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Diagnosed with Complex Trauma and a Dissociative Disorder, Emma and her system share what they learn along the way about complex trauma, dissociation (CPTSD, OSDD, DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality), etc.), and mental health. Educational, supportive, inclusive, and inspiring, System Speak documents her healing journey through the best and worst of life in recovery through insights, conversations, and collaborations.
Over:
Speaker 2:Welcome to the System Speak a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to long time listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
Speaker 1:We have emails today. Maple Systems says, hi, Emma. Just wanted to say, please keep singing and playing music on the podcast. It makes me happy. Thank you for all you do.
Speaker 1:Emma from the Maple system. You can share my name. I'm getting braver. Welcome, Emma, from the maple system. That was super brave of you to share, and thank you for the encouragement.
Speaker 1:The unseen ones say, holy crap. And so I'm so I'm listening to the episode after the trip to Africa, and the husband is talking about his sloshing parts, and then he drops a bomb. Quote, it was your mind, your psyche's way of protecting itself by creating boundaries. Wait, so when our boundaries were violated and we couldn't do anything about it externally, we made boundaries internally that we knew would be respected and keep us safe? Woah.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly. Unseen ones. It's mind blowing, right? We talk about this in the workbook as well. Thanks for writing in and sharing.
Speaker 1:Cecil of the Dreamland System says, hello, my name is Cecil, and my system is also hoping to begin a Plural podcast to document our experience and to discuss multiplicity in the future. We were wondering if we could reference your podcast in our first episode as a source of inspiration for us. Absolutely. I'm glad that's been helpful, and welcome. When you get your podcast up and going, let us know, and we'll be happy to give you a shout out.
Speaker 1:You guys got this. Unseen ones write again. We are part of the community and so feel a bit silly writing this. We wanted to reach out to you though directly both as a group and as a podcast. We wanted to express our gratitude and how much finding this podcast, the people involved, and all the resources that have come from it have helped various ones of us on this journey of trying to understand ourselves better.
Speaker 1:We are still years behind on the episodes, just listen to NTISS, but each time we listen, we remember our sweet friends we've never met and how their bravery forged a path like wolves, where the stronger ones in the pack take the lead, pushing through the snow to make a path that is easier for the others until it is their turn. That fits in so many ways. You have stepped into that space with a hunger for healing and a bravery that is inspiring. We cannot even begin to express how much we are so, so grateful. We have someone in our system who instantly identified with Sasha, probably still lasts the hardest with her and I can't even breathe kind of way.
Speaker 1:John Mark is so sweet and relatable for a couple of us and a little and a caretaker specifically. Molly provides a place for the one not triggered by religion or talks of God. The one who talks about the struggles of parenting and nightmares, walks, dogs, sleep, In a world where no one comes close to understanding, we aren't alone. There are others like us and that's okay. Lastly, we wanted to mention the husband.
Speaker 1:He is kind and patient and insightful and funny and steady. You are obviously lucky to have him. We don't need to tell you. And we wanted to thank him for what he would do anyway because of who he is, but what means so, so very much. Thank you friends for helping us navigate this journey.
Speaker 1:We have made so many friends by listening to the podcast and by participating in the community. We are not alone. Thank you so much, and we're so grateful for your encouraging words, And welcome to the community. The podcast also received $100 donation, and I don't have permission to read their names, so I don't want to say that. But we just wanted to give you a shout out.
Speaker 1:Thank you for the help and the support in keeping the episodes online so that all of them are available to even new listeners and for those who go back and listen to previous episodes. Thank you for your support. Serenity shares. I just listened to episode three eighty six piece by piece. And if I wasn't driving, I would have broke down and cried.
Speaker 1:The timing is impeccable. I'm sorry, but it's a bit of a long email, but a happy one, I think. I might be getting married by this upcoming spring. It's a seven year long on again, off again relationship of an old fashioned courtship after fifteen years of not looking for a mate. I say maybe because when I get close to people such as friendships, the relationships always fall apart and I end up deeper down the shame hole and more traumatized than I was before.
