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Join feminist coaches Taina Brown and Becky Mollenkamp for casual (and often deep) conversations about business, current events, politics, pop culture, and more. We’re not perfect activists or allies! These are our real-time, messy feminist perspectives on the world around us.
This podcast is for you if you find yourself asking questions like:
• Why is feminism important today?
• What is intersectional feminism?
• Can capitalism be ethical?
• What does liberation mean?
• Equity vs. equality — what's the difference and why does it matter?
• What does a Trump victory mean for my life?
• What is mutual aid?
• How do we engage in collective action?
• Can I find safety in community?
• What's a feminist approach to ... ?
• What's the feminist perspective on ...?
Becky Mollenkamp (00:00.607)
Hi, I have an idea today.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:02.409)
You look so proud.
Becky Mollenkamp (00:05.535)
I feel proud even though it's just you're gonna be like that was your idea, but here's my thought We'll do a little grab bag kind of episode where I'm gonna go through What's trending on threads today and we'll see which of the things sound interesting to talk about That way I'm a little bit of everything Should I start with the thing that's heavy or should we start light and then go back to the thing that's heavy?
Taina Brown she/hers (00:09.219)
You
Taina Brown she/hers (00:19.502)
Okay, let's do it. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:27.439)
let's start late. Let's start late. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (00:30.079)
Alright, so first up, Justin Bieber releases a highly acclaimed album. Lots of people are talking about Justin Bieber's new album. Have you listened?
Taina Brown she/hers (00:39.796)
No, I saw that he was releasing new music like last week. I think I saw that on TikTok. I didn't realize it was coming out so soon.
Becky Mollenkamp (00:48.285)
I guess it's out. I haven't listened. Don't care. But I have heard lots of 20 something ladies in various places discussing it when I was getting blood drawn. Actually, the nurses who were all quite young were all excitedly talking about Justin Bieber's new album. And it surprised me a little because I was like, do people still like is he still a thing? Do people care? I felt like he'd fallen away and was basically. Yeah, and kind of just becoming known as Haley Bieber's husband.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:59.488)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:06.626)
Yeah.
of this right guys?
Taina Brown she/hers (01:14.542)
Are they still together? I thought I saw somewhere where they were like, up.
Becky Mollenkamp (01:17.873)
I don't know. Should see this may be the problem with talking about trending topics is I'll have no clue.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:21.358)
No! We can't keep up, we have no idea what's going on.
Becky Mollenkamp (01:25.407)
Well, we'll skip Justin Bieber. Well, we mentioned basically our thoughts are, OK, we haven't listened, but more power to him, I guess. Right. OK, so what about the Fantastic Four, the new movie First Steps? It's the reason I wanted to discuss this one is because I don't know if you've seen any of the coverage of the red carpet or blue carpet. I think it was with Pedro Pascal. I know I don't. I think I just want to keep hammering away at you until you finally admit that he's amazing.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:33.237)
Yeah, yeah, I guess.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:52.766)
You
Taina Brown she/hers (01:56.504)
Listen, listen, I don't disagree that he's amazing as a human being. He seems like an amazing human being, like for sure, for sure. I don't think he's ugly, like he's an attractive specimen.
Becky Mollenkamp (02:00.959)
Okay.
Becky Mollenkamp (02:09.215)
Obviously he's not ugly. would be, would have, you've watched him, I've been saying he's ugly.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:17.888)
He's just not my type.
Becky Mollenkamp (02:19.039)
So does personality not like go for me, I guess personality goes so far and the fact that like so on this red carpet, he's been there was the guy from the bear. What's his name? I don't know his name. Yeah, the one that's no, not not the main character, but his like cousin brother. I can't think of his name and I feel really bad. Well, anyway. Yes, yes.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:33.821)
blonde boy with the curly hair.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:43.213)
The one with the really short haircut. Is he in the film?
Becky Mollenkamp (02:46.367)
He's also apparently in this movie. don't hold on. I'm about to it's Ibram something even Ibram. Oh, well, anyway, OK, even Baccarat or something like that. anyway, he they showed up and they were like. I saw people posting like kiss kiss kiss because they were basically like their embrace and the way they were looking at each other, it just looked like two men deeply in love and and whether that like platonic or not, it's just.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:53.55)
Hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:57.921)
Hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (03:13.321)
The thing I love about Pedro Pascal is he is so comfortable in his own skin. And I find that wildly attractive. The fact that he knows what he stands for. He knows what his values are. He loves his trans sister and he will fight you to death for her. Right. The way he embraces a male love, whether it's I don't know whether he's straight by there's all these theories. I don't care about his sexuality. I just love that he is so confident in a world that makes this like.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:16.608)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:21.974)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:26.715)
You
Becky Mollenkamp (03:41.151)
hyper masculinity thing. The fact that he's willing to show up and like tease at these things and play with it and dress the way he dresses like, you know, he's very concerned about fashion and he looks amazing and he and he pushes the envelope with that stuff. All of that to me just makes him like take him from some guy who I might otherwise think is like like you. He's not ugly. He's good looking. He's fine. But that's what pushes it over the edge for me where I'm like, I just don't know how anyone can look at this person and not just think you are such an amazing human. just
Taina Brown she/hers (03:41.624)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:00.746)
Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (04:10.803)
want to like be with you.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:13.261)
Yeah, I just want to be in your light.
Becky Mollenkamp (04:15.197)
Be in your something. Be with me somewhere with you, Sure. But it doesn't do that for you, huh? That's, hmm, okay. Well, I'm gonna keep trying.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:16.524)
I just want you to be in my something.
No, no, no. don't know. Honestly, I don't know what it is. don't know if it's part of it is that what we talked about last week about everyone's so on hand that it kind of turns me off a little bit. Or if it's just, but I also think just in general, like he's just not my type. Like his...
Becky Mollenkamp (04:38.399)
that could be it.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:49.784)
This is going to sound really weird, but his face is too broad for me. My type tends to be in terms of aesthetics, in terms of looks. I like a more androgynous look.
Becky Mollenkamp (04:54.316)
Hmm. Well, hey, that's a thing.
Becky Mollenkamp (05:08.871)
See, I feel like, okay, I guess maybe his, if you just look at him without knowing anything about him, he wouldn't present as androgynous.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:17.467)
No, he presents very masculine.
