The Meat Mafia Podcast

Jenni Harris is a fifth-generation farmer at White Oak Pastures in Bluffton, Georgia. She is an advocate for regenerative, grass-fed farming, animal welfare and environmental stewardship, and is the director of marketing at White Oak Pastures. Under the visionary leadership of Jenni's father, Will Harris, White Oak Pastures has transitioned from conventional farming practices to a thriving grass-fed, regenerative model. They have successfully vertically integrated their operations, establishing their own processing facilities and creating a closed-loop, transparent food system.

Key topics discussed include:
  • The challenges and opportunities of the direct-to-consumer (DTC) model for regenerative farms like White Oak Pastures, especially in terms of logistics and supply chain management
  • The significant impact of Joe Rogan's podcast on raising awareness for regenerative agriculture and connecting with a wider audience seeking authentic, transparent food production
  • The importance of maintaining a balanced mix of wholesale and retail customers to ensure a sustainable, resilient business model for regenerative farms
  • The groundbreaking carbon sequestration study conducted at White Oak Pastures, which demonstrated the potential for regenerative grazing to mitigate climate change, and the need for a more holistic view of ecosystem health beyond carbon alone
  • The definition of "real food" as simple, whole ingredients produced through regenerative practices that emulate nature, and the importance of knowing your food's origin and celebrating its natural variations
  • The personal motivation and pride in maintaining a multi-generational family farm like White Oak Pastures, and the desire to create opportunities for future generations to continue the legacy of regenerative agriculture
Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro and the impact of White Oak Pastures' carbon sequestration study
(01:00) Challenges and opportunities of the direct-to-consumer (DTC) model for White Oak Pastures
(05:00) The impact of Joe Rogan's podcast on raising awareness for regenerative agriculture
(11:00) The importance of a balanced customer mix for a sustainable regenerative farm business
(15:00) The significance of White Oak Pastures' carbon sequestration study and the need for a holistic view of ecosystem health
(23:00) Defining "real food" and the importance of simple, whole ingredients and knowing your food's origin


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Creators & Guests

Host
Brett Ender 🥩⚡️
The food system is corrupt and trying to poison us... I will teach you how to fight back. Co-Host of @themeatmafiapod 🥩
Host
Harry Gray 🥩⚡️
Leading the Red Meat Renaissance 🥩 ⚡️| Co-Host of @themeatmafiapod

What is The Meat Mafia Podcast?

The Meat Mafia Podcast is hosted by @MeatMafiaBrett and @MeatMafiaHarry.

We're two guys who walked away from the typical path to carve out something different. Based in Austin, we’re on a mission to figure out what it takes to live a fulfilled life in a world that often pushes us away from meaning.

We have conversations with people we believe can help us, diving deep into the pillars of health, wealth, and faith, as the cornerstones of our mission.

Whether it's challenging the modern food system, questioning conventional health advice, or building something from the ground up, we're here to explore the tough questions and share the lessons we’ve learned along the way.

If you're tired of the noise and ready to find meaning, tune in and join us!



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Part 2
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[00:00:00] Should we hit it? Let's do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Our cattle sequester 3 and a half pounds of carbon dioxide equivalent for every pound of beef produced.

They're sequestering more carbon than they emit.

Livestock can heal the planet. We just got to let them do their thing.

Is there something that people can do to start really reconciling that relationship with food again?

Celebrating the inconsistency. Because they're the opposite of what conventional, industrial, commoditized food gives us.

We said we wanted something different. Now let's celebrate why it's different.

​

One of the things with the e comm and, and direct to consumer sales, that's so interesting to me is it allows you to access these wide markets across the country, but.

We're talking about a really nuanced problem where it's, it's great to be able to do that, but also that comes with a host of logistical problems on the backend where you're now having to think about like [00:01:00] delivering beef to different parts of the country where, you know, at some points of the year, it's like a hundred degrees, a hundred degrees a year.

