Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Welcome to Marnie Merrilees, Psychologist PODCAST. Where we discuss psychology and psychological skills for high performance and everyday life.
I am Marnie, a Psychologist specialising in High Performance and Mental Wellbeing, with over 20 years experience. I am passionate about empowering others to be the best version of themselves and achieve optimum performance. This PODCAST discusses psychology and science-based psychological tools, including how our brain and its interconnections with our body controls our thoughts, feelings and behaviours which ultimately impacts our performance in any given discipline.
Marnie Merrilees | High Performance Psychologist
📈 High Performance Psychologist
🧠 Specialist in Optimising Mindset
🚀 Reach your Optimal Performance
🌏 Online 1:1 Coaching Packages
🎙️ Podcast
WhatsApp: (+44) 7915171119
linkedin.com/in/marniemerrilees
https://www.youtube.com/@MarnieMerrilees
instagram.com/marniemerrilees
facebook.com/MarnieMerrileesPsychologist
twitter.com/MarnieMerrilees
tiktok.com/@marniemerrilees
threads.net/@marniemerrilees
I am Marnie Merriles and I'm a
psychologist
specialising in high performance.
My guest today is Mick Turrell. Mick
Turrell is the world champion in
heavyweight bare knuckle
boxing. In today's podcast we are going
to be discussing
mental toughness and what it
takes to be a world champion. Mick shares
with us why he eats
cherry pie before a big
fight and the importance of accepting
worst case scenario as part
of his mental preparation.
Mick reveals how he copes with injury and
setbacks and describes
in detail his physical
and mental preparation. It's a discussion
that I'm sure everyone, whether you're a
fan of bare knuckle boxing or not, will
find interesting and
informative, especially with
regards to the mental preparation leading
up to a fight and the dedication and hard
work required to become a world champion.
Before we begin I'd like to emphasise the
reason for this podcast is my passion in
performance psychology and
the sharing of information with
the general public about the benefit of
performance psychology and
performance psychology tools.
Mick Turrell is the current world
champion heavyweight bare
knuckle boxer. Mick faced
Arnold Adams in the rematch for the
vacant BKFC heavyweight
championship on December
the 2nd, 2023 at BKFC 56. He won by
fourth round knockout and
became the new world champion
heavyweight bare knuckle boxer. Mick's
professional bare knuckle
record shows in 10 matches he
had nine wins and one loss. In his
personal life Mick lives
in North Shields, England
and is married to Carmen Turrell and is
father of three children
and is soon to become a
grandad. So Mick you've got an important
fight coming up in a
couple of weeks time. Do you
want to tell those listening and watching
about it? Yeah well I'll be fighting over
in LA, downtown LA. It's against Lorenzo
Hunt. He's a two way
champion, middleweight
cruiserweight. He's coming up to
heavyweight. He's very good, very
explosive. Obviously
he's wanted to take the title off me and
he's hoping to be the
three times champion. So
it'll be a hard fight I think I'll be
overcoming. So how did you
get into bare knuckle boxing?
It was an accident really. Obviously I
was a kickboxer and a
tieboxer originally. There
was a person called Cowboys Michael
Quinn, an Irish fella. I
don't know if you've seen
the documentary on what's it called?
Netflix. Anyways it's
called Knuckle. There's a family
called Quinn McDonald's. So in any ways
he's one of them,
Michael Cowboys Quinn. So he
was looking for an opponent because his
opponent had pulled out and
I took a fight on a week's
notice and that's how I got in.
Interesting I didn't know
that. It was a hard fight. He
dropped us in the first round. I still
can't remember the whole
fight but he dropped us.
I got up and I ended up beating him. Oh
wow well done. I can't
remember it. I still can't
remember it now. So how did you get to
the level that you are
now? Like world champion?
I was already fighting at quite a high
level and anyways in
the kickboxing I've always
just been disciplined with my training.
So like I train
non-stop. Like I'm 40 now. I'm
still training like four or five hours a
day. Just that's my
hobby and if it's your hobby
I just kept on going and kept going.
Obviously I don't drink,
don't smoke, don't take drugs.
So I just prevailed through. So like
there's a lot of younger
lads younger than me that
I don't retire and my body's able to keep
going. So what would you
say your strengths are?
I've got good determination, good stamina
and I like fighting. I think that's it.
Yeah it's a key thing isn't it when you
enjoy something that you do?
It's a funny thing you know because you
know when you're in
the gym I hate training.
Like you know there's a treadmill there
for like honestly I'm
contemplating life every
day when I go on the treadmill but I run
every day regardless and I
honestly hate running. But
I know I've got to do that for the fight
and I love fighting.
If I could take a magic
pill and get really fit I would take a
magic pill. Unfortunately I cannot so I
would have spent hours
and hours and hours just for them 10
minutes. So what are some of the high
points of your career?
Obviously when you're winning it's great
there's no better feeling
when you're going to fight.
You're out there and you're fighting
another individual equally
trained. So when you do win
it's a great accomplishment especially
when you're winning. World
titles have won lots of world
titles but like that last one was Smick
Special it's a big production.
It's a big show. I've already
won three world titles in bare knuckle
but that one was bigger you
know it was better. It was on
a massive stage and it was in America
against an American. So like I've
actually traveled over there
to do it you know so it's euphoric really
and now you get the win. Mind you
straight after I had
to go in the shower I'd just gotten 42
stitches so like my face is sore. So
you're over the moon
put your soul as well you know but it's a
great feeling. Yeah
double-edged sword. It hurts. It's
a painful game. I saw the interview you
did afterwards your
face was yeah. Yeah it was.
