy plays that happened or any crazy things that you saw on the field or any crazy situations, either it be with out of control coaches, out of control parents, just anything that was just like, oh my gosh, you gotta, let me tell you this, any of those types of things?
Juan Bustos (17:19)
Oh, yeah. Definitely. I'll tell you a situation that came up. So I remember, did you ever did you ever read Baseball Digest? I don't know if it's still around. Yeah, way back in the. Yeah, yeah, it was a small book. Exactly. Yeah, I had TV Guide. Oh, yeah. No, my kids would look at me like, what do you mean TV Guide? I'm just looking up right there. But yeah, it was just like that. And I remember they had like a little umpire's corner. You make the call type of thing.
Bobby Roberts (17:28)
I think way back in the day, it was a small book like, yeah, like a TV guide, well, I'm aging myself, yeah, like a TV guide. Nobody knows what that is, yeah, but yeah, it a small book.
Juan Bustos (17:48)
and I'm umpiring the game and the field wasn't that great. The mound, you can see the rubber like the square or the rubber, but a kid just hit, drills one right back up the middle, hits the rubber, shoots right back straight to the catcher. Catcher just stands up, knee behind the plate, stands up, catches the ball, the runner's coming in from 30, makes the tag. That was a question. I remember it was in 1991. I was 11 years old reading that.
The line drive hits the mound and shoots back to the catcher who catches it in foul territory. I was like, instantly, I hadn't seen that book in 15 years at that time. And I went, that's a foul ball. That's foul. I get both coaches coming out at me. No, he was safe. How could you call it foul? And I looked at him. I said, look, I know this. And I immediately went right back. I got both of them yelling at me because one wanted it foul, one wanted the outer, the safe, whatever the thing was. I can't remember.
And I said, the ball never crossed a base and nobody touched it. It's a foul ball. And in between innings, one of the older guys who was a high school umpire, he was a league official and he just kind of looks at me, he's a little guy, little old guy, he looks at me, Juan.
How'd you know how to make that call? And I told him the story. I was like, I was reading Baseball Digest back when I was 11. And I instantly became 11 again and read that one. So I was like, dude, this was great. It actually came in handy.
Bobby Roberts (19:15)
If I was coaching that, you might have had to throw me out of the game. Because in my brain, I'm like, okay, here's what I was thinking. And now how you explained it was totally correct. But when you were talking about that, I'm thinking of it in my brain, right? And so I'm thinking, okay, the ball hits the bat, hits the mound. That's fair. That's what I'm thinking. Because I'm thinking, okay, that's just like if it hits a base, that it would be fair.
Juan Bustos (19:20)
You
Bye.
Bobby Roberts (19:45)
It's obviously not a base, but my brain was like, okay, the rubber should count, should act just like a base if it hits a base, but the base is the point to where it's got to either hit or cross. It doesn't hit that. So you're totally, like, now it makes sense, but that would have been difficult for me to digest if I had been the coach of the team of the player who hit the ball. Or I get, or either one of them, I mean, if they came back to the catcher and he made a play and he got some people out, I wouldn't want that to be a fair ball. Yeah, so.
Juan Bustos (20:03)
Thank you.
Yeah.
You want the out, yeah, for sure.
Bobby Roberts (20:15)
So yes, I don't know. So that's a really interesting play. So that's good.
Juan Bustos (20:21)
That was a weird play. That was a weird play. I remember that one. I remember another one. Now the rules changed since this one happened, but this one I almost had to throw a coach out. It was a foul tip. Foul tip. Umpires hate it if you call a foul ball a foul tip. I'll just tell you that right now.
Bobby Roberts (20:36)
Hey look, time out, time, wait, wait, wait. I know this one now because I got all kinds of hell on one of my... Look, two things. Two things I've caught more hell about. Well, I've caught a lot of hell. But two that I deserved was when I say it's a foul tip and then I explain that the catcher caught it. And it's like, wait a minute. The whole definition of the foul tip is the catcher catches it. If he doesn't catch it, it's just a foul ball. So quit saying foul tip unless he catches it. And the other one is when I say drops third.
I said it's a drop third strike. No, it's uncaught third strike. There's no such thing as a drop third strike. And I'm like, really? I mean, you know, and then I got called out. This one guy called me out good. He was like, that's just about as bad. He's like, you saying, how do you say it? He said, you saying a drop third strike is just about as bad as when you're bitching at people for saying the hands aren't part of the bat. You should know that if you expect them to know that the hands aren't part of the bat. I'm like, I had nothing to say. I'm like.
Juan Bustos (21:09)
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Bobby Roberts (21:35)
Dude, you got me, you're right. Going forward, it's uncaught third strike. I was a catcher, that was my position in college, and I used to hate it when someone would say drop third. I'm like, I didn't drop a damn thing. But so anyways, those are the two things I get held out. So sorry to interrupt your story, but go ahead. So you were at the foul tip for it. You were getting ready to tell a good story here.
Juan Bustos (21:50)
No, no, no. Yeah. Yeah. So.
Comes as kids swings comes off the bat hits the catcher in the chest and he just grabs it and I don't I don't remember when I read the rule and I even explained it wrong I do remember that I said no I said foul ball He's got to catch it clean, which is not true it at the time Just had to hit the glove or the hand first So I'm thinking on all right when I went back and read it I was like, oh, I got the call right just explained it wrong Guy was all over me. No, no, no, that's a strike. That's a third strike. He caught it I said no, he's got to make the clean catch
And he's just going, and I didn't throw him out, but I almost threw him out just because if you're going to argue with me, argue with me, that's fine. I'll let you have your say. What drives me insane is you walk away and you still have things to say. I'll let you talk. We'll have it out all you want. Blow up at me. Fine. Don't say something as you're walking away. That's kind of a BS move to me. But as he's walking away, he I don't know where you get these.
these ideas from and I chipped back from the rule book. You should probably open it one time. And I'd been around a long enough that I could kind of get away with saying stuff to coaches without getting in trouble. But yeah, that didn't make him any happier either. But it was yeah, now the rules change. The OBR so what Major League plays but Pony League plays and American Legion.
Bobby Roberts (23:08)
Well, you're talking about the definition of a foul tip now, right? Okay, yeah. So what is the definition of a foul tip?
Juan Bustos (23:19)
I'll tip. I'll tip.
So now a foul tip is a ball that goes sharply indirectly to the catcher. It used to be to the catcher's glove or hand, which I think is still the high school standard. I think in high school it has to touch the glove or hand first. But if you're playing OBR, which the official baseball rules, which is what Major League Baseball plays, Pony League, Little League, American Legion, any of those derivatives, I think U -triple S -A, P -G, I think are all OBR.
It just has to go sharply and directly to the catcher. So in that instance, if that play happened today, that coach would have been right. It would have been strike three because he caught it before it hit the ground. But back then, it changed in 2020. It had to touch the glove or the hand first. So he didn't like that and he kind of went over it. But those are kind of stories that...
Bobby Roberts (24:01)
Yep.
Juan Bustos (24:20)
coaches think they know the rules or they see something and they go, hold on, this doesn't sound right. And, you know, they think they're right just because something looks weird. And it's always like that. Just because something looks weird doesn't mean it's wrong. Like the post you put on today about the kid who did the, who do you need behind the back and everything. It looks weird. And if you're like, you're looking at it, I think you said, how can that be legal? Because it looks weird. Doesn't make it illegal.
Bobby Roberts (24:31)
Right. Yeah.
