Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Some Future Day evaluates technology at the intersection of culture & law.Â
Â
Join Marc Beckman and his esteemed guests for insider knowledge surrounding how you can use new technologies to positively impact your life, career, and family. Marc Beckman is Senior Fellow of Emerging Technologies and an Adjunct Professor at NYU, CEO of DMA United, and a member of the New York State Bar Association’s Task Force on Cryptocurrency and Digital Assets.   Â
Marc Beckman: [00:01:00] hi, it's so nice to have you on Some Future Day. How are you today?
Aliza Licht: [00:02:00] Mark, I'm so honored to be here, and like, I was really looking forward to this recording. I am thrilled to be here, and I'm doing great.
Marc Beckman: how our worlds align and in many ways are parallel with regards to fashion and media. I know you've been in that space for more than two decades now, roughly 25 years, and Congratulations on your, I believe it's your second book now and, you know, an acclaimed author. start all the way back because you really were super groundbreaking in the fashion industry with DKNY PR Girl.
think it's such a fantastic story for everybody to know about, I mean, there's no doubt about it. You really did break ground with that. Could you tell everybody a little bit about what social media was like during that time period and what you created, um, as the person running Donna Karen's PR, uh, during that time period?
Aliza Licht:
Well, thank you for that. Um, yeah, so I [00:03:00] was actually the SVP of Global Communications, so Patty Cohn, who was really the matriarch of communications, Donna Karan, and my mentor. In 2009, if you think back, Brands were like on Facebook. They had Facebook pages and like many organizations in fashion We're a little slow on the uptake, especially in the luxury space and there was this um, I would call it snobbery if you think back to a time where like even like a lot of the French brands were like We're never gonna have e commerce like we're never gonna do this online thing and then you know, so
Marc Beckman: was laid to it.
Aliza Licht: Everyone was late.
So 2009, we're sitting around a team marketing meeting, marketing communications meeting, talking about this new ish platform called Twitter, and talking about how we feel we should get on it. And because I was a publicist, I was scared that Donna Karan, the person, which is also the brand name, would [00:04:00] be assumed, it would be assumed that she was tweeting if the handle on Twitter was at Donna Karan.
Marc Beckman: makes sense. Makes
Aliza Licht: Make sense, yeah. So, um, and the brand itself was called Donna Karen New York, but that was too long, too many characters for a Twitter handle. So, it was the same timing as like Gossip Girl Season 2, and I said, you know, what if we just take a, uh, a page from their playbook and make it like, anonymous. We can create a character, you That can be represented by a sketch.
No one has to know who this person is. And through the lens of PR, maybe we just call it like, I don't know, DKY PR girl. And
Marc Beckman: Was that your idea, Lisa? Was that name your idea?
Aliza Licht: yeah, it was my idea. But, based off of Gossip Girl, right? So, um, my marketing counterparts were like, well, what about marketing? And I'm like, that doesn't have the same, Like sexiness to it as like PR and we also, no offense, do a lot more cool things like produce the fashion shows and dress people for award season and work [00:05:00] with editors and celebrities.
So we we took this idea back to sort of our boss and also our general counsel at the time and she was like this sounds fine, but Aliza, you're the only one allowed to tweet and I'm like, okay I don't even know what that means. But sure, I've never been on Twitter, I have no idea. So, it really was more like initiation by a fire.
No one, everyone knows to keep this secret. There was about five people who knew in the company. And, I just started tweeting. And, what I learned very quickly is what generates engagement and what doesn't. So, for example, promoting a sale of handbags, not going to generate engagement. Asking people a question generates engagement.
Giving people a behind the scenes view into the world of Donna Karan, which is what I did and which was the, the character's focus, is, was giving people an inside view to a world that they really didn't have [00:06:00] access to. So like, what does happen behind the scenes of awards season with celebrity dressing?
Things like that. So I was anonymous for almost two years, until a point where we decided as a company to reveal me as the person behind the Twitter handle, which
Marc Beckman: Wait, so, wait, wait, hold on. So before you, before you, um, unveiled who's behind the Twitter handle, you went from zero followers to what?
Aliza Licht: So, around 380, 000 followers organically.
Marc Beckman: wild. And do you think that those standards that you just articulated as it relates to engagement, like a little behind the scene, um, footage and engagement with regards to questions are still the most effective, um, methods with regards to growing audiences?
Aliza Licht: it has always been and will always be about storytelling. And I think that when you think about social media in general, it's called social media. It is meant to be a two way street. And brands sometimes use it as a [00:07:00] broadcast tool, strictly commercial, without realizing it really is about building a community.
So, so that was the difference. So everything that I learned through this experience is, is still tried and true today and is still the tactics I employ to my clients where I work on their strategies because, you know, having a, a personality on social media that is not a spokesperson, that is not necessarily the CEO creating a personality on social media.
So, it's still a great way to get your message out and allow people to connect with a human, right? The I versus the we. It's a really big difference when you're actually engaging online and we see, obviously it's much more popular today, but back then no one had done it yet.
Marc Beckman: before we go into the unveiling, um, you go from zero to 400, 000 followers for a fashion brand. It was huge. You know, I really do remember I [00:08:00] was following it. My agency was following it. I know Donna Karen personally, so I found it so interesting. So behind the scenes, Were you then, as this thing was growing, were you sitting down with Patty, were you sitting down with Donna saying, this thing is growing, maybe we should check in in regards to the quality of the stories, or the tone, or the voice, like, did you have, um, at some point, was there like a tipping point where they were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, Aliza, slow down, this is getting serious now, and we need to talk about this?
Aliza Licht: Wow, Mark, no one has ever asked me this question before and I love it. So, I will tell you at around 10, 000 followers, an editor from DNR, if you remember DNR, I emailed Patty and said that she is horrified that a legendary brand like Donna Karan would have this PR girl on Twitter talking about her behind the scenes of celebrity dressing and the fact that she's getting her hair colored and her lunches with [00:09:00] editors and horrified.