But if I'd have lost I would have been
worse you know. Luckily I won
you know so you've got a little
smile on your face and anyways.
Definitely. So we've just talked about
some of the high points of your
career. So what have been some of the low
points of your career? Any fight I'll
tell you this. Your low
point is when you get beat because it's
your fault. You've been beat and
someone's better than you.
So it's um it's the worst feeling. You
come back and it's it's funny because
people only it doesn't
matter how many wins. I've had 80 fights.
I think I've lost nine. All
that got out 80. People only
remember your losses. So you could win
anything in the world again.
I remember when I knocked out.
So that's all you get off people you
know. So it's um and then people like to
keep reminding you of it.
My brother's the worst. If you've got
brothers and you've been beat your
brother will let you know
you've been beat. But um that's the thing
and when you're down and
like it's almost suicidal.
You've been beat. You're gutted. You're
devastated and like I say
when you're on the winning side
everyone's congratulating you. Everyone's
like oh well done and then
when you're on the losing
side nobody wants to know you. It's it's
a horrible feeling.
Yeah that must feel like a
pretty dark place in comparison to the
glory that you feel when
you're winning. It's honestly it's
it's it's a downer. It's like it takes a
strong mind to come back
and actually still want to do
it. I know some people they'll have a
great record get beat and they'll never
want to fight again.
But yeah I mean when I lost that one that
first one with Adams I was
actually quite ill when I
fought. I shouldn't have fought really
but I didn't anyways and I
got beat and I remember lying in
my bed. My train Andy was in the next bed
because we were over in
America. I said that's it I'm done.
I'm not doing it anymore and then you lie
in bed you soak and you're
in a little huff for yourself
and then your body's wanting to do
something. So like you're
lying and you think I want to get
back up and down so once you get back in
the gym and you're around all your
friends again you're
like no actually I want to go back out
again. Some people never get back in the
gym so if you've ever
had a fight and you've been beat I'll
tell everyone to get back in the gym as
soon as you can because
the people will bring you back up. Yeah
so that's a good demonstration of
resilience right there
isn't it? We're going to talk about that
a lot more as we go
through today's discussion. But
resilience definitely is key because like
you say too many people
just sort of give up because
they've had a setback but if they push on
through that then success in world
championship can be on
the other side of it. It's a double-edged
sword because the
feeling of winning is great but
the feeling of losing it's the worst.
Yeah opposite ends of the spectrum. And
you feel both you know
I mean if you're fighting someone equally
as skilled as you it
can go either way so it's
yeah they're winning or you're losing and
there's no real other
outcome in the fight.
Okay thank you. So what do you recall as
the most important
events in your boxing career?
So events that have influenced you a
great deal? Obviously
winning the BKFC was massive for us
that's a huge organisation. When I won
the trials for the combat I had to go
down to Middlesbrough
it was Gary Bell's gym actually, Contenla
gym. So I went down
there's loads of people that come
from all over the country. I've done some
trials and there's a lab
called Rustam I think I had no
part in sparring them. I knocked them
open one day and I went and got the
trellis. I think that's
how I kind of pulled this so I was
fighting all over Europe at the time.
That was a big moment for us then.
Yeah significant. So has anything
important happened to you
recently in your general life?
My son's having a kid. That was a shock.
Coming on Christmas day in
Toula took us about two weeks to
to let it settle in. We're obviously over
the moon now. He's been
with his age girlfriend
quite a while little Maddy. He's changed
a mint loss as well you
know. So I've got to get that
coming. I've got a flat that I'm busy
doing up for them so get them
in the flat and then make sure
they're comfortable you know and then
I've got my other son. He's got a
girlfriend she's going to be
moving in hours now. So replace one son
with a daughter-in-law you
know. So you've got a very
busy family life and a baby on the way so
that'll be great. You know
it is family's good you know
like family so it's funny now though
because the kids are
different when we were younger.
When we were younger you were talking to
your parents all to get
off my kids now is what's for
tea you know. It doesn't matter what
happens you come down
what's for tea. When's tea ready?
Is there any toilet roll? My kids shake
for fun you know so
they're just going through a
bog roll like you never know what. I
can't remember. Yeah my
son was that's pretty much
he liked what he was like. He always just
want what's for tea and
then I go and hide in their
bedroom and you don't see them. But my
dear you play it out. Now if you tell
your kid to play out
it's a punishment. You want to be in on
the computers you know
it's crazy. So what were
goals when you first started your sport?
Nothing I had no goals.
I used to play football
and I was actually I had done a rewire
for a lad called Graham
Kelso. He had a flat two rows up
from mine and he was a boxer and as I was
talking to him he says you
should give it a go and he
took us up to Barry Norman's gym and
that's where me boxing career
started and to be fair I just
went for fitness and to learn something
and then it was strange
because I thought I'd done something
wrong and Barry used to take us off the
one side and I had to just
kick the bag. So I would do 200
kicks a leg and I was thinking at the
time I've done something
wrong and say everybody else is
doing that. I think what it was I kicked
hard and his daughter
Vicki just take him over there
he can kick hard make sure he kicks and
then within a year he gives a fight and I
end up getting a fight
but I end up having to lose a lot of
weight for that fight and
I went in the Barry's gym
running about 60 and off 70 in stone and
Barry got us a fight of 30
in stone. So I looked like
Freddie Mercury when he was dying of
AIDS. Well that's quite a significant
weight loss isn't it?
