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“We’re revitalizing and reclaiming our identity. It may seem small to some people, but it’s huge to feel that safe and proud again.”“Tattooing isn’t just art — it’s a way to wear your voice on your skin.”“Our business model is simple: do everything with a good mind and in a good way.”
The Road To Your Name Podcast series grew out of a program started by Aboriginal Legal Services (ALS) in 2016 that helped people going through the justice system and their families to strengthen and deepen their cultural connections. Host, Lisa VanEvery, examines many aspects of Haudenosaunee culture and teachings with a wide range of guests.
Greetings, everyone. Welcome to our Yo Hotei Negasuna, The Road to Your Name podcast, focusing on Haudenosaunee cultural topics recorded on Haudenosaunee territory. Our podcasts are produced by Aboriginal Legal Services with the technical assistance of TruSeed Media. Yeah. My name is Lisa Benevri from the Mohawk Nation and the Wolf Clan.
LISA:I'm the coordinator of the Yohat Teneka Sunnah, the Road to Your Name program, and the host of the podcast. This is the Yohatte Negasuna, The Road to Your Name podcast series. Welcome to this episode of Yoate Negasuna, the Road to Your Name podcast. On this episode of the podcast, I'm in very unfamiliar territory even though I'm at my home community, 6 Nations of the Grand River. We're on Tuscarora Road at 6 Nations of the Grand River at a tattoo boutique called The Addams Family Ink and Boutique.
LISA:And it's located on Tuscarora Road at 6 Nations and I'm here with the owners, Katie Adams and Montana Adams. And we're gonna learn all about tattooing, which I don't know anything about. And we're gonna learn about a little bit about entrepreneurship and we're just gonna have a visit. So let's get started. Welcome, Katie and Montana, to the podcast.
KAITY:Hi. Thanks, Lisa. Thanks for having us today.
LISA:Okay. This is our first podcast that we're actually on location, So, it's very exciting for me. I get to actually go somewhere. Alright, so we're in your studio and how when did you be when did you start the tattoo boutique?
KAITY:We opened in 2021 officially, and our opening date was September 25th, but Montana has been tattooing a lot longer than that and been running the boutique side. We started with different markets and stuff like that and pow wows and then we grew from there.
LISA:Oh, wow. So, Montana is the artist of the business and, Montana, when did you start becoming interested in tattooing?
MONT:I've always been interested since I was little. Ever since I saw my grandpa's tattoo, like, as long as I can remember. Yes. It's always thought I always wanna do that.
LISA:Yeah. And
MONT:then, yeah. Probably since I was, like, in my early twenties.
LISA:So do you remember what your grandpa's tattoo was of?
MONT:I think it's just like little rose and a dagger, I think.
LISA:Oh, yeah? That kind of fascinated you that he had a, like, picture on his arm? Oh, yeah. I can imagine that because when I was growing up, I didn't see any tattoos, really. And it's really interesting because not long ago, the Woodland Cultural Center had an exhibit and it was called the 4 Kings.
LISA:And these were 3 Mohawk men and a Mohegan man, an Algonquin man, and they went over to England. But one of them especially they painted their portraits over there. You know how English people like to paint portraits. And one of the Mohawk men was very much tattooed on the face and on the chest. I think with our people, with Haudenosaunee people and Anishinaabe people, tattooing is not that new.
LISA:No, it's like we have a long history with tattooing. And I find that very interesting. So, as you get going in your business, where do you promote your business? Like, how do you promote a tattoo business?
KAITY:Right now, the majority of our business comes from our social media pages, which are amazing things. We've had a lot of great opportunities come from there. So I would say probably about 80%
LISA:come from our Instagram page that we market through.
KAITY:And then Facebook, Instagram page that we market through and then Facebook and then other than that, just building that community and having that word-of-mouth really helps us. We have people that come that are recommended from other artists or from their family members who have pieces from Montana as well. And then on the other side of it for the boutique, we are always set up at different markets still and so that's always a good way people will ask us because we have tattoos and I usually like Montana's my tattoo artist, so it's always Mhmm. I'm a walking billboard pretty much.
LISA:Oh, yeah.
KAITY:So it's really nice to be able to promo that way too. So Oh, yeah. Kind of from a variety of places, but I've never paid any money, like, for traditional advertising or marketing yet. I've done it in more of an organic and word-of-mouth way.
LISA:The Marcus in Telegraph.
KAITY:Yep. Definitely, for sure. I like to say the smoke signals way. Right? Smoke signals.
LISA:So would you be on, like, the powwow circuit? Would you be at powwows?
KAITY:We did a couple, like, rare ones, mostly at different universities and stuff like that. I didn't grow up going to powwow, so I don't really have those connections there and I can't really speak for Montana on his side. This year, we are applying for his community powwow. Other than that, we don't do the traditional route of a powwow. We do more small community artisan markets.
KAITY:6 Nations and specifically have a lot, especially since the pandemic. So we've done our part in hosting some, but also been invited to a bunch of others.
LISA:And you say Montana's community. Montana's from Aamjiwnaang First Nation. Yeah. And Katie, you're from this community, 6 Nations of the Grand River. Yeah.
LISA:Okay. What else did I want to know about? I want to know so much, Montana, about tattooing. Do you specialize in certain type of tattooing?
MONT:Yeah. I like to do, like, more of, black and straight illustrative.
LISA:Okay.
