Exploring Toxic Wellness with Lillian, the Gen Z Perspective

- Host: Lauren McLaughlin
- Lauren introduces the focus of the episode: Exploring real life outside the studio and the doctor's office, focusing on health and well-being in today's world.

Guest
- Lillian, a Gen Z'er trying to navigate the complexities of the world today. Bonus: She's Lauren's daughter!

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Topics Covered:

Mental Health Discussions:
   - The importance of discussing mental health, especially in younger generations.
   - Lillian's perspective as a Gen Z'er and the unique challenges they face.
   - Lauren reflects on generational differences in approaching mental health.

Generation Views & Values:
   - The lack of validation and seriousness towards Gen Z and Millennial concerns.
   - The misconception of "flipping the switch" to happiness.

Seeking the Right Conversations
   - The need for meaningful conversations rather than surface-level advice.
   - The internet's role in knowledge and exposure for the younger generation.

Wellness Culture & Its Toxicity:
   - The commodification of wellness and its superficial nature.
   - The desire of Gen Z and Millennials to redefine the term wellness.
   - The pitfalls of a culture focused on perfection and aesthetics.

Escapism & Nature:
   - Lillian's experience on the Appalachian Trail and seeking escape.
   - The healing properties of nature and connecting with others on the trail.

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Key Quotes:
- "Mental health as a concept has been out there for a while, but are we really addressing the issue?" - Lillian
- "We can't just flip a switch. That's not how emotions work." - Lillian
- "I don't think we want to be talked down to; we just want to be listened to and heard." - Lillian
- "Our generation as parents navigating parenting and trying to have communication with our children has not been easy." - Lauren
- "Sometimes it just feels like we're all set up to fail." - Lillian

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Lauren and Lillian emphasize the importance of understanding, empathizing, and changing the narrative around mental health and well-being, especially for younger generations. The conversation highlights the need for genuine connection and understanding across generations.

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Links & Resources:
- [Y Pulse articles](https://www.ypulse.com/)
- [Appalachian Trail Information](https://www.appalachiantrail.org/)

Creators and Guests

Host

Lauren McLaughlin

HI! I am Lauren, a speaker, author, retreat guide and the Founder of Conscious Strong™. I love helping women unlock the pathway to peak performance and enlightenment in everyday living and movement. Having been a master-certified Pilates instructor and brain health practitioner for the past two decades, I have had the pleasure and experience to witness life transformations in 1000's of clients. As a mother of five children, I totally understand the challenges of balancing a busy family and career. It all takes patience and persistence. The Conscious Strong™ lifestyle comes purely from my journey to find balance and fulfillment in all areas of life. From my perspective, there are no limitations!

What is The Other Side of the Studio?

Are you navigating through major life transitions? Do you feel like you're standing at a crossroads, seeking balance and purpose? Our podcast is here to be your compass.

Each episode features experts from the wellness space, survivors, overcomers, and authentic stories of people reclaiming their health holistically. Our aim? To guide you through the nuances of life's transitions, reminding you that every shift, every change is an opportunity for growth.

Dive deep into the harmony of life with a podcast that embraces the whole of living, not just its segments. Rooted in the timeless teachings of Pilates, we journey through the seven pillars of a well-balanced life: Spiritual, Emotional, Physical, Sleep Health, Nutrition, Relationship, and Financial. Our mission? To empower you to become your own medicine, to embrace transitions, and live a Conscious Strong™ life. For women 45+, especially those navigating major life transitions, this is your invitation to discover, relate, and thrive. Join us for authentic stories, expert insights, and a fresh perspective on wellness.

Hosted by Lauren McLaughlin, a speaker, author, retreat guide, and the Founder of Conscious Strong™

Lauren McLaughlin: [00:00:00] All right, so welcome to another episode of The Other Side of the Studio, where we talk about real life outside of the studio, outside of the doctor's office, that will help you find the way to become your own medicine. So it's all about health and well being, and boy are we needing it today. So today's guest, I am beyond excited and honored to have.

Lillian Fitz, who is navigating as a Gen Z er, this space of this crazy world that we are living in, and really trying to seek the answers from, you know, her position as a Gen Z er. So welcome, Lillian. I am so honored to have my daughter visiting as my guest today. [00:01:00] good to be here. Excellent. Thank you so much for agreeing to come live with your your opinions and your brilliant mind because I love the conversations that we have.

Many of them have been confrontational. Many of them have been debatable. That's why I adore those conversations because you come at your position with a lot of passion. So welcome. We have talked about a lot of topics [00:02:00] over our years, and one, no doubt, has been very forward, especially over the past, I would say, six years or even longer, is the topic of mental health.

And I know that you have a very strong position and feeling and some experience with dealing with mental health, yeah, I mean,

Lillian: me and like, many people in my generation, it's just been a struggle, you know, ever since I was, what, like, 12 or something?

