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USDN Podcast is a cinematic indie comics interview series hosted by the USDN_Chairman and the Council of Nerds spotlighting the creators, storytellers, and worldbuilders shaping the future of independent comics.
Each episode dives beyond headlines into the real journeys behind the books from Kickstarter launches and creative struggles to the philosophies driving today’s indie storytelling movement.
This isn’t about rumors or recycled news.
It’s about the people creating the worlds.
Through in-depth conversations, creator spotlights, and crowdfunding discussions, USDN explores:
• The rise of indie comics
• The business of crowdfunding
• The art of worldbuilding
• The realities of independent storytelling
USDN is where indie comics come to life for the fans, by the creators, and powered by the community.
You are listening to the USDN on the
DFPN.
Thank you.
What is up everybody and welcome to the
United States Department of Nerds where we
are for the people, by the people,
and of the people.
Tonight's episode dives into a world where
missing person cases aren't just crimes.
There's something far more unsettling.
A hidden government branch paranormal
activity spreading across a fictional
American state.
In a story that blends horror, sci-fi,
crime,
dark comedy into one connected universe.
This is Ghostwood.
And joining me tonight is writer Zach
Zeman, correct?
Yes.
Who is building this weird fiction
universe from the ground up and bringing
it to readers right now.
The Council of Nerds is now in session.
Zach, welcome to the USDN.
Hey, thanks for having me on the show.
Oh, dude, I've been waiting for this one.
When you sent me the book to read,
I was just like, dude,
this is so fun.
But with that, Zach...
Why don't you give everybody like a quick
who you are and kind of like what
the premise of Ghostwood is.
Sure, sure.
So I am.
primarily actually like a screenwriter.
I work mainly in film.
I do a lot of like locations and
special effects work locations.
I know for a lot of people,
that's a confusing thing.
It's not just like finding places,
but it's,
it's kind of just like the it of
film sets where it's like logistical
problem solving.
But yeah,
No,
I'm primarily a screenwriter and this is
kind of, you know,
the manifestation of a lot of interior
ideas that I had that I felt could
never translate to film properly.
And so what Ghostwood kind of is besides
that is, you know,
it's a kitchen sink of these bizarre,
you know, sort of creatures.
And so it's a frameworked, giant,
fictionalized state where vigilantes are,
you know, completely legal.
and all these supernatural things are
running around,
and it follows kind of an X-Files branch
that tracks these things, you know,
case by case, while, you know,
a bigger picture starts to sort of form.
So were you always drawn to horror and
weird fiction or did this kind of just
evolve over time?
Uh, yeah, no, I definitely, um, you know,
I, I was a monster kid.
I grew up with like the universal
monsters.
Um,
like I was five years old watching
Frankenstein and Phantom of the Opera,
Wolfman and Creature.
Um,
If you look up on the shelves,
you can kind of see a couple of
them.
They're probably hard to tell on camera
right now.
Yeah,
I always loved the Universal Monsters
Tales from the Crypt comics.
I grew up reading from EC Comics.
I was obsessed with those, you know,
Haunt of Fear comics.
And I, you know,
watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer, X-Files,
stuff like that.
I've always been drawn to monsters.
So they were something to me, like,
in a setting like this,
they're not inherently what...
I find to be the horror element.
Monsters are like the comfort element to
me in this.
And I guess that it kind of becomes
apparent when you see where the actual
horror comes from when you read it.
Yeah, it was a really good read.
And I'm glad you brought up EC Comics
because they came back and made this huge
splash in comics,
I think in twenty twenty four again.
And I've been loving everything they've
been putting out.
Like, it's just been so good.
Their little horror anthologies they're
doing.
It's like,
these are so good because it's so
reminiscent of the earlier stuff from EC
Comics.
And, yeah,
those have been a lot of fun.
Especially that art style, too.
Yes.
It's just one of those things.
It's got such a distinctive...
feel to it i i don't know exactly
what it is other than like i don't
know like it is very nostalgic as well
to anytime you look at it you're like
i'm ten years old i have a flashlight
i'm in my bed you know looking at
the covers so when did the idea for
this book go from just being that an
idea into we're going to do this so
i i guess this was it was it's
funny i i think
It was around twenty eighteen.
I created a Google Doc where I was
just.
Loosely throwing a list of ideas of
different characters.
I had nothing,
nothing unified even for like a universe
or a world just.
This would be cool and something this
would be cool and something and eventually
that list was like.
four pages long and i was like okay
okay wait wait wait so then i had
to like kind of i looked at it
and i realized there was kind of a
running theme um between all of these and
i started to build out from there and
it wasn't until i think uh twenty twenty
three then that i finally um i had
known rj for a minute but i finally
reached out to him and was like hey
i was thinking of um
potentially writing a comic and would you
be interested um so then like you know
i i started to take what i did
and that was largely a world bible or
like a wiki and you can see some
of that being slowly transferred to the
the world and the wiki i have but
um
when I talked to him,
then I started developing like the actual
series Bible narrative or, or my, my,
you know, reference Bible,
not necessarily like for pitching or
whatever, but, um, so yeah, it was like,
I think roughly five years of developing
the story.
And then it took, you know,
another two years after that to start to
really get the story
honed in and structured out in a comic
format.
Yeah.
We'll talk about that here in a little
bit.
What exactly is the government branch and
how deep does it go?
Is it very X-Files-esque or is it like
X-Files and then another layer down into
it?
So, yeah, like,
I guess the distinction here is, like,
because in the X-Files,
that is specifically a department within
the FBI.
It's, you know,
those agents are relegated to the,
you know, the fuck-up section.
Yeah.
But with the IPC,
it's an entirely different, like,
organization or branch, right?
So it's like, you know, you know the...
the CIA, the FBI, the NSA,
but this is one the IPC is,
you don't know this exists.
It's one of those kind of like, okay,
what is that the IPC?
It's a name that maybe people have heard.
And it's also kind of one of those
three letter organizations that if someone
flashes a badge, people are gonna be like,
oh, okay,
it's someone from the government.
I'm not sure what that is.