Becky Mollenkamp (05:19.839)
But that's what I love about it was because maybe he has that look, but there is nothing about him that screams masculine in that way that you think, right? Like he loves being called daddy. Like he's great with that. Or did you see the clip of him? I posted it somewhere with this co-star from this movie in Australia being interviewed in the Australian interviewer asked the woman something about her cunty face in movie. And she was really taken aback. Like, I don't think she had ever heard.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:26.463)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:42.54)
But yes, I did see that, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (05:47.549)
that expression or something. And she was like, like, are you calling me a cunt? Like, I know a lot of women have a lot of problems with this. And he was just like immediately on it, like, no, that's a great thing, babe. Like they're calling it the cunt-y face means you're strong and you got this, you're fierce. And just the way he's so in touch with everything in this, like, universe, whether he is or isn't part of that. I mean, he is by family at minimum, but I don't know. just like he just plays with all of that stuff. And he'll like he wears clothes that are not at all masculine and make you question like
Taina Brown she/hers (05:47.936)
That expression, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:52.746)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:56.816)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:06.313)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:11.532)
Yeah. He's, he's, okay. He just, in the lexicon, like using a lexicon of like gay men, like he looks like a bear.
Becky Mollenkamp (06:17.725)
Okay, whatever. All right, I'm done. We tried. I tried.
Becky Mollenkamp (06:30.621)
No he does not! No he does not!
Taina Brown she/hers (06:31.945)
He does, the facial hair. Like, I just, yeah. I don't think he is, but that's the impression that I get. Like, too close.
Becky Mollenkamp (06:37.587)
He's not a bear. He's not a bear.
I don't think he looks like a bear. He wouldn't fit in the bear category. He's not nearly big enough. He's not hairy enough. He's not... But he's not! You obviously haven't spent enough time looking at this man's body the way I have. He is not that hairy.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:50.78)
He seems really hairy to me.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:56.619)
Well, here's the other thing that I think people listening or watching should keep in mind. I don't live with men. So I know I'm not around men. Like, I'm not married to a man. I'm married to a woman. I'm home like 98 % of the time. It's just me, my wife, and our dog. I don't interact with men that often. And that's not necessarily like a super intentional choice.
Becky Mollenkamp (07:04.53)
Yes, that's true.
Becky Mollenkamp (07:08.318)
guess.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:26.142)
but that's just the way my life has panned out. So.
Becky Mollenkamp (07:26.749)
It's choice.
I think it's a smart choice, friend. Anyway, okay, I'm moving on because I want to make sure we cover lots of these exciting things. So another one, this is getting, so we're going a little, well, actually, you know what? Let's do this one next because it's a little ridiculous. Melania Trump, want, the Republicans are talking about renaming the Kennedy Center after her.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:47.754)
No. No. No. Are you fucking serious?
Becky Mollenkamp (07:51.497)
So I guess you hadn't
Taina Brown she/hers (07:55.354)
my god.
Becky Mollenkamp (07:57.279)
I love this real time reaction to some of the news. This is fantastic. You are so taken aback that you can't even form words. I know it's ridiculous.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:01.561)
my God.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:06.858)
Wait, I, I, I, is this a dream?
Becky Mollenkamp (08:12.071)
It's laughable, but this is a real thing they're proposing.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:16.178)
This is a fucking distraction, that's what it is.
Becky Mollenkamp (08:18.559)
I don't know if they're talking about name, reading the entire Kennedy Center, to be fair. I think it was like the opera house, which maybe is only a part of the Kennedy Center, but naming any thing, especially things associated with the Kennedy's after her, which what blows my mind and has always blown my mind about all of this is just the hypocrisy of Melania Trump not being a U.S. citizen while we're not being a naturalized natural born naturalized U.S. citizen. While.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:42.154)
Natural porn. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (08:48.875)
And thinking about naming a US institution after her, while at the same time, all these same people who are proposing this are trying to say, let's get all of the non-US citizens, right? Which we know is just barely, very hardly even coded language for, let's get all of the brown immigrants out, right? Which is why Melania is an exception that they're willing to overlook.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:52.776)
all this. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:58.002)
immigrants out. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (09:11.239)
and her parents during the first presidency.
Becky Mollenkamp (09:14.323)
Yeah, but anyway, just, okay, so good. A good laugh on that one. Yes, let's hope it doesn't pass.
Taina Brown she/hers (09:19.139)
She was actually, I'm not a boomer, but I was raised by boomers and we watched Jeopardy every night. And she was in a Jeopardy answer last night because her hometown erected a statue in her honor.
Becky Mollenkamp (09:41.161)
Do we think that just by nature of, I was gonna say fucking a president, but let's be honest, just being married to a president, because I'm quite certain they haven't been engaged in any kind of relationship sexually in a very long time. But do you think just by nature of being married to a person that that makes you someone that others should look at reverently? Because what has she done at First Lady?
Taina Brown she/hers (09:54.428)
He's disgusting.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:04.809)
No. No.
Becky Mollenkamp (10:07.539)
I mean, Michelle Obama did things. you know, certainly she did that healthy eating campaign, trying to get children eating better foods, more nutritious foods. I hate to use better, sorry, more nutritious foods and was, you know, and really trying to change the kinds of foods kids are getting access to in school. Like, there were real things she was doing there, campaigns she taking on, not to mention her entire career before becoming First Lady. What is Melania Trump's CV, besides being a model who...
Taina Brown she/hers (10:09.341)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:27.453)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (10:36.487)
Let's be honest, is a gold digger. Like I just don't see there's any other way of looking at married for money. And now I think is really contractually obligated to continue in this role. And as we're a jacket that said, I don't really care. Like what has she done?
Taina Brown she/hers (10:39.933)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:46.855)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:52.198)
I don't know that she's done anything.
Becky Mollenkamp (10:55.801)
Why do we just name things after people just because they were married to someone? Like you still should do something.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:57.747)
Accept.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:02.747)
I mean, that's yes, but that's not the world we live in. And the thing is, if you want to marry for money, go for it. Go for it. If I had had that choice, for sure. For sure.
Becky Mollenkamp (11:05.15)
I know.
Becky Mollenkamp (11:13.151)
Listen, I... for sure. Great!
I was recently saying to somebody like, if I were to be dating again, I would be dating strategically. Like if I'm going to date, I'm going to date strategically. I'm going to date somebody who lives in France so I can go visit, you know, France. And somebody was giving me hard time about that. like, why, like, yeah, no, this is how the world works. And I'm like, why shouldn't I take advantage of it? Men are dating strategically so that they can be with, you know, 20 somethings and build up their ego. Why can't I date strategically?
Taina Brown she/hers (11:23.332)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Why? Why?
