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We are Alyssa and Bri, two sisters who believe God wants more for women than we've been taught. Join us as we dive into the intersection of faith and feminism, learning together as we go.
Welcome to the We Are More podcast. My name is Alyssa. And my name is Bree.
Speaker 2:We're two sisters passionate about
Speaker 1:all things faith and feminism. We believe that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach his word, and apparently that's controversial. Get comfy.
Speaker 2:Hello, all. Hello. Alyssa's dying. I'm not dying. That's not true.
Speaker 2:I'm vaguely well. Alyssa is a poopy pet. Thank you for that.
Speaker 1:No. I'm dealing with many of you will understand insurance issues at the moment. Lovely. Yeah. And medication issues.
Speaker 1:So it's been a good time the last few weeks.
Speaker 2:We love the insurance agency. Am I allowed to say that?
Speaker 1:I well, you were being sarcastic. So now if you've all been following the saga of Bree once being illiterate and then now suddenly reading every book she can get her hands on
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:She is going to be about 50% here today because she's on the last three chapters of her book. And I think she wants to kill me
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:For making her record right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Anybody else reading that book she when she was me? That's new. It's a newish book.
Speaker 1:I think it's all over the book talk. I've seen it there. My gosh. Book talk has been taking us down.
Speaker 2:I want oh. Okay. Okay. Remember how I'm illiterate and I don't know how to read?
Speaker 1:Yes. We just discussed that.
Speaker 2:This past weekend, there was a book sale at the library, and Alyssa and I both did some damage. Like, we went two days in a row.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Each time, I bought 10 books. So 20 books. And then I went home and watched the book talk, and then I bought nine more on the Internet.
Speaker 1:Book talk, I'm telling you, like, every it's every other video. Once you watch one, that's everything you're seeing. You're not gonna see anything but books.
Speaker 2:It is. That's all I'm seeing. I'm like, gosh. Dang it. I know.
Speaker 2:And they all make them sound so good.
Speaker 1:They do. But they're also the big problem I'm having normally, I if you guys haven't looked at thrift books, that's where I get most of my books because they're used. They're, you know, cheaper or whatever.
Speaker 2:But Good for the environment? Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Same.
Speaker 2:Just plain it. One book at a time.
Speaker 1:Yeah. One book at a time. But these books on the book talk, they're all relatively new.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And because they're so popular, you just can't get them used.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That was my problem. So I found a hack. I bought them from somewhere else. Catch a life hack.
Speaker 2:Thrift books, you're right. Like, if it's a newer book, you can only get it new on there. But if you go on, like, eBay? EBay is where I bought, like, six books because you can still find them used on there. So I did.
Speaker 2:We'll see if they show up. It's still a gamble. There's
Speaker 1:no way to know. I got a box from Thriftbooks today. And normally, when you order from Thriftbooks, they send you, like, a poly mailer. Yeah. The books are fine.
Speaker 1:Not I've never had one damaged in transit.
Speaker 2:A book is a book is a book. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I got it today, and it was this massive box. And my husband comes into the room, and he goes, what did you do? Like, what book did you order? It's like,
Speaker 2:15 copies of War and Peace. Yeah. I
Speaker 1:mean, you could've fit in there. I was gonna go with an encyclopedia or something, but no. But it was literally just two normal sized paperback books.
Speaker 2:I'm picturing have you seen the Santa Claus? I know you have. I'm talking to the bigger you. The royal you. Royal you.
Speaker 2:When he gets the naughty and nice list
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's just boxes and boxes and boxes and boxes. That's what I'm picturing coming to the house soon, full of books.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I don't know where you're gonna put them because your brand new bookshelf is full.
Speaker 2:I know. I'm gonna have to get another bookshelf. I saw a TikTok today,
Speaker 1:and the guy was responding to people saying, like, I don't have room for any more books. He's like, so build another bookshelf. And they were like, I don't have room for any more bookshelves. And he said, you always have room for more bookshelves.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Move your fridge. So those of you out there
Speaker 1:who feel that you may not have room for more books, move your fridge.
Speaker 2:People like the Kindle and that kind of they like to read their books on their phone.
Speaker 1:Oh, like a digital space. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I don't like that. I like to look over there and see my hoarding problem.
Speaker 1:Confront it head on. I'm actually I like to know that I've read a book too, so I like to doggy your pages Yeah. And stuff like that. I know that's
Speaker 2:that's Goodreads now, which is an app that I discovered now that I'm literate. You can track your reading.
Speaker 1:I've been I just have, like, a note on my phone with all the books. I read six books last month. I was very proud.
Speaker 2:Oh, good for you. That's a lot. I read one.
Speaker 1:I I'm trying to read more, but some of them are long. The books I'm reading right now are long, so it's taken some extra time.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But the book we've been reading the last few days
Speaker 2:Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey.
Speaker 2:I got it on Thriftbooks. Hooray. Not sponsored. But if
Speaker 1:you wanna sponsor us Thriftbooks, you just need to send us books. You don't even have to pay us.
Speaker 2:No. Just send us books. We work for books. We do. We're dumb.
