Protecting Homes After the LA Fires: The Case for Fire Prevention Tech, with CitroTech's CEO Wes Bolsen

Wes Bolsen is the CEO and board member of CitroTech (NYSE AM: CITR), the company behind the only EPA Safer Choice recognized fire inhibitor in the United States. Before CitroTech, Wes co-founded LaderaTech, a wildfire prevention company built on patents from Stanford University and MIT, which he subsequently sold to Perimeter Solutions (NYSE: PRM) and joined their leadership team overseeing global wildfire prevention ahead of the company's $2 billion public listing. He also served as board member and CEO of Imidex, a medical device company focused on early-stage lung cancer detection. Earlier in his career, Wes held executive roles at Cool Planet Energy Systems, Codexis (NASDAQ: CDXS), Coskata, and ICM, and consulted at McKinsey from 2000 to 2006 across the Chicago and Palo Alto offices. Wes is based in Oceanside, California.

(02:08) From LaderaTech to CitroTech: why Wes came back
(03:21) The Palisades fire & what it changes for developers
(05:09) Why community-wide protection beats home by home
(06:55) Suppression vs. prevention: the 1-to-7 cost argument
(08:38) What home builders are hearing from insurance
(11:02) Fire resilience as a marketing differentiator
(14:39) Cost of fire-resistant construction vs. traditional methods
(16:31) The three layers of CitroTech's approach
(22:27) The Hexion JV
(26:01) Getting into Lennar, DR Horton, KB Homes, and national spec
(27:22) Fire risk across California, Colorado, Montana & Idaho
(29:03) Mass timber, CLT, and the fire retardancy case
(31:43) What a REIT looks like after deploying CitroTech
(33:34) Collaboration superpower: Jesus and Elon Musk

🏙️ Learn more:
-Visit CitroTech
-Wes Bolsen on LinkedIn

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-State of Office Forum: NYC | 11/4
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Creators and Guests

Host

Edward Cohen

Host & Executive Producer at Tangent

Guest

Wes Bolsen

Board Member & CEO of CitroTech

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Wes Bolsen Audio Episode
===

Edward: [00:00:00] [00:00:01] [00:00:02] Hi, I'm [00:00:03] Edward Cohen, [00:00:04] and this is [00:00:05] Tangent, a Commercial [00:00:06] Observer podcast. [00:00:07] [00:00:08] [00:00:09] [00:00:10] The [00:00:11] January [00:00:12] 2026 [00:00:13] Palisades Fire was the [00:00:14] most destructive in [00:00:15] California history. [00:00:16] More than [00:00:17] 16,000 [00:00:18] structures [00:00:19] destroyed, over $40 [00:00:20] billion in [00:00:21] insured losses [00:00:22] from a single event. [00:00:23] Major [00:00:24] insurance have pulled [00:00:25] back from writing [00:00:26] new homeowner [00:00:27] policies in California.[00:00:28]

[00:00:29] Developers in high-risk [00:00:30] fire zones are [00:00:31] struggling to finance and [00:00:32] permit projects, [00:00:33] and the [00:00:34] response to all of it has [00:00:35] been largely the [00:00:36] same for decades, [00:00:37] planes [00:00:38] dropping [00:00:39] retardant after the fire [00:00:40] has already started. [00:00:41] However, [00:00:42] there are products that can [00:00:43] make wood [00:00:44] non-flammable before [00:00:45] a fire starts. [00:00:46] There are systems that [00:00:47] can spray [00:00:48] vegetation ahead of an [00:00:49] approaching fire.[00:00:50]

Most of the real estate [00:00:51] industry has no [00:00:52] idea any of it [00:00:53] exists. [00:00:54] I'm happy to [00:00:55] say we do have the [00:00:56] perfect guest to talk about [00:00:57] this today. Our [00:00:58] guest today is [00:00:59] Wes Bolson, [00:01:00] CEO of [00:01:01] Citrotech. [00:01:02] Wes, where does [00:01:03] this podcast find you?[00:01:04]

Wes: Ah, [00:01:05] I'm actually out, in [00:01:06] Oceanside, [00:01:07] California, just south [00:01:08] of Los [00:01:09] Angeles in the, [00:01:10] Palisades area, which is [00:01:11] where our manufacturing of [00:01:12] CitraTech [00:01:13] occurs, and we have a [00:01:14] great team out [00:01:15] here, working really [00:01:16] hard during fire [00:01:17] season. and I came out [00:01:18] to meet with them and [00:01:19] a bunch of our new [00:01:20] partners that are, [00:01:21] uh, helping to [00:01:22] get CitraTech out [00:01:23] into the [00:01:24] environment

Edward: some, uh, [00:01:25] go away from the fire, [00:01:26] but you go towards the [00:01:27] fire

Wes: [00:01:28] You know, I think in our [00:01:29] industry, [00:01:30] being in the fire industry, [00:01:31] many of us [00:01:32] actually, uh, [00:01:33] enjoy [00:01:34] being able to help [00:01:35] protect [00:01:36] assets [00:01:37] and, uh, prevent [00:01:38] fires, so but [00:01:39] many times you do have to [00:01:40] go towards the fire, [00:01:41] Edward

Edward: Well, [00:01:42] thank you for [00:01:43] your service and your [00:01:44] bravery. Wes, [00:01:45] you came into [00:01:46] CitraTech about [00:01:47] 12 months ago [00:01:48] with a background in [00:01:49] protection technology [00:01:50] and AI. [00:01:51] What made you take [00:01:52] the leap into [00:01:53] fire [00:01:54] prevention?

Wes: Actually, [00:01:55] before, this, I [00:01:56] actually helped build [00:01:57] one of the world's [00:01:58] leading wildfire [00:01:59] prevention companies, a [00:02:00] breakthrough out of Stanford [00:02:01] University and [00:02:02] MIT that, uh, [00:02:03] was a polymer [00:02:04] that, became the [00:02:05] leading fire prevention [00:02:06] technology. [00:02:07] Sold that to the [00:02:08] company that drops [00:02:09] all the red fire [00:02:10] retardant coming out of the [00:02:11] sky, and [00:02:12] led global [00:02:13] wildfire prevention for [00:02:14] them.

[00:02:15] So, interestingly, [00:02:16] I have a background [00:02:17] in fire [00:02:18] prevention, fire [00:02:19] protection, in a [00:02:20] global, nature. [00:02:21] And [00:02:22] what made me [00:02:23] come back into the [00:02:24] industry [00:02:25] was, [00:02:26] that I found a [00:02:27] product that was [00:02:28] in some ways [00:02:29] better than what I had [00:02:30] developed. it [00:02:31] built on new [00:02:32] technology, safer [00:02:33] for the environment [00:02:34] and more [00:02:35] effective to prevent [00:02:36] fires and protect [00:02:37] assets.

And it's [00:02:38] funny, when you build a [00:02:39] company, very [00:02:40] difficult to come back [00:02:41] into an industry [00:02:42] that, [00:02:43] uh, you've built a [00:02:44] lot of relationships [00:02:45] in. And [00:02:46] so, a better [00:02:47] product with better [00:02:48] environmental results [00:02:49] is really why [00:02:50] I came back in, and [00:02:51] believing in what we are [00:02:52] doing here at [00:02:53] Ziprotec

Edward: [00:02:54] Fascinating. [00:02:55] so let's talk [00:02:56] about what's been on [00:02:57] everyone's mind in [00:02:58] California and every [00:02:59] time we hear about a [00:03:00] fire, which is the [00:03:01] Pacific [00:03:02] Palisades fire. it [00:03:03] produced over $40 [00:03:04] billion [00:03:05] to date in [00:03:06] insured losses, [00:03:07] just from that event [00:03:08] alone. So [00:03:09] for a home [00:03:10] developer or asset [00:03:11] manager with the [00:03:12] western state [00:03:13] exposure, how [00:03:14] does an event like [00:03:15] that change the [00:03:16] math on land [00:03:17] acquisition, [00:03:18] construction budgets, and [00:03:19] holding strategies?[00:03:20]

Wes: [00:03:21] Yeah, I think we have to [00:03:22] look, I mean, obviously we'll [00:03:23] talk at some point [00:03:24] about [00:03:25] insurability as well. Are we going [00:03:26] to build homes? [00:03:27] and how do we [00:03:28] protect [00:03:29] communities at the [00:03:30] [00:03:31] wildland-urban interface, [00:03:32] where we go [00:03:33] from the [00:03:34] wildland coming [00:03:35] into where our homes [00:03:36] are and where our [00:03:37] communities are, and we [00:03:38] really need to build [00:03:39] resilient [00:03:40] communities.

that's something that [00:03:41] we start and we [00:03:42] go from the inside [00:03:43] out. How we build the [00:03:44] home itself [00:03:45] is going to change. [00:03:46] more fire [00:03:47] prone, code [00:03:48] compliant, fire [00:03:49] retardant siding and [00:03:50] building materials, a [00:03:51] defensible space. [00:03:52] So you start with the [00:03:53] home itself and then you [00:03:54] say, "How do we [00:03:55] actually protect that home if a [00:03:56] fire was [00:03:57] approaching?"