Speaker 1:Right? Oh my goodness. Exactly. They say, I learned that if I have no expectations, then I'm not disappointed. And I generally am frightened by attention from men and bond more easily and readily to women because of different kinds of abuse and trauma from men than what I endured from women, which has sent mixed signals in the past.
Speaker 1:Plus I was raised as a tomboy and parentified and emotionally incested by my mom, which is a whole other bag of messed up. Anyway, I have been on a healing journey these past three years, and I am discovering the dysfunction of parts and fissures within myself, which disrupt the holistic self I am learning to respect and how to respect their roles and listen when they allow me to. And then they share more of some of their personal details and their personal story that I'm not gonna read right now. But they said, now with the abuse dynamics out of the way and three years of therapy and understanding and healing, and starting this relationship from a distance by phone calls and seeing him put in the effort of a healthy relationship, his consistent effort has helped me feel safe and assured that he won't abandon me or turn into an abuser. We are creating a better life and will work on healthier coping skills.
Speaker 1:And he is even willing to work with my therapist to better learn how to communicate with me and support me in my healing. I've talked to him the best I can about different parts of me and trauma dealing with sex, which even the word is still triggering. He says, I'm like a new horse scared of everything. You can't force a horse to do what you want because it will run or buck. You have to respect the horse and teach it to trust first.
Speaker 1:Then it will want to work with you. That's me a thousand ways from Sunday. A thousand ways from Sunday. That's a new one for me. That's awesome.
Speaker 1:If he keeps that attitude and works with me in that context, I could see this being a safe and productive marriage. I like the difficult topics you brought up so candidly but respectfully in this particular episode. They help me analyze more intimately if he has behaved in safe ways, even with touch and the lack of sex, and safe with other forms of intimacy in the past. And the answer is yes on all accounts. A support friend of mine recently asked me if I would be happy with him because after all I went through, I deserved to be happy.
Speaker 1:I told him I don't even think about happy. I was focusing on whether or not he is safe enough for me to marry. Though now that I think about it, I do remember relaxing with him and for the first time in my life, laughing a lot. You bring out a lot with regards to compatibility and safety, like you were responding to conversations I've had with support friends this past month. I felt very much alone in my need to put safety above even happiness, and I felt not normal again because I don't understand the world the way other people do.
Speaker 1:And this is another manifestation of that Grand Canyon gap with no bridge to get me to the other side until I heard this episode. Your words put healing salve on my heart and let me know I am okay to think and feel the way I do, even about intimacy and romance and sex, and that it's okay for me to put that need, the safety, as a top priority. Your other podcasts with your husband have demonstrated your ability to feel safe with and to be vulnerable around him in a healthy way. But this was the first time you shared the words to go with it. And I'm grateful for the validation, the encouragement, and the demonstration of your using your own marriage as an example.
Speaker 1:I just really appreciate the support that much and from someone who doesn't need to know the details of my life to get it, to understand the complexities of how trauma affects our biology. Thank you again for sharing your story and processing through difficulties in a way that others like me can relate to and feel less weird and alone and ashamed. Thank you so much for sharing. That is such a sensitive topic and absolutely part of why we wanted to share it. And I really, really appreciate your courage in doing so.
Speaker 1:Thank you for sharing with us. Jennifer says, Hi, I'm a new fan of your podcast because Doctor. Laura Brown recommended it to me. Oh, we love Laura. She's wonderful.
Speaker 1:She's we love her so much. I am working with her to teach intersectional feminist therapy theory and its application in trauma therapy. I am fascinated by how harmful the therapy world is and how much ableism and stigma there is for therapists. I am open about my trauma and resulting PTSD or perhaps CPTSD, and I've been challenged by therapists on being open about it. Your bravery in exploring your experience for the benefit of everyone is extremely inspiring.
Speaker 1:I'm curious to know how scary it felt. Terrifying. Every single day still terrifying. They said, I lead an intersectional feminist therapy practice called Peak Resilience in Vancouver, Canada, and we're a team of about 35. I've already shared your podcast to my team and raved about it, and we're discussing it in our consult groups.
