Girls Who Do Stuff

Our guest, Matthew Coppedge, is a local celebrity, currently the Garner Chamber of Commerce president, and is kind of a big deal.

Show Notes

He went to UNC-Chapel Hill for his undergrad and did an internship with the Charlotte Hornets in their marketing department. He then fell in love with economic development and worked in downtown Durham for 12 years revitalizing downtown.

He then decided to try his hand at modeling. He posted every day to his Instagram and the things that got the most likes were him in a three-piece suit. So he gained thousands of followers and signed some deals as an influencer. Matthew shares that this is a tough industry to make it as a social media influencer. Landing deals have been difficult but he has seen some real success.

We talk about the life of a social media influencer. Matthew believes it is more about content creation than just being sponsored for work you're already doing.

Matthew talks about the work that he and his team were able to do in Durham to change the perception of the city. It was a rewarding time to see the changes made in the community and that's why he took the job in Gardner which is growing exponentially.

We talk about the Smoffice (The world's smallest office) and the efforts Matthew and his team made to help get the word out on the work they were doing in Durham. Tech Crunch and Fast Company picked up the story and it went viral. They were nominated for the most original chamber project in the world and won!

We talk about the power of community. What it means to Matthew and how it leads to real growth.

"We're building Garner for the next 50-75 years. That's what we are doing right now. Garner is one of the only communities that is a little farther behind most of the other cities in the triangle and we can build what we want." -Matthew

"Life is short. Just do things." -Matthew

 You can follow Matthew on Instagram, LinkedIn, and his Facebook Page

What is Girls Who Do Stuff?

Come as you are with the courage to speak up and tell a better story. A raw and real podcast from two courageous women making an impact in their communities by helping guests share their unique stories.

Your hosts Jenny and Sarah are soul sisters with a passion for creating a space for authentic storytelling. Their guests will make you laugh, cry, and leave you with all-the-feels while you learn from thought leaders like entrepreneurs, influencers, coaches, real estate moguls, speakers, reality stars, and creative geniuses.

Welcome to the girls to do stuff.

I'm Jenny, not happy to be here
because you're like welcome the girls.

everybody's happy to be.

I was like, what's happening?

I'll tell you what, I'll host
this, Sarah and I will host it.

Yes.

Yes.

I am Sarah Madras and this
is, Jenny Michley and this is

the girls who do stuff podcast.

The show where you come as you
are with the courage to speak

up and tell a better story.

And today in the studio,
we have a local celebrity.

I was reading the bio and I
was like, Ooh, he's a big deal.

Kind of a big, he's a big deal.

Hey, we bring in the big names.

I was like, just own it.

I was like, Matthew, just own it.

Be like, hell yeah, I am.

Yeah.

My husband's also a Matthew he has a
shirt that says kind of a big deal.

It fits my husband.

It does very much.

We have sign in our kitchen that
says a big deal, and pickles.

live in the world of puns.

I very much enjoy it.

Your wife and I, we get along very well.

I'm funny.

So today in the studio
we have Matthew Coppedge.

He is currently the president of the
garner chamber of commerce, but he

has a very long list of accolades
to follow him to that position.

So Matthew, can you tell us about you.

All about myself, all about yourself.

So I was born in
Fayetteville, North Carolina.

So I'm an Eastern North Carolina guy.

I grew up mostly in Goldsborough.

The quick rundown is I went to
UNC chapel hill for undergrad.

I went to north Klenner central
for graduate school in between I

intern with the Charlotte Hornets
and their marketing department.

I have lots of interests in sports and
fell in love with economic developers.

I'm in Durham.

So I worked there in downtown Durham for
12 years doing economic development with

a company called downtown Durham, Inc.

So we helped revitalize downtown Durham.

So that was a lot of fun.

And that's where I really
fell in love with that.

So really what I like to do
is branding and marketing and

repositioning and like I like personal
branding and those kinds of things.

So at some point in time, I was like, I
did that for 12 years in Durham and wanted

to try this modeling thing everywhere.

He had been like, oh, since I was
young, that you should try modeling.

And I was like, that's not a thing.

You go to college and you go to
school when you get a degree and you

do the thing, creative artsy person.

I'm not going to stand
in front of a camera.

And so I was super shy to like in
high school and college, like I

would never do anything like this.

I sit in the back of the class, really
good student, but was super quiet.

And no, the nice thing about
working at downtown Durham, Inc.

I was like, I really need to get good at
public speaking because it's a skill that

no matter what job you ever have or what
you decide to do, it's helpful and will

allow you to really do some good things.

So I wanted to get good at that.

And then I fell in love, really fell in
love with getting in front of a crowd and

speaking, I'm more comfortable in front of
a crowd of 500 people than three people.