So. How do you guys, do you think that that model, the DTC model is something that will continue to grow and become popular while we transition, hopefully to a more local model or more like more of a hybrid model? Yeah, I'll answer that in a couple of different parts. So, uh, one of my favorite quotes, uh, is just because you can doesn't mean you should.

And so part of direct to consumer, Distribution or wholesale distribution, uh, is kind of rooted in the fact that just because you can ship there, maybe doesn't mean that you need to ship there. So when, when it gets hot here and it gets hot other places, we draw in our shipping radius so that what we are shipping is stuff that we know will make it.

Unless, you know, there's a ball dropped in a. You know, a delay that's unforeseen, uh, on [00:02:00] the UPS FedEx side, uh, you know, we, we pretty much only go after the business and serve the regions that we know we can successfully ship to, um, you know, I think that e commerce in general is becoming more localized.

You know, when, when we started, there were no 3PLs. It was not like you went to a third party logistics company and said, Hey, I want you to carry these 40 SKUs and I want you to handle all these orders and you to handle all these orders and you to handle all these orders. Uh, you know, it, it was, if you got it and it can get picked up by UPS, then that's the way it went.

And our shipping radius, you know, measured that we didn't try to ship to California because hell, I can't get it there. Uh, not with the ground network at least. So, uh, you know, what, what I see in e commerce is there are companies that are using 3PLs to [00:03:00] do order fulfillment. Which means that they might have a, a business based in Princeton, New Jersey, but they'll ship out of a warehouse in Sacramento to the West Coast orders and a warehouse and, you know, Missouri for the, the, you know, the Midwest and then a warehouse and, uh, you know, wherever, you know, uh, North Carolina for the East Coast.

You know, for us, I don't really want multiple warehouses shipping orders. I, I, I don't, I want to do it myself. You know, that, a resilient food production system is, you know, one that, that, you know, can operate in disturbance. And if I'm working with the 3PL with 50 other, you know, folks using it, I don't know that they're going to ship my stuff.

So for us, we, we draw in our own radius to make sure that it's, It's what we can handle. But I do believe that e commerce continues to hyper localize a place to test order from another meat company and You know, they're based in Massachusetts, [00:04:00] but, you know, they're order shipped from Jacksonville. They're clearly using the 3PL and that's, that's their model.

Yeah, that's great insight, Jenny. And it's also encouraging to hear about the uptick in business. Um, from going on Joe's podcast, I, I had so many friends. that aren't super plugged into the regenerative space or the meat based space that sent me that episode. And I just think back to the impact that Joe has had in general, you know, for me, when I was really sick, I heard about the carnivore diet for the first time on his podcast.

starting that diet got me off all the drugs and medication. And then I think about someone like you and your dad that are truly teaching people. What does regenerative mean? What does it mean to connect with your local rancher? Really? What is the definition of real food? And he's like the perfect combination of right platform, right messaging.

So I'm sure that that experience for you is incredibly humbling. And just the ability to tell your family story super authentically. I mean, think about how many millions of people [00:05:00] probably heard about regenerative agriculture for the first time, just by you being able to go on that podcast. Yeah, Joe Rogan was a gift for us.

You know, uh, being invited, you know, dad was invited to be on his podcast in November of, of 22. And the amount of inbound that we received after that was just absolutely mind blowing. I mean, it was like, I figured out. I knew that I needed to prayer for an uptick in in shipping orders. You know, I assumed that that would happen.

I assumed that demand would happen, but the outpouring of just information seeking, love sharing, community building people that just wanted to connect and say, Hey, let's, let's You know, let's talk. Let's, uh, you know, let's trade notes. I just want to let you know I love you, you know, like, keep going that the type of the, the amount of inbound that we received was incredible.

And we went back on in November of 23, and it happened all over again, [00:06:00] you know, so it is audiences. ready to hear something different. They've really kind of lost confidence in, you know, main stream media. They want to, you know, they want to hear him sit down and just have conversations with people that do things differently.