Something [00:03:58] CitraTech uh, so not [00:03:59] just the wood [00:04:00] that could become CitraTech [00:04:01] fire [00:04:02] retardant-treated wood at the [00:04:03] home level. you know, [00:04:04] you have [00:04:05] a developer say, [00:04:06] "Okay, we need these [00:04:07] homes to have a, [00:04:08] CitraSafe system that could [00:04:09] almost [00:04:10] deploy like an airbag, [00:04:11] if you will, around the [00:04:12] home, as an analogy, [00:04:13] that would spray [00:04:14] CitraTech out around the [00:04:15] home."

But then [00:04:16] we go further. [00:04:17] Let's start preventing the [00:04:18] fires where they're starting, [00:04:19] and I [00:04:20] think the insurance [00:04:21] industry, the [00:04:22] developers, [00:04:23] home builders, [00:04:24] have a role to [00:04:25] play saying, "Let's [00:04:26] prevent fires [00:04:27] under the power lines, [00:04:28] along roadsides, [00:04:29] along railroad [00:04:30] lines, and start [00:04:31] preventing them." Every [00:04:32] fire, funny enough, [00:04:33] starts as two inches [00:04:34] tall.

[00:04:35] Even when it ends up [00:04:36] with a $40 billion [00:04:37] worth of damage, [00:04:38] every [00:04:39] single fire [00:04:40] starts just a [00:04:41] couple inches tall [00:04:42] and then spreads. [00:04:43] That's where [00:04:44] CitraTech is coming into [00:04:45] play, help [00:04:46] prevent ignitions, [00:04:47] protect assets [00:04:48] in the path of that [00:04:49] fire.

Edward: [00:04:50] fascinating [00:04:51] framing. just in [00:04:52] California alone, there are [00:04:53] more than two [00:04:54] million [00:04:55] homes, that are at [00:04:56] high or very [00:04:57] high [00:04:58] wildfire risk according [00:04:59] to [00:05:00] CoreLogic. [00:05:01] so this is a [00:05:02] portfolio [00:05:03] math question that we're [00:05:04] talking about

Wes: [00:05:05] everyone has to [00:05:06] stand together. And [00:05:07] so if your home, [00:05:08] if your single home [00:05:09] in a community [00:05:10] is, [00:05:11] protected by [00:05:12] CitraTech, that may [00:05:13] not be enough. [00:05:14] And so I think [00:05:15] builders, commercial [00:05:16] builders especially, [00:05:17] and as we look at, [00:05:18] uh, multifamily [00:05:19] housing and things, [00:05:20] how we build [00:05:21] that started as [00:05:22] code compliant, [00:05:23] and that's where [00:05:24] CitraTech making [00:05:25] fire [00:05:26] retardant-treated OSB board, and [00:05:27] plywood, and [00:05:28] mass timber, and [00:05:29] things like that, that we've [00:05:30] talked about, [00:05:31] how we build [00:05:32] with fire [00:05:33] retardant-treated wood and not [00:05:34] having to [00:05:35] pressure impregnate [00:05:36] it or [00:05:37] incise it or weaken that [00:05:38] wood.

[00:05:39] Those are gonna become, [00:05:40] core things even [00:05:41] in more [00:05:42] urban [00:05:43] environments in how we [00:05:44] build, different. [00:05:45] We have communities that [00:05:46] aren't getting permitted [00:05:47] to even build [00:05:48] because [00:05:49] they are approaching the [00:05:50] wildland-urban interface.

[00:05:51] Or if you built [00:05:52] the home, you [00:05:53] can't get it [00:05:54] insured, [00:05:55] which means you can't sell the [00:05:56] home. So [00:05:57] it all ties [00:05:58] together really [00:05:59] in how we [00:06:00] build and then how we [00:06:01] protect those [00:06:02] assets, and I think we have [00:06:03] to do it at a [00:06:04] community-wide scale, [00:06:05] not just [00:06:06] home by home

Edward: [00:06:07] w- we're all in this [00:06:08] together quite [00:06:09] literally. I mean, it [00:06:10] reminds me [00:06:11] of, [00:06:12] another, environmental [00:06:13] or, or [00:06:14] insurance, driven [00:06:15] issue or [00:06:16] insurance awareness issue, which [00:06:17] is water leaks in [00:06:18] buildings. I mean, [00:06:19] when we were [00:06:20] helping multifamily [00:06:21] buildings [00:06:22] install water leak [00:06:23] detection, [00:06:24] if there was a [00:06:25] responsible [00:06:26] resident installing [00:06:27] leak [00:06:28] detectors in their [00:06:29] apartment but the neighbor [00:06:30] upstairs [00:06:31] didn't, then [00:06:32] there was very little [00:06:33] to stop a [00:06:34] water leak, on [00:06:35] time, if not [00:06:36] everyone is in it[00:06:37]

Wes: Right. [00:06:38] Yeah, that's I think a very [00:06:39] important aspect [00:06:40] is, having, [00:06:41] entire [00:06:42] HOAs, entire [00:06:43] communities, entire zip [00:06:44] codes. I we have [00:06:45] insurance companies that are [00:06:46] uninsuring [00:06:47] entire zip codes. [00:06:48] How do we [00:06:49] get to [00:06:50] where, [00:06:51] responsible parties [00:06:52] start to, [00:06:53] stand and they talk to their [00:06:54] neighbor? and it [00:06:55] literally is, neighbor to [00:06:56] neighbor, community by [00:06:57] community, coming [00:06:58] in and saying, "We need to do [00:06:59] this together."

[00:07:00] But then we go and [00:07:01] we start [00:07:02] putting some [00:07:03] of the [00:07:04] needed fire [00:07:05] prevention [00:07:06] onto [00:07:07] vegetation management. [00:07:08] You and I are already [00:07:09] paying in our electric [00:07:10] bill for [00:07:11] trees to be trimmed and [00:07:12] grass to be mowed [00:07:13] by our [00:07:14] utility companies. [00:07:15] How about we [00:07:16] put some onto [00:07:17] the utility company to [00:07:18] say, "Let's start [00:07:19] treating CitriTech [00:07:20] under those power lines, [00:07:21] along [00:07:22] those railroad [00:07:23] lines that [00:07:24] have vegetation [00:07:25] management budgets"?[00:07:26]

I think CitriTech is a [00:07:27] natural fit [00:07:28] for us to [00:07:29] communicate to the people [00:07:30] we're paying, that [00:07:31] we want you [00:07:32] to [00:07:33] focus on [00:07:34] prevention [00:07:35] and not just [00:07:36] suppressing the fires [00:07:37] after they start, [00:07:38] which is a very [00:07:39] difficult job as we saw [00:07:40] in the Palisades, as we [00:07:41] see in so many of these [00:07:42] fires, even in [00:07:43] Canada or over [00:07:44] in Europe, uh, [00:07:45] earlier this year.

we [00:07:46] see entire [00:07:47] communities being, burned [00:07:48] down, like [00:07:49] Spokane. how do we [00:07:50] get that [00:07:51] moved back and put some [00:07:52] pressure on preventing [00:07:53] those ignitions versus [00:07:54] just suppressing [00:07:55] them?

Edward: this is also [00:07:56] the, what's going on with [00:07:57] the anti-aging, [00:07:58] right? do we look [00:07:59] for cancer cures [00:08:00] and antibiotics, or [00:08:01] do we look for [00:08:02] actually the human [00:08:03] cells not, becoming [00:08:04] old and [00:08:05] prone to [00:08:06] diseases?

