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Ever wanted a reliable way to test yourself or others for the kind of wisdom that only comes from experience? CJ & The Duke discuss overlapping product & market knowledge to reveal 6 areas that demonstrate ServiceNow wisdom. You can use these areas as interview questions or self assessment.
Authentic, Authoritative, Unapologetic ServiceNow commentary by Cory "CJ" Wesley and Robert "The Duke" Fedoruk
[00:00:00] Duke: Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of CJ and the duke as always. I am your co-host Robert, the duke Fedoruk.
[00:00:06] CJ: I am Corey CJ Wesley.
[00:00:08] Duke: This episode is brought to you by me and my upcoming course hired the definitive guide to profiles that when service now jobs go to www.theduke.digital and sign up for notifications on when the content is released.
All right, Corey, what are we talking about?
[00:00:25] CJ: duke today. We are testing for wisdom.
[00:00:28] Duke: Woo testing for wisdom.
[00:00:30] CJ: Oh, yeah, man, this one's going to be nice. Let me tell you, because we're going to be giving concrete examples on how you can look at your own skillset or evaluate the skillset of others and determine where they fit in the market and where they fit, where you fit, maybe on the path to expertise.
[00:00:49] Duke: Yeah, cause they listen, Corey and I are completely bought into certs. Right. We recognize that it's a market need. how it fulfills that need is I think what a lot of people discuss, but certs or no certs. How do you know if you've got that person? Who's got the experience because if you have a cert, you can have somebody who has it and maybe doesn't really have the field experience to really, really put it to use.
And on the flip side, you got people that don't have. But if you just interviewed them And, ask them the right questions, you would know, that they're legit, real ones. Right?
[00:01:19] CJ: Right.
and you know, what was funny to duke is that the longer the person has been in the ecosystem, the less likely assert is to tell you about what they actually know.
[00:01:29] Duke: I hear that. but again, we're not anti cert by any stretch of the imagination, but it's to know if someone's certified or not is not the same question as is this person a seasoned resource and to something that you can't even do that with like years of experience anymore, I think, you know.
[00:01:45] CJ: No. I agree with you, right? Like, you know, again, test him for wisdom, right? Like that's, that's the idea behind, behind this show. And it takes a little bit more than just seeing a certification. It takes a little bit more than just having a conversation. Sometimes it's the combination of all of these things.
And sometimes it's, you know, more than that too.
[00:02:02] Duke: and I want to lean into the word we chose here. Wisdom as opposed to knowledge. Right. It's just like wisdom. Is those things, those hard fought lessons. The, oh my God. If you only, if you listen to me now, you will save yourself so much pain and torment, or it's the gray hairs on the beard. It's the you
[00:02:20] CJ: application of knowledge.
[00:02:21] Duke: right? It's the application of knowledge and it's different from knowledge. It's a different class of knowledge maybe, but we use the term wisdom very intentionally let's say,
[00:02:30] CJ: Agreed.
[00:02:31] Duke: Okay. So we are going to have links to you, an image that we think really typifies this, but since it's a podcast, we don't have images. , so the way we define wisdom is if you took everything you knew. About a product on service. Now, any process or technology you take, everything you could possibly know about it.
And you overlaid that with everything you know about the market. There are areas where they do not overlap. And there's areas on the product side that are different from the market and there's areas where the market is not met by the product. And so we've broken the episode into two sections. One is about product and the other is about market.
And we're going to talk to you about areas where they don't overlap, because if you know all these areas together, then you are why.
[00:03:24] CJ: Absolutely. And in the startup. Sometimes they call this product market fit, right? And once you achieve product market fit, you can just throw gas on it and you can accelerate through the stratosphere. I believe the same thing, in the service now ecosystem is that when you achieve both of these things, with the, understanding of, you know, the overlay of product with the overlay of market, right.
And you understand like what parts you're excelling and what parts that you need to improvement. And you kind of put all of that together, so that. that you understand, how all of these things come together, then you ha like, like, like you just said, dude thing you're wise.