Right, yeah.
Juan Bustos (24:50)
And you are almost off to the right question on that. It's not, how can it be legal? Everything's legal until it's illegal. So the right question is, how is that illegal? And if you can answer how it's illegal, then it's illegal. But that's what you need to ask yourself is, OK, that looks weird, but is it illegal? And if it is, how is it? And then we could kind of have that conversation if it's based on a rule.
Bobby Roberts (24:58)
Yeah. That's good. That's good.
Juan Bustos (25:18)
You know, if it's a judgment call, you know, you're going to have judgment calls all day, but you got to kind of tie it back to the back to a rule.
Bobby Roberts (25:25)
Gotcha. So, so let's just say that there is a situation where There's getting ready to be an argument the coach is gonna argue is gonna argue a call. Okay, which happens quite often What is what is the what if you're talking to some coaches right now? Okay, because it's gonna happen and it's the right to question I'm in my opinion. I mean that is the right the question, but if they're gonna question your call What is the what's the right way to do it?
Juan Bustos (25:37)
Yeah. Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Sure. Yeah.
Bobby Roberts (25:54)
And what's the wrong way to do it?
Juan Bustos (25:56)
I'd say the wrong way is just tell the umpire that he's wrong or tell him what you saw. It doesn't matter what you saw. It doesn't matter what everyone says. Think of the Jim Joyce Galarraga play. Everyone in the world saw that play except for the one guy who mattered. So the first thing I would say is don't tell him what you saw or what you think. Find out what he saw. Go, hey, how did you come up with that? What did you see? And he'll tell you. And...
then you can at least start the conversation. I would say just ask questions. What did you see? How did you see that? How could that have happened if da da da da da? All right, so a common one is did it hit the bat or the hand? All right, I saw it hit the hand. You couldn't see it hit the hand. You may have heard it hit the hand. But how could that happen if the ball shot clear over there and my first baseman caught the ball? How did it hit him in the hand? Things like that. Start asking questions. And then.
Everyone says, oh, you can't argue a judgment call, which is 100 % true. But if you can tie it back to a rule, now you have a protestable call. I'll give you an example. I wasn't there. I got to the park later and one of my friends, he was coaching. He said, one, does the pitcher have to come set to pick off to first? I said, no, he only has to come set to make a pitch. Well, we got called on a Bok because...
He said the picture didn't come set before he picked over. And he said, we couldn't protest because it's a BOK. You can't protest a BOK. And I said, well, that's true. You can't protest a judgment call, but that's a rule application. So if you can tie it to a rule application, now you have yourself a protest. And you can ask the other guy for his opinion, or you can escalate it, whatever it happened to be. So ask them what they saw. And if you can somehow tie it to a rule, now you have a better argument.
Because if it's just going out there, well, I saw the ball beat the runner. There's no way the ball beat the runner. You're not going to change his mind. There's nothing you're going to do that's changed his mind. And if any umpire knows what he's doing, he's not going to ask for help on a play that's right in front of him. Can you ask for help? Absolutely not. I've argued with that. Can you ask for help when I think he might have gotten straight lined?
Bobby Roberts (27:57)
Right.
Juan Bustos (28:19)
I'm thinking one particular, my first baseman made a catch and he was in line with the catch said he pulled his foot. We watched video. It wasn't even close. The guy never pulled his foot. Can you ask for help? Nope. I saw exact. I saw it all. Well, I know he didn't, but once he says he's not going to ask for help, like there's not much that you can do. He says he saw it, he saw it and that's it. And if I'm an umpire and I know I saw it, even if I'm wrong, which if I think I'm wrong, I'll ask for help or I'll, I'll.
question myself, but um, Pirates, you know, if they see something, it doesn't mean it's right or wrong. It just means they saw it and that's what they're going to go. That's what they're going to go with. And that's what I'll tell coaches all the time. Hey coach, you might be right. That might be exactly what happened, but that's not how I saw it. And that's what we're going with. But if I'm the coach, I go the other way around is what did you see? And if I can tie it to a, to a rule, now I've got something going on. Um, but, um,
Bobby Roberts (28:49)
Right.
And I'll always.
Juan Bustos (29:16)
Yeah, that would be the best way. The wrong way is going over and tell him, no, you're blah, blah, blah, and blanket blank. The three things that will get you thrown out is if you make it personal, prolonged, or profane. Those are the three P's. You know, kind of think of that. If a person, there's a difference between that's a terrible call and you're a terrible umpire. There's a big difference. One is just arguing the call. The other is making it personal. Prolonged. Get your saying, get your, get your money's worth, if you will.
Bobby Roberts (29:35)
Yeah.
Juan Bustos (29:45)
have your say. And like I said, in the conversation that I had, we were done with the conversation and he walked away and still wanted to say more things. I probably should have thrown him out, but whatever. And then obviously if you get profane, now profane kind of goes to different levels. You know, if you're coaching 12 years old and you're dropping F -bombs on me, you're going to get thrown out. You know, if it's high school or college and you're doing that, it's, you know, it's what it is. It's par for the course. You're all adults there at some point. So it's not a big thing, but.
Bobby Roberts (30:09)
Yeah.
Sure.
Juan Bustos (30:15)
Yeah, those are the three things that you kind of tend to stay away from if you want to stay in the game. If you don't, go for it. Go for it. Go for one of those three.
Bobby Roberts (30:20)
Yeah.
Isn't it also better, you know, I was told a long time ago by an umpire when I was arguing a call, he basically came up to me and he's like, look, I understand that you're heated and you want to talk about it. He's like, but let's just not do it where everyone in the ballpark can hear about it. Just pull me over to the side. We'll just have an adult conversation about it. Um, like rather than, you know, yelling and screaming and flailing around. And so like, so anytime that that happened, I would always just kind of walk down a little bit and say, you know, time and say, and we have just.
Juan Bustos (30:44)
Yeah. Oh yeah.
Bobby Roberts (30:51)
and just talk about it. Basically, hey, what did you see on that one? Or, you know, whatever. I was like, okay, I think you missed it, but you know, that's why you're paying the big bucks, my man. So let's look.
Juan Bustos (31:02)
Yeah, because let's bottom line it. What are the chances you're going to get the call overturned? Oh, almost none.
Bobby Roberts (31:08)
Almost none, almost none unless it truly is like a rule. Like, you know, and it's like, wait, you got, you got that rule wrong. Um.
Juan Bustos (31:13)
Right.
Exactly. And that's what I said, if you can tie it to a rule interpretation, now you've got a stronger argument to make. But if it's just, you know, and there's different types of judgment calls, there's judgment calls that are, all right, fair foul, ball strike, safe out. Those are just judgment calls. This is what I saw and this is what I'm saying. Then there's judgment calls that are based on rules. Well, you know, in my judgment, he didn't try to swing like, you know, on a check swing.
That there's a there's kind of a rule, but there's kind of not a rule and it's just a pure judgment call. And there's really nothing you're going to do to overturn it. A box. Same thing. Oh, you know, I didn't think he stopped. Well, I mean, I what can I say? I can't argue with you.
Bobby Roberts (31:59)
So let me ask you this. So what you're talking about there, I had some questions. So what are some of the most misunderstood rules? Like a BOLT?
Juan Bustos (32:11)
Box. Box. Well, you remember that commercial where everyone's like, oh, that's a box. And everyone's like, well, it's a box. Yeah, box. I gotta say box and the base path. Those I think are the two probably most misunderstood other than your generic hands are part of that, which I used to think I thought hands were part of One of my coaches when I was a kid, a kid got hit in the hand. He argued, hey,
Bobby Roberts (32:22)
Hahaha!