Speaker 2:It's called the one year book
Speaker 1:of devotions for boys two. I wanna know what happened in one. Like, what add ons were they like, we need a volume two. Or was it just we assume the boys have gone through the first year, and now they need
Speaker 2:a new one? I don't know. What happened to the boys? I love the cover of this book, though. It's very of the times.
Speaker 2:It is. It is orange and blue and green and iridescent and yellow. It is quite sparkly. It is. What's up?
Speaker 2:It says includes keys for boys. 365 character building principles. They get keys? Yeah. I guess.
Speaker 2:I haven't seen a single key in this.
Speaker 1:Not even one. Wanted to work through if you if you didn't listen to the last part of kind of this little miniseries, we did a I wouldn't call it a devotional. We did call it a devotional, but it was more like a study for teenage girls. Self help kind of Yeah.
Speaker 2:Inspirational book?
Speaker 1:Yeah. What was it called?
Speaker 2:Let's Talk. Let's Talk by Danae Dobson. Girlfriends talk about God, guys, and growing up.
Speaker 1:So we did a couple of episodes on that and just, like, what the message for young Christian girls was at that time. I think it was published in the early two thousands.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And that would have been our era. Mhmm. So we kind of went over, like, what girls were being taught, and it made me sad. Didn't make me surprised because I grew up with it, but it did make me sad. So we wanted to do kind of a contrast and see what what was geared towards boys in the same era.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And in the same circle. Like, obviously, boys that are picking up this book are being gifted this book, if they're reading it at all, is they're in already that, like, more conservative Christian circle,
Speaker 1:I would say.
Speaker 2:Same with the book geared towards girls. Right. Like the church kids. The church kids.
Speaker 1:Think of the church kids at your school. If you went
Speaker 2:to a public school if
Speaker 1:you went to a Christian school, you're probably all church kids.
Speaker 2:The p k's. Did you ever hear that?
Speaker 1:Oh, pastor's kids? Yeah. Yeah. They're all messed up now, I hear.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Those PKs.
Speaker 1:So we've worked through a little bit of it. We'll probably do at least two episodes on this book, I think. Yeah. Possibly stretch it to three if we're really feeling ambitious.
Speaker 2:I'm not. Oh. I'm just gonna tell you based on reading a devotional for, like, seven to nine year old boys, I'm a little tired of it. I'd rather read my scary murder book.
Speaker 1:Ah, yes.
Speaker 2:So let's get on with
Speaker 1:it so Bree can finish
Speaker 2:her scary murder book. Yes. So today might be a shorter episode because I'm, having a mental breakdown.
Speaker 1:You're always having a mental breakdown, and we usually stretch it to an hour.
Speaker 2:Quite frankly, I'm always in breakdown. I hear that. If I'm not living, I'm dying. What? We're always moving towards death.
Speaker 1:I mean, I guess.
Speaker 2:We're one step closer. Alright. Let's move on. So if you've never seen, like, a Christian devotional, it's set up, like, each day. So there's 365 little short stories, and they're all terrible.
Speaker 2:Not that I'm hating on this book. It's fine.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you can tell the vibe yet, boys and girls.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. I don't mean to, like, right off the jump be a hater. Yeah. You do. I'm always a hater of everything and most things.
Speaker 2:Everything and most things. Yeah. So I just kinda skimmed through the table of contents, and I picked a few days that I thought, those sound like good.
Speaker 1:So I don't know if good is the word I'd use. February.
Speaker 2:It's called a walrus family part one and two.
Speaker 1:Oh, there's a part two? Mhmm. Is there a cliffhanger at the end of part one?
Speaker 2:No. No. So there's always a verse attached to each one of these little devotionals, something to memorize. Something that I'm noticing right from the beginning was different between this book and the girlfriends talk about god, guys, and grown up was the initial verse was not submit to your spouse. Oh, really?
Speaker 2:I know. I was shocked. I know. That was different, and I was surprised by it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I'm sure you were.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you opened it and you thought, oh, I know what I'm gonna find here.
Speaker 2:Yes. They're finally gonna talk about equality. No. No. Like, February 2, the verse to read was John sixteen seven through 15.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So that in the NIV is, but very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the advocate will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. When I come, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment. About sin, because people do not believe in me, about righteousness, because I am going to the father, where you can see me no longer, and about judgment because the prince of this world now stands condemned.
Speaker 2:I don't truly know how that connects to this story, but it does, I guess. So in this little story, every story is about a family. I think that what they're trying to say is, like, this is the ideal family. This is the perfect Christian family. Not that they're not doing anything wrong because they want you to learn from them as well, but this is how a family should be set up.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And it it basically goes on to say this boy didn't wanna go with his mom and sister to the nursing home where they were volunteering. And mom said, like, hey. This will be good for you. It'll feed your spirit. It'll feed your soul.
Speaker 2:And sometimes, like, the walruses, you have to do what you don't wanna do. I don't know how the walruses walruses?
Speaker 1:I've missed something in translation.
Speaker 2:There was some kind of narrative about the walruses.
Speaker 1:Oh, good.