So Patty calls me into her office and she's like, you're not going to believe this. And she reads me the email and she thinks it's funny. I'm horrified. I'm like, am I destroying the brand? And I think Mark, because I had such trust in that company and I'd been there for so many years already, Patty trusted me implicitly and everyone else did too.
So she's like, keep doing what you're doing. And quite frankly, even our CEO at the time, Um, people like understood that I was quote on Twitter, but you know when you're not part of a social media platform and you're just hearing about it, you don't really understand the magnitude of what that meant. So I remember one day doing like a demo to my CEO in a conference room.
And I just pulled up Twitter and I said, okay, it was Mark Weber, and I said, Mark, just, just wait. I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask the community a question. [00:10:00] And I said, hey guys, I'm trying to explain Twitter to my CEO, say hi to him, and tell him what country you're in. Thousands of people responded.
Marc Beckman: powerful.
Aliza Licht: Like two, probably representation from 200 countries around the world.
He was blown away. And I was like, this is like our own little focus group. Donna never really understood, like she knew that I was doing something, but I don't think, because again, she wasn't on the platform, but again, I had management trust and without that, this never would have happened.
Marc Beckman: tell you, like, from my perspective, it was really interesting because I've always personally been a fan of Donna Karan's work. And I think back then Peter was doing a lot of the more luxurious stuff, and I'm a big fan of his work. But what you did for that brand is you added another dimension of relevancy to it.
To the brand. It was missing that youthful, as you're saying, like that urban New York City spirit of fashion, right? Of 7th Avenue. It was incredible what you brought [00:11:00] to the brand. So, all right, fast forward now. Everybody's wondering who's behind this account. You're growing it. The whole industry is watching you, right?
Like, literally, you know this, like, Every brand, whether it's in New York City, in Paris, in Milan, in Tokyo, they're watching what you're doing on Twitter. They're jealous. They're trying to figure out. They're trying to create personalities of their own. Why would you reveal who you are? Why did it become important for you at almost 400, 000 followers to say, I'm the person behind it?
Aliza Licht: So, I'm going to answer your question in a second, but I want to go back to one important thing because Donna herself really only spoke to Donna Karan New York, the luxury brand. Jane Chung, who was the head designer of DKNY, was press shy. So I filled a void of brand voice for DKNY where there wasn't really anyone's voice.
So I just want to say that because that is also why it, it, it really, there, it was very sticky in that [00:12:00] regard because I was the voice, almost like a micro brand within a brand.
Marc Beckman: corporate, Aliza. I mean, the truth is that consumer, from the consumer's perspective, you were the Donna Karen brand.
Aliza Licht: I mean, Ida can't speak for the consumer, I can tell you that that's how we saw it internally of just like, you know, you know, Donna really, for whatever reason, she really only spoke about collection. Felida Harris, who is one of the, um, VPs of sales for Donna Karan, one day, I mean, it's really her, she was the one, she's like, you know, Bergdorf came in for market, Saks came in for market, trying to sell them the collection, all they want to know is who is DKYPR girl.
And she's like, and it got me thinking, why are we not leveraging this? Why is it a secret anymore? It's been almost two years. Why is and also, you have to remember, this was at a time where social media conferences started popping up and everyone was like speaking at these conferences. So [00:13:00] she sort of mentioned it and I was like, yeah, I mean, I don't know, it's fine, like, whatever.
But it was a burden, to be clear, because it was very hard to keep it a secret at that point too. Until one day I got a call in my office from Teen Vogue, someone calling saying, Calling Aliza Licht, saying, Hi Aliza, um, we would really like DKNY PR Girl to come speak at our conference. Our social media conference.
And I'm like, oh, well she's anonymous, so, you know, I don't think that's gonna be possible. And they were like, well, maybe this is, maybe this could be her big reveal, and they were like really pushing it, so I was like, yeah, I'll get back to you. And I went into Patty's office, and I said, you DKNY PR Girl is, was invited to speak at a conference, And we were sort of, and I mentioned what Felita said about market and like, I was like, I don't know.
I was like, we should get credit for what we're doing as a brand and all these other brands are speaking at the conference, like, like, what do you think? And she was like, maybe it's time. [00:14:00] So we, we shot Felita's sister conveniently is a Emmy award winning producer. And, um, Felita was like, my sister can do like a do like a little docu series around you, and we did like this behind the scenes of Fashion Week reveal, which is still on YouTube, and that's what happened.
Marc Beckman: so nice. At the time, um, there was one competitor in the fashion Twitter. Yes. But
Aliza Licht: a competitor though, to me, because we were friends. So, just, I mean, she did come after, to be clear, um,
Marc Beckman: a little bit like her persona wasn't as contemporary as yours. Her persona was a little bit more highbrow and snobby, a little more exclusionary, right?
Aliza Licht: but she matched the tone of Oscar de la Renta.
Marc Beckman: Yes.
Aliza Licht: So, very on brand, um, she actually became a very good friend and we were always together, whether [00:15:00] in conversation, other people referencing us, or in person, uh, for, for years, and she's a fabulous, fabulous talent, and, you know, we were not, we were not really competitive, or I didn't give it away.
Marc Beckman: She's good, people. Um, again, from the insider perspective, you didn't see it. From the consumer's perspective, I totally saw it. But I love how you say on brand, because I agree with you. She was on brand for Oscar de la Renta, and that's a beautiful segue to your book, On Brand. it's really important. ask you, you have something that you call the Ten Commandments of Personal Branding. So, I'm wondering if you could break down what the Ten Commandments of Personal Branding specifically.
Aliza Licht: So, I will tell you that this is a laundry list of what I feel if you do all of these ten things, you have the foundation of a [00:16:00] strong personal brand. And I didn't memorize the list, so I'd have to pull up my book to actually read it to you, but it is everything from thinking in terms of how do you get 100 percent share of voice on the internet?