MONT:But, yeah, I still do a little bit of color and yeah. But yeah.
LISA:Most of the time in just the black ink? Yeah. Yeah. Is that the traditional way? Right?
LISA:Just black well, like, tattoos never used to have a lot of color, like, in the 19 fifties or
MONT:something. Yeah. I was thinking, yeah. Just the black.
LISA:Yeah. I wonder why that was. They didn't put a lot of color into tattoos.
KAITY:I have a a little input for not input, but just an aside, I guess. I am just teaching myself, like, self taught. The hand poke tattooing, you can see the little mat here. Okay. And so, I do I'm starting to teach myself the hand poke and stick and poke tattooing, which is more cultural on our side of it.
KAITY:So, I've always been into that And you can actually find finds, like, archaeologically where they have found, like, tattoo needles that they used for hand poke tattooing. And then in the artifacts, they have different pigments that they can find. And they've had found some that are from different colors. So they're usually, like, the primary colors, like red and black and, like, blue. But you can find some that they've used, like, way back in the day and stuff like that.
KAITY:So I think that's really cool too. Probably depends on what part you're looking at traditionally. Right? Because there's, like, the tattoo industry, which is very different than, like, the indigenous tattoo industry And I think those traditional forms will look very different too. Because if you look at, like, traditional tattoos, they're very bold in color and, like, thickness.
KAITY:And then if you look at, like, indigenous tattooing and their traditional ones, they're very, like, pictographs or line work. And so you can see the contrast in them, I think.
LISA:Yeah. I I'm thinking of the tattoo pattern I saw on the portrait of the one king, and it was very thick. And it came down to a point. And it reminded me of the geometric designs on our ancient pottery. Yeah.
LISA:The I made the connection there. I have seen people like, younger people now, I've noticed that they're getting wristbands. Is that something that's new, do you find, with young people?
MONT:Yeah. I've noticed I've been doing a lot of armbands.
LISA:Armbands. Yeah.
MONT:Yeah. Armbands and sky domes.
LISA:Yeah. Sky domes are really popular in our culture, that image.
KAITY:I actually was talking with other people like that business wise in the last few months and a lot of people all talk and ask me about
LISA:Oh, the wind.
KAITY:Asking my opinion on that and as an indigenous person and having our different cultural symbols like tattooed and stuff. And as you can see, like, I have a lot of them myself personally. And what I like to say, it's really cool for me personally because when I grew up, which I'm not that old, I'm only 31, but I went through the nineties and I went through the early 2000. But growing up, like, I didn't feel safe or comfortable expressing myself and my identity that much as an indigenous person because it wasn't that safe, right, to go out into public and go out into society and just, like, the general population. But now I feel like we're really revitalizing and reclaiming that and reclaiming our identity and it's really cool for me to be a part of that as growth personally, but then to see that we have so many, like you said, so many young in ourselves, like, young clients.
KAITY:They're coming in from 16 right up, and they're already so proud of that and have that pride. And they're not having to go through that detransition like we had to. So that is really amazing too. And it's it it gives me a lot of faith for the future and for our population where we're at, like, right now. Because I didn't feel comfortable doing that, but these people do.
KAITY:And it means, like, we're building that strength up in our identity and starting to come back to that. Right? Because, like you said, with those 4 kings, and I've seen those portraits that are amazing and everything, and they're pretty, like, famous. Right? And so to see that and how bold and confident the like, our own people were to walk around with our art, and then you've seen that through history.
KAITY:Right? Like, it died down. And even with our ceremonies and our culture, we really had to hide that. Right? Yeah.
KAITY:Through the Indian act and everything that happened. So it's really nice for us to decolonize and be a part of it. So it may just seem like a little thing to some people, but it's really big to to have that much confidence and to feel that safe and secure. And it's sometimes, it depends. I do find myself if I'm in a certain area, say if I'm at a bar or something where I kinda am a little more conscious of it because it is very identifiable to me, but I have a lot more confidence with it.
KAITY:And I feel like we see that with all a lot of our community that are coming in doing that and it's just I told my mom that because my mom, she's in her fifties and she just got her first tattoo from Montana Mhmm. And she herself, she was I couldn't ever imagine myself doing that when I was younger. I just couldn't see that society. I wasn't really a part of that, and it wasn't there as pronounced.
LISA:Yeah. And it's like we're having we're we have a voice now, and we're we have a sort of our voice is on our skin. Yeah. That's really interesting. It's interesting thought.
LISA:So I always wondered this about tattooing. I remember watching a show. I'm a reality show person and this was like years ago when a reality show is shows are just happening. And there was a show about tattoo artists and I learned a bit then about everybody has a niche they like to do and you said you're just Black traditional tattooing, I guess it would be. And also about they don't they don't like to copy somebody else's art.
LISA:Can you talk about that? Is that part of the tattoo ethics?
MONT:Yeah. I like the I don't usually do the same design twice. Yeah. I usually take people's ideas and
LISA:just
MONT:make it my own.
KAITY:I think, personally, I would say that's more, like, on the art like, artist's side, personally, like, their ethics over tattooing because you do see that in the tattoo industry. Not where they, like, copy designs, but some artists will offer designs where you can have it repeat it and there are other people where they'll add on to a different person's art and stuff like that. So, it depends on an ethic value. Like a moral thing,
LISA:like, is Like, I guess some would be repeated because isn't one like a famous tattoo when you do your mom's name, like mom, m o m on your arm? With the heart. Yeah. With the a lot of people probably have that one. So you'd be able to if somebody came in and said, I want that one.
