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Ducks Unlimited Podcast is a constant discussion of all things waterfowl; from in-depth hunting tips and tactics, to waterfowl biology, research, science, and habitat updates. The DU Podcast is the go-to resource for waterfowl hunters and conservationists. Ducks Unlimited is the world's leader in wetlands conservation.
Chris Jennings: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Ducks Unlimited podcast. I'm your host, Chris Jennings. Joining me once again on the DU podcast is John Pullman, a freelance contributor to Ducks Unlimited magazine and ducks.org. John, welcome back to the podcast. Hey, thanks Chris. I am excited to get you on today to discuss this topic and you and I have gone back and forth. You have written a couple pieces in the magazine relating to this and it's probably one of the most important aspects of before the hunt. It doesn't really have anything to do with the hunt, but the importance of it. And what we're talking about here is communicating with landowners. And it doesn't matter if you are freelancing the PPR or trying to get a lease in Mississippi or Arkansas or, you know, hunting a, you know, a slough somewhere in Missouri or, you know, some property in California, you know, it really, this covers the entire country. And, you know, getting, gaining, not only gaining that access, but being able to maintain access to certain properties. And back before I moved here to Memphis, living in Indiana, I had a, I had a Rolodex of access. And this was before people were going out and, you know, leasing property up. It was still kind of a, hey man, I'm gonna go knock on that door and get access to this, you know, slough or strip pit or wherever there's a bunch of birds. And not only did I learn those lessons then as far as getting access, but maintaining that access over the years. And I did it, you know, consistently for, you know, seven, eight years with some of these property owners. And there are ways to do it and there are ways to ruin it. And I think that's where When we had this original discussion, you brought up a bunch of really good tips. And some of these tips here, one of them that I want you to go ahead and start off with, which I think is one of the better ones, is being honest. Being honest with the landowner on what you're doing, how you're doing it. But I'll let you go ahead and explain what you mean by that.
John Pollmman: Yeah, so you know when I put together this piece on it, I did visit with one of the landowners here in South Dakota and just to pick his brain about things and he and I agreed on all of these. These were things that I have come to know and to be really important and he emphasized as well that these are are really important things for him as someone who does grant access to hunters, which we are so fortunate to have those opportunities still where you can knock on a door or make a phone call and they'll give you permission to do it, to access their ground. It's a privilege and you got to treat it like that, right? And so being honest, and that was the first thing that he and I talked about. Tell the truth. Be honest about who you are. Don't try to hide anything. You know, anything that you, any lie that you say or any, you know, if you're dishonest, you know, that's going to come back and bite you in the butt. Just be honest about who you are, where you're from, how many people you're going to be taking along with you, what you're planning to do if you're telling them that you're just hunting ducks and geese, don't take a pot shot at a rooster pheasant, you know, out the door or something stupid like that. Just be honest about who you are. that's about building trust and about building relationship. And the other thing that he mentioned is something that I do as well. If you're guiding, you know, if it's something where you're a freelance guide and you're working in an area, chances are you probably are, the word is out that that's what you're doing. But make sure that you tell that landowner that, hey, you know what, I've got clients, this is a paid gig. Because sometimes that changes, you know, it changes the nature of things. So be honest about the whole picture and it could lead to some better opportunities for you in the future.
Chris Jennings: Yeah, you know what's interesting is it just popped in my head. Every state has a little bit different access laws as far as the relationship between a hunter and, you know, a landowner. And I think that's one thing as far as being honest, that's where that honesty comes in because that landowner probably knows what those laws are. And like you said, if you're freelance or your guiding clients, there could be some legal stipulations there that would either get him in trouble or you in trouble, one way or the other. So that's something, you know, really bringing it up to their attention. And like you said, don't take a potshot of something. If you've got access on a little slew and you're hunting mallards, I don't care if it's a 14 point buck walks through, you know, you're not, that's, that's not what you are there for. You would, you know, You don't have to go back and ask permission to deer hunt or pheasant hunt or do whatever, any kind of hunting, even a coyote, anything, you know, really be honest about that and, and hold yourself accountable to that as well.
John Pollmman: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's, it's just, you don't, you break that trust once and that's probably the only opportunity you have. Be honest, be upfront, and then stick to your word. If you say you're bringing four people, bring four people. If you're bringing eight, bring eight. And if something changes, let them know.
Chris Jennings: Oh, yeah. And like you said, it might be the last time you get access to that if they find out that you're being dishonest. Your next tip is probably not the most important, but right up there with being honest. Knowing where you stand. And that's not necessarily knowing where you stand as far as the relationship between landowner but knowing exactly where you stand as far as the property lines. Yeah.