Well, you have your own website, right? That's the only place. That you can have 100 percent share of voice without the interference of an algorithm, right? Someone goes to your website, they are consuming you as you want them to. That is not the case for social media. Social media, you are renting your audience, you have an algorithm that's deciding whether your content should be served up even to the people who are following you.
There are other mediums too. The idea of not just online, but how you shape your personal brand in real life, right? Are you, are you earning social capital? Are you, do you have executive presence? Are you building relationships? So there's a million different ways to slice this. I put those together really in terms of almost like [00:17:00] an a la carte menu of things to choose from.
You know, So you
Marc Beckman: don't need all ten. You don't need all
Aliza Licht: you don't need all ten. Well, you need all ten, but you don't have to go deep in them. So even if you threw up a landing page, it doesn't have to be a full fledged website, right? But just to be able to put a stake in the ground, you need to have a strong LinkedIn presence. That's sort of non negotiable.
So I, I, I packaged them that way really specifically because I felt that that was the most understandable way to think about this laundry list. But if you want me to go out the book, I will, and I will read them out loud. But
Marc Beckman: I don't, I don't want you to grab the book and read them out loud, but I'm curious, um, maybe we, we put the cart before the horse, like what is a personal brand?
Aliza Licht: great question. So a lot of, well first of all, personal branding needs a new PR person. Let's start there. Because there is this stigma around personal branding. A lot of people are like, [00:18:00] that's cringy, or I don't, I don't want to be an influencer, or I'm not a celebrity, therefore I don't need to think about this.
This doesn't apply to me. And I wrote this book because it applies to everyone. And I think about personal branding in terms of your ability, and these are my subtitles, right? It's on brand, shape your narrative, share your vision, shift their perception. I think about personal branding in terms of, if you have a strong personal brand, your name is dropped in rooms you're not in.
And you're thought of for opportunities. So I'm going to talk to you today about how you can create a narrative that other people haven't heard of yet, and the reason why that is possible is because you have done that work. You have proactively shaped a narrative, you've communicated it to your network, your network understands your value or what you do or what you bring to the table, so they can essentially function as your [00:19:00] publicist when you're not there.
And unfortunately, a lot of people think, I think that if they do good work, someone's going to tap them on the shoulder and be like, you do good work. Like, you're going to get a promotion. Or, you do good work, here's an opportunity. And waiting around for someone to do that is not a strategy. So this whole idea of a personal brand is really focused on building equity in your own name.
And one of the principles that I write about in both, both my first book, Leave Your Mark, and this book, is you never want to suffer from last name syndrome. You asked me a lot of questions about DKNY PR Girl when we started. I was suffering from last name syndrome and you will understand what I mean immediately.
I was Aliza from DKNY and I worked with Virginia from Vogue. We all working for credible brands gave up our last names and replaced it with the brand that we work for. The problem with that [00:20:00] is what we do today may not be what we do tomorrow. So what happens? When you leave that role, which is what I experienced in the beginning of On Brand starts with me as the first case study.
I left after 17 years, becoming this famous social media personality to the point that I was introduced as, at parties, Oh, this is DKNY PR Girl, and I'd have to be like, actually, my name's Aliza Licht. But even more so, you know, it goes both ways. I leveraged it. It was great. So you leave, and you realize, wow.
I don't have an executive title anymore. I am not part of a brand that matters. I'm not part of LVMH. I don't have a garment allowance. I don't have an expense account. I am now naked on my own and now who am I? So I think for everyone who works for a credible company, not just in fashion, you could work for a bank, you could work anywhere, you have to think about what your name means in your industry naked.[00:21:00]
Like, not with the company actually supporting you from a credibility standpoint, and really working on that parallel path to building, you know, working on a business. Even if you're a founder, founders can be replaced.
Marc Beckman: Aliza, do you think that the concept of a personal brand has become so ubiquitous today because of the advent of technology and social media
Aliza Licht: Yes.
Marc Beckman: personal brands might not matter anymore? Or, is there something that is evolving the personal brand that people should be on the lookout for and, um, cultivating?
Aliza Licht: So, when I wrote On Brand, I very purposely made it equal for the people that are like, I want to build my personal brand online, to the people who were like, I'm not doing social media, I don't care what you say, Lisa. Except for LinkedIn, having like a strong LinkedIn presence.
Marc Beckman: that LinkedIn.
Aliza Licht: I love, well I think it's absolutely necessary.
[00:22:00] So there is a, there are a lot of successful people who have very strong personal brands who are not on social media. Social media made it easier to build a personal brand because you have all these tools at your disposal. But, you can certainly, so it's, it's really, you know, when we think about consumption, right?
People, and you think about, you know, making an impression, within seven seconds, somebody has an impression of you, right? So the question is, if you ask yourself the question, like, what do I want to be known for? If you want to be known, or there's a North Star goal that you have, and every time you interact with someone, you are not, or online or in person, you are not serving that goal, what are you doing?
Right? So people don't realize how much their in person interactions and their online interactions can actually get in the way of our progress. So my stance is Instead of [00:23:00] just letting things happen to you, why not think about how you can match your own self reflection to everyone else's public perception, right?
Because if those two things align, you're doing a great job. But if you think of yourself one way and everyone you work with or everyone around you sees you in a totally different way, it's a problem.
Marc Beckman: how do you know what people think of you? Right?
Aliza Licht: survey them. You survey them. Yeah, you survey them. I did it. I did it. For myself, it is tough. It is a tough thing. You can do it so people have anonymous submissions, where you're gonna get much more honest feedback, or you could do it with certain groups. You could do work people separately, or, you know, close friends, family separately.
But, if you, like if I said to you, Mark, okay, right now, think of what three adjectives would you in your head use to describe yourself professionally?
Marc Beckman: Yeah.