LISA:You'd be able to do that one even though a lot of other people have
MONT:it? Yeah. There's a lot of, you call it oh, it's so weird.
KAITY:I would say, like, standard or well known, like, designs. Right?
LISA:Yeah. Like a like a standard.
KAITY:Like a very well known one. So that for, like, traditional tattoos, that's what they call it. Not new not new school. Traditional. And so
LISA:A different meaning of traditional than we Than what we would use. That we would know. Exactly.
KAITY:So that's why I tried to print in, like, the tattoo industry versus the indigenous tattoo industry Yeah. Because when we're saying, like, a traditional tattoo, we would mean, like, very archival to our culture. Yeah. Absolutely. But when you go into the tattoo industry, their traditional tattooing is like the bold with the colors and like the type that you're talking about with the mom and the heart.
KAITY:Right?
LISA:Mhmm.
KAITY:And so they have specific names for their styles and stuff like that. Mhmm. So Montana's style is black and gray and then realism where he likes like portraits or animals, like, of what they really are. And he will do the tattoo traditional style of tattooing, where it's the more bold and stuff like that. But and then on the copying part, for our tattoo studio, we have certain policies that are specific to us too.
KAITY:Not everyone follows that, like, not every studio. So for us, for example, if a client were to come in, they already had a tattoo. Montana, as an artist, so that's just for him personally, that's not a thing that is across the board, but he won't add on to it or he won't alter it. He will do a complete cover up, and that's it. And he won't fix it or anything like that.
KAITY:If it's his own work and his own tattoo, then he'll go back and refix it and everything. On that, that's kinda him and that ethic and moral value, respect, like, that line of it. And there are some other artists that they don't go by that, and they'll definitely go and do that. Right? There are a certain number of artists in that industry that feel type of way about that.
KAITY:So, there are definitely, I think, multiple layers and it depends on
LISA:Tattoo artists are very individuals. Yeah. In their business thinking and their artistic thinking. I think across the
KAITY:board too because even the way that they're employed as individual contracts, like, they're not, like so for Montana, when he worked at the studio, it's different for me because we're married and I'm the owner. He's the studio it's different for me because we're married, and I'm the owner. He's the artist. Mhmm. Everything's 5050 between us anyways.
KAITY:But when he worked in different studios, they go by a commission base, so they are pretty much he's like a external, like, contract consultant type of deal. Right? Paid as that. So he would be, like, self employed, but he wouldn't, like, if he worked in Brantford or something like that and he was doing taxes, you don't have to worry about that on reserve. But he would have to do his own as, like, self employed and Oh, yeah.
KAITY:Do that on his own. Like, he doesn't have an employee status where he works full time or part time for them like that. So it's a very individual business from the artistic side to the business side of it. Because even all the marketing and gaining your own clientele, building your own net, even supplying your own supplies, The artist has to do that on their own.
LISA:So you have you are able to if somebody had a an error on their arm. I don't know how else to put it? A tattoo they didn't like, you could cover that up and with the make another tattoo?
MONT:Yeah. For the most part, yeah. Yeah. It really depends on what it is and, like, how dark it is and the size of it.
LISA:Oh, everyone's different. You have to look at it.
MONT:Yeah. Like, I have to, like, completely go over it and Yeah. Like, different colors and stuff, it could still come through.
LISA:Yeah. Yeah.
MONT:Yeah. Like, sometimes I have to, like, just tell them I can't do it and they have to get it Yeah.
LISA:You have to assess it and see, can I work with that?
KAITY:Yeah. On our end, like, the business side, we do consultations for every single client, especially if they're a cover up. We tell them that, usually, if someone comes in and they're getting something that's not a cover up, we can usually do that on our side without having to consult with Montana as the artist if he's with a client doing a tattoo or anything. But if someone comes in and they wanna book a tattoo and it is a cover up, Montana has to be the one to do it from start to finish because he's the only one that's gonna know if it's dark enough, can I go over it? And if I can't go over it, this is what I recommend, which is usually getting it lasered.
KAITY:Other than that, it's also the specific client too, and that's what we always try to tell them because sometimes clients we all usually get one of 2 ways. A client will come in and they want a tattoo cover up and because they don't like it anymore, but they have something specific in their mind they wanna cover it up with. So that's something that Montana might not be able to do because of what's already there or because of what they wanna cover it up with in the colors. Like, the ink won't be good enough to cover it. Or usually if a client comes in and they wanna cover up and they will tell us, like, I'm pretty open with whatever he thinks that he could cover it up with or whatever colors he needs to use, then that is usually gonna have a better success of it and it looking better and turning out better too because he has that full artistic control to to be able to do that.
KAITY:Right? To the the layout and the composition of it and then the color theory on it. Right? But if I came in and I said I wanted something specific, then that's gonna be very hard to do. So we definitely always try to tell people, like, client base, like, it really is individual and case by case because some clients will come and say, you told me I couldn't do a cover up, but my cousin came and they got a cover up.
KAITY:So how come, like, how come he did that one?
LISA:Kinda like hair styles. It reminds me of hairstyles. Some everybody wanted a certain hairstyle, but your hair doesn't grow that way, so you can't have that hair
KAITY:style. Exactly. Because some people even will come and they'll, like, getting a color tattoo themselves and their pigment is a little different. So us as Native Americans, our pigment really changes depending based to, like, person to person. Right?