John Pollmman: Yep. And like I say in the piece, there's, we really don't have any excuse anymore, um, with, uh, like on X, um, you know, other, other online, uh, resources that you have, you know, to know exactly the field that you're asking on or the, or the piece of water, you know, knowing that you're asking the right landowner. I've had it happen to me, you know, where it was a relative or a brother that actually owned, you know, a property. And so, you know, he was very clear about making sure that I was talking about the right piece, you know, and it ended up having to go talk to somebody else about it. But again, it's kind of an extra step you take when you can be as specific as possible. Here's where, this is a piece, bring it up on your phone, bring a map up on the phone, take a screenshot of it, send it to them so that they know exactly where you're talking about. Because it leads to, you know, making a mistake there can lead to a confrontation between you and the landowner, but also can lead to a confrontation between that landowner, maybe any relations they have with surrounding. you know, neighboring landowners as well. Hey, this guy gave me permission to hunt in your ground, you know, so on. And so, know where you're at and then, like I say, communicate that with them one way or the other. Like I say, screenshot or show them your phone if you're asking in person just so they know for sure that you're talking about the same place.
Chris Jennings: Yeah, and I don't know if you're familiar and I don't know the backstory or anything, but there was a video on Facebook last, probably February. where there was some confusion, it sounded like, on who owned this little section of property or who had the rights to hunt it. And this particular farmer was frustrated. And whoever was hunting this, putting snow goose decoys out in this field, felt like they were in the right. And it was the wildest video I've seen as far as water, well, probably not the wildest, but pretty close. Well, this farmer, hitched up his, basically like a tiller, and ran through a snow goose spread.
John Pollmman: And it is wild.
Chris Jennings: If you can look at, if you can find this online, again, I don't know the details of it. I do know that there was a spat regarding who had permission and who didn't, and you know, grandma granted permission, but The nephew's cousin's uncle was supposed to hunt it, but then the farmer got involved, and so he literally just mowed down an entire snow goose spread, and it was wild to see. But that's one of those things where, like you said, know where you stand, know where you're at, know exactly. And like I said, there's no excuse with onyx. I mean, no reason why you don't know exactly where you're at. And that way, you just avoid all of this.
John Pollmman: Exactly. And if you say you're hunting in this corner of the field, I mean, we try to be as specific as possible. We're going to be hunting right there so that they know. So that if something were to happen, that they understand right exactly where you're going to be. Or they may say, you know what, that landowner's got people that are going to be hunting there or whatever just so you know the full picture. But if you say you're going to be in this part of that field, be there. And if something changes, let them know. Shoot them a text or whatever just to say, hey, we're actually going to be, whatever, hunting on the opposite end because of the wind or whatever it is.
Chris Jennings: Yeah, and if they're specific about where they don't want you to hunt, don't go there. Yeah, I mean, I've hunted places where you've gotten permission to hunt, like a slough, and all these birds are just going into the field. And you know the landowner owns the field, but you can't just hop up and go start field hunting without having that conversation. There could be a legitimate reason why they don't want you out there. It could be safety, it could be anything. But that's definitely something, knowing where you stand is a really, really good tip. The next one you talked about is timing and this kind of leads into just common courtesy and I think a lot of this gets lost sometimes in the chaos of trying to get access when birds are on a big roost or You know where they're going to feed during the day, and you see other trucks driving down the road, and you know someone else sees it, and I think sometimes this gets lost, but you called it all in the timing. Go ahead and explain that.
John Pollmman: Well, the way you set that up, you make me feel really guilty because I've broken this rule probably a couple of times where you're so stinking excited about You know, we had a field hunt for mallards, you know, a number of years ago. It's just a massive number of birds that were hitting this spot and we were so stinking excited. And so we wanted to get permission for it. We raced up to a field where we figured out where the landowner was harvesting corn. And we made the cardinal sin of making him stop the combine. And that was not a good idea. And so he still gave us permission to hunt, which I'm forever grateful for because it was a banner day. And the landowner that I talked to about this piece said the same thing, you know, be respectful about when you ask. Don't make them stop the green cart. Don't make them stop the combine. If you got a cell phone number, that's the easiest thing to do because they can pick up the phone and talk while they're harvesting. And same thing, you know, in terms of chores and stuff like that, try not to interrupt them when they're doing their work. They got enough going on as it is. So a phone call maybe at the right time or stopping in at the right time. And even more so than that, you know, if you if you're hunting in a place that where you've been before, you expect we may be going to be calling a land or hunting on a landowner's ground that you know that you've been at before. Give me a heads up, you know. month before the season say hey I'm coming to coming to your neck of the woods and that you know second week in November just as I might be you know stopping in to ask for permission let them know so they can kind of have it on the radar too if if somebody else stops to ask and he may say hey I've already got somebody that's probably gonna be coming to hunt this or whatever but be respectful about it and again it's just about building that relationship so that you're more likely to have some opportunities down the road and that's that's kind of what this is all about.