Aliza Licht: You, you would have three [00:24:00] words in your mind. And then if we polled people that work with you, would they say those same three things? That's just an easy example.
I mean, On Brand is, is a workbook also. So these prompts are in there, but you have to know. And You know, there are a lot of people who will, certainly within a corporate company, will say, you know, I'm working on, um, I'm working on my year in review, and I'd love to, you know, I'd love you to take this quick survey on how we worked together this year.
I mean, you, you have to ask people what their point of view is. And sometimes it hurts, and sometimes it's actually amazing to have a reflection back to yourself that you didn't even see in the beginning
Marc Beckman: one of the services that you provide as a consultant or within your agency helping CEOs or high profile people build their personal brand? Is that one of the core deliverables?
Aliza Licht: Yes, so since On Brand came out last April, I have started that service. So [00:25:00] essentially, I wrote On Brand from like a luxury fashion point of view, of like my work experience, working on marketing communications and later digital, and applying that, those tactics to people. So, I still consult with businesses, but, you know, the authors of the world, you know, the aspiring, um, Barbara Corcoran's of the world, I do work with them on their personal brands because a lot of people are looking out into the future saying, I want to write a book one day, or I want to launch a podcast, or I want to be on a board.
And it, it does help to, to proactively think in terms of like, okay, well, what does that mean? Like how, what, what bricks can we start laying down to get there?
Marc Beckman: Did you work with Barbara Corcoran? Is that one of your clients?
Aliza Licht: but I have a, a, a few real estate clients who are all aspiring to have that sort of empire.
Marc Beckman: have, [00:26:00] like, who, can you mention a household name that, that, you know, my audience might, um, might know, might be familiar with, who you've helped build their personal brand?
Aliza Licht: I don't know about household names because I think that they probably wouldn't know them, but for example, my client Liz Elding, she's one of Forbes richest self made women in America. She co founded the largest translation company in the world called TransPerfect.
Aliza Licht: And she came to me last year, uh, through actually the, an author who edited my book
Marc Beckman: how cool.
Aliza Licht: Lancaster, she introduced me to her and she said, listen, this woman is a powerhouse.
She's one of Forbes richest self made women. She's incredible. She's writing, um, she's writing a book. She has no personal brand. So I helped launch her book and she became, the book became a Wall Street Journal bestseller for a couple weeks. Yeah. So, so she had like a thousand followers on Instagram, like people don't know her, but what do you know?
So you have [00:27:00] someone so successful, so how do you get people to buy that book?
Marc Beckman: So it's funny when you look at personal branding, like one might surmise that the upshot could be money. It could be fame. It could be influence all of these different things. And for someone in your position, I would imagine like you need to not just look at what's happening with in the zeitgeist with current high profile personalities, like maybe a Barbara Corcoran, but I would imagine you're also studying historically big personalities too.
Aliza Licht: I'm really not studying anyone, to be honest, and no, I have to, I'm just being totally honest and I think this goes back to my, my strategy with Deque My PR Girl. I refused to follow other brands back then. I still do. I never wanted another brand strategy to be in my head. So I have blinders on. And I, everything that I do is self taught and got, got intuitive.
So I would say the majority of clients at this very [00:28:00] second are people who are also like want to build a personal brand, but are super uncomfortable putting themselves out
Marc Beckman: are some of the reasons why they're so uncomfortable?
Aliza Licht: I think there is a level of imposter syndrome to this, where you might not believe that, you know, you want to be a thought leader, but you might not be comfortable on camera, or you might not, even if you were writing out a post on LinkedIn, you might be I'm not going to be scared that it's going to land flat or people aren't going to receive it well.
So it is this, it's a little bit, it's consulting, but I actually think it's more therapy to be honest sometimes when I talk to people because it's getting them to understand. Actually I posted about this on Instagram like two days ago. You have to allow, you have to give yourself permission to take up space
Marc Beckman: so what is imposter syndrome technically? It's like basically the individual doesn't think that they could be what they're aspiring to be?
Aliza Licht: Yeah, it's like, I'm not worthy, I'm [00:29:00] not smart enough. There's so many things you can tell yourself to count yourself out, and one of the things that I recommend, and I talk about this a lot, is really, well, one, rebranding the fear, right? Identifying it, understanding where it's coming from, and then giving it a new angle, right?
But the other thing is to really, um, really digest this phrase, which is, if you're in the room, you belong there, right? And I think what happens is, like, think about someone who's on the rise in their career, right? You may get invited to a meet, a senior level meeting, and you're super nervous because you're the most junior person in the room, and you might be thinking to yourself, like, oh my god, like, I don't know if I'm smart enough to be here, I don't know, if someone, if someone asks me a question, like, I don't know if I'm the person to answer it, like, really start to think of all the negative things that would go wrong in a meeting like that.
My, my philosophy is if you're in the room you belong there, meaning stop focusing on that, stop focusing on if there's someone [00:30:00] more deserving, someone smarter, someone with more experience that can do a better job, and start focusing on what you can do now that you're in that room. What impression do you want to leave now that you're in that room?
Don't worry about how you got there. So really, um, thinking about that. And the other tactic, both of these things I recommend people just write on post its and stick them to your computer so you see them every day. The other post it is writing simply, why not me? It is a very simple question to ask yourself when you start to feel really insecure and I'll give you a personal example. When I left my corporate role, I had, I left on a Karen, I consulted for a while, then I went back in house to Allison Olivia for a couple years as head of marketing and communications. When I left, I really wanted to launch a podcast for Leave Your Mark. And I met with every single production company from Spotify to [00:31:00] Audible, you name it.
And every single person that I met with turned me down. I didn't have a big enough audience, I wasn't a celebrity, they're really focusing on celebrities now. It was, it was one no after the next. And I got really bummed about it. And then I was, I'll never forget, I was in my bed, I was like on my computer one night, and I said to myself, well, why not me?