Right. So, you know, I'll kick this off. We're going to talk about fringe use cases. and so this is one of the aspects of product that is very, very interesting to me because I always find. Fringe use cases for the service now instance, and not only just the instance as a whole, right? Not only just the platform as a whole, but also some of the applications that get built on it.
my favorite thing to point out here is data certification by default data certification only works against a CMDB table, right? So all it is designed to do certification against CIS that's like the. However, you can take that filter off, right. And you can put it against practically any table that's inside of service now.
And I was actually just having a conversation with a client today, and we were talking about doing data certification against skills and skill levels. One of the things , that they're looking to do is they're running in the customer service sector. And they're really trying to make everything focused on who has the skill to handle whatever ticket that is.
Right. And in, in some ways that they're, they're trying to pivot, the system, you know, is really on the fringe of how service now is designed to run, but as how their organization runs. And so, thinking about and understanding how the system works, how service now works, the applications that are available and what you can do with them.
Like again, this data certification module, we're building out a use case for this. We're basically turned into the skill levels, which was a top-down functionality where a team lead talked to, a group of, their reports and say, Hey, okay, well, let's go down a survey.
What's your skill? INAX, are you skilled in X? What level would you assign to that? And we're turning it into that into like a self-service sort of, product
[00:05:45] Duke: when I think about fringe use cases, I think about places on the product where. service now thought this is what the market needed, but the market doesn't need that or terribly few places in the market do. And I think at least with my limited ITBM deployment experiences, I get the feeling that something like assigning resource plans to project task.
is probably fringe. Like I think most of the people that do use resource management and service now are probably don't have the time or energy to manage it to the project task level. They're probably just saying like, we need the following resources on this project and not isolating it to project tasks themselves.
[00:06:23] CJ: Yeah. Yeah, right.
[00:06:25] Duke: Yeah.
You know what I mean? But it's like now it's built into the platform and it's forever there, and, and there's gotta be a diamond doesn't, but I'm kind of just like wiggling on, on,
[00:06:35] CJ: No, but that's, that's a good one, man, because I think sometimes there's a lot of good intention behind some of the features that get really, really deep in the woods and the weeds. And I think, you know, maybe one to five, 10% of the folks will use those features that are deep in the weeds and thinking, man, this is the best thing.
Well, I think most of the target audiences not looking to get quite that deep because the deeper you get, the more you have to maintain it, right? The more you have to use, like it just starts to take more and more time. And, from my experience, no one's primary job is using the service now, platform, unfortunately, I mean, it's ours when we are building it, but these, everyone is using service now to offer.
Whatever their primary job function or goals or responsibilities are. So they want to use the system only in as much as they're getting value from it. And they want to kind of minimize the amount of time that they have to put into the system to get that.
[00:07:33] Duke: Yeah, if you can identify within your process area within your tech, here's a feature where a customer is like, oh, how do I use that.
And you can say like, you probably don't need to, unless blank you now have with.
[00:07:50] CJ: Right.
[00:07:50] Duke: you should be taking notes on this Within your own, make your own, your own knowledge base. But when you put yourself in that position where you're finding yourself saying, well, most people don't think about it that way. So this is kind of a fringe use case that we don't use very often in service. Now don't do this unless you do this, write that down.
Um, okay. So the next eight minutes in, and we got like five more to do. The next product base. Point where the market and the product don't overlap is on experimental features. So this is the classic a, you know, it would be awesome. Like I think the market needs this and maybe the market hasn't explicitly told me, but I have enough spidey sense, to think it through.
And we have enough resources to roll the dice on it. And so it's features that get deployed. Without the market backing and they're purely experimental,
[00:08:42] CJ: Yeah.
[00:08:43] Duke: or maybe they, they know the market needs it, but they don't know how to address it. And so it's just like roll the dice.
[00:08:49] CJ: You know, so I agreed. Right? it's instills features that, that pop up and you think, man, I was kind of cool, I guess, and you struggle to come up with a use case for it. in the overall scheme of, that module or the platform or the workflow of the business, right.
And you think, man, if they'd only just tweaked it this way or that way or something like that, then this would kind of be good or it's also, it could also be those features. W what were they smoking when they built this? I mean, you know, and you take a step back and you think, man, that, okay, so the tech is cool behind this.