Uh, and so it was a true gift from God. Does it surprise you someone like him being Just as interested as he is in high quality food production. Like the more I learn about his background, when it comes to this topic, like he's raised chickens, now he's a hunter at one point, I think he was thinking about going vegetarian and then he met Steven Ronella and became a hunter and started going down this meat based animal based carnivore journey.

Does it surprise you that someone like that is just so interested in willing to have these conversations with. Farmers like you and you and your father, you know, I'm not, I'm not really surprised. I think that, you know, [00:07:00] the type of person that really is interested in being a lifelong learner and, you know, uh, not necessarily accepting it to be true because someone else said it was true.

But to go straight to the source, um, you know, it doesn't surprise me. He's an incredible guy. Jenny, when you're so when you're getting gearing up to fly to Austin to go on Joe's show, are you nervous at all? Are you excited? Is it a combination of both? I mean, like you said, you'd obviously seen the huge uptick.

Her business and awareness when your dad went on the podcast solo, but I'm curious for you getting to go on his podcast, what were, what were the feelings kind of like leading up to it? Oh, I was nervous as hell, you know, and not because not for, I'm very comfortable and confident in what I do. And I'm fiercely proud of, of, of what we do here in Bluffton, but I was nervous that I was going to let people down.

You know, I didn't want to let the hard work that goes in from, you know, You know, [00:08:00] 150 people that call White Oak Pastures home. I didn't want to let them down. You know, I didn't want to, to, uh, have the, the biggest and best opportunity that I have ever had in my career and might ever have in my career. Uh, and, and, And not make these people proud so that the nerves were not because of Joe and he's, he's so nice.

I mean, he's so easy to talk to and there's no script, you know, you just just like this, you show up and you, you have conversations, but, you know, the, the nervousness came from, we were all work really, really hard. And I've got this opportunity to share it with a huge audience. Please let me not fuck that up.

Please let me not. Well, it's, it's interesting to hear that because you came off in terms of how you presented yourself. I'm not just saying this, you came off super polished and super competent and honestly, just relax. So maybe that's just the Joe effect of like, once you put the headphones on, you're like, I just feel like I'm talking to a really good friend, [00:09:00] but I mean, you were both incredible on that show.

And I mean, there were so many people that re shared that podcast to me, even like the little clips of the cool act going viral. Like These are people hearing about these important topics for the first time, which is why we need to keep having these conversations, because the more we can publicly share this stuff, that's how we kind of regenerate the entire food system.

Yeah, and I, and I appreciate that. I don't think I did, uh, you know, you always walk away and listen to you think, man, I should have said, man, I should have said, you know, you, you, you, uh, fifth quarter quarterback or whatever it's called backseat drive or do, do what you do when you have those types of opportunities.

So, I don't necessarily feel like I did a great job, but I am honored to have had the experience of sharing, not only what we do, but what so many other farms like ours do. You know, it's, it's. You know, we're not the only ones doing this. You know, there, there are options out there, but we just have got to, we've got to all talk about it.

You know, we've got to all network. We've got [00:10:00] to all benchmark and share what's working and what's not working. You know, I, I talked to Greg Gunthorpe, uh, regularly. Uh, I talked to R. C. Carter. I talked to A. J. Richards. You know, I mean, I, I talked to the, the Klipkes at, uh, 1915 Farms in Texas. You know, I, I, I'm, I'm just, I'm grateful for the community that I have grown to know and love that do so many things that are so similar, uh, and that are so open about their experiences.

Is there anything that you wish you had gotten to talk about while you were on Rogan that maybe he didn't ask you about? Um, you know, not that I can think of. I, uh, I think I probably blacked out for two hours and 30 minutes. I don't even really know what we talked about. One of the things I was, I was interested in talking about a bit, um, is just [00:11:00] the rise that, you know, there was a period in time where there was a pretty, uh, aggressive push against animal products.