Chris Jennings: Yeah. And when they're in the fields like that, like you said, you know, you made the mistake of having the guy stop the combine. Uh, you know, time is money out there and it could him stopping or, you know, some process I've actually seen guys pull in and block like a, to stop and then walk out to ask permission, but they're blocking the trailer to come in to pick the grain up from the grain cart. And it's like, you have just stopped process this whole entire process, you know, comes to a halt if you, if you block that. Uh, so yeah, that's a good way to, to really, uh, get on the bad side of a landowner when you're, you know, messing with that. Like you said, it's all about communication. Um, you know, reach out to them beforehand, or if you have a phone number, call, text, however. Um, but definitely that is probably the cardinal sin to get out there and bother them during that, during harvest is, is probably the worst idea you could possibly have.
John Pollmman: I'm embarrassed to admit that, but I did do it.
Chris Jennings: Hey, it was the last time you did it, I bet. So the last one here is, you know, pick up after the haunt. Actually, it's not the last one. It's the second to last one. This one seems obvious, but it is completely, you know, eye-opening to see what some hunters will do and leave in the field when given access to certain properties. It's amazing, but go ahead and I'll let you explain, you know, who the farmer you spoke with and the importance of just picking up everything that you brought with you.
John Pollmman: Yeah, I mean, that's just common courtesy, right? You wouldn't go to somebody's house and be invited in or be allowed into their house for a meal or something. leave your dirty dishes on the table or you know, I mean it's just common courtesy. So if you just pick up after yourself, if you open a gate to get into a field, close the gate when you're done. The landowner that I talked to said that he actually had guys dig a pit. They hadn't asked permission to do it in the first place. And then, so they dug a little shallow pit, I would assume maybe for the layout blinds to get them down a little bit lower, and then they didn't fill in the holes when they were done. So not only did they not ask permission to do that, then they didn't fill the holes in, so the next spring he finds these. shallow or maybe not so shallow depressions in his field. And, you know, puts two and two together. It was those guys that were hunting that, you know, just common courtesy. If you move something, put it back. If you pick up your empty shotgun hulls, you know, Mojo, there's other, there's others out there. They make great little tools, magnets on the end that you can pick up your, pick up your hulls and throw them in a five gallon, five gallon bucket, throw them away, pick up after yourself. Because I, guarantee that if you break that rule and don't pick up after yourself, you're not only going to impact you, but you're going to impact other hunters down the road. Because the landowners are going to be like, heck no, they leave a mess, I'm not going to do that anymore.
Chris Jennings: Yeah, I mean, and if you're field hunting, and we did this, I don't know, this is probably four or five years ago, and we went around and picked up lots. Uh, you know, if you, we were snow goose hunting, but in shooting a bunch, uh, but you know, your wads not going that far away from where you're shooting and you can just walk a perimeter around your, wherever the shooting hole is, the direction of where you're shooting and pick up wads as well as, you know, shotgun holes and shotgun holes are the obvious ones. Um, and super easy to pick up now with, you know, these new tools, you can just walk around the field and pop it up, but bottles of, soda or anything like that. Do not leave anything out there, because like you said, you'll jeopardize it for everyone. You know, really put everyone in a bad spot. You know, and that's one, I told this story before we started recording. I had some, some people that I know in North Dakota who were offering, they thought, and they have, they have owned a bunch of land, and they thought, you know what, we'll set a fifth wheel out here. And this was probably 10, 15 years ago. put a fifth wheel out, rent it out, make some money, let some people hunt on some of their property, and they did it one time. They leased it out to, you know, seven or eight guys that showed up from out of state. They trashed the fifth wheel, left trash all over the property, and they literally have not had anyone on their property since. You know, like you said, they ruined it for everyone. So, that can have massive repercussions. Absolutely. So, the last one, and this is always a good one, and there's a million different ways to do it, but you just mentioned it as just say thanks. You know, like be appreciative, obviously. And so, what did your buddy, the farmer that you spoke to up there, you know, how did he kind of, you know, and I think this is a good lesson for hunters, like what is a good way to say thanks?