I just don't know when I'd ever use it. And, and I'm drawing a blank on some of these guys, but I know that I've, that I come across these weekly
[00:09:34] Duke: I think some of their early machine learning and AI stuff, they knew everybody is interested in AI and machine learning generally. And it was just which use case to apply that. And so we had a bunch of features if you think, a year or two ago, like that was the only conversation in town was how can we get AI to do all the assignment of your tickets for you?
[00:09:55] CJ: Yeah,
[00:09:55] Duke: Right. You remember that? And it was kind of like, I would say it was a very educated, I don't even want to use the word. Yes. But basically service now didn't have the feature and they rolled the feature out to see. will this work, will people buy into this? So if you're the type of person that can identify a feature in service now that is not a fringe use case, it's different than that, right?
Maybe it works just fine, but it's a net new feature that doesn't have a wide market adoption. Now you're an experimental feature line. And if you can identify those, you are wise.
[00:10:31] CJ: absolutely. That's a good way of putting it duke. when you can identify these features and you can identify either how to avoid them or how to use them, right? Like that, that defines the wisdom, that we're looking for, for you to leave. a major implementations, right.
Or minor implementations too, for that matter, you know, when you get dropped into some of these projects, you're, people are relying on your wisdom to guide them through, to get them to the finish line here where we can actually, say we have a successful deployment.
Right. So, you know, knowing the, the one that we talked about previously to fringe use cases, and now the experimental. knowing having a solid understanding of, those categories, you know, defines the wisdom of knowing the service now platform and, and know, and having service now platform wisdom is how you create successful implementations.
[00:11:18] Duke: All right. So there's one last product. how do we even just say this point of no overlap
[00:11:24] CJ: Yeah.
[00:11:25] Duke: the market and the product, this, this place does not get the market it's okay. And that is immature features, these are things that everybody knows we need it, but you can basically stay on the outside and say like, we know like other products do this.
We have to do that. This is essential to the process to work. but it's not implemented in a way that is mature enough for all the use cases yet. And I would say my best example of this, which is fixed now by the way. but if we go back to like prepare us the idea that timecards were basically the indivisible unit was a week.
And why might I be using timecards? Maybe? Did you billing on my labor? How do people bill on labor monthly? How does a week split a month? Never evenly.
[00:12:13] CJ: true.
[00:12:14] Duke: So there was always this idea that. I can't really do monthly billing because I can't divide a timecard into it's days. And so it was like, from my perspective, it was like, yes, we need time cards, but we also need timecard days, which came up , Paris, I think,
and it was awesome. I love it. I love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. But prior to that, it was an immature feature.
[00:12:35] CJ: Oh, I got one for you. This one.
[00:12:36] Duke: Oh, tell me.
[00:12:37] CJ: Agent workspace.
[00:12:39] Duke: Hmm. How has that immature
[00:12:41] CJ: So and a lot of this is fixed now too much credit to service now is that I love the way that they, they practice a continuous improvement. Right. you know, they kind of introduce a, a new feature and get it out there. They want you to play with it a little bit and then they steadily improve it over the next, maybe three to four, product cycles until it's like really, T uh, but initially when agent work workspace was introduced, the ability to customize it, to get the most out of it just was not there.
And, even over time, like it got better and better, but some of the things that were missing from it were, relatively small, but, annoying enough, because you can do them readily in the. Right. There were, aesthetics, right. That, agent workspace, in my opinion, was designed to improve some of the customization features that are readily available on the platform side.
Just weren't available there in the agent workspace, like changing, some of the contrast or some of the, visuals on the actual workspace itself. Yeah, everything is just kind of shade of gray
[00:13:42] Duke: Yeah.
[00:13:43] CJ: without a whole lot of contrast. and the ability to, to actually make those changes, didn't show up until a couple of releases ago.
I think maybe it was, Quebec where the, uh, CSS variables were, um, exposed so that you can kind of go in and tweak , , the colors and contrast and such around the agent workspace stuff that you could do in platform. previously you can't, you couldn't do it in the workspace now, but you can now.
So I think that's one of those things, right. Where, you know, I think they got it out there and they, put it into your mind, right. That this is something that's going to be cool. We, you just got to bear with us as we can.
[00:14:16] Duke: And like, I, by no means use, immature as a denigration of service now. Like, I don't mean it as a, as a negative because that's how features grow half the time. get something working and then build up on it. Rome wasn't built in a day. Right. But sometimes the features have to release immature, so you know, which way to mature it or which things like, you know what I mean?