So that was a lot of fun.

And then I decided, I'm going to
try this modeling thing for a while.

So I got on Instagram and started posting.

I was like, I'm gonna see what happens
if I post something every day for a year.

And so I posted stuff for everyone.

Oh yeah.

So I posted something every day
for a year and you learn a lot when

you start posting, it's like what
people like and what they don't like.

A lot of people will do like shoes on
a floor and like a grid outfit grid,

and they'll post those kinds of things.

And I posted that and I did different
things and the things that got the most

likes for me posing in three-piece suits.

Yeah.

That was, and this was like 2016 probably.

And so I was like, oh let's try this.

And so after the first year I had
24,000 followers and realized that,

oh, this is something that I can.

Figure out how to do.

And so I've signed a number of deals
with larger, clothing companies

and hotel companies and alcohol
companies, even though I don't drink.

So it was just I didn't
know that in your hand.

That's fine.

Yeah.

And yeah, so I did that
for a couple of years.

I was doing, I was working at a couple
of places while I was trying to see

if this would work as an influencer.

It's a really hard and difficult.

It's a struggle to get deals, I would say.

Cause there's lots of people that
are willing to do it for free.

Yeah.

Because they don't understand, they don't
understand, some of the bigger companies

that are worked with Brooks, brothers
and Samuelson, who a lot of people don't

know, but he, they outfit Justin Trudeau.

So they're Canadian suit companies.

So I've worked with them and I
continue to work with them, but

more on a modeling kind of basis.

But yeah, it's a tough industry.

People are willing to do it for free.

If you send them a free suit,
the company sends a free suit,

they'll give them free content.

So I was asking for free
suits, plus you gotta pay me.

So it's a, it's an interesting interesting
industry influencer to local places.

Cause I'm like, when you
walked in, I was like, you look

straight out of Peter malar.

Oh, I was like, are you sure
you're not on their catalog?

Or yeah.

And I think that's the that's an
important takeaway, like moving forward,

it's like this weird push and pull
that happens in social media, right?

That like you have the, on the one hand,
the people who were like value, show your

worth, earn your worth, charge your worth.

Like you must value yourself
above all else and tell these

companies what you're worth.

And then there's the people who
are like, Ooh, but exposure.

And I'm going to get the exposure.

And I'm like, but exposure
doesn't put food on my table.

So and as photographers, we see
that, oh I'm the only photographer

in the room as a photographer.

I see that people like big name companies
will comment and say, if you say, yes,

you are giving us irrevocable rights
to this image for all of eternity.

And they're using that as like the legal
basis and just having their marketing

people comment on other people's stuff.

And I think it's really interesting
to, to see the way that the industry

is shifting and like this, like I was
saying, this push and pull of the people

who are influencers are saying, look,
I will be an influencer if you pay me.

Because I you're, I'm giving you my time.

I'm like, it's worth more
than free shit for me.

Yeah.

And it's also telling that story you're
creating content, it's more than just a

photo that you can take with your iPhone.

But as you know that, you know
what, that's a photographer,

everybody's a photographer now.

And and that's also what that turns
into, but, I think eventually there'll

be this, people will realize they
can't really make money doing it.

So they'll stop as influencers.

I don't like that word, but cause I think
everybody influences different things.

And as a content creator is
more of what I saw it as where,

a large company can hire me.

When I was doing this, can hire
me to be the modeling agency, the

photography agency, the whole package,
as opposed to them having to do

it separately, they liked, ended
up liking a lot of the companies.

That's why they continue to work with
me was that they liked the content.

I produce more than what they were hiring,
all these tens of thousands of dollars

to have them create these campaigns.

And they're like, we can
pay you way less than that.

But, getting that middle ground where
people realize the value in that,

and aren't just taking freestyle.

Yeah.

And it is a lot about the
education of educating people

on the value of that everything.

Yep.

For sure.

For sure.

So is that those are the photos that
got you in the top 40, under 40 yards?

Nope.

Nothing to do with it, nothing at all.

So tell us how that happened.

Oh, gosh.

So that would have been my birthday is
this month, so I'll be 46 this month.

So it's been seven or eight years
now since that happened, so it was

a really just of the work that we
were doing in Durham and really

getting involved in the community and
building, and revitalizing Durham and,

connections are a big part of it and
things that you're able to accomplish.

So it was like the small office,
the world's smallest office

space competition we won.

Creative marketing ideas and really
changing the perception of Durham.

When I started there in
2004, that was my job.

And I got hired right in 2004.

Oh, okay.

I worked in Durham during that time
and I was still in Syracuse in 2004.

It wasn't a pretty place.

It was pushed back 10 years before that.