And obviously, I think we're still facing that. And the three arguments that get laid out are one, it's not dietary, dietarily beneficial to eat animal products. And we can have that argument and then there's the environmental component. And then there's the humane component. And I think the environmental one, you guys kind of pioneered piercing the veil on that conversation a bit with the study that was funded by general mills.

And I think Epic might've been involved with that. I'm not entirely sure. But the carbon sequestration topic is such a nuanced one, and, you know, it's, it's a great starting point for a lot of people, but I'd love to get your take on that study. What came from it afterwards, like, you know, how are you guys affected by that?

And then there's plenty of other nuance to this, but I really do think your dad is a pioneer because I [00:12:00] remember reading an article. Where on one hand, I just read this amazing piece on carbon sequestration and how great it is. And then he came out and said, well, there's more to the story here. You can't just focus on the carbon.

So I'd love to get your take on, on just that whole conversation. Yeah, uh, you know, the, the General Mills funded, uh, LCA done by Qantas was one that was a real, a real mile marker for us. I remember having it done around the time that I was pregnant with our son, Jack. I had had had a baby and, uh, it was fiercely proud of just like growing a whole human and just doing that.

And, uh, and so, you know, my dad was and I had Jack around the same time the study came out. And I was with somebody, and they said, Oh, Will, do you have a picture of your grandson? And he said, No, but I've got this LCA that shows that our farm sequesters more carbon than it emits. And, and I was like, hell, [00:13:00] yeah, you know, I kind of get that.

I hear you, Will Harris. So, uh, you know, for us, you know, we, we were a good test site because we've, uh, been farming on our home place for 160 something years. Probably 30 of it now being regenerative and holistic land management, but we've also been blessed enough to expand our land base and we've bought some land, you know, every year or couple of years.

So, but we treated all we treated it and continue to treat it all the very same. So it allowed Qantas to come in and take soil samples. From land that had been treated regeneratively for 15 years or 20 years. I don't remember what the year markers there were, but let's just say 15 years land that have been treated regeneratively for 10 years for 5 years for 1 year.

And then, you know, just purchased not regenerative at all. And what it [00:14:00] showed was that, you know, with regard to our beef production, our cattle sequester 3 and a half. Uh, 3 and a half. pounds of carbon dioxide equivalent for every pound of beef produced. So they're, they're, they're sequestering more carbon than they emit.

And that was just really important for us to get the conversation going and put teeth in the argument that livestock are not ruining the planet. Livestock can heal the planet. We just got to let them do their thing. We got to help them return back to the way they evolved and emulate nature. to give them that opportunity to take that, you know, the stimulation from their hooves and grazing and the fertilization from their defecation.

You know, my God, it's like magic, you know, holy cow, these magic animals turn grass. which is not nutritionally beneficial to you and I, they turn it into beef, which is extraordinarily beneficial to you and I. [00:15:00] And they, they take land that, uh, you know, is degraded and they turn it into, uh, you know, land with lots of naturally occurring flora and fauna and organic matter.

Wow, they're just like literal magicians. Way to go. Uh, you know, and so, So that that was a pretty, uh, a pretty monumental moment, but people latched on to that and really drove home the carbon argument. You know, it was all about the carbon when in reality. Carbon is just one of nature's cycles. You know, how, how good is it to have really well cycled carbon if you don't have water to drink?

We'll, we'll get to stick around for about three days to look at that healthy carbon cycle if we don't have a good functioning water cycle. And we're seeing those effects, you know. We're seeing droughts in the Midwest and West and we're seeing, you know, wildfires and we're seeing what broken [00:16:00] water cycles look like, you know, there's the community cycle, the microbial cycle, the grazing cycle, there's tons of cycles that we don't even know about.

I'm sure that I wouldn't even be able to wrap my tiny little feeble brain around it, but it's the, the beauty of nature. And so it was like the LCA did so much good in proving that livestock are not ruining the planet with regard to carbon. You know, this, that's not the argument that needs to be had, but it did give, uh, folks An excuse to grab onto carbon and run with it, which, you know, is, is, is really, uh, it's just like a, a, a paragraph from a really long book.