Wes: this is the [00:08:07] challenge I think we've had. [00:08:08] We don't run out of money [00:08:09] to suppress [00:08:10] fires, once they [00:08:11] start, but we need to [00:08:12] have the [00:08:13] resolve [00:08:14] to put some of the [00:08:15] budget. for every dollar [00:08:16] that we spend on [00:08:17] preventing a fire, we might [00:08:18] save seven [00:08:19] or eight dollars that [00:08:20] we're already spending.[00:08:21]

So I [00:08:22] think those [00:08:23] are, resolve [00:08:24] that we bring into [00:08:25] our state and [00:08:26] local, and then [00:08:27] federal government, [00:08:28] as well as, like I [00:08:29] say, utilities, [00:08:30] railroads, and even [00:08:31] transportation [00:08:32] agencies, treating [00:08:33] roadside [00:08:34] ignitions and, and [00:08:35] having those kind of, [00:08:36] prevention [00:08:37] aspects

Edward: So when [00:08:38] you talk to [00:08:39] major home builders [00:08:40] and developers right [00:08:41] now, [00:08:42] what are they telling about [00:08:43] how fire risk [00:08:44] is showing up in their [00:08:45] construction [00:08:46] decisions and their [00:08:47] financing?

Wes: Yeah, [00:08:48] I think they're always [00:08:49] gonna start with code [00:08:50] compliant. [00:08:51] What do they have to [00:08:52] do? Because every [00:08:53] single dollar going [00:08:54] into that new home or that [00:08:55] new build is [00:08:56] being looked at [00:08:57] for [00:08:58] affordability, which [00:08:59] obviously everyone [00:09:00] appreciates. But what [00:09:01] I'm hearing is home [00:09:02] builders are saying, [00:09:03] "If your [00:09:04] home is being built [00:09:05] or, a [00:09:06] whole development is [00:09:07] being built, commercial [00:09:08] development, [00:09:09] in a fire-prone [00:09:10] region, [00:09:11] trade-offs are starting to be [00:09:12] made between do I want [00:09:13] the granite [00:09:14] countertop [00:09:15] or would I rather [00:09:16] have some [00:09:17] additional, even [00:09:18] beyond code, [00:09:19] fire [00:09:20] compliant, [00:09:21] fire-resistant, [00:09:22] fire-resilient, [00:09:23] materials?

how [00:09:24] would I put a [00:09:25] CitraSafe system in on my [00:09:26] home?" It's a [00:09:27] choice that a homeowner [00:09:28] could make, or [00:09:29] maybe the developer [00:09:30] even says, [00:09:31] "Hey, not [00:09:32] every home may need [00:09:33] it, but at least all [00:09:34] the homes that [00:09:35] are facing [00:09:36] the [00:09:37] wildland urban [00:09:38] interface, we're gonna mandate [00:09:39] that they have [00:09:40] systems that would [00:09:41] spray out fire [00:09:42] retardant."

Safe, [00:09:43] environmentally safe. [00:09:44] First time the Environmental [00:09:45] Protection Agency has [00:09:46] ever recognized a [00:09:47] fire retardant. [00:09:48] You can actually build [00:09:49] it into the home or [00:09:50] into the structure. [00:09:51] What we're [00:09:52] seeing is, [00:09:53] large home builders [00:09:54] and some of the biggest home [00:09:55] builders in America [00:09:56] having [00:09:57] trouble, one, [00:09:58] with, [00:09:59] insuring those homes that they're [00:10:00] getting ready to build, [00:10:01] but two, [00:10:02] they're looking at [00:10:03] let's put this [00:10:04] choice into the [00:10:05] homeowners, as an option [00:10:06] to be [00:10:07] able to protect their [00:10:08] home, to give them [00:10:09] peace of mind and [00:10:10] confidence, that [00:10:11] this home is being built in [00:10:12] this beautiful [00:10:13] wildland-urban [00:10:14] interface area, [00:10:15] but now it [00:10:16] has the protection [00:10:17] needed, for you and your [00:10:18] family as well.

Edward: [00:10:19] I'll be curious. I [00:10:20] mean, we [00:10:21] know, like you said, [00:10:22] home builders, you know, they'll [00:10:23] see what they need to [00:10:24] do, what they are [00:10:25] required to do by [00:10:26] regulation, and [00:10:27] then what, you know, what [00:10:28] pencils out for [00:10:29] their target [00:10:30] return. I'm [00:10:31] curious from the [00:10:32] homeowner, the home [00:10:33] buyer side, I [00:10:34] think there was a [00:10:35] statistic that people in [00:10:36] general do [00:10:37] more [00:10:38] elective [00:10:39] surgeries [00:10:40] than [00:10:41] surgeries that they [00:10:42] need, [00:10:43] AKA, people are more [00:10:44] prone to do [00:10:45] plastic surgery [00:10:46] than, uh, surgery that [00:10:47] they actually [00:10:48] need for health [00:10:49] reasons.

I [00:10:50] wonder if the, the [00:10:51] sexy, uh, [00:10:52] granite countertop [00:10:53] is gonna [00:10:54] win in the [00:10:55] conversation if you can [00:10:56] choose between [00:10:57] a [00:10:58] fire-resilient home [00:10:59] or a [00:11:00] nice [00:11:01] countertop in your kitchen[00:11:02]

Wes: I would [00:11:03] agree with you is, the [00:11:04] beautiful [00:11:05] faucets and the [00:11:06] really nice [00:11:07] countertops and the [00:11:08] beautiful [00:11:09] bathroom, are all [00:11:10] really sexy. [00:11:11] But when your [00:11:12] home is put at [00:11:13] fire risk, [00:11:14] how do we bring [00:11:15] that to the [00:11:16] top of their list of [00:11:17] elective [00:11:18] surgeries, or choices that are [00:11:19] made on [00:11:20] these homes? [00:11:21] I think it has to come [00:11:22] down to, if [00:11:23] you, have [00:11:24] the insurance.

I [00:11:25] think insurance plays a [00:11:26] key role in this, [00:11:27] in driving, [00:11:28] "Hey, we, we can't [00:11:29] insure your home if you're [00:11:30] not having [00:11:31] the [00:11:32] options, if you will, on [00:11:33] that home that [00:11:34] are helping to protect [00:11:35] it." some of those are [00:11:36] mandated, some of those are [00:11:37] choices, that [00:11:38] people make. so [00:11:39] I, I think home builders [00:11:40] will play a role [00:11:41] in, as we can bring [00:11:42] down the [00:11:43] affordability, and make it [00:11:44] cheaper and [00:11:45] easier and [00:11:46] better [00:11:47] for, uh, building those [00:11:48] homes, I think it, [00:11:49] becomes a [00:11:50] marketing point.

[00:11:51] pick [00:11:52] big home builder [00:11:53] A says, "You know what? [00:11:54] We didn't have to do [00:11:55] this, [00:11:56] but we could [00:11:57] choose to do this." [00:11:58] I actually had a [00:11:59] home builder ask me [00:12:00] if I could make, [00:12:01] uh, Citritec [00:12:02] blue. [00:12:03] I said, "Well, sure. [00:12:04] Why do you want it blue?" [00:12:05] They said, "When people [00:12:06] drive by, what they [00:12:07] will see is we are [00:12:08] building homes [00:12:09] in this really [00:12:10] cool way with Citritec, [00:12:11] [00:12:12] and, they will see that [00:12:13] that lumber [00:12:14] is actually [00:12:15] treated with Citritec to make [00:12:16] it fire-resistant."

And [00:12:17] I said, "Of course we could [00:12:18] make it blue. It's [00:12:19] clear naturally. It [00:12:20] looks like [00:12:21] almost water. [00:12:22] But we could put a [00:12:23] food coloring in it." [00:12:24] So those are [00:12:25] interestingly some of the [00:12:26] questions and the [00:12:27] fun questions you get [00:12:28] asked. I can make it green [00:12:29] or red or blue [00:12:30] or any color you'd [00:12:31] like. and so [00:12:32] those are some questions [00:12:33] I think home builders are going [00:12:34] to distinguish [00:12:35] themselves, from [00:12:36] somebody else that's just [00:12:37] the lowest [00:12:38] cost [00:12:39] budget home [00:12:40] versus somebody who's [00:12:41] building it with, [00:12:42] characteristics [00:12:43] that last [00:12:44] longer, and then they [00:12:45] can market off those [00:12:46] points as well.