So yeah, it's its own separate branch,
specifically created to monitor
metahumans.
But that was also like, you know,
kind of an umbrella purpose to also
monitor paranaturals as well.
I like it.
And for anybody out there wondering,
it is free right now on Global Comics.
Go read it.
It is such a fun read.
And honestly,
I'm so excited that we're really close to
getting part two or issue two to this.
Yep.
Also,
I'm trying to get in more stores in
Atlanta, but I've got limited prints.
So if you're in Atlanta, just kind of...
Keep an ear out, ask your stores,
and then some of those maybe will reach
out as well and ask me to get
them on the shelves.
But no, right now they're at Dr.
No's and Origin Story.
We're going to talk about that here in
a little bit too,
because it's really dope that y'all are
actually in a brick and mortar.
So why a fictional U.S.
state instead of a real world setting?
so a couple of things um i love
the diverse geography of the west coast
and i kind of wanted a story that
somehow encompassed all of that without
feeling like there were these separate um
dividing regions exactly like if you're in
California then you're in California then
you're in Washington like I wanted
something that felt like you were in all
of them and it was this more kind
of encompassed
space of strange stuff um and part of
that as well as i thought why not
play around with the history of that why
why have this fictional state what would
have ever been the reason and i started
to think of you know what would be
a a fun twist and in the world
of comics you know there there's always
Why?
Why are the world of comics?
And that is a big thing with this.
And a lot of this is me meditating
on that.
kind of you know how i've read comics
and understood them and sometimes there's
little bits of world building that i'm
like i wish there was an explanation for
blank yeah no i i know exactly what
you're saying because there's sometimes
you you pick up a comic and it's
the issue one and you would expect some
type of backstory or something just
context clues something that will kind of
unlock kind of
like a place or a thing and you
just don't get it right but no it's
really cool that you are actually going
back and you were just putting the bones
into that and the two states like
washington and california that is like two
completely separate vibes all together
Yeah, and I kind of wanted it to,
you know, it's one of those things, too,
to say, like,
it's not affecting this state, this state,
this state.
It's just, it's this state.
So it makes it, you know,
it's what if Twin Peaks was a state
kind of thing.
That's a good reference.
I like that one.
So, thanks.
One of my favorite shows ever.
Oh, dude, a hundred percent.
But, um...
So let's talk about issue one in the
missing persons case.
What makes this case different from a
typical crime story,
like law and order SVU, whatever,
whichever crime story or crime series you
want to think about?
Sure.
So it kind of, you know,
it does have that similar SVU human
trafficking set up and story there.
It gets pretty dark,
and Frank Hooper is a vile human being.
So he is kind of a red herring
in terms of what the actual missing person
element is,
but he definitely is the villain element
of this issue.
And that's what makes her case unique is
that her disappearance has nothing to do
with the actual crime that was taking
place.
Her disappearance is the only supernatural
thing that seems to have happened within
that circumstance.
And what makes it unique is just with
something so specific like this that isn't
a typical
What I like to do,
and you'll see this in further issues,
I like to have a lot of supernatural
elements that aren't anything in
particular.
they're kind of one of those things that
makes them a little more unknown,
more freaky for the reader in terms of
we can't necessarily explain what that is.
But this is a launching point specifically
because it is a case that is going
to... And as you can see,
it is not solved by the end of
this issue.
Yeah, that was actually... I'm normally...
I expect the cliffhanger on an issue one.
But you left us on the cliff.
Like, yeah.
The Sylvester Stallone cliffhanger movie
where he's hanging by the fingertips.
And I'm like, dude, come on.
And I really enjoy that kind of stuff.
But it was one of those where you
also kind of like at the end of
an SVU episode,
right where you get the bad guy.
And you're kind of like,
Yeah.
And it's like, yeah, no, exactly.
Like it's,
it's one of those things that there's no
resolution kind of to anything.
And, and that is,
I did kind of want to emphasize one
of those real world elements where a lot
of bad guys just are not caught.
And a lot of things just, it's like,
we simply don't know.
But with I would say with this case
in particular,
it does affect Roth in particular,
because this is, you know,
his first case with the IPC.
And he's introduced to it, you know,
largely as a preliminary.
Like, what's your take on this?
He is a detective for those wondering.
He's talking about a detective in the
story.
Yeah, so Agent Roth is now, like,
this is going to be Terrence Vigil,
who we kind of see most of issue
one through his lens.
He's the, I would say,
institutional viewpoint into things.
And Roth is more of our, like,
human story perspective of, like,
through his eyes is how things actually
start moving.
Yeah.
I like to think it's very similar to...
Vigil is like a mix of...
cecil from invincible and uh david lynch
himself kind of like in terms of like
i i don't i like a lot of
it completely straying from the world of
invincible obviously is this yeah but i'm
saying in terms of like his government
role to the main character just scum and
villainy yes but but like you know he's
david lynch so he's got this like
bizarre spiritual warmth to him in a
perspective yes sometimes like strange but
then you know very wise when you think
about it in a way um just an
odd mashup yeah yeah exactly but no so
yeah i would say with this case roth
you know keeps coming back to it
He wasn't going to...
He didn't want to just have this be
something that he was tested on.
He wants to try and solve what's going
on with this case.
So how does the paranormal element
escalate the stakes within the story?
Sure.
So it's one of these things where it's
a world of...
you've got metahumans and vigilantes who
are just people masquerading as
vigilantes.
So you have this one kind of established
threat through urban areas,
through highly populated areas.
And when the supernatural starts to
actually become an infrastructural
problem,
uh it's kind of showing how this world
has to shape and accommodate and and sort
of restructure not just its vigilante laws
in the way that the public views that
but it's starting to get to a point
that the public has to accept that these
are a present element as well yeah
um and and so these are a lot
of things that these cases are unsolved
because of you know even institutes of the
government saying that's bull that's what
is that that's a bunch of baloney like
we're ignoring that so then it just gets
thrown into a cold case file so without
spoilers what's the vibe readers should
expect
um the vibe they should expect i would
say uh it's it's pulpy but kind of
not in a um
It's pulpy and what RJ and I like
to talk about is like a nineties kind
of way.