You know, it's just a paragraph. You're, it's like you're watching a ball game, you know, through a broken slat and a fence. You can't see what happens way down there, and you can't see what happens way back down there. You can only see what's happening right in front of you. And, you know, so our, our mission has always been to raise awareness for all of nature's cycles to be functioning and [00:17:00] for all of them to be cycling naturally.

Yeah. It's almost like the, the ultimate double edged sword where it's like on one hand, you're super happy that you have science that can quantify the fact that. cows really are like God's ruminant and it's sequestering carbon into the soil. But like you said, and your dad always say, there's so many other cycles.

So I feel like the study is a great phase one, but the phase two is like, you gotta, you gotta just go out and visit some of these ranches and these farms and see it with your own eyes, the way that the land is regenerated and talk to people like you and your dad that have been out there for multi generations.

And hearing you talk about all the different species and the reintroduction of these species, just by incorporating regenerative practices. It's like the studies are great phase one, but the second phase is like, you got to go out there and meet your rancher and see things for yourself before you make a judgment on whether beef is good or bad for the environment.

Well, you know, and, and you're exactly right, but the unfortunate truth is meeting your ranchers hard. You know, it's, it's, it's [00:18:00] inconvenient. It takes time. It takes effort. It takes research. Uh, and it's, it was really easy to grab that really sexy paragraph and paste it everywhere and disregard. You know, the, the real teeth of the argument, which is it's not behold it on one cycle, you know, again, if, if we have a really great carbon cycle, but the water cycle is messed up at first and death does not sound very appealing to me.

Um, so yeah, it's interesting. The, the response to the study actually really does, it speaks to. A lot of the just general thinking and thought process that exists within the legacy food system and healthcare system, which is very mechanistic where you can measure one thing and try to notice one problem, and then you just completely forget about the rest.

Well, it's like we want to put it all on an Excel spreadsheet, and I'm, I'm just from a business perspective as guilty as anybody else, but, you know, when you start putting all of that on a spreadsheet, it gets [00:19:00] really confusing, and, but it's, it's really easy to drill down and drill down hard on one thing.

It's sort of like, You know, from a business plan perspective, you know, we've got tangible and intact, intangible things. We've got, uh, revenue generating departments and non revenue generating departments and, you know, the, the mix of that is really hard to put on a, a financial report that a bank asks for, you know, uh, my dad's.

You know, really eager to get broiler chickens back in our production system. And so, you know, I remind him, you know, wait a minute, we've got this, you know, this beef demand, we've kind of retooled our poultry processing plant for beef. You know, if we go back into the poultry business, we're going to have to not process as much beef.

And he says, but Jenny, think about the benefit to the land, not having, you know, chickens on the land is, is, Uh, you know, it's not giving the [00:20:00] land what it needs. And so there's, there's always sort of this balancing act of, of, it's not all just in that bottom line. Uh, you know, it, it's, it's bigger than that.

It's, it's harder to explain than that. So if Oido gets some chickens, we can expect some videos of you eating raw chicken on camera? Without question. Me and my buddy, Raw Chicken Exper, Exper, uh, Experience or Experiment. I don't know. But, uh, what is it? Experiment. Yeah. Without question. If we, if we do that, you can count on it.

I'll start a new Instagram and we'll, we'll go to town. We're going to do a collab together. We're all three of us will eat some raw chicken together. And, and drink eggs. Yes. I might be sticking to the raw egg yolks and no, no chicken. I, I can't believe he does that. I mean, wow. Just wow. Way to, way to produce some content, man.

Go ahead, Harry. Sorry. I [00:21:00] was just gonna say, you guys have to be The social media is is obviously a hot topic. It's very interesting, like having witnessed the growth and emergence of social media and all of our lives. But the 1 thing that stands out to me is just that there is a way to use this thing to raise awareness around so many of these different topics.