There's, it might be three or four different ways it's immature, but which way are you going to improve it? First? It matters. So,
[00:14:45] CJ: and you need that usage, right? Sometimes you need that real world usage so that, you know, like where to prioritize, right? Like you can't build all these things in, in a vacuum because you might build out, you might spend, dozens and dozens of developer hours on, on places in the product that nobody's ever actually giving.
[00:15:02] Duke: if you had total mastery over the product, . Total mastery over the product, which you can do in a vacuum, right. You would understand it's fringe use cases, it's experimental features and it's immature features.
[00:15:14] CJ: And before we wrap on immature features and product, it doesn't want to say one, one other thing on this too. knowing what parts of the product are immature compared to other parts allows you to recommend. to give advice to your clients on where they need to avoid right now. Right?
You can tell them, Hey, I get that. You, you think this is really cool. I'm telling you right now, it's immature. And you're going to run into a lot of, a lot of issues. We're going to have, do a lot of customization in order to really get the value out of this. We should wait. And that saves me.
[00:15:43] Duke: I think these three points we brought out, you couldn't get to them unless you had experience in the market. So you need The unique. The market overlap in order for these things to become obvious to you. So if you're interviewing people for a certain, like maybe the ITBM person or the SecOps person or an architect, ask them these kinds of questions, tell me about something in this area that is currently immature.
And if they have spent enough time in the market, they will know this. You see? So that's this whole idea of overlap and where do the things not overlap? That is. All right,
[00:16:20] CJ: Really.
[00:16:21] Duke: so now let's move on to the market. How do you know somebody has been in the market is they will know the areas in the market that don't overlap with the product.
Corey hit them with the first one.
[00:16:33] CJ: Yeah. So the first one is going to be unmet use cases, right? These are going to be, areas in the market where the product doesn't have a really good solution. as a person who is building out specific verticals in service now, right?
Like you need to have a certain level of market experience in order to effectively build those things out for your clients, right? Like, so you should be able to know what parts of the market. correspond to, to the, to the service now product and what parts of the market are being missed by the service now product that's the definition there of the unmet use cases, right?
The parts of the market that service that the service now product isn't necessarily tailored to, or, putting forth a really good solution for right.
[00:17:19] Duke: and when I think about unmet use cases, in some ways it can be indistinguishable from immature features. right.
It's kind of like, I can think about the, timecard days paradigm of a couple of years back as an unmet use case. Like I want to use time cards, but I want to use time cards in a way to allow me to do monthly billing.
[00:17:39] CJ: And then, and so you see that as an immature feature on the service now platform side, but it's also a situation where the product is not meeting one of the use cases of the market. Yeah. So, I mean, those can be two sides to the same coin. But at the same time, they could also be, situations where there is just no feature present, right.
For that market use case.
[00:18:02] Duke: I got a great one and it's, not a new unmet use case at all. So it won't overlap with our next point. But, um, so where do I start? Somebody just called me and they said, they need, whoa, where do I start? Do I start at the incident form? Or do I start at the catalog? What if it's already isn't incident, it should be a catalog item, where do I start? And what if it's the wrong thing? a task table. Everything is a task at the end of the day, but sometimes the tasks are in the wrong table, most commonly requests in the incident. But what if somebody puts in, you know, we got 55 step process for onboarding and what was somebody like, writes that in an incident? if they call me to start onboarding somebody? like halfway through an incident, by the time I realized there's a catalog item for it.
[00:18:50] CJ: Oh, yeah, yeah,
[00:18:52] Duke: how do we ensure the right task first? But that's unmet.
[00:18:57] CJ: yeah, it is right. And the only thing that I can think about, they actually meet that use cases, knowledge, right? Like knowledge base articles or in training. And I just don't think that's efficient enough, to be honest with you. , I think there should be some intelligence in the platform.
You know, in a situation like that, that directs you to where you need to go. And I think we have a little bit of that, right? Like, you know, um, the type of his search. And if you, you know, if you're in an incident or whatever, and you put in the right key word, initial surface, you know, a catalog item or, or a knowledge base article or something like that, that kind of points you in the right direction.
