Building Stacklist - The Intro

Summary

Kyle and Martina explore the journey of building a startup, emphasizing the importance of maintaining a startup mindset, focusing on user experience, and adapting to change. They discuss the challenges and triumphs of entrepreneurship, the value of candid conversations with team members, and the need to keep the end user at the forefront of their efforts. The dialogue is filled with insights, personal anecdotes, and a shared excitement for the future of their venture.

Takeaways

• The importance of an unpolished, authentic approach to podcasting.
• Maintaining a startup mindset is crucial for long-term success.
• User-centric focus is essential for innovation and growth.
• Adapting to user needs can lead to significant changes in business strategy.
• Candid conversations with the team can provide valuable insights.
• Navigating the startup landscape involves both challenges and triumphs.
• It's important to balance taking advice with staying true to your vision.
• The startup environment fosters a thrilling and dynamic work culture.
• Recording candid thoughts can help in reflecting on the journey.
• Future aspirations should include continuous improvement and user engagement.

Creators & Guests

Host

Kyle Hudson

Building @stacklist_app

Host

Martina

Co-founder and CTO - Stacklist

What is Building Stacklist?

The journey of an idea, a team, and building a company.

Kyle: 00:00

Think it could be good every now and then for you and I just to record, like, candid thoughts.

Martina: 00:07

Everybody has opinion, and sometimes it it gets to our heads.

Kyle: 00:10

So I guess for anybody listening, this might be what this podcast is about. It might just wanna listen. It might not be. Hi. Hey.

Martina: 00:27

Good morning.

Kyle: 00:28

Good morning. We gotta start with the coffee.

Martina: 00:34

Yeah. I bet.

Kyle: 00:35

You and I usually meet around this time, about 5 AM. Never mind.

Martina: 00:46

Okay. I still don't know how you can do it.

Kyle: 00:49

Yeah. Well, 8:8 AM bedtime helps. 8 AM. See, I'm even I'm broken. 8 PM.

Kyle: 01:03

So building stack list. Oh, I'm gonna yell on during this one.

Martina: 01:10

You need to cut the lock.

Kyle: 01:13

No. Leave in the yawns. This is this episode says yawns and all. Yeah. It's funny.

Kyle: 01:24

I interviewed for the 0 to podcast, I interviewed Danny, the CEO of Jan last night. And, and she brought up something that I totally forgot about. But there's this episode of, Gimlet Media. So I guess I have to look up when that was. It was maybe 2,000 10, 2012, but early in the sort of podcasting era, there was this, a podcast called startup.

Kyle: 02:01

And it it literally was somebody who left their job and was like, I'm gonna start a podcast. And he has a voice recorder and he takes it home and he sort of like has it near his wife. He's like, okay, I'm gonna start a podcast. And she's like, what what are you gonna do? Like, it was just very early, but it was so raw and authentic.

Kyle: 02:27

And and I remember that that sticking with me a lot. And and then he ended up building that podcast became highly, highly successful. And then he spun it off and basically set up a podcast media company and then started other podcasts under it. But it's so good to go back and hear that first one. But that one has always stuck with me and it did.

Kyle: 02:54

It stuck with Danny too, of just that idea of just sort of the super unpolished, like transparent look at starting something from scratch and trying to figure out along the way, what the heck is this thing?

Martina: 03:19

What am I doing? Yeah. Mhmm.

Kyle: 03:23

So I think that's, I think that's one one view that I'd love to have for this for this podcast is sort of the unpolished behind the scenes look at taking something that, was an idea and then starting to build it out. And even when it becomes a bit of a a bit of a formed thing and there are some people using it, it's still, like, it's still it's still so early. And so we don't we have no idea where this is gonna go. I don't know. What would you wanna get out of recording a podcast about the journey of doing a startup?

Martina: 04:09

Well, I don't know. Behind the scenes, I know what you mentioned, how at one point you are all excited and, okay. Yeah. We release 3 times a week and it's amazing. The next week is like, I don't know.