Speaker 2:And how they survive.
Speaker 1:You know how walruses stubbornly don't wanna do things that are good for their souls?
Speaker 2:And I've always said that. And it's in the Bible. It's Hezekiah one one one. But in this story, the mom is depicted as this, like, you know, stay at home mom. She's bringing cookies to the nursing home.
Speaker 2:She's the one caring for the children Mhmm.
Speaker 1:In
Speaker 2:this page as well as in February 3, the walrus family part two.
Speaker 1:Hey. Is this, walrus family dreams come true?
Speaker 2:Yes. Okay. You're dumb. So in part two, the son does end up going to the nursing home. He thinks that it's a good time.
Speaker 2:Yay. Hooray. Mom, I liked this more than I thought I would. Hooray. And it was all your idea.
Speaker 2:And mom says, I think I'm getting credit for something the holy spirit did. I think he has been working on you. So that's just like a common theme that I see throughout reading these short little stories is, like, mom's never taking the credit for anything that she does. Mom is, like, passive, submissive, demure, mindful. So this
Speaker 1:is totally off topic. What was the necessity of making this two parts?
Speaker 2:Girl, stretch it out. They had to make 365 of these.
Speaker 1:Oh, sorry.
Speaker 2:Now I know that these stories are meant to be very simple Mhmm. And geared towards, like, seven to nine year old boys for this specific book, but it's what you read in between the lines, like, the subliminal messaging of it all. Mhmm. The idea that this is the perfect family. This is how things should be set up, mom and dad.
Speaker 2:Mom and dad have kids. Mom and dad go to church. Mom stays home. Dad goes to work. And Mom nurtures the kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Something else that I noticed was a common theme was the idea that, like, boys can do anything and be anything. Mhmm. So there's one day oh, I flipped right to it.
Speaker 2:February 15.
Speaker 1:So proud. I'm really good.
Speaker 2:The title for this one is what shall I be, and the verse attached to it was Colossians three twenty three through 24, which I did write down because I was forward thinking to change to myself. And I think this is the NLT. It says, work willingly at whatever you do as though you were working for the Lord rather than for people. Remember that the Lord will give you an inheritance as your reward and that the master you are serving is Christ. I didn't mean for that to sound offensive.
Speaker 2:I was just reading funny. But in this story, the little boy is saying that, hey, mom. I think I wanna be a pastor.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And she's saying, great. Of course. But what if God wants you to be a doctor or a lawyer or a dentist or a pilot? I'm sure you'll be willing to do, like, whatever God wants you to do. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:That was striking to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Because that's not the message that we heard in Let's Talk. Faith, guys, garbage.
Speaker 2:There's no limits to what boys can do. Right. And what you mentioned earlier was these are all, like, high up leadership positions.
Speaker 1:Well, they're also traditionally masculine Yeah. Positions. Yeah. So a pilot, a police officer, a fireman, you know, whatever. They're all rough tough, whatever jobs.
Speaker 1:I don't know about a pilot.
Speaker 2:Is a is a pilot a rough tough job? I think it's I mean, you're flying.
Speaker 1:Alright. Birds out there, you get
Speaker 2:to be rough and tough.
Speaker 1:No. But I think, yeah, those are all leadership positions that he named off.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And no one bats an eye because, of course, he has every potential, and the boys reading this book have every potential to be doctor, lawyer, whatever
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Or pastor.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:But if this was the other book that we just went through, it would be instead of the mom saying, well, yeah, you can be whatever god wants you to be. Mhmm. It would be, well, but don't you wanna have kids? Mhmm. What would your kids do if you're out working a job?
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:That's the message here. Boys can go out and do anything, and they can. I'm not saying they can't. They absolutely can. But girls don't get that same consideration.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And in here, she's saying, like, you're gonna be serving god being a doctor, a lawyer, a dentist, a pilot. Whereas a woman, really, it seems like the only way that she would actually be serving god is to be married and birthing 47 children. It's just like the reading between the lines, like the subliminal messaging that boys are being taught from a young age that women are not as important Mhmm. As the boys are. And that just spirals as you're getting older in the way that they're viewing women, in the way that they're viewing
Speaker 1:their worth. I think something that comes up for me really interestingly in this too is men in the conservative Christian circles will say that they are supposed to be the spiritual leader of the household. You hear that all the time. God granted them spiritual leadership of the household. And they'll give you verse after verse of it, and I could jump in and say why all those verses don't actually mean that.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. But they will tell you that, that above anything else, even above, like, leading their family and anything else, Spiritual leadership. That's where it's at. Right? But you read through these, and you see mom being the spiritual leader even in this book that's geared toward very conservative Christian families.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Mom is the spiritual leader. Mom is the one taking them and saying, like, this is gonna be good for your soul.
Speaker 2:Because mom's at home. Right. Mom's around those kids.
Speaker 1:Mom is taking a leadership role. And yet, if you asked the author of this book who let's see. Who is it?
Speaker 2:It doesn't say.
Speaker 1:No. We don't get an author.
Speaker 2:Mystery.