It was, really the reputation was
bad and then the reputation obviously

follows it takes a lot longer to change.

So yeah, that was that was a fun time
in revitalizing that, but then you get

to a point where you've done all that.

Kind of the fun, creative stuff,
like filling the warehouses

and bringing in new businesses.

We had, I don't know, like less than
10 restaurants there in downtown

Durham when we started 2004, when I
started 2004, now fruitiest place in

the south, and seeing those changes
and being able to impact a community

is really what I am passionate about.

And that's what I didn't get
with the influencer stuff.

How many times can you take photos
of yourself and my mom and my wife

where my photographers just say no.

So my mom and I have this great
relationship, she's always wanted to be

in like photography and creative stuff.

So we would go out and shoot
these photos for Instagram.

And but I really, how
many of those can you do?

I, it just gets boring for me.

It did.

And really impacting the community
is why I took the job in garner.

Cause we're on the same kind of
trajectory where growth is coming.

It's.

Creates all these challenges that we
saw in Durham, over a 10 year period.

And it happens really fast and, you
get businesses, they get pushed out.

If you don't do it right.

And there's all these, small
businesses are the ones that kind

of struggle when you deal with that.

And so we want to put things
in place in garner, and that's

one of the reasons I applied.

And one of the reasons I got hired was to
really have experienced that and to bring

that to garner and see what we can create,
really create something really cool.

Cause we're going to have 15,000
new residents in the next three

or four years in garner and it's
like the 35,000 now, like it's a

huge increase in a huge change.

But that's what I really found
out that I love doing is.

And economic development and making
people proud of their community and being

able to influence and impact people's
lives by essentially you create wealth

for the people that are in business
and living there in the community.

And hold on one second.

Did you say that y'all won
an award for a small office?

The small office?

Yeah.

What is the small office world?

Smallest office space.

So what was the word?

What was the world's smallest office?

What the whole story you want?

The whole thing.

It's a small office.

Like I don't, I feel like it's
like a muffin or something.

I don't know.

Tell me about the small office.

Yeah, so we were doing a lot of startup
stuff in Durham in 2000 8, 9, 10 to

really put Durham on the map in the
country for kind of a startup hub.

Everybody wants to be, the Silicon
valley and the next Silicon valley.

And so we were doing a lot of fun things.

We did this thing called the
startup stampede, where we had.

I think 15 companies that, we
had a hundred companies apply,

but 15 got accepted where you got
three months of free office space.

You got to work with entrepreneurs who
are successful and learn from them.

And we set up like free accounting advice
and lawyers and these kinds of things.

So people who were thinking about
starting a tech company, could

really dip their feet into it.

If they were still working
a job, they could do this.

And so we started there and then
we were like, how do we, everybody

started copying that, like we did that.

It was super successful.

We got regional, newspaper and
news coverage on that articles.

And then how can we differentiate
from what anybody else is doing?

So I, my partner, Adam Klein, who was
at the Durham chamber at that time

I was like, We should just give away
the smallest office that we can give

away and promote the heck out of it.

And our goal was over like a six or
seven year period to do enough things

where like a wall street journal
tech crunch, fast company would

cover what was going on in Durham.

So we pulled the same office together.

It was in the front window
on main street of BU coffee.

So we actually put a wall up, there was
this glass window and we put a wall up.

It was small about half the size of
this office that we're in right now.

So it was like 20 square feet.

We put it in that's
right in the probably.

Yes.

And and we did a competition where
you got six months of that space.

You got, the same kind of introductions
to the people that are successful

to help you be successful.

And then you got an apartment
for six months as well.

So that, that allowed
us to open it up now.

So we could market it that way.

So you got six months of free living.

You got six months of this
free office space, plus all the

connections that we had in Europe.

And we actually had a large
marketing company that was going

to do the promo video for us.

And they backed out like the week before.

And we were like, you know
what, we'll just do it.

So we had Sheena Johnson who was the
marketing director of the chamber.

She remembered the flip cameras.

She took the flip camera and then it's
the video is still somewhere Adam Klein.

And I, we did the here's what the
small office is, it was like a 10

minute, five minute video, and the
next day when we launched it, it hit

fast company and tech crunch, which is
the largest startup blog in the world.

They had four and half million
followers at that point in time.

And so it just kinda blew up cause
it was just this different thing to

showcase what we were doing and you
can't showcase it without actually

having the base in place of, we actually
had entrepreneurs, we had startups.

And so that was, and then the next year we
were nominated for the most unconventional

chamber project in the world.

Yeah.

With five other countries, like they
were countries, chambers of commerce

is that we're competing with us and
they've spent like someone spent like

$10 million on these marketing campaigns
and these whatever thing we spent, like

here's our, we spent like 30 grand on
it and we had a bunch of sponsors that

helped just furniture and whatever.