Juan Bustos (32:40)
He was swinging the bats and the hands are part of the bat. I was, okay, well, hands are part of the mat. Coach said it. He knows everything. And you know, kind of until I learned different, but as far as misunderstood box and the base path, those are the two things that just people cannot grasp, cannot.
Bobby Roberts (32:58)
So, yeah, because I don't know him either. I mean, I'm learning them from the things we're doing on social media. I'm learning a lot of them. For instance, the play that happened at home plate where the kids slid in head first and the catcher was up in the air. And now I know that he interfered. He was out. That umpire made a next level call. I mean, he was right on top of it.
Juan Bustos (33:05)
Yeah.
Yeah, he was right on top of it. That was a really good call because it happened both fast.
Bobby Roberts (33:27)
He was right on top of it and somebody was like, well, there's a parent yelling interference and clouded his judgment. That was the umpire that was yelling interference. He's like, I got interference and whatever. But when that happened, I think our assistant coach did get thrown out of that game. And when I'm watching it, I'm like, there is no way this interference on this kid, there's no way. But anyway, so as far as a ball goes, let's talk about a ball.
Juan Bustos (33:36)
Yeah.
Bobby Roberts (33:54)
Is there an easy way to explain, like, I mean, a very short, rather than taking up 30 minutes here, is there like a minute where you can explain what a bulk is, or is it really complex?
Juan Bustos (34:07)
No, it's really not. It can get complex, but the basic of it is, I'll tell you what it's not, first of all, a Bok is not deceiving the runner. The pitcher's job is to deceive the runner. Exactly. I saw one on yours today, well, he deceived the batter. I was like, well, yeah, if you want to really talk what the pitcher's job is, it's to deceive the batter. That's 100%. But you know, deception, he deceived the runner, that's a Bok. Then every left -handed pitcher would be called for Bok every time.
Bobby Roberts (34:15)
Yep. Correct. Absolutely. That's what you're trying to do.
Duh.
Juan Bustos (34:35)
The inside move to second would be called a BOK because when you got the guy you deceived him. Deception by itself is not a BOK. That's what it's not. What it is, the BOK is an illegal act by the pitcher with runners on base. And they're listed out. There's 13 of them. And they're for the most part pretty simple. There's a couple that need a little bit more explanation. But like we said earlier, everything's legal until it's not. And if you
do one of these 13 illegal acts, it's a balk. And that's kind of the long and short of it. Illegal act by the picture with runners on base. Here's the list of them. You know, there's the list. It's a finite list. It's a finite list. It's not, you know, open -tiered much interpretation. It's there. So that's kind of what a balk is. But everyone thinks something looks weird, so it must be a balk. It's not. And I'll give you, I'm going to stand up here. I'll give you an example.
Bobby Roberts (35:17)
Got this.
Juan Bustos (35:33)
I was umpiring, must have been, let me see, I'm gonna change my angle here. It was a 13 or 14 year old, so I'm umpire. And this kid comes set, so he's right -handed, first base is behind him. And this was a great move. He kicks with his leg and turns to look at the runner on first. So he kind of did this and the runner on first just froze. And I think he even dove back to first. Like he just froze him because it looked really weird.
Bobby Roberts (35:51)
Right.
Juan Bustos (36:03)
And I've seen the move. I've seen the move before. I actually taught his coach the move who he taught that player the move because the guy he used to play for me and the other team went nuts. They were like, that's a buck. I was like, what do you do? Well, that's just he can't look over there. I was like, what do you mean? He can't look over there. It's a buck. It's like he kicked his leg. He pitched. He didn't stop. You know, he didn't not pitch the ball. Whatever.
And this one guy between it. So between innings and I knew the other coach, like he was from another city, but he played where I had coached before. I never coached. I think I coached him for a tournament or whatever, but I knew him. So I kind of broke it down to him and told him why it wasn't a buck. So I started going back to the plate and the other coach, let me tell you, if you had a video dictionary of the term sauntered over, he sauntered over to me.
Bobby Roberts (36:52)
you
haha
Juan Bustos (36:58)
And he said, that's a balk because you cannot look at an unoccupied base. I know what I'm talking about. I'm the pitching coach over at cap. And I went, I, I probably should have laughed like a lot louder than I did, but I chuckled at him. I was like, it's not a balk coach. You can, you can go back now. Um, but so people think that weird things happen or weird looks happen. So it must be a balk.
And that's kind of where the disconnect is, is if you think, if you think he's deceiving the runner, that's a balk, that's his job. And if something looks weird, it's gotta be a balk, but it's not that the toughest balk honestly is with two umpires. And it's usually a left -handed pitcher. Like that's just the toughest one to do. Um, I remember being of what was it? 15, 16. We had a lefty with a really good pickoff move and the other side just.
Bobby Roberts (37:36)
There.
Okay.
Juan Bustos (37:56)
was all over the empire who was in the B position. So he called time. He goes over to the A and he stands behind first base and he says play. And with runners on first, first and third, I think, and he called the rest of the game there because he was tired of them complaining about a balk. And he never called another balk. I think he picked off another two guys, never called a balk again. But it's just, you know, that's just the weirdest thing because people don't know what it is. They don't know what it means. And when you asked him how they balk, well, he deceived the runner.
Bobby Roberts (38:12)
Hahaha!
Yeah.
I'm going to get that list of 13 and I'm going to do something with that list. I'm going to make a post with it or something because that's good. Well, let me ask you another one. So another rule that always comes up that I hear parents and everyone complaining, not complaining about, but questioning and it just comes up all the time. You hear it yelled from the stands all the time. He was out of the baseline. He was out of the baseline. So is there an easy way to explain what the baseline is?
Juan Bustos (38:32)
Yeah.
Yes.
So there is no baseline. That's kind of the easiest way. There is no.
Bobby Roberts (38:59)
That's the easy way, right? It's like Fight Club, right? The number one thing about Fight Club, there is no Fight Club. So there is no baseline. Okay.
Juan Bustos (39:04)
There is no baseline. There is no baseline. What there is is when a fielder moves to tag the runner, and it doesn't have to be the arm stretched out. It's when he moves to the direction with the ball to tag the runner from that point to the base, he's got three feet on either side. So six feet total to move. If he moves outside of that six foot span, he's out. But you have to have a tag attempt. So.
You can have an 18 throw run down. There's no baseline. There's no three foot, six foot, anything until there's a tag attempt. As long as if they're playing catch back and forth, there's nothing. Um, the other one where people get confused is down the first baseline, the runner's lane. Um, they're like, yeah, you see that though, the white line or the baseline, especially between third and home. You see that white line, the foul line. That's not a baseline. That's a foul line. Don't get them to confuse. They're two completely different things.
But yeah, you have to have two things. You have to have a tag attempt and then you have to have that direct line and it's six foot wide across. But yeah, I hear that. I do too. I hear that all the time. That's what made me throw out. What was it? No, I was thinking of another time I threw out a parent, but it wasn't on that. It was a play at third. Kid missed a tag. This is great. Kid missed a tag. I called the guy save.
Bobby Roberts (40:27)
you
Juan Bustos (40:28)
And the dad, the catcher's dad is like right behind him. He'd been chirping all day. And I just kind of didn't do anything. And I looked, I looked at their coach, their manager, he was third base, he was on third base side and he looked at me and I was like, all right. So I walked over and you can leave. And I probably, I said, you, you can leave. I didn't say anything. He did. I was like, you want to go to then like, but grab your stuff and go just get out of here. And then the third baseman goes, I want to turn up. I don't know what you're arguing about. I missed the tag.