Speaker 1:Rude. If you asked the author of this book, I would guess that they would tell you that dad is the spiritual leader.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Or even the way that mom is depicted, like, where she says, well, I shouldn't take credit for that. That's the holy spirit. Mhmm. Even women are kind of brainwashed into this feeling of, like, don't accept your own.
Speaker 2:Not that I'm saying take away power from God. Absolutely. God is doing everything he has his hand at everything. But it's okay for you to take ownership of your own power and say, yeah. That was my suggestion.
Speaker 2:You're welcome. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I got up this morning even though I didn't feel like it, even though my legs hurt, and I fell down the stairs. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I think women are conditioned to not take credit for any of that stuff.
Speaker 1:The mom in this story, when she takes her kids to hang out with walruses, she's she still has to get up, get breakfast ready, like, motivate herself to get her butt out the door and take her kids on this excursion Mhmm. That they're gonna go on to because she believes that it's gonna be good for them. Right? Mhmm. It's okay women out there for you to take some credit for the things that you are doing in your life.
Speaker 2:I'd like everybody to do a little exercise too, and just give a woman a compliment, like, on her outfit. Don't be creepy. But say, like, hey, super cute shirt. Watch how often she says thank you or how often she says, oh my gosh, this old thing is it was on sale. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Or I got it in a good deal.
Speaker 2:In my closet or I dug it out of a dumpster or whatever. We can never accept compliments. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Well, because we're taught that what we do, how we look, all of these things, we're not supposed to first of all, we're not supposed to think we look good or that we did well or that any of our accomplishments are our own, particularly as Christian women. We're give it all to god. God made me beautiful. It's not that I spent four hours on my makeup this morning. God made me beautiful, and god did make you beautiful.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. But also, it's okay to say, like, yeah. Actually, I've spent a lot of time curating the way that I look or the career that I have. Yeah. And you flip that around and, like, a male pastor will rattle off stats at you like you wouldn't believe.
Speaker 1:This is how many people come to my church on Sunday mornings. This is how many people we've baptized this year. Here's a list of this, this, and this, and they'll give you all of these things. And they might say at the end of it, and glory be to god. But the reality is they want you to know that they are doing those things.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And that's okay. It's perfectly acceptable in our society for men to do that. It's not perfectly acceptable for women to
Speaker 2:do it. Mhmm. And when we do, when we say thank you or yes, I know or I'm aware that I'm gorgeous, so sorry, we are kind of looked at as being conceited, full of it, Not very nice.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Other words.
Speaker 2:When you're just being confident. Right. Confidence is not feminine. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Well, it's like this last week, I had a situation where I was applying for a job, and I'm gonna be fully honest with you guys. Like, I was not qualified for this job. Mhmm. It was way above my pay grade. But one of the things that I remembered as I was deciding whether or not to apply for it in the first place is that I've heard that men will apply for a job when they're, like, 60% qualified for that job.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Women will not apply for the same job until they are a 20% qualified for it. Mhmm. They have to know for sure that they know everything that they're getting into because otherwise, they don't feel qualified because we're taught not to be confident in ourselves. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:We're taught not to show that confidence in ourselves.
Speaker 2:Or like the other podcast that we did on imposter syndrome. Yeah. We're taught that we should if we have if we're in a good position or whatever it is, don't feel confident about it. Mhmm. Feel like you're an imposter.
Speaker 2:Feel like you don't own it or don't deserve it. Right. Because that's what women do. Right?
Speaker 1:Well, and if you put it into context for this book, let's say, you know, the the mom, as she takes her kids to this nursing home, and they feel the holy spirit within them. And she just automatically deflects everything and says, nope. God is working on you. God is working on you. No.
Speaker 1:God is working on them.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And
Speaker 1:I think that's great. But how much more can you do for god's kingdom when you're confident in what you're doing?
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:If she's able to say, well, I'm so glad that we did this today. It was important to me to get you here Mhmm. To give you this opportunity so that you could learn from it. And I'm so glad that God is working on your heart as well. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Now the next time that she goes to do whatever and help her kids down the same road, now she has the confidence saying, I did something that worked. Mhmm. She's not waiting on the Holy Spirit to, like, imbue upon her this wisdom and whatever. She can take a step so that then god can come in and Mhmm. Do what only god can do.
Speaker 2:And we talk about that so often. God is gonna work in your life whether you like it or not, but you have to take a step. Mhmm. And he's gonna tell you whether it's right or wrong, and then you're gonna take another step. And he's gonna tell you it's right or wrong, and then you take another step.
Speaker 2:But you have to keep taking those steps. Mhmm. If you stand still and just wait for, like, little whispers in your ear I'm not saying it's never gonna happen. God can do anything. But it's way more likely that he's gonna be talking to you if you're moving.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Well, I
Speaker 1:think it it's think of, like, the basic concepts of physics. Right? Right. An object in motion will stay in motion. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:If you get your little butt moving, you're more likely to keep moving forward. And even if you bounce off the wrong wall, you'll keep moving. You'll keep moving. But an object that is sit sitting still is very hard to get moving forward. It's It's a lot harder to get it to go.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, god might push you, but is he gonna push you hard enough to take a step? Right. No.