KAITY:Like, me versus my mom who got a tattoo. She's 5 to 10 shades darker than me, so her same color ink is gonna look a lot different than on me. And so, trying to manage people's expectations is a big part of the job, both on the art both on the art artist side and on the business side
MONT:of it. I never really thought of it that way. That's one reason why I, like, prefer black and gray because I tattoo on dark skin.
LISA:Yeah. It all looks the same on any shade of skin. So, Montana, how many tattoos do you think you've done over the years? Oh. Can you even estimate a number?
LISA:Estimate. Not too many. I lost track. Lost track. Oh, wow.
LISA:So you must really love tattooing. Yeah. Yeah. That's just your gift and what you're supposed to be doing.
MONT:Yeah. Because I've always wanted to do something with art, and I was thinking, like, tattoo is the ultimate medium.
LISA:For sure. I have to say that I don't have a tattoo. Oh. And I was nervous coming here today because I thought, am I gonna all of a sudden want a tattoo?
KAITY:It was pretty awesome, like, on our end. We just made a post on our social media about that. We have different clients like that that have come in where they've never wanted to get a tattoo or they never thought about it. And, like, my mom being 1, she's one of our employees here. So she just being around it, got more interested in it, and then went for it herself.
KAITY:And then now she said that she was only gonna get 1 and she's added on to it. And on the other side of it, we've had clients who come in one specific that comes to mind. She come in and she wanted to get a memorial tattoo with a matching of with a family member for another family member that passed away, and she was, like, at the minimum of it. This is the only tattoo I'm ever getting. I never said I was gonna get tattoos, like, ever.
KAITY:And then by time she was done that session and she was locking to pay, she was, okay, I'll be back. And I was, like, I told you that you would because it is very addicting, but for some people it just it's like a way to express themselves too. And so that client now, she has went well past that one. She has her entire, like, left arm. She has one huge thigh piece and I think she just added on another piece to, like, the opposite arm.
KAITY:So, like, on our end, both as me as a business owner, but I can't imagine even for Montana as an artist, like, how big of a compliment that is to go that far with it. To just I love this so much that I want more and more of it. So it's always really cool to have that.
LISA:Oh, gosh. Now I'm even more nervous. A whole far from just having one tattoo. So when people come in to get a tattoo and say they want a pretty elaborate tattoo, do you tell them, okay, we can do that in 3 sessions or we can do that in 1 session or something like that.
MONT:Yeah. Mostly, like, if they want, like, a whole sleeve and then then that would take multiple sessions.
LISA:Oh, yeah.
MONT:Multiple full day sessions or we can just, like, chip away at it, do 3, 4 hours here and there.
LISA:What's the longest that you suggest to have a tattoo session?
MONT:I try to get it most I can get done in 6 hours because usually by the 4 hour mark, they're getting pretty sore and tender by that time. So, I try to get as much as I can get done in 6 hours.
LISA:Okay. Where on the body is the most tenderest part to get a tattoo?
KAITY:I think it would depend on the person. Yeah. Like, the client Everybody's different. Different. Yeah.
KAITY:For me, personally, like, my hands hurt, but other than that, like, the inside of my elbow was probably, like, biggest pain, where other people, they were, like, I can't do my fingers at all. And it was, like, I could do the rest nicks. But usually, it's like wherever your thinnest, like, skin is and then if you can feel, like, your veins and anything like that because there's just not as much, I don't know, meat, I guess, to go there with it.
MONT:Yeah. Especially, like, the hands, feet. Anything, like, on along the inside?
KAITY:Oh, right on your bone. So, like, your kneecap would probably I haven't done that yet. It's on my list that I wanna do soon, but I know it's probably gonna really hurt because I've done, like, some on my elbows and they've hurt.
LISA:So it hurts when you're getting the tattoo, but afterwards, it's just okay.
KAITY:You know what? I as a tattoo lover, I would say that the healing part is definitely worse. Like, I hate the healing part. I will sit through a tattoo session because the first 15 to 20 minutes hurt. Other than that, it's a very nice type of pain.
KAITY:I don't know how to explain that, but it's it's really comfortable and soothing, and it depends on the person though. Right? Some girls will come in and we try we say that all the time because the guys will come in as clients and they think that they have the best pain tolerance. They're gonna sit so well and usually, guys have worse pain tolerance and they're worse sitters, like, through the client. Like, they're moving more and
MONT:Guys give me a hard time usually.
KAITY:Yeah. And then the women usually have, like, better pain tolerance. Some women will fall asleep through getting some and work. I'll walk through, like, past and I'll be, oh my god. I can't believe she's he's tattooing on her shin right now and she's just taking a nap in there.
MONT:Yeah. I had a few people start snoring.
LISA:Maybe it's because women are used to giving birth.
KAITY:I think that, and I think just like the monthly, like, our cycles even, right? Like cramps and stuff are like, they're pretty intense, and I think people in society just generally think that it's not that bad. And then when we come and do something like a tattoo artist, where we've had couples, say, come in here like a man and a wife, and they've had to do one after the other. And usually, the husband won't leave because he doesn't wanna, you know, he's like, oh, she's sitting a lot better than I thought she would. Yeah.