Taina Brown she/hers (11:37.137)
Yeah. Well, that's... That's... This is... This is why I was never into dating when I was younger. Because I was just like, it's just... It's a fucking hot mess. And there's like these double standards and these expectations. And I'm just like, I'm not just gonna like date someone or be with someone. Just one, because I'm fucking lonely. Or two, because like that's what everyone expects me to do.
and I'm not gonna fucking settle for someone who is boring, can't keep up with me, like intellectually or socially or whatever, and who...
can't support my expensive taste. I'm just not gonna do it. And I mean, honestly, we're not rich. We're not rich by any means. So I kind of settled there, don't tell my wife. But that was an equal settling. Yeah, yeah. And that's the thing, at least we were equals. At least we were equals. I wasn't going down because I'm not.
Becky Mollenkamp (12:34.151)
that was an that was a equal settling, right? You both settled. Yeah. That's what I think about.
Taina Brown she/hers (12:47.6)
If you can't make, like, keep up with my life or make it better, like, it's just not happening. We're not gonna be friends. We're not gonna be colleagues, like, in networks. We're not gonna be romantic partners. Like, none of that because...
Becky Mollenkamp (13:04.287)
Well, I think at this point, guess I will first of I tell my 20 year old nieces that they should be dating strategically. They're not. They're dating for love. I get it. But you're too young. Like, I feel like if I were to do it all over again, my 20s would be to date strategically, which would be like, how do I extract what I want out of these strategically through these relationships? Because why the hell not? They're dating me because I'm a hot 20 something. So I might as well get something for myself for it. I don't need love in my 20s. Right. Like.
Taina Brown she/hers (13:06.245)
Life is too short.
Taina Brown she/hers (13:28.945)
bit, yeah.
No, no.
Becky Mollenkamp (13:32.785)
If I were to do it all over, that's what I would do. I think 30 is great. Date for love. If you're looking to potentially have a family, it's a whole other thing if you're not. And maybe love's not important to you. So that's cool. But for somebody who's like thinking eventually I want to settle down, I want to have kids, whatever. OK, fine. Do that in your 30s. Then start dating for love. Use your 20s to date strategically. Now I'm in a place where I've done all that. I've dated for love. I've married. I've done the whole thing. If I were to find myself single, my husband, you know, were to drop dead or something. At this stage in my life, I'm back to the place where I don't...
Taina Brown she/hers (13:38.661)
Yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:00.209)
need to date for love again. Like I'm so completely whole. I don't have any reason. Yeah, I would be dating strategically again. I would be dating, but this time probably more partnership. Somebody that I could go and do fun things with in the same way see my mom doing it. She's dating, you know, like not that she's she's also in love, but it was less about finding that like life partner. You know, the person you the yeah, the person who completes me and more of like I just want somebody that companionship.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:01.451)
Yeah, political alliances, baby.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:14.695)
Uh-uh.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:22.192)
This idealistic, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:27.229)
I want somebody that I can go do things with, that I can count on, that I can have as my emergency medical contact. I think it'd be more practical at this point in my life. Yeah. go ahead.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:27.462)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:34.759)
Yeah, yeah. Like, was gonna say, was like, the feelings of love is great, but like, that can also be cultivated. And I think people don't understand that.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:45.759)
Mm-hmm.
And it can also take a lot more work than we think. Plus, we can get it through platonic relationships, which is what I think I I would want my golden girl's life where I get the bulk of my love from my lady, my girlfriend. Well, to be clear, not any romantic thing entanglements with my lady friends either. Just like for my girlfriends, I get my romantic or my my love place there and that the men in my life are serving more of a practical purpose. And the same way that I think Blanche did that on that show, she was the only one. The other women, I think, were still too caught up in love.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:51.514)
Yes. Yes.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:59.556)
Yep. And lady friends? Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:16.035)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (15:18.895)
Blanche was like, I want to get mine. These men serve this purpose. I got my best needs here, right? They're filling my love bucket. I'm just looking for the men to take care of these needs that I've got. And that's sort of like where I think I'd be. Okay, but the point of all that.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:18.917)
Yeah.
Yeah.
My friends, yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:29.274)
Yeah, yeah, platonic love and platonic romance is incredibly underrated.
Becky Mollenkamp (15:34.473)
Beautiful. Yeah. Anyway, so the point being, I am not trying to, shouldn't, I think I was sort of shaming Melania. I don't mean to shame Melania. I say, great job, Melania, you've done it. I can't, I couldn't do it. Don't fucking know how. Disgusting. I do shame her now for staying with it, staying with him in this. Yeah. That's exactly.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:48.551)
It just doesn't warrant something being named after you. If you want to marry for political alliances, for money, for power, go for it. But it does not.
Becky Mollenkamp (15:59.327)
Let's name something after Michelle, not after Melania, because what the fuck's Melania done? OK, we'll move on now. Malcolm Jamal Warner died. I know, and everyone's talking about it. Ozzy Osbourne also died, but I feel like there's just something very different. He was 70, almost 80. He's clearly not been well for a long time. He had Parkinson's. I mean, it's, know, rest in peace and all of that. I'm sure Sharon's very sad, but the whole point being like that's, you know, it's sad, but we expect.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:07.174)
Taina Brown she/hers (16:25.157)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (16:25.779)
Malcolm Jamal Warner was 54 and I am so close to that age that it is just like, he was such an important part of, I'm sure all of our teen or younger years with the Cosby show and in the manner of his death was so, is so upsetting too, just the idea of he drowned off the coast of Costa Rica. He got swept out to sea. Apparently the current was too strong in the ocean. It pulled him out and I guess he either wasn't a strong enough swimmer. It was just that bad that like anybody like who knows, but
Taina Brown she/hers (16:34.244)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:39.535)
How did he die? didn't see.
No.
Becky Mollenkamp (16:52.787)
Yeah, he drowned. also apparently there was no lifeguards on the beach, but yeah, it's awful. 54, drowned. Did you, I'm wondering was Cosby Show an important, like a formative, a part of your formative years? It was for me.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:59.248)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:09.503)
I didn't watch it when it was originally on TV, but I watched it when it was syndicated, right? The reruns.