Speaker 2:It's gonna take a lot more time. Right. And you're gonna get a lot less far. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And so in being able to own those steps and say, I took a step
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:It was hard, and I did it with god's help, but I did take a step Mhmm. It gives you that boost of confidence to take the next one. Yeah. And as women, I think we need we need to learn to be confident in ourselves. We need to learn to take a little bit of the credit.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Actually, I remember seeing I might have referenced this before. But if you guys remember, there was a series on PBS in, like, the late nineties, maybe early two thousands, and it was, like, Pioneer House. Yes.
Speaker 2:Yes. Was it Pioneer House, or was it Frontier House?
Speaker 1:It might have been Frontier House. There were a few different ones. You can find
Speaker 2:it on YouTube, and I highly recommend
Speaker 1:I actually have seen it on YouTube.
Speaker 2:That you look it up. It's gonna be terrible quality. It was not meant for our screens, but it's can it's a national treasure.
Speaker 1:You're gonna love it. It's a lot
Speaker 2:of wow. I actually frequently go back and rewatch the whole series. Frequently? I would say a couple times a year. Are you serious?
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:Wow. Did you know that they also made, like, a, like, a turn of the century one? There's a bunch of different ones. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It was great.
Speaker 1:Anyway, I remember there was a really religious family. They were definitely trying to, like, create a dynamic. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:There was a really religious family, and then there was a very not religious family that came out there. And the teenage girl from the religious family had come over to the other people's frontier house, their cabin, and was just, you know, working with them or whatever. And the mom from the non religious family was complimenting her, was like, you you're so good at whatever it was she was doing. You're so amazing. And she totally deflected.
Speaker 1:And she was like, oh, it's all from God. All from God. All from God. Which is what we're taught to do. Right?
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And the non religious mom was like, you know, honey, you need to take some credit for yourself. Like, you you're doing really good things. Like, I'm it's fine if you wanna also give God credit, but Mhmm. You're doing you're doing this on your own too. You're choosing to learn and to work and whatever.
Speaker 1:So Yeah. Take your props. And I remember as a as a very conservative Christian kid being offended by that Mhmm. And thinking, well, she should be giving all the glory to god, you know, and and the bible definitely says Glory
Speaker 2:to God in the highest.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's there. But God also created you Mhmm. With all the skills that you possess. He didn't create you like a tiny little slug that he had to mold into exactly what he wanted.
Speaker 1:No. He created you as you. Mhmm. And you have to choose to take the steps that he wants you to take. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And if you're comfortable with a man doing it, then you should be comfortable with yourself doing it. Mhmm. If If you're comfortable with a guy getting up and saying, like, here's my accolades. Here's what I've done. Here are my accomplishments.
Speaker 2:Look at me go. Mhmm. You want that. You want that kind of confident person. You want that in your doctors.
Speaker 2:You want that in your lawyers. You want that in your pilots. You should want that in yourself. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And if you're sitting there thinking, oh, I wouldn't want that in my my pastor, my religious leader, whatever, and that's who I'm trying to follow, I would sit and list next next Sunday, if you go to church or if you listen to church online, whatever, listen for it.
Speaker 2:Yep. It's just a different flavor.
Speaker 1:Because I can tell you last Sunday, my pastor got up and he was talking about, you know, the vision of the church and, you know, moving forward or whatever. And he went through the whole history of the church and talked about all the growth steps that he had implemented. He didn't say, and god implemented this. He said, I implemented this. And then god worked through it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then he talked about a book that he published. Now I don't wanna make him sound like he's super, like, full of himself. And he's talking about this book that he published to, you know, help other pastors along and things like that. And it didn't strike me as, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:He's so full of himself.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:It just struck me as, well, this is what he's done in his life. He's telling his story. Yeah. But if a woman had gotten up there and said those same exact things, what would we have said? Mhmm.
Speaker 2:What would the reaction be? Mhmm. Yeah. Definitely. Along those lines, another one of the devotionals oh, this one does not have a title.
Speaker 2:No. It does. It's called old enough. And the verse for this one is second second Chronicles thirty four one through three, and then 31 through 33. You can read that on your own time.
Speaker 2:Have fun. But this one is talking about two brothers, and they're talking about their friend who doesn't go to church, but they have convinced him to go to youth group, I believe, with him. And the older brother is talking about how happy he is, how he's leading his friends to Jesus, and the younger brother is like, hey. I wanna be on mission for god too, but I'm too young to be a a pastor or a Sunday school teacher or even lead a bible study. And so he's asking when he can start to serve god.
Speaker 2:So I just found it interesting that boys can. Mhmm. Boys can serve god. They can be a pastor. They can rule over anything they want.