Edward: [00:12:47] Fascinating. I [00:12:48] mean, we- [00:12:49] and [00:12:50] I think that makes a lot of [00:12:51] sense, right? from [00:12:52] a marketing [00:12:53] perspective, I, I can see [00:12:54] how, this would [00:12:55] be beneficial, [00:12:56] but at the same [00:12:57] time it would [00:12:58] also raise a [00:12:59] question, hold on, [00:13:00] [00:13:01] why do I even [00:13:02] want to consider [00:13:03] buying or [00:13:04] developing in an [00:13:05] area that is [00:13:06] prone to [00:13:07] fires, right?[00:13:08]

It's all those, those [00:13:09] things like, "Oh, we, [00:13:10] we have the [00:13:11] latest, flock [00:13:12] camera [00:13:13] technologies to catch [00:13:14] robbers in your area." And it's [00:13:15] like, wait, wait, hold on. Why do [00:13:16] you need to catch robbers in [00:13:17] my area? Are there too [00:13:18] many?

Wes: Right. I [00:13:19] think, uh, you know, where [00:13:20] we go is as [00:13:21] humans continue [00:13:22] to expand, I mean, [00:13:23] yes, we'll have [00:13:24] more, commercial [00:13:25] housing, more [00:13:26] multi-family housing [00:13:27] built, but, uh, [00:13:28] the white picket [00:13:29] fence American [00:13:30] dream with [00:13:31] the, uh, two and a half [00:13:32] children, uh, a lot of [00:13:33] times [00:13:34] spans out into that [00:13:35] wildland-urban [00:13:36] interface.

Or, [00:13:37] let's be, [00:13:38] honest with each other for a minute, [00:13:39] some of the wealthier [00:13:40] homeowners who are wanting to [00:13:41] move into [00:13:42] Montana, Idaho, [00:13:43] other portions [00:13:44] of the country or [00:13:45] Lake Tahoe, [00:13:46] and they have their second [00:13:47] home. From [00:13:48] Los Angeles, they go up [00:13:49] to Lake Tahoe, [00:13:50] and [00:13:51] there's a very [00:13:52] fire-prone region [00:13:53] there.

I think [00:13:54] that's where, if [00:13:55] you have a, a [00:13:56] multimillion-dollar [00:13:57] home, you [00:13:58] almost have to start [00:13:59] choosing some of these [00:14:00] options. It's not [00:14:01] always the [00:14:02] base level home. [00:14:03] It's the one, two, [00:14:04] three, four, five [00:14:05] million plus home [00:14:06] that it's [00:14:07] in that [00:14:08] beautiful area, that [00:14:09] becomes for [00:14:10] custom builders, [00:14:11] for [00:14:12] architects, for [00:14:13] developers that are doing [00:14:14] something [00:14:15] for [00:14:16] not the [00:14:17] everyday person.

But [00:14:18] if you have the [00:14:19] income to have that second [00:14:20] home, lot of [00:14:21] times, it makes [00:14:22] absolute [00:14:23] sense that you would build [00:14:24] that home, design [00:14:25] that home, [00:14:26] architects [00:14:27] integrate it [00:14:28] to that new home, [00:14:29] and I think [00:14:30] Ciprotech will [00:14:31] almost always win [00:14:32] with, those [00:14:33] [00:14:34] decision-makers, and builders

Edward: [00:14:35] and we're gonna [00:14:36] talk about Citrotech's [00:14:37] technology in [00:14:38] just a second. But [00:14:39] just curious, how does the [00:14:40] cost of, [00:14:41] building [00:14:42] fire-resistant homes [00:14:43] compare to [00:14:44] traditional building [00:14:45] methods? it... You [00:14:46] obviously have, a [00:14:47] little bit more than a [00:14:48] standard dimensional [00:14:49] lumber. but the [00:14:50] ease of treating, [00:14:51] so when you don't have to [00:14:52] ship a [00:14:53] two-by-four or [00:14:54] two-by-six off and [00:14:55] have it pressure [00:14:56] treated and then [00:14:57] ship it back [00:14:58] and then wait for that [00:14:59] time, there's a [00:15:00] lot of cost and [00:15:01] time lost [00:15:02] in [00:15:03] pressure-treated lumber and building [00:15:04] materials, [00:15:05] engineered wood products.

Wes: [00:15:06] If what we could do [00:15:07] is have Citrotech all [00:15:08] the way [00:15:09] up in the front end [00:15:10] of the process [00:15:11] at the [00:15:12] mill, at the engineered [00:15:13] wood products company, [00:15:14] the biggest wood [00:15:15] products companies in the [00:15:16] country, the [00:15:17] warehouses, Georgia-Pacific, [00:15:18] Louisiana-Pacific, [00:15:19] Boise Cascades of the [00:15:20] world, those are [00:15:21] our companies [00:15:22] that, you could start treating the [00:15:23] lumber and have [00:15:24] some treated, some [00:15:25] untreated.

The [00:15:26] cost would [00:15:27] actually be not [00:15:28] that much more. [00:15:29] Now, of course, [00:15:30] there's, [00:15:31] value, that will be sold, [00:15:32] but I, I, I [00:15:33] can see a standard. It [00:15:34] becomes a standard [00:15:35] that, hey, [00:15:36] this is so [00:15:37] easy to treat [00:15:38] because Citrotech can just [00:15:39] soak into the [00:15:40] cellulosic fibers. you [00:15:41] actually could just take a [00:15:42] two-by-four, dip [00:15:43] it in a [00:15:44] big bucket of [00:15:45] Citrotech, [00:15:46] and that will be, [00:15:47] fire-retardant treated [00:15:48] wood.

it's that [00:15:49] crazy [00:15:50] because it's the same [00:15:51] ingredients that are found [00:15:52] in Coca-Cola. [00:15:53] it's a potassium [00:15:54] citrate. It [00:15:55] soaks into the [00:15:56] cellulosic fibers. [00:15:57] comes from grain, [00:15:58] fermented [00:15:59] grain, that's neutralized. [00:16:00] So h- it's [00:16:01] that safe and [00:16:02] that, effective, [00:16:03] and I think that's [00:16:04] why, and I, hope [00:16:05] we get a chance to talk, [00:16:06] briefly today about the [00:16:07] [00:16:08] Hexion-Citrotech joint venture.

[00:16:09] That is [00:16:10] why we formed [00:16:11] up [00:16:12] a fifty-fifty joint [00:16:13] venture with one of the world [00:16:14] leaders in engineered wood [00:16:15] products and, and [00:16:16] glues and resins [00:16:17] to be able to get [00:16:18] Citrotech [00:16:19] into the [00:16:20] largest engineered wood [00:16:21] products companies and [00:16:22] start having that [00:16:23] fire-retardant treated wood [00:16:24] produced.

Edward: [00:16:25] Certainly. [00:16:26] we're gonna go over [00:16:27] the Hexion [00:16:28] partnership [00:16:29] joint venture. [00:16:30] but walk us through [00:16:31] Citritech's technology. , [00:16:32] I mean, you've spoken [00:16:33] about [00:16:34] helping [00:16:35] homes directly, but [00:16:36] also the community [00:16:37] approach [00:16:38] where actually [00:16:39] infrastructure and [00:16:40] everything [00:16:41] surrounding [00:16:42] home communities [00:16:43] is what will [00:16:44] help us prevent [00:16:45] the fires in the first [00:16:46] place.