And then it just kind of has gotten worse, you know, especially in high school. Mental health as a concept you know, it's kind of been out there for the past, like, decade, and it bothers me that we're still, like, oh, we need to, like, talk about it more, we need to start having these conversations, but, again, you know, we, we have these conversations, I just don't think we're having the right conversations, I don't think that we're really addressing the issue

Lauren McLaughlin: I think your generation, Gen Zers, or even [00:03:00] Millennials, are not taken seriously. Their, their views and values. are not valued or heard. And I think that plays a huge role in, you know, how we view mental health and, you know, my generation, and these are exact words from you many years ago, was like, mom.

We can't just flip a switch and I'm going, well, yes, you can. You can wake up and say, I'm happy. And you're going, absolutely not. That is ridiculous. , well, first

Lillian: of all, I don't think, like, this is new that You know, I think older, the older generations have always looked down on the younger generations and kind of want to tell them what to do.

And when it comes to mental health, especially for, I guess, like teenagers who are starting to feel these new complex feelings for the first time and having these like new thoughts. [00:04:00] You know, a lot of adults just want to shut that down and say, well, you're a kid. What do you know? And, you know, I mentioned this earlier about I think a lot of people underestimate just how, you know, like middle schoolers, high schoolers, people in their early twenties, how much they really know and how much awareness they have.

Because thanks to the Internet, we are exposed to so much the good and the bad we have. You know, just a wealth of information at our fingertips. And so, you know, we do know stuff and you know, the feelings that we have, they are real and they don't need to be invalidated. And, you know, a lot of the solutions that, You know, your generation or boomers like to prescribe, it doesn't, you know, give room for any sort of nuance.

But also I don't think that we want to be like talked [00:05:00] down to, we just want to be listened to and heard. You know, I think that's what everyone

Lauren McLaughlin: wants. Yeah. I don't know. No, I think, no, it's prompting me to have emotions around that as well, because, you know, as a Gen Xer and then kind of really on the edge of the boomer to generations, not quite there.

I can't call myself a boomer, but it's that maybe there's a little bit of fear and we know that fear, It evokes a lot of not pleasant, you know, responses or effective communication styles because if we approach communication from fear, then it's going to be all wrong. And I will admit, you know, maybe it is that your generations with now, you know, the internet and information immediately accessible, that I do feel like we may fear the, that you know more than we do now.

But it has had [00:06:00] you, and I've witnessed it, advance far more, you know, than we had to do it by textbook. We had to do it old school way, we are not getting rid of the computers now, or the internet.

It's only, like, speeding forward. So the encyclopedias are gone. They're obsolete. It's obsolete, except now online. So I agree with you, but it just made me think, huh, our generation as parents who are navigating parenting and trying to have communication with our children has not been easy. Yeah. Not been easy.

And I think a lot of it does come both sides from having some fear. Mm-hmm. , you know, it's like maybe you do know more than I do and oh my gosh, you know, . Yeah. I mean,

Lillian: I don't. Yeah, I don't think that younger people know more again. We just kind of like we're dealing with you know, a different set of tools, I guess.

And, you know, in a different environment. But yeah, we don't really know [00:07:00] what those tools are all the time. Like I've had, I'm still figuring out like how, you know, to regulate my emotions you know, and just how to deal with stuff. But, yeah. Yeah, I guess as I, as I was saying earlier, you know, adults kind of like to just be like, Oh, you should do this.

You should do that. But, you know, there's no room for nuance. There's no room for really you know, understanding where we're coming from.

Lauren McLaughlin: I mean we do It's like this way or the highway or you know My father used to say Noah fans are butts.

This is just how it is. You're going but wait a minute. Wait This is how I feel. I remember having those feelings of going, but wait a minute, you don't understand me. So I know that we've had numerous conversations where you've said the same back, like you just don't understand, you know, where I am and I, you know, and, and you were right.

I mean, it's like, I can't put myself in your shoes. Just like you can't put my yourself in my shoes and how I [00:08:00] experienced those years, which is just the human experience, right? With the internet and the exposure now we are seeing so much more like unpleasant things than we were exposed to because of lack of, you know, Oh yeah.

Yes. You

Lillian: know, I think a lot of people don't like address their trauma until they're like well into adulthood. And so, you know, but like, again, by the time they're really kind of doing that inner work, they have more freedom. They have, you know, financial independence. They kind of have a foundation, whereas, you know, young people, they don't, you know, they're still controlled.

They have to go to school. They have to live with their parents or whoever. You know, they just don't have a lot of control over their lives, which can be really upsetting when you... You know, when you're struggling inside and no one is really there to give you the support that you need.