Speaker 2:They can influence whatever they want. But women aren't given the same luxury. Mhmm. We didn't hear that in the book, Girlfriends Talk, God, Guys and Garbage. I like our new title.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Because a woman would never say, I'm not old enough to be a pastor. And if she did, she would be told that I can't be a pastor. In the making of biblical womanhood, we read that Beth was pretty much told that she couldn't be a Sunday school teacher either because she couldn't teach any boys that were older than 13. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Because a woman shouldn't be leading and preaching according to the very conservative Christians. So how can you serve God? Right. If you can't be a pastor, if you can't lead a Sunday school class, if you can't preach and teach, how are you supposed to serve God?
Speaker 1:Well, I think you'd hear from those people that a woman's place is to serve her family first. That she's supposed to bring her children to Jesus, not now, not through being the spiritual leader. But, you know and she's supposed to create a god fearing home and, you know, things like that. Mhmm. But I just wanna point out that that is not what god has called Christians.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Not Christian men, but what not what god has called Christians to do. Because when Jesus left his disciples, who were made up of both men and women Mhmm. He said, go into the world and make disciples. Go into the world and preach the gospel.
Speaker 1:He didn't say, men, men only. Don't talk to the women at all, actually.
Speaker 2:He said, hey, all y'all. Yeah. Because he's southern.
Speaker 1:He said, go out into the world and make disciples of everyone, not just your family. He didn't put a caveat on it. He didn't say, women, your only responsibility is to make sure that your children accept Jesus as their savior. Now women, this is a little bit of a call out on us as well, not just on, you know, this being put on us, but I think we maybe settle into that a little too comfortably. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:It's a little easy. You know? Now I'm not saying being a mom is in any way easy. Mm-mm. But if you can tell yourself, my responsibility to god is just to make sure that my kids believe in god.
Speaker 2:God. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:That's it. That's all I have to do. And then my job is over. It's a little too easy.
Speaker 2:Because it's uncomfortable. Right? It's uncomfortable even bringing up the topic, at least it is for me. Oh, yeah. Religion and faith with people.
Speaker 2:Now I think this is like, our podcast is a really great opportunity for us to communicate with all the introverts Yeah. Who maybe don't wanna have on one on one conversation with someone about faith and religion. So I do think that you and I are on mission Mhmm. Just in a different way. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think we you have to give yourself space to be who you are. Yeah. You know? Like, god didn't god didn't make you wrong as an introvert.
Speaker 1:He did not make you incorrectly, and you have to change yourself in order to serve god's kingdom. There's an avenue for all my beautiful introverts out there. Okay? I feel you deep in my soul.
Speaker 2:I'm just a truly awkward person. I don't think I'm necessarily an introvert, but if I spend too much one on one time with one singular person, I'm, like, wracking my brain. I'm like, what do I say? What do I say? What do I say to this person?
Speaker 2:Do I talk about the weather now?
Speaker 1:Oh, I've already talked about the weather.
Speaker 2:There are no more topics. And if I can't find, like, a common ground with someone, like, I really struggle. I'm like, how many questions can I ask? Mhmm. Clearly, this person doesn't wanna talk to me.
Speaker 2:I'm just gonna be silent too.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I don't think that's the way to make friends. No. Any of it, actually.
Speaker 2:My favorite thing is to deal with other awkward people and just sit in that awkwardness.
Speaker 1:That doesn't surprise anyone. Anyone listening right now, they're all like, yeah.
Speaker 2:I dealt with a really awkward patient the other day, and I made her feel even more awkward.
Speaker 1:Oh, good. Yeah. Announce that to the world.
Speaker 2:On purpose. We can cut that out.
Speaker 1:No. But I think we just, as women I don't know. Think of how much god has asked of us. Not not just as women, as people, as faith based people. God has asked us to spread the gospel all throughout the world.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. And it's really hard to deny that one, even for the conservative Christians. It's really hard.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. Good Good luck telling me not to spread the love of god. Right.
Speaker 1:So if that's what god has asked of you, and you've settled back and said, all I've gotta do is make sure my kids go to church Mhmm. You're not doing what you've been asked.
Speaker 2:And I think, like, jumping off of that too, people get really comfortable in the Christian bubble. Mhmm. Right? Right. We talked about this in the girlfriend, guys, and garbage.
Speaker 2:Is anybody doing a drinking game with how many times do I say this? Where she talks about, like, being friends with non Christian people and how you should kinda be wary of that. Mhmm. When you go to the Christian school and you go to the Christian church and you only surround yourself with Christian friends and you only do activities with other Christian people and you're always in this bubble, is that what God would do? Mhmm.
Speaker 2:I don't necessarily agree with that. Like, you have to open yourself up a little bit. Right. If our real mission, if our true mission is to reach out to those people who are unbelievers and get them give them the opportunity to go to heaven Mhmm. You're gonna have to find those people.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And you'll hear people like, well, I just this is just my circle. This is just my circle. You know, I work at a a business from someone that goes to church with me and whatever. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:What about your neighbors? Mhmm. What about the people at the garage sale you go to? Now I'm the least social person alive. Okay?
Speaker 1:So I'm I'm not saying I'm about to go over to my neighbors and be like, let's talk about Jesus. I'm not doing that. But what can you do? Where is your mission? Maybe
Speaker 2:you are volunteering somewhere. Yeah. And it doesn't have to be something crazy. You know? You can go volunteer at the library.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love the library. I know. I never go to the library. I, in theory, love the library. Very supportive of libraries.