KAITY:We always laugh at that too.
LISA:So this business that you have is really like a social business as well. Right? Yeah.
KAITY:It really is.
LISA:Yeah. You meet a lot of people from all over.
KAITY:I would say on average, you were asking Montana, like, how many tattoos you saw that he's done. So we've been open since 2021, and we start taking clients here as a soft opening in, like, that June, July. Ever since then, he's been doing, on average, probably anywhere from 2 to up to 5 clients a day. So that those are different. Anywhere from 2 to 5 tattoos a day, about 5 days a week.
KAITY:In some days, there'll only be one if we have a full session. So if you think about that though, sometimes some weeks, we're pushing out, like, 30 clients, right, in a week. So the number's probably up there. Mhmm. Definitely more than a couple hundred now.
KAITY:Probably close to a1000. And then on the other side of it, you were asking about the sessions and stuff like that. So, like, business wise, for us specifically with for Addams Family Inking Boutique, we offer hourly sessions, and then we offer, like, a daily rate. So we offer one set rate, which is $180 per hour. That includes all the equipment.
KAITY:That includes Montana. His drawing times. His custom design. Anything like that because he will do a custom design for you and that's all included. And other than that, if we he if it's a bigger piece, we'll do a day session, and that's where he does, like, the 6 hours plus.
KAITY:And then that's capped at us I don't even know what the rate is because I don't do the booking or anything that's on Montana's side of it. But I think it's $1,000 a day.
MONT:Times in a day.
KAITY:Yeah. And then so if we have a client who comes in and they want, like, a full big piece like that or they'll work towards it, we're pretty good at it. With our consults, we'll say, overall, your entire piece or project that you want say, it's gonna take 2 sessions or 1 session, right, at 10 hours or something like that. So this is on average what we think it's gonna take. Now that's always an estimation.
KAITY:So usually, we'll try to give people a range too. Right? If some people's coming and their tattoo Montana doesn't know, it might take anywhere from 4 hours to 5 hours. We'll tell people that too just so they know on their own exactly how much they're gonna look to spend. So we always try to give them the high end.
KAITY:Sometimes it's a little cheaper than that, and he'll we'll prorate the rate. Right? So, like, sometimes he's quoted some people at 5 hours, but he got the tattoo done in 3 hours, which is a lot nicer because maybe the client's arm wasn't as big when we got here as he accounted it for, or maybe they wanted the design a lot smaller than what they originally talked about. Some people at the end of it, they might not even want it shaded in where they like, like, the line work of it and stuff like that. So it's really different and very flexible.
KAITY:Montana has to be very flexible on Heath's side of it and just, like, really go with the flow. I don't know how he does that on that side because I'm not like that.
LISA:So with all of those doing all of those tattoos, you're probably seeing a trend. Right? And what people are wanting. What would that be? What are people wanting to be tattooed with?
MONT:I've been doing a lot of armbands, Skydomes, animals. A lot of people wanna get, like, their clans. Sometimes do, like, movie characters and Oh, yeah. Little portraits and stuff.
LISA:Where do where mostly do they want these tattoos, or is it just all over? It's all
MONT:over.
LISA:All over. Okay. Okay. I would
KAITY:say our shop favorite are definitely the armbands that you were talking about.
LISA:The cultural, the indigenous culture. Yeah. And it's
KAITY:And it's Odeno Shoney. It's really cool. We've seen a difference. So for Montana as an artist from, like, the previous studio he was at to this studio, And I think it really depends on the way you're marketing and who you're reaching out to in the community. But we've been very lucky that we've had indigenous people come from all over the place.
KAITY:Like, we've had clients that they originally live in Alberta. We've had clients that come from our other Hana Nisongan communities in, like, up upstate New York and stuff like that. So we're really glad that our reach is getting out there. Montana has a lot of different clients that come from Hison Reserve or other Ojibwe Reserves, and I think it's really nice to, one, be able to get something cultural, but then to also go into a place where they have that lived experience and knowledge too. Right?
KAITY:That's that it is ours and we identify with that. It's because I went to a couple different tattoo studios to try to get tattoos done and either the artist was really hard to work with because they just didn't have that knowledge of it. And so I think it's really cool too because Montana is not Hana Nisone so sometimes we get a lot of clients that come in and they want Hana Noshone specific. Right? So we are able to help him with that.
KAITY:Like a couple of clients want it, say, a wooden lacrosse stick. And we because we like, us as staff, so me and we have another staff member who helps Montana with all the booking and consultations, We were able to identify, like, who the person was in our community, that they are a lacrosse player, but they all that they say they are a goalie rather than a player. So we taught him traditional booty sticks are different, like, they look different if it's a goalie versus a player stick. You should go back and ask. So we're able to give a Yeah.
KAITY:Better quality of service to our clients too because we have that knowledge. Someone asked to put a gusto on like a skeleton, like a skull head. And we had that knowledge to tell Montana you need to find out what nation they're in because the different feathers are gonna determine what that is. Right? So it's really nice on us to have that and we're able to provide that extra and then that accountability too because you don't want to tattoo something that's on you for life and it's wrong.
KAITY:Yeah. And, we also try to tell them all the time too, this is just based on our own personal knowledge. You might come with us because some people will bring their, like, traditional words, like, in in their language too. Yeah. Right?
KAITY:And that's not something that we're always, like, the greatest on translating. So, like, we have some people that we know personally that we can ask. Other than that, you've gone to your resume.