We've gone very heavy into a nineties
style with a lot of vibrant portrayals of
things.
Even like the dark elements are just very
toony.
We both grew up watching some similar
stuff.
You can kind of see it in some
of this art,
but we're both big fans of the Jackie
Chan Adventures cartoon.
Oh, dude, that was so fun.
Yeah, there's a couple, like,
times where it's, like,
you can see some influence in there,
and when he, like, threw out a couple,
like, original concepts, I was like,
oh my god,
do you know who that looks like?
And we were then, you know, but, no,
I would say, I'm sorry, I totally, like,
blanked.
Yeah.
What vibe can readers expect?
Yeah, no, no, the vibe.
So the vibe is, it's pulpy.
It's strange.
I like to make it feel like you're
kind of watching a nineties cartoon,
a nineties comic.
There is a lot of dark comedy though.
It's not when we,
when I'm talking about disturbing human
elements, it is not just like,
A lot of horror comics I know are
just... Some of them can be brutal.
Yeah.
And when I say relentless in terms of,
like, this...
Every time you're getting a piece of
information,
it's either surreal or it's...
It's you're trying to wrap your head
around it or it's it is super violent
or it is grotesque.
It is some sort of disturbing crime,
but it's not all of these things at
once at the same time.
It's sometimes one of them one by one,
but it's almost page by page.
There's there's something like that.
And it's a it's a big mishmash of
a lot of these things that I've been
talking about, things I love.
So, yeah, it's a pulpy, dark comedy,
relentless, supernatural mystery.
And even though there are superheroes in
here,
I would not throw that into its genre
category.
They're more of a world-building element.
yeah so i was going to ask if
this is more psychological horror or just
supernatural chaos and this definitely
just leans more on supernatural chaos
which yeah i'm i'm here for because like
i said it's free right now it's down
in the description of the video go give
it a read you'll you'll have a lot
of fun reading it because it's just such
a fun story to read
But so right now,
how deep does Ghost Woods universe go
right now?
Oh, I mean, pretty deep.
There's a lot I've got.
You know, when I was talking about that,
that doc, my reference,
it's it's pretty big.
Yeah.
But like,
I'm taking it just issue by issue.
And I know that like, you know,
size can be daunting and sometimes sound
ambitious,
but this is something I'm not typically
I'm not doing Kickstarters for.
I'm just finding every issue with,
you know, pieces of my paycheck that,
you know, I'm throwing out there.
I'm doing this because I want to get
the story out of my head.
And a lot of this is, you know,
an evolving
series of building a bigger and bigger
picture uh that's i'm a big fan of
that kind of monster of the week yeah
okay that was actually my next question is
will there be multiple story lines within
the book like i know in issue one
there's like a hundred percent just tip
hanging off the edge of the cliff
cliffhanger now will issue two pick up and
there be a new case to solve
So I guess, yeah,
that's something people who aren't going
to hear me say this and this right
now, they'll be a little taken aback.
Issue two is going to pick up from
a completely new perspective,
and it will be the next agent recruited
in the IPC.
And so that will be from her perspective,
and it will be a bit more unconventional.
It won't be like,
a vigil saying here, come here,
look at this issue.
I want you to or look at this
case, you know,
and I want you to tell me what
you think.
It's going to be something different,
a more hands on.
Not necessarily professional within the
government investigation.
So with that being said,
with issue one being one detective,
issue two being another detective,
what's the long term vision look like for
that?
Like when you get to issue three,
will things come together or will it be
like an issue five and then you see
things come together more?
No, so it'll be issue five.
The first four issues are the first four,
because this is an ensemble story.
Okay.
So it's going to, you know,
kind of follow the whole team,
but we have to introduce each member of
the team,
and they kind of all get their own
personal issue that also...
gives the reader the sense of kind of
the rhythm and the story of the week
structure of ghost okay um but by issue
five we're gonna start to see a lot
of these threads within the first four
issues that are placed individually for
characters and then for the world um
they're all gonna kind of start to
converge some threads are going to be
revealed as nothing red herrings disappear
they just
you know kind of story of the week
things or background flavor of the thing
uh because a big thing in this sometimes
in the background you'll have uh an
element or there will be a page with
a character on it that will come back
that is a thread being set up other
times and this is something that i have
been very specific with rj i just love
reading comics and sometimes seeing
some of these characters that are never,
ever mentioned on the page.
But sometimes they're even recurring too.
And I'm like,
I love just the little detail that design,
their world building, their presence.
So some of them are kind of like
that,
where it's just background character of
the week.
You know what I really like about that
type of stuff?
And something I really like about,
like some comic books will do this,
is you'll have like a random character
page
Where it's just a character on the page.
You see them from the different angles.
It's like, oh, this is their height.
This is this.
This is that.
Their favorite snack is this.
It's just like a random page,
like either toward the front.
Yeah,
you get like this dossier of the
character.
And then you may not see the character,
but in the background.
or they're just like this random like
there's a something going on in front but
that character is like back here just
chilling you know what i'm saying no i
i i've totally seen that before where it
gives the whole all their information then
they're just the cashier in the store that
the main character is walking through yeah
he buys his milk from the person
Right.
No, I love little things like that.
But for you, though,
that would be like really cool.
Like it doesn't have to be when you're
like your primary like ghost goblin
monsters.
It could just be like you could just
make one up for an issue and just
have this random monster dossier.
And then people are just going to be
expecting it to come back and it just
never comes back.
Yeah.
All right.
Pops up in the background of something
else, you know.
yeah no and that's definitely going to be
that that is one of the kind of
visual and narrative presences or it's
it's a narrative story element throughout
ghostwood to have uh little characters and
moments like that um i will say though
like if there's
Don't get me wrong,
there are some characters and I would say
in this first issue here,
I'm just flipping through the pages and.
Sure, for human characters, but.
Pretty much every supernatural element you
see will come back,
at least in the first issue.
Those are establishing some story threads
or at least some recurring characters.
And that is the thing.