Speaker 1:Well, hello, Canada. We are secret fans of Canada. It's no secret. And Vancouver is particularly awesome and exciting. And so a shout out to you all, and I'm glad that you have found the podcast and hope that that is helpful.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. And then we have Amanda who also offered a donation to the podcast and says, thank you so much for your podcast. I have learned so much over the years and I told myself once I got my internship, I would send this your way. Thanks for making so much of us. Thanks for making so many of us feel less alone.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness. What I love about this is Amanda's heart, because let me tell you as an intern, you do not make a gazabillion dollars. And so for you to share anything with us to support the podcast is beyond generous and so very kind, and we grateful for you. So grateful. So thank you, Amanda.
Speaker 1:Multimise says, one of the worst feelings for me about dissociation is having a feeling but no words. I am sitting here appreciating the words that are coming to me as I write them, so I hope I can communicate well. I have learned through the years that at times people will judge and jury just as I have done. It's upsetting when you don't get a chance to speak your voice and share your truth as you know it to be when it happens. Can it change?
Speaker 1:Yes. Does it mean that where you were in that moment needs to stay forever? No. For me, shame has taught me to retreat and just accept those errors and that I am forever broken. But the thing is, I am not.
Speaker 1:None of us are. I have always said that we systemically believe, I think, that character is built on those with whom you disagree. And looking back on this body's puzzle of life, I am proud of who and what we are and piecing together. All of these shattered and scattered pieces of self contributing to the whole of who we are and trying to spend a lifetime trying to figure things out. Those cracks between those puzzle pieces are life and mine for a very long time has held together even just connected by straw.
Speaker 1:Therapy helps build the straw to put the pieces together, but I have found that straw isn't a very strong bonding agent. It's permeable, open to influence, and not and as such, not solid. No wonder healing feels slow. Lately, though, there's a strength within that is holding this body's puzzle together. If I can fit a couple of pieces together, they seem to be holding with concrete.
Speaker 1:There is a feeling of solidity when the pieces hold more securely than ever, slowly completing a life picture of what has been endured. I think about how that straw has been changed to stone, and it feels like it is in relationships. I have been so incredibly blessed beyond measure to have people that have been so patient with us as we navigate this process, and it is in those I continue to challenge myself and our system to be a better version of ourselves always. Even with mistakes, setbacks, and upsets, I always try to learn. So I want to put out an apology for your community.
Speaker 1:I tried to be as authentic as I could as I was there. I didn't always speak my truth and it is still something I need to work on. Finding a collective voice in a system of many is tricksy at best and heartbreaking at worst. But owning all of it, gathering up those pieces and trying to put them together in a solid way is time consuming and very humbling experience. And if that doesn't work, I always figured I could just grab all those pieces and make a run for it.
Speaker 1:That's funny. In peace, MultiMees. MultiMees, thank you for your email. It's always so insightful, and we are grateful for your words and accept them for the beautiful gift that they are. We are loving this metaphor of the straw because as you may know, this is the stuff that bricks are made from.
Speaker 1:And it's a powerful, powerful thing to use the resources we have and to make something strong and beautiful out of that and use our experiences for ourselves as we ourselves become strong and beautiful. And I think that's a wonderful thing. Serenity shares, episode three ninety seven, M standing up. Oh, my heart cries for the kids and for the ones who stand up in their behalf. Good job, Emma.
Speaker 1:And then they share a personal story that I won't get into, but they said, I couldn't help dozens of kids when they needed it, but I must say it means something to help this one. There's something in that where it somehow helps to heal from the past. It means something to have actually offered some help, doesn't it? Thank you for this vulnerable moment shared. My heart sank because I knew what you were going to say before you said it.
Speaker 1:And I am proud of you and your system for rallying together to make a difference for your child. That means you've all done a ton of internal work to be able to come this far to be so brave. I just wanted you to know that I hear you, and I understand what's between the lines of what it took for you to be so brave, and I understand the depths of the things you couldn't say. I was so moved. I sent this episode to someone else that I think needs to hear what you have to say.
