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Join hosts Herbie Newell and Dr. Rick Morton in this special episode of The Defender Podcast as they express gratitude to the unsung heroes of Lifeline Children's Services during Social Work Appreciation Month. Featuring inspiring conversations with Jessica Cumbers, a dedicated caseworker on the South Carolina team, and McKenzie Bussman, an International Social Worker on the Asia team, the episode delves into their journeys, motivations, and the impactful stories that fuel their passion for making a difference in the lives of vulnerable children and families. Discover the unique challenges faced by these social work heroes and the most rewarding aspects of their roles. Gain insights into Lifeline's mission and hear valuable advice for aspiring social workers.
GUESTS
Jessica Cumbers serves as a caseworker on the South Carolina team. She is originally from South Carolina and attended the University of South Carolina, where she received both her bachelor's and master's degrees in social work. She also holds her social work license (LMSW) through the state of South Carolina.
McKenzie Bussman serves as the Program Manager of the Philippines Program and an International Social Worker on the Asia team. McKenzie graduated in 2017 from Samford University with a bachelor’s degree in Sociology and from the University of Alabama with her master's in social work.
HOST
Herbie Newell is the President & Executive Director of Lifeline Children’s Services and its ministry arms.
CO-HOST
Dr. Rick Morton is the Vice President of Engagement at Lifeline Children's Services.
RESOURCES
Facing a wide-open career future can be daunting for students. They want to make an impact with their lives but may not know where to start.That’s why we created Preview Day--to give them a chance to learn about Lifeline while getting first-hand knowledge about positions and opportunities. Professionals will be on hand to talk through goals and dreams.
Come to Preview Day to meet our team, share some food, and win a few prizes! On Thursday, April 4, 2024 at our Birmingham office Visit lifelinechild.org/preview to get more information and register to attend.
LIFELINE CHILDREN'S SERVICES
The mission of Lifeline Children’s Services is to equip the Body of Christ to manifest the gospel to vulnerable children. Our vision is for vulnerable children and their communities to be transformed by the gospel and to make disciples.
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Creators & Guests
Host
Herbie Newell
Herbie Newell serves as the President & Executive Director of Lifeline Children’s Services, holds an MBA in Accounting from Samford University and brings years of experience from his work as an independent auditor at WAKM Companies, LLC. Serving as Lifeline's Executive Director since 2003, Herbie has significantly expanded international outreach, obtained licensure in 17 states, and led the establishment of the foster care arm. A passionate advocate, he co-founded (un)adopted in 2009, focusing on equipping orphaned children with life skills for community transformation. Herbie, also the author of "Image Bearers: Shifting from Pro-birth to Pro-Life," emphasizes that being pro-life extends beyond opposing abortion, urging a broader ethic that includes fighting for racial equality and embracing every individual with the love of Christ. Herbie and his wife, Ashley, reside in Birmingham, Alabama, and are the parents to three children.
Host
Rick Morton
As Senior Vice President of Engagement, Rick Morton shepherds the ministry’s outreach to individual, church, and organizational ministry partners as well as the ministry’s commitment to publishing resources that aid families and churches in discipling orphans and vulnerable children. Prior to Lifeline, Rick served for 15 years as a college and seminary professor, and he also served local churches in Tennessee, Louisiana, and Mississippi. He is an accomplished writer and sought after speaker. Most notably, Rick is the co-author of the popular Orphanology: Awakening to Gospel-centered Adoption and Orphan Care and the author of KnowOrphans: Mobilizing the Church for Global Orphanology. Rick and his lovely wife Denise have been married for over 32 years, and they have 3 children, all of whom joined their family through international adoption. God has continued to grow their family, and he now enjoys the role of “Doc” to his precious granddaughter!
Guest
Jessica Cumbers
Jessica Cumbers serves as a caseworker on the South Carolina team. She is originally from South Carolina and attended the University of South Carolina, where she received both her bachelor's and master's degrees in social work. She also holds her social work license (LMSW) through the state of South Carolina.
What is The Defender Podcast?