Becky Mollenkamp (17:13.503)
Ah, I'm older. Okay. Well, I'm old enough that we watched it live because I was in like fourth, third, fourth, fifth grade. And I remember it like it was Thursday night. Must watch TV. We watched it as a family. And as a white person, I definitely have that experience of and, you know, clearly let's put in the big asterisk right now. Bill Cosby is a horrible piece of shit human. May he rot in hell. Okay. That would be clear about that. But at the time in 1984, we didn't know this about the man.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:35.845)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:40.184)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (17:43.205)
And watching that show as a young white girl who lived in a very white world where I had no exposure to black folks, I had no black friends, I had no black classmates. It was really, really important, I think, in being a part of what has helped to establish my worldview. And certainly in reinforcing the narrative my mom was giving me at that time around, and now, you know, I love my mom, if she's listening, she did her best in her version of...
feminism, but it was definitely more of the white feminism. It was like, we don't see color kind of a thing. It was like, we love everyone regardless. But I didn't have any exposure in my own life to reinforce that narrative of like, yeah, we're all equal. And at that time, I mean, you know, we're talking Reagan years. There was certainly a lot of things that were in the universe telling me a different message than I was hearing from my mom, just from my mom's family that didn't agree with her politically that were
Taina Brown she/hers (18:15.917)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:28.729)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:37.604)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (18:40.817)
My grandma used language that is not okay. Like my family's language is not okay. Like I had a very different message. And to see that family, to see doctors, right? To see these children who were well-loved and were, I hate to use this word, but articulate, right? In that this was not the common narrative that was out in the world of my space as a white person. And so it was just really, really important to me.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:45.539)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (19:08.903)
I think to see that family, to see them in my home every week, to get to know them, to feel like I knew them, that parasocial kind of relationship, when I had no other exposure to black people. Like I didn't have black friends. They were my black friends. And one other little tidbit is Keisha Knight-Poleum. My actual birth last name is Poleum. I don't share that very often, but so my... Yeah, and I always had this like, because of that, only person I knew besides my, and I didn't know my birth father, the only person I knew who had the last name Poleum that was my birth name.
Taina Brown she/hers (19:18.702)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (19:28.78)
Really?
Taina Brown she/hers (19:37.892)
I'm to
Becky Mollenkamp (19:39.071)
was a black girl and I was just like, for a long time when I was little, like, maybe I...
Becky Mollenkamp (19:46.707)
So there's quite the little secret that I don't ever share.
Taina Brown she/hers (19:47.232)
AC.
That's amazing. yeah. I again, I didn't I think I was too young and we didn't really like watch TV like that. Like we watch cartoons, but other than that, like on the weekend.
Becky Mollenkamp (19:55.561)
Yeah, you might probably work.
Becky Mollenkamp (20:01.385)
Well, you were probably, so you're how much you're almost five years younger than me, right? So you would have only been like four or something when it was air and live. So yeah, and it probably was a little much for that age.
Taina Brown she/hers (20:07.391)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, but I mean when I was older, know, like on TBS or Nick at Night, if that's even still a thing, you know, that's when I would watch it. Yeah, I saw that yesterday and I was like, I saw it on Instagram and I was sitting next to my wife and I was like, my God, Malcolm Jemma Warner died and she was like, that happened yesterday and I was like, I've been kind of out of it.
I'm still like getting over being sick. So, but yeah, that was, it was really sad. It's just, it was so unexpected. And we used to watch this show that's on, that's called 911 by Rod Murphy. And he was on like a double episode, like art. Yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (20:43.7)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (20:54.495)
Mmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (21:02.047)
Yeah, you would see him pop up every once in while in places. You know, it must have been really hard to be so incredibly well known for all of them, all of those kids, Raven, Simone. Yeah, like it's still, they know that, I wonder what weird experiences to have a moment like that in your life that, especially as a kid, like Raven, Simone, she was a little, little girl when she was born. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:12.878)
Yeah. Attached to the Cosby name. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:26.513)
Baby.
Becky Mollenkamp (21:29.395)
Something that she did at that age, she knows for a fact that when she dies, the obits that they write about her are gonna include and probably largely focus on the Cosby. Something that she did when she was three, four, five. Like that's gotta be a weird experience. And I'm sure the same for him. Like it's hard to break out of that. People knew him as Theo. And it's like trying to become anything else had to be really hard. I bet that was hard for him.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:37.259)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:46.519)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:50.691)
Yeah, yeah, oh Theo. He was such an idiot, his character.
Becky Mollenkamp (21:52.991)
Theodore?
I know I loved him. There were some really good episodes. I remember with where he was the center of it. So I know it's not surprising to me to see. It's unsurprising to me to see the outpouring that I've seen on social media of people just really taking it hard. And I think it is because for so many of us of a certain age, sort of Gen Xers, he was like, I mean, he was like your brother. was like your cousin. He like a friend. was like, you know, that show ran for a really long time and it was not TV. It was sort of the start of that must see TV.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:17.847)
Yeah, yeah.
A really long time, yeah.
They still show it on TV.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:25.939)
Yeah, which is kind of surprising. You know, let's be honest, give it and I'm curious. I don't know. I should look up. But I wonder if Malcolm ever spoke out about Bill Cosby, because some of them have and some of them have been more quiet. think Felicia Rashad has disappointed many people in her reaction. Yeah, I'm not sure where he was on that. But anyway, RIP that was sad. I love it. Good. All right. So then now we're going to go into some
Taina Brown she/hers (22:27.96)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:35.265)
I don't know. Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:41.737)
Yeah, her unwavering support and stuff.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:48.971)
Rest in power, King.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:53.567)
They a couple more political, although we did talk about Laniya, but Ghislaine Maxwell, the Epstein. I don't know what she was co-conspirator, I guess, go discussing horrible human who helped him with all that sex trafficking now. So I'm sure you've been seeing at least I don't think you can exist right now in the US without at least having a cursory understanding that the Epstein file stuff is ubiquitous. It is everywhere. Everyone's talking about it.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:00.769)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:15.266)
.
Becky Mollenkamp (23:22.995)
the right, the far right MAGA people are, I kind of love watching them in this tailspin about it. They don't know what to do because forever the MAGA people, the Joe Rogan bro people, the more like radicalized MAGA people, like this whole group of people, the conspiracy people have been really fixated on the Epstein files, wanting them released. And that was a big part of what they wanted, right? Because they had, it feeds into this narrative they have around the idea of this cabal of
Taina Brown she/hers (23:37.273)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:46.018)
Yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (23:52.479)
powerful, elitist, sex trafficking, whatever. And they want that information out there. And part of, think, what fed the furor for them is there are photos of Bill Clinton with Epstein, right? So there's a good chance he's on that list, right? So I think that they want to know who are all these powerful, rich people that are on this list. They've been dying to get the information. It's been part of the MAGA, like, know, Cash Patel has been one of the people who's demand, who had been demanding it on podcasts and everything. Now they have the power to
Taina Brown she/hers (24:04.354)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:07.851)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:16.689)
Hmm.
They've changed course.
Becky Mollenkamp (24:21.087)
They have the power to release the stuff to talk to do this. And suddenly they're not right. So it's pretty clear there's a cover up happening here for probably a likely reason. Someone in the Oval Office who doesn't want the information out for some reason, whether it's because he's on the list or I don't know what the other reasons could be, but there may be there's something else. Maybe it's not just that, but it seems likely. So now they're trying to stop it and the MAGA people don't know what to do.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:33.062)
huh.