And I was like, thank you. Thanks, but see you later. But I thought that was a base base, uh, base path, but no, um, yeah, they just don't understand it. He's out of the base deck baseline. It's not a baseline. People think it's, you know, the direct line between second and third or first and second. It's not, there is no such thing. It's like fight club. Like you said,
Bobby Roberts (41:02)
Ha ha ha.
you
I love what you just said. There is no bass line. There's no such thing as a bass line. Okay, gotcha.
Juan Bustos (41:24)
Yeah, there is it. There's a few lines on the field and those are Fairfile lines. That's it. There's no place.
Bobby Roberts (41:28)
Yeah, and when you're playing and the majority of the fields that you play on when you're under the age of you know 15 years old There's no lines anyway, so like yeah, it's like okay the bat you talk about the batter's box Well, show me the batter's box because I don't think about his box speaking of that. Okay Here we go. Here's something else. There's a lot of play. I was a catcher So let me just preface something when I was a catcher if I saw the the bat if someone when I was a catcher when someone was stealing I did and I
Juan Bustos (41:34)
Yeah, exactly.
Oh man.
Bobby Roberts (41:58)
I did everything I could to try to make contact with the batter. If I saw that he was anywhere near out of the batter's box or in my way or whatever, I wouldn't throw the ball and hit him with it, but I would like do my throwing motion and run into him on purpose and then just be, and I would get that call almost every time. But my question is now, I hear all the time, let's talk about the batter's box. The batter is in the batter's box, it's a safe haven.
Juan Bustos (42:17)
Yeah.
Bobby Roberts (42:27)
He owns the box, all these other things. I hear it all the time. So can you explain, does that batter own that batter's box? Is it a safe haven? Can he do what he wants in there or is it something else?
Juan Bustos (42:42)
It's a batter's box because that's where he's supposed to stand, but that's about it. No. So my brother played with the catcher who would do that. He was really good at it. He got it calls a lot. But one thing that you remember, it's not the catcher's actions that make the interference or not. It's the batter's actions. Because I see this time, you'll have a hitter in the box.
Bobby Roberts (43:07)
you
Juan Bustos (43:11)
maybe take a half step back and he's still in the box and the catcher throws and hits him. Well, that's interference because he moved out of the box or if you read the rule, he moves out of the batter's box or makes any other movement which hinders the catcher. Nobody wants to ever read that part, but that's there or so I saw this the other day. He said, well, if, if that's interference, then I'm just throwing at the batter every time.
Bobby Roberts (43:26)
you
Yeah.
Juan Bustos (43:39)
And I said, you can do that, but it's not interference, because it's not the catcher's actions that make interference. It's the batter. So the batters have two options on that. Be a statue, or if you're going to move, move completely out of the way. Just don't even run across to the first base. Do whatever. But you either disappear or you're a statue. And those are your two options. And then after that, then if you know that bass line, then you kind of at least have it.
a discussion on the judgment call, whether it was interference or not. If the guy moves, but the umpire doesn't think that it interfered with the throw, then it's not interference. But to say, well, yeah, he moved, but he didn't do it on purpose intent has nothing to do with the role or, but he was still in the box. The box doesn't protect you. It's your movements.
Bobby Roberts (44:16)
Right Interesting
Juan Bustos (44:34)
It's either he completely got out of the way or he stood perfectly still. And if you've stood still, there's no interference. So those are the two things. The box doesn't create any protection. And it's the hitters movements that make the interference, not the catchers.
Bobby Roberts (44:55)
Gotcha. I have another question. Okay, one that comes up a lot So let's talk about the actual runner's lane because I think that actually is something that exists If I'm not mistaken, but the runner's lane when the runner when the batter runner is going to first base I've been told that that little box that's on the inside
Juan Bustos (44:58)
Mm -hmm.
Bobby Roberts (45:20)
and on the outside, in the last half distance to the base, that you are not to be inside of that, well, if there's a play anyway, you can be wherever you want if there's no play, but if there's a play that you're not supposed to be inside of that runner's lane in the last half of it, and the only time that you can be in fair territory is on that last step when you step on the bag which is in fair territory.
That's what I've been told. I don't know if that's right or that's wrong, but can you explain that runner's lane to me? And is it only if a ball is coming, is it any thrown ball to first or does it have to be from like the catcher or down the line or can it be from a third baseman or what is that? Can you explain that? Because that runner's lane thing, that causes all kinds of controversy almost every time it comes up.
Juan Bustos (46:13)
every time every time that's one of the big ones that we see in the world series too like from little league to the world series so the runner's lane the runner's lane is just you got to think of it as protection against interference if you enter
Bobby Roberts (46:27)
Who's it protect? Who does it protect?
Juan Bustos (46:29)
So the runners depends on which rule set. So rule set matters in this one. I don't do college. So I don't know NCAA. So I won't talk about that one. I don't do much high school either, but I know a little bit about it. In OBR, it protects the fielder at first receiving the ball. In high school, it protects the person receiving the player receiving the ball and the thrower. So here's the difference. In.
Bobby Roberts (46:34)
Okay, gotcha, okay.
Yep. OK.
Juan Bustos (46:59)
OBR requires a quality throw and what a Major League umpire described it to me as, if you remove the runner, would the fielder have made the catch or have been able to catch the ball? That makes it a quality throw. So if the catcher, if the runner's out of the batter's ball or out of the runner's lane and the catcher throws a 10 feet over his head, he didn't interfere with the guy receiving the throw.
Bobby Roberts (47:12)
Okay.
Juan Bustos (47:28)
you need that quality throw. In high school, it protects the receiver and the thrower by making it, well, the thrower threw it 10 feet over his head because he was trying to miss the runner. So it protects both as far as my understanding of it is. So to get that protection, though, you need to be in the runner's lane from the beginning of that, that 40 foot lane, all the way until that last step at the end.
Bobby Roberts (47:40)
Okay.
Juan Bustos (47:58)
Crudely, I made the joke one time. I said, it's like a condom. You don't just put it on at the end. You have to get the protection. You got from beginning to end, you got to be in the lane to have the protection. So that's what it is. So it's protected. So I'm thinking, I'll give you an example of that lane that was at the Brewers and Cardinals where it was construction.
Bobby Roberts (48:04)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yep, gotta have it. Absolutely.
Yes.
Juan Bustos (48:28)
Which I'll tell you, technically I get into arguments with this, with umpires on this all the time. Technically it was the correct call. I would never in a million years call it. The guy was out. Just don't interject where you don't need to be interjecting. It was out. Technically though, the field, the pitcher, once he let go of the ball, he was no longer in the act of fielding or throwing and he needed to be out of the way. But I hear all the time, well, he wasn't in the runner's lane. Well, so what? He didn't, he wasn't in the runner's lane.
Bobby Roberts (48:42)
Yeah.
you
Juan Bustos (48:58)
And in doing so, he did not interfere with the receiver at first base. The ball was in front of him, so he couldn't have possibly interfered with it. So he can run anywhere he wants. And this is another thing too. I could swear at some point in my life, I read that the throw had to originate from in front of the plate. I haven't been able to find that. I've looked, I've asked, nowhere is that. So you asked, can it come from third? Does it have to come from the plate?