I don't want anyone to feel...
particularly overwhelmed because there's a
lot of characters in this.
Yeah.
Um, but, but that, that is, uh,
the story of the week element.
A lot of these people are not going
to be people you're going to need to
remember their names.
Yeah.
Uh,
you're not going to need to remember the
building they live in or anything like
that.
Uh, it's, it's just little story beats.
So, uh,
So I know you have this monster element
within this world, obviously.
I mean,
I use the Ghostwood logo with the monsters
and the ghosts around it because I thought
that was just a cool thing to have.
Yeah.
So will any of these monsters or ghouls
or goblins,
whatever you want to refer to them as,
because they're all very well drawn,
very well designed.
Paranaturals, there we go.
Will any of those play a part of
the story?
Kind of like it pops up and it's
like, hey, detective,
you may want to look in that direction
of this.
Like, not a guide necessarily, but like...
Yeah, he's a para-supernatural,
but he's also very helpful.
He pops up sometimes and he's like, hey,
there's this one bad ghoul over here that
you might want to look into.
That's his M.O.
there.
So there's definitely,
I guess it depends on what flavor of
para-natural.
I have a couple kind of variants of
that.
Obviously,
there's a demon crime underworld.
Uh, so like, you know,
very similar to if you see in a
lot of monster of the week shows,
sometimes there's a monster crime ring
kind of thing.
Yeah.
Grim.
Grim's a perfect example.
And it was in Seattle.
It took place in Seattle,
which is perfect.
Yes, exactly.
So there's stuff like that with demon
crime informants, uh, like, you know,
okay.
measly demon characters there's stuff like
that um we've got you know vigilantes that
are actually paranaturals um who are
deciding to kind of live out in the
open as a vigilante and actively trying to
help people um then you've got kind of
mystery characters people or not
necessarily people things that are third
party players and it's not clear what
their motivation is um it's not you know
that they'll be helpful sometimes other
times they'll be completely obfuscating
something or or they'll be just absolutely
thwarting the entire plan yeah um
And then there's sometimes just characters
whose goals align.
But I'll say not every Paranatural is
evil.
A lot of them actually are not bad
at all.
Yeah, I like that concept.
Jackie Chan's adventures, remember?
There were some that were kind of like
very chill and very like, hey,
how about I help you?
And then you just save me for last,
right?
Yeah.
Yes, exactly.
And there's a lot of that as well
in Buffy.
There's a lot of demons in that who
are just...
completely good they just look scary uh
and that's that's something i like to have
and it will be present throughout a lot
of ghostwood is that sometimes the biggest
threat or the most evil is coming from
a human element or a human presence um
it's always the humans man like nightbreed
is a big uh influence i love night
so same yeah such a greatly told story
it criminally underrated in my opinion for
it to be so good absolutely i'm gonna
have to watch that now yeah no i
just got the um ultimate cabal cut so
oh nice yeah i haven't seen that because
it's like i think it's almost i think
it's over two hundred minutes long so i
don't even know what is in there i
think that i saw was like a hundred
and fifty minutes
I think I've seen the one that's one
hundred and fifty,
but two hundred minutes.
I might have to.
Where'd you find that at?
I think it's I found a copy on
eBay or something.
They're up there every now and then.
OK,
I have to set myself one of those
bucks.
I have to set myself an alert for
it or something because I kind of want
to see that now.
Yeah, again, I don't know what's on it.
Practical effects, though, at its finest,
at its peak.
The quills on the guy's head.
Yeah.
Or in Shuna Sassy and her porcupine.
Yes.
Yeah.
And the way they just function and work,
and they do what they're supposed to do,
and it's all a hundred percent practical
effects.
And I love to see that even now,
today,
You're seeing a lot more practical effects
being used versus CGI and other stuff.
It's just something about practical
effects.
It just meets everything so beautiful.
I love them because it makes it feel
kinetic.
It's tactile and real for the actors,
for the viewer.
Practical effects, special effects,
and just
Creature design and puppets and things
like that.
Alien Earth.
Perfect example of a recent one.
Predator Badlands.
Another just really great example of just
really well done.
Practical effects.
You know, right now in modern times,
not everything has to be CGI.
Stick the dude in the suit and let
it roll.
Right.
And what I think why it works is
because it's kind of visually
physicalizing the imagination.
It's like you're actually...
making an idea here like you can imagine
something that does not exist and now it
does yeah because of that and you've given
it life on screen and it yeah i
i just i love anything from that era
of of i mean if you look again
like all these figures oh yeah
Yeah.
So that's, that's just like,
I've been a big, you know,
special effects guy.
And that was what got me largely into
monsters was just like, how,
how do you make a monster?
It's awesome.
And the evolution of that has been really
cool as well.
And it's not just here.
Like people like tunnel vision, right?
There's a company in South Korea that has
a,
It was started by a couple of dudes
who they started just making movie props
like dead bodies.
But they made them so ultra realistic that
people were like,
hey –
can you do that for us too?
You know,
because the bodies look like even the down
to the bones and the meat and the
guts, like everything just looks so real.
And people were like, how, like,
are they using real bodies?
No, they're just that damn good.
And it's just a couple,
it's just a couple of dudes in Korea
making, you know,
slabs of meat on a table for,
you know,
horror movies and stuff like that.
That's awesome.
That's like the better, happy version of,
I don't know if you know,
the guinea pig.
Flowers of Flesh and Blood controversy,
like with Charlie Sheen thinking it was a
snuff film.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, these guys are good.
I mean,
they are really good at what they do.
The bones, like if you break the bones,
you get that.
They put like a breaking... Yeah,
they are like really good.
So...
So before we got started, we were talking.
And I was like, because unfortunately,
RJ wasn't able to join us tonight.
He has family stuff come up.
And as always,
that should always take priority.
But I was going to ask y'all about,
were there some moments within the story
that kind of changed because of the art
that RJ had produced?
Or did RJ come back and say, hey,
I like what you're doing here,
but if we do this within the art
of it and maybe tweak the story here,
we're going to get something better out of
it.
Yeah, I mean,
I would definitely say for sure in a
lot of ways.