It was I was back in the day I used to
have four chicken breasts in
a day one of them I would have
I used to eat broccoli roll and he's over
there trying to get only the
broccoli roll once he didn't
enjoy it so I'd have chicken breasts with
a bit of broccoli and then
when I was going to the gym
on the night time I'd have a small sweet
potato and that's what I had every day
and then for a treat
I used to cut up carrots and leave them
in water because carrots are
quite sweet and I used to eat
a carrot before the gym and that was me
treat. That's discipline for you isn't
it? It was horrible.
So what are your present goals? Present
goals it's 40 and I'm 40 now 41 shortly
just want to keep winning people say how
long you got left and I says
well till your body gives up
at the minute I'm still beating
everybody's sparring and stuff so I think
once you start getting
beating your own gym it's time to you
know like you you're coming
to the end but at the minute
I'm doing fine just got to keep keep
training keep faith make
sure I'm getting injuries. Yeah
so keep going the way you're going keep
going at it yeah so who
have been the most significant
people would you say in your sports
sports participation? I
always like the thank-you
from Kiltso. He got us into it. Andy's
been good, Bas is over there as well he's
good you know because
we used to run my own gym obviously the
Covid and stuff kicked in
so we'll end up shooting Neil
downstairs he's got this gym the O2's gym
Richie as well he owns it
as well great advice off all
of them you know so like it doesn't
matter what you've got wrong there's
always somebody in the
gym and gee a little bit of advice you
know so all great
supporting roles for us. So what role
did these people play in your development
obviously you've
mentioned a little bit about
green council introducing you to boxing
anything else that you can say? Oh Creme.
About all the people that you've just
mentioned about how they help support you
in your development?
Obviously you've got Andy and I've got
Andy and Bas like I said
we run the gym together and
I've known Andy a lot of years from Barry
Norman's days so we're
clicking on he's like my best
pal as well as my trainer so I've been
away with Andy loads of
times never had an argument never
had a crossword I mean people can't be
like a married couple who are
bigger like a married couple
but I know what he's thinking he knows
what I'm thinking if I say
right we're gonna do this he'll
come up with us and say I think you're
right but maybe try this
so we'll work well together
Bas is a great technician in boxing so he
can give you good advice on
what you're doing as well.
Yeah because communication is key isn't
it to understanding each
other to understand what you
need to do and it sounds like you've got
a really good relationship there with
people. The best thing
about this gym is the banter and I think
everybody needs it you know
if you go to a gym there's no
banter there's no atmosphere in this gym
everyone rips the piss out
everyone nobody's nobody's
gets out of it it's like you're in there
you get do something wrong
and that's it you get griefed
out I mean we've got a group chart I
think my name in the
group chart's called tits now
they say I've got fat tits so that's my
name of the group chart but
um that's the way we are you
know everything's a piss take everything
and I think it makes you
know when you come to the gym
the gym's hard you know it's horrible but
you know when you've got
people ripping the piss out
of you all the time it keeps you going
you know I take a laugh.
Yeah so it's boys banter as well
isn't it it's not just the place where
you train and work hard you have a fun
together with people
who support. I took my last card at the
playground. So how satisfied it sounds
like you are happy with
the support that you get from those
around you so in terms of family friends
and coaches do you have
a very good it sounds like you have a
very good support network. I
do obviously like a lot of it's
back home as well you know my wife is
absolutely sounding awesome
like a lot of if you're a lot of
people you know come to the gym the
wife's giving it that you're
kind of sick you're doing this
you're at the gym too much my wife is
just basically go on do
what you've got to do and then
when I go back I mean she tells us off
I'm on my phone a lot
limited but when I go back I try to
give good quality family time as well you
know. Yeah and um your wife
puts up with a lot of stick
and banter from you I know from your
Facebook posts it's um it's
very comical and it's a lovely
interaction that you have together. It's
funny you know because they
are weighing her up non-stop
you know because you know what it's just
my best pal as well as my
wife you know but like she keeps
saying to me that this is my wife people
keep asking me wife what
you're still doing with me
is your mental and she remains as
everyday you know people keep
asking as a mom mental it'd be
with you but she is mental and she is
with us you know so we get
on. You make a good team.
I honestly it's like my Polly and us as
well as my wife you know so it's just so
so you have a very good support network
around you so how important is that
during challenging times?
Um well you know it is like my wife can
have a laugh as well but
my wife can just say you've
been a knob, put it in you know what I
mean she's I listen to what she says
you've got to you know
it's your wife you're getting ET you know
what I mean so if I come
in my wife says you're doing
this wrong you're doing that wrong I've
got to listen because I
want me dinner later running so
she's got to turn this off. Good someone
needs to keep me in line I guess. So
you've just mentioned
about food so that brings us on to
lifestyle choices so how do your
lifestyle choices such as
exercise, diet, sleep, alcohol contribute
to overall performance
and I know you don't drink.
Yeah well I drink twice a year. I drink
on a Christmas and on my
birthday my birth is in June.