Lauren McLaughlin: I was reading an article earlier and I didn't bring that one with me. [00:09:00] But it was about Western Europe is probably a little bit more advanced in having these conversations in the home. Because in truth, everything starts in the home. And if, you know, if the home is unstable.

high likely chance that life outside of the home is going to be unstable, whether it's school, whether it's relationships with peers or choosing the wrong friend groups. So now that I am hearing more of talk and openness about mental health, it's very forward right now, but you and I were driving over here and having this conversation about do we feel that here in the US, here in North America, do we feel like we are You know, making progress to meet what other countries are now really bringing as the top, you know, conversations that they're having in their homes, checking in with all family members, the kids, even the parents, and navigating through, you know, a lot of post [00:10:00] pandemic the transition that is very stressful and concerning and scary and how it's affecting everyone in the home.

Lillian: A lot of these countries, you know, they have free access to health care. Education is just better. And so I think that, and I think work environment as well is probably less toxic, like places like Sweden, you get like five weeks off of paid vacation.

And in here you just like in this country, you just don't have those things. And so, you know, the, the toxic work culture, I think definitely impacts, you know, mental health and why mental illness is just continuing to going up. And because, you know, I just don't think that we're seen as like real people.

We're just, you know, people who just have to go out into the world and work and earn money. And that's kind of it.

Lauren McLaughlin: , I don't have the current stats on this, but, you know, in raising [00:11:00] You and my children, you're the youngest of five and seeing, you know, your older sister's generation, which is the same, you know, she's a millennial, but having her, right.

Is she, she's a gen Z. She's gen Z as well. 98, which is like, right. Yep. She's gen Z as well, but. I have never in my life, which saddened me, have heard of more suicides and it was, it makes me want to cry when I hear that, that these children are suffering and feeling that that is the only option is to not, you know, is to take a life and you know.

I, I, your generation, I mean your class or your group, I didn't hear as much, but with your sisters it just was off the charts and I thought what is going on from the drug use to She went

Lillian: through the public school system and I

Lauren McLaughlin: didn't. Oh, there you go. That might be a difference there. So, [00:12:00] education is definitely at its weakest, and we just were told that it is even going even further down, as I think most of us know for paying attention, and it's very concerning.

So, you know, I agree. I feel like that that is one factor, but again, home life, you know, like, and, and it's like. Most homes are dual working homes where both parents are having to work or it's a single parent home. There are many single parent homes now, which is very difficult with the cost of raising a child escalating.

Because of all of you, especially now with, you know, the inflation and, you know, post pandemic, we are seeing just, you know, the cost of just groceries or just crazy insane. So any reflection on that? I'm sort of just kind of talking about topics that are coming forward, but why don't we jump to, you know, just some of the reports that I pulled [00:13:00] earlier.

Which this is around social causes, but what's at the top and consistently across the top is mental health, help, and care, and the concern that, as you mentioned, That, you know, there are other countries in European countries where, you know, health care is accessible. It's, you know, we don't want to say free, but it is accessible just through how they navigate, you know, their system.

And here we struggle. many have said that they don't go get help because they can't afford it. I know that this is a little, maybe. Ahead of your age group right now because you haven't fully experienced being out there. But share a little bit about that because I know you express a lot about money concerns, which is going to be a whole other topic, but the fear of money, right?

And then how it's impacting the ability to go get the right care.

Lillian: Sometimes it just feels like we're [00:14:00] all set up to fail in a way. Like, you know, college is super expensive now, and that's always been, you know, like, that should be the life path to success. You graduate really well with straight A's from high school, you go to a nice college, and then you get a nice job.

But, since, you know, it's like a lot of people can't afford university, and even if you do get in, whether it's with scholarships or, you know, family's able to pay, you're not even guaranteed, like, a good job after that. So it's just, it's very disheartening and, you know, it kinda just feels hopeless sometimes yeah, it's just, it's, it's very frustrating and, like, even Middle class, upper middle class families still have to, are still burdened by medical bills.

And no one should be burdened by medical bills. That's insane. And, yeah, it's just, when you, when I hear about you talking [00:15:00] about, like, all the kind of bills you have to pay... It's overwhelming. It's really overwhelming. And it's just, you know, in the back of my head, I'm like, damn, like, am I ever going to just have time to relax or not worry about this

Lauren McLaughlin: or.

I don't know. Yeah. No. I, I get it. And we were having lunch just the other day and in my office building and you wanted to know how much the new apartments are going for in your search for an apartment these days. Yeah. And you look it up and it was just the disappointment that I saw and you're going, Oh my gosh, that is like for one bedroom, it's 1, 600 a month.

Yeah. At least. At least. And you know, that is here in our hometown in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. And that's, you know, daunting

Lillian: Just feels like struggle is like inevitable, or like that it's necessary.

And I just think that's, I just don't agree with that. I just don't think people should have to struggle in order to get the life that they [00:16:00] want. Yeah. Because, you know, I think what people want nowadays is just, you know, to be able to afford groceries, to be able to buy a house, you know, just kind of basic things.