And raw meat experiment is just 1 of many examples of countering or, uh, you know, building a social media following that. Like directly contradicts a lot of what conventional wisdom and knowledge says, and not saying he's a perfect example or anything like that. But I do think that there is just this great tool that we now have to raise awareness around what's happening in the food system.

And, um, I think you guys are probably one of the many net beneficiaries just being able to get your message. From Bluffton, Georgia broadcast all across the world. Yeah, I have such a love hate relationship with social media and it's more on the hate side than the love side. Uh, you know, the, the, the trolls [00:22:00] that pop up and you know, you're like, man, I wasn't even really talking about that.

You, you know, you're, you're going off in a direction that I was. Uh, not even intending, you know, but the, the social media part of it is really special, you know, for us because we are very rural and very remote. And sadly, the amount of people that pass through Bluff Bluffton or will make an effort to come to Bluffton will be very, very small.

Far and few between. So it does give us an opportunity, uh, to share things directly from, from the farm to, to a huge audience. And at the end of the day, it's free. You know, it costs nothing. You know, yeah, sure, some time, but it costs nothing to share your story with people who are hungry to hear it. Uh, and I'm, I'm reassured by that.

Jenny, what is your definition of real food? I know that's an open ended question. I would just be curious to get the rancher's perspective of what your definition of real food is. [00:23:00] That's a good question, and one that I probably have not put enough thought into, but, you know, I'm so focused on the fact that when I go to the grocery store and I flip around and I look at a label, it is clear that that is a manufactured product.

You know, there's tons of ingredients and half of them are, uh, you know, things that I don't even, I can't pronounce, nor have I ever heard of. You know, to me, real food is simply grown, few ingredients. Uh, you know, and, and, and, you know, You know, and whole in every sense. You know, we talk a lot about, or we get asked a lot, What is a factory farm?

A factory farm, to me, has very little to do with scale, but more so complexity. You know, you think about a sock factory is not just all of a sudden going to produce underwear. They're just gonna produce socks because all their equipment is just for socks. Uh, a factory farm is one that [00:24:00] only does one thing.

It only produces one product. You know, in, in my mind, uh, whole food comes from a, a system that was, you know, emulating nature. Uh, you know, healthy biome with emphasis on a lot more stuff than the bottom line. Yeah, it's a very, um, it's a very complicated question in terms of like how we got to the current state that we're in in terms of the industrial food complex, industrial farming, the metabolic health crisis.

But it's a very simple solution. It's like if we go back to what you said of literally just source single ingredient real foods that are created by God, grown by a rancher, develop a relationship with your rancher, cut out the middleman, hook those actual ingredients in like a great quality fat, like a tallow, a lard, butter, olive oil.

And then just cook those meals and share those meals with people that you love. That's really all it needs to be. And you're going to get into amazing shape because the body knows how to process those foods so incredibly well. It's like [00:25:00] we we've overcomplicated it with. Caloric deficits and carnivore and vegan and all these different modalities, and it's like literally just source your food super well, know your ranchers, cook your meals, you're gonna be healthier than 99% of the population.

And it's as simple as that. Yeah. You, you hit the nail of the head. And I'm not one to talk about nutritional things or, or health or any of that. You know, I, I, I drink wine and eat cornbread and don't have any intentions of quitting. Uh, but I, I heard on a podcast that poor people who cook at home are healthier.

Then rich people who eat out and there's just something to be said, uh, for a person taking control of their food supply. And it's, uh, you know, it, it, it's just shocking to me, uh, what, what food has become. It's not food anymore. It's food like substances, the ingredients that go into those manufactured products can't be consumed by themselves.

Thanks. So, [00:26:00] but it's only by mixing them together that we wind up with a food like substance. You know, that's, that's really not food to me. Hmm. Yeah. I can't help but think, so the way Brett said that was, you know, complicated problem, but like, is there a, is there a simple solution that people can kind of, or simple, uh, practical advice that people can start to implement in order to start to right size this problem that we have in the food system?