At the minute I'm heavy weight so back in
the days when I was on
the chicken and broccoli
now I can't sneak in a couple of cakes
you know but on this fight
I've lost 20 pounds for this
fight from the the last one so I've tried
to keep it quite clean and
healthy I'm drinking a lot more
water like that's the kalayana pop don't
you know like fizzy pop
it's a kalab blow to you it's
horrible but it's addictive I think if
you drink a lot of fizzy pop
and you're not getting it you
want it but um I like eating a lot of red
meat as well I think red
meat's great for your training
and it people say the red meat puts a
weight on you what happens is
it takes a day in the hall for
your red meat to digest so if you're
eating red meat every day every half a
day you're putting on
more weight so that's why people have
white meat but it's bland in it I like
red meat I like steak
so I'll try and eat red meat three or
four times a week and I'll try and eat
white meat two to three times a week and
then I'll have a
takeaway as well at some point
but that's the heavy weight life isn't it
so yeah so do you find heavy
weight life in terms of eating
a lot easier than it's much it's much
easier you know you know when you're
training hard but you're
starving it's horrible when you're
training hard but you can go home and
have an indian's later on
who cares
yeah so um I have heard somewhere that
you do like cakes I do like
cakes yeah yeah so being heavy
weight you can eat cakes after matches
you know it is I always have
a cherry pie before a fight
and I'm famous for that really from the
northeast but it's um it's
the jam it's sugar so if you're
all gonna have a fight and you leave the
crust you know like I like
cherry pies you know so like
you're getting from morrisons tesco's
places they aren't there a quid so I used
to get a full cherry
pie but it's the jam you have to have and
what it is it's the sugar so
if I can't get a cherry pie
wherever I'm at I'll get like a pack of
jelly babies or star mix
you know a parabola star mix
just get some sugar in you and because
you're gonna bleed in your
fight so if you're fighting
and you're losing blood you're losing
that glycemic sugar so if
you've got that little bit of sugar
back in you'll be alright some good tips
there eat sweets so in
terms of sleep um do you want
to just share with me like your sleep
schedule it's sleep schedule
is hard at the minute because
usually I'll go to bed around about half
nine and like I'll get up
with like six in the morning
I'll put it in a minute because um LA is
that four behind us
it's eight hours behind
I've now had to try to practice staying
awake later because when
I fight it'll be like six
five six in the morning so I need to try
and get my body being awake
at five six in the morning
usually I'm getting up at that time so
that's a hard bit so
like my wife will go to bed
and I'll try and sit in the front room
and try and watch the telly
quietly so I don't wake the
family up and then you just sit there
bullshit this really it's
you sit there all night so I
think sometimes I think I'll go for a run
later night but in the
winter I'd suffer a good going
for a run later night yeah it's a bit
cold here isn't it all right luckily
Richie used to open the
gym up for us at four in the morning so I
would stop up all night
then Richie me and Richie would
come and get on the treadmills together
four in the morning that's good teamwork
Richie's a fit lad he's one of the
corners of the gym he's a fit lad as well
you know so he's faster
than me so we're on the treadmill and
like I'll run a 40 and a half 15
kilometers an hour Richie's
run at 16 to 17 so and he's about my size
and I he's fit he's
really fit him so in terms of
you've mentioned a little bit about
training about lifestyle so can you
discuss the importance of
the balance between training intensity
and rest I used to rest once
a day sorry once a week and
I think as I was getting older I tried to
I wanted to rest twice a week
but like I was meant to rest
yes enough I got it's just in your brain
like I've got to go to
the gym I'm going to the gym
I'm going to the gym you're just
forgetting Annalie what I try and do now
is I have an active rest
so I'll come in the gym and I like today
I've done pads and I'll
only run but sometimes I try
and do pads run strength and conditioning
couple hours of weights
maybe come up trying to
shuttle stuff like that so today I'll
just do pads and run that's
an active rest for me I'll do
five kilometers 12 rounds of pads so do
you find it difficult to
have a total rest yeah it's um
when you're in there and your body's
wanting to go all the time so
if I'm if I am wrestling I'm
usually sat in the house my legs are
going I'm thinking what can
I do I need to do something
it's like it's hard you know you just you
you know you need the rest
but you think like I do this I
could do that but the problem is if
you're over training
that's when you injure so like
on the last fight actually ripped me off
three weeks before the
fight so I'd already done a five
kilometer run 12 rounds of pads strength
and conditioning in the
morning and then two hours
of weights on my chest and I was sat
there and I thought I'd do
something else here so I started
doing shuttle runs so what I'll do is
it's over there you run the first lane
run backwards second
line run backwards third line run
backwards I think I was on
probably fifth or sixth round
of doing it and I ripped me off so I was
three weeks out from the
fight I was like oh no I'm
gonna be not idea I've just strapped it
up and just tried to rest
this best I could really
it'll fight and luckily didn't affect us
that much yes you just
touched on injuries there
um so what injuries other than the one
you've just described have
you had in the past and how
has it impacted your training and
competitive performance I've had loads of
injuries um you look
me hands I've got a got a big lump in my
hand there broke that hand
got a plate and it snapped
the plate I put them out the plate and
then I snapped the screw
me bars I was actually I
fought um John Lewis there I've just
pulled it back in again
so now I snapped the plate