Martina: 04:21

We hit the roadblock. We are down downsizing. We don't have, that many team members. Then how we manage that? How we keep up the pace?

Martina: 04:31

Do we keep up the pace? Do we slow down? Do we explore some other stuff? You know, just around?

Kyle: 04:38

Why we should release 6 times a week? Why we should push

Martina: 04:44

on Friday? 2 times per day. 2 times per day. It shouldn't be as well.

Kyle: 04:48

So totally. Totally. No. You're right. I you know, we've gone through some of those, like, the flexing up and the down.

Kyle: 04:58

You know, we had we had more, and then we sort of constricted down to a bit of a tighter team. And then we kind of flex back up again a little bit, in certain areas. And but who knows week to week, you know, what it what it's gonna look like. But there's still something like, what is your what do you see in your mind? Excuse me.

Kyle: 05:25

What do you see in your mind as like the, what does it look like? Like, what does stack list look like 3 years from now?

Martina: 05:35

I'm visiting you in New York almost every month. So, you know, we are doing great.

Kyle: 05:40

Yeah. Exactly.

Martina: 05:42

Now I would say, you know, we we are polished. We have revenue. We have users, tons of users. We are getting better each week Still, you know, we are still keeping the pace, but with a much higher, team. Much much more people around us, much more, you know, how it gets when you grow a company, but to still keep the startup mindset and, you know, not let being able to make revenue to get into our head, and okay, now we are going to do something else.

Martina: 06:14

No. This mindset of a startup is really something that needs to be cherished, and, this time when we spend thinking about, okay, how we can make it better for our users, we should keep that forever.

Kyle: 06:29

No. Forever is is the key. I remember doing a project for a large scale hotel company, and it was a transformation where, basically, at the highest levels, they had sort of asked me and my team to figure out what the the future of staying at this this chain looked like. And it was funny early in the in the project, I remember going being at the sort of headquarters and interviewing so many executives, in the in the company, and everybody talked about what their division's goals were and what their division's targets were. And but it was also insular.

Kyle: 07:20

Like, not one person sort of mentioned the guest and what the guest how the guest would be feeling or how how the guest would be interacting with the company in a much better way or how the guest, how they were sort of hyper focused on the guest and how to make it better. It was all sort of inside this building. I have agreed upon this amount of money, and we have put these goals on a PowerPoint chart. And so we're gonna go do these goals, which we're all talking about internally, but everybody's so insular in the company that nobody was really focused on on the guest. And then I had that moment where I was also hyper aware of how Airbnb sort of came along, you know, and totally, like, forced their way in and said, hey.

Kyle: 08:19

Here's a totally new thing that nobody's thinking about is you can rent some space on a couch in a person's house. You know? And and at that time, that was crazy. Right? That was sort of like you know, I know, the early the early lore of you hear about people turning down investment of Airbnb because they're like, oh, this is so dangerous.

Kyle: 08:40

People are gonna get hurt, and and you don't even know who these people are. Why would they want guests, strangers in their house? And now I would say 50% of the time when I travel, I stay I stay in an Airbnb, and I don't stay at I stay at hotels way less than I used to. And I think that it's so key to keep in mind where one is how how hard it is sometimes to to create something new that people aren't sort of used to and and how you have to sort of force your way into the zeitgeist of of social and and of apps, but also how if you get complacent and you're just focused on internal culture, internal goals, the sort of matrix that you can create in a company where you're you're just focused on the corporate playbook or whatever, that you completely lose sight of the end user and what they need and what they want and how that's shifting and changing all the time. And so, yeah, I love that I love that thought about just forever trying to keep keep the end user in mind.

Kyle: 09:52

And that means but that also means that our company has to say so fluid that we can't ever get attached to how we know it's gonna be or how it is or that the corporate play or the the company playbook has been set in stone. And we probably don't wanna, like, mess that up. So we just, like, keep going the way that we're going because it's safe.

Martina: 10:15

Yeah. No. I agree. I mean, people are are always resilient on something new, and they don't want to try it. And you you just have to force it, you know, at one point.