Speaker 1:I think it will help her too. Oh my goodness. Again, thank you so much. And really sharing specific episodes of the podcast with others who need that support is really one of the biggest ways to support the podcast as well. And so we are glad this episode resonated with you, although it's heartbreaking that it did.
Speaker 1:And we so appreciate that it was a resource to help someone else. Thank you for sharing with us. In the community, in the System Speak fans group, on the specific podcast episodes topic, we have the following notes to share. The unseen one says, trying to get back into listening. I want to catch up.
Speaker 1:August 2019 episodes, nachos. I'm three minutes in and bawling. This one is a bit real. Gonna have to pause again. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1:Right? It gets better. It gets better. Hang in there. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1:I promise. I promise it gets better. It is a hard thing, those difficult years we all went through the pandemic, but also therapy. It gets so hard before it gets better, but I promise on the other side, it is so much better. Ona shares.
Speaker 1:I am back after being in a proverbial desert. Well, I'm not quite through it, but I am so thankful to be back here. I have been keeping up with the podcast for the most part, but this morning I went back through the episodes and found one I somehow missed in the past called Family Trauma Episode 115. Emma, you did such a great job introducing it. There was so much to explain to all of us exactly what went down, and I loved how protective you are with your children and husband.
Speaker 1:It really touched my heart to hear the whole family discussing what trauma is, regulating, and triggers. It really helped several of my littles to understand why some of us get so angry or sad, but not just that. I mean, they realized why there can be big anger and big sadness. Thank you for including this podcast in the library. Oh my goodness, what a traumatizing moment in our history.
Speaker 1:And I'm so grateful that, again, making meaning out of what is hard and difficult and violating and giving purpose to it and using it for good and for healing is maybe one of the most powerful things we can do for ourselves. Thank you so much. Andy says, I love Elle. So many feelings come with these episodes. Gratitude for the relationships that endure and grieving the ones that couldn't be for whatever reasons.
Speaker 1:Hearing you remember and feel through those years is so good for the soul. Oh, Andes, thank you for sharing. Elle is continuing her own journey through therapy and continuing to heal as well. And it's just been a beautiful thing to watch, and I'm so grateful for her friendship. Rainbow System said, L part two, the words church is a war zone hit us hard and stirred up some things for us.
Speaker 1:Not in an unsafe way, but like, well, crap, there's that thing we need to deal with and work through in therapy. This episode was hard, yet justifying for us as we listened to it. Church trauma has always been pushed way down and locked away because we feel like somehow we made it up because it's church and those things couldn't possibly happen there. And that we don't have the right to talk or deal with it and how the things that happened affected us. As hard as this was to listen to, it also was so empowering to know we're not alone and that whatever happened, happened.
Speaker 1:When the time feels safe, we can work through it and know that it's okay. Such words of courage, like for any topic, that we can work through it and also be okay. That it can be brutally hard and also that we're okay. That it can be so distressing and also we're okay. And that we can be okay together while doing this hard work, that we don't have to be alone in it, that we were alone in the past, but we are not alone now.
Speaker 1:It is so, so powerful and healing. Thank you, Rainbow System for sharing. Andy shares, listening to older sessions, Bogarts, which I heard on the audiobook, it said, buggerts. Bugart's, buggerts. I don't know how to say it.
Speaker 1:Iris response, so many damn feelings. Number one, I would like to kick Kathy's ass. I'm sorry, not sorry. Two, those moments when you have to sit with the fact that no one can save you from what has already happened and how hard that is. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:Number three, you and the husband interacting is always a joy to witness. We we we're a mess and we're trying, but we're pretty just authentic in that. We're very much just ourselves, and that is how it is. And number four, I'm so thankful for your life. Oh, that's so kind.
Speaker 1:That's so kind. Cordelia said, I also felt really feisty after that episode. The unseen one says, I'm still crying my way through nachos with John Mark, and the one happy thought I keep coming back to is Maisie. Alright. We finally got the puppy.
Speaker 1:This episode was so hard because it was so validating. Thank you, Emma Sunshaw, for so much. Oh, so sweet. Deb says, that episode is one of my favorites. I have it bookmarked.