Like I've always wanted to be Oprah, like why can't I have a podcast? So I literally Googled, how do you do a podcast? And I learned how to do a podcast, and I spoke to friends who have a podcast. So the point is, you can't answer that question, because it can be you. But if you're gonna psych yourself out because everyone says no to you, well what if you do it your, anyway?
Marc Beckman: how did you, at that moment, you're lying in bed and you're thinking about rejection after rejection after rejection, feeling shitty. How did you motivate yourself to [00:32:00] overcome that adversity and say, you know what, I have the strength inside, I'm a strong person, I'm going to go ahead and move this forward anyway.
Like, where did that strength come from? How were you motivated as an individual that's been rejected over and over again to launch into this awesome career that you have?
Aliza Licht: So, I would say that, I, I really, when I thought to myself, like, why, well, why not me? I guess that came from a place of knowing who I am. I have a very clear sense of self. And I am someone who knows what I'm great at and I know what I'm not great at. And I know that I'm really great at interviewing people.
So, in my mind, I was like, I know I could have a podcast, like this is, this is something that I know I could do. They're telling me no, but why are they in control of my podcast? And I was like, who gives them [00:33:00] permission to decide whether I can do this or not? So it was a little bit of like taking back control over like, well, I can take this into my own hands.
And I believe a lot of success for people comes from just not waiting for the opportunity, but making the opportunity. And I do that for a, I have many examples in my life of actually doing that because I'm not going to wait around for someone to notice that I'm good at what I do.
Marc Beckman: What, what is like the best example of you being aggressive, going out and grabbing what it is that you wanted? What it was that you wanted?
Aliza Licht: so I really want, I want my own show, essentially, like I really do want my own show in some capacity, and I have done quite a bit of TV from a news perspective, and post October 7th, I have been curating news that I think is important for people to know, and one night. There was so much news [00:34:00] and I wanted to talk about all of it but you know a 90 second reel is only so long and I thought to myself you know what I'm gonna make this into my own mini show and of course I'm a brand girl so immediately I'm like I'm gonna call it the daily salad like I literally I went on Canva I made a logo like I am Very impulsive, like I don't put a lot of strategy into things, I just really feel it.
I'm like, I'm gonna make my own, I'm not gonna wait for someone to give me a talk show, I'm gonna make my own talk show. And that has become its own thing. So now people expect it, they know about it, and it's just on Instagram, it's not like it's, you know, on, next to Jon Stewart. But, I feel very confident
Marc Beckman: people watch Instagram than Jon Stewart now. More people are taking in content on TikTok than Jon Stewart
Aliza Licht: Yeah, so I, I feel very confident that when you show people what you can do and you take control of that narrative yourself, [00:35:00] people start to think of you that way, right? So it's like, I don't know, if Jon Stewart wants to put a new snarky new show on, maybe he'll be like, someone will be like, hey, have you ever seen the Daily Salad?
I don't know. But I feel like you have to manifest that. And I'm going to be talking about how you can trust these realities, or these things to become realities, and you can make them your own reality. And I'm having a lot of fun doing it.
Marc Beckman: awesome. Aliza, I want to go back to like, you gave a, um, like a golden nugget of marketing, um, tip just a little while ago. You said for your own brand and throughout your career, you work with blinders. And effectively, like I interpret this as you're working in a way where you're not going to look at what everybody else is doing specifically because you don't want to be with them, be like them rather, or be like that brand.
Why? What's the reason that you wouldn't want to be like these other brands that are perhaps competitors in the marketplace and beyond?
Aliza Licht: Because there's nothing [00:36:00] I love more than original ideas. And I think that, and my whole career, I have really strived to innovate in a way that was different than anyone else. So for example, while everyone's going to fashion conferences I would go to conferences from other industries, like I wanted to see, I didn't want to be consuming the same thing that everyone in my industry was consuming.
I wanted fresh ideas, so I, that is just how I roll, and I think, I think there is probably, I am a very competitive person, and I compete with myself. And for me, I I also very much trust my gut, so if I feel something, like, I've never had a content strategy. I've never scheduled posts, like, I am someone who, I have to feel it to actually produce that piece of content and put it out [00:37:00] there, whether it was DKNY PR Girl or Myself.
So I am someone who is led by my gut, and my gut has never let me down.
Marc Beckman: I think it's really good advice, like, not just for the individual's personal brand, but for, like, luxury houses, contemporary brands, uh, tech brands, hospitality brands, like, things are becoming too watered down, they're too vanilla today, and I think this comes into play where, you know, Uh, CMOs don't want to take risks anymore.
They're afraid that if they step out with a singular voice and a singular vision, they will scare people away and consumption won't occur. Transactions will be limited. I actually think it's the opposite. I think people today are looking, they're working in tribes, and they're looking for very specific, narrowly construed voices.
I'm curious from your perspective, which brands have done a great job at not becoming vanilla?
Aliza Licht: Mmm. Reformation.
Marc Beckman: How come?
Aliza Licht: I [00:38:00] think they're, I think they, I don't, they're not precious with themselves. I think that's the other thing going back to like the CMO thing, like brands that take risk are just more exciting. Like I was looking, so I was, someone showed me a post the other day about Reformation and I want to also clarify when I talk about having the blinders on, especially, you know, being DKNY PR girl for six years.
I didn't want to copy anyone. And for me personally, I, I, I really, like some people are like, Oh, you should follow, you know, other people who do personal branding. Like, no, I don't want to see anybody who focuses on personal branding. Like, I don't. But, in my book, because it helps people, It helps people understand where they fit in the world.
One of the exercises is, who do you follow that you would like to model behavior of because you think, and why, why do you think they do a great job? And who do you follow that you want to avoid the behavior because every time you see their [00:39:00] content you cringe. So it's not to say that it's a bad thing, it's just not what I like to do.
But sometimes people show me other people's posts so I do see, obviously.