LISA:Because there's accents on the letters in
KAITY:our language. Exactly. Especially if they're coming from a different community, just because we might write it a different way doesn't mean that theirs is wrong. Yeah. So because we have that knowledge too and we can go off of that, it's really nice that we're able to provide it in a comfortable and more culturally, I don't know, just like a good way.
KAITY:And that's I always try to come back to that because we are Haudenosaunee. That's part of our business model is doing things like with a good mind and in a good way and everything. So that's how we try to go about everything.
LISA:That's a good business model to have. Yeah. So with the cultural tattoos, the in the Haudenosaunee cultural tattoos, do you find that younger people or older people are getting them or just a mixture of every age now?
MONT:It's been a mixture of every age now.
LISA:Yeah?
MONT:Yeah. I've tattooed even a lot of 6 year old grandmas and stuff.
KAITY:Oh, yeah.
LISA:I had
KAITY:a lot of aunties come in.
LISA:Is there an age that you have to be to get a tattoo?
KAITY:Yes. So we go by the provincial standard here and we try to do that through across the board with our health and safety, all of our supplies. We make sure that it's from an accredited tattoo supplier and then all of our policies for our clients. So if you are wanting a if you're a minor, you have to be at least 16 years of age. And if you are 16 or 17, you have to have a parent or guardian come in with you.
KAITY:They have to we have consent forms and media consent forms as well. They have to sign that, but also they have to be here and present during the entire session. We have had some parents or adults try to leave, but we can't do that because health and safety, like, if something happens, say, we've had some clients who they get a little faint or anything like that, and they've actually fainted or passed out, we need to make sure, health and safety wise, that we have to call an ambulance or if anything is wrong with them, their parent and whoever is there responsible and just to make sure and safe and a good way. Other than that, if you're 18 plus, then you're good to go. You can sign for your own and Yeah.
LISA:So what other safety precautions come into play when you're tattooing?
MONT:I usually tell everybody that to have a nice a good meal before they come in and get a nice rest and good sleep.
KAITY:No drinking, no alcohol, you can't be breast feeding, you can't obviously can't be pregnant. We set a full consent and release form. We have, like, majority of our stuff all in there. We have had some clients that as they're reading it saying, oh, I I can't be breastfeeding. No, you can't.
KAITY:So now that we know that, I'm sorry, but you're gonna have to reschedule until another time because Montana is not willing to take that chance of whatever may transfer through. Other than that, especially at the alcohol part too because the alcohol part is really important and some people don't don't really think about that, but when you're drinking, your blood thins. So if you're getting a tattoo, you're at risk of bleeding out, like, a lot more and then just bleeding in general, a lot higher bleeding, like, amount, it's gonna be harder for him to give you the best tattoo that he can because it's gonna be hard to work on that design. You're not gonna be able to see it and just whatever trouble it is on there. So we also try to tell people that beforehand.
KAITY:But, also, if someone comes in and we can tell that maybe they're a little too hungover or anything like that, we have the right to tell them that we can't continue. It's for health and safety. Yeah. Other things that some people might not think about that we've had in the past, though, is we've had some clients who are on diets. So maybe they're on intermediate intermittent fasting.
KAITY:And what was another one? Keto.
LISA:Keto.
KAITY:And they passed out because of that because they just weren't getting the nutrients that they needed to get. And so that wasn't something that we were we don't ask people about their diets or anything like that, but it had come up after because they were I
LISA:didn't wanna diet. Yeah.
KAITY:They were not feeling well. So now, we have the knowledge to go Yeah. Forth and tell people if that's something you just need to be aware of that. And yeah, definitely a lot more safety than I think people think needs to go into it.
LISA:Oh, yeah. Like, I didn't know that you couldn't be breastfeeding and get a tattoo. Yeah. Wow. That's good that you have guidelines and standards and things like that.
LISA:Everything's you probably wear gloves when you're tattooing. Yeah. Yeah. Do you wear do you wear a mask when you're tattooing? Or
MONT:During the COVID, I was.
LISA:Oh, yeah. Mhmm. Yeah.
MONT:Or if I'm doing, like, someone's neck or something, I'll put a mask on.
LISA:Oh, yeah. Okay. And the person can put a mask on if they want to.
KAITY:Right? At any time they're able to. Even still now because even though we're not right into the COVID, like, as big as it was, And we always tell people that if they're more comfortable coming in right now, because it's still there. It's still a reality. And we have a couple of clients that come in and they're immunocompromised.
KAITY:So they wear a mask and if we usually will open a couple windows to make it, like, a little bit more filtered in here. But we also, like, will always ask them, like, if you feel more comfortable for us. So at some point, like, sometimes if depending on the client, like, we'll make sure we mask up before we walk in the room and everything just to make everyone comfortable. And then even off of that, like, trying to make people comfortable, like clients and stuff. Other tattoo studios, I know a lot.
KAITY:Like, I've always been told I couldn't bring anyone with me and sometimes and I've had to argue and me put my own foot down as the owner here. And I also think I come from that from a woman because the tattoo industry is very male dominated. And I've had to say it in a way to Montana and our other part time who is he's a male too. They were just like, I didn't think of it that way. And I was like, you wouldn't ever have to because that's just not your reality.