And one of the things that gets tossed, talked around, sorry, tossed around a lot. Is voting with your dollar. I think it's great advice. It's phenomenal. I think there's a lot of power to it, but like, is there something even a step further that people can do to start really reconciling that relationship with food again, in my mind, I think it's really about closing that gap.

Like we've just become so distant from our food that we no longer really have this intimacy with a person growing it. It gets flown in [00:27:00] from all different sorts of sorts of places. And we just kind of show up to the. the grocery market, buy the food and then consume it. And I think that, you know, something that, that came to mind to me the other day was just like simply having gratitude around food and praying over your food and little practices like that.

Just shift your. First, your perspective and kind of break the paradigm that we've gotten really like comfortable with, which is just this like microwave economy where everything's convenient. We don't share meals with people as often anymore. I'm sure it's probably different and bluffed in, but it's just, it seems like in these big parts of the U.

S. we've just gotten really used to this convenience. And I'm wondering if you can think of, you know, anything that like makes sense to you in terms of fixing this problem and rewriting the narrative a bit. Yeah, you know, you said a lot of things which, you know, that I agree with, you know, having gratitude and being grateful for your food and the people who grow it.

I [00:28:00] think another part of it is celebrating the inconsistency, you know, I mean, if, if. Um, you know, if you're, if you buy five ribeyes and two of them look different than the other three, you know, celebrate that because that was a, an animal that, you know, finished at its own weight and, uh, you know, there's nothing making it consistent, no ration, total ration that was fed to it every day to make it a cookie cutter like experience.

And so I think that sometimes this type of movement is, is met with, I don't know how to cook it. And, you know, truthfully, there's a lot of resources, way more resources out there today than there ever have been. But those are the types of things that we celebrate. We celebrate seasonality. We celebrate inconsistency.

Because they're the opposite of what conventional, industrial, commoditized food gives us. We We said we wanted something different. Now let's celebrate why it's different. I realize that's such a good term. Sorry, [00:29:00] Harry, are we going to say something? I just said, I love that. I've never heard that term before.

And it celebrating inconsistency and even, um, like the grain, the grain finished industrial beef, it's so consistent, like it all just tastes good. But I feel like when you're talking about the inconsistency of grass finished beef regenerative from a local rancher It's either the best beef you've ever had or maybe the worst just because it's so hard to finish an animal with those practices And there's there's beauty in that too.

Like I remember I have a buddy in texas who's a who's a brand new first generation rancher And he, he gave me some ground beef and some steaks from the first, the first, uh, cow that he had ever processed before. And it was a little bit tough. It was a little bit gamey, but there was just like this joy in the fact that I knew the guy that directly grew this, it was like this really nice ruby red color to it.

And whether I was placeboing or not, I kind of felt this like. Pulsing of energy after I ate it, I just felt, I tasted the nutrient density in the product and there's [00:30:00] kind of this mindset of like, I know the guy that raised this, I know how hard he worked and now I kind of have an obligation to honor him and then also honor the animal's life too.

And not let any of this go to waste and just take that energy that I'm gaining and just live the most bad ass life that I possibly can. So obviously that's something that you relate to way more than me, but it really is this sacred transaction of like customer and rancher coming together and just like, Just cut out, just be as decentralized as possible and just cut out the middlemen.

Yeah, you know, you, you, you just said everything that I wanted to say, which is, you know, uh, factory farmed food, commoditized food is very consistent, and it is the same from place to place, from person to person, because it all winds up and is finished in the same way. You know, for, for us, it's different between summer grasses and spring grasses, and it, you know, there, there will be inconsistency.

And for us. You know, we, we want to train people or we want to have people that celebrate that and say, you know what, this [00:31:00] rib eye is a little lean. I'm going to go light on the heat and longer on the cook time because I know that if I cook this the way I would cook another steak, it'll be a little tough, you know, uh, and, and that, those are the types of customers that, that, that we want to have because they celebrate the production systems that give us that.