The Defender Podcast is a ministry of Lifeline Children's Services where we seek to equip the body of Christ to manifest the gospel to vulnerable children and families. We hope this podcast will provide encouragement, inspiration, and ways to connect with others who have a heart for the orphan.
Welcome to the defender podcast, a resource to help mobilize and equip the body of Christ to manifest the gospel to orphans and vulnerable children. This podcast is a ministry of Lifeline Children Services, and I'm your host, Herbie Newell. It's Wednesday, March 20, 2024, and Dr. Rick and I are coming to you from Birmingham, Alabama. And, you know, one of the things that we like to celebrate is March for Social Work Appreciation Month, and we have so many great social workers that, are on our team here at Lifeline and, certainly, we want to not only highlight a few of them, but we also want to celebrate the work that so many of our social workers do and the work that they do on behalf of women and children and families. And so today, we're going to actually feature 2 of our social workers, Jessica Cumbers, who comes to us from the great state of South Carolina and McKenzie Bussman, who comes from right here, in Birmingham, Alabama.
Herbie Newell:Jessica serves as, as I said, a caseworker on our South Carolina team. She's originally from South Carolina and attended the University of South Carolina where she received both her bachelor's and master's degree in social work, and she also holds her social work license to the state of South Carolina. And so she went to school in the upstate, but now she works in the low country of South Carolina. So we're so grateful to have Jessica on with us today, but also McKenzie Bussman. McKenzie serves as the program manager of our Philippines program and an international social worker on our Asia team.
Herbie Newell:She graduated for in 2017 from Stanford University with a bachelor's degree in sociology. So I can say go bulldogs. And then she graduated from University of Alabama with her master's in social work, and I can say roll tide. And so, wow, 2 schools that I know and love right there that McKenzie represents. But before we get to hear from these great ladies and, of course, bring on the infamous Dr. Rick.
Herbie Newell:Rick, I want to remind you that facing a wide open career future can be daunting for students. They want to make an impact with their lives but may not know where to start, and that's where we created Preview Day. It gives the it gives students a chance to learn about Lifeline while getting firsthand knowledge about positions and opportunities. Professionals from a wide array of spectrums will be on hand to talk through goals and dreams with each student. Come to preview day to meet our team, share some food, and potentially win a few prizes.
Herbie Newell:On Thursday, April 4, 2024, at our Birmingham, Alabama office, we will host Preview Day for any college student or young professional who's looking to get into child welfare. Visit lifelinechild.org/preview to get more information or to register to attend. And as always, you can see our show notes. And I do wanna put in just one extra, special plug for preview day. Even if you're not a coed or you're not a young professional, this is also your opportunity to know that Dr. Rick will be there.
Herbie Newell:And so if you wanna meet Dr. Rick, get an autograph from Dr. Rick, talk to Dr. Rick for hours. He will be at preview day. And, again, that is April 4, 2024 in Birmingham, Alabama, lifelinechild.org backslash preview. Well, it is the time of the podcast everybody comes to know and love. It's when we get to bring on the infamous Dr. Rick.
Herbie Newell:He is the silver haired, silver tongued one, the one that can cry at a moment's notice, and sometimes we can get him to laugh. So, Dr. Rick, you know, even before we jumped on, you were already starting to get choked up about celebrating our social workers, and we know that that we we care a lot and we care deeply about the team that we have and are are grateful that so many of them are social workers.
Dr. Rick Morton:Yeah, Herbie. First of all, thanks for letting me know that I'm invited to preview day. I was hearing that and it sounded like so much fun. I was like, do we get to come? If we already work here, can we come hang out?
Dr. Rick Morton:Because it sounds like, they're going to have prizes for crying out loud, right? We need to be there. So but no, I told the ladies as we jumped on, and I'm not joking about this. This is my favorite show to do of our entire year. And the reason that I love doing the show is the deep impact that social workers have had on my family.
Dr. Rick Morton:We would not be who we are. We would not be in the place that we are. We would not be in the condition we are. Like, there's so many things. And we just would not be if it weren't for the diligent work of a bunch of social workers who love people very well, who are very well trained and very proficient in what they do.