Yeah.

And we went over to Doha, Qatar.

Clutter is what most people call it
here and in the middle east and me and

Adam and Casey Steinberger, who was the
chamber president at the time, went over

to Doha and we ended up winning the,
we got the band, we got the big check.

I stood up there on stage
with a $3,000 check.

And then they took the check back
and gave it to the next person.

We didn't get to keep the paycheck,
which was the most disappointing part.

Yeah.

It be like, would you have been
able to get it on the plane?

Was that, would you have been
able to get it on the plane?

We had gotten it on the planet
that had given it to us.

For sure.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

So that was, it was an interesting
experience, We try to do things

that most, like economic velvet
organizations and chambers at

that point, weren't doing right.

Something new and something different.

Think more like entrepreneurs.

And that's one of the things that
I'm trying to bring, and we are

bringing to the garner chamber where
we've opened a co-working space.

Now we've taken our whole
building and updated it.

Now we have a co-working space there
called the hub, and we will put in a

studio similar to this actually, where
people can use it cause space in garner.

There's no way for people to do this.

And we're doing things a little
differently than the traditional

chamber and that's kinda what
we're trying to bring to gardeners.

And it's, re-imagining it's looking at the
situation and saying, we don't have to do

it the same way that it's been done over
and over again, because at some point it's

a, it's you outgrow that, what's the worst
that can happen if you fail, who cares?

Whatever you tried it.

And it's more fun that way
dollars on a marketing campaign.

You know what I mean?

Like in the scheme of things, right?

Like when you have less
money, you'd be more creative.

And so I think like my background,
I like to do lots of things,

obviously super add and I'm all
over the place, but I need that.

I need that to keep me engaged.

Yeah.

That's kinda to jump around and do things
if we're not doing and create and moving

forward then we're just going to die.

And as a company.

And so that's not necessarily
what the vision of chambers

has been in the past, for sure.

Changing that perception has
been one of my, one of my goals.

And I hear you talking a lot about
community and so that, it sounds

like it's one of your core values
and a driving force for you.

So tell us uh, uh, what
community means to you though.

How do you define it?

What does it look like?

Yeah, sure.

I would say collaboration is
the biggest part of that, right?

Like bringing in the most voices you
can bring in because everybody is

going to have different experiences
and they're going to have different

viewpoints on things and taking those
ideas, bringing everybody to the table.

So you can come up with
the best solutions.

That's the ultimate goal, right?

And if you're exclusive, then
you don't get those opinions and

you don't get that collaboration.

And everybody feel that they have
a part, but it also generates

what you want in the long run.

And the end is a valuable solution
to a problem or a way to grow the

community or whatever, that what
you're trying to accomplish is.

And I think that's kinda what
I see as community, as in word.

So how will we, what will success look
like for you in regards to garner?

Like, how are you going to know when
it's successful when people are.

Proud of their community.

Not that there are people in garner,
the art community, super passionate,

but we were having this conversation
the other day is like, a lot of times,

we've seen other communities grow
faster and get some bigger economic

development deals that you want.

And people, garner has had a
reputation too, from what I

understand, in, in some yeah.

In, in different areas.

And making sure that everybody's okay
or their community and they get the,

what the vision is of what we want
to grow as a community, keeping the

small businesses, engaged and involved
and growing the wealth and having

opportunities for people that are
in the community and grow in those.

And that takes all the voices in
the community to come together,

say what are we planning for?

We're building garner right now
for the next 50 to 75 years.

That's what we're doing right now.

Yeah.

Durham is past that point.

Raleigh is way past that point.

Raleigh is what it is.

You have pockets that you can develop
and have influence on, but really garner

is one of the only communities that is a
little farther behind the most of these

places and we can build what we want.

And so having those, the nice
thing is we haven't developed so

far that we can't change what it's
going to be now with the pandemic.

And so this gives us a huge opportunity
to create what the new, what is

the new office space look like?

Wasn't it?

What does new residential look like?

What does new retail look like?

Because it's different and
it's going to be different.

Nobody really knows exactly what it's
going to be, but we have an opportunity

to engage, in what that is going to be.

We're still the cheapest land in
the triangle right now and cheapest

housing, but that has gone crazy.

Yeah.

Yeah, In the projects that you're
doing, you're challenging the status

quo and you're enabling this disruption
and you're presenting these new ideas.

So how do you handle the resistance
to those as what resistance?

You get the support of the people
that, that, you need and then, people

don't like change, they just don't.

So you do the best to explain,
here's why we're doing this.

Here's where we're going.

And then at some point
you just got to go, right?

You're not going to make everybody happy.