Marc Beckman: Reformation's done a good, you're saying Reformation is like a
Aliza Licht: They're not scared. They're not, they're not scared. I mean, I would say, I'm trying to think who else takes a lot of risk. Um,
Marc Beckman: happens, like, I don't even remember, like, when's the last time a brand took a risk and failed and then went out of business or something terrible happened? Like, have you ever seen, like, who could you reference? Not a personal brand, I'm talking about corporation,
Aliza Licht: I mean, Budweiser had a little bit of a, a tough time, uh, last year, right? With, um, Dylan. I, I, I think, I think, you know, the world is very polarized now. So, you may choose an ambassador, as your face of your brand and you know 50 percent of the population may think that that's a bad
Marc Beckman: but do the, but do the brands care? Like, [00:40:00] for example,
Aliza Licht: oh they cared they
Marc Beckman: the pandemic, Nike, before the pandemic, Nike hung its hat on pro social, social justice initiatives, and it seemed like they alienated 50 percent of their existing fan base, but yet today, The company is stronger and frankly the brand has more equity than it has historically.
So are some brands Teflon? Like do they just not get hurt from any risk or any decision that they make? Because here you are, you're saying Budweiser took the risk. Nike took a very similar risk in the social justice landscape, but yet Nike's thriving. Budweiser got hit hard. Bud Light, it was Bud Light specifically, right?
Aliza Licht: yeah so i think those are two very different brands i think one they have to know who their audience is and their audience bud weiser's audience or bud light whatever i don't drink it
Marc Beckman: Bud Light.
Marc Beckman: Bud Light, that's not who they want to see as holding a can of soda, right? Or beer, rather. [00:41:00] Um, Nike is best in class, Nike, I think also you have to remember, like, after the social justice sort of uprising of 2020, there was this moment where we were very, it was like almost like Nike doing that with Collin was.
This was almost the first example that you were like, wow, this is really a stake in the ground. And then other companies started putting a stake in the ground in different ways, right? We've come a long way since then, where I think we're at a point now where companies are sick and tired of having the consumer tell them what to do.
So I think there are, there's management that has a point of view, there's, there's brands that have a core value statement where they're like, this fits within our brand guardrails and we are going to do it. And I also think we're, we're at a point where, and this is not like, you know, a [00:42:00] zero sum statement, but cancel culture doesn't really exist anymore when you think about it.
We've gotten to the point where it was so prevalent and people got taken down. Um, and then, they sort of came, they didn't kill anyone, they sort of, people have bounced back. So I think that everyone is at a point where, one, I don't think they want to hear from companies anymore on any of these issues. I think we're actually at a point where people just want to buy a product and not have to think about anything political.
But that's my, that's my take.
going back to your comment regarding cancel culture. Do you think that we're at a place where people are so afraid of cancel culture that they are just not expressing what they actually want to express?
Aliza Licht: Well, I'm sure many people won't express what they actually want to, but I also think that it [00:43:00] is a very effective way to build a following, to have a very strong point of view. And even a commer uh, con even a controversial point of view. will get you a very strong following. So, in On Brand, I talk about this.
I actually, the title is, Can We Please Cancel, Cancel Culture? And I, and I, uh, the chapter is about what I call zero fucks given branding. I hope I can curse on this show, because I just did. It's called, the chapter's called Zero Fucks, Zero Fucks Given Branding. Who, who does that? Donald Trump does that.
Elon Musk does that. Um, Anna Delvey, Anna Sorokin does that. It is this, this mentality that I don't care if I offend you. I don't care, your, your opinion doesn't matter to me. I will find my audience. And they do. [00:44:00] The trick is, you have to have the stomach to deal with the haters. But those personalities, they don't care about their haters.
Their haters fuel them. And just like a car crash, they Their haters love to watch them, so when you think about Donald Trump joining TikTok, what, like a week ago? He has 5. 6 million followers. I'm sure half of those people hate him.
Marc Beckman: They want to watch their car crash.
Aliza Licht: They want to, it's, they want to watch it. They want to watch, it's entertainment. It's entertainment. Personal,
Marc Beckman: touching, you're kind of like reverting back. Um, I want to play a fun game with you. Basically, I want to see who you think has done a better job. So for example, starting with just pure personal branding, who's done it better? Elon Musk or Kim Kardashian? You have to pick one,
Aliza Licht: personal branding, not their business.
Marc Beckman: personal branding, not their business. This is
Aliza Licht: I,
Marc Beckman: Kim, [00:45:00] or Elon?
Aliza Licht: no, it's a great question. I think that Elon has, because Kim, you really don't get a sense of Kim. Her brand, her personal brand to me is not as defined. I think she's done an amazing job with her brand, her Skims brand, and what she's been able to build. But I can't tell you, I have no idea what her point of view is on anything, essentially.
Like, I don't feel like she speaks a lot. I, you can see her and you can watch her show, but personally, aside from like what she aligns with materialistically and how she lives, I don't get a sense of her brand. Other than excess, Elon is very outspoken. I could create a map today of every single thing So I think that he is for and against, and I also think that he's very clear on where [00:46:00] he stands, and he doesn't care if you agree or not.
She's, you know, more wishy washy in between, like to me, I don't think she has such a strong presence as an individual. She has a strong brand as a business. That's just my point of
Marc Beckman: Okay, let's shift gears for a second and think in terms of more of a nightmare type of personal branding situation. Um, like these are people that built up amazing brands and then just absolutely destroyed it, shredded it. Which one do you think is the worst scenario? Michael Jackson or Diddy?
Aliza Licht: Oh, gosh. Um. I can, I mean, I think the proof is in the pudding. I think Diddy, uh, at this very moment, also because Michael's music lives on. Like even after everything we've seen, every single thing we've seen, [00:47:00] Neverland and the pedophile, all that, all that stuff, no one ever pulls his music off of iTunes or Spotify.
Like he was not canceled. Right? So.