It can come from anywhere. You've got to be in the lane. Can't interfere with the receiver fielding that throw if he's outside that lane.
Bobby Roberts (49:33)
See that's why I asked that because I on one of the videos that I put up it was the ball came from like the third baseman and Someone was talking about the runners lane interference and then someone said no throw from third that there's no such thing as running interference on a throw from third and then there was an Argument like yes, there can't be and no there can't be it. So I was just wondering so
Juan Bustos (49:56)
I haven't found it. I could, like I said, I could swear I read it at one time, but I haven't been able to find it. I tried to read the umpire manuals and the rule book and I couldn't find it. So you asked me at this point right now, it could come from anywhere. But yeah, so that's the two things have to happen for the run to you to have runners lane interference. They have to be outside of the runners lane at any time. And in the umpire's judgment have to interfere with the receiver.
Bobby Roberts (50:23)
Yep. Okay.
Juan Bustos (50:23)
If they don't do that, if they don't do those two things, you don't have runners, linear.
Bobby Roberts (50:28)
Gotcha. Here's another one. What's an infield fly? Because I've seen plays where the ball's in the outfield, but it's an infield fly. And so I've seen a check swing where the ball didn't go very high, and they didn't call it an infield fly. And then it was an easy double play. I've seen a bunt.
Juan Bustos (50:40)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Bobby Roberts (50:53)
I've seen a bunk that went all the way way sky high and they didn't call it an infield fly. So, just break down what the hell is an infield fly? And does it have to be in the infield?
Juan Bustos (51:04)
Okay. No, it does not. So first of all, you need a force out at third. You need a force play at third. Okay. Either runners on first, second, or bases loaded. So you need a force at third. Then it cannot be a bunt or a line drive. And a line drive is defined as a ball that is hit sharply and directly to a fielder. So a little loop is not a line drive and you can't have that on there. I've called it on a little looper. I wrongly called it on a little looper back in my early umpire career.
And that's how things stick with you. Like you screw up and then you go, OK, well, I learned from that one. I won't do it again. So you can't. No bunts, no line drives. Have to have a force of third. And it's a ball that can be caught by an infielder with, quote, ordinary effort, unquote. So sprinting back, giving one of these football catches, that's not ordinary effort.
Bobby Roberts (51:35)
Oh yeah.
Juan Bustos (51:59)
But the one that I'm thinking of is probably the one that you were thinking of the Cardinals, Graves, yeah, in the playoffs. He was way in the outfield. And you can see if you're watching and you're unbiased, I'm a Giants fan. I had no dog in the fight. I didn't care. I was just watching a good game. That's all I cared about. You can see, and I can't remember who the shortstop was right now, but he had a beat on the ball. He wasn't sprinting. He was kind of half jogging.
Bobby Roberts (52:05)
Yep.
Juan Bustos (52:26)
Squared up to the infield. That's probably a good first clue is he squared shoulders squared up to the infield He started to call it and not only does it not have to be in the infield if the left fielder had made that catch It's still an infield fly. It doesn't even have to be caught by an infielder to be an infield fly But because he got out there it was high enough that he was able to get out far enough with ordinary effort That was the correct call. It was an infield fly the batters out
and runners, that's the only thing. That's the only thing about an infield fly. People make too much of it. The batter is out. Everything else is regular baseball. If he catches it, you still have to tag. If he drops it, you don't have to run it because there's no force anymore. I had one of my umpires from, I still get calls from San Francisco guys, hey, what's the rule on this? One of my guys said, did you know that on an infield fly, even if they drop it, they have to tag up? No, they don't. Yeah, no, that's what my assigner said.
that he has to catch it or if it falls, they have to tag up. I said, well, they have to tag up from when? Like, if it gets this low, if it gets this low, when it hits the ground, like when do they have to tag up? And he even said the signer looked up. He goes, wow, I learned something new. And that's something cool. That's fine. Everyone learns something new every day. Keep learning. I've been doing this a long time. I'm still learning all the time. I messed up a rule thing.
Bobby Roberts (53:32)
you
Right.
Juan Bustos (53:54)
On Facebook just the other day. I was like, oh, that's right. All right, you got me on that one. But it was it's an infield fly. Force out a third, not a bunter or line drive, able to be caught with ordinary effort by an infielder. There is no line, like you said, it can be in the outfield. It could be caught by an outfielder as well. It can be dropped by an outfielder. But there it's those are the three things. Force a third, not a bunter or line drive.
Bobby Roberts (54:06)
you
Okay.
Juan Bustos (54:23)
caught by ordinary effort, being able to be caught by ordinary effort, by an infield. I'm gonna try to make that as simple as I can. I used a lot of words to make it simple, but that's how my brain works.
Bobby Roberts (54:34)
Gotcha. Okay, something else that comes up a lot, and I'm just trying to think of these posts that go like bat shit crazy, right? Like, no one knows what the hell's going on. And literally, that's about half of that. Actually, that's all of them, really. There was one that I put up not too long ago and someone said, man, they're doing good on this one. And it was like, I said, just wait, just wait. Oh, is that you that's...
Juan Bustos (54:47)
That's all of them.
Yeah, that was me. I posted that one. Yeah, I don't remember the situation. I don't remember the situation. But I was like, hey, this is like eight responses. And they all got it right so far. And you said, Oh, hold on. Just wait. Yeah.
Bobby Roberts (55:05)
Hold on. Hold on. Just wait. So I put up some quite often and the catcher is in the baseline. I said baseline again. The catcher. Okay. The catcher is in is the catcher does not have the ball, but yet he's in front of the play to where the runners coming home. I'm just going to say baseline because that's what everyone knows. Catcher's in the baseline. Yeah. Catcher's in the. Okay, so.
Juan Bustos (55:15)
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, they say baseline. Yeah, that's fine. And the runner's line. Yeah.
Bobby Roberts (55:34)
The catcher's in the baseline. He does not have the ball. He's waiting on the ball to come to him and he's up the line a little bit and he's just waiting. What's the runner supposed to do? Like does the runner like have to go all the way around him? Is the runner allowed to make contact with him? Can he flat truck him? What's going on when the catcher is in the line without the ball?
Juan Bustos (55:59)
Yeah, so again, this is going to be rule set specific. So OBR, the catcher can move into the runner's lane if the throw takes him there. In high school, that's obstruction. He can't block the runner at all without the ball. So it's a little bit different. But the way it was explained to me, because I hate the rule. I tell you, I don't like this rule.
I still have trouble with it, but the way it was explained to me is it's like the runner's lane. If you don't start in a legal position, you don't get the protection of moving in the lane if the throw takes you up there. So starting position for a catcher in OBR is you have to be in front of the plate. You can't be behind the plate. You got to be in front of the plate. Then if the throw takes you up the line, you're allowed to go wherever you need to go to make the play. And if the runner happens to collide with you,
then it's just a train wreck. That's what it is. What a runner cannot do is create malicious contact. So if he's standing there, I think there was a softball girl that you posted where the girl was just standing there and just got pummeled. And someone said, look, the rule says that if he's standing on it, you can truck him. And I, again, four words. What rule says that? Show me the rule. What rule says that? And sometimes I get, I think I did this one. I said, oh yeah, no, if she's standing there, you can drop kick her.
Bobby Roberts (57:06)
Oh, just keep the elbow.
Show me the rule. Yeah.