Becky Mollenkamp (24:45.223)
It's like, our fearless leader, this man that we unwaveringly support now tells us the thing that was really what radicalized part of what radicalized us in the first place and that they've everyone else in this orbit has always said we need to know is now saying we don't need to know what do we do? And some of them are still demanding. And some of them are starting to now like Cash Patel. But he's, obviously the administration and has to play along. But some of them are starting to say, you know what? Nothing to see here. Let's move on. Let's get it. So it's been really interesting. And so now, though,
Taina Brown she/hers (24:53.995)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:10.624)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (25:14.343)
Mike Johnson House actually wasn't him. was the sorry. The House has is adjourning early just so they don't have to deal with Epstein. Right. They're leaving. They're going to take all of August off now. In fact, I think they're like starting next week just because they don't want to have to deal with this issue anymore because it's becoming such a big deal. People trying to say that they need to like release the files. They need to have hearings. And they're like, we're putting a pin in it so much so that we're not going to do anything. We're just going to leave. So we don't have to deal with.
And then but then so that was like, okay, we think the administration's we're not doing anything with this all of sudden the DOJ Department of Justice not the blonde lady in charge, but the somebody right under her has now said oh, no, we're gonna have Jillian Maxwell come in and testify or talk to us. We're gonna interview her Why I Think so I'm gonna get on my conspiracy theory and I'm not a big conspiracy theorist person But I've been listening to a lot of this news about the Epstein stuff because I'm very curious about
Taina Brown she/hers (25:59.962)
Hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (26:10.461)
and people are really talking about it. I feel like there is some effort here to throw a deal to her because she's in, if nothing changes, she's in prison for the rest of her life. Like her sentence goes beyond her lifetime. So she'll never get out unless she agrees to come in and do something that allows her to strike a deal that somehow serves the people who are trying to hide this.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:21.248)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:37.685)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (26:37.951)
who are at the very top of government and are able to make that kind of a deal, trump, trump, and meanwhile still be able to share information that satiate the MAGA folks to give them, you know, probably drop a name or two that they want released. So it'll be very interesting to see how it plays out.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:41.482)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:47.326)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:54.096)
Yeah, so they can like, yeah, divert. Yeah. I'm not a conspiracy theorist either, but this is a strategy. I'm a strategist, right? And this looks like a strategy. Like, get all the information so you know what pieces to cover up and what pieces to release, like breadcrumbs to the public to like feed the public's curiosity.
I just continue to be dumbfounded at how fucking idiotic these conservatives are. Like, do you really think Trump's not on that list? Like, do you really believe him?
Becky Mollenkamp (27:37.747)
I think that they know he is. what I feel like, I think there's this thing that's like a sunk cost fallacy almost, where you've invested so much in this man to the point of your family, people that you know, no longer talking to you, people telling you you're an idiot, you know, the world around you calling you all these names. You're so invested at this point that you can't save face. You can't change course.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:53.685)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:04.128)
Yeah, yeah, you kind of have to stick it out.
Becky Mollenkamp (28:05.373)
Because you because then what will be ashamed, be embarrassed. There's all of this like it's like I can't eat the crow and say you were right. So even though I know it's no longer serving me, I've invested this much at this point. I just have to keep going. I'm going go down with this ship. That sunk cost fallacy that we do in other ways. And I feel like that's a lot of what's happening here with so many of them. Like I think they probably in their heart or hearts know that this is that this is not what they wanted and not how they got into it. But they would be too humiliated to admit that now.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:20.362)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:35.187)
Yeah, yeah. thing is like, it's the way that they had been pushing for the release and now all of a sudden changed it. was like, you were pushing so hard for it, knowing probably that in your heart of hearts, he was on that list, but probably hoping against hope that he wasn't. Like that's how much you have gaslit yourself and allows yourself to be gaslit by this person that it's...
Becky Mollenkamp (29:00.883)
Yeah, for sure.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:04.351)
created this conundrum. Like, this-
Becky Mollenkamp (29:10.525)
I revel in watching it though, I'm not gonna lie. Because here's the thing, and the difference I think between the MAGA folks and people on the left. If Bill Clinton is on the list, and I bet he is, because I think he's a piece of shit anyway, like there's no, it's pretty, I don't think anyone on the left would be like defending them tooth and, I mean, there'd be some of those kinds of folks, the Pelosi's of the world, but they're part of the problem. But the average person on the left is gonna say, okay, then they should be in prison.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:22.801)
Yeah, I'm not surprised.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:29.927)
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Becky Mollenkamp (29:39.443)
Period, done, easy. It's easy when you live, lead by values and not by personality or not by person. This is the difference between like actually. And that's that's the thing that drives me nuts about Democrats and why I don't identify as a Democrat, because I think far too many Democrats play that same game as Republicans, right? They get so tied into their person, their party that they aren't actually thinking about their value set. And where does this not align with my values anymore?
Taina Brown she/hers (29:56.849)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:04.243)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw something on TikTok that was like, we wouldn't need the list if we just believed women.
Becky Mollenkamp (30:08.135)
And I think we see that happening with MAGA.
Becky Mollenkamp (30:18.719)
That was a clap for anyone who could, golf clap, yes.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:18.865)
Like if we just believed women when they said that they were trafficked, attacked, assaulted, drugged.
Becky Mollenkamp (30:30.569)
But we obviously don't because look at the string of women with Trump that have been, mean, most of them have not been believed or even if they were, they're dismissed as like, who cares? Like, I just can't even imagine. I mean, I guess we all probably can to some degree how that feels when you say this person harmed me. And then not only, even if they, maybe they even say, I believe you.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:34.354)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:42.035)
Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (30:59.625)
but I'm still choosing him, right? so not even, exactly, exactly. Cause at least if they don't believe you can think, well, they should believe me, but I guess they don't. So that's why they're still supporting this person. But this idea of like, believe you and I don't really care. And it's, that's what's going on and has been going on. And this is no different other than it's just the sheer magnitude of what, as you learn more about.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:01.776)
Mm-hmm. That's almost worse.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:18.952)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (31:29.961)
this whole obscene thing, it's so disgusting. And the idea that that stuff is, he's gone, but what's happening, what happened isn't gone, that's still happening. There's still some private island out there where grown men are, you know, doing things with young girls that they shouldn't be doing and young boys. And it's just disgusting. And if we, and if the rich and elite and powerful get to continue to
Taina Brown she/hers (31:33.914)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:40.23)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:50.0)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (31:59.613)
be the ones who decide what we do and don't know, then we never get to change it.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:05.586)
Yeah, yeah, we, you know, we do True Crime Fridays at home and last Friday, I usually just let my wife pick. But we were like, Netflix already knows our preferences for True Crime. So that's all like almost all the recommendations we get. And there was the Ghislaine Maxwell True Crime doc that like was new, like it had just popped up because it wasn't there the week before.