me bars when the changing room were
pulled it back so it was
sort of half in line I went to
the hospital they've x-rayed it he says
I've done an alright job
of it so he was just kind of
leaving it like you know so broke that
one I keep breaking the it's punching
wrong you know I should
punch them too broke them but I broke
that I've got a lump on
there broke that one snap
told me it band um break me jaw nearly
every fight um so it's just
one of them you're getting
punched in the face of a 19 stone monitor
it hurts you know so
it's funny you've got to get
your mindset into the fight so like I'm
usually two or three weeks
before I start getting nervous
like on that last fight we went to a
fight show pkfc in Leeds
I'll come up the show and
won the lads he had a hematoma and he
said about that big it was
massive and I'm looking at him
thinking that's me next week you know
what I mean so like I usually what I do
is I sit in the house
and I think I'm gonna break me jaw I'm
gonna break me hand I'm
gonna get cut to bits and then
you just sort of sit there and you
visualize it's gonna happen it's gonna
happen and like I'm a
realist if I go outside and it's raining
I'm gonna get wet if I
play a box I'm gonna break
me jaw I'm gonna get stitches I'm gonna
break me hand so once you
come to terms with it once you
get into the fight it takes all the
nerves away you're like I
know it's gonna happen and if it
doesn't happen it's a bonus yeah that's
one good way of looking at
it I guess isn't it so how do
you manage stress outside of the ring and
how does it impact your
performance in the ring because
obviously you've talked about how you
manage the stress of thinking that you're
going to get injured
how do you manage like day-to-day stress
I'm lucky I don't
really get that stressed
even with the you know you're saying it's
stress of the thing it's not just
accepting what's going
to happen it's not a stress I think once
you accept what's going to
happen to you it's easier
you know I think that's going to happen
and if it if something
better happens it's a bonus
yeah that's a good way of looking at it
rather than worrying about
what may or may not happen
you've accepted something will happen
along these lines look for the worst if
anything better happens
you're in so that brings on to talking
about the psychological side of the
boxing so how do you
prepare to face different opponents with
varying styles and
strategies yeah well like me and
Andy we'll go on like the last fight
there Arnold Arnold's my size he's like
he's got a longer reach
and a faster job and at the time um I'd
actually slipped four discs
uh last year January last year
so I've had a trap now running down my
arm and um which meant my arm was
inactive really I couldn't
lift it past there at one point so what
had say is on that fight I'm
gonna put a lot of weight on
I'm gonna take a lot of punishment so
that's what I'm saying you
visualize I'm gonna get punched a
lot because I can't throw my job as well
as I should so I put loads
of weight on and I knew if
I lint on him I would tire him so that
was the game plan lean on
him push him on the back foot
as best he can make him work as he gets
tired and then when he gets
tired punish him on this fight
to be honest I thought I was going to be
fighting Ben Rothwell he's a
bigger unit so I thought I'll
get lit lamb faster it turns out it's
Lorenzo Lorenzo small and
fast as well as himself so
we've been working on a lot of power
shots and I've lost weight I'm punching a
lot all I'm gonna have
that's good so you just have to adapt
your style and your training
regime to match the opponent
usually if you're fighting a big person
you want to be a little lamb
faster if you're fighting a
little fast person you want to be big and
heavy so I'm looking at I
usually fight on the back foot
and I was never a heavyweight so I was
always concerned about
going forward because I thought
am I punching hard enough and over the
past few fights I've
realized when I go forward I knock
people out so I think I've realized I can
knock you out so if I do
go on the front foot I'll be
all right if it goes bad for us I'm
better on the back foot
anyways. So your next fight is in LA
so you mentioned a little bit before
about preparing when
you're fighting in different
time zones so what how do you actually
prepare for a different time
zone? You stop up all night
that's the only thing you can do it's um
like I say normally I'll go
to bed at nine get up with
five or six now I've got to go to bed
like at the minute I'm trying to go to
bed three four in the
morning and then I get up later which
means I come to the gym
later and then eventually what
then happens I'll start going to bed at
like seven eight o'clock in
the morning which means I get
back in the gym for five six in the
morning get a suit you know
go to sleep during the day come
back in the evening so you're gonna end
up splitting your training
into two sessions because
you're gonna you want to train roughly
when you're fighting which is
going to be five or six in the
morning go back to sleep come back do
more training later in the
evening when you walk back up.
And when you go to LA um how much time
are you going to go before
the actual fight? Usually it's
about four to five days I think they give
you I mean the last time we
were in Salt Lake City and
we still hadn't gotten totally adjusted
at the time so what we'd
done is we sat in the pool
till 11 o'clock every night in the hotel
and I thought if I fall
asleep I drowned so I've got
to stay awake you know what I mean so
just sat in my pool all
night and then like my eyes were
stinging but I stayed awake till 12
o'clock you know like so by the time I
went back my room got
showered it was midnight so I thought I'm
ready for the fight I
didn't stay awake. Yeah so these
are all extra things that stress your
body aren't they and affect your training
regime but it sounds
like you cope with them really well. You
could have a plan I think
like I say I plan everything
so if I've planned it and that's the
worst thing that could happen anything
else is a bonus. Yeah
that's good so in when you went to Salt
Lake um you mentioned about altitude.