Marc Beckman: brand. That brand is so
Aliza Licht: It's a Teflon brand and that is an interesting, um, an interesting segue would be that does talent, does, does genius level talent, is that the loophole
for cancel culture? Because no one's giving up that music.
Marc Beckman: Superior product, extraordinarily talented, you could look beyond it. So, like you had mentioned earlier, Roger Waters and Pink Floyd. Can you, assuming you're a Pink Floyd fan, can you look beyond Roger Waters antisemitism?
Aliza Licht: No. No, because he has, he has. What's, what's more than quadrupled? He, he just double, he keeps on doubling down on it. Like, he is, [00:48:00] every time he speaks, he reinforces his hatred of Jews. He doesn't let you forget it every time he speaks. So, no, because he is a constant remark, he, he wants you to know, he wants you to hate him because he hates you.
So he's, he's, he's despicable. I also think that Michael Jackson. You know, when we think about the crazy scandals we see today, I don't know, Michael Jackson's scandal, was it like as big as some of the horrible things we've seen people do today? Did you watch that video of Diddy beating the crap out of his girlfriend in the hotel?
Marc Beckman: did, I saw it, it's absolutely outrageous, but if one of the Michael Jackson allegations is true, that, you know, is, is
Aliza Licht: But why didn't it ever go to, why didn't it ever get tried?
Marc Beckman: Well, it's, it's very interesting, actually, Aliza, because it shows this dynamic that you were talking about earlier between a personal brand. And the public, [00:49:00] right?
So it's almost like your fans might be willing to look beyond what they believe is terrible because they like thriller better than they care about the children. Right? Like maybe that's the case. Like they can oversee for superior product, for extraordinary talent. They can oversee that dark hall.
Aliza Licht: you a great example in my own household. Kanye West, huge anti Semite, Jonathan, my son, college student, loves Kanye's music. He was like, do I have to stop listening to that? I'm like, yes. He, he wants you dead. But he didn't. I'm sure he still listens to it. I'm sure he does. Because it's a superior product.
Marc Beckman: Well, well, here's the thing with, with Kanye that I want to ask you. So if we move now away from this, you know, nightmare scenario, uh, Michael Jackson versus Diddy, let's talk about like the best comeback personal brand, like the Phoenix Rising story. Bill [00:50:00] Clinton? Or Kanye, because Kanye has come back, right?
Like, it's almost, he had that whole nightmare scenario to his personal brand. He went wild, was totally anti Semitic. The Gap pulled him, Adidas, you know, Adi kicked him out, da da da da da. But I feel like, you know, here you are telling me that your Jewish, college aged son and his friends are listening to him and might've even purchased something from him recently.
So is that a comeback in his personal brand? Are those two Phoenix personal brand stories, Bill Clinton and Kanye, and who did a better job?
Aliza Licht: don't think Kanye has come back. I do not, I do not think he has come back. I think that he is still very much cancelled. I think that he, am I crazy, or did we even hear that he's like, almost bankrupt, or like, serious financial issues because he's lost so many deals? So I think he is still dead and buried, as far as I'm concerned.
Now, I would say that his [00:51:00] music, I mean, the most recent track that he came out with was also anti Semitic, so he is also someone who is doubling, tripling down like Roger Waters in his hate, so I don't think that he's come back. Bill Clinton, however, great comeback. Great comeback. Donald Trump, great comeback.
Marc Beckman: Okay. So you said earlier, um, politics doesn't need to be in everything, right? You kind of imply that and, um, I guess my question is, I wasn't going to go here, but since you mentioned Donald Trump, who are the best political brands out there right now? Would you say Trump is the strongest political brand?
Trump versus Biden from a branding perspective, not a policy perspective.
Aliza Licht: I, well, I can, TikTok will answer this question for you. Joe Biden's TikTok, which was announced maybe last month, official TikTok, has like 360, 000 followers.
Marc Beckman: That's dismal. sticking with the political [00:52:00] personal branding, who do you think has been doing a fantastic job at personal branding in American politics as of late?
Aliza Licht: John Fetterman?
Marc Beckman: I totally agree.
Aliza Licht: I mean, I want to Hug him. I love him. I
Marc Beckman: I was with him backstage in Washington DC. I was giving a speech and he was in the green room with me and I actually went over to him and I hugged him and I thanked him and he was fantastic. I hugged him. He thought I was crazy. That's
Aliza Licht: jealous. I'm actually really jealous. So, I think Jon Fetterman and Richie Torres, because they're standing by their values, and they don't care about the backlash that they're facing. And that is so Rare in the world we live in, especially for politicians. And I just, I mean, I literally, I mean, I, I donate quite a bit to both of them because I just think they're incredible,
incredible really great. So let's talk, um, one last [00:53:00] contest, consumer brands. I think it's interesting. Um, today, Donna Karan. The brand, right now, today, Donna Karan versus Gucci. That face. Donna Karan versus Gucci. Who's doing a better job branding today?
I think they're, they're both irrelevant at this very second, but
Marc Beckman: Irrelevant.
Aliza Licht: I'll tell you why. Um, so I think that, listen, the Donna Karan I know is a luxury brand. But Donna Karan today is. 59 for a dress, like it's not the same. And I don't think that it, it, it actually matters. I think when you see, and there has been quite a few people on the red carpet this year who have been wearing vintage Donna Karan, which shows the longevity of the original [00:54:00] designed by Donna Karan herself, collection.
And the design integrity of, of that brand, which is not the same as today, new ownership, new everything, has staying power, because now we're more than 30 years beyond, you know, what launched in 1985 was the first collection. Gucci has reinvented themselves so many times, and I, you know, I remember When Tom Ford started at Gucci, I know all the moments of this sort of reinvention.
