Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Your weekly dose of drug facts while dispelling fiction
0:00:00
You're listening to locally produced programming created in KUNV Studios on Public Radio. KUNV 91.5. Welcome to another episode of The Chemical Collective. The Chemical Collective offers
0:00:21
you your weekly dose of drug facts while dispelling fiction. Today, we'll be exploring the world
0:00:26
of cat and discussing its active compounds effect on the brain and its role throughout history. I'm April Contreras, and I'm Kendra McLaughlin and today I thought it could be fun to switch up some things As far as our discussion today and approach our conversation about cat differently with a good old-fashioned debate style conversation Alright. Well before we begin Kendra, can you explain to our listeners what cat is and where it comes from? Of course, of course, so cat It goes by a lot of names, African salad, Mira, Quat, all of these names is to explain this flowering plant that's native to East Africa and Iranian, the Iranian peninsula. So it's essentially a plant, it's an evergreen shrub or a tree that can grow up to 20 meters tall, and it's been used for centuries for its stimulating effects with people chewing the leaves to produce a mild euphoria and an increase in energy levels. But, for our first topic, do you know when humans first began consuming it? After some research when we decided on the topic. I pretty much dived into some Wikipedia, some PubMed to back up some sources. It looks like cat use has been traced back thousands of years, like you mentioned, Kendra. There's evidence found in some ancient Texan artwork. Some of the earliest known reference to cat comes from the Ebers Papyrus, which dates around 1550 BCE. It's pretty long time ago. Yeah, so even though it's been used for a long time, there isn't just one type of strain. The widely consumed strain of cat is called the Cathaedullus. Other strains include the Tomentosa longpipes, Tomatosa, long pipes, which probably references how tall they grow, and gracilis. Kendra, do you think the variation in the strain of cat can impact its effects? Yeah, I think it does. So there is some scientific evidence to suggest that the idea there's this variation in the strains of cat's impact and its effects, more specifically the composition of cat varies depending on factors such as the soil or the climate or the cultivation practices around it. This can result in variations in things like the concentration of the psychoactive compound in cat, which can in turn affect its potency or maybe even the effects on the body slightly. Okay, that seems to kind of follow the lines of other type of plant medicines we've been talking about, right? Yeah. And that's where it grows is definitely going to affect its potency and effects. But we know that cat use can lead to addiction and some other issues, including some negative social consequences, regardless of the strain that's being used. I don't really know of any studies that talk about specific strains and their effects, though, do you? Yeah, I don't think one outside of the one that majorly is talked about the catha, excuse me, the cathedullus. That one is primarily used in majority of the studies that I saw. But okay. And I guess probably the most common theme that I saw when during my reading was that it's a really social drug. I'm when I'm thinking about cat and the way it's used, like it looks like people chew on the leaves kind of like chewing tobacco, they put it like in their in their cheat. Yeah, yeah. So can you explain more about the social context that someone might be using? Yeah, for sure. This is definitely something that is considered more of a social drug in East Africa and Yemeni cultures. You see it's consumed in groups or gatherings to chew and socialize at the same time. And the stimulant effects of cat can component and increased communication, but people have said that there may be some negative effects in that social context. Did you see anything about some of the negative impacts that socially CAP might have? I guess the largest, probably the most common one could be financial strain. I don't know about any other real social consequences from the papers that I read, like any actual data, because it seems like there is just like, you know, we consume coffee, we had a whole episode on that. That's a really social drug. Cigarette smoking can kind of be a social drug and if you know, you're going outside, smoking with a lot of people. But I don't really see how this compound itself is very much different than that in terms of negative social effects. Yeah, no, I think that's a great point. You briefly mentioned some of the other stimulants that can maybe be compared, but I'm curious how you think CAT experience compares to other traditional or cultural drug use like the coca leaf, chewing in South America, or even the betel nut that we've discussed previously from Southeast Asia. Yeah, that's a really good point. So I guess there are some similarities if you think of these types of compounds, like if you're building that folder up in your brain, it's a plant, you're going to take parts of it and chew on it a long time to extract the different combination of alkaloids. Each plant, like cat and cocoa, contain different alkaloids, like the coca leaves, actually contain the ones related to cocaine. The stimulatory effects are a little bit different. Betel nut specifically contains archaidine, which has psychoactive effects that are different than those of cat. So it's really interesting to kind of, you know, compare and contrast the ways in which they're the same, but being mindful of the differences and at least for my research, that's where the exciting stuff comes from, because then we can kind of identify these differences and figure out ways to either enhance them or decrease them based upon the therapeutic effect or result that you want. Completely agreed. I think that it's also important to recognize the cultural and historical factors that play a significant role in the use of both or all of these traditional drugs. So for example, the coca leaf chewing is important in specifically the South American kind of culture for things like medicinal and religious purposes and betelnut is more so deeply ingrained in the cultures where it's consumed and important for us to understand the general cultural context that it's used. Each cultural practice is considered unique, I guess is what I'm trying to say. It has its own specific set of cultural, historical, and geographical factors. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Can you think of any ways that the culture surrounding cat has changed over
0:07:50
time?