Yeah. So how did you
train for that? To be honest you know I
bought altitude masks and
everybody was saying they
don't really work and they don't so I
bought this mask I was training with a
mask on and basically
what it is it cuts off your hair and then
you get a little flap in it and you
adjust it to whatever
and then you get no oxygen and when you
get it there was nothing
to do with oxygen it's like
you're that high up what happened was
it'd be something to do
with oxygen but your body just
stops it stops working so we went
shopping it was higher up the game from
where we're stopping
and you feel faint so like your body
starts going limp and
faint and I don't know if it's
because I was bigger and heavier than the
lads are hard willers
I think I was feeling
the quicker so we went over there and
usually on the last week
you don't do any training
but we took pads off and I says I want to
do pads see what it's
like so we're hitting
pads and like I say the banter we've got
in the gym if you've got
any sort of injury we call it
softitis so I didn't want to say I'm
feeling this altitude so Arnie's doing
the pads and I can feel
like I'm getting tired quicker than
normally because I'm not getting the
oxygen through my body
so now is I'm hitting pads and I remember
Arnie started having a
few wrong combinations so he
might say double jab right hand and as
I'm trying to throw it he's on the left
hook so I was thinking
now what's going on he went are you
feeling this and I went are you feeling
it he went I'm feeling
that I said well if you're feeling I'm
feeling it because he's
admitted he's soft before me
you know what I mean so that's the sort
of banter I have yeah so did you feel
like it slowed you down
yeah because it's horrible that you don't
realize until you start
exerting your body so like let's
say you run up the stairs I don't know
did you ever get covered
yeah felt like covered you know
you try to run up the stairs and your
body fatigues that's what I felt like it
just felt like you just
zapped energy so we just talked a little
bit about preparation and
how you prepare for a fight
so how do you prepare yourself mentally
for a big fight so like
what and what are your thoughts
and feelings that are going on I think to
prepare yourself properly for
a big fight first of all you
need to be fit so if you know you're fit
you're halfway there you
know because I'll say a lot of
people pretend they're fit and they
pretend that they've done the runs they
pretend that they've
done the training and then you see them
in the tuning rooms and
they're cackling their pants and
you know they're thinking shit I'm gonna
get filled in because
that's the problem with this game
especially at the stage I'm at everyone's
watching so if you haven't trained and
you haven't prepared
you're all gonna get beat up in the whole
world it's gonna watch you
get beat up so you've got to
make sure you're all fit and you're all
prepared so that's the
main thing make sure you fit
secondly it's like you say when you're
mentally getting there say
have the game plan know your
game plan so me and Andy will have a game
plan I'll say right this is
what we want to do and then
we'll make sure we drill that and it
becomes second nature it's
almost like you're breathing
it you know you know what shots coming
next so a couple of times
we'll do parts and let's say
I'm doing a one two right the body I know
for a fact Andy's gonna he
hasn't says he's gonna do it
but I know the parts come at the end I'm
throwing the left too
because I know it's coming next so
it's you're mentally prepared for what's
coming next and I think as
I say if you've got the game
plan down and you fit your sound it
sounds like you've got a very good
preparation there going
on in what you identified as a lot of
people in the changing
room who are out of breath
um a lot of people don't prepare properly
and that's what lets
them down but it sounds like
you do cover all bases like you see
you've got no because if you don't
everyone's watched you
you get discovered and you're like he
hasn't trained he's not
fit you know I mean I would
hate it but it's horrible because I think
my first eight or nine fights I just
knocked everybody out
straight away and then I remember I
thought I don't have to
train so I had the next fight and
I was a good kid so maybe I've had the
fight and then I was I struggled I won
the fight but it was
a struggle I thought I wasn't fit and
it's a horrible feeling
when you go in there it's a
lonely lonely place you know if you're
it's even if someone's got a
faster pace than you but if
you're not fit and then you've steamed
out on the kid you find him
with loads of shots and then he
hasn't fell over and you're thinking shit
I'm gonna get beat up
here and I'm that tired I can
barely keep my hands up so it's a lonely
lonely place if it goes
wrong so you I just don't want
to be that person that's getting filled
in when I'm tired because
it's you're getting knocked out
here especially in bare knuckle
heavyweight you're getting put to sleep
yeah like you've identified
it's an individual sport and it's you
there alone in the ring with your
opponent there's no one
coming to help you there's no one coming
to save you you've got to
dig real deep it's the running
nobody can make you run like I'll run in
yeah just so they know I'm
running I mean you can run
outside if you want also I'm 40 now if I
get injured I can jump
off and go straight home
I don't want to be running wrong time off
and then I'm gonna get
attacked back home so what I'll do
is I'll run here but the reason why I do
it is so the lads know I'm
running because usually the
lads when they train you they're doing
the pad work for you they
know you've done the pad work
you look sharp on the pads but it's very
different when you're
getting hit back anybody looking on
the pads but as soon as someone punches
in their face you'll see the
energy drain out them and if
you haven't done the road work you can
see because you delay things you know
when you're not fit you
might see a shot you think I'll land that
shot but if I throw it I
might tire myself out I'll get
hit back and you see them hesitating I'm
not throwing that shot
because I'm not fit enough
and like when you're fit enough you can
throw any shot you want and
I don't know I think you see
things better because you're fit you know
when you're sweating and
you're not good you can't
see the shots you're tired when you're
when you're all fit and you're already
you can see everything
you're aware of everything yeah you're
sharp but yeah so um do you
actually have a pre-performance
routine I go to sleep so usually what
I'll do is I like to hit pads I like to
go in early and I like
to hit parts as hard as I can so I'll put
every bit of ounce of
power I've gotten every it's