Yeah. Of course, you know, I guess that is... Privileged because not everyone can get those things, but you know, yeah, yeah, I think everyone should get those things. Yeah,

Lauren McLaughlin: especially in this country. Yeah, no, I agreed. And you know, that's a whole nother topic that I feel like we could have so many conversations.

You know, the work I do, and we've had numerous conversations around health. and well being navigating this mental health space and the challenges and I know that I have always said, if you just move your body and if you find the, you know, that's going to help.

It's your best medicine. Breath work and, and, and exercise, truly it's proven. We know that. Mm hmm. And, and, and I know that you've agreed you can expand on that from your perspective you've heard your mother and [00:17:00] sharing, you know, just if you get up and you exercise and you can turn this switch on

Lillian: as you know, I've been like working out a lot more and it does make you feel good.

You know, I'm not gonna deny that. And there's empirical evidence to prove that, you know, exercise is great physically and mentally. But I guess it's back to what I was saying earlier about, you know the younger generations, we don't want to be talked down to, and we want to just be listened to first, you know, before you try and like, give us advice, you know, or whatever you think will solve our problems.

We really just want to be heard. I think that's, you know, missing. We don't, oh, just drink more water, or, you know, breathe this certain way, or just like, take a walk, like, or make your bed every morning.

Lauren McLaughlin: It's like, okay. Whatever. Yeah, it just like

Lillian: seems like the like, you know, the problems that we're dealing with are just you know They're [00:18:00] insignificant and, you know, they're inconvenient and people just want to get rid of them and will be prescribed just kind of any advice.

Lauren McLaughlin: I agree and we've been down many, you know, paths of working with therapists. You know, all children, you know, having their moments of needing some support. And, You know, talk therapy. You've heard me bash it. I don't need to fully bash it. I'm not saying I'm anti, you know traditional, you know, therapy where it's the sitting on the sofa.

But to me, there has to be some shift in that. And, you know, I'm very big on having to move your body and having to move in order to shift through any any crisis, you know, whether it is emotional or even if it's physical. I just think we need it all like we need to talk about it. Thank you. But Yeah,

Lillian: we do also need to know, Like, just how to deal with it. We need to know the tools and the skills to you know, once we do have those conversations, [00:19:00] okay, what now? How do we move forward? And, you know, exercise, you know, daily habits are, are the way to do it. I just think, yeah, it's, it's lacking. In every, in every aspect.

Lauren McLaughlin: Yeah, no, I agree.

And so I was so pleased to pull some articles that are from Y Pulse. You know, so grateful to discover the site because it's just filled with very helpful insight on what Millennials and Gen Zers and you know, well, mainly those are the two generations right now that are able to really speak and put their views out by hearing how they're trying to make a change.

And this one that is just like, what do you, what are Gen Z years doing for mental health? Like what practices and a lot of it was finding, you know, Exercise, but also finding the ability to meditate, you know, kind of welcoming, you know, [00:20:00] meditation and maybe those breathing exercises to help them. The next is like how Gen Z and millennials are redefining wellness. Now this one totally, like I completely resonated with your generation because I'm going, yes, this is why it, you know, conscious strong in the mission that I have been building here. With, with my mission, it was to redefine wellness.

And I love seeing that. Gen Z ers are really working to make that difference too, and making it not so linear, is that just as we were saying, it encompasses the whole, the whole of living.

Lillian: , we've just been so dissatisfied with things for a long time, and you know, cause I grew up and many of people Like you, who are just like, oh, well, you know, flip the switch, just do this, just be happy.

And we're just like, well, we can't. And so, yeah, I just think we're trying to find, you know, our own [00:21:00] way

Lauren McLaughlin: Where do you seek your, I'm gonna call it, desire, like knowledge? Like where, what's your source? Like do you, is it YouTube? Is it Instagram?

Hmm. I mean, where is your main source of information?

Lillian: Yeah. I mean, I go on YouTube a lot or just, you know, Googling stuff. Like if I have a question and I'll just look that up and see whatever comes up. And then also just talking to people. But yeah, I would say mostly YouTube, Google. and people.

That's

Lauren McLaughlin: kind of it. Dr. Google, I know. Yeah, I get it. So, but what I'm seeing here is redefining wellness is looking at it from this whole perspective which I found beautiful in terms of saying You don't have to just exercise and that I love because I'm trying to take exercise out of the vocabulary.