So walk us through the [00:16:47] fire timeline [00:16:48] before ignition, [00:16:49] during a fire, [00:16:50] and, and in the [00:16:51] construction of, the home [00:16:52] or building itself?[00:16:53]

Wes: Yeah, it's really [00:16:54] three layers. First [00:16:55] layer is in [00:16:56] the wood products, in [00:16:57] the building materials [00:16:58] themselves. Let's [00:16:59] have CitriTech [00:17:00] infuse CitriTech [00:17:01] inside, if you will, [00:17:02] on [00:17:03] those, dimensional [00:17:04] lumber. Let's go in [00:17:05] the future towards [00:17:06] siding and [00:17:07] building materials, [00:17:08] weather-resistant, [00:17:09] fire retardant [00:17:10] siding and building materials.[00:17:11]

Let's have the [00:17:12] homes built with [00:17:13] CitriTech inside, [00:17:14] and that's what I was just [00:17:15] talking about, how CitriTech will [00:17:16] soak into the [00:17:17] fibers and [00:17:18] then help that [00:17:19] be fire [00:17:20] retardant-treated [00:17:21] materials. I think [00:17:22] that is at the [00:17:23] top of the pyramid, [00:17:24] that as we move [00:17:25] down, we're just going [00:17:26] to start building [00:17:27] different with CitriTech.[00:17:28]

Second, [00:17:29] as we talked about, [00:17:30] is, uh, in [00:17:31] communities that are [00:17:32] at risk, you don't know [00:17:33] where fires are going to [00:17:34] be approaching homes, [00:17:35] we have [00:17:36] what would look [00:17:37] like an external [00:17:38] sprinkler system, [00:17:39] but it, it can [00:17:40] shoot out [00:17:41] CitriTech in a matter of a few [00:17:42] minutes, [00:17:43] and that doesn't need [00:17:44] to be right just [00:17:45] when a fire is [00:17:46] approaching.

It could be [00:17:47] in very [00:17:48] dangerous drought [00:17:49] situations [00:17:50] or, we have public [00:17:51] safety power [00:17:52] shutoffs. It's [00:17:53] so dangerous from [00:17:54] fire risk. [00:17:55] Your utility company [00:17:56] calls you and says, [00:17:57] "Three or four [00:17:58] days from now, we [00:17:59] may shut your power [00:18:00] off because it's [00:18:01] so dangerous." [00:18:02] Santa Ana winds [00:18:03] coming in. public [00:18:04] safety power shutoffs are just [00:18:05] part of that.

You could [00:18:06] say, "Hey, I want to [00:18:07] deploy my CitriSafe [00:18:08] system around the home [00:18:09] and help render all that [00:18:10] vegetation around it [00:18:11] non-flammable." [00:18:12] That's a second approach. [00:18:13] Again, easy to [00:18:14] spray out. Sprays [00:18:15] out just like water. [00:18:16] A homeowner could [00:18:17] spray it. You could [00:18:18] also have like a [00:18:19] contractor, [00:18:20] somebody that'd be like, [00:18:21] um, lawn and [00:18:22] garden or, or [00:18:23] vegetation that comes out [00:18:24] and fertilizes your [00:18:25] lawn.

We've got, about [00:18:26] 30 contractors [00:18:27] now, partners, [00:18:28] CitriTech partners that [00:18:29] are saying, "Hey, we will [00:18:30] come out, and we will [00:18:31] service around your [00:18:32] home and help [00:18:33] make that vegetation [00:18:34] non-flammable." [00:18:35] It's kind of the second [00:18:36] layer. The third [00:18:37] layer is really the [00:18:38] one that [00:18:39] is a huge [00:18:40] opportunity for us to shift [00:18:41] our thinking.

Have [00:18:42] CitriTech sprayed [00:18:43] in the highest-risk [00:18:44] areas. [00:18:45] This is where artificial [00:18:46] intelligence, this [00:18:47] is where what we [00:18:48] know, where are [00:18:49] fires [00:18:50] traditionally starting, [00:18:51] and where could we [00:18:52] put [00:18:53] CitriTech out under those [00:18:54] high-risk power [00:18:55] lines, [00:18:56] along those railroad lines, [00:18:57] along those [00:18:58] roadsides? How do [00:18:59] we even go so [00:19:00] far as to say, [00:19:01] "Let's [00:19:02] introduce good fire [00:19:03] into the landscape"?[00:19:04]

They're called [00:19:05] prescribed burns. [00:19:06] Hey, let's [00:19:07] get rid of some of that, but [00:19:08] let's do it safely. [00:19:09] Let's put CitraTech [00:19:10] around the area [00:19:11] where you would be doing [00:19:12] a prescribed burn to [00:19:13] make sure it doesn't escape, [00:19:14] to make [00:19:15] sure it [00:19:16] doesn't [00:19:17] reignite. Okay, now [00:19:18] we can do things that [00:19:19] I think the [00:19:20] community starts to [00:19:21] embrace, a community [00:19:22] wildfire prevention [00:19:23] program.

And then you [00:19:24] go all the way [00:19:25] to, [00:19:26] ground-based, systems that [00:19:27] can [00:19:28] make massive [00:19:29] area fire denial, [00:19:30] huge [00:19:31] fire breaks, [00:19:32] 100-foot, [00:19:33] 200-foot fire [00:19:34] break if a fire [00:19:35] was approaching, [00:19:36] and I think that's where [00:19:37] CitraTech will come [00:19:38] into, the [00:19:39] wildland or into the [00:19:40] field, to [00:19:41] prevent fires [00:19:42] and then protect [00:19:43] assets [00:19:44] from fires that are coming [00:19:45] at them

Edward: I [00:19:46] mean, a truly holistic [00:19:47] approach to [00:19:48] fire prevention [00:19:49] here[00:19:50]

Wes: Correct. And that's [00:19:51] where I think the [00:19:52] same basic [00:19:53] product, I mean, [00:19:54] slight differences in what [00:19:55] we put into [00:19:56] wood, but, uh, [00:19:57] pretty much the core [00:19:58] ingredients are the same. [00:19:59] And then you, look at [00:20:00] what the US Forest [00:20:01] Service, the Department of [00:20:02] Interior, US [00:20:03] military bases, [00:20:04] in a funny [00:20:05] side note for the listeners, [00:20:06] like [00:20:07] military bases, they blow [00:20:08] up a lot of things.

They have these [00:20:09] things called active [00:20:10] munition zones, and they [00:20:11] start fires. [00:20:12] Why would we not just [00:20:13] treat some of those with [00:20:14] Citrotech? we're sitting [00:20:15] here, I'm sitting next to [00:20:16] Camp Pendleton right [00:20:17] now in Southern [00:20:18] California, [00:20:19] and the community's been [00:20:20] evacuated a couple of [00:20:21] times.

These [00:20:22] are homes and [00:20:23] homeowners. Why would we [00:20:24] not [00:20:25] treat in military [00:20:26] bases, uh, [00:20:27] with Citrotech [00:20:28] environmentally safe [00:20:29] way in active [00:20:30] munition zones that we [00:20:31] know are going to have [00:20:32] fires or a [00:20:33] firing zone itself? [00:20:34] Those are the kind [00:20:35] of thinking I think [00:20:36] that, we will move to in [00:20:37] the future

Edward: . [00:20:38] Does this [00:20:39] affect in any [00:20:40] way [00:20:41] the [00:20:42] lifespan of a [00:20:43] home or the [00:20:44] structure,

Wes: some of [00:20:45] the other products [00:20:46] that have been [00:20:47] not as [00:20:48] environmentally [00:20:49] friendly, many times people are [00:20:50] using borates or [00:20:51] phosphates or other [00:20:52] things that aren't very [00:20:53] environmentally friendly [00:20:54] that can also [00:20:55] weaken some [00:20:56] of the wood or, do [00:20:57] some things to [00:20:58] it. Citrotech [00:20:59] actually based on [00:21:00] a, a citric [00:21:01] acid base.

[00:21:02] It's fermented citric [00:21:03] acid or neutralized [00:21:04] citric acid. Funny enough, [00:21:05] it's been used at [00:21:06] times to strengthen wood [00:21:07] or to have, other [00:21:08] properties. We don't [00:21:09] talk about it a lot, [00:21:10] but in [00:21:11] fact, we're seeing some [00:21:12] positive [00:21:13] mechanical [00:21:14] characteristics, when [00:21:15] using Citrotech that go [00:21:16] beyond [00:21:17] fire retardant, [00:21:18] capabilities and [00:21:19] treatment.

