Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Pathways To Spirit is hosted by Dr. Troy Melendez and Dr. Nate Velez of Journey to Recovery, offering an inside look at the people, practices, and purpose behind a culturally grounded approach to healing from addiction. Through conversations with the Journey to Recovery team, the podcast explores the program’s history, its new facility, and the clinical and cultural principles that guide their work. Pathways To Spirit provides a welcoming space to learn how Community, culture, and connection support the recovery journey, and how this program is shaping a path toward wellness and a deeper sense of spirit.
Welcome to Pathways to Spirit. Our journey today seeks to honor the sacred land, revered teachings, and ancestral wisdom that guide us through the path of mental health wellness and holistic recovery. Together we'll explore the stories of strength, healing and hope, embracing the clinical techniques and cultural foundations that remind us we are never alone on this sacred journey toward wellness and a strong personal connection to Spirit. Welcome back to Pathways to Spirit. I'm your host, Doctor.
Troy:Troy Melendez. And with me in the studio today is Cameron Francisco. Cameron is currently a peer support specialist with our outpatient programs. He started with PHP and we recently added an IOP program to that. He's kind of the primary support staff in that program.
Troy:He's come here today to tell us a little bit about his recovery journey and his path to Spirit. So welcome Cameron, how are doing today?
Cameron:I'm doing great.
Cameron:Thank you for the invite and I'm more than willing to share here in spirit too.
Troy:Nice, nice. Well, I've known you for a couple of years here. We met at the beginning of your journey with us this most recent time.
Troy:I know there's more to your journey and I'll let you tell that story. It was for me observing, it's been very interesting. You're very passionate and that's been consistent throughout the time that I've known you. That passion was a little more from your own perspective at the beginning. Were passionate about challenging things, but there was always something there that I knew was going to click for you.
Troy:That passion was gonna become one of your strongest strengths in that regard. So, I'm excited to hear a little bit more about the journey, mostly, you know, we met you and stuff. So, yeah, why don't you tell me a little bit about kind of where this all started for you in terms of the beginning of your journey? For the change in my life or? Yeah, you've been kind of we were talking a little bit before we started recording here and he talked about how this was the time that it really clicked for you.
Troy:And there was a time you were in a helping role previous to coming to treatment with us before, correct?
Cameron:Yes. Well, a big part of the change came because I wasn't gonna get sent back to prison. I was gonna get sent back. I was I came out wanting to do something different, but I didn't there was nothing different about my walk. I just got a little smarter and a little more manipulative in how I was doing things.
Cameron:And then I ended up I got my kids back, and I was living with somebody at the time. And she ended up saying telling my PO. I told my PO I wasn't there, and she ended up just popping up anyway. And then she breathalyzed me. That was the change.
Cameron:She said, I'm gonna give you a month to do something because you have been doing good, I see that you're changing, you're getting your family back. And look, do you want to lose all this? And at the time I was like, I mean, this is what I've been doing. So it was not really anything that I noticed that I was going to lose. Because I was like, well, I'll just get back out and get it again.
Cameron:So then I ended up for, like, almost a whole month just running around, trying to, you know But then things happened. A lot of things. One of them was I got injured, you know. And then the other thing is a friend of mine said that, well, you don't belong out here. What are you doing?
Cameron:You know, we see that, you know, you have kids. I don't have kids. You know, you're doing good. You have a place to go to. What are you doing out here?
Cameron:Know? And so I went, alright. And then I went to the hospital, and then I got a little bit better. And then I started calling places, and I got picked up, you know, or I went to a facility in Tucson. Okay.
Cameron:And then, yeah, that was a big change for me, you know, like, sitting there angry, you know, and not wanting to be in that place. Sure. But I knew that if I gave up or stopped or went backwards or made the same choices that I've been making, I wouldn't have been been right here where I'm at right now. So I just slowly just sat there mad at the world for a long time and got in arguments. And I tried to fight staff where I was at.
Cameron:But same thing, you know? I remember one time I was a big guy, you know, and I got in an argument with him. They said and he was a big guy, and they just told me, like, the next day. But I went in right as this class started, and I apologized. I say, I apologize for my actions.
Cameron:I accept the consequences, and I take accountability. Right then and there, they were discussing what they were gonna do with me, And one of the guys, he told me, said, you know, that right there shows the growth that you have been doing and the growth that we all see. So we were just deciding on what we were gonna do with you, you know, if we were gonna kick you out or if we were gonna have you. But you just walked in right on time, and so we say, you know, they told me, no threatening staff or And I told them, I said, Well, I didn't threaten nobody. You know, still trying to deny And but taking then so there it was.