This is all movement. It is just, [00:22:00] it's a lifestyle. It is being able to move and navigate without it being, oh, I have to go to the gym for an hour in order to feel satisfied. Yeah. Or happy or to

Seek just happiness and what feels good. And, and we can look at the good and the bad of that. Of, you know, a quick fix and just wanting to feel good all the time. Yeah, it's a bit hedonistic. Exactly. In my opinion, but. Yeah, ,

Lillian: I don't think things were much better before by just, you know, well, suck it up, you know, pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

That is a horrible way to live in my opinion. But, you know, just kind of, Doing whatever makes you feel good in the moment yeah, it's just, it's a quick fix, and I don't think it really can, like, address the real issue at hand sometimes and I think with social media especially, like, you mentioned the word holistic, but I just don't agree with that, [00:23:00] I think it's way too superficial our approach to everything nowadays, including wellness I like that we are starting to change, but I just, think we're

Lauren McLaughlin: very lost. Well, I agree. I feel like we have seen the pendulum shift way over and we're seeing it quite loud and I think this is where we have this opportunity to start to have these conversations.

And so that we don't see it swing way back over to where, you know, it causes more disruption. Again, we can't avoid that. But we can catch it as it's starting to make that shift back towards more of the center of that swing and shift so that we can make a difference. The next article that I found extremely like, wow, was that why young people think wellness culture is toxic. And I just found this very fascinating. that 55 percent of 13 to [00:24:00] 39 year olds agree that current wellness culture is toxic and harmful. Is there any, like, do you have any, like, input on that?

Lillian: A lot of wellness well, it's just a commodity, isn't it? The solutions to a lot of our wellness issues. It's like, well, get this supplement, buy this app, or, you know, just things that aren't really helpful and are, but they're like trendy.

And again, they just, like, don't really address, like, the root of the issue. And so that's, like, my problem. And I think... There is also like this only like one idea of wellness that it has to like look this certain way When when it doesn't like wellness is completely up to you like it's a very individual thing Because we all have different struggles and different problems and the way we deal with them are ultimately going to be very different.

Lauren McLaughlin: You hit something earlier that I really didn't complete my thought around that. [00:25:00] And that's trauma. And, you know, as a human, we all experience trauma.

And I think, you know, My generation and older. It was a topic that was taboo. You don't talk about it. You know, we're all supposed to look perfect, be perfect, put your smile on, walk out the door. I know that's how I was raised is just, you know, be quiet, walk out, smile, be pretty and That doesn't work. We know that.

We're seeing the effects of that. So I do see now, it's the topic of trauma is definitely more forward. Techniques that can be used for trauma healing is like writing and expressive writing and not just, not just journaling for the sake of talking about how you spent your day or what food you ate. But it's truly being real and going into the root and the deep part of the emotions.

And I do feel that that is key in the health space, in the movement space. Because if you're going [00:26:00] into the gym, just to be on the surface here, if you're going into the gym and you've had a horrible day and you're already jacked up, I'm gonna start bringing a little bit of the neuroscience in, in terms of cortisol uptake where your cortisol is skyrocketing, you're in fight or flight your sympathetic nervous system is in charge, and then you go to the gym and you're just trying to run out the tension, you're actually doing more harm.

So I think that, that language and that research is now very forward, but let's bring it into your generation that is in essence saying the same, if I'm reading this right, in terms of this wellness culture is toxic. It's not healthy. 68 percent of 13 to 39 year olds agree that current wellness culture puts too much emphasis on perfection.

And I think it's that perfection, now we're seeing a little shift there in terms of the stress [00:27:00] around that.

Lillian: It's definitely so much on appearances instead of like actual introspection, which is like what we need.

Cause you're never going to heal from your trauma just by like doing CrossFit or something like that, you know. Yeah. Yeah, there needs to be real introspection and it can't just be like, Oh, well if I look a certain way, like if I have the right body, if I, you know, take the right brand of supplements or whatever, you know.

You're not really going

Lauren McLaughlin: to get anywhere with that. You're not going to, and trust me, you know, ladies and gents, we'll talk to everybody out there is that, yeah, you hit a certain age and I'm sorry, life is just going to shift. I'm there, you know, you hit, you know, menopause and life is, I'm sorry, you're not going to have the Barbie figure.

It's just unrealistic. It's unrealistic. And then when you hit that age where things shift and that's just, you know, it's beautiful to age gracefully, but we're not setting up our, your generation for that success [00:28:00] because we have this emphasis on being picture perfect.

Yeah. And then a whopping 89 percent of, again, 13 to 39 year olds, they want the definition of wellness to change. And I think that that's powerful. I'm just hearing confusion. I'm hearing confusion. I don't think, you know, your generation, and I know many, you know, in your generation just because I have a lot of children and I'm exposed to being in your, in your world is that I don't think you really want that perfection piece.

You don't want to really be that girl, but you feel like you have to be that girl, or you... Have to perform this particular way to number one, please the older generation because they're sitting there with their finger in your face saying, no, you have to do it like this. And or you're watching peers or the gossiping or all of the social media make you feel that I have to subscribe to [00:29:00] this.

If I want to step out into the world, but, the, the main crux of this article, I was very pleased to see that it is all about Really being in the moment and that is key.