KAITY:It's not your situation. So, a couple times we've had very young women who come and they get tattoos in very precarious places, which are very trendy, like some that are down the sternum, so in between your breasts and stuff like that. You have to sit very exposed. I wanna make sure they're as comfortable as they can be when they're here. You can bring a parent with you.
KAITY:You can bring a friend with you. They can sit there with you the entire time because Montana is a male. We can leave the door open. We can close it if you're more comfortable. I'm trying to get a door with an actual, like, frost stick glass.
KAITY:So then that's another step to make sure that, like, safety is our utmost thing here. I worked in different community agencies, so I have that background in it too. But just to make sure that everyone feels as safe as possible, we've also had that comment and, like, reviews and stuff that were just a very friendly and inviting atmosphere and, like, family oriented. We've had some, young mothers come where they've had a tattoo booked for months and their daycare something came up or a babysitter came up. So we're like, no, it's okay.
KAITY:And I've had to watch a baby or something like that. Or we have a couple pictures with the artist and they're holding a little baby. Baby. And I think that's really cool and it's probably something that's very specific to us because I come from a very matriarchal society and I Yeah. Like I said, I model my business off of that.
KAITY:Right? So I'm just trying to put as much into it as we can.
LISA:Accommodate. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. For sure.
LISA:So in the boutique part, now what kinds of items do you sell in your boutique?
KAITY:Our end goal is to get it a 100 percent indigenous produced, owned, or made. Right now, I think we're probably at about 60% indigenous, so we either make this stuff ourselves, design it and produce it, or Montana, we sell his artwork in there. He's prints because he's an artist as well, fine artist. And other than that, we just started selling beadwork as well. That was a big request, and we couldn't find it's such a laborious job to do, like, any art especially, and so we really are supportive of the artist.
KAITY:A lot of that is really hard work to try to get as wholesale, which that's what we usually sell for or buy our products through as wholesale. So me and my mom actually just taught ourselves how to do beadwork so we could offer that for people just so then we didn't have to go and find an artist and then undercut them in their business. Right? Other than that, we always just try to promote other artists here, and we have other artists locally, and then we export or import internationally or not I would say internationally. We have some from, the United States and from Canada.
KAITY:So other indigenous owned products that we sell in the store come from brands such as Bee Yellow Tail, which I don't know if you know them, but they're pretty
LISA:Oh, yeah. I've heard of them.
KAITY:Yeah. They're amazing. They're on Instagram and Facebook. We have Urban Native Era, which their biggest product right now is the You Are on Native Land. The hats, they're shown online reservation dogs and stuff like that.
KAITY:We have Jack 59, which is a hair care product. They're Metis and indigenous owned from Alberta and a whole other list of artists. So that's we're trying to build up and build up our inventory there in our catalog. And in the future, we're hoping to have our own line of apparel. We have right now drinkware, home decor, and our beadwork.
KAITY:And, yeah, we've done apparel in the past, but we wanted to upgrade, like, the quality of it. So we've just been upgrading all of our supplies and everything. And, yeah.
LISA:Oh, and I see you have nice mugs here with you.
KAITY:Yeah. We try to go on. We're really lucky because we have our own in house artist right now. So with Montana, he's definitely a little busy where I can't get all the things I wish I could get from him. So we always try to think about growth and maybe bringing in more artists to do that.
KAITY:But, yeah, a a wide variety of things, I guess, we could
MONT:say that.
LISA:And what kind of things are you and your mom beading to sell?
KAITY:Right now, we're working on earrings. Uh-huh. My mom is really wanting to learn how to do medallions and stuff like that, but she literally just, what, within a month, I would say, the last month she's been doing it. As you leave today, we will I can show you our big rack. We have one whole rack out there.
KAITY:Oh, that's great. Yeah. Other than that, we sell things like candles. I'm trying to get soapstone carvings in here. We have different artists, like, paints, like, bean paints.
KAITY:So they're, like, actually handmade paint pigments and watercolours. That's from an indigenous company up in Manitoulin Island. They're called Beam Paints. And Yeah. We just Wow.
KAITY:I don't know. Pretty open. We try to do very unique things. I guess for our niche is try to go off of We play off of the theme of The Addams Family, which is what our name is. So, we're dark and creepy and whatever else like that.
KAITY:Mhmm. But anything that's just, like, cool and things that you can't find at a mall or anything like that. Personally, when we sat down and you're like, I just want it to be like we're visiting and stuff. When I tell people what I envisioned for the boutique is I grew up and me and my mom loved getting, like, Starbucks or coffee and, like, going to HomeSense or Winners. I kinda wanna be that same thing, but, like, for indigenous people and, like, local.
KAITY:I love when people, like, come here and they're just visiting with their family or their sisters or something, and they're just coming in here visiting and looking at all of our stuff. It's just really cool.
LISA:Yeah. For sure. Because it's social, and it's like visiting.
KAITY:It definitely and I try to put a very modern and contemporary spin on it and the things that we offer because we have a lot of craft stores here locally, but there were things that like like apparel and streetwear apparel and for the younger crowd, right, and more contemporary styles and stuff, it was very hard to find that unless we were, like, ordering it in and then paying all the shipping fees and stuff like that. So we go for those type of things, design wise and when we're looking at whatever brands and companies that we wanna bring into. Mhmm. Yeah. It's more just personal preference, I guess, because it's like majority of the things that I wanna buy for.
KAITY:Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. It's more just personal preference, I guess, because it's, like, majority of the things that I wanna buy for myself.