Cameron:And then so that right there, like, that just seems to be my what happens to me. You know? Like, people see that I have whatever they see, you know? They see in me that I've never see that I didn't see for a long time until recently, you know? Because another thing is that I look myself in the mirror and I can, you know, I start to see what other people are seeing, you know, and then walking it, you know.
Cameron:But that was a big change, you know, just going a different taking a different road to, you know, where because I already know the other roads, where they lead, what they do.
Troy:It was just repeating the same cycle. Sounds like you'd get some success and they'd be on your terms though. And that's it, is where we surrender but we surrender our way. Take accountability we take accountability our way. And it's kind of that same addicted and sick person trying to do something different rather than that full surrender that if we're successful at this, we eventually get to and it's like, now I'm letting go of the old me.
Troy:I got nothing to hold onto.
Cameron:Yeah. Just like you said, letting go Because I like the old me, you know? It got me through so many things. It got me I knew what to do. But also that too is like I lost a lot, you know, and then having to regain everything that I lost, you know?
Cameron:So that's why I was ready to go back in. And I like, well, I'll get my kids back again. I can do this again. I'm like, but, you know, things, what do they say, you know, you have plans and creator laughs, you know. And that's what happened because I had a plan to, like, know, I wasn't gonna go back and do my time and come back out.
Cameron:And things were put in front of me that kinda helped me make that decision to go to that treatment center. And it's funny, because that place was this is Journey to Recovery, and then that was a it was another treatment that, you know, it's just the same thing. You know? It really it was a journey, you know?
Troy:Yeah. I mean, you've done a lot for yourself in the last couple of years since coming to Journey Recovery as a client. It's interesting to hear that you've had that same experience with others observing you both in the streets and in the recovery centers is that people could see that you were built for something more than this. I remember that in you and I remember that you were kind of fighting to hold onto the old stuff. In my own recovery journey, I get that because we value that person that we were before because it would get us through things.
Troy:It knew how to take care of stuff, but it was only from this perspective where we weren't really happy and we weren't fully surrendered. We were still trying to control things around us. That story, you're saying, you were just in a familiar loop of, Oh, can I go do some time, I'll get out, I'll get my kids back, I'll get things going, maybe have a little fun, it might get out of hand, I might end up doing something, you know, you're in that kind of repeating cycle and it's familiar? It's not really comfortable, but it's familiar and we're able to deal with it, it's predictable and I talk about this a lot when I'm working in groups is that there's areas of our brain that work together to keep us in a routine. Our brain, it's comfortable with predictability, it's comfortable with things that are familiar, and those things don't have to be good for us.
Troy:They just have to be familiar, because that's comforting to the brain. It's like, Oh, can predict this, I know what's going to happen. Even if it's bad things, I know what's going to happen. It's not going to be a big surprise. So what do you think for you was the catalyst for finally making that change?
Troy:Because like you said, you've been doing it for a while, and nothing really stuck the way that it's stuck for you right now. What inspired that change?
Cameron:Well, thinking back, there was a few things, and one is that I know I got tired of, like I said, that repeating cycle. The second is my children. Well, you know, it's not in any order, but the second is my children were getting I have older children, and my younger ones, was putting them through the same things. Mhmm. So I had an opportunity to I have the opportunity to change all that.
Cameron:And what I did was I made a choice, you know, like, well, you know, I start growing up. Mhmm. And then the other thing is that, you know, like, death, you know, in my life is a big part of it, you know, and a lot of tragedy around those deaths. And so just realizing that I need to start taking some kind of accountability for my actions, stop blaming people. Yeah, the one thing was that loss, you know?
Cameron:Like, first I can regain some of them, you know, and the other ones I can't regain. Somebody told me this, and they were like, you know, like, do why do you do the things you do, and for what? For what? You know, I just keep hearing that voice in my head. And then the other thing is that, you know, some things you do, you can't take back, you know?
Cameron:Mhmm. Some things you do, you can't No matter how much you apologize, how many times you say you're sorry, you can't take it back, you know? Done it, you did it, you know? And I didn't understand that at the time. Uh-huh.
Cameron:But I you know, it's a little more clearer now or a little less foggy, that meaning to me, you know?