Speaker 1:If I can't stop sobbing after therapy, it helps so much to hear it and feel not alone. Shiny Diamond asked, is that the episode with him and the dog? And Deb's team said, yeah. He wants nachos and he wants a dog, and he really doesn't want to leave the friends who have a dog or the therapist. It's very sad and also sweetly touching.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness, August 2019. See, it was already happening because it started in April 2019. And so this was long before the pandemic ever happened, the beginning of the end, except the end was also a new beginning. And what healing is there in that? It's so powerful.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for sharing. On Patreon, with the early release of the great escape episode, New Moon said, This episode was beautiful and so was the song at the end. Thankful for you all and this podcast. Oh, thank you, New Moon. Thank you for the encouragement.
Speaker 1:On the blending early release, Cordelia said, so interesting. Thank you. I might need to listen to it again. I'd say a lot of my experience is spontaneous blending or at least spontaneous co consciousness. But do I know how to intentionally blend and unblend or make people stop arguing while they are co conscious?
Speaker 1:Not so much. But that idea is really helpful and would be good to work towards. And also the physical containering of topics sounds helpful Because when I just do it mentally, it doesn't work well. And I have therapy trauma relating to a previous T who had promised to return to a topic that we container, then never returned to it. She would just go dig up new trauma instead at the next session and forget all the stuff we had container that she promised to return to.
Speaker 1:So now we have a billion leaky containers instead. We start with a new T soon, so the physical form of containing would probably be good, both for me to keep topics contained and also for building trust with a new therapist. It's probably harder to just keep moving on to new topics if you have some physical form of those topics just building up. Now I have this great visual of the pile of origami filling the previous T's office. No wonder those sessions were so stressful.
Speaker 1:But luckily the podcast helped me finally figure out that I wasn't just failing therapy, but that it was a really not a good fit. So thank you. I'm so glad you got that sorted and that you are learning. And the fun thing about containers is that you can always get a new one. You can create it.
Speaker 1:You can paint it. It can be in real life. It can be in your imagination. You can decorate it however. It can be as big or as small as you want.
Speaker 1:You can make it look like anything. You can make the lid be anything like, oh, there's so many possibilities, and that's what I love about it. On elle part one, Cordelia said, after finishing if tears were prayers and listening to this episode, it really shows how each trauma in your life caused the next. Out of the frying pan into the fire, the saying goes, Trauma survivors sometimes mention feeling like there must be a personal flaw for one person to attract all of those bad things, but I can really see how each bad thing just caused the next and how trying to get out of these bad situations just wasn't even safe. And my heart hurts for you going through so many things for so long.
Speaker 1:You know what? I so appreciate someone saying this and understanding this because that, exactly that, what they just said, that it wasn't just a series of difficult circumstances. It was literally how one thing fed into the next thing. Like, I was just getting dragged along through this sea of terror and through this this it was horrible. It was awful.
Speaker 1:And that in itself is its own trauma. So to get from that piece to making my own ship, to getting myself out of the water and into the ship, to being the ship, to learning how to ride those waves and take control of my own life and be intentional about things and, empower myself to make choices, even when that sometimes means swimming upstream, is such a powerful and liberating thing, I can't even tell you. They said, I also noticed that there is this theme that the people who chose you for your heart and treated you kindly for good and right reasons are really the best sorts of people in the world. I think you really attract those good, kind people when they get the chance to meet you. That's so kind.
Speaker 1:Andy said, I'm not crying. You're crying. So funny. In response to l part two, Cordelia said, so many insights to investigate. I grew up in a religion that really pushed free agency, but also pushed that they were the one true church.
Speaker 1:I mean, this is most religions, right? And this was difficult for me in that there really wasn't agency growing up. I supposedly could choose what I believed, but since there was only one church, then to question it or possibly believe in something else had to mean that I was sinning and therefore allowing Satan to tempt me to choose wrong. So that agency was really a fallacy. And that meant that even outside of religion, any disagreement with my own mother or making any choices of my own that she disapproved of had therefore to also be influenced by Satan.