Again,
when I wrote the script for the first
issue,
get my first comic script.
I know there's not a particular locked
format for writing a comic script.
It's really not.
You just kind of wing it.
Every artist wants something different,
right?
Yeah.
And that's what I was asking RJ.
I'm like, is this legible?
Does you understand what I'm asking for
here?
And a lot of he's like, oh, no,
no.
Like this is he's like,
you write it like it's a movie.
I'm like, yeah.
End of the day.
a comic script should read like a movie
script down to the elements right yeah is
it raining is it sunny what does the
town look like what does it smell like
that way the artist can then visually make
that come to life because in theory the
the art should tell the story and the
words just amplify that story to the next
level
in theory right yeah and there's some that
don't work that way but technically that's
how it should work you should you could
be able to pick up a comic book
and peach momoko's visions is a perfect
example of this there's not a single word
in the entire book it's just her beautiful
artwork and it tells the entire story and
you can follow it panel by panel by
panel and it tells this wonderful star
wars story
So in theory, that's how it should work,
right?
It is a visual medium, first and foremost,
right.
No, that's definitely something that I...
was writing it like,
and then seeing RJ's art,
he was providing elements that I hadn't
considered to tell the story.
And so then I would, you know,
go back and revise it in a new
draft.
Oh,
I can include this kind of thing here.
I didn't consider that.
Like, for example,
if you look here on this page with
the
With the bunnies, the Hare brothers.
This guy, this was a little pop out.
RJ threw this out here in a sketch
and was like,
what do you think about putting a little
pop out here?
And I'm like, oh my God.
Yeah.
No,
like forget everything I wrote on the
page.
Like let's restructure everything to fit
that.
And there's really like comic books have
evolved so much over the last.
Ten, fifteen,
twenty years and they continue to evolve.
Right.
People no longer worry about the gutters
or stuff like that.
The whole page is available for you now
to do whatever you want with it.
Because again,
it's evolving to that point where a lot
of this goes back to image in the
nineties to where the whole page is there.
Why not use it?
Right.
Yeah, no,
and image is visually a huge influence on
what we're trying to do here, for sure.
And I know before we went live,
we were talking about Spawn,
and Spawn to me is one of those
where I can remember they literally was
like,
because I was used to the older DC
and Marvel where you still had the nice
white outline around each page.
Each panel was,
you could tell exactly what it was.
But now you don't have to do that.
Like, yes,
that's the very traditional way of telling
the story in a comic book.
But honestly,
it's kind of boring when you see it
now.
Yeah, I totally like that,
especially when you're feeling a story.
And you're reading something and if
something happens to a character you care
about or something lands in that story
that you're like, oh my gosh.
And just having that element that breaks
that mold makes it...
stand out it really does drive that moment
home as opposed to just as you said
like yeah you have that single panel and
then you gotta fit everything you want to
inside that panel right now you can just
blast it completely out and really hit
that home and um that's what i love
about modern comic books is the handcuffs
aren't there anymore you're free to tell
the story and to use the pages of
a book the way you want to
So shout out to those guys for really
just taking traditional storytelling and
just tossing that shit out of the window.
So, but between you and RJ,
how collaborative has the process been?
I know you're working on issue two right
now, but as far as like,
as he's right, drawing your story,
does he ever just like come back and
go, Hey dude,
I know what you're doing here,
but let's tweak that.
And I think we can bring it to
that next level, you know, like just how,
how is that like collaboration between
y'all?
Sure.
So I guess there's been a couple things,
one for characters and then one for trying
to visually sell a certain moment.
Like I'll,
Talk more about the selling a moment
first,
because it has kind of a couple examples
in the first issue where, you know,
I wasn't sure that there were a couple
times that I wrote a splash page or
I said potential splash page moment.
Like I gave him.
two or three options uh because i wasn't
sure i'm like this is a cool beat
maybe here because kind of i wanted to
stick to a rhythm of like one to
two an issue max yeah but but i
i wanted to play around with where that
could be when that could be and uh
he you know obviously picked the two that
he felt were the best throughout the
script um but then there were a couple
times that
I was over-embellishing the details for
moments in panels that were not relevant.
Like, you know,
beats or elements of the story that I
was just kind of breaking down the motion
too much.
Okay, yeah.
And he came back to me and was
like, hey, man, like, if you want that,
that's gonna add, like,
five pages from this like three page
sequence alone i'm like okay okay okay so
like you know then we had to take
a step back and he was like look
here's what i'm thinking and he threw back
a couple sketches where he took what was
going to end up being like a six
page thing and he's like here's three
pages
that surmises everything still in the
script.
No missing texts, no missing...
It's just where he's taking motions
that... And RJ's really great at this.
He'll...
have like a panel that you write and
then if you write you know a to
c he immediately knows what b is supposed
to look like and does yeah instead to
bring those two together okay that's
really cool and i know every artist is
different that's why i always like ask
that question
Because I know some artists who they want
the fine details all the way down there.
And I know some who just like give
me the story and I'll make it happen.
You know,
like I don't need to like get like
set the scene.
But that's all I need.
Right.
Like if you tell me that it's going
to be in a park,
I know what a park looks like.
You don't need to describe me a park
list or something particular about that
park that you want and then tell me.
But otherwise, just let me cook, right?
And that's what I like is when an
artist just goes, hey,
just set the scene and then let me
cook.
If there's something that we need to
tweak, we can tweak.
And for me, that just works, right?
That's been largely –
There's a lot of things in here.
Some of them are very specific from me.
And then a lot of those were RJ
just filling it in with so many little
details and giving it just so much flavor
and texture with those things.
Occasionally, though,
when I would see some of those,
it would then make me be like, oh,
oh, that's a great idea.
let's do that here as well or like
let's make that be a present thing or
like i like this idea of this being
a recurring background billboard company
you know like we would bounce i like
those little details like that and i think
they're severely overlooked in a lot of
comic books because they're fun little
elements that you can play with and
there's no rules
to them, right?
So you can literally just make a whatever
the hell you want and slap on a
billboard anywhere in a comic book because
why not, right?