Troy:Mhmm.
Cameron:So, yeah, it was loss, you know, loss in being able to gain things back. But really, it's all like I didn't need any of that. What I was losing was my family.
Troy:Right. You saw the value in that as opposed to what you were getting, not attending to the family. So with regards to the family, how do you feel your relationship with your kids evolved? Was that a linear process where it's like, Hey, dad's getting better and so our relationship's getting better? Or was that more of a challenge for you in that, Okay, they're opening up, but they're not sure yet.
Troy:We have the ups and downs, early recovery, that first year for us is tough, especially the first six months. We can feel on top of the world one day and just underneath it the next. And so being new in recovery again and reconnecting with your kids, what was the evolution of that relationship like?
Cameron:Well, for me, it's like, before I even knew about recovery, you know, coming in and out of prison, that's what I knew. And jails, too, or institutions, you know? And so when I'll come out, I'll make promises, break promises to my daughter, my older boys. So when I'll come up, I'll, you know, like, I'll smother my daughter, you know? And she was smaller at the time, but she started, you know, the years I was away, she got older and older, and she didn't want that no more.
Cameron:And so she told me, you know, like, Dad, every time you say something, you don't do it. You break your promises, and you don't follow through. And so I'm just keeping my distance from you. And that, you know, at the time, it made me mad, but I was, you know, And hurt at the same then she had my granddaughter. But every time I would go over there, my granddaughter would always be in the bath, and it didn't snap at first until after.
Cameron:Oh, okay. And I was like, oh, because I was drinking. So every time I would go over, my granddaughter would be in the bathtub, you know.
Cameron:And then until and then even now, like, so I may, you know so I just stay present. And that's one of the things I learned at JTR, because they came for Christmas. And one of the counselors there, her name's Pam, and she just told me, Just be present. Be present in the room. You know?
Cameron:So they gave me games, and so that's what I started learning. Like, yeah, there's things going on that I would like to talk about, but just being able to be present like, sitting at a table having dinner, you know, or lunch or breakfast or whatever, things that I've never, you know, that I I didn't grow up with, you know. And so that's how I took it, and we just I stayed present. We drew pictures, and we played jinga. Mhmm.
Cameron:Yeah. My daughter, she was real she didn't wanna play at first, but she was the most competitive one, and she was trying to win at the end. So, you know, that that's the change that that's happened is that, you know, things go on, you know, I just try to go, how are you doing? You know, like, you know, like, let's sit down, let's talk, you know, and that's what I do, you know. Mhmm.
Cameron:And I just continue to do that, and it leads to other things too, you know, and how I am as a person, just try to get to be genuine, you know. Because I'm still learning too, you know? Yeah. Because I still have my days, you know?
Troy:Yeah. Oh yeah, I get that. The only difference is you got a toolkit now. You got skills, you got techniques that you can use and it's hard because we have those tools as helpers, but not all helpers use them on themselves. We prescribe it for everybody else, but when it comes to us, somehow we're different and now I can just make it through this.
Troy:That's where a lot of helpers in this environment really lose their grip again, you know, and that self care, it's so important. So this is not, you know, I think a lot of people see this, you know, opportunities become a peer support and opportunities to work as a BHT and utilize that bad experience we had in our lives to our advantage. But if you're not really strong in your recovery, it's going to have the opposite effect on you. It's going to become overwhelming. You're going to get judgmental.
Troy:You're going take other people's inventory. There's a difference between confronting somebody and helping them to come to terms with their own issues and taking their inventory. If you're not healthy in your own recovery, you won't see that difference. And we can engage in behavior that's not helpful. How do you avoid doing that for yourself?
Troy:What are your strategies for self care and kinda keeping yourself healthy through this?
Cameron:I stay busy too. I stay busy. I go to work, productive member of society. I start I go to meetings, you know, I have multiple meetings that I go to on Zoom, too. Have a home group.
Cameron:Okay. I work out on a daily. You know, I do my best to communicate with the people that I do have in my circle. But that's ever expanding and getting short and expanding and then getting to knowledge, you know, learning about not only myself, but my environment, the people around me. Because that's one of the things that like, I wanted to know why I did the things I did, you know?
Cameron:Mhmm. But for my self care is that, you know, just I think I'm still like, I'm learning how to do that, you know, because everything I'm doing is kinda on a routine. I'm on a routine. I so when I'm doing notice that I can do that. But I I, like that, don't take time for myself.