And that is a hard thing for me.

A lot of times to accept I get along
with almost everybody and having my life.

And I don't, that's a little harder thing
for me to have gotten used to the last few

years I would say is just accepting that.

And that's what, a lot of people
who have experienced this or been

through it, just creating change
and doing things differently.

They talk about this.

This is just one of the things
you have to be comfortable with.

Yeah.

But not, everybody's gonna
be happy and that's okay.

And it's being comfortable in the
middle of that conflict for sure.

Yeah.

It's being tempting to be comfortable.

Yeah, I can agree with that, but
it's, and it's also looking at it

from the perspective of you're you
have this vision and you have to

get everybody on board with it.

So like getting exerting that influence,
and I'm not saying exerting and like

the, in a, in dominant type of way,
but shining light the influence of it

comes back to that collaboration, right?

That's, if people feel like they
have a voice and what is happening,

they feel more comfortable with it.

Yeah.

Yep.

Shining because it's making me think
of he has the vision and so he's

projecting it out so that thinking
I'm not shy, but it's I can't get off.

So funny projecting.

Is that better?

Yeah.

I guess it's how do you pull
people into your sphere of him?

Yeah.

You reach out, you educate them
on the benefits, but I've been

reaching out and we've been doing
in the last two weeks now, we've

had seven or eight ribbon cuttings.

And there are people who groups
that are joining the chamber, who

would never have joined in the past.

And, cause they just
see a different vision.

Not that the, what was in the past is bad.

It's not bad, it's that,
it was just different.

And so as we grow the not only the
triangles grow home gardens growing

the whole community is growing.

And just being able to know that.

I have, I have broader
connections than just garner.

And so people appreciate that.

And people, the other thing we're doing
is people value different things, right?

Honestly, it goes back to you.

You said the shiny new w we, you and
I we're on the same page, Sarah and

I were on the same page about what it
was you and Joe were like talking about

the movie, the shine, jack Nicholson.

It's not that it was negative.

It was just like, I
can't shining influence.

Doesn't carry the same weight in my
brain as I was trying to figure out

another word for exert and you came
up with shine and it just wasn't,

but he goes, but not simpatico.

People see things differently, right?

Like you see the exact
same thing differently.

And as we grow, we need to make sure, and
this is, I think this is with any company.

It's not just a chamber.

Like we've all had to
change this last year.

How are you providing the most
value to whoever your customers are?

And so not, everybody's going
to use our coworking space.

Some people could care less.

Some people could care
less about a studio space.

But there are a lot of members
that do, a lot of our members

are larger companies value.

Us being in the community, growing
the community and recruit and

bigger companies, because that
helps them grow their values.

And so a smaller business is going
to care more about marketing and

exposure and those kinds of things.

And so how do you provide things?

And you can't do everything for
everybody, but how do you make sure

you're helping value those people?

And the only reason, the only way to find
out what they need is to talk to them.

That's how we did this.

Start at St.

Pete.

That's how we did the small office.

Actually the small office came
from how do we be different?

But the startups and P which is
the one before it was us sitting

down with Aaron Houghton, who was
one of the founders of eye contact.

If you guys familiar with email marketing
software, he sold it when he was, when

his partner saw it, when they were
like early thirties for $180 million.

And he's a really good friend of mine
and we sat down, Adam and I, and him sat

down and we're like, what do we need to
do to get people he's just giving away

free space, like just get people here to
downtown Durham and they'll fall in love

but you've got to get people here first.

And so the way we addressed that
was we went to the person who

was successful in doing this.

Found out what he thought was valuable.

And then we provided that thing.

That's what a lot of people in
Steve jobs talks about this a lot.

I don't know if you guys are interested
in his talks, but it's really

interesting the way he went and came
in and turned around apple, but it

was, it's we'll develop a lot of things
that are technology-based we're like,

we think it's going to be a great
idea and then launch it and it bombs.

Because they didn't talk to the
customers first about what they wanted.

And what they value.

And so figuring that out and then figuring
out how to address those issues is the

most important thing we're trying to do.

I think really what's super duper
important, especially with when you're

talking about the small business
community, because one of the interesting

things about garner and I had talked
to some people about joining the garner

chamber and then I visited a couple of
times and what I witnessed was this.

Amalgamation of these giant
corporations and these, I don't

know what she found process of
result or combining or unifying.

And you used it like quite
correctly, like really good.

That's really good.

Good vocabulary.

Can you text that to me?

I want to use that sometimes
less sounds super smart.

I'm using words like
great awesome, fantastic.

The name of my new podcast.

I'm launching amalgamation nation.

Love it.

I'm going to trademark that
shit and make you license.

But what I witnessed was amalgamation
of these giant corporations, right?