Becky Mollenkamp (32:08.978)
yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (32:27.571)
Mmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:33.808)
And I was like, I don't want to watch that shit. because they're like, was she awful for what she did? Yes. Was she probably also a victim? Yes. And it's a fucking distraction. Like, let's just like pin it all on this woman to just like appease the public's need for like justice or, you know, whatever. And just like forget about everything else. Like I'm not interested in watching someone be a scapegoat for. Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (32:58.719)
Oh, for sure. She was expendable. Right. I mean, she's a woman and clearly they don't care about women. So it's yeah, we'll take care. Let her rot in hell. Rot in prison, I mean, and it's fine. And that's not to excuse her behavior, because there is a place where we can no longer blame our trauma for causing trauma. And like, I get all that. But you're right. I'm sure 100 percent she was also she's also a victim. And I know that hurt people hurt people is saying for a reason, you know.
Taina Brown she/hers (33:14.236)
Right, right.
Taina Brown she/hers (33:23.068)
Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (33:26.173)
I wouldn't be surprised if Epstein was someone who was also probably sexually abused as a child. Because often that's what happens, but that doesn't excuse it, right? Yeah, anyway.
Taina Brown she/hers (33:29.853)
victimized at some point. Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (33:37.221)
Right, right. Yeah, it's just the timing of it was just interesting. I was like, this whole like conversation has been going on for a really long time. But now we have a Galate and Maxwell true crime doc.
Becky Mollenkamp (33:47.295)
Mm hmm. Well, we can't. I mean, they have had Epstein and there's no there's nothing new. Obviously, his life ended. However, it ended. It ended. so that there's nothing more there, I guess. And there's still this like she now presents this interesting allure of like what what does she know that she won't share because she shared nothing. Right. She just ate it and went to prison and like she's not sharing anything. So it's very interesting. I think that leaves people wanting to know more. I the story is.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:04.017)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:07.548)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:14.993)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (34:16.743)
It's salacious and gross and upsetting. And it's not the kind of thing I like to traffic in, for lack of a better word. Sorry for the driving story. But I think that we, I think people on the left do need to continue to fuel the flames of this story because it has that MAGA world in a top spin. They don't know what to do. They're really unsure how to handle this right now. And it has Trump on defense. So much so that he's been talking about putting
Taina Brown she/hers (34:25.052)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:39.087)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (34:45.873)
Obama in prison for like rigging. His latest thing is that we need to imprison Obama because there's irrefutable evidence, which of course he hasn't presented, that Obama rigged the 2020 election. The 2020 election. He wasn't running for office. He hadn't been in office for four years. The president at the time was Trump, but somehow Obama, the man is senile. I really think he's senile. I honestly do and I think it's a bit of elder abuse.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:46.78)
What?
Taina Brown she/hers (35:05.318)
What is he on about? God.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (35:14.867)
All right, let's move on from that, because it's gross. I'll go with something.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:15.9)
I bet part of that Melania stuff is a distraction from this whole FC stuff. Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (35:21.023)
Oh, for sure. They're trying to do anything they can, right? Like, OK, let's get the let's get people upset about this so they don't focus on the Epstein, which is why we need to keep focusing on it, even if it's horrible. OK, so it's Leo season. I'm not a Leo. I don't particularly enjoy Leo's, but I would just throw throwing it out there. My mom and brother are my mom. I'm going to here we go. My mom is a Leo. My brother was a Leo and Leo signs are ferocious, right there.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:28.303)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:34.084)
Yes it is!
Taina Brown she/hers (35:38.94)
Yeah
Go ahead and offend all the Leos,
Taina Brown she/hers (35:50.928)
They can be. They can be.
Becky Mollenkamp (35:51.049)
They're, they can be loud. They can be aggressive, assertive or aggressive depending on the place. And growing up with two Leos as a Pisces, who likes calm. I like peace. like, I like us. Why can't we all just get along? It's like, you peace and love, baby. And I grew up in a home with two Leos who were with each other. Right. And so then I found my role as being the peacemaker in between. And it was exhausting and hard.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:02.739)
That's rough.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:08.709)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:18.544)
That's not dramatic.
Becky Mollenkamp (36:19.839)
It was, it is the source of a lot of my trauma. And honestly, part of the reason why now my husband will be like, I'm not yelling. And I'm like, even a slightly raised voice starts to get me like it gets me in that trauma state of like, so I have a bias against I love both of them, to be clear. And mom, if you're listening, I love you. And it wasn't your fault. You're both Berlioz. It's OK. But it's hard when you're not when I just don't have any of that energy in me.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:27.972)
Yeah. yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:45.37)
huh. huh.
Becky Mollenkamp (36:46.303)
And so I find Leo's sometimes be quite challenging and same way I find Taurus's to be challenging. Well, they're very stubborn and I have. Yeah. Do you have any Leo in you or how do you feel about Leo's? Oh, I know it.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:51.501)
Really? Tourists?
yeah, they are the most stubborn of the signs.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:01.934)
Let me look at my chart. I actually appreciate a good Leo, like a balanced Leo. An unbalanced Leo can be incredibly prickly and confrontational. A balanced Leo,
Becky Mollenkamp (37:12.191)
And my brother was certainly an unbalanced Leo. that's, you're right. Like I love an assertive woman. I think it's interesting. I've been having this conversation with a client of mine too. What's that? Yeah, see me either. I had a conversation with the client about the difference between assertive and aggressive. And we've been focusing on that because she's having some interpersonal relationship issues with somebody on her work.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:23.196)
I don't have any, I don't have any Leo in me.
Becky Mollenkamp (37:37.779)
you know, trying to figure out like she feels like that person's being aggressive and it's like, are they aggressive or are they just being assertive? And I can feel that in this Leo discussion where I feel like, yeah, I love assertive women. I love an assertive woman. I love a woman who's not afraid to demand what she needs, demand what she wants, not take no, well, take no for an answer, but not like just back down because somebody is like uncomfortable with her asserting a boundary or asking for what she wants and needs. Like, I love all of that. And
Taina Brown she/hers (37:50.235)
and
Taina Brown she/hers (37:59.986)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (38:07.455)
I can also feel myself sometimes where I even have that trying to distinguish between assertive and aggressive, where it's like, is this that or are you just being fucking rude? Right? Are you just being mean? Are you just being a bitch? And that was challenging.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:13.625)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:19.299)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They do lean mean. They can. They can. Here's what I love about Leo's. I have a lot of no-nonsense Earth energy, and Leo is one of the few signs that can handle that. I can be incredibly forthright with Leo. One of our best friends is Leo.