Cameron:Like, meaning, like, well, what do I do? You know, I don't really like watching movies. I don't really like going out. So I start to do that, you know. So that's just my self care and then working out.
Cameron:But I work out, though, like a lot, you know?
Troy:Yeah, that was a big part of your recovery, remember, at the beginning, that that was that physical release, which is great, you know? If people can get to that place, it's a good cathartic release, you know, it's good to make ourselves sweat, it's good to kind of push ourselves in a physical way, because some of what gets left behind when we recover is that struggle. We kind of miss the struggle. There's something to working through something difficult and feeling overwhelmed and at the end of your rope, but yet somehow we make it through. And so I think it's real important that folks find a way to replace that with a healthy routine.
Troy:One of the things that I've noticed too about you, even at this point in your recovery, I'd always, in PHP, I'd talk about the solar cycle and the lunar cycle and everybody would look at me like, What's Doctor. Melendez talking about the moon again? And he was like, He's a werewolf or something. No, from the perspective of we developed a routine, we were caught in a cycle that was very unnatural for us, but we maintained that, and that's what kept us locked in that addiction, in that unhealthy cycle. And so looking to the natural cycles that are around us, there's just natural prompts that we can adhere to that can help to structure our recovery in a healthy way.
Troy:And, know, it's still to this day, I a daily text. I get a text of the sunrise pretty much every morning from you. That's an important piece, you know? It's hard. It's hard to start a new schedule.
Troy:It's hard to force yourself to do something that you hadn't done before. But, I'd be curious from your perspective, when did that kind of take hold for you? When did you see that, hey, this is a good way for me to kinda let go of the old and open up for something new?
Cameron:Well, the start of it was because my youngest daughter, when I was at JTR, you know, like, I would text her, you know, and I try to call, she won't answer. You know? So I just started texting her, and then eventually she started texting back. You know? And I'm like, oh, okay.
Cameron:So from there, you know, because I'm a early riser, I get up early, and then I stay here with my grandma. And so my cousin, you know, she's young too. She's like, we will be up in the morning, and I just started taking pictures of the sun, you know. And then after that, it led to, you know, that was part of my routine, you know, trying to, you know, just doing my best to catch it. And then I think I haven't missed one since.
Cameron:It's been a while, you know, because I'm not on social media, you know, and I think that replaced that, you know, instead of having to I mean, part of it too, you know, because I'm not saying that stuff for everything, but for me, I know I don't wanna be on that, you know? I don't wanna and learning to kinda keep my distance and stay focused, you know? So part of that is like, well, what am I really focusing on, you know, for me? You know, what am I focusing on? And so, well, oh, the sunrise, you know, and the sun sets, you know.
Cameron:And then, too, readings that I like, you know, and what I do, and then just a little saying, too, you know? Mhmm. Because along that way, I started meeting people and started getting numbers, too. And then from just that, too, I have, like, at least four different kinda group texts that, you know, that resulted from that, you know? Okay.
Cameron:One of the groups is called the Sunrise Group, you know?
Troy:Nice.
Cameron:Yeah. So, like, and I don't All I do, which somebody told me, is I just deliver the message. What they want to do with it is on them. Yeah. Because since I've been doing that, it's only been a couple of times where somebody said, Oh, can you not do that no more?
Cameron:Or Mhmm. And I'll be like, okay. You know? But, you know, that's why why ask for my number or why, you know, it's like, hey. You know?
Cameron:Like, can I get your number or, hey, can I get your number, you know? Well, why do that? We're never gonna talk to each other, you know? Right. You know, so that was part of my routine cycle.
Cameron:And it helps me, too, just feeling it, you know. Like, before I used to get blind. You know, I didn't really I guess I've learned by watching it, you know? Sure. Yeah.
Troy:Yeah, see it as just an opportunity to kind of recommit every day. You know, that sun rises up, we're gifted with a new day, you know, the sun is bringing life to us and know, and out here in the desert the sun gets hot and challenges us, but every night or every day it's gonna go down at night, and then every morning it's gonna come up again, And it's just recommitting my energy to growth at this point. At some point, we're recovered from the addiction, but we see that the growth doesn't stop there. And we start to develop other areas of ourself. You kind of talked about that a little earlier when you said there were things that other people saw in me that I couldn't see.
Troy:And now you're able to see some of those things. Where you see this going? You've been very successful in your personal recovery, you're an instrumental figure in a lot of other people's recovery at this point in time. Where's the future taking you in terms of your professional development?