[00:21:20] So, in, in some ways it's [00:21:21] the opposite, but we [00:21:22] don't talk about that a [00:21:23] lot. you just wanna [00:21:24] keep [00:21:25] Citrotech in place. [00:21:26] So if it's [00:21:27] soaking into [00:21:28] wood and it's on the inside of the [00:21:29] home, obviously there's not [00:21:30] gonna rain on the [00:21:31] inside of your [00:21:32] two-by-fours and the walls. [00:21:33] If you go to the [00:21:34] outside of the house, you [00:21:35] have a weathering agent, a [00:21:36] polymer, something to [00:21:37] keep Citrotech where it [00:21:38] is.

If you go [00:21:39] into the environment, [00:21:40] you want to [00:21:41] make sure it does break [00:21:42] down. You don't [00:21:43] want it to build up. You [00:21:44] can't have toxic [00:21:45] chemicals killing [00:21:46] fish, heavy [00:21:47] metals that are found in [00:21:48] phosphates. [00:21:49] These are gonna be things that [00:21:50] people remove and say, [00:21:51] "We no longer [00:21:52] can use those [00:21:53] things in the environment. [00:21:54] I don't want them around my [00:21:55] children, my [00:21:56] pets, my [00:21:57] home, and in the [00:21:58] environment."

And [00:21:59] that's where I think, [00:22:00] Citrotech, will [00:22:01] start to [00:22:02] replace [00:22:03] legacy [00:22:04] red, retardants [00:22:05] or phosphate-based retardants, [00:22:06] uh, [00:22:07] because homeowners [00:22:08] aren't going to want them [00:22:09] around their home [00:22:10] and in their drinking water [00:22:11] and in their community. [00:22:12] And so I think [00:22:13] the important [00:22:14] environmental aspects [00:22:15] of what we're doing, will [00:22:16] start to come into [00:22:17] play for what [00:22:18] we demand, and we [00:22:19] demand [00:22:20] more environmental [00:22:21] sustainability [00:22:22] while we're demanding [00:22:23] those fire, [00:22:24] retardant, treatments [00:22:25] around our homes in the [00:22:26] community

Edward: And [00:22:27] you, like you [00:22:28] pointed out earlier, you're, [00:22:29] you're [00:22:30] going upstream [00:22:31] the value chain [00:22:32] creation here to [00:22:33] manufacturing. [00:22:34] and you're doing this [00:22:35] with the joint [00:22:36] venture with [00:22:37] Hexion. [00:22:38] So what does that [00:22:39] unlock that [00:22:40] Citrotech couldn't do on its [00:22:41] own?

Wes: Yeah, I [00:22:42] mean, Hexion has been [00:22:43] around over, I think, [00:22:44] 150 [00:22:45] years. the [00:22:46] glues... I think one time they [00:22:47] joked the [00:22:48] basis, a long time ago of, [00:22:49] like, Elmer's [00:22:50] Glue. but if you're gluing [00:22:51] together OSB [00:22:52] board and plywood and [00:22:53] all that, it actually [00:22:54] becomes pretty flammable, [00:22:55] all those glues and [00:22:56] resins and [00:22:57] things.

it was a [00:22:58] natural fit for [00:22:59] CitraTech to [00:23:00] have an [00:23:01] unbelievable partner like [00:23:02] Hexion with the [00:23:03] manufacturing [00:23:04] capabilities, with the sales [00:23:05] force, with the [00:23:06] distribution, [00:23:07] with all of [00:23:08] the pieces that we [00:23:09] had to say, [00:23:10] "How do we get this product [00:23:11] into [00:23:12] market and continue to [00:23:13] advance this product [00:23:14] that CitraTech had [00:23:15] developed?"

[00:23:16] And, it really [00:23:17] was a natural fit [00:23:18] for go-to-market. [00:23:19] It They're already working with [00:23:20] all the largest [00:23:21] engineered wood [00:23:22] companies [00:23:23] in the world. [00:23:24] So it was a global joint [00:23:25] venture that really [00:23:26] said, the names that we [00:23:27] all know, [00:23:28] Weyerhaeuser, [00:23:29] Georgia-Pacific, [00:23:30] Louisiana-Pacific, Boise [00:23:31] Cascade, West Fraser.

You just [00:23:32] keep going down the list, [00:23:33] and you see these are the [00:23:34] leading companies [00:23:35] that are [00:23:36] at the cutting [00:23:37] edge of putting new [00:23:38] products into the [00:23:39] world, and [00:23:40] Hexion was already working [00:23:41] with, already [00:23:42] integrated with most of [00:23:43] them. And [00:23:44] so it was by far the best [00:23:45] way for us, to go to [00:23:46] market and to [00:23:47] do something that we couldn't [00:23:48] do or [00:23:49] to rebuild what [00:23:50] already existed.

Edward: [00:23:51] Makes [00:23:52] sense. , Talk about [00:23:53] how you're [00:23:54] working [00:23:55] with home [00:23:56] developers. [00:23:57] CitrusSafe [00:23:58] system, as you [00:23:59] mentioned, it sprays [00:24:00] on vegetation [00:24:01] ahead of an approaching [00:24:02] fire. [00:24:03] so are you [00:24:04] finding more [00:24:05] success with the home [00:24:06] developers [00:24:07] or with the [00:24:08] custom [00:24:09] homeowners as you, [00:24:10] pointed out? [00:24:11] talk about like how [00:24:12] much work, [00:24:13] proactive work it requires [00:24:14] versus how [00:24:15] automated it is [00:24:16] as well.[00:24:17]

Wes: Yeah, we've already [00:24:18] started conversations [00:24:19] with the largest home [00:24:20] builders, in [00:24:21] America, but it's, [00:24:22] much easier to go [00:24:23] into, [00:24:24] architects and custom [00:24:25] home builders, [00:24:26] just have it designed in from [00:24:27] the start. We [00:24:28] can go back in and [00:24:29] retrofit homes, [00:24:30] homes that are in [00:24:31] a fire-prone [00:24:32] region they... I want to [00:24:33] add in this [00:24:34] Citrisafe system to [00:24:35] help protect my home, [00:24:36] to reduce [00:24:37] my insurance rate, [00:24:38] to make [00:24:39] my home [00:24:40] insurable, that I got [00:24:41] uninsured.

[00:24:42] or say [00:24:43] you're, the insurance [00:24:44] of last resort. [00:24:45] In California, they'll [00:24:46] only insure up to [00:24:47] $3 million.

Edward: [00:24:48] Ühüm.

Wes: like a [00:24:49] lot, but there are [00:24:50] many areas along [00:24:51] coastal California [00:24:52] that are [00:24:53] much more than $3 [00:24:54] million for a home. [00:24:55] And so if [00:24:56] you have to [00:24:57] self-insure [00:24:58] or, you have [00:24:59] assets that are at [00:25:00] wineries or [00:25:01] other places, it's a [00:25:02] natural fit [00:25:03] for Citrisafe system [00:25:04] to come in.

[00:25:05] But I think we want [00:25:06] to move it further and [00:25:07] further upstream [00:25:08] because in the end, it's almost [00:25:09] like a plumbing [00:25:10] job. It's [00:25:11] piping, a pump, a [00:25:12] sprinkler [00:25:13] system, and [00:25:14] then a breakthrough [00:25:15] product. I think [00:25:16] the brains, the [00:25:17] control system [00:25:18] will become [00:25:19] the really important [00:25:20] part that [00:25:21] insurers say, [00:25:22] "Hey, we want [00:25:23] to be able to [00:25:24] deploy this even if [00:25:25] the homeowner isn't [00:25:26] home, even [00:25:27] if, you don't know the [00:25:28] fire is [00:25:29] approaching."

we could actually [00:25:30] have, uh, [00:25:31] detection systems, say [00:25:32] cameras [00:25:33] or other, other [00:25:34] things. You don't want it where the [00:25:35] fire is actually [00:25:36] the activating [00:25:37] factor. You want it [00:25:38] as far away as [00:25:39] possible. You could [00:25:40] activate a system, [00:25:41] and that's where, [00:25:42] uh, Citritech is [00:25:43] working on the control [00:25:44] system or the brains [00:25:45] that says, how [00:25:46] could we help protect [00:25:47] those homes and those [00:25:48] homeowners, with [00:25:49] the best [00:25:50] approach, for what's [00:25:51] installed?