Juan Bustos (57:26)
See, I can make things up too. Like we're all just making things up. But yeah, so if the throw is taking, the throw has to be taking them up the line. And then you just kind of get into that, was it avoidable by the runner? That's where your malicious contact comes in. Was it avoidable if the catcher's coming up and the runner's still running and they just happen to run, you're not calling malicious contact on an unavoidable collision. But if the catcher's standing there, not giving you,
Bobby Roberts (57:29)
Hahaha.
Juan Bustos (57:55)
any room. No, you cannot truck the catcher in any level. Back in before Buster Posey, again, Giants fan, before the Buster Posey incident, I guess you could, but even at the youth level, you were never able to. Never been an option. You can never do it. You kind of got to move around or make it a big deal so that the Empire sees that it's obstruction. If you even pass the catcher, if the catcher is standing on the plate,
and you run by the catcher and never touch the plate, the correct call is to call you safe, even on appeal because you were obstructed and the obstruction kept you from touching the plate. That's a type two obstruction. So there's two types of obstruction. I don't know, you know, your audience knows them or you know them, but there's two types of obstruction. Obstruction on the runner type one is the runner obstruction on the runner being made the play on. So like a rundown.
That runner has a play being made on and if there's obstruction on it, it's automatically call time right away. They get a minimum of one base. So if they're, even if they're going back to second on a rundown and they're obstructed, going back to second, everyone thinks, oh, he gets the base he's going to. No, it's a minimum one base. They get third. They could be on top of second base. If they were obstructed, they're getting third. I got a good one for you on that one too.
Bobby Roberts (59:04)
Right.
Juan Bustos (59:23)
Type two is there's no play being made on the runner. So a runner's rounding a base, the throw is in the outfield and this catcher standing on the plate and the runner has to go around them. That obstruction is the umpire does whatever he does in his judgment to negate the obstruction. So if he says in my judgment, he would have scored if there would have been no obstruction, you score the runner. If the runner's obstructed rounding third and gets thrown out by 30 feet,
Bobby Roberts (59:40)
Ah.
Juan Bustos (59:51)
And in the empire's judgment, the obstruction, he still would have got thrown out. He's still out, even though you recognize the obstruction. That's obstructed right there. But yeah, he was thrown out by 40 feet. He was going to be out anyway. You still call the out. But I had a, I had a play. I was even, I was watching. I grew up across street, like literally across street from a park, we're at baseball field. So I'd go over all the time. My parents still live at that place. So I go over there when I'm visiting and you literally hear a crack of a bat.
Bobby Roberts (1:00:04)
Okay. I didn't know that. Okay.
Juan Bustos (1:00:21)
ping of the bat and I'm like, oh, there's a game. All right, I'm gonna go watch it. We're gonna go over there. So I'm watching the game and I know the guys, it's for a middle school league, one of the local teams. And I know the president of league who's the AD at that school. And one of my buddies is umpiring because he umpires for it. I had nothing to do with the game. I umpired in the league, but I had nothing to do with that game. So I'm standing there. The base is loaded, they run a pickoff play at second and the shortstop is standing.
And they were playing, they played high school rules, the shortstop standing in the way of the runner going back second. So the umpire calls time, that's obstruction and he keeps him at second. So I'm talking to the president of the league and I wanted my home team to my local team to win. So I said it loud enough and said, Hey, you know what, because he was obstructed on the runner making play, he's supposed to get third in the run from third scores. And the coach who I wanted him to hear me goes, wait, what?
And I say, oh yeah, go tell him that I said it. Because the guy who was umpiring, he was a really good umpire. And he would constantly text me, hey, what's the rule on this? Here's a play. Before you can tag me on social media, he would text me plays. And so if it was a really odd one, I'd look it up, I'd do some homework, and I'd send it back to him. And he calls time during the game, comes up to me in the bleachers.
Bobby Roberts (1:01:30)
you
Juan Bustos (1:01:47)
It was, Hey, Juan, did you see that? I was like, yeah. I called obstruction on him going back to second. What's the cause? I said, well, that's type one. I'm supposed to send him back over there. Minimum over there. And the other coach went nuts. And he comes up saying something to me, or I said something to this guy and he says something to me. And I got into it from the bleachers with the coach who had nothing to do with it. I played pro ball. I was like, oh, here we go. Now I know I'm in for a doozy because I played pro ball. So I know all the rules and that's the other thing.
Because you played at a level doesn't mean you know what you're talking about. You're really good at playing. Like you're really good at playing. Better than I would have ever been. Better than I would ever hope to be. Great. Good for you. Congratulations. Happy for you. That's awesome. I wish I if I could trade my empire knowledge for that playing career, I would do it right now. No problem. No question asked. But you don't know the rules. You don't study the rules. You don't get into the rule book. Because, you know, I used to have a rule book in the bathroom before we had smartphones. That's what you did.
Bobby Roberts (1:02:34)
Very good.
Juan Bustos (1:02:46)
And, you know, I got into it because I hear that all the time. Well, I played in college. Malik said on a post, the rulebook doesn't care about your resume. It does not care. It doesn't care about your resume. So yeah, that's the obstruction. There's two types of obstruction. And that's the one where you get, you know, you got to get to the next base, you get to one base minimum, and that pushed the other runner in, so they scored. So.
Bobby Roberts (1:02:59)
No. No. It doesn't.
Sure.
Juan Bustos (1:03:17)
That was me getting into it. I thought he was gonna come fight me. I was like, oh, geez, all right, here we go. But yeah, I was just sitting there kind of trying to interject myself, but I did.
Bobby Roberts (1:03:21)
That's hilarious.
So real quick, I wanna, before we wrap up, there's a couple things that I wanted to ask you, but one, first off, if there was any piece of advice that you could give to the parents or the spectators, you know, typically at the levels that we're talking about, it's almost always the parents, right? Grandparents or something. So if you had to give some advice to them,
when they're there watching little Johnny play and all that stuff, what advice would you give to them? And have there ever been any situations to where like you've heard some of the kids talking about like what's going on in the stands? So like what kind of advice would you give, give to the people that are there to watch the game?
Juan Bustos (1:04:07)
Oh yeah.
You're there to watch the game. Watch the game. You know, as much as you can cheer and probably not even that. Like your kids don't want to hear you. You're there for the kids. You know, remember that first of all.
I guess I would say just observe this. Next time there's a bad call, don't say anything. Just watch your kid. Watch how quickly they get over it. And if it's not bothering them, it shouldn't bother you. They get over it quickly. They've moved on. You're there for them. Cheer, and that's about it. If you really want to get involved, hey, get involved. They're always looking for umpires to volunteer, coaches to volunteer.
I was talking to a friend of mine, she was asking me about a basketball coach. She's like, hey, do you know this guy? I said, no, I know who he is. He played ball with my brother. Oh, well, they don't like the way he is coaching. Some of the parents don't like the way he's coaching. I said, well, why aren't they coaching? Oh, well, they can't. They don't have time from work. And I said, dot, dot, dot, said every parent who complains about everything. We all have excuses. We all have whatever it is. But best advice is just.
Bobby Roberts (1:05:11)
. . .
Juan Bustos (1:05:24)
Watch your kid and if it's not bothering them, it shouldn't bother you. Cheer on, drop them off. Have a drink, relax.
Bobby Roberts (1:05:28)
Do you think, do you think that when the parents start chirping, the kids obviously can hear their parents and they know it's them. Do you think it's embarrassing them?