Speaker 1:And their book sales. Mhmm. We thoroughly support the library book sales.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Always. The brown bag sales are the best.
Speaker 1:We got, like, 10
Speaker 2:books for $5. Now that we're all readers. All of us. All of
Speaker 1:us are readers. No. I just I guess what I got out of this book as we've started reading through it, I want more for women, for girls, than what these two books offer. Mhmm. I'm not asking for more than the Bible offers, but I'm asking for a lot more than these books that say they're biblically based.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. It's just once you have opened your eyes to the subliminal messaging of it all, you can't close them. Yeah. If that makes sense. Like, we've talked about it before where you're in church.
Speaker 2:How often are you hearing the word she Mhmm. Or her? Yep. How often are you hearing about the women of the bible? How often are you seeing female pastors or female speakers or worship leaders or women represented in the church?
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And it's represented right here in this book. You know? That's mom is at home, and that's her place and with her kids. And that's all she can do, and she's not gonna take credit for anything she does ever.
Speaker 2:It's not so much the actual words of these devotionals. Mhmm. It's the subliminal messaging behind it all. And if you don't measure up or if you don't your life is not like what's in this book, if you're a single person or whatever your case may be, you feel not Christian enough.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Something that's hit me this week, on Sunday, our pastor was talking about when he first came to our church, and the pastor before him had been there for, like, thirty three years. Now if you don't know this about pastors, they tend to only stay places for, like, maybe a decade. Like, churches run through pastors Mhmm. At an alarming rate.
Speaker 1:Youth pastors are even worse. But he was talking about how he got there, and the pastor it was like the founding pastor. Right? And they hired him to be the new pastor. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And so he came in, and he was changing things up. Making ways. Yeah. And, you know, when that happens, oftentimes, a lot of people leave and stuff like that. And he called himself a troublemaker.
Speaker 2:Troublemaker. Internet. That's only one time in this episode.
Speaker 1:Oh, so proud. And that, like, really resonated with me. It, like, it seeped its way into my bones, and that's all sincerely, guys, that's one of the very few
Speaker 2:things I remember from this. You're like, I'm getting that tattooed on my body.
Speaker 1:But I just felt like I then this is gonna sound weird. K? But I just felt like god was, like, speaking to me in that moment. Mhmm. And the message that I got was like, god will use you, troublemaker.
Speaker 2:We could write a song. No.
Speaker 1:We could not. We do not have that skill set, and it would have to be on the flute, and that would not go well,
Speaker 2:especially since I haven't picked it up in twelve years.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That might be a problem. I just felt like, you know, we talked a little bit in this episode about how god will use your personality
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:As he created it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And one of the parts of my personality that's always been, like, this conflict thing is I'm a little bit of a troublemaker.
Speaker 2:You're always pushing that envelope. You love trouble.
Speaker 1:I do. I love to cause trouble. And I you know, you think of it as kind of this, like, funny thing, whatever. Or if you're in Christian circles, you tamp that right down. But I was thinking that through as he's talking about coming into the church and changing things up and being labeled as a troublemaker.
Speaker 1:And I was like, you know what? God made me a troublemaker, and that's okay. Mhmm. Because I'm looking at the world as it stands, and some trouble needs to be made here. Okay?
Speaker 2:You may be a troublemaker, but I'm a loudmouth.
Speaker 1:You are. And together
Speaker 2:Together, we'll change the world. I don't like to, like, push the envelope too much. Like, I never want to, like, make someone uncomfortable, but I say things that I shouldn't.
Speaker 1:We know. They all know. The royal we knows. The royal we we. I just think that's so freeing.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Because we're so often told, tamp that part of your personality down. Don't do that. Don't do that. Here's the line.
Speaker 1:Here's the cage. Never stray beyond the well known Mhmm. Beyond the confines. Little Red Riding Hood. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But think of the freedom in being able to say, god made me like I am. Yeah. God knew who I was as he was putting every curl on my head and dying my eyes blue.
Speaker 2:Which I feel like the conservative Christian world wants all women to be the same.
Speaker 1:Yes. They wanna be picture perfect.
Speaker 2:They need to be just the pink of perfection.
Speaker 1:Wow. That was a reference.
Speaker 2:As feminine and as soft as you can be, soft spoken, not making waves. Mhmm. But that's not what's in the Bible, and we've talked about this so many times. Like, the women in the Bible are tentpeggers. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:You know? They're they're leaders. They're teachers. They're preachers. They're prophesying.
Speaker 2:Wow. They are crazy. They should be crazy too.
Speaker 1:If you look through this book and look at the representations of women throughout it, the women of the Bible have no relation to the women of this book. I'm always trying to be cautious of this, and I don't know that I always am as cautious as I should be. I don't wanna say don't be a stay at home mom because you can't serve God that way.
Speaker 2:You absolutely can serve God in any way, anything you do.
Speaker 1:What I'm saying is don't limit yourself. Yeah. You can be a stay at home mom and be an amazing disciple of Christ. Mhmm. You can be out there teaching and preaching while being a stay at home mom.