I think at the point that Alessandra left was at the point where we stopped caring about it and it started to become overdone and old. and I do think when you have teenage kids it's like having your own focus group. So, I also like to see [00:55:00] what my kids gravitate to, or my kids think are cool, and there was a moment in time where Gucci was everything, and my son Jonathan was very good taste, like he really doesn't look at that brand anymore, and I don't look at that brand
Marc Beckman: Which brand does he look at? What do New York City cool teenage kids need now?
Aliza Licht: Need or like?
Marc Beckman: Want.
Aliza Licht: Want. I mean, he, he has extremely, um, expensive taste. Loro Piana is a, and what's interesting about Loro Piana is the quiet luxury aspect of it, where it's truly, if you know, you know, there's no logos, there's no anything you probably, if you don't know it, you would never look at it, but if you see someone wearing it.
And you, [00:56:00] you know, have a discerning eye and you understand fashion, you, like, you know that, that says something about who you
Marc Beckman: Top of the pinnacle. Undeniable. I totally agree. Aliza, let's get back to personal branding. I've got a couple more questions for you and then I'm going to let you go. Thank you. You're
Aliza Licht: Yes.
Marc Beckman: should a person start personal branding?
Aliza Licht: Oh, in high school. In high school, and I'll tell you why, because I actually spoke to my son's graduating class before he graduated high school. They called me and the school called me in to do an on brand talk. Because these kids are starting their internships, they're starting interviewing, they're starting to show up in, you know, in the real world as adults.
What they do online matters. So, truly, high school, I would say my first book, Leave Your Mark, is definitely, um, you know, that's really a career guide of like [00:57:00] how work works. Touching on some personal branding, but not a lot, but on brand, I'm I mean, I forced him to read it. He did not want to read it, even though he's my son.
Forced him to read it because so much of understanding how it's not about networking, it's about relationship building and how you cultivate, you know, your network is your currency. And that starts the minute you start going into a work environment. It starts in college when you're joining clubs. So it truly is something that needs to be thought of.
Way earlier than people think of it.
Marc Beckman: What about on the other side, Aliza, is it ever too late to concentrate on your personal brand?
Aliza Licht: I don't believe it is. I just think you have to be willing to put in the work.
Marc Beckman: Is it easy to reinvent yourself?
Aliza Licht: I think it is if you put in the work. So On Brand has these mental gymnastics exercises and the workbook pages are built into the book, both [00:58:00] hardcover and paperback. I have friends who are like, Oh my God, I love your book. I read it.
I didn't, I didn't do the exercises though, but like, I love them. And I'm like. But you need to do the exercises because I can't give you, I can't hand you your personal brand.
Marc Beckman: Aliza, have you reinvented yourself a little bit? Like your personal brand is
Aliza Licht: Many times.
Marc Beckman: but I mean, right now specifically, um, you've gone from fashion and luxury and media. And right now you have a very, very strong personal brand as it aligns with Israel.
Aliza Licht: Yes. So I have rein, I have reinvented my brand twice personally You know, and especially thinking and obviously creating a personal brand really for DKNY PR girl in of herself, if you think of her as a character. I wrote a piece on LinkedIn called, that was titled, Being a Jewish Activist Wasn't on Brand for Me.[00:59:00]
I didn't think it was on brand for me, and I wrote about this idea of How our brands can evolve and how you think in terms of what might be right for you today may be different in a year from now. So, thank you. My personal, so I wrote a piece on this because I think it was very important to talk about the fact that I didn't see myself that way.
I didn't, there was zero interest in becoming an activist in any way, shape, or form. And I didn't see it as something that I would do, but that is what has happened. So I wanted to talk about it from a brand perspective because I think You know, part of what I write in On Brand is like, it does matter what you choose to align with.
You know, when we think about what's on brand for you, it's what you say, it's what you do, it's what you don't say, it's what you don't do, it's what you choose to align with. It's in your mannerisms, your attitude, your energy, like all the [01:00:00] things. So I didn't identify as that, but it became that, and I wanted to acknowledge it.
And, and sort of memorialize this moment of change because I thought it was really important to do that.
Marc Beckman: I agree. I agree. So, Aliza, every single guest I have, um, at the end of my show finishes a sentence for me. I start with the beginning of the sentence, um, by highlighting the name of the show, Some Future Day, and then I allow for my guests to finish it. Are you game?
Aliza Licht: Yeah.
Marc Beckman: Okay. In some future day, artificial intelligence will impact personal branding Bye.
Aliza Licht: Well, it's already happening though. Today is the future. Today is the future, right? Um, artificial intelligence will impact personal branding by making it easier to become who you want to be through a [01:01:00] myriad of ways. Technology and tools, but also through the idea of truly reinventing yourself and creating a new persona for yourself that doesn't exist, but could exist.
Depending on the circles you travel in, like right now, we know you can have an avatar, right, that represents you in the metaverse. One day, um, that might be how we all communicate, by our avatars. And I think, you know, that is really, I mean, I use a lot of AI in a lot of the work that I do. So I feel like that future day is, is now, really.
Marc Beckman: I love it. Aliza, thank you so much for being so generous, not just with your time, honestly, with your thoughtful insight and storytelling. It's really been an enjoyable conversation for me. Is there anything else that you'd like to add? Do you feel like you want to put a cherry on top with anything?
Aliza Licht: Well first of all, [01:02:00] thank you for asking such great questions. Mark. I really enjoyed them and I, you know, I would say, I would say this, I think that I wanna leave people realizing that being self-reflective in everything that you do is actually a luxury of time. You know, people don't take the time to really think about what do I wanna be known for?
What is my North Star goal? And, I think it's a luxury that people should afford themselves, and one of the things that we didn't touch on in this talk, but I'll leave people with is, repetition is reputation. The more you do something, the more you become known for that thing, so being mindful of what you are repeating is really
Marc Beckman: awesome, Aliza. I agree. I think some of the best branders Keep it simple and keep on repeating. There really is no silver bullet. Lisa, thank you again, and I hope you have a great day. [01:03:00] [01:04:00]