Juan Bustos (1:05:42)
Yeah, I can't tell you how many times I've seen a kid just drop his head like, here we go again. Like I've been behind the plate with a catcher who's like, I wish he would shut up, you know, talking about his dad. Yeah, like I wish he would shut up or, you know, at one time my kid said, be so embarrassing. You know, just don't embarrass your kid. You know, I think, you know, I
Bobby Roberts (1:05:56)
about a dad. Yeah.
Juan Bustos (1:06:10)
There were times where I would get in trouble. My dad was like, that was embarrassing. And I'm like, all right, well, let's do this. We don't embarrass each other. Like, how about that? Just don't embarrass your kid. You don't like it when he does the same thing to you. Just be there. Be supportive. The best thing, someone told me one time, and my son's about to be eight. You know, he's...
He's fine. He's just playing. He's starting to like baseball, which is all I ever, all I want. But the best advice I ever got was the best thing to tell your kid after the game was I had so much fun watching you play. I loved watching you play like that. And it really is like my son's still learning. He's eight. I don't think he's put a ball in play yet this year, but you know, yeah, as he's swinging, I'm like, okay, that wasn't it. He struck out the other day with his best swing. And I was like, dude, that's the swing I want. Like that's it.
Bobby Roberts (1:06:39)
Yep, pardon you.
Juan Bustos (1:07:00)
Great job. You know, encourage, be encouraging.
Bobby Roberts (1:07:02)
Yeah.
Juan Bustos (1:07:04)
Me as a coach, and I want parents to like support the coaches. That's I think a big thing. If parents, if you can support the coach because a coach's job to me, especially at the youth levels and especially at the like 10 and under level is to teach the game a little bit and make it so much fun that they're excited to show up to practice and make it even more fun that they want to sign up for next year. They can't wait for next year. If you can do those things and you as a parent can be supportive of a coach doing those things.
Bobby Roberts (1:07:34)
Man, that's that is such good advice when we were younger and some advice that I would give is I would say, you know, when we were talking about coaching and everything, I said, you know, especially some of the younger kids, I would say, look, man, it's really important to try to teach them fundamentals at multiple positions. You know, do things that will help them, you know, avoid injury, stretching, you know, hydration, all those things. And number one is.
Juan Bustos (1:07:34)
You've all done your job.
Bobby Roberts (1:08:01)
continue to have them grow their love for the game. Because if they don't love it, they're not going to sign up next year, just like you said. So that's that.
Juan Bustos (1:08:08)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I know I saw someone, I saw someone post, like, oh, my kid doesn't like baseball or soccer anymore. You know, they just want to play Fortnite. I said, well, ruin Fortnite for them to stand over their shoulder and go, hey, why are you moving there? What are you doing that for? Why did you shoot that guy? You'll ruin it for them to hate Fortnite.
Bobby Roberts (1:08:27)
Right because that that same parent they're no good at fortnight, but they're the best coach and the best umpire The best coaches and the best umpires are always in the stands always i'll keep No never been in back tall So so speed so let me ask you this Umpire it's you know, it's in the news and everything else out of control parents out of control coaches umpires getting you know, verbally abused sometimes physically abused um
Juan Bustos (1:08:32)
Oh yeah, they have the best view, of course. They've never lost a game. They've never made a mistake. Yeah, exactly. They've never made a bad call.
Yeah.
Bobby Roberts (1:08:57)
And we are, we have an umpire shortage right now. There's no doubt about it. So, um, I don't know of any umpire that I've ever talked to that's got into it a hundred percent for the money. Right. I mean, they're like, okay, yes. An extra paycheck is good, especially like when you're younger and all that stuff. But the guys who are our age that are out there umpiring that work a full -time job, they go put on the gear.
Juan Bustos (1:09:15)
Yeah.
Bobby Roberts (1:09:23)
They go out to the games either on the weekends or at night when they could be doing other things, spending time with their kids and all that stuff. They're getting verbally abused, physically abused. They've had enough. Games right now are being umpired by one umpire sometimes. Sometimes none. Games are getting canceled because of an umpire shortage. What can we do about this, do you think? Or is it just the society? But if you had a magic wand or a crystal ball...
What would you do to say to everyone, hey, let's try to clean this up a little bit. Do you have any thoughts on that?
Juan Bustos (1:09:58)
One thing that I, like our league right now, like for our, we're double A minors, whatever in little league, the coaches umpire their own games. I would get away from that. If your league does that, don't go find a 12 year old. Go tell him, you know, Hey, get behind the, the, the plate. We'll give you 10 bucks and buy you lunch and buy you a cone ice or whatever you guys have at the, at the field and start getting them to experience.
And have a board member there to be crowd controlled that, Hey, we're not going to tolerate any abuse of the umpire because every umpire that I've seen is like twice as old as me. They're all in their seventies. Um, that there we're not replenishing new umpires. That's the problem. The old umpires, they're either getting out of it because they can't do it anymore because they don't want to take the abuse anymore, whatever the reasons are. But we need new umpires to be able to get to their.
And when you get them, by the time they're 16, 17 years old, umpiring 12 year old games where coaches are all over them, parents are all over them, they're like, no, I don't want to do this anymore. And now they're, they're not learning the rules because you didn't, you ran them out after three games. So if you can start at the eight year old, nine year old level with 12 and 13 year old coaches or umpires rather, have a board member there and leave them alone. Or if you're running a tournament, have a tournament director there.
have absolutely zero tolerance on them, now you're going to be able to get them to grow in experience and knowledge and do some training with them to where hopefully they grow into the wolves. I parents think, y 'all, we're paying so much for a tournament, and they are. Tournament, well, stupid, the pricing. I saw a tournament in California, it was like 1 ,100 bucks for a three -game tournament, which is ridiculous. Call up another league, set up a doubleheader, you'll be better off. But...
If you're playing your, your eight, your eight, you nine, you're those umpires are learning just like your kids are. You're not going to get the best umpires. You're going to get new people. Now that doesn't excuse umpires from being lazy or being unprofessional. And I've seen some of those on video too. And that's, that's uncalled for. You are getting paid at least set yourself up professionally, kind of read the rule book, you know, think, you know, the rule a little bit, do a little bit of homework, but.
Bobby Roberts (1:12:03)
Yep, yep, exactly.
Juan Bustos (1:12:26)
You know, you, you got to understand that those guys, just like your eight and nine year olds are learning. So are those umpires. I talked to a guy the other day, his kid played pro ball. Um, and his daughter was like a pro athlete as well. And, uh, he runs an organization called, um, growing champions for life. And he told me that parents are probably the most under coached demographic in all of youth sports. And I could not agree with that more.
Bobby Roberts (1:12:31)
Yeah.
Juan Bustos (1:12:54)
Parents need to understand their role. Their role is to help the coaches to help their kids love the game, to grow the game, and to cheer. And that's your role as a parent. It's not to be an umpire, although you can be an umpire. It's not to be the coach when you're in the stands, although you can be a coach on the field, but it's to support those people. So if you can do that and get them started when they're young, start umpires when they're 12, 13 years old on the younger teams games.
Make mistakes and tell them and make make mistakes. Okay. You know, I'm sure if you coached, I don't know what the youngest youth coach you've coached is, but I think you said you had kids, you had boys. T ball eight, nine years old. You encourage them to go make mistakes, go make an error, go get after that ball. You missed it. Okay. What did we learn? Swing, swing the bat, swing at a thing over your head. Cause what did we learn not to swing at that pitch next time? Okay. Make mistakes. I encourage mistakes. Same thing with the umpires.
Bobby Roberts (1:13:29)
Steve, oh, yeah.