Speaker 1:One doesn't preclude the other. Mhmm. What I'm saying is no matter what you do, no matter what career you find yourself in, whether it is a stay at home mom or whether it's, I don't know, being a pilot or a pastor or a policeman, policewoman, police person. Whatever it is that you find yourself in, that there is your ministry
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:That you can teach and preach right there.
Speaker 2:Find the spot in your life that makes your blood boil. Mhmm. You know? Not in a bad way. Like, in a good way.
Speaker 1:Is there a good way where your blood boils?
Speaker 2:Yes. Oh. Like, when you and I talk about faith and feminism, there's fire in our veins. Yes. We're very passionate.
Speaker 2:We are. It's like the one thing that if anybody wants to talk to me about it, I'm like, I'm in it. I'm in, like, full eye contact. Oh, no. Let's talk.
Speaker 2:But you need to find that in your life. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And I've seen it. What's really cool is watching other people find their passions. Yeah. I remember there was a visiting pastor at one of the churches that we were at a while ago, and he said that his mission from God was to show Christian people how to
Speaker 2:rest. Shavasana.
Speaker 1:And that was really like, just to watch him talk about and that sounds kind of like a funky thing.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:But he was talking about burnout and how Yeah, girl. Like, pastors just burn out constantly. And people of faith, that's why so many of us have, like, these almost, like, middle age struggles, you know, because because we're burned out. And so he was talking about, like, the biblical command to rest, and that was his passion. And you could feel it.
Speaker 1:You know, you can some some people, you can just feel their passion coming off of him. And you could with him. And I was like, how cool to watch someone else's mission come out. His mission is to go teach other Christian people or other people in general how to rest, how to truly, like, find themselves in rest and find God in that rest. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And and, yeah, for us, it's this. Like, it's equality for heaven's sake.
Speaker 2:And I think in The US too, it's all about the hustle culture. Right. Right? If you're not doing something, if you're and even with women too, like, you have to be so much. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:You have to be going to the gym. You have to be making meal planning and food prepping. And you also have to go to work and you also have to take care of your kids and you also have to do all these extra things so your kids can also do all these things. And people are exhausted. They are exhausted.
Speaker 2:We're just stinking exhausted. And I think that's why so many people are like, oh, remember the pandemic when we just stayed at home.
Speaker 1:Well, I think as a full circle moment, I think that's why you and I have started reading as much as we have because, you know, prior to November of last year, I was on on the TikToks all the time, you know, just, like, scrolling through. Right?
Speaker 2:Eight hours a day if my phone was correct.
Speaker 1:And it's just it's too much. It's always consuming
Speaker 2:too. It's like and just makes you anxious. Like, I was on it last night, and I was like, I have to put this away. Mhmm. All of the stuff about the news and all the stuff that I should be caring about and all these new books that I should be buying, it's too much simulation.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And, actually, I've been my phone gives me, like, a report at the end of every week. I didn't ask it to, and frankly, I'm a little bitter about it.
Speaker 2:Was it eight hours a day?
Speaker 1:It tells me, like, you were on your phone four hours more this week than last week or three hours less than last or whatever. Mhmm. And so my goal has been to, like, keep it telling me I used it less, even if it's ten minutes less than the previous week. And so that's why I've been, like, reading more and just just trying to stay off the screen.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Because that really feels more restful Yeah. To me for my eyeballs because that's a pain. But for just for in general, I don't know how to connect rest now back. Rest.
Speaker 2:Sometimes we get on tangents, and it doesn't all connect. We're talking about callings. My calling is to always rest. My calling is to be in a coma. That sounds good.
Speaker 2:Like, just a quick casual, you know, two to three week coma, and then wake me back up.
Speaker 1:Okay. And then you feel that you'd be rested?
Speaker 2:Maybe. At least like a reset. Sometimes I'm like, is there a reset button? There's gotta be. It's on
Speaker 1:the inside of your ear. Yeah. I I haven't located that. You got it with the Q tip. You got too deep, though.
Speaker 1:But I think the overarching message is just women can be more.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:They can be more than what both of these books suggest. Would you say
Speaker 2:unlimited?
Speaker 1:No. But I'd love you
Speaker 2:to see it. Limited. We can cut that part out.
Speaker 1:Oh, no. No. No. No. These are not the parts we cut out.
Speaker 2:Did anybody else watch Wicked six times?
Speaker 1:I'm gonna guess not many of them. Four times were in the theater.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. What are we even talking about?
Speaker 1:I don't know. We've lost we lost it somewhere there.
Speaker 2:I figure I'm losing the room.
Speaker 1:Alright. We'll talk to you guys next week before we absolutely lose our minds. Bree's gonna go read her book, and perhaps next week, she will grace us with a review. I shall.
Speaker 2:And also, I shall tell you about my next book that I start, which might be about a man turning into a shark if it gets to me in time.
Speaker 1:And on that cliffhanger, we'll see you next week.
Speaker 2:I love you and I wish you the best. Love you. Bye. Bye.