Cameron:I said this a few times, you know, to mention this, that I'm on the autumn. I came you know, from, you know, I would say the motherland, but it's you know, to me, it's the motherland, And you being Thawna O'odham is that I came here to Salt River, which opened their arms to me, you know, and welcomed me and gave me all this energy, this this this knowledge, this all these things. Like, it's it's so much that I can't even, you know like, I'm just enjoying this, you know? And then, too, you know, now working there, know, Journey to Recovery. And so one of the things is when I go home, because I started to go home, and I want to take what I'm learning eventually, you know, when it's ready.
Cameron:I don't know when that's gonna be back to my home, you know? Oh, nice. Because one of the things that happened while I was going there, you know, I was doing a meeting, and I went somewhere. I went to an anniversary for my cousin.
Troy:Okay.
Cameron:And I ran into somebody over there, and they're like, Hey, you're such and such. And I'm like, Okay. And I was like, Hey, is this you? And they showed me a picture, and I'm like, Oh, yeah, that's me. She saw, Well, what do you do?
Cameron:And I said, I just explained what I did. They're like, We need that here. You know? Like, your way over there, you know, and, you know, they were like, we need these things there. And I felt that, you know?
Cameron:I'm like, yeah, we do. And then it just kinda like I get that from time to time when I go down there, you know, and, like, people that know me. But I know that I gotta take my time. I'm not in no rush. Not because that tends to happen with me, too.
Cameron:I get really and things happen to slow me down. I realize on myself, too, now. Because one of the other things I started doing was from learning from being there at JTR is to meditate, you know? I don't do it as much as I used to, but that helps me slow down those breathing techniques. That's one of my where I see this going is taking back what I'm gaining here, you know, so I can because I have family, you know, nieces and nephews that are going through it, you know, and they see me, you know?
Cameron:I'm able to not only just share my myself with them, but now I have some backing, so to speak.
Cameron:You know? Like, I have, well, this is kinda why, or this is, you know, hey, this maybe you might not wanna do that, and the things that were told to me. Mhmm. And I get to be an uncle, a brother. I get to be a friend that is trying to I don't want anything, you know?
Troy:Mhmm.
Cameron:Yeah. So but even that in itself is gonna take time, because I still what I'm doing now is somebody told me this, because I say, well, I'm still working on myself. And he was like, I don't like that, because he's not in recovery. He's not in recovery.
Cameron:But I agree, too. It's like, we're always working on ourselves. But he just said, just every day we're just trying to do the best we can with what we're given. Because every day we're giving something we're giving the gift of life. So what are we gonna do with the thing you had mentioned?
Cameron:You know, like, when we get up, when I don't have that great mystery, I don't have control of the sun. When it sits, it's gonna sit. I don't have control of when it rises, it's gonna rise. What I can do is do what I can for myself and just go with everything around affects me. Everything's gonna help me grow.
Cameron:The seasons, fall, you know, even the moon, like, is gonna it pulls me, like you say, you know, turn into a werewolf, you know? Like, is true, you know, in a way, you know?
Troy:Because What affects us?
Cameron:Yeah. But now I am understanding a little bit more, like, why, you know? And there's not, like I guess being able to share that with somebody and, like, you know what? Yeah. That's how it does to me too.
Cameron:You know? Oh, yeah. You don't know what the hell you're talking about, you know? I get both ends of that, you know? But it's it's okay, you know, because one thing I know is that everybody does things differently, and that's okay.
Troy:Mhmm.
Cameron:You know? Being in prison, like, it helped me recognize that everybody's different, and it started with the religion. You know? Like, they would tell me, you know, like, hey, we can't go over here.
Cameron:Don't talk to them. I'd be like in my head, I'd be like, well, why? Mhmm. And so I would go do it and, you know, just being curious, you know, and then knowing, like, whatever reason why it was put in place is because it's we don't understand them, you know? Right.
Cameron:We don't understand why people do what they do. So right away, like, you don't understand me, why I'm doing what I'm doing, so automatically I get stereotyped, you know? Mhmm. Even though if I don't agree with it, like, okay, well, I accept you for who you are at that time, you know, because we're all gonna change. Sure.
Troy:We're all capable of it. Yeah. We've gotta create the room for it.