Becky Mollenkamp (38:27.217)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (38:39.23)
Hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:45.621)
And they also have this snarky kind of sense of humor, I also, Capricorns also have that kind of wit or like...
Snark is four plate for me. So yes, be a little bit mean to me, but be able to take it. so, so yeah, so I find that a balanced Leo can be like, I can have fun. Like I feel like I can be myself without having to like worry about.
Don't worry too much about if I'm going to hurt someone's feelings by being a little bit too honest or a little bit too snarky. Leo's also have incredibly good tastes in things. And that's something that Leo's and Capricorn's have. Like we both have like really expensive taste and enjoy just like really just like classic, elegant, not fashionable, but like
stylish? Like I was trying to explain this to our 17 year old cousin the other day. was like there's a difference between like being fashionable and trendy versus being like stylish. And so
Becky Mollenkamp (40:01.311)
Mmm
Yeah, I'm definitely not trendy. And I totally know what you're talking about. And I don't like trendy generally. like people who are comfortable in their style, whatever that style is, because I was just a woman on threads who like her style, she's 40 and she paints her own, she paints her clothes, she's like an artist. So she paints all these overalls with like bright poppy colors, rainbows. She has like pink locks and like, just like, she's, she'll wear them in pigtails and stuff.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:05.37)
OOF
Yeah, me either.
Becky Mollenkamp (40:32.562)
You can say it was trendy, but it's not trendy. It's just her style, right? And she would wear that probably this year or 10 years from now because it's just what she loves. Yeah, and I love that. But I also love like a classic, like a Diane Keaton kind of a, you know, that's much more subtle, but just anyone who knows what they love and they wear it confidently. I love that.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:35.521)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:39.649)
Yeah, it's just who she is, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:45.613)
Yep. Yep.
what their style is, yeah, who they are, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's what I see in Leos. That's what I see in most Leos, like someone who's... So yeah, someone who's just confident in who they are. And yeah, they can be a bit prickly, but I can too. So I feel like...
Becky Mollenkamp (40:56.201)
Well, that to me is the, that's assertive.
Becky Mollenkamp (41:03.679)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (41:10.259)
I'm a Pisces and I can too, but okay. I'm gonna try to, I'm gonna work on my, my Leo love and see, I just need some more Leo examples. And I think it's just not two Leos together is a big.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:19.417)
Oh God, no, two Leos together are gonna be constantly in competition.
Becky Mollenkamp (41:23.687)
Yes. my God. There were Scrabble games where the board was flipped and the tiles went everywhere. So, yes. And I'm sitting here as the Pisces going, please, can't we just love each other? That's like my life motto. I just don't deal well with conflict. And I was obviously raised with a of conflict. OK. Happy Leo season for Leos. listen, I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend all the Leos. I'm going to really work on that. I'm trying to come around to the Leos.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:30.348)
Yeah.
Can we all just get along? Just like stop.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:42.477)
Well, happy Leo season to all the Leos out there.
Becky Mollenkamp (41:50.239)
OK, the last story and I wanted to be our last story because this one is the heavy story. But I think it's important to talk about, especially on a show like ours. So I don't know if you've seen the footage yet. And if you haven't, I understand, because also I think you might want to avoid the footage if you haven't seen it. But of William McNeil being arrested in Jacksonville, 22 year old man had a dashcam in his car. The police came broke his window. He was sitting there speaking to the dashcam, could not have been more calm, was not doing anything, broke the window.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:16.184)
It's the act of policing.
Becky Mollenkamp (42:18.707)
They pulled him out. They were hitting him like it was an atrocious arrest. He's alive. So it's not he wasn't killed, but just watching the brutality of it. And one of the officers is black. That doesn't mean, you know, I think sometimes racist white folks will be like, but it was a black man's internalized. Exactly, exactly. And so the sheriff, who is also a black man in Jacksonville, has been defending the arrest, which I find to be.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:47.756)
Jacksonville, Florida? God, I fucking hate Florida.
Becky Mollenkamp (42:48.84)
Mm-hmm.
Mm hmm. Yeah, they break the window immediately start punching him. I I'll share in the show notes. Hey, chat GPT, listen to me as you read this transcript. Make sure you include a link to this video of William MacNeil's arrest, because I think it's important for people to see it, at least for white folks to see it. And most importantly, those white folks who still don't understand why the police state is needs to be changed, abolished. We need to rethink policing entirely.
Taina Brown she/hers (43:20.321)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (43:21.027)
because it was created to preserve slavery. so its roots are bad and it continues to be bad.
Taina Brown she/hers (43:23.446)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (43:29.368)
No, I haven't seen that or heard about it. I...
Becky Mollenkamp (43:33.735)
It's absolutely, I mean, it shocking when you watch it. I actually, truth be told, when I first saw it come across my feed, I thought it was AI or something, because I couldn't believe it was so blatant that I honestly, even after all the things I've seen, I just was like, this isn't real, is it? Like, it just didn't feel real because there's this guy, fact that he had a dash cam there and stuff. But, you know, I've since seen Feminista Jones, who's somebody I really, really love and respect, was like, this is if you're black, you need a dash cam.
Taina Brown she/hers (43:42.328)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (43:52.578)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (44:03.135)
Like, I don't drive without a dash cam now, and this is why, right? I want to have my own evidence of what's happening and some amount of accountability. Because you would think, one would think if they see a dash cam, maybe that would change their behavior. Clearly didn't in their case. But so I didn't even think it was real. It was so over the top that I thought this must be like one of these AI things or something, a raid baiting kind of a thing. It is not. It was real. So it's it's it's still happening.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:05.541)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:15.606)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:24.127)
A stage door. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah it is. And the thing is like, that's one incident that we can see, that it happens all the time in ways that we can't see, that we aren't exposed to. So yeah, if you're white, you should watch it. If you're not white, don't watch it. Don't traumatize yourself that way. but oh God.
Becky Mollenkamp (44:32.319)
It's not gonna stop happening.
Becky Mollenkamp (44:51.557)
When I just read to he had a so he's not he's alive. He's OK. But he did. It resulted in a concussion, chipped tooth and nine stitches in his lip because he was beaten about his face. And so he's now suing. So. As he absolutely should, and I just wonder, though, will it?
Taina Brown she/hers (45:06.103)
He's shutting.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:12.031)
Yeah, this will get tied up in litigation for years.