Martina: 10:24

Like, okay. This is really awesome. Start using it. The same, you know, when early days in Facebook or Meta, when they did some huge UI UX updates, everyone was hating. Like, oh my god.

Martina: 10:36

Where did that button go? Where was this? Where is now that? And then in couple of days, everyone were, okay. It's it's awesome.

Martina: 10:42

I can use this.

Kyle: 10:44

Totally. That you know, the new thing, like, forcing something or creating something new. I remember when the iPad came out and there were all these memes of, like, oh, it's just a big iPhone. And there's, like, people sort of, like, holding up iPads to their heads, like, talking into the iPad being like, see, it's just a big iPhone. You know?

Kyle: 11:06

It's just an excuse for people to spend $1,000 on a on a big iPhone. But it's interesting once you get past that period of the initial people's reactions, and then it sort of moves into into everyday use, you think about now how how we use iPads in totally different ways, whether it's like taking notes or or watching movies on the go. Who would have thought that basically, like, watching movies and watching TVs, you would just be you would just be at an airport with headphones on watching this extremely flat television surface, like, that you just hold in your hand. And think about and kids too. You know, my my son does Duolingo now on his iPad, and he basically challenges other kids from all over the world in learning French on his iPad.

Kyle: 12:04

And, you know, and I always I always think back to those early periods where it's like we're making fun of iPads when they first come out. And then once that settles, people start to see how how you actually use it. And now it's like, imagine just getting rid of all the iPads.

Martina: 12:22

Yeah. Or impossible.

Kyle: 12:26

You can't do it now. So I love that. I love that. What, you know, one of the interesting things I think that I'd love to explore is we sort of I've thought about a few things, but I'd love your your take on this too, is sort of how we do. By the way, we're we're recording this first episode and we have not talked about the podcast structure or process more than about 5 minutes.

Kyle: 12:56

So we should talk about that on the first episode. But I was thinking it would be interesting to not only for us to have some some sort of candid conversations about building the business, but also, like, interviewing our team internally, maybe, about what it's like being in a super early stage company. And then also maybe find some customers, like some early customers who are willing to come on and kinda talk about what it's like finding Stacklist and then and then using it and and what their thought process is. And then maybe some partners, some, like, people that we work with, that sort of help help keep things moving and keep the engine going. I don't know.

Kyle: 13:44

What do you think?

Martina: 13:46

Yeah. I I think from those people, we would get some juicy stuff, to be honest. I think people usually have a lot of things to say and the way they use it and what would they like to see and how would they like to improve the product, but they don't often get the chance to speak up. So I think it would be really interesting to see how actually people are using it, and what are they using the most. You know?

Martina: 14:09

Yep. Is it is it sharing? Is it creating? Is it social aspect? What would they like to see that we have more of those?

Kyle: 14:17

Yeah. I think our team too, I'd be really interesting to hear, especially, you know, from Dushan and and Lazar and others who have who've been with us for a couple of months and sort of not just I mean, obviously, what we're building and the and the, like, specific areas that they're focused on and what they're building, but also just what they think day to day. Like, is it kinda crazy working for, like, the the early 6 month startup with no funding? You know? It's like, I don't know.

Kyle: 14:52

Just those sort of or or what someone working on the team, what their aspirations would be if we, you know, we get funding and and we and we grow into a bigger team and, you know, and things change a bit. I don't know what they would want from that journey.

Martina: 15:12

Yeah. Definitely. I mean, working in a startup is always is always thrilling, at least for me. The pace is awesome. You know, you don't have to have 5 to 10 approvals.

Martina: 15:22

Okay? You can do that. You can you can just do it, then that's it.

Kyle: 15:26

You literally don't have to have any approvals. I found something on production on the live site the other day, and I had no idea that that was going out. I was like, I I all of a sudden, I send a screenshot to Martina. I'm like, what is this? I just found this off the site.

Kyle: 15:44

Yes. I love that. I love that part of it too. I don't know. And and I think maybe I think it could be good every now and then for you and I just to record, like, candid thoughts.