And that's like, I think to me,
the most fun I've had with writing comics
is that type of thing where there are
no rules.
You can just,
you can really kind of go nuts with
it.
And then sometimes it's funny to think
like, okay,
if you're going nuts with those background
details,
that can influence later story ideas
because you're like,
you're going nuts with that.
If this is something that just is always
in the background,
how would that affect the world these
people are living in?
And is that ever going to become an
element that would actually make a story
from it just because of its presence?
I totally, yeah, that is probably...
It's like you live in the South,
so you know exactly what I'm about to
say.
It's like driving through the South and
seeing an Alexander Shinora sign,
billboard.
Injury in a wreck?
Call Alexander Shinora.
And he's laughing because he knows exactly
what I'm talking about.
It doesn't matter.
As long as you're in the South,
you've seen one of those billboards.
Yeah.
No, for sure.
It is.
I forget.
I think it's right outside of Savannah.
He's got billboards all over Savannah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's local to there, but yeah.
There's an alligator farm down there, too,
where it feels like there's a sign on
every corner down there as well.
Yes.
It's the local flavor, I guess.
Yes,
it is the best way to establish local
flavor in a comic book as well.
I mean, it translates both ways,
and they're so fun to play with.
And I love when you see...
especially image does a really good job of
this like well there's books within own
images label and they do really good job
of just like just the random signs it
relates to the book but it's just like
a random sign like if they're driving
through the desert or something there's
just like this random billboard and you're
like the hell is like okay whatever and
then you get a few pages over and
it like that sign makes perfect sense now
right
So,
but let's talk about the local comic
scene.
You're based out of Atlanta.
Yes.
And how is the local comic scene there?
I mean,
I've been to Atlanta like hundreds of
times, I feel like, but I've never like,
onto a local comic shop there,
which is weird.
I normally,
that's like one of my first things I
try to do when I go to a
city is visit the comic shops and stuff
like that.
But Atlanta is just one of those cities
where it's such a massive place.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You just kind of want to go to
where you need to go and then get
back in your car and get the hell
out of there.
yes exactly uh no um so i am
actually like that's that's a big reason
again why um i was happy to to
come on the podcast and um i'm trying
to put myself out there more and and
you know get in touch with these shops
because i'm unfamiliar with this scene uh
by and large myself um i got into
the comic scene largely in new york when
i went to school
They got some really nice doors.
With them walking distance of New York
City, I think there's... Well,
it's really weird, right?
You would think it's New York City.
You feel like there should be one on
every other corner, but there's not.
There's Golden Apple,
and then there's Golden Apple No.
Two further down the road.
I think there's one or two more,
but they're hit and miss.
They're usually upstairs
And the stairs are sketchy as fuck,
by the way.
Just like the people hanging out in front
of them is just sketchy.
Because the entranceway is on an alley and
you're like,
I don't want to go down that alley.
No, no, for sure.
Sometimes those are the best ones, though.
I mean,
I still went because obviously this place
is like the place.
It has celebrity sign-ins.
It's like this huge ordeal within the
comic scene in New York.
Yeah.
And so you're going to go because you
have to see it, right?
No, for sure.
I have been in too many places like
that for weird VHS tapes or comics or
I'm looking for a vinyl that is... Yeah.
It's not...
I'm not looking for like the Rolling
Stones bargain bin stuff.
You know, so...
i i know exactly what you're talking about
um but yeah i guess with the but
the comic scene down here from what i
can say is the stores that i have
been into and and you know gotten
ghostwood actually on the shelves um the
people here have been very very nice um
yeah they're very very excited to have um
local artists and local writers get their
stuff there.
They usually have a whole featured
section.
So that's really cool because a lot of
places don't do that.
I know.
And that was my concern as well,
because I've been to a lot of stores
that feel more commercial or like a
traditional kind of, you know,
franchised bookstore.
Or the comic books take the backseat to
like the card games and Dungeons and
Dragons and Pathfinder and stuff like
that.
Yeah, no, for sure.
And that's something I saw what was kind
of nice in Dr. No's.
Hey, give them guys a shout out, man,
for letting local guys put their butts in
the store.
Because I know there's a lot of guys
based out of Atlanta.
Yeah,
Doctor Knows and Origin Story Comics.
Those are two great shops.
The people there are nice.
And Doctor Knows, like they have,
you know,
they've got all their games and cards and
stuff,
but it's on a whole separate side of
the store and their counter is kind of
like this big little pod in the middle
that divides comic side with, you know,
games.
So it's like nothing ever feels like it's
overtaking one or the other.
That's really cool.
Yeah, great, great store.
Right, like by...
off of um i think canton road like
right yeah yeah canton road like uh right
by um
outside of Woodstock, I think.
Um, and then origin story, uh,
that is out,
I believe closer to like Norcross, uh,
or Tucker somewhere out there.
Um, that was kind of a gamble.
I just kind of typed in a comic
shop and I went in there and the
people there are awesome.
Like it's, it's a smaller little shop.
It's just comics, but, um,
know i they've they've got a lot of
independent stuff and uh it's in oh it's
in decatur um yeah origin okay yeah yeah
there's a restaurant there and it's um
it's like a soul food barbecue restaurant
there indicator i can't remember the name
of it but i just remember the food
just being like so good and i stopped
there because it's i smelled it before i
seen it
Yeah, no, no.
Some of the best food in Atlanta is
like in Decatur.
Yeah.
Around that area.
So that checks out.
Yeah, dude,
I just remembered we were going through
there and I smelled something.
It just smelled like I'm like,
I don't know what restaurant that is,
but it smells amazing.
And then we were probably a little ways
outside of the city.
And then it hit me again.
I was like, we're close to this place.
I know we are.
And then I seen a smoke stack out
in the, you know,
up the road I'm like I bet that's
it we got up to it I was
like yeah that's it we gotta stop here
we have to right yeah like you have
to because like I smelled it like five
miles down the road you're practically
like if you're a cartoon you would be
like
Oh, a hundred percent like Bud's bunny,
you know, it was like,
but it was just so good.