LISA:Yeah. That's probably how I'd be too. Yeah. Yeah. We're experienced shoppers.
KAITY:For sure.
LISA:Wow. That's like a lot of information to take in just with this podcast on tattooing. But I wanna say Yahweh to you both because I've learned a lot about tattooing. Now, I don't know if I'm gonna get my first tattoo yet before I leave. I might end up walking out of here with the whole sleeve.
LISA:Okay. So is there anything else you'd like to add before we wrap up?
KAITY:Yeah. I mean, I know that was a lot to cover and everything, but honestly, it was just like the bare minimum like, not bare minimum, but just like scratching the surface for us. Tattooing is one of the only things that we do. Montana on the artist side does a lot more than tattooing. I don't know if he wants to mention any of that.
MONT:Yeah. I do a lot of original paintings like watercolors, acrylics, oils. I've done logos for other small businesses.
LISA:Wow. That is so interesting because when you say to someone, oh, what do you wanna be when you grow up? Or what what kind of jobs could I get with my talents? Sometimes people only think tunnel vision of one thing. You don't have tunnel vision.
LISA:Like, you do a lot with your artistry. Yeah.
MONT:I think at some points, I just had tunnel vision, but I think over the years, I just
LISA:Expanded.
MONT:Expanded and just started doing everything.
LISA:Yeah. Yeah. So if somebody came in this is something I wanted to ask earlier. I think it came popped back into my head. If somebody came in with a tattoo tattoo that they drew themselves, say they're an artist, they drew it and but they're not a tattoo person.
LISA:So you could you do that for them? Yeah. Their own design?
MONT:I've done that a number of times or if they've bought another design from someone else. And I just would get, like, a screenshot from them, tell them that they had got permission and stuff.
KAITY:Oh, yeah. So as the studio, we do background vetting of all of the designs if they're not from Montana because as, I don't know if you're aware, but there have been so many different controversies in the indigenous art
LISA:There have been. Yes.
KAITY:Especially most recently, so we're very rare of that. And Montana, I think coming from it as not just a person who tattoos, but also as an artist, we are always coming from those values and that mindset too and those ethics. Right? Yeah. So if someone does come to us with something that is in Montana's and if it's from anywhere.
KAITY:Right? If it's a screenshot, Montana will say, okay, but I need to make it my own or put my own twist on it. If they send us something that if that's specifically want what they want, then we'll say, okay, did you draw this? If it's not their own design, they can't prove that it's their own design or it doesn't have their own artist signature on it. If it has someone else and they'll we get them to tell us who that is and then we go further than that, you have to show us permission to use it as a tattoo artist because we've ran into it where some community members and not just from here, but just in general, like, clients under the misunderstanding that if they buy an art piece of art that they own to do anything that they want with it, and that's not necessarily true either, you have to have permission to use that to get it tattooed.
KAITY:Right? So, like, you couldn't just buy a piece in our print from anyone and then go and get a tattoo from it. You would have to have permission from that artist Yeah. To also get it tattooed. So, we also make sure to include that in.
KAITY:It's hard. Some of the clients get a little upset with us because we're doing that. I think after it's all said and done and they know that it's something that we do across the board for everyone, they're okay with it. But at first, some people, I think, just a little off like offensive or defensive You
LISA:try to protect the artist and their artistry.
KAITY:For sure. Yeah. 1st and foremost is always about the artist and their protection and stuff, and we've had other artists reach out to us and thank us for that. We've had some people where they brought out our designs. Me as the social media person when I'm posting it, sometimes right now, I'm posting tattoos that we've had that aren't, like, they were from the summer to, like, October, so that's a long time.
KAITY:I have to go back and ask Montana, okay, who was this art? Was it from you? If it's not from you, who was the design? So we have to go back and do all that too to make sure. Right?
KAITY:Sometimes I'll leave the caption blank if I really don't know and I'm not around Montana, like, if I'm working off-site or anything like that. And we've been very lucky that we've built some very informal relationships with certain artists, especially in the community. You'll see recurring artists that are used from some of our clients, and they're very helpful. The world will be, like, oh, this was one of mine. Thank you so much.
KAITY:And then I go and update that that caption that I left blank Mhmm. To credit who it is originally.
LISA:So it's good to build those strong partnerships with other artists.
KAITY:For sure.
LISA:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because you don't sign your name on a tattoo. Right?
KAITY:Yeah. No. Definitely not.
LISA:Like you do on a painting.
KAITY:Yeah. And so it's been nice to have that. Yeah.
LISA:Oh, great. So let's wrap it up. This has been such a great visit with both of you. I've learned about tattooing. And, I don't know, Eric, should we get a tattoo before we leave?
KAITY:Yeah. Nyawa, thank you for coming to visit and come get a tattoo anytime.
LISA:Okay. Let's meet again on the next This has been the the Road to Your Name podcast series. There are 10 episodes in this podcast series. Let's meet again on the next episode. If you would like to learn more about our organization, Aboriginal Legal Services, and the programs and services we provide, please visit us at our website, www dotaboriginallegal.ca.
LISA:And if you feel inclined and would like to make a donation, you can click on the word donate located at the top of the homepage of our website. You can also visit us on Facebook at Road to Your Name. This has been the Ohate Negasuna, The Road to Your Name podcast series. You. You.
LISA:You. You. You.