Amazon and the bigger, I can't even
remember right now, because all I

can think of is the Amazon warehouse,
but I've drank big companies.

and then these solos, these
solo business owners, are these

other small brick and mortars?

Are they, that, that truly represented
the community in a way that I didn't, and

it's not that other chambers don't have
it, but if you join the Raleigh chamber,

honestly, and this is nothing against the
Raleigh chamber, but you have to be super

duper, intentional, and active in the
Raleigh chamber to get that visibility.

And in some of the other community
networking communities, those types of

things it was just a very interesting mix.

Like I got off a couple of calls
and I turned and I said to my

husband, I was like, I think this
is the one that y'all need to join.

Cause they'd been shopping
chambers and with Wellforce.

And so it was just looking
at it and seeing the energy.

And how.

What you're talking about, that you
ended up doing with the hub and the

coworking space and all those things
is bringing together people who just

by nature of sharing space are going to
develop great things, and when you get

the people in it's the same thing that
y'all said you were doing in Durham,

you get the people in the building
and then great things will happen.

And now I'm done talking for the
rest of the show, but I want to point

out about what you said is it starts
with asking the people of what the

need is and what the want is, but it
isn't, you didn't just stop there.

You're like, okay, now we have the data
and now we're going to go find the expert.

Who's already done this and
we're going to go ask them, okay.

Guide us.

And I think.

What stops people is one they're afraid
to ask people what they really want.

Cause that's putting themselves out there.

That's making themselves vulnerable.

And so they miss that
step because of that fear.

And then let's say that they do that.

They're like, I've put a poll out.

I have done, like I've
figured out what they want.

Then they just try to do it on their own
rather than saying, who is an expert.

That's already done this.

Who can I chat with?

Because that feels vulnerable to have
all of this as me, person reaching out

and saying, can you help me with this?

And the smartest people are the ones
who know I'm gonna I'm going to get

there faster and with less bruises
and battered NIS along the way.

And probably saving a
lot of time and money.

If I just have the courage to be
like, yo, you did this really great.

Can you work?

We're trying to do that too.

I have never once found anybody that
wasn't willing to help and wasn't willing

to sit down and Leese have coffee.

To go over things that they've done and
their experiences and how it can help.

Like I've not once had
anybody say no to that.

So it is just the figuring out
how to contact them and ask them.

And it's not just this impersonal,
LinkedIn message that you send, it's

easy to find contact information for
people, just call somebody up and

be like, look, I want to do this.

I admire you.

I'd love to buy a coffee.

Like it's as simple as that, most
people will actually, here in the

triangle, at least we'll actually
do that and sit down with you.

So people get so intimidated
that they won't even put

themselves out there to do that.

Or for me, I would be
like, they're so busy.

I don't want to bother them.

Like I want to be really respectful
of people's time and their skills

and and so I am definitely why
would they talk to me or others?

And it is, it's one of those
things it's choosing collaboration

and community over competition.

And it's saying, whether
you're the Reacher outer or the

receiver, you're saying like, Hey.

I'm here in this space.

I would love to sit down and
just, don't say don't reach out to

somebody and say, let me pick your
brain because that's insulting, but

just say, can I buy you a coffee?

I'd love to have a conversation
and learn more about how you did

whatever or how you're doing whatever.

And I see this all the time, especially
with within the photography community.

It's amazing to me, there are
photographers out there who are unwilling.

To share their expertise,
share their knowledge their

lessons learned along the way.

And then, I'll be in conversations
with people and be like, Hey,

like just stop by the studio.

We'll talk about it.

It's cool.

And they're like, really?

I'm like, I get that a lot
too, when people are going

to start their own business.

And they're like, I've contacted like
four people and you're the only one

that's would be willing to try it.

Yeah.

And we've had this conversation separately
in a couple of other circumstances,

which we're not going to air out on
the podcast, but if it cause that's

the truth, is it, if someone were
to come to one of us and say, Hey,

I'd like to learn about podcasting.

Can you and Sarah sit down for coffee.

I'd be like, when let's sync our
calendars, we did it last week.

And because it just means that we are
making the world better by collaborating.

There's nothing harmful.

That's going to come up that.

And if somebody is going to be
like, And asphalt and copier shit.

Isn't imitation the greatest
form of flattery to be real,

like everything is copied, right?

I'm like, let's be real.

That was like, that's a genius.

And what I'm saying, like doing the
what you're doing at the garner chamber

with the hub and the studio space.

And I'll like, you and I have
talked about that before.

Like it's very smart.

You have these unused conference
room, that you're then like, Hey,

you know what, if you're a small
business owner you've been working

at home for a year and a half.