0:07:51
Mm-hmm. When I think back, like, to the 20th century, there was this spread, I guess, initially beyond its traditional areas where we start to see East African immigrants bringing their practices over to new regions. And it became then that CAP became more, I don't know, visibly controversial. So there's a period of time where CAP was being considered to be banned in places like UK, and things like that. It was around like 2014 or so, because there was a debate as to whether it was a harmless cultural practice versus being a dangerous drug. As opposed to any other drug that's used in Western society?
0:08:34
Exactly.
0:08:35
Yeah, well, I think that's probably one of the most interesting aspects of reading about this, and that apparently there, this controversiality surrounding the drug and prohibiting it had led to a thriving black market of cat in some places, and that there's been some smuggling of the compound in large quantities. Yeah, because when you think about it, this was how a lot of people were getting their livelihood. It was a huge cash crop, essentially, for people who were able to keep a cat crop going during that time, and then being banned, some people wouldn't be able to essentially feed their families and things like that. So there's different sides and different perspectives for sure. But let's switch gears and start to discuss more about the mechanisms of action. Can you quickly expand on how cat works in the brain, like what receptors might be involved? compounds include cathinone, caffeine, and norephedrine, which I found to be really interesting because norephedrine appears to be related to ephedrine, which is a compound found in a type of plant that is found in the West United States. It also is chewed on for its stimulatory properties. So that was pretty exciting to read about. And so when you're chewing on cat, these compounds mimic the effects of the sympathetic nervous system in the brain. So this is your fight-or-flight system, right? And the primary psychoactive compound in a cat, the cathinone, is structurally similar to amphetamine and methamphetamine. And cathinone acts by increasing dopamine, so it binds to dopaminergic receptors and norepinephrine to improve your mood, motivation, and attention. Yeah, to kind of add on to that, but beyond just dopamine and norepinephrine receptors, gathanone also, I saw, was able to bind to things like serotonin receptors. I love serotonin. We do. Gathanone has a high affinity for the dopamine transporters specifically too. So it's removing dopamine from the synaptic cleft and terminating action. So caffeine specifically, and noradrener, it also increases dopamine release, but is considered less potent with a gradual onset and a longer duration of action from a couple of reports that we've seen. Oh, so does it take a little bit longer to act because removing, is it dopamine from the synaptic cleft takes a long time? I think that it might be have something to do with that mechanism in action, yeah. Well, what are the effects of cat on the body outside of the brain? So cat contains that psychoactive that we just mentioned, and it produces a similar effect to what we see for amphetamines. Cat use can cause an acute effect such as increases in your heart rate, elevated blood pressure, hyperthymia, and chronic effects such as liver damage, as well as things like cardiovascular disease and mental health problems. Cat use has been linked to things like oral health problems as well, periodontal disease specifically, as well as oral cancer. But I did want to mention further to that, like the differences between amphetamine and cathodone, it's drastic, even though like they are similar. This is actually referred to as a natural amphetamine cathodone. It's so much less potent than amphetamines. And it has a similar euphoric effect, but overall, because it is naturally occurring, takes longer for the mechanism of action to take place. They are in two classes, when I think about them, when I was reading them, at least. So, I guess with that in mind, the amount of cathinone in fresh cat leaves isn't enough to cause a significant harm? You have to be chewing on it for a long time, or a really long period of time? Or is there a difference? It has to be a long term.
0:13:05
Okay.
0:13:06
And so how do these long term effects vary from individuals? What's the role of nature versus nurture in this? That's always a good debate. Yeah, so the genetic and biological factors can influence the response to things like cathinone, leading to variations in the cat experience overall. But factors like sex, age, or BMI and liver function can also impact the effect of cat on the body.
0:13:38
Okay.