Troy:So as a native man in recovery, and as somebody that's experienced recovery stateside and in the native communities, what was different for you at JTR? What was that piece of it that really kind of spoke to you? Because I don't know if you were were you very connected to traditional practices before you came? Because that was something you kind
Cameron:of leaned into when you were with us. JTR is a spiritual place, you know? Like, even though it's smooth, but this anywhere that people come to better themselves and that energy comes and goes good and bad, you know? It's not and I felt it while I was there. So that part of me, yeah, I can say Talking Circle and Wobrady teachings and learning how to smudge and learn some songs from the legend Bui.
Cameron:But just learning things from, because it's not just one tribe, it's many tribes that come to this, including me, you know? Even though I'm O'odham, know, I'm not from this area, you know? And so and then while I was here, you know, like, I started to, I would just say, see things, you know, and not only see them, I feel things, you know. Mhmm. And, like, yeah, couldn't explain it.
Cameron:But I just, alright. Well, it's a part of this journey. And remember one time I was at JTR when it was right across from here. I was standing outside, and that was over a year ago. They had a where all the planets I think it was five planets aligned or whatever.
Troy:Okay.
Cameron:Yeah. And it was, like, 03:00 in the morning. Or, no, like, maybe almost four.
Troy:Okay.
Cameron:And I went out there to empty the trash, you know. And just stood there, and I looked at it. And I just stood there, and I started praying. And then I remember two of the nurses were coming, and then, like, two days later, they were like, Oh, was that you out there? And one of them said, Yeah, that is Cameron.
Cameron:I said, Yeah, I was telling her that was you. And he said, Oh, he's probably praying. I said, I was praying. You know, I was One of the nurses there, she told me, Well, it's spiritual warfare, and that's what I believe, you It's spiritual warfare no matter for me, that's what, you know, it is because it's within, you know. It's within and it's also around us, you know.
Cameron:We may not see it, but we feel it. Like, I was bringing the sun up just because, you know, like, no matter what, what I'm learning is that me, you, anybody around me, we didn't make it come up. We didn't make the sun, you know. So you can't stop me, you know. Right.
Cameron:You're not gonna stop me as long as my intentions and what I'm doing is, you know, for me, to the best of my ability, pure, you know, or not wanting Atianna, you can't stop me, you know? Like, I'm gonna put in, and I'm gonna get in return what creators has planned for me, you know, no matter what, you know? And so that's why it makes me happy, dude, you know? And sad, too, because, you know, like, along this journey, like, so many people have come and gone. Right.
Cameron:Like, it not Yeah. And so I just prepare, you know? I prepare myself for whenever battle, because it comes in many forms, you know? When it comes
Troy:you're gonna get hit with the good and the bad, and you're ready for it all. Well I appreciate you spending the time and sharing a little bit more of your story. You know, I'm excited to see you continue on your journey, especially with us here, and then, you know, it's sad to see people go, but knowing that you're going to bring what you've gained here to another place that needs it, that feels good. That feels real good. And I agree with you, there's something spiritual about the space we occupy at JTR, and it's a place for people to go and be protected, and to heal, and to feel safe, and to feel welcome.
Troy:And what they do with that, it's up to them. But you got a lot of good people around you that help to hopefully steer you in the right direction, and now you're one of those people that are doing that for others.
Cameron:Yeah, I just wanna give back what was freely given to me, and that's a lot of love, a lot of teachings. Like you were saying, that spiritual part is that, you know, I mentioned it before, and it's it's out there, you know? And we were it found me. Mhmm. It found me by a person that, you know, was from here, but he was going through it, too.
Cameron:And now so who else can I find? Not only with me, you, and its manifestation, networking, all that. It's what it is, you know? And you never know, you know? And so I do.
Cameron:It's just like I say, we all put one boot on and one foot at a time, you know?
Troy:It's all the same.
Cameron:It's all the same.
Troy:Beautiful. Well, appreciate you brother. This was great and I'm excited to see where this is all going for all of us. So thank you. Well, that's our time today.
Troy:We appreciate you joining us for another Pathway to Spirit story, and we look forward to you tuning in again in the future. Until next time, I'm Doctor. Troy Melendez, be well. Thank you for joining us on Pathways to Spirit. Remember, within our traditions and our spirit lies connection, support, love, hope.
Troy:Let us walk forward together, honoring our paths and supporting one another on the journey toward physical, emotional, and spiritual health and wholeness. Until next time, may the spirits of the ancestors guide you and may you find peace, healing, and renewal in every step along your journey.