I just feel like it should be better than that. I feel. We've had that same paradigm for the last 10 years or so, or maybe five years. I'm not sure. I'm not quite sure. and that if that's the best we can do right now, that we're not doing our best enough.
[00:19:48] Duke: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:19:49] CJ: So, you know yeah. So situations like that, right? Like I'm at use cases, that's a big one, you know, and being able to talk intelligently about those things, you know, really does display your wisdom for on the platform. and that's a differentiator,
[00:20:03] Duke: Well, it's also where he can build Like not,
accelerators. Okay.
[00:20:11] CJ: we're going to beat that. Beep that word out in post.
[00:20:15] Duke: But have a package, right? How, how did it cause like my first ITBM implementation timecard days was a big deal. we knew we had to build a custom and I built a custom, but I also stored that code away for the next time it would happen. And then a month later they released Paris with timecard days.
But, but you see what I mean? Right? Like you just dash where you build a library, that's where you can build your, brand's unique. Best practices or, the things that you've identified with your awesome amounts of field experience, building a library of solutions to meet the unmet use cases.
[00:20:49] CJ: Oh man, I got another one and I won't belabor this a little bit cause we've been talking about this particular point for, for a little while now, but you know, the, the AQI functionality and service. Right. Like that is something I think that was widely requested by a lot of people.
And then when, when they got, it they were sorely underwhelmed by the implementation of it. Right. AQI article quality index, I believe is what is,
[00:21:10] Duke: oh, so like a knowledge thing.
[00:21:13] CJ: is a knowledge thing. Yeah. think of it as a second set of eyes, right? The go through a checklist to make sure your knowledge article meets some predefined.
Um, and, and that criteria is custom, right? It could be whatever it is that you want it to be, you can be, and it can be as long or as short as you want. It could just be three points, right. That you, you know, did you, did you, identify the audience, is this grammatically correct?
And there are no misspellings, and is the valid to date set correctly. Right? It could be as simple as something like that. or it could be as complex as. You know, a whole list of things, of criteria that you wanted to ensure the rigor around knowledge articles, like something like, did they include any third party models and, collateral, is there a video attached?
Is there, does the video have a voiceover? You know what I mean? Like it can be really, as deep or , as narrow as you want it to be, but this is a really cool feature. The implementation of it. immature feature. and, and because it's an immature feature, it doesn't meet the use case of the market.
Right. It's really painful to use. You can customize it and I have done that and that, and that makes it a lot more valuable. But that, again, you know, highlights wisdom, right.
[00:22:21] Duke: saying that there's overlap and the things that don't overlap on our overlap drawing, where people can't see.
[00:22:31] CJ: Yes.
[00:22:32] Duke: All right. Let's, let's jump on the next one.
[00:22:34] CJ: Well, yeah, absolutely.
[00:22:35] Duke: So again, we're talking about where the market is in relation to the product. We know everything we need to know about the product, but when you take it to the market, something else happens and that is emerging trends. stuff, the product wasn't designed to do, but the market is very quickly moving towards, at a pace faster than the developers go.
[00:22:53] CJ: Oh yeah. There's a lot of that out there.
[00:22:56] Duke: It's the tale of 2019. Isn't it like.
[00:22:59] CJ: Yeah. Seriously.
[00:23:00] Duke: 2020, rather, I should say
[00:23:02] CJ: Well, the part of the 19th was a part of life now. No, it was all 20 man. Like I've just felt like the last couple of years I'm stretched into a decade.
[00:23:09] Duke: Yeah. Let's how you know, you're old. Right. The last three years are all kind of, that was like one year.
[00:23:14] CJ: Yeah, exactly. Right. So yeah, back in, back in 18,
[00:23:19] Duke: That was last month, right?
[00:23:23] CJ: who knows, you know, I stopped counting after a little while.
So obviously COVID is the thing, right? That we can't look past. And when we, when we start talking about emerging trends, right. And I think, you know, this is one of those interesting parts. Why feel like service now really got. with COVID going on and with, folks being working from home and one in the transition back into work and, you know, making an, a prime in a primary focus being around.