Kyle: 16:01

I don't know. Just when when when we're about to discuss where things should go. You know what I mean? Like, and and recording that, in those moments where we're trying to figure things out, because hopefully that could be useful to someone else who's thinking about starting something up. And I've started doing a lot more recording myself.

Kyle: 16:25

So I bought the DJI Osmo 3, and it's it's one of the best. You can I mean, obviously, you can turn your iPhone at yourself and just start recording, But there's something about this little this little mini handheld selfie stick that it it feels like a little bit of a what was on, like, road rules and and and the real world, like the confessional booths, you know, where you sort of go in and you're like, I think Sally is just trying to stab me in the back or whatever? Like and everybody's just being real with this, like, confessional booth. But, like, there's something about the setup of this thing, and I leave an event or I'm I wake up in the morning, and I'm I'm having I've never had I've never had doubts about stackless, but you do have these sort of, like, confusing gray periods where you're sort of like, I don't know what the next step is. Or like, should I change something?

Kyle: 17:24

Or should I kind of bend a little bit for this investment money or whatever. And you're sort of like going through all these heads is in between events. I was doing this in San Francisco. It was like turning that thing on myself while I'm walking and just talking for a bit and being like, I don't know. Like, and so I feel like we could do that here, but together, and just in terms of asking those questions and trying to figure out what the heck, where the heck this thing's going.

Martina: 17:59

That was great. That came with a lot of inputs from a lot of people. Yeah. Everybody has opinion and sometimes it it gets to our heads. So it's it's normal.

Martina: 18:11

It's hard to not take it personally, especially when it's something that you're building and it's your idea. So Yeah.

Kyle: 18:20

It's tricky. It's a fine balance between taking advice from people who've been down similar roads, you know, and then also not wavering from whatever your your first, like, you know, vision of something was. And then as it starts getting uncovered, there are instances where you definitely have to adapt. And there are other instances where it's like you just stay the course and hold your breath and hope that was that's like, that's the right that's the right way to go. So I don't know.

Kyle: 18:55

I think that's I think that's it. I think more than I think more than sort of introducing how all this is definitely gonna go on the podcast. I think it's more sort of, like, introducing how it might go

Martina: 19:11

on the podcast.

Kyle: 19:15

So, yeah, I guess for anybody listening, this might be what this podcast is about.

Martina: 19:22

It might not be.

Kyle: 19:22

It might not be. So if you're, if you're interested in what we were just talking about, maybe tune in. Otherwise, you might also wanna tune in. I don't know. But, cool.

Kyle: 19:36

Well, yeah, I'm excited. I think there's a lot of different a lot of different topics and a lot of different areas to hit. And, I'm excited to hear also the first the first episode first real episode because this is a fake intro episode. The first real episode, with you interviewing Denzel on on what it's like to be a woman in in tech in leadership because it's definitely, there are definitely, you know, historical roots in in in it being a a male dominated industry. And so, you know, really interesting to hear, especially as the CTO of Stack List interviewing the CEO of of an AI startup that's been trying this for a couple of years, and I'm really interested to hear, you know, what you guys talk about.

Martina: 20:32

Yeah. Already have prepared some juicy questions. I can't raise this to hear the answers.

Kyle: 20:37

Nice. Nice. Totally. Yeah. And then I was thinking one of the other ones that we could do is I'm really interested to hear what what, Juan has to say from so Juan just joined.

Kyle: 20:53

He's only really been with us for a week and a half, but as a UI UX designer who's helping redesign the whole platform. And it's really interesting coming. He was coming off of a full time position as I as I understand it and sort of coming into the startup world where where as he jumps in and joins, we're all like, hey, I need a button. I need a menu. I need a thing.

Kyle: 21:20

You know? And it's like, wait. Wait. Wait. Wait.

Kyle: 21:21

Wait. Wait. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

Kyle: 21:23

We gotta we gotta get some we gotta get some structure here. I gotta also figure out what the heck where all the Figma boards are. So I think interesting to sort of learn right in those in those moments from team members who who still have not sort of been in the in the stackless world for too long and and what early fresh thoughts are of not only the platform and what we're building, but also just from the outside in, kind of how we seem could be interesting.