probably it's not even technically right
I just I want to hit it as
hard as I can of getting that
little bit of aggression because I think
it's wrong to go into a
fight full of aggression
because I think you make mistakes when
you're too aggressive so I
get all my aggression out
I get a good sweat on I go to sleep I
wake up I do some light
parts and then that's it I'm out
and how long did it take
you to refine that routine
um I don't know I'd like you just you
find things because like I've had a lot
of fights now so like
you start off and you like some coaches
will make you do pads right
up your fight and then you
think I was knackered in that fight and I
think it was because I'd
done the pads so like I'm not a
stupid person you know I'm quite switched
on so I think I'll do my
pads a little bit early I'll
get the second wind and then sometimes
you might do your pads too
early and then you're cold again
when you're going to so you've got to
make sure you just get the
timing right so I like to like
I say hit the pads as hard as I can get
the sweat on cool down then I do light
parts to warm myself
back up and then I'm in so it sounds like
you've got good
self-awareness of what works for you
and what doesn't work for you and you've
seemed to have developed
that over the years I'm looking
at because I overthink the game that's
probably why I'm good at
the game though but like
if I'm sparring I know let's say I'm
sparring it could be in the
third round I've been caught in
the shot I know exactly where I was stood
in the ring why I moved
there so what I'll do is I'll go
home and I'll overthink it so I'll sit in
again I've been punched
there because I stepped on my
right whereas really I should have
stepped back and then stepped me left
come out the danger come
away so I'll overthink what I've done
there for about four or five
hours and I think I shouldn't
have been there I've been hit because I
was there really I should have
done that so when I come back
when I spar again I'll make sure I don't
step to the right but it's
funny you know when you're
seeing self-awareness like I know exactly
where I am all the time in
the ring I know I know exactly
where I should be where I need to be I
know how to close somebody
into a space so I've been
lucky that way so you've got good spatial
awareness there and what
you were just describing
there essentially is a form of imagery so
when you when when
you're picturing yourself and
do you watch yourself again like you're
looking at a video recorder
when you analyze I mean when
I'm sparring I just I know it's in my
mind because you've been
punched you know what I mean
kind of hurts so like if someone's
punched me in the head I
think I don't want to be punched
so how do you run through it though are
you can you see yourself are you
imagining are you just
sort of I don't know I think it's I'm
quite relaxed when I'm in
there so I'm not relaxed
I know exactly what's going on and like
I'm I think it's really not
back in the day we used to
have like two or three pairs sparring in
the ring at the same time so
you had to be aware who was
over there because if you're sparring I
don't want to go over there
because I don't want to get
kicked off somebody over there so I think
I always just become aware of where I was
when you were saying do you watch things
back in my fights like I
meant in sorry I meant inside
in terms of you when you you're thinking
about your fight I'll just
run it through my memory yeah
so it's it's like a visual memory that
you've got that you're
running through but it's different
you know like when you fight it's
obviously it's recorded so it doesn't
matter if I want to fight
I lost the fight I'll watch my fight
every time what I do is I'll
record every round and I'll go
through and I'll see how many shots I've
landed so I'm not even
watching the fight I just say right
I've through 25 40 shots I've landed 15
shots so I'll write that
down and I'll go back the same
round I say right he's through 30 shots
he's through 15 and I'll
go the next round so I get
all the numbers and I analyze it like
that last one when you Arnold throws
lands 25 shots around
so the game plan was get Arnold to throw
35 to 40 shots around he'll
tie a quicker so what I was
doing like I say watching Arnold's fight
on this fight first round he
throws 25 shots second round
he throws 27 shots on an average third
round he throws 30 if I can
get him to throw more shots
than that he'll tie a quicker so that's
what I do I'll go I'll go
around I'll say right I need to
get him so that's what I'm saying I've
stood in Arnold's face
because when I'm there Arnold thinks
he's in danger he's got to throw more
shots at me if I can get him
to throw more than 30 shots
I'm on a winner yeah well yeah so what
you are describing there
is you've been using imagery
when you're re-running it through your
memory on what you were doing your
strategy and also when
you're watching video recordings of
yourself and then it's very good what
you've done what you've
just described there in terms of
preparation about thoroughly analyzing
your opponent and looking at
how they how they perform it's all
numbers let's say I like
maths me I love maths you know so
everything's numbers to me if I can bring
it down and it's percentages
so if I can get the percentage
in my favor I'm on a winner so you just
touched on there a little
bit about how you evaluate
your performance after a fight is there
anything else that you do
like I say I never watched me
fight to say how well I've done I never
got no you don't mid there
I watch it nothing I've been
punched there I've been moved I moved
that way should have done
that so it's exactly the same
as when I do on the spawn when I'm doing
it in my mind apart from I
get to say it so I think I've
been caught there because I've moved that
way I should have moved
that way so you come back the
week later on the gym once you healed up
you're like right I'll not
start circling this way or
move that way just to try to adjust so
you don't get hit again and
then how do you refocus after
setbacks before and during a fight like
before the fight you know
like I say you get injured
so I ripped my cough so that was it once
you rip your cough I stopped
running I went on the on the
exercise bike or I break my hand I might
break my right hand during the
preparation that's it you
just do everything on your left hand so
what you do is you put a
weight in your right hand
you just you don't hit the part but you
throw it so you still lift
up the weight so you're still
training stuff so unless you break both
your legs and both the arms
you're not good but if I only
break I mean when I fought that Steve
Banks I broke my foot I got bugled and
then as I caught the
bugle I didn't have put them all away I
broke my foot so I
couldn't run for that fight so