Thing just won't add and just get out of
your house for a few hours and come hang

out with us and it's going to be cool.

And you're going to maybe
meet some people, if not your

kids won't be yelling at you.

Exactly.

The thing about about the collaboration
and about sharing of ideas, right?

Like for all the other chambers, right?

Like I want all the chambers
to be good because it raises

the reputation of all of us.

So it's more likely for us to
get customers to it's the same

with, garner and Carrie at apex.

If they get a bit Holly Springs, they
just got a huge life sciences deal.

But that's good for the whole community.

That's whole good for the track.

All right.

And people need to start looking
at things, that way I think.

And the thing I'll say about, us using
some underutilized space, our conference

room and whatever, think creatively.

Things, there's so many
different things that you can do.

If you just take a step back and
look at, look at what you have

and figure out how you can utilize
the things you have better.

And I know we, weren't trying
to build a new building.

That's what a lot of people are.

Like, you have to go
rent a space to do this.

We don't need to do that.

Like we can do those kinds of,
and this is with any aspect of

wholeheartedly agree, right?

Look at things differently, even
get friends over, just be like, Hey,

what's your perspective on this?

They're going to have that
aren't in your industry.

You may get better ideas from the
people who aren't in your industry

that can see things, cause you, a
lot of times can't see the forest

for the trees, like business.

And so you're so focused on, being in
your business and doing photography and

doing whatever that you're not necessarily
looking at the broader picture of things.

So right now talking to as many
people as you can that's the thing.

And yeah, Sharon I'll, we'll share
anybody and talk to any chamber or

organization that wants to, figure out
how we did this thing and how they can.

Now the problem people run into is they
try and recreate the exact same thing.

A lot of.

And so in Durham we were doing a
startup community and we had, we

already had 50 startups and that's
when we started like marketing.

Hey, we can make this.

And now I think there's 350 there now.

But you have to have something still.

And we had a lot of people who
wanted to recreate the small

office how many they will.

We were like, we want to focus on startups
and bring a bunch of startups here.

We're like how many startups do you have?

I'm like we have one in a strip
mall near this coffee shop.

Or like you're trying to, you're trying to
create something that's not there at all.

So it's better to take the things that
you already have and identify what those

are and focus on how you amplify those.

Yes.

Yeah.

Oh, I love that.

Amplify your strengths and reach
out for support where well, and

I love that for so many reasons,
because one, it stops people.

They get frozen because they think
I have to buy a whole new building

in order to make this come true.

Or I was doing dare to lead
training for a local company.

And literally I was like, Before I
leave, like I know that this is outside

of the scope of the courage skills,
but can we please talk about the client

experience and the energy and environment?

Can we please redo your
office pretty please?

But that's exactly it is.

Then they started saying, oh,
let me get a designer and did it.

And I was like whoa, no,
that's not what I'm saying.

I'm like, literally, like we can do
this real simply of just move this

here, add this like a $20 coffee card.

Like what are we doing here?

You know what I mean?

But people do, they automatically go,
I have to build a whole new building.

I have to re you know,
revamp the entire thing.

And so then they stopped because they
were like, oh, that's so much money.

You've gone from two grand, probably
to two 50, because they're stuck in the

renovate instead of just re-imagining.

And added NetSuite furniture.

That's pretty much, I we changed the
layout, the furniture is, it's a set

up for more coworking and it looks,
it looks a thousand times better.

It gets cool signs, but
that's, that's it exactly.

Yes.

But that stops people.

Yeah.

And then they get, and that's the
other thing too, is that they're in it.

And so the whole thing, you can't read
the label when you're in the bottle.

And so it's you got to get other
people to look and say, what

can we do with what we already.

And then make that even more amazing.

Yep.

And a lot of people, like you said,
get stuck, but that's one of the

reasons I love your your, the girls
who do stuff, podcasts name, it's

just do stuff like just start, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just do, just start doing something
like a lot of people just are

scared that they're going to fail.

They're going to look who cares.

Like life's short just do things.

And I like testing things and
this is not how people think.

A lot of people they'll plan
stuff for a year or two.

And then they'll launch
it, hoping that it works.

I like to just launch all the things that
we have ideas out, see if it works, if

it doesn't take them, we just scrap it.

That's how you learn what
people actually want.

So as a poll is a backwards
way of, getting to the value

add, but you test stuff is one
of the reasons I hate surveys.

You mentioned surveys earlier is
that people don't actually tell

you how they're going to act.

They tell you what they think they want.

But I learned this in Durham.

It was like a retail study and the
consultant we had, everybody wanted

us survey we'll know what people do.

The consultant was like, what people
answer on the survey is they want to

shop at Saks fifth avenue and they want
to shop at Bloomingdale's and that's

what they want in their community.