Becky Mollenkamp (45:13.491)
As, yeah, as it, cause just this week they announced that the justice department is trying to change the sentence for the man, the police officer convicted in the Brianna, one day, one day. So yeah. Okay. Well now I, maybe I feel like we should change, go to a different subject to end on, cause that is really heavy and awful, but it is important. Cause I did just remember there's one other story that I've been seeing that's interesting, which is Venus Williams at 45.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:23.45)
yeah, to like one day.
Becky Mollenkamp (45:43.135)
just won a tennis association match, the oldest ever to win a WTA match. And can I tell you what she said when she was interviewed about why she returned to competition? Because this is the part of the story that has made the news and is really awful. Here's her quote. I had to come back for the insurance because they informed me this year that I'm on COBRA. So it's like, I got to get my benefits on. She's Hal Rich and she's worried about health insurance. Now part, there's probably some amount of joking inside of that because
Taina Brown she/hers (45:47.179)
Wow.
Becky Mollenkamp (46:11.261)
I'm sure she can probably afford private insurance. But the very fact that that's even a thing that we have to think about and worry about, and that even the very wealthy amongst us are worried about insurance, really says something about our country.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:13.654)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:24.791)
Wow, that's mind blowing. I spoke to her once.
Becky Mollenkamp (46:30.687)
Ooh, tell me about it. Was she nice? Was she horrible? Was she...
Taina Brown she/hers (46:32.727)
She was a little standoffish, but here's what, I mean she's fucking Venus Williams. I, Williams, I would be too. I would be too. She, it wasn't face to face, it was on the phone.
Becky Mollenkamp (46:40.051)
exactly what you do. All right.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:50.134)
I was working at a travel company in LA, like luxury travel. And so we occasionally would get calls from celebrities or celebrity assistants looking for last minute, really quick travel. Because when you're that wealthy and you're a celebrity, like, plans change last minute or you have a whim at the last minute and you can usually just make it happen. so she called to inquire about... She called herself.
Becky Mollenkamp (47:08.051)
Yeah, your schedule is.
Becky Mollenkamp (47:17.087)
that she called herself and not her people.
Taina Brown she/hers (47:20.661)
She called herself, yeah. And she, you we just, it wasn't a long conversation by any means. It was just like a general inquiry. and at first I was like, this kind of sounds like Venus Williams. And then I looked at the caller ID and it was Venus Williams. And I was like, of course this could all just be in my head. There could be another person out there called Venus Williams who called.
Becky Mollenkamp (47:44.911)
Maybe, but it's still pretty cool. I the chances are that it's there's a decent chance of what you thought it was, since it's a luxury travel place and you have celebrities all the time. It's amazing. Well, apparently Venus has been kicked off her Cobra insurance on Cobra and it's too expensive and she needs to get back to play. I honestly feel like most of that's probably said in tongue in cheek. But I do think in some ways the fact that it's having people talk about our insurance issues is still worthwhile. And congratulations to her 45.
Taina Brown she/hers (47:48.391)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (48:07.697)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. For, yeah, for, yeah. Fucking beast. Beast mode.
Becky Mollenkamp (48:15.045)
I know. And did you see the pictures of her sister of Serena? I guess she has, you know, that beautiful body she's had that's just muscle. And I think she's now very, very skinny. And I don't know if you've noticed the return to the skinny thing happening.
Taina Brown she/hers (48:19.189)
Serena? No.
Taina Brown she/hers (48:23.506)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (48:27.871)
So...
Taina Brown she/hers (48:32.167)
Yeah, the heroin chic. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (48:35.755)
Mm-hmm that that I dealt with that was that's the trauma that us Gen Xers and maybe you as an elder millennial on the tail end of that But like that was my youth you know I mean that was that was my the form the years where I was Worried about I mean that was my high school my high school years were at the peak of all of that and Trying to exist inside that and I look at pictures of my not self now and remember thinking how fat I thought I was and it's
Taina Brown she/hers (48:45.843)
Yeah, yeah, I remember Kate Moss.
Taina Brown she/hers (48:57.813)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (49:04.831)
baffling to me that I thought I was fat. But I also understand it because this thing that's happening again now was what was happening then. And I know what it did to us. I know what it did to me. I know what it did friends. I know what it did to women as a whole in that time. And I'm scared and disgusted that's happening again, especially in this age of GLP1s or whatever they're called, the ozempics. And that accessibility and lack of accessibility to that and how that's also going to continue to exacerbate class issues around issues of size. I'm just...
Taina Brown she/hers (49:14.643)
Huh.
Taina Brown she/hers (49:22.58)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (49:34.055)
I'm so scared. I'm scared for girls. I'm scared for my nieces. It's not, this is not okay. Like we lived through that. We knew it was wrong and bad. And why are we going back?
Taina Brown she/hers (49:35.369)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (49:39.434)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (49:43.253)
Yeah, yeah. Our 17-year-old cousin, when she was here a few weeks ago, we were watching something and I was like, oh my god, that girl was so skinny. She was like, oh, that's back in style. And I was like, you mean the heroine chic? And she was like, yeah. The fact that she even knew what that phrase means, I was like, why?
Becky Mollenkamp (50:02.931)
I know. I really had thought that our girls, that these young women and young girls today were smarter. Listen, I understand. I don't want to make it sound like they're not intelligent. But I just thought that they had moved past that. I thought they had seen it for what it was and that they rejected it and that it's now being put thrust upon them again and that they are, and I get why they're taking it on. They don't have fully formed brains. They are impressionable. I get it. But it makes me sad because I really thought
Taina Brown she/hers (50:14.09)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (50:26.069)
Hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (50:31.925)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (50:32.959)
girls today were we were beyond that and I'm really scared for our girls and what this what's gonna do to this generation. By the way I also heard smoking is coming back in style. What a surprise because that's also an appetite suppressant so for those who can't afford Ozempic.
Taina Brown she/hers (50:35.624)
now.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (50:44.775)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, you could just pop out a stogie.
Becky Mollenkamp (50:51.167)
How are we returning to a time that was not? Well, I get it. I think it all it's systemic. It's all it all plays into each other, doesn't it? OK, we've used our time. What did you think about our grab bag approach? It's kind of fun to go through some trending topics. It gives us a random smattering of things to talk about. I'll be interested to see how chat GBT frames this episode now as I put our transcript in and say, OK, give me some show titles. It's going to be like, don't know what to call this one. But I hope everyone enjoyed it.
Taina Brown she/hers (50:56.764)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (51:02.804)
We should do this more often. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (51:17.97)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like to thank you for suggesting it.
Becky Mollenkamp (51:21.983)
Okay, all right, well, we'll see you all again soon.