everything's on the treadmill sorry on
the exercise bike so
you've just got to work around
different different things if that's
injured you work on that if
these are injured you work on
your running yeah so that's like a really
resilient mindset you're
describing there because often
someone who maybe they'll have an injury
and they can no longer do a
particular exercise that they
want to do will just say oh I'm not doing
it now whereas you're very
flexible adaptable you'll
find a way of making it work you've got
to be fit in this game if
you're not fit you're really
going to get hurt so like I say if my
foot's injured I know for a
fact my upper body can work
if my upper body so I know my legs can
run you've just got to be
the key to this game is fitness
yeah so you haven't got the advantage of
playing as part of a team
either whereas if you are
injured you can sort of hide behind your
teammates to some degree
it's you don't get that
spotlights on you okay when you get beat
it's your fault so and then
in terms of staying focused
on training and fights how do you do that
when life throws you a curveball
you know it is you're treated as two
different things and my
wife's really good at this for us
I've got to go to the gym at them times
so my wife knows I'm there
at them times so she'll leave
us alone on them times and when you come
back you deal with your
personal life different
so doesn't matter what like my dad's busy
my dad's got cancer at
the minute so sorry you hear
that he's doing fine to be honest I think
he's doing better when he
first went in so when you're
dealing with your dad outside the gym but
in the gym you're gonna
forget about your dad it sounds
horrible it's a sport where you've got a
focus on yourself so when
I'm in the gym for them I was
a focus on me as soon as I come out
trying to ring my dad say
how he's doing go and say him
the same with my wife like my wife's got
something wrong with that at
the minute so like she's back
and forwards at the hospital so like once
I've done with the gym I'm
straight back I mean every
now and then she's my phone is up once I
leave the gym luckily
because usually my phone's on
silent I just heard it that day rushed
off the hospital but if
it's an emergency obviously you
go to your family but usually you have
your gym you do your gym get
that out of the way do your
family yeah two separate lives so you're
very good at
compartmentalizing all these different
elements which help it all work yeah okay
so um what do you believe
sets world champions and
professional athletes apart from others
determination it's like um like I say you
know when things are
going wrong you still go to the gym if
that's not working your arms
not working you train your leg
if your legs not working you train your
hands it's like you say
you've just got to be versatile
just keep going just keep blowing away
like you say I know I've
got a sniffle that day I'm not
coming in stop being soft get yourself in
the gym and I mean if you
were boxing is a game where
anybody I mean I just proved I'm from a
council state bone and
shields went to Shemwa nothing
there absolutely nothing as soon as I've
come over stomp boxing
I've went for because I've got
determination I can go for and I'll start
the boxing later I'll
start the kickboxing at 23
I didn't start boxing I was about 28 and
I've went quite far so if
I could have started at 11
and I had let's say I like were rich I'd
throw money at your kid go
and get the gym every day
I didn't I didn't get that opportunity I
just went because I good
determination I like having a fight
so I think if you've got that you can't
go for yeah and what
you're describing there is
essentially resilience and mental
toughness and there's something to be
said by sort of having
not having it easy that helps develop
mental toughness and
resilience I mean I would say I
had a good upbringing but like you say
like you know like outside
of the house you know back in
life same back now I used to play out
there was always older kids
you know when you're living in
a state there's always a gang of older
kids picking on the
younger kids so you're always
into a scrape you know there was always
something you know like oh
you kind of go there that lads
gonna fill you in them team there pinch
your football off you you
know I mean it's happened
all the time you know so you just you had
to be used to it you know
so I think it does make you
tougher yeah so you learned how to deal
with it in those situations
which helps you become mentally
tough it's like streetwise I need to
become more streetwise so what advice
would you give to someone
striving to become a world champion in
any discipline I'm glad
he says any discipline
because if someone would be a world
champion and bend up the box in the way
young I'd say don't do
it but in any discipline train hard have
a game plan and stick to
it so is there anything else
you'd like to say today that you haven't
had a chance to say no I
think I've said enough I think
I said loads enough thank you very much I
really appreciate that it's been a
pleasure to have you
talking about resilience mental toughness
about being a world
champion and what it takes to get
there oh no problem thanks for having us
so would you just like to take this
opportunity to thank
your sponsors yeah I've got two great
sponsors obviously the gym O
tools gym um honestly I'll be
lost without them the the letters do
whatever I want in this gym
you know it's a gym and this
is say go on make you go free rein in
that so dealing there
Richie had been great for us on
there and I've got Mark Bailey he's my
main sponsor a computer
clinic Mark and his wife Jillian
and without them I couldn't be fighting
because them them that is
trained full time now so he's
a great others and you know it is a great
hub to the loads of fight
as he helps everybody doesn't
matter what show you on what level of
fighting you on he will help
anybody and on he's he's the
men people but um I couldn't do without
Morgan Jillian at the
minute because I wouldn't be able
to train full time we've also got a
unboxing show on as well called the
straight I show that Mark's
also part of it me Andy Morgan me pal
Morgan and that'll be on next week as
well so uh hopefully
that'll be a kind of little banger event
so make I just like to say on
behalf of myself and everyone
listening and watching that you are a
remarkable man for both your fighting
career and the way you
approach it but also your devotion to
your family with a
professional record reflecting
exceptional skills and mental toughness
which encapsulates your
hard work commitment and
sacrifices to the sport of bare knuckle
boxing which is why you
are world champion thank you
for being so open and sharing your story
today it means a lot
thanks for having us on I really
appreciate it thank you