But they actually shop
at target for clothes.

No, if there's anything
wrong with that right.

Target stuff.

But that's where they
actually spend their money.

So what they say and what they do
for two completely different things.

Yep.

And so the only way to get to the
things that people will actually do.

Launching things or selling
the product or correct.

So it's more of a newer mindset.

Totally.

Cause it's like, Hey, I'm not
going to create my entire year

long, Darien leadership society
program, I'm going to launch it.

And then as I'm going, the people in
the program are going to tell me exactly

what they need for this next module.

And that's correct.

And it makes your product better.

Exactly.

And that's what I say, like going to
the our previous conversation about

social media and things like that.

Like people will say, I
don't know what to post.

And I just say, just start posting
things and then ask questions

and people will tell you what
they want to know more about.

Like they will come and they
will literally lay it on a

silver platter in front of you.

And then you can.

Then create more scripted
things, create more content,

create more stuff just around.

The questions go to an ice cream
shop and take a picture of yourself

with whatever ice cream you're doing.

This is any business owner can
do this because people want more

personal on Facebook for sure.

And just ask me what their
favorite ice cream is.

I will get in straight
up, engage with people.

Cause you know, how passionate
about ice cream you are.

That's like my thing.

We ha but that's part of what I teach
in my course is that's actually,

I just recorded it the other day.

Like I call it the chocolate ice
cream principle and it's because of

Christine Walters, she is literally
so passionate about life insurance

and she was getting angry because
people were more interested in sharing

their favorite flavor of ice cream.

And I was like, it's because
social media is social.

Like people want to share with you.

They want to engage with you.

They want to create a connection with you.

You're selling yourself,
you're selling a relationship.

That's why people buy products.

And that's what it is.

And then the more people understand that
the, this is one of the reasons I don't

like the influencer moniker, but I also
like my account as a style account, it's

like it's real, but it's very quickly
it's commandments of stuff on Instagram.

Yeah.

It's not real.

It is real, but it's not real right.

It is staged and that's
intentional for the brand.

But then people think that it's real.

And I do actually, but
I wear those clothes.

So I may change it into more of Hey,
cause I don't know what I'm doing with it.

Hardly post on it at all.

And it's just been, this last
year has been crazy with the

pandemic and starting this new job.

But but he still wears a suit every day.

I do.

So it might just be like, here's
what I'm wearing at the chamber

today, but it's also less personal.

Like when people meet me after seeing
my account, they're like, oh, you're not

like I thought you'd be a real person.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And the thought you'd be like super
pretentious and that's, I don't know.

You're trying to be.

And it's it's definitely a difference.

So I much prefer as you see on all
our the guard chamber stuff, we take

selfies with everybody that comes to
the office and that we go out with.

So everybody has customers,
everybody works with people,

post that kind of stuff.

That's what generates engagement.

And if you do that plus ask questions,
then you're, you create engagement

and you want engagement, not like.

Like vanity metrics okay, here's right.

We did this gift card giveaway
a few months ago and garner, and

it just went, we had 400 to 700
comments proposed for 35 days.

We're doing this giveaway.

That's how you create engagement, and
people like actually taking an action

for you, what you actually want.

And I think the difference is, and what
I've seen right in these towns is as

being a small business owner , in the wake
county community and is when you go out

and reach out to the individual businesses
and have a conversation with them, right?

The brick and mortars, the corporates
the solo printers, the small business

owners who have an office space.

There's an there's an actual, paid
coworking space with offices and open

co-working next to the garner chamber.

So if somebody finds that
they really enjoy it.

Being out of their house and they go,
look, I don't want to take advantage of

the hospitality of the Gardner chamber.

Where can I go?

You can be like, oh next door.

We have a local garner business.

That's it?

You don't like, so it's when you
create those engagements within

the community, people will rise up.

They will rise up to meet the
new and improved expectations.

So tell our listeners how
they can connect with you.

Yeah, sure.

Garner chamber.com.

They can check us out there.

I've got LinkedIn and
all those good things.

Then if you want to follow that
Instagram it's commandments of style.

So giving that to my husband,
that's going to love that.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

My husband's big into that too.

He has more clothes in
our closet than I do.

Yeah.

My, my wife was as a former news
anchor, so she left news last summer

and we have a competition going on.

So we were about equal and they might
have clothes and shoes that we have,

but more of mine are free than hers.

That's what Matt will say too.

And then she's like goals.

Like I'm going to be like you
and I'm going to get all of

mine for free 45 or 50 suits.

That's awesome.

That's pretty awesome.

Alrighty.

So thank you for joining us today.

We look forward to continuing
this connection, so I'm excited

to learn more so awesome.