Martina: 21:56

Yeah. With with our entire setup, like, also with some suggestions, see if we can do something better to ease the person in much smoother and to have him or her start, you know, seamless. That's that's the point. Okay. Here it is.

Martina: 22:12

Here is everything, and let me know what you need. That's how I envision.

Kyle: 22:17

I think it's hard though because I think that sometimes, like, in the place that we're at, to have someone come on seamlessly also means that we need to we need to sort of spend time setting up all the processes and have all the boards clean and have sort of a bit of an instruction manual and have an onboarding. You know what I mean? Which also at times can feel like those are all the things that we have to get set like an established company. Because I know I've been I I go into companies. I've been I've I've been onboarded into companies before where they have it all set.

Kyle: 23:01

Right? And there's, like, there's an HR person who brings you in, and they're like, I'm setting up a number of meetings, and you're gonna meet all these different people. And we have this Notion workspace, and you can you can take a couple of days, and you can sort of, like, read through it and read of all of our company processes and, you know, and all those sort of things. And what's interesting is that from a startup perspective, we, you know, burn and overhead is is a is a very specific real thing every week. And so the more we've got people sort of working sometimes on processes and and documentation and those sort of things are also times that we're not spending either making the product better or getting a client.

Kyle: 23:45

And so there are times where we have to find people who are sort of okay jumping in and rummaging through our trash pile of a Figma boards and saying, like, I can figure it out, like no big deal or whatever. And and that's interesting. I think it's an interesting moment also where, you know, yeah, we try and make it as easy as possible, but also you're you're kind of vetting people's personality too in those processes. Like, do they come in and sort of need everything to be a certain way, or do they come in and they're like, look. I got it.

Kyle: 24:31

Just let me let me dig through all this. And what I will do is come up and out with an organized process, which is what Juan did by the way. It's like, basically, we've got these we totally start totally started a new project away from all of our other boards and started this very clean, like, here's the colors. Here's the fonts. Here's the, like and started from scratch, which is amazing.

Kyle: 24:54

So I don't know. It'll be really interesting to hear from somebody who has come into us really fresh.

Martina: 25:02

No. Definitely. The point in startup is that you you try to do that. You know, you try to have it organized. You try to have it at least to somewhat documentation and onboarding and everything, but then it's a start up, and you get pulled away on the different stuff.

Martina: 25:19

And, like, okay. I don't have time for this anymore. Let's go do something else.

Kyle: 25:23

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So Cool.

Martina: 25:27

But that's the closest point.

Kyle: 25:30

Yeah. I'm excited. And we should figure out how to and you gotta keep me honest with us too. Like, I think what would be really interesting is that you and I do these from time to time away from, like interviewing other people, but we just do these sort of, maybe this is our real world road rules confessional episodes. But we should just do these really impromptu.

Kyle: 25:57

Like, we should find times where you and I both are like, no, no, no. Wait. Hold on. Let's don't do it in Zoom. Let's do it in Riverside.

Kyle: 26:04

Like, let's hop in and just start recording and then and just talk. And I don't know. Maybe forget sometimes that we're even, like, recording anything and just digging into the guts of of what we're trying to build. At least if something else, it'll be super interesting for us to listen to years from

Martina: 26:27

now. To my future self.

Kyle: 26:30

To my future self. Yeah. This is what it was like when we were trying to figure things out. So fun. Alright.

Kyle: 26:38

Well, a very long, unstructured intro to a podcast. This has no structure, and we're and and we're not sure what it's gonna be, listener, so come along for the ride. Why is my Siri talking to me? Anyway It's one of the Well yes. Yes.

Kyle: 26:59

She's like, it's 528. What are you doing? Alright. Well, let's see where this thing goes.

Martina: 27:07

Yeah. Definitely. Can't wait to see.

Kyle: 27:10

Alright. That's it. I'm gonna do the proverbial mic drop. See you on the next episode.