It's not looking for that really quick fix and not doing things that are going to potentially harm you just for the feel good sake. And we know what that means. It's substances misuse of substances. That is not a good thing in terms of finding that feel good state. But what I am seeing in all generations, to be honest, is The desire to be outside, you know, realizing like hiking.

You, miss, did part of the A, the AT, the Appalachian Trail, which is very difficult and you shocked me. at how far you went on the A. T. alone, solo, all by yourself. And I was petrified as your [00:30:00] parent. Like, totally petrified. And it was the woman who was at the entrance that we had to go through that orientation before anybody can go hit the A.

T. That said, Oh, don't worry, mom. She is about to meet her entire new family. Well, that was hard for me to hear too, but it gave me the sense of comfort and then just seeing, again, this gets me all teary eyed, I'm so emotional, but just seeing every age group walking that trail. And I, you know, had the privilege of walking.

the first day with you in, but then I had to walk back and I was literally crawling back. I was in so much pain going, Oh my gosh, she's about to go out and, and tackle this. But I am seeing that shift where there's definitely more than what I was used to growing up. this desire to be outdoors. And in not fully escaping, [00:31:00] but maybe escaping, I think so.

You think so exactly. But you know, we know that nature is It's own medicine and has so many healing benefits. I've had the privilege of experiencing just as of late, I hiked the Grand Canyon, which we've talked about now doing together. And that I find so beautiful.

Lillian: Going back to escapism, I mean, that's kind of. The reason why I went out there in the first place is just, you know, I didn't know what I want to do with my life, and I just figured, well, I can just spend some time in the woods, and that's what I did. Cause yeah, I didn't want to deal with a job, or, you know, all like the stresses of daily life.

And... Yeah, when I got out there, it was, of course, very, very difficult, like, especially physically, but mentally as well cause I am a homebody, that is, that was [00:32:00] so out of my comfort zone, I never had done anything like that before but, you know, it was, like, overwhelming how kind people were out there, and, yeah, it was all age groups, mostly older, like, most of the people I think were, like, retired so like fifties and sixties but yeah, everyone was just so friendly and kind because I think they were looking for the same exact thing.

They wanted that kind of extreme form of escapism, just getting away from, you know. Mundane responsibilities and just to connect with nature, connect with themselves and, you know, like minded

Lauren McLaughlin: people. Yeah. And were you surprised at the number of people that would stop to have a conversation with you?

It overwhelmed me. It was Yeah, and it's a beautiful because I just truly was shocked and everyone was more, you know, like applauding you I mean it was like every turn when we ran into people [00:33:00] Everyone would clap and it was just like wow This is I didn't want to go back to be honest with you, but like I want to do this

Lillian: I don't think I told you about this but like the first night that I was there I had met someone and she She kind of looked about my age, but she was like her early thirties.

And she was telling me about, you know, how she went to prison, how she went to like rehab, just like her whole life story and her struggles. And like, I just met her and I don't know her name. Like she never told me. I think there's an understanding that we're all some, like, you know, we're kind of all in the same place and we're looking for like minded people.

We're all there for the same reason. And so, yeah, just stopping and having those kind of conversations were just so easy and effortless.

Lauren McLaughlin: Yeah, yeah. And, yeah, and kind of bizarre, but yeah. Yeah. So you're hitting something in terms of, you know, getting out of the social platform space and moving out into nature, how it can open up these [00:34:00] conversations like she shared with you something so vulnerable, but didn't even know you.

Yeah. But that's a necessary in order for us to see the shift in the right. Direction as we were saying the pendulum coming back. Perhaps it's because

Lillian: like, you know institutions like school and like, you know a workplace like there is a hierarchy but I guess when you're just like Out in nature or, you know, yeah, you know, just doing a hobby that, yeah, it's, it's really easy to connect with people without, you know, fear of judgment or anything like that.

Lauren McLaughlin: Were you ever afraid? Like, did you have moments where you just... No, and I don't know if that's

Lillian: because, like, I was, like, dumb or naive or something, but I always felt safe you know. I did have my pepper spray with me and never had to use it thankfully, but yeah, you know, I think it was just like as long as you stay Vigilant, then everything's fine.

And again, everyone's so kind and helpful. [00:35:00] Yeah. That, yeah, like there's people called like trail angels who, they don't hike the trail, but they'll just like kind of show up and they'll hand out like food or supplies to through hikers. You know, just to help them out. So that's, you know, just the kind of people who you find.

Lauren McLaughlin: I'm with you, you know, this year, just very recently, you know, I did hike the Grand Canyon it's, it was probably the most life changing experience hands down. I can't talk too much about it yet because I don't think 20 miles, 20. I don't think, yeah, it's like 22 miles and I did it in one day.

For me, I don't recommend doing that and stop and enjoy the scenery and not feel like you have to like prove that you can do in a day, but I am so grateful for that day and that experience, especially with the group I had. But it's exactly what. You're saying in terms of what you experienced, the people that you meet and everyone is just so kind [00:36:00] and everyone is so willing to help.