Edward: . [00:25:52] So let's move [00:25:53] on, talk about the, real [00:25:54] estate and the [00:25:55] insurance angle. [00:25:56] DR [00:25:57] Horton, KB Homes, and [00:25:58] R, you know, some of the [00:25:59] largest home builders in [00:26:00] the country, , what does [00:26:01] it take to get a [00:26:02] product like this into a [00:26:03] new development [00:26:04] standard [00:26:05] specification?

Wes: [00:26:06] Yeah, I th- I think [00:26:07] what it takes, w- first [00:26:08] it's always gonna be if it's [00:26:09] ever code [00:26:10] compliant, they're gonna be [00:26:11] looking for the best [00:26:12] and most affordable [00:26:13] solution, to [00:26:14] bring into those new [00:26:15] developments. and that's [00:26:16] happening. It's happening [00:26:17] in Colorado, it's happening [00:26:18] in [00:26:19] California. I'm even hearing [00:26:20] about, homes [00:26:21] in, like, [00:26:22] Gatlinburg, in the Smoky [00:26:23] Mountains.

So it's not [00:26:24] just West Coast, , [00:26:25] it's homes being built [00:26:26] where [00:26:27] if there were a [00:26:28] fire, you might [00:26:29] not be able to protect those [00:26:30] homes anymore, [00:26:31] and you want a new [00:26:32] development in that [00:26:33] region. so I think [00:26:34] it's got the [00:26:35] attention of the largest [00:26:36] home builders, and [00:26:37] then I think it will start [00:26:38] with code. It will move [00:26:39] towards, like I [00:26:40] talked about [00:26:41] jokingly, a, a [00:26:42] marketing feature [00:26:43] of our [00:26:44] homes are built better, [00:26:45] more resilient.

[00:26:46] and I think [00:26:47] that, that does have a [00:26:48] point. And homeowners [00:26:49] [00:26:50] may start to choose that [00:26:51] because [00:26:52] once they buy [00:26:53] that brand-new home, [00:26:54] they're gonna want it [00:26:55] insured, and [00:26:56] they know that there's, [00:26:57] either a [00:26:58] premium reduction [00:26:59] or, uh, [00:27:00] just the ability to get [00:27:01] those... I mean, if, [00:27:02] if [00:27:03] KB Lenar, Meritage is [00:27:04] gonna build, DR [00:27:05] Horton's gonna build a new [00:27:06] community, they wanna make sure every [00:27:07] single home in there [00:27:08] is quickly purchased, [00:27:09] insured, and [00:27:10] sold.

it all comes [00:27:11] together in that, [00:27:12] package

Edward: [00:27:13] so you're operating [00:27:14] primarily across [00:27:15] California, [00:27:16] Colorado, Montana, and [00:27:17] Idaho. [00:27:18] what does a fire [00:27:19] risk landscape [00:27:20] look [00:27:21] differently [00:27:22] across those markets [00:27:23] from a, a real [00:27:24] estate and insurance [00:27:25] perspective? [00:27:26] Have [00:27:27] more fires equal [00:27:28] more interest [00:27:29] from, like, [00:27:30] local governments [00:27:31] to update their [00:27:32] codes or to look [00:27:33] for innovative [00:27:34] solutions like Citrotech?[00:27:35]

Wes: Yeah, [00:27:36] that's what we're finding. The [00:27:37] Western United [00:27:38] States, the Western [00:27:39] states, I mean, even the [00:27:40] Western fire chiefs [00:27:41] come together to work [00:27:42] together [00:27:43] in, in one [00:27:44] solution. I think [00:27:45] our fire risk [00:27:46] moves a little bit [00:27:47] from [00:27:48] Arizona, New [00:27:49] Mexico. as the snow [00:27:50] melts, you'll have, the [00:27:51] big fires in [00:27:52] Montana, [00:27:53] Canada, [00:27:54] Idaho, and then maybe shifts [00:27:55] back down later [00:27:56] season to Southern [00:27:57] California, the Santa Ana [00:27:58] winds and the dryness.[00:27:59]

So we move up and [00:28:00] down across the West [00:28:01] Coast to [00:28:02] be able to, [00:28:03] see where are we in [00:28:04] drought season. [00:28:05] Honestly, you can [00:28:06] measure fire [00:28:07] risk on [00:28:08] dry vegetation. [00:28:09] [00:28:10] What if someone [00:28:11] had a catalytic [00:28:12] converter shoot out some [00:28:13] hot metal, or a [00:28:14] chain dragging, or a [00:28:15] cigarette come out of [00:28:16] that car on that [00:28:17] roadside?

Is [00:28:18] that gonna start a major [00:28:19] fire? [00:28:20] Fire season is 12 [00:28:21] months a year though. you [00:28:22] remember, the Palisades [00:28:23] fire started, at the [00:28:24] beginning of the year. I [00:28:25] you know, so [00:28:26] January isn't [00:28:27] out of the question for [00:28:28] fire season [00:28:29] anymore. what we've [00:28:30] fallen into [00:28:31] is, the [00:28:32] insurance [00:28:33] companies are sometimes [00:28:34] moving out of states, [00:28:35] and it's not just [00:28:36] California.

I'm [00:28:37] hearing about a [00:28:38] major insurer that just [00:28:39] moved out of [00:28:40] Colorado because [00:28:41] of all of the [00:28:42] fire risk, that [00:28:43] is existing there. [00:28:44] So [00:28:45] hurricane risk, we've always [00:28:46] known how to assess on the [00:28:47] coast. I think [00:28:48] fire risk is [00:28:49] something that it, [00:28:50] isn't in one [00:28:51] area. It's all across [00:28:52] the Western United [00:28:53] States.

Edward: [00:28:54] Fascinating, , and [00:28:55] terrifying at the same [00:28:56] time. but [00:28:57] thankful [00:28:58] for, [00:28:59] CitraTech and innovators out [00:29:00] there tackling this. [00:29:01] So let's [00:29:02] talk about [00:29:03] materials. mass [00:29:04] timber and [00:29:05] [00:29:06] cross-laminated timber, also [00:29:07] known as CLT, [00:29:08] these materials have [00:29:09] been popular in [00:29:10] Europe [00:29:11] for not only homes, [00:29:12] but for [00:29:13] buildings.

however, in the [00:29:14] US, we've been [00:29:15] a little more [00:29:16] skeptical, [00:29:17] or we've, [00:29:18] haven't [00:29:19] updated [00:29:20] our, codes yet [00:29:21] to understand [00:29:22] that these [00:29:23] materials can be [00:29:24] safe as well. and [00:29:25] now they're finally [00:29:26] growing fast as a [00:29:27] sustainable building [00:29:28] material. So [00:29:29] how does fire [00:29:30] retardancy change the [00:29:31] risk calculus for [00:29:32] developers [00:29:33] choosing, mass [00:29:34] timber or [00:29:35] cross-laminated [00:29:36] timber?

Wes: I think [00:29:37] CitraTech is, becomes [00:29:38] a, a critical [00:29:39] piece of one of the [00:29:40] biggest risks of using [00:29:41] mass [00:29:42] timber, [00:29:43] CLT, [00:29:44] glulam, all the [00:29:45] different things, even [00:29:46] getting into [00:29:47] I-joists and how we [00:29:48] build and what we do. [00:29:49] I think, uh, [00:29:50] CitraTech [00:29:51] the, [00:29:52] [00:29:53] manufacturing of that [00:29:54] does two things.

One is [00:29:55] the fire [00:29:56] retardancy, but [00:29:57] two, something that you and I haven't [00:29:58] talked about yet, [00:29:59] is, UL [00:30:00] GREENGUARD Gold. [00:30:01] Underwriters Laboratory [00:30:02] has a thing for smoke [00:30:03] and vapors. there [00:30:04] actually are [00:30:05] more, [00:30:06] losses of life [00:30:07] that come from [00:30:08] smoke and the [00:30:09] vapors and the toxic [00:30:10] vapors in multi-family [00:30:11] housing commercial [00:30:12] properties.