John Pollmman: Yeah, you know, he just mentioned that he just appreciates it. And honestly, for him, he said, even if they've got a great picture from the day. and somebody will shoot you a text with a with a gripping grin from the morning and just says, hey, thanks for letting us out. Here's how it went. Here's what we did. And, you know, and he said, yeah, it's great to get. Sometimes somebody will drop off a gift card to the steakhouse or, you know, some people want money. I mean, that's that's a whole nother conversation, which is fine. But, you know, we're a good bottle of whiskey or a bottle of wine or whatever it is. That doesn't have to be that. But he just said sometimes it's just that simple. shooting a text with a picture from the morning or maybe you catch a great image of the sunrise or something birds coming over the over the hillside or whatever it is something that you can you know that you can share with a landowner just to say thanks I appreciate it. You know I still like to write just a handwritten note and down the road, send a note, I'll print out a picture, just because I'm old school like that sometimes, and you know, a picture of the dog with a bird, or making a retrieve, whatever, and just to say, appreciate it. Here's my name, my phone number, and really appreciate me on your ground, and you know, hopefully down the road, I can do it again sometime, but it's just, it's a simple act, but it goes a long way.
Chris Jennings: Yeah, it's amazing what a good bottle of bourbon will get you. And that's a fact. I mean, one of the guys that, and I don't lease hunting ground from him, but I lease house from him in Arkansas. And he had some guys from Mississippi and he's like, oh, these guys have been hunting, you know, some of his fields for like 10 years. And they do spec hunts. That's pretty much what they do on his property. And, and I just asked him, I was like, well, just curious, but like, what are you leasing your ground for? And he's like, oh, I don't, I don't lease to anyone. And I was like, well, you just give them access? And he goes, well, he's like, every time I know they're there, he's like, I go in his farm shop, and the refrigerator's got a note on the door. And he's like, there's a 30-pack of beer and a good bottle of bourbon sitting right there. And so these guys have been hunting this property for 10 years. And I was like, huh, that's a pretty good idea. You know, that's pretty motivational there. But no, that's great. Any other tips that you can think of, you know, just gaining access? Like you mentioned, one thing that pops out to me is like on X, you know, that access now, you know, if I had that back in the day when I was knocking on doors, you know, what a game changer. And now it's just in the palm of your hand. It's fantastic. But is there anything else you can think of?
John Pollmman: You know, I just, it kind of goes back to the timing one a little bit, but, but being present outside of the hunting season, if you can. you know, if you can lend a hand during the spring or the summer, if they've got stuff going on, whether that's chores or take them fishing in the summer. I've got a good buddy that he does that with his landowners where he'll invite them out for a fishing trip. You know, just a way to, you know, one, it's a reflection of just how much it means to you, right? We love duck hunting. We love hunting waterfowl. And these people are giving us the opportunity to be able to do it in some pretty cool places. And so it lets them know that you're serious about it, that you are, you know, that you are, that you're taking that relationship, you know, serious and that you, that you want to build something there. And so if you can find a way to be present outside of September, October, November, December, that's, that's probably the other, the other big tip I'd have.
Chris Jennings: No, that's great. And I think all these are great. And it really, I'm sure there's others out there and probably every situation that's a little bit different. I mean, there may be, there may be a farmer out there who's like, I would prefer you to come up and make me stop the combine and ask permission.
John Pollmman: I doubt that. I doubt that.
Chris Jennings: Not many, but maybe.
John Pollmman: Yeah.
Chris Jennings: I grew up in corn country. Trust me. Those guys don't want to stop. I can just guarantee that. Well, cool, John. This has been great. These are some great tips. I think they're, you know, valuable for, you know, like I said, we kind of target the campus waterfowl towards a younger audience, but, you know, these are something that really can impact every waterfowler out there who's trying to get access to some new ground or, you know, drooling over the side of a big feed of ducks and really wanting to figure out how to get in. There's ways to get in for sure.
John Pollmman: Yep. Those opportunities are still out there. And I think if hunters are respectful and just use some common sense, they'll regain. Awesome.
Chris Jennings: Well, I appreciate it, John. Thanks for coming on and talking with us here and hope to have you on soon. Thanks, Chris. I'd like to thank my guest, John Pullman, for coming on and talking about landowner access, landowner communication, and the importance of every aspect in how you communicate with a landowner to get permission on their property. I'd like to thank Chris Isaac for putting the show together and getting it out to you, and I'd like to thank you, the listener, for joining us on the U Podcast and supporting wetlands conservation.