0:13:39
Can you think of any other ones that I'm missing? Not specifically. I guess, you know, everybody's going to respond to compounds in different ways. And I guess the way in which you're going to be taking cat, which are influenced by maybe the social and cultural settings that people grow up to use it, probably play a role in actually shaping the overall experience. Like I'm mostly aware of just people gathering in groups, putting it in their cheek, slowly chewing on over a piece of time to release that stimulant, but beyond that there's probably other practices. So further to this, what are some examples of short term effects that could be influencing some of these factors that we're talking about? Yeah, similar ones to just some other basic stimulants So you're going to feel that increase in heart rate and blood pressure really rapidly And I guess this if we're going to be thinking of negative effects This could be dangerous for people that have pre-existing cardiovascular conditions, okay? But on the flip side, you know, you're going to be getting that increase in energy alertness the psychoactive offense again are stimulant and in ways euphoric. So that kind of rush. I've also read some things about it potentially decreasing things like appetite. Some people have used this specifically as a desirable effect. And as far as like psychiatric symptoms, cats have been associated, but there's no actual hard research articles that I could find. I couldn't find any either. And then physical symptoms, similar to what you would see because of that increase in the heart rate that we've discussed. You see dilated pupils, sweating, things like that. Well, I don't really know. We've been spending a lot of time on the acute short-term effects, and there isn't that much evidence of long-term effects. But if it's a stimulant, and it's in some ways probably a little bit addictive, since it acts on the dopaminergic system, a lot of things are addictive. The brain is wired in some ways to be prone to addiction. Can you tell me a little bit about some long-term effects that are related to addiction or dependence? Yeah, yeah. So I mean anything you can become dependent on. So cat, like other stimulants, is kind of in that frame or wheelhouse where you can experience forms of withdrawal symptoms when you stop using it. But long term, maybe you might see some like dental changes, dental problems that we mentioned earlier. But yeah, very run-of-the-mill kind of, if you will. Okay, yeah, and I guess I didn't find any evidence either speaking to any long-term psychiatric problems induced by chronic use. I guess, you know, if you stop taking it after you've been taking it your whole life, you're going to be dependent on it. So there might be some anxiety in not getting it or something like that, but I don't see any big things. But yeah, like more like a psychological dependence, like this is a social thing that you normally would gather to do. It's like a ritual almost, like you'd be used to doing something like that. Yeah, but I guess yeah, like with any drug, you shouldn't take it to the point where you're going to be dependent on it, if at all. Yeah. We're not promoting taking it at all. But no, right. Is cat considered addictive? Are there any factors that may contribute to addiction specifically for cat use? Yeah, I think we've started touching on this already. And I've been kind of navigating the discussion to be leading this way. You're going to get some psychological dependence probably and experience withdrawal symptoms after prolonged use, like with any other compound that acts on the dopaminergic system and these transmitters that are really modulatory, like I'm probably going to need another cup of coffee pretty soon just to feel good and make myself feel better. So yeah, withdrawal symptoms are probably going to be a variable. And, you know, there's a, we talked about nature versus nurture, there's always a genetic and biological predisposition that could play a role in someone's potential to abuse cat. But we'll have to circle back. I don't know if you want to talk about it now, but we found some really interesting stuff about the abuse liability of cat in an awesome paper in the Lancet. I don't know if you want to talk about it now or later. I'm all for it now. Why not? Yeah. Do you want to bring it up? Yeah, so there were studies conducted by David Nutt and he essentially created a dependency versus potency kind of graph that illustrated cat as being one of the least dependent substances along a long list of other substances, which is fascinating considering how they are scheduled, which will bring up more, you know, towards the scheduling area. But I think that it's fascinating to think about the dependency component of it, because it is considered less dependent than like smelling salts and other things that are considered okay. Yeah, and so the axes on this graph are like, there's the amount of physical harm that a compound would do to you versus dependence. And so within that, a ton of different compounds are clustered there ranging from cat all the way to LSD, and like opioids and amphetamines. And so you can see like three distinct clusters of how these compounds are set up. And this paper is in the Lancet, pretty much shows that we should be scheduling drugs differently, which we can talk about more. But yeah, it was pretty cool to see cat on there because I'd never heard of it. And then it's been I've seen that graph probably a million times. And then is there the whole time? Yeah, super fascinating. But do we think that there are symptoms though of withdrawal? Like we've been talking about whether it's addictive, but what do the actual withdrawal symptoms of not using it might