You know, I, it was a pain journey for me, physical and I'm going to say now even emotional. I had no idea it came out of nowhere, but physically. I literally was crawling for half of that experience and the people that would come and want to help, the people that would want to come and say, give me your pack.

I'm going to help you get that. Let me fix your water, Lauren. And I wasn't the only one, so it wasn't as if I was when I was with a group, but you know, just, you know, you know, we, this conversation around our hiking experiences, we weren't really planning on it. It just kind of came organically now. But I love the fact that we are bringing it up because being out in nature is one of the safest places for you to process trauma or, you know, dealing with, you know, some feelings that are not comfortable.

But being able to be outside and not confined to, you [00:37:00] know, the four walls, sitting on a sofa, trying to talk you through, it just doesn't work. So it's going back to the notion of that we have to keep moving our body. I was going to say system, but we do have to keep moving our body, which is a system in order for it to process some of these really heavy emotions.

And nothing, you know, better than to be outdoors where you feel safe. This is kind of going backwards now because of this topic of that girl and being a gen Xer, I was like, well, who is that girl? Is it? it, you know, Mrs. It, and you're going, Mom, it's not a real person. It is that girl that everybody aspires to be, and she's perfect.

It's an ideal. It's an ideal. She wakes up at five. She works out. She puts her makeup on. She goes out, and she looks perfect. She does the workout. Being in the Pilates space and a, you know, master instructor for 20 years, I, this is like hit a [00:38:00] strong chord with me in terms of that girl is not allowed in the studio.

It's like, no, don't come do an Instagram shot just to say you've done Pilates or any type of movement because it is giving that false, you know, interpretation of what even wellness should be. In wrapping up here we've covered a lot of topics that have been a little all over the world.

Yeah. So in how to summarize what we are bringing forward here today is, well, number one, get outdoors, right? Yeah. Touch grass. Touch grass. Yeah. Go lay down. You used to walk barefoot. You were into that for a long time. Oh, yeah. Earthing or whatever it's called. Yeah. Earthing, deep breathing. So what would you say to any of your generation, your, your peers that are out there listening, that may be tuning in you know, you've been through some really difficult times that [00:39:00] I as a parent had, it was very hard to watch, you know, my child suffer and you've been, you were suffering.

You had your dance experience that, You know, created a lot of suffering. I look at

Lillian: this and like, just like the pictures of like, thin, pretty women.

And then it's just like that reminds me of ballet and the kind of pressures that had. So it just feels like relevant to bring up. Yeah.

Lauren McLaughlin: Well, you brought it up first. I did bring it up. And so we are talking, you know, your years of being a ballerina and a beautiful ballerina at that. And you have shared many times that those years were very toxic.

Especially the latter years in terms of what you felt that your body image should look like.

Lillian: I started when I was like four and I loved it. And I would say like until four until like 11 [00:40:00] or 12, like, yeah, it was like my favorite thing.

I wanted to, I wanted it to be a career, but then it kind of became this like obsession and you know, I did it seven days a week and. You know, it's like, it started out as something that I loved and truly an outlet for me to express myself, but also just to get my body moving which is as it should be.

But then, you know, as you get older, that kind of ballerina mold gets stricter and stricter and, you know, it just, yeah, it makes you look at yourself, like, you just kind of, zone in on like every little flaw that you have because, you know, you're just standing in front of a mirror. You know, Oh, do I look good this way?

Oh, am I, am I fat or something? There's very, very high standards in ballet because you have to be like an athlete, but also kind of a model in a way. You need the strength, but you also need a certain look. [00:41:00] And then there's also just like so much competition between you and the other girls.

But it's never really talked, it's like, you know, really like girl caddy kind of tension. That's super passive aggressive.

Lauren McLaughlin: Yeah.

Lillian: When you're just like constantly in that environment, the way you internalize it is just so deep and you know, as like a rational as it sounds. It's like, oh, if I couldn't get my leg high enough, or if I couldn't do more turns as like the other girls could, like, I would, I would feel inadequate, like, as a dancer, but also, like, as a person just because, yeah, I just internalized that so, so deeply.

And yeah, you know, then there was a lot of like the eating stuff and teachers like for like Thanksgiving or Christmas being like, oh have fun, but don't eat too much, you know, and we would have like an inside joke that, you know, our favorite food was lemon water and gum [00:42:00] and like, you know, there's kind of some truth to like every joke because that's what we would eat before our You know, performances, our recitals you know, there's just a lot of pressure, but like going back to this and like that girl, I think it's the same, it's like Pilates is great, you know, it gets your body moving, and I'm sure it like has a lot of benefits, but when you have this like ideal, this mold that you have to like fit into, that's just when it becomes super toxic, and you know, you kind of lose yourself, you know.