And ensuring, everyone who are going to be in common spaces, Are, you know, healthy to the, to the greatest extent possible. Right. with these things at the time, too, especially in 2020 pre vaccination and, you know, as COVID was emerging and everything was felt like it was changing day to day, you know, service now introduce a whole suite of.
to kind of jump on this emerging trend and really set up customers who were, you know, going to be managing people in person, giving them the tools to do so.
[00:24:18] Duke: COVID was just like the ultimate emerging trend. I dunno if there's anything he can beat that. I mean, thank goodness we have service now, the corporate culture that could take something like that and turn it around, by the way. Didn't we do an episode on that.
Like what does it take to turn around a big, important app in a hurry?
[00:24:33] CJ: we did. That was one of my favorites. Actually, we should revisit that one.
[00:24:37] Duke: Got to put it in the notes. Yeah. We're going to put the look in the description below. We have an episode where we talked about how do you turn on a dime and deploy something big, fast, like service now did with, with the COVID response apps. We started off with like four super, super simple ones, but now there's like how many other, other due to like a dozen
[00:24:54] CJ: Yes, there's quite a few, I don't know the exact number, but I know there's a bunch and it's a very robust suite now.
[00:25:00] Duke: I will bet you SecOps And vulnerability management apps are going to get all kinds of. New maturity because of emerging trends, you know?
[00:25:10] CJ: And as they should.
[00:25:12] Duke: Yeah. Yeah. So here we are, again, if you can talk about unmet use cases in the market, And you can talk about emerging trends in the market that haven't been fulfilled yet you are talking from a place of seasoned wisdom, cause you must have been in the market with the product to understand this.
[00:25:28] CJ: Yeah. And even further to that too, it speaks to you. to your intellect, and the ability to process information, right. Which are both still important to you. we don't talk about, those things because we assume that anyone who's, who's getting into this business and is doing the work and is proving capable of doing it work right.
Has the, uh, you know, the, the natural, talent and skill level necessary to do it. You know, there are some folks who, you know, not everyone has to create it, with the same level of, of natural skill and ability and talent, right? So there are going to be some folks who exceed others.
Right? And, being on top of this thing, this, and being able to express this wisdom well for your clients, this is one of the things that can set.
[00:26:09] Duke: with the last one, Corey.
[00:26:11] CJ: Deviation from the norm. So this one's pretty awesome. And I'm going to take this one in a different direction a little bit, right? So when I think about deviation from the norm, I think about the perspective of, if I'm sitting down with someone and I'm trying to judge this service now knowledge skill, and with.
I don't necessarily want it to hear the things that everyone else is going to say. and so I look at the market as in sort of the same perspective, right? When I'm sitting down as an expert in the market, or as the market, there are parts of the market that deviate from that base.
And knowing those edge cases. Yeah. Maybe that's a good way of putting it, knowing those edge cases, is a really high quality signal, for wisdom, right? Because anyone can know the 80% and I shouldn't say anyone, but a lot of people can know the 80%, but that remaining 20% where the market deviates from, basic stuff that you can read after one or two articles or, you know, a, a small.
That that is what really defines the wisdom is it's really shows how, like how in depth you understand the market and how much expertise you really have.
[00:27:20] Duke: When I look at deviation from norm, I think about there's the reality that we crave and the reality that is. And, you know, we always talk about, oh, it's best practice to do it this way or that way. Or, or common practice even to do it this way or that way, but sometimes you just land somewhere and they're like, no, we do a different, oh, but best practice.
No, we don't care. It can be bad or good. It could be good in that. They've optimized something that's unique to them. back when I worked for a big media and advertising company and they had some like serious white glove, like repel down the side of a building smashed. attack helicopter commando teams for their service desk.
Like, projector down, go, go, go, go, go, go. if the projector was down, that was a multimillion dollar deal that they might lose on, on an ad campaign. So everything was super white glove. So it wasn't about this like call deflection, like they didn't want to deflect the calls.
They wanted to make sure they could deploy the SWAT team wherever they needed to. And so in that sense, they deviate from norm. They don't care what the best practices, but it could also be bad. Like, I've seen a customer that did financials, let's say a unique way. And it was by their own admission, we inherited this.