And we had already eaten, you know,
but I was just like,
we can get it to go.
I don't care,
but we have to take some food home
from here.
So why release some global comics for
free?
Uh, so, largely,
I think it's something like this,
and I am just apprehensive breaking into
this scene about comics and indie comic
writing.
Um...
I wanted to kind of just get my
story out there.
I wanted people to be able to read
this.
I wanted to try and connect with as
many people as possible with this,
trying to find its audience.
So I thought, you know,
Global Comics is pretty popular.
Yeah, no,
they're one of the bigger ones out there.
Yeah, I thought it's a solid platform to,
you know, have this very first issue just,
like, available completely free.
No, and that's really cool.
Yeah.
No, sorry, I'm rambling.
No, you're good, dude.
I was just saying, I'm like,
that's really cool to do because a lot
of people won't do that,
especially for free.
So, but that, like I said earlier,
if you go down to the description,
you will get the link to that.
That way, if you want to read it,
you can read it as well.
But... No,
I think it is something I just wanted
to put it out for free to get...
You know people to to think like.
this is something that you can read uh
this is something that maybe you can
connect with and it's largely what i'm
trying to at least signal to some people
with that is that i'm not doing this
so like i'm not i'm not trying to
make my career off of this because i
i already i try and you know work
uh and other things this is like i'm
doing this for the love of it and
and i want um
I want to keep doing it until the
story is done.
And so that's one of those things that
I'm trying to signal with that first free
issue.
No, it's really cool,
and I always appreciate that kind of stuff
myself.
I mean,
even though you did send it to me,
but just knowing that anybody who may be
scrolling the app can come across this and
read the entire thing for free.
So to me,
that's stand-up stuff right there.
You know what I'm saying?
Or for that kid who...
may not have the kind of money to
go out and purchase a comic book.
He can go to the app and read
stuff like Ghostwood for free.
Or she.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, exactly.
Exactly.
And for the people who can't like,
you know,
they can't afford a gold subscription on
Global Comics,
so they don't get that free with gold
feature.
So it's that was something that I kind
of deliberated on when I was seeing that
and I was like, oh,
it's there's a certain limit there.
No,
I totally I grew up with free comics
from my cousin, you know,
giving me hand me down like Fantastic
Four's.
or Uncanny X-Men.
I still have that volume he gave me
somewhere on a shelf.
It's completely peeling apart.
I read it ad nauseum.
But I wouldn't have been able to have
gotten into comics if it weren't for the
generosity of somebody giving me a free
comic.
I remember my grandpa gave me a couple
of the...
What is it, the Boris Karloff comic?
You know,
it's the Tales from the Crypt-esque,
but not.
Was that Golden Key?
What was that?
I don't remember the name of it,
but I remember Boris Karloff being on the
cover of those.
Yeah,
I'm trying to remember what those were
called.
Anyway, but yeah, things like that, again,
but...
question aside but like it was just i
think that is something that with stories
like comics or or just literature in
general and media that uh kind of can
open the world of imagination and kind of
this creative world building to somebody
especially like the kids i think
Having that stuff accessible is awesome,
but I would definitely say Ghostwood is
not for kids.
I want to preface that.
Teenagers.
Okay.
I definitely want to say if you're twelve
years old,
your parent might get mad if you're
reading this.
It doesn't mean you might not understand
it.
It just means your parents might get mad.
Yeah.
But dude, what's next after issue one?
When can people start looking for issue
two of this?
Sure.
So in the meantime,
now that we're going with this print issue
and trying to put it in a couple
of Atlanta shops, in the meantime,
RJ's working on the
pages for issue two,
which is much shorter,
so it's not going to take as long.
Issue one had a lot on the front
end in terms of setting up the world.
Now we don't need to do that at
the beginning of issue two.
So it's kind of
that was another reason I think it took
me so long just getting into this was
like trying to figure out how do I
start with this massive world in my head.
But now that I've kind of got the
ball rolling and I'm,
I'm very confident where issue two is
going.
I'm just finishing up like the tweaks on
the last couple of pages.
And then it's just a matter of,
you know,
me being able to get enough money to,
finish the rest of it uh and get
it out there um but we we are
aiming for hopefully by you know end of
may i'm i'm thinking is the most okay
so that's not too far away yeah it's
it's not um and i know on global
comics we are listed as bi-monthly um
that's like the ideal goal once we can
kind of get the ball rolling a bit
more um
that film work has been very dry here
in Atlanta.
So it is kind of hit and miss
and then trying to make the bills.
But yeah,
issue two is definitely coming up very
quick.
And it's gonna be a different type of
supernatural,
a little more visceral in terms of like,
This is going to feel more like an
episode of a horror show that you have
seen, if that makes sense.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
So it's going to be a very self-contained
story, as most of these issues will be.
And I don't know.
I'm excited for that because the main
character in that issue is one of my
favorite characters.
The whole thing is Jasmine Stokes.
She's a former art thief.
And yeah, she's cool.
Like she's just yeah,
I don't want to say too much.
I'll just I'll just leave it at that.
Yeah, no, don't spoil too much for people.
But let's see some rapid fire questions
real quick and then we'll sign it out.
All right.
So favorite horror influence.
Favorite horror influence.
Probably going to be a really mishmash
between Joe Dante, Stuart Gordon,
or Clive Barker.
Three good ones.
Favorite fiction creator.
Favorite fiction creator overall.
Wow.
Jim Henson.
Ooh, that's a good one.
I haven't heard that one before,
but that's a really good one.
One word to describe Ghostwood.
This isn't exactly going to,
this might throw some people,
but I guess they read a bit more
wacky.
I like it.
Dream crossover, any universe?
Big Trouble, Little China with Evil Dead.
Ooh, good one.
So we've already talked a lot about where
people can read Ghostwood at for free,
y'all.
Global Comics.
But where can they find you and RJ,
Zach?
Sure.
You can find me on Instagram.
And RJ, he's a bit more elusive.
He's kind of like a cat in that
nature.