Yeah. And, you know, I wasn't, like, you know, looking at myself for, for me and the dancer that I wanted to be, but this, the dancer that I had to be and yeah, that just really effed me up for a while, and, you know, I just, I'm still, like, an ultra perfectionist, and, you know, that definitely came from dance, and just, Having to be a perfectionist.

Lauren McLaughlin: Yeah, yeah, and there was the dancer, her name [00:43:00] again, was the one that really was reshaping, you know, You're talking about Misty Copeland? Yes, Misty Copeland was amazing and just how she was, Somewhat rebranding the ballerina body because she had like muscles

Lillian: like she actually had muscles and like strength Yeah, what you need, you know exactly 105 pounds.

No and do that

Lauren McLaughlin: forever. Yeah. Yeah, it's not sustainable Yeah, that's why

Lillian: yeah most Ballerinas retire like by the time they're 30 and that's like pushing it. Yeah.

Lauren McLaughlin: Yeah, just a very unhealthy culture But it is centered once again around this idea of being perfect and I witnessed it I I went and chaperoned many dance weekends, you know With you and got in and saw, you know, just the girls are catty girls are you know, we are vicious And how we judge other Girls out of again going back to fear of just being wanting to be able to do and perform Or outperform [00:44:00] or not be behind and that does create again, very toxic environment, so We have talked about a lot today and I'm grateful for you showing up and being vulnerable and sharing your story from your perspective of living in the Gen Z world that is now, you know, navigating this world and how to settle into a comfortable space so that you can find comfort.

Life is never perfect. Fully perfect. That's just not realistic. And I think that's been our topic and theme today is that down to wellness, down to having conversations, having, you know, more open minded conversations and wanting to be heard.

I think that we all are experiencing that in every generation, so all of you parents out there, trust me, I've been through, I think, almost every kind of situation, having [00:45:00] been a mother of five, and You're my youngest. We've been through a lot.

I have navigated boys and girls and I've seen and heard things that I never want to see and hear again. So parents, I feel you. I do. But I was so grateful that Lillian agreed to come and have this conversation to be the first of, I hope, many that can help all of us start to come to a more effective.

Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt. But,

Lillian: just like how, you know, I've criticized the older generations for you know, just not giving the best advice, or just thinking that they know the best. I think that, you know, Millennials, Gen Zers, and I, and, you know, the younger generations should also try and avoid thinking that we know everything because we don't.

You know, this conversation is just still ongoing.

Lauren McLaughlin: Like so many things [00:46:00] here, especially in, you know, in the States, in our Western way, is that we are so polarized in many areas, and I do still feel like there is this... Or at least that's the

Lillian: way it's set up to be. I don't think it's as...

Black and white as a lot of people think it is or it's like yeah that polarized I think that we can really relate to each other a lot and we can have good conversations Maybe it's just about like finding that language You know, yeah, we're just finding that common ground. Yeah that's

Lauren McLaughlin: necessary. Deep breathe, have hard conversations, do hard things, and then we can find some solution, but coming at it.

from fear is going to only create more tension and discord. What would be your lasting, like, comments,

Lillian: I think we all need to listen. I don't think it's just the older people that need to listen to the young. It's, you know, we just all need to listen to each other because we're all [00:47:00] really confused as hell at the moment. And we're just figuring it out, you know. It's like, cause, you know, at 22, I'm always like, Well, I don't know what I'm doing with my life.

I'm just figuring stuff out. And, you know, I'm hearing people in their 50s and 60s say the exact same thing and being like, Hey, it's fine, cause I don't have it figured out either. So, you know, I think we all just need to just take a step back, take a breath, and just, you know. Yeah, listen a bit more and be kinder to ourselves and others.

That's

Lauren McLaughlin: it. I love it So all of the listeners out there, I really hope that you will participate in the chat Let us know what's going on in your home. What's going on in your work life? What's going on in your relationships with? with your you know Children or grandchildren and, and share because it does start with that awareness.

It starts by having communication. It starts by [00:48:00] being vulnerable and, and bringing it forward. Because just like the friend that Lillian met on the Appalachian Trail. She shared something quite vulnerable and it hit you and it's been a lot. It's a lasting memory for you, right? Because it's made it a

Lillian: different.

She was just so nonchalant about it. And again, she looked so young. Like I thought she was like in her early 20s. Yeah. So when she said that she was like a 30 year old former like heroin addict I was like damn you look good.

Lauren McLaughlin: Yeah, you look good.

Lillian: It just, you know, took me back, but

Lauren McLaughlin: yeah, yeah. Yeah. So yeah, do share.

We would love to hear from you and we just thank all of the listeners for being here. And I thank you, Lillian, for being here. You know, I love you. I adore you and I'm just so impressed and proud of the woman that you've turned into. And thank you, honey. Gee, thanks. Love you. Love you.[00:49:00]