It's not how we would build it, but everything has been built on top of it. So don't like the look of the tree that the tree house is built on. It's kind of too bad. You just gotta, you just gotta deal. And so deviation from norm it can be good and it can be bad, but it's those places where. People work differently sometimes
[00:29:00] CJ: yeah,
[00:29:01] Duke: and you cannot change it. You will not change it. Kick and scream all you want. It's just like the decision was made before you ever got here.
[00:29:07] CJ: And you know what, taking that into account and then applying it. the service now instance, and knowing what places on the platform can account for that deviation and what places where it's going to be a lot harder to account for it, I think is a really good attribute of wisdom, one of those things that you should be testing for. And one of those things that I think the notes and underscores.
[00:29:28] Duke: it's just, I mean, it's still a kind of overlaps with the unmet use cases and the immature features too. Like it can manifest in any of those spheres, but , we keep saying wisdom because. That's where you have to use every tool in the toolbox to make it so that the customer comes out with the outcomes that they want, because it's just like, okay, well we need financial reporting.
And guess what? We have custom tables for the tracking of our financials. This is our reality. Now, what are you going to do about it? And that might mean writing an insane script include, it might mean building custom table. It might mean all kinds of different things. You've grown there and where you can say I had to build it this way, even though it wasn't best practice, being able to identify those two things, AI built it.
And B I know it wasn't best practice or CA or, or common practice, but I did it anyway. And if you can identify that you've got wisdom.
[00:30:23] CJ: Yeah, right? Like is the difference between building something outside of best practices, because you don't know how and doing it because it was intentional to make, to meet the use case that deviated from the norm.
So you had no choice.
[00:30:36] Duke: Yes. Yes. That two times at.
[00:30:41] CJ: Right. Like, I mean, it's all about intentionality and, and, you know, again, race, all of this, you know, all of what we've been saying right. Has been leading up to, the application of all the skills and talents that you have in such a way that proves your understanding, not just of the platform, but also of your client's use cases. Right? So they're the. that market might be just one client. That market might be, a number of enterprises or businesses or what have you. but having that understanding of, how to apply your skills and your talents to service now to service your client in a way that, meets their needs.
That's the difference between the paper on the certification and the ink that you use, the right.
[00:31:27] Duke: , it's almost a difference between like book smart and street smart, right?
[00:31:30] CJ: Yeah.
[00:31:31] Duke: you can know everything there is to know from docs, from looking at the data structure from examining it in your PDI, but you don't know which of those things are, fringe experimental or immature until you've been in the. and if you're coming in from the market side, let's say you're an unseasoned engagement manager, right? if you haven't got enough of the product knowledge, but you've been in the market, but you won't know what pieces of the product aren't meeting common use cases and what emerging trends are coming out, that we should be building solutions for.
And then how do I tell if this customer is in best practices are deviating from the norm. So knowing the market and knowing the product produces these kinds of wisdoms, and so. A use this in your job interviews when you're interviewing people for different service now positions and B use it for yourself.
So, you know, you're there, right? We always talk, know your worth right? From my, video library. However many times certified, you are take each of those search. And in each of these six areas, you can look at them in the description below. if you can write stuff down for your process area for each of those things, you know, you've at least achieve some wisdom in that area.
And that's all I got on that.
[00:32:40] CJ: Amen. That's a good place to wrap because I think you summed it all up. this has been a really interesting topic for me. I, I really think, there's not a whole lot out there where we're trying to quantify, like how do you know what you know, and how do you convey that to other people?
And then from the flip side, how do they know what you know, and how do they understand if that's a good fit? I think we've done a good job of summing that up here. Like in some of the ways that folks can, try to dig into and get, understand that that knowledge you have and determine whether or not that knowledge crosses the line over into wisdom and not,
[00:33:13] Duke: All right. Corey, if people want to get in touch with you, how would they do.
[00:33:16] CJ: oh man, I'm over on LinkedIn, you can find me a Corey Wesley. , you can also catch me@atakevoyant.com, where, you know, we do everything.
[00:33:24] Duke: And you can reach me@wwwdottheduke.digital. I do everything from career coaching to, , freelance architecture. And, , I have an upcoming course, which is hired the definitive guide to profiles that when service now jobs hope to see you soon.
[00:33:38] CJ: All right. Bye-bye.
[00:33:39] Duke: Bye-bye.