He likes to...
hide on a couple things but he does
have an instagram page you can reach out
to him on there for um commissions and
see a couple of his uh things that
he does outside of just um comics uh
he's also really great sculptor and he
does film stuff as well um but uh
yeah so you can reach out to us
there um we both have a couple different
websites here and there scattered around a
great
Great way you can also get in touch
or if you want to talk in general
about Ghostwood or ask questions about
specific elements or characters is our
World Anvil page.
That wiki is something where if you've got
a question about, you're reading this,
you're like,
I've got a question about Eric.
He's got his own page.
You can leave a comment on there.
And I see them when they're posted.
And I will absolutely respond to those.
Obviously, there's something.
I know before you said that page wasn't
up and running yet.
Is the page up and running?
It is up and running.
There's just a couple articles that are
stubs that need to be expounded on.
But yeah, it's absolutely up and running.
And we're always trying to make the UI
on there a more pleasurable experience.
It's kind of...
coming and going with you know how we're
trying to get it all together but like
yeah uh it's one of those things like
if if people find that hey i can't
read this on my phone too well well
then i'll go on there and i'll try
and make it work
but uh you know we're we're trying to
have that as a space where you can
talk about the comic you can talk to
us specifically you can talk about the art
um there's there's spaces for that and
there will be more created spaces and
options you know as the issues uh are
released and we start to um put more
stuff out on our patreon where that's
where we'll have like um
some work in progress sketches or a couple
yeah what's the patreon oh the patreon is
ghostwood comic um perfect so you can just
yeah you'll find it right there uh and
that's gonna have stuff like um if you
look at in ghostwood issue one there's
like a mad scientist type character um and
He does come back.
As I said,
a lot of these people are threads that
were put in.
RJ and I went through probably six or
seven variations of how this guy should
look.
You can see a couple pencil sketches on
there of what we did and a couple
references.
A lot of these characters have a three-D
rendering that I did as a reference for
RJ to kind of then...
yeah build from um so there's stuff like
that that we'll eventually put on there
and that's where you can get your own
like uh digital copy like you can read
it for free but you can get a
free digital pdf on our patreon or not
a free i'm sorry you have to pay
for the pdf there it's the only place
you pay uh yeah unless unless in this
circumstance like here i'm gonna comp you
uh of course um
Hey, hey, that's the perk of the job,
all right?
Yeah.
Right.
No, every time somebody sends me one,
I'm so extremely thankful to be sent the
book.
Even if I had the chance to buy
it, like the physical copy,
I would a hundred percent buy the physical
copy as well because I am a physical
medium collector.
So for me,
the physical medium will always...
be the end goal for anything that I
collect from a comic book perspective.
And don't get me wrong,
like some of the guys in the UK,
if I backed their book,
I'm just requesting digital copies now.
So I saved like,
fifteen dollars in shipping because the
shipping from the UK to the US is
just absolutely absurd now.
So, yeah.
Oh, my God.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dude, this is ridiculous.
It's bad.
It's crazy to like.
It's becoming a dwindling and difficult
way to try and get a couple,
you know, comics...
one of the big comics I love are
the Nightbreed comics from the nineties,
like the,
the original run that was continuation.
Cause that was one of those things, like,
I love that movie.
I'm like,
I wanted the trilogy that was never made.
And so I read all of those,
but I got them from this website that
I'm pretty sure it doesn't even exist now.
It still looked like it was built in
like, you know,
it was one of those pages and it
was a UK page.
And I tried looking it up and I
couldn't find it.
But I mean, I don't know,
with search results getting buried the way
they do now with AI and graph.
But yeah, I mean, those...
The days of trying to just get things
physical media wise,
especially if they're not things that are
being print right now or they're not at
least popular comics that are within
frequent circulation.
Because like I got all those Nightbreed
comics now and it's like I look them
up now.
I can barely find any of them on
eBay or like some of the Fright Night
comics I got from that website as well.
And I had a couple issues I never
found,
so I try and look them up and
nothing.
So it's a difficult kind of thing.
I'm in the same boat with several
different series that came out when I
wasn't collecting.
It was a comic book about pirates,
but it was like a horror comic about
pirates.
I found one in a blind box.
and um never been able to find anything
to go with it i know it's at
least it was a four-part series cannot
find the other three to save my life
anywhere wow like websites it's like it it
was like they made the first one and
they just never did the other three even
though it says they made the full run
of the four books but
You go to look for them.
There's no trace of them.
Yeah.
It's just wild how that works.
It's like the Ronald McDonald Loch Ness
cartoon episode where it's such a limited
thing that people thought it was like a
cryptid tape.
They didn't think it was real.
Exactly.
Yeah, wow.
If you want to...
If you want to shoot me the Patreon
link when we're done here,
I will get that included into the
description when this goes live on YouTube
and also on podcasts and platforms.
That way they have access to that as
well.
I just want to set everybody up who
may be interested in this book with all
elements of the book and where they can
find this really unique and fun book.
book because I'm telling everybody out
there it is such a fun read.
If you got a kid, twelve,
thirteen years old,
a hundred percent cool book for them to
read.
There's no that's the perfect age I think
to start reading this book in my opinion.
Okay.
But that's that's just me.
But
I started reading Preacher and The Mask
when I was that age.
Same.
People think, oh, it's The Mask.
No, don't.
The Mask wasn't exactly kid-friendly.
Even though the movie was made kind of
kid-friendly.
Don't let your kids read The Mask.
No, no.
And absolutely don't let them read
Preacher.
Oh, God.
No.
Ass face alone will scare them.
But let's bring it home, man.
But Ghostwood is one of those projects
that reminds you exactly why indie comics
matter.
No rules, no limits,
just creators building something original
and putting it out into the world.
If you're into horror,
conspiracy and stories that feel like
something is always lurking just beneath
the surface.
then Ghostwit is definitely a book for you
to check out.
Make sure you follow Zach and RJ,
read Ghostwit on Global Comics for free,
and support indie creators doing it their
way.
Ladies and gentlemen,
this has been the USDM Podcast,
where indie comics come to life.
The Council of Nerds is now adjourned.
Y'all be safe, and happy weekend.
Alright.