Juan Bustos (1:13:53)
At nine years old, there's nothing you can't undo. Hey, that umpire blew that call. All right. Well, if you have it, if you pair them with a more senior umpire, they can get together and make the right call. So let them make mistakes. Don't. Don't be like school where you punish mistakes. I always say that. It's so weird. We punish mistakes in school, but not in real life. Make it like real life. Don't punish mistakes. So if you can get them learning from the time they're younger with the younger groups, younger ages.
Bobby Roberts (1:13:57)
Yeah.
Juan Bustos (1:14:22)
and help them grow, you're going to replenish those umpires that are that are leaving the field. And, um, you know, definitely, the big thing that I see is in, uh, I call it traffic ball because you drive for two hours to play in a tournament against the town next door, next door to you, um, that you're stuck in traffic, but there seems to be, depending on where you're jumping around, there's no count. I got thrown out in this tournament. Guess what?
We're going to another tournament in another city with another organization. I'm back in coaching. Whereas when you were in league ball, you got thrown out of a game, you were suspended for one, two, three, eight games, whatever the league determined. And there were some of those controls. So if you can, if you're running an organization, like you have an organization, if you have three or four teams, three or four different ages, whatever it happens to be. And if you can implement those controls on those coaches, you know, you got to relevant. Everyone has their part to do. Everyone does. There's no.
Bobby Roberts (1:14:54)
Yep.
Juan Bustos (1:15:17)
One thing that I can do, one thing that we can do. Adults, be adults. I don't know what you do for a living, but if you were a plumber, I wouldn't sit here and yell at you and berate you because I think I can do a better job than you as a plumber. Why do we allow that with umpires? Sure, there's some, ah, ah, that's part of the course. No problem. You got to get a little bit of thick skin, but.
Bobby Roberts (1:15:29)
Exactly.
Juan Bustos (1:15:47)
You know, you suck and you're the worst person I've ever seen or Stumpire I've ever seen. I've gotten that a couple of times. I'm like, oh, okay, cool. Um, you know, I keep trying. Um, but everyone does their part and really, really, really from a young age, get them to grow into, into that wall would be probably my best advice. And I think leagues, rec leagues have a big opportunity to be able to do that. Um, to really grow.
Bobby Roberts (1:15:57)
It's it's almost it's almost like when we were talking about kids, you know continue to have the grow the love for the game You almost need to have like umpires that continue to grow their love for umpiring, right? So That's perfect
Juan Bustos (1:16:19)
Yeah, exactly. And I mean, unless you even if you played because play, you'll know this playing and coaching are two completely different skills. You know, coaching, you have to break things down. You have to be a communicator. You have to be a manager of time and other people player. You go out there and play. You go out there and do it. And at eight, nine years old, those coaches are learning to.
Bobby Roberts (1:16:30)
All right.
Juan Bustos (1:16:46)
The umpires are learning, the players are learning, the parents should be learning, everybody, it should be a learning opportunity forever.
Bobby Roberts (1:16:51)
That's a perfect segue here. Before we wrap up, what I wanted to say was when you talk about players who can play out, I played in college and so I was a decent ball player, but I'll never forget. So when my son was, we got away from T -ball and we went to the machine pitch. I think we started that at age seven, I think, when they stopped hitting on the tee. It was either seven or eight. And so...
I said I would help coach a team with this other guy who would help coach a team. He came up to me and he said, look, here's the deal. I'll deal with the parents, I'll deal with the paperwork, I'll practice times, the field, all that stuff. He was like, I got all that. You just need to teach him how to play baseball. I'm like, done. That's the easiest thing in the world. Okay, this is easy, right? I'll never forget this. First practice, we're there and we're in a cage and he's feeding the machine and the kids are in there trying to hit the ball and they're swinging and they're missing.
Juan Bustos (1:17:35)
Yeah.
Bobby Roberts (1:17:49)
And I'm like, okay, and I'm getting ready to teach this kid how to hit the ball. I have no idea how to teach a kid how to hit the ball. None. Like I literally that night I'm like, oh my goodness. And so like up until that point, I just gave my son the bat and said, here, hit it on the tee and just hit it. But then when it came to actually hitting a baseball, I had zero clue how to tell a kid how to hit a baseball. I'm like, how did you do it, Bobby? I'm like, I just, I just did it. You know?
Juan Bustos (1:17:55)
No.
Bobby Roberts (1:18:15)
And so I literally got on YouTube that night, I'm like, how to teach a kid, and they're like, line up your door, knock your knuckles, do all these little things. And I'm like, OK. And like, I'm like, I'm trying to learn how to teach an eight year old how to swing a bat, because I thought just because I'm playing college, everyone thinks, oh, he can teach you about it. He can teach an eight year old. No, you can't. But two different things. Look, hey, hey, man, thanks so much. We're going to definitely have to do this again. I've got so many different rule questions and stuff that I want to ask you.
Juan Bustos (1:18:32)
Two different things, two completely different.
Yeah.
Bobby Roberts (1:18:42)
And maybe next time we can talk about all the myths. I want to do a segment on that, you know, all the different myths, like, you know, my favorite one, the hands are part of that one. And then all these different things. I mean, we literally could go on for hours and hours and hours. But, you know, thanks for the time you spent with me tonight. Yeah, it's been great.
Juan Bustos (1:18:50)
That's part of that.
Oh yeah.
No, thanks for having me. I will say one thing. I want to plug my dad's organization if I can. He runs a great nonprofit. It's a great nonprofit. It's called Baseball Without Borders Foundation. He sends new and used equipment all over the world. Kids in need everywhere. I think every continent so far, except for Antarctica to like 40 something different countries, doesn't take a dime. Doesn't get paid a penny. Has never taken a dime. Does it out of, you know, just the goodness of his heart.
Bobby Roberts (1:19:07)
100 %!
Juan Bustos (1:19:31)
gets requests from all over the world saying, hey, do you have any baseballs? Do you have any youth pants? Especially for the younger guys. Like he loves that. All he asks for is just send me pictures of the kids with the gear. So, Baseball Without Borders Foundation, BWB Foundation on Facebook, check them out.
Bobby Roberts (1:19:41)
Man.
Can you, can you, first off, that is awesome. That's a very noble thing that your father's doing. Outstanding. Can you repeat all that information one more time? The name and how they could get a hold of him and all that stuff?
Juan Bustos (1:19:55)
Yeah. Yeah. He's also Juan Bustos. I'm a junior. Go to facebook .com obviously. He's at BWB Foundation. That's probably the best way to get in touch with him. You can DM him. He'll take DM, takes requests. We used to get all the time. It's like, Hey Juan, because again, he lived right across the street from that park. Everybody in town knew where he lived. He goes, Hey, we're cleaning out our stuff and I've got a bunch of gear for your dad.
You got to see the front lawn littered with gear and he would sit there, pack it up, sending out. I'll go over visit. He goes that one. That one's going to, um, that one's going to Africa. That one's going to the Philippines. That one's going to Pakistan. That one's going to India. It just, he's got it all over the place. So he, it's great. Um, baseball without borders foundation foundation. There's another baseball without borders, but he's baseball without borders foundation, BWB foundation on Facebook.
Bobby Roberts (1:20:24)
And what
Peace.
Awesome. Juan, thanks for coming on and we're gonna go ahead and wrap up now, but fantastic stuff, good stuff, and as always for everyone out there listening, let's go!
Juan Bustos (1:20:57)
Yes.