look like? Yeah, probably related to anxiety, irritability, fatigue. These are really general withdrawal symptoms are as intense as like serious nightmares, but they probably have like a lack of ability to concentrate, probably changes in your appetite. But compared to other compounds that are on the abuse liability scale, definitely the withdrawal symptoms appear to be less intense. Yeah, I'd have to agree with that compared to other substances like cocaine, opioids or anything like that, the withdrawal symptoms are generally more mild. Some individuals may not even experience any significant withdrawal symptoms to discontinuing using CAT, but more research is definitely needed to really understand and impact that. Okay. Well, we're going to shift gears a little bit, I think, and talk about some mechanism work. So, how long does this cat actually take to take effect? The onset of cat's effects can occur within 15 to 30 minutes after chewing, and the duration of the effect can last for up to six hours. That's a long time. That's pretty long. But that's, again, I think more so you still have it in your mouth, you're still ingesting it. But the spread of the onset can depend on various factors that we mention all the time, things like the potency of the plant. That's a really good point. I didn't really consider about how the effects might vary depending on how much you're chewing and replacing that in your cheek. Yeah, because when you think about it, it's in your mouth. You literally are releasing it every time you bite into it fresh. They really pride it on being fresh, a leaf being placed in. Okay. But I'm very, very curious if you think that cat can play a role in things like anxiety. I don't know. Some of the papers that I was reading in a review show that there's been some evidence for increased rates of anxiety, but they seem pretty correlative at best. The stimulant effects in general lead to increases in heart rate and blood pressure, which can exacerbate anxiety-like symptoms and stress. But there is some evidence that cathinone might be an interesting contributor to development of anxiety and depression, but they didn't really dive much into that at all. Yeah, I echo that sentiment. There's seems to be maybe more so mixed understandings or results for something like that. Some individuals have reported using cat to alleve symptoms of things like depression and anxiety. But it all depends on the individual, as we always say. The development of anxiety or depression may be influenced by a variety of factors, so being able to determine the specific role of CAT becomes more difficult. Okay. Well, is it possible to overdose on CAT? Again, I didn't see any real evidence to support absolutely, but as with any drug, you want to be cautious of how much you are intaking. Large quantities do increase the potency of it, but the probability of someone ingesting this much of it is pretty low. Yeah, it would take a lot. It would take a lot ultimately to feel the same kind of effects that you would feel for drinking, you know, a Strong cup of coffee. It's like a huge bushel. No, so to be able to chew that in the amount of time physically it's not possible. Yeah, and it also depending on the Cat itself where it comes from like if it's more bitter or more sweet it affects how much you're going to want to congest it. Yeah, and I am, from my reading on like opioids and other very well-established drugs that have high abuse liability, there's no established lethal dose of cat. And so yeah, the effects in general appear to be mild across the board. Okay, so we're going to hop into our last segment where I want to know, should cat be scheduled as a scheduled substance in the US? Well, when they're scheduling drugs, they consider a variety of factors, including the psychoactive compounds that are in the substance. Again, cats' psychoactive compounds have stimulating effects on the body, which can lead to adverse reactions in some. So the fresh cat leaves themselves, which contain cathinone, appear to be a Schedule I drug under the Controlled Substance Act. So Schedule I, again, means no potential therapeutic effect and pretty much harmful, stay away, like don't even touch. Yeah. Right now, because it is considered that Schedule I, it's in at least Canada, Germany, the UK, and the US, it is a scheduled one, but in the places that it origins from, they are still able to gain access to it. But although it is a scheduled one, I haven't seen much evidence that it leads to much harm or dependency, as we mentioned earlier. But yeah, regulation becomes, I guess, the next question. Do you think that it should be regulated the way that it is? Because earlier, we talked about it moving essentially to more of an underground way, and it's still happening. Does it even matter how it's regulated? I don't know. This seems like a really, probably mostly like political, socioeconomic, cultural issue, right? There are a lot of compounds which are not scheduled as tightly that we participate in using every day, like caffeine, highly addictive, we use it every day. We use alcohol in social settings, probably in a way that's similar to a cat. So, I don't know. I think there needs to be more research done in general on the effects of cat on the brain and body. I'd like to see some more rodent studies first, look at how it changes circuit level properties. And I don't know. I think we just need more actual evidence about it. Agreed. Well, it looks like we've reached our time for today. Thank you so much for a great discussion. And thanks to those for coming to the Chemical Collective to get your weekly dose of drug facts while dispelling Chemical Collective to get your weekly dose of drug facts while dispelling fiction.