Speaker 1:That was rough. But luckily, that did cause me question what was right because it was right and not just because I was told it was right. And I found in learning about other religions that there really is a common thread between most religions. So I realized that goodness and rightness exist independent of religion, that truth really isn't true because God said so, but that any kind and loving heavenly parent said so because it was already true and they wanted the best for you. I mean, really, I have kids, and when they go to a friend's house, I want them to not steal because that's hurting their friend and their relationship with others, not just because I said so and because they might get caught.
Speaker 1:So wouldn't any loving heavenly parent be the same? And after years of seeking and trauma around supposedly searching incorrectly, I had this thought that any kind and loving God is more worried about people doing right than being right. That maybe spending so much time focused on finding the right religion is missing the point. And I had the audacity to decide that any god who is more worried about you being in the right club or doing things just because he or she said so is not a god worth following. And if I go to hell for that, I'm fine with it.
Speaker 1:Being expected to mindlessly follow orders and never think or disagree is more of the same trauma that I grew up with, and I don't need to assign that as my spiritual goal. Oh my goodness. I love this so much. And so overall, I'd really say I'm more of an atheist at this point, but I tend to feel like if a loving God just showed up one day, he'd just be like, hey. Let's catch up.
Speaker 1:You wanna meet for lunch? I sent you off to Earth and haven't heard from you in ages. Let's catch up because I care about you. And I'd share about life, and he'd say, do you want some advice or just a listening ear? And that would just be fine.
Speaker 1:No fire and brimstone for not attending church. Just a nice warm chat and a hug. Oh my goodness. There's so much I love about this. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:On Elle part three, they said, I feel like she put into words what I felt when I heard that we are not friends comment from the previous tee. Being friends for your littles meant being seen and loved and validated by someone who was safe. Kids don't always have the right vocabulary to be precise with words. So her saying you're not friends was like saying you're not seen. You are not enough.
Speaker 1:You are not safe. You are rejected. I had to pause recording this because I had to go cry after reading that. So thanks a lot, They said, and then to feel that sting as an adult, my guess would be that even those adult parts had a very tomorrow is today sort of experience. I know that happens for me when those hurt and rejected feelings of littles are pulled up.
Speaker 1:It's really devastating to feel those deep and painful emotions and also know that they are over, but yet experience the feelings anyway, even with a safe husband and family, even with work, even with a whole new location and friends. It really makes them never ending. I often pull up Billy Joel's song Tomorrow is Today and play it when I feel like that. It could be really triggering for some, but for me, it is really validating to hear depression and suicidality expressed in such a beautiful and emotional piece. Somehow the idea that someone else gets it and also lived through it to go on and write other fantastic pieces brings a lot of hope in those hopeless moments.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for sharing. In response to ELL part four, they said, so you said at the beginning regarding the effect your college experience had on family, I was the cause, the final destruction. And I related to a more neutral experience. I often ask students with learning differences who have failed out of multiple schools because the school provided instruction that was actually detrimental for their needs, causing the student both to not make progress and to gain a really negative self image. And the whole experience ends up being really hard on families and often causes more fighting at home because nobody is getting what they need and everyone is feeling on edge and really feeling like a failure.
Speaker 1:And yet once the students get the right instruction, they make progress and they heal some of that academic trauma. So in seeing that these students make progress with the right instruction, it's easy for us to see that the student was not the cause of the lack of progress or the cause of the contention at home relating to academics. The institutions that failed them were the cause. Yes, they were born into a situation like having dyslexia or ADHD, for example, that caused them to have different needs, but they weren't the cause. You are not the cause.
Speaker 1:Well, this also made me cry. So thank you so much for sharing Cordelias. We are continuing to sort through these religious trauma layers in therapy. And really so much is going on with that and the impact of that on our lives and changes we're making and transitions we're going through. And it's been really, really healing and powerful and empowering and liberating.
Speaker 1:I don't even know what to say. It's like if we are the ship, we have decided to raise our own sails.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for listening to us and for all of your support for the podcast, our books, and them being donated to survivors and the community. It means so much to us as we try to create something that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing, and healing brings hope.