It's one [00:30:13] of the reasons [00:30:14] why, we have to [00:30:15] have, the mandated code [00:30:16] compliant [00:30:17] things. But second [00:30:18] is really [00:30:19] about, [00:30:20] GREENGUARD Gold [00:30:21] from Underwriters [00:30:22] Laboratory is, the [00:30:23] smoke and, uh, it's [00:30:24] so low [00:30:25] that it's, it's less [00:30:26] toxic. I think [00:30:27] as you start to [00:30:28] treat [00:30:29] CLT and mass [00:30:30] timber and glulam [00:30:31] and all these other things [00:30:32] and you have [00:30:33] less [00:30:34] vapors, less toxins [00:30:35] coming off in the [00:30:36] presence of heat or [00:30:37] fire, that [00:30:38] is going to be a, [00:30:39] a major [00:30:40] secondary [00:30:41] benefit in, [00:30:42] structurally [00:30:43] keeping the building up, [00:30:44] but [00:30:45] also [00:30:46] reducing the [00:30:47] probability of the loss of [00:30:48] life, uh, which is [00:30:49] always number [00:30:50] one in [00:30:51] building

Edward: For those [00:30:52] who aren't familiar with the [00:30:53] UL, they are [00:30:54] the [00:30:55] Underwriters Laboratories [00:30:56] who are, [00:30:57] correct me if I'm wrong, [00:30:58] Wes, but they're an [00:30:59] independent, [00:31:00] US-based [00:31:01] testing, labs [00:31:02] that make sure that [00:31:03] all of our devices [00:31:04] and all of our materials [00:31:05] in, in [00:31:06] buildings and [00:31:07] everywhere else [00:31:08] are up to code and [00:31:09] safe

Wes: [00:31:10] Correct. And then they can, [00:31:11] they give different levels [00:31:12] of safety, and gold [00:31:13] is as good as [00:31:14] you can get. [00:31:15] Underwriter Laboratory [00:31:16] Greenguard Gold, is what [00:31:17] CitraTech [00:31:18] is, as well [00:31:19] as, all the other code [00:31:20] compliant that we [00:31:21] use in the [00:31:22] US. sometimes as you [00:31:23] say, we may be catching up [00:31:24] to Europe in some [00:31:25] things, but, uh, [00:31:26] [00:31:27] ASTM is our other [00:31:28] standards, that [00:31:29] we deploy for [00:31:30] ASTM, [00:31:31] uh, levels of fire [00:31:32] retardancy, that we [00:31:33] have extended, [00:31:34] E84 [00:31:35] extended or [00:31:36] other, other things.[00:31:37]

That's where CitraTech [00:31:38] is always working to be [00:31:39] at the, at the highest [00:31:40] levels, of [00:31:41] efficacy [00:31:42] and, safety

Edward: [00:31:43] What does a [00:31:44] self-insured [00:31:45] real estate company [00:31:46] or a REIT look [00:31:47] like on the other [00:31:48] side of [00:31:49] deploying CitraTech [00:31:50] across a portfolio, [00:31:51] say, in Western [00:31:52] Assets?

Wes: mean, [00:31:53] if you look at, [00:31:54] a REIT or even [00:31:55] timber assets,, that's one of the [00:31:56] greatest, [00:31:57] risks is [00:31:58] burning all that down. [00:31:59] I think what we're [00:32:00] bringing is Citritech is [00:32:01] going to bring a, [00:32:02] a way [00:32:03] to [00:32:04] spray out, [00:32:05] and we even have [00:32:06] relationships where you could [00:32:07] spray out 100, [00:32:08] 200 feet, [00:32:09] across that and make [00:32:10] a fire break [00:32:11] much faster than [00:32:12] you could...

Uh, you can't [00:32:13] run a bulldozer that [00:32:14] fast if you're a REIT [00:32:15] or, or something to [00:32:16] protect your [00:32:17] asset. and embers [00:32:18] are blowing sometimes [00:32:19] one and two miles [00:32:20] ahead. That [00:32:21] risk of your [00:32:22] asset, your large [00:32:23] asset, and [00:32:24] maybe 20 [00:32:25] years to [00:32:26] replace it if it [00:32:27] burns down, to [00:32:28] regrow that [00:32:29] asset is [00:32:30] a, a significant [00:32:31] risk. I could [00:32:32] see, what they would do is [00:32:33] have Citritech [00:32:34] on hand.

It's a [00:32:35] product that, [00:32:36] is, able to be [00:32:37] stored, uh, [00:32:38] ready to apply [00:32:39] within minutes, [00:32:40] and I think [00:32:41] what we will see [00:32:42] is [00:32:43] them [00:32:44] m- [00:32:45] mandating almost it [00:32:46] looks like a private [00:32:47] firefighting force [00:32:48] to protect, [00:32:49] that is, that [00:32:50] asset or [00:32:51] that major [00:32:52] area. it's not [00:32:53] just a [00:32:54] home. Now we [00:32:55] move to, [00:32:56] hundreds or thousands [00:32:57] of acres that are [00:32:58] needing to be [00:32:59] protected.[00:33:00]

Uh, and I see [00:33:01] Citritech playing a role in, [00:33:02] in being there [00:33:03] and being ready to [00:33:04] deploy, [00:33:05] and probably even [00:33:06] bringing some of the service [00:33:07] aspects [00:33:08] to being [00:33:09] able to protect those [00:33:10] assets. So it'd be the [00:33:11] product and the [00:33:12] service, that, through our [00:33:13] partnerships we would [00:33:14] bring.

Edward: That [00:33:15] sounds [00:33:16] like great news [00:33:17] for [00:33:18] the real estate [00:33:19] companies and [00:33:20] also shareholders. [00:33:21] Uh, but don't, [00:33:22] don't take this as [00:33:23] financial [00:33:24] advice. [00:33:25] Wes, [00:33:26] collaboration [00:33:27] superpower. If you [00:33:28] could partner with one [00:33:29] person, [00:33:30] historic or [00:33:31] living, real or [00:33:32] fictional, who [00:33:33] would it be?

Wes: [00:33:34] Oh, man. you know, I was thinking [00:33:35] about this. a [00:33:36] carpenter. Jesus was a [00:33:37] carpenter. [00:33:38] He's, he knew [00:33:39] fire better than [00:33:40] anybody, So hey, [00:33:41] there's my first [00:33:42] answer. and then my [00:33:43] second one was gonna [00:33:44] be, I think Elon [00:33:45] Musk and I share a [00:33:46] passion, [00:33:47] interestingly, for the same things, [00:33:48] which is [00:33:49] getting breakthrough [00:33:50] technology into the world, [00:33:51] and I think, uh, [00:33:52] he and I'd actually do [00:33:53] pretty well together.[00:33:54]

So there's [00:33:55] my, two answers[00:33:56]

Edward: Jesus and [00:33:57] Elon. [00:33:58] Um, I [00:33:59] mean, that's a [00:34:00] duo that, uh, [00:34:01] you, we haven't seen yet [00:34:02] and, uh, Citrotech, [00:34:03] could make it [00:34:04] happen.

[00:34:05] Wes, where can [00:34:06] Tangent listeners [00:34:07] and real estate [00:34:08] developers, [00:34:09] builders, [00:34:10] and [00:34:11] civic officials, [00:34:12] learn more about [00:34:13] CitraTech and [00:34:14] connect with you?[00:34:15]

Wes: Yeah, I think [00:34:16] citrotech is [00:34:17] a great, place to [00:34:18] find it. We're a public [00:34:19] company, so we [00:34:20] have to put out lots of [00:34:21] information, [00:34:22] about us. So through [00:34:23] our, uh, citrotech [00:34:24] and our investor [00:34:25] relations, you'll hear a [00:34:26] lot about, uh, the [00:34:27] partnerships we're forming [00:34:28] and how we're getting into the [00:34:29] world

Edward: [00:34:30] wes, [00:34:31] thanks so much for [00:34:32] coming to Tangent today[00:34:33]

Wes: [00:34:34] Thank you for having me

Edward: [00:34:35] [00:34:36] [00:34:37] [00:34:38] [00:34:39] Muchas [00:34:40] gracias. [00:34:41] If you learn something [00:34:42] new or enjoy the [00:34:43] conversation. [00:34:44] Text a friend the [00:34:45] link to this episode [00:34:46] right now.

[00:34:47] [00:34:48] You can find [00:34:49] links, resources, and [00:34:50] ways to connect with [00:34:51] us in the show [00:34:52] notes [00:34:53] [00:34:54] [00:34:55]