I think it's really easy as a consumer to overlook a lot of these things. Like I remember Brett and I got, um, some really great beef delivered to us and it was really dry season in Texas. So the farm that we had purchased from the cows were just leaner and they hadn't put on nearly as much fat and they were actually struggling in the heat.

So it was a totally different taste than what you would get from maybe a cow that was fed in the fall that had like a rich mixture of. Nuts and seeds and grasses and like, you know, more, more grass to chew on. And I think that that was kind of a shifting moment for me, where it was like, you know, if you're going to live this way, there's not [00:32:00] really going to be.

you know, this, this model that exists where everything's going to be the same. So I appreciate that, that comment. It's like, you gotta, you gotta be willing to, to grow and adapt with the food provider, because it's not always going to be as consistent when you're going through four different seasons and having to deal with all the different complexities that come with raising animals during those four seasons.

That's right. And we, we know what creates consistent food. You, you wound up, you know, you wound up shopping with us because you decided you didn't want that, that, that type of production system. So, you know, there, there's, there's not much we can do about it. Let's celebrate it. Yeah. Jenny, what gets you most motivated about the future?

It could be, Could be family, could be white oak related. I know you've got a couple of young boys that are sixth gen Harris's, which is incredible. Um, I imagine that has something to do with it, but what gets you the most excited about the future? You know, I think through the fact that, you know, my sister and I are the fifth generation of this [00:33:00] farm and we had an excellent opportunity, not an obligation, but an excellent opportunity to join my dad and carry it on for another generation.

And I think the, the thing that, that Makes me feel the most pressure and I don't mean in a bad way, but that I want to create that same opportunity for my Children and my nieces and my nephew, you know, I want them to have the opportunity to come back and work here, but not the obligation to come back and work here.

And I know that. Um, you know, that it took a tremendous amount of work for every other generation that, that, you know, adapted with food production, uh, you know, and made this farm continue from one year after the next. Um, and so I, you know, it, it, there's, there's a certain amount of pressure and pride that comes with keeping the torch alive for the next generation.

Well, we can't wait to get back [00:34:00] on that holy ground. That's white oak pastures. We, we recorded our first podcast with your dad in the pond house, which was special for Brett and I, cause that's where we stayed the first time that we We came down to White Oak in September of 2022, I believe, or 2022. And, um, it was just, it's such a remarkable place.

I encourage anyone who's listening to the show, go visit. There's nothing better than actually going and putting your feet and hands on the soil. That is where your food came from. And White Oak is particularly special. You guys are just amazing people. And the one thing that stood out to me when we were there was just.

the community and the way that everyone there respected and knew your dad and the equal if not more respect he had for everyone who was there living and benefiting from what what is white oak so um we just have so much respect for you guys and what you guys are doing and we're just truly grateful to call you guys friends at this [00:35:00] point Well, that that goes both ways.

You know, we we love growing food and, uh, you know, we can't do that if we don't have passionate consumers like you guys. Uh, who demand it. So, you know, the, the same pride and, and, and, uh, you know, the ownership that we feel of this food production system is only possible because of, of people just like y'all.

And we, we want to have y'all back here. We want you to be involved with what we're doing in Bluffton. Um, so it'd be a treat to host you again. Can we call you the first lady of the Meat Mafia? Oh, absolutely. It would be an honor. We're going to wear a custom shirt. Oh, please. I'll wear it every day. All right.

So shirt, raw chicken, wine for your dad. That's what we're going to bring when we come back out there. Let's do, let's do shirt and then I'll get really, really drunk on wine and then do the raw chicken. So if we puke, it was going to happen anyways. Yes. [00:36:00] I love it. Done. Okay. So we appreciate you so much, Jenny.

Thank you so much for doing this. Thank y'all for having us. Y'all are having me. Y'all are, uh, y'all are true friends of this farm. Thanks, Jenny. Thank you.