Dr. Rick Morton:But also, every one of them, people that love the Lord desperately. And, and were doing what they were doing, not just as a profession, but as a ministry. And so anytime we get a chance to be able to highlight social workers in general that are doing what they do for kingdom reasons. And when we get to talk about the great people and talk to the great people that are doing work here, it's just cool. And, and so, Jessica and McKenzie thank you for being here.
Dr. Rick Morton:We appreciate you taking some time to sit down with us and to talk. And, yeah, we just want to have a conversation about you and about the discipline of social work. And, you know, there may be people out there that are listening to us that are thinking about making career choices. And so let's help them. And maybe there's some folks that are out there that are considering stepping into adoption or foster care or whatever.
Dr. Rick Morton:And they don't they don't understand the role of what a social worker does and the role that you play in the process. And so, we just kind of want you to unpack that and we'll talk through it. So, Jessica, how about we start with you? And maybe the way to get started is for you to just tell us a little bit about the beginning of the story. And just talk about a little bit about your journey into social work, Why you felt social work was the right place for you to be?
Dr. Rick Morton:How that happened through the University of South Carolina, and then, how you you know, how the Lord led you to to find your way to Lifeline.
Jessica Cumbers:Yeah. Well, thank you for having me on. I'm excited to be able to share about my journey. It actually started when I was around 10 years old. And it was I didn't know what social work was at the time.
Jessica Cumbers:But, eventually, I figured that out. My parents, at that point, had felt the Lord's call to adopt. So our family began praying about that and entered into the adoption journey. And not long after that, my youngest brother was born and was adopted by our family. So at that point, I felt the Lord's working on my heart and just wanting to move into what that was and how to help families like our caseworker, worked with us back then.
Jessica Cumbers:So fast forward a few years. I'm in high school trying to figure out what to do and how it is how you go about becoming a social worker. At that point, I had figured out what social work was. And, the University of South Carolina had actually just started their BSW program, their bachelor's of social work program. They'd had their master's for a while, but was just in the beginning stages.
Jessica Cumbers:So I went and met with a, counselor there just to see, is this something that I'm really called to do? And is this the path that the Lord has me on? And, felt yes. So I entered into the bachelor of Social Work program and then was able to do the accelerated master's program, since I had started there at a bachelor. So went through that whole process and graduated.
Jessica Cumbers:And well, before graduation, entered into an internship, which I thought was going to be with an adoption agency because that was my goal. I was gonna work with adoptive families. But god had other plans. I ended up in a school social work internship due to some things that fell through with my university for the, internship with the adoption agency. And so ended up being a school social worker for the next many years.
Jessica Cumbers:And I really think it's cool just looking back. I didn't know what God was doing. Like, I had my plan. I was gonna do this. This is the kind of social worker I was gonna be, but ended up in school social work.
Jessica Cumbers:And most of that time was overseas. And I was able, through that time, to work with children, and that I feel like, really equipped me to be able to, now, in my current role as a caseworker with families, to be able to help them walk through the adoption process and prepare them for maybe some of the struggles that they may have with their children. And I have some of the skill sets to be able to help prepare them for them. Additionally, during my time overseas, I was able to volunteer at orphanages and, got to see our vulnerable children that need families firsthand and work with them and be there. So that just really impressed on my heart even more that eventually, if the lord felt that it was right for me to actually be able to work with families who wanted to adopt.
Jessica Cumbers:So, yeah, that's was my journey into social work. I could keep going. I've gone on a long time. So how I ended up at Lifeline? Was that one of the questions to you?
Herbie Newell:Yeah. That'd be great.
Jessica Cumbers:I'm sorry.
Herbie Newell:No. You're great.
Jessica Cumbers:Okay. Yeah. So the overseas, COVID hits, Decide that I need to get back to the US. And wasn't sure exactly what I was gonna do at that time, But still had always felt that I was supposed to be a caseworker working with adoptive families. So reached out to who the lady who was our caseworker when my family adopted my little brother, happens to be Tricia Williamson.
Jessica Cumbers:And she was working with Lifeline as the state director of social services in South Carolina at the time. So I asked her, is there anything I can do for Lifeline? I had looked up, Lifeline's website, read the mission, the vision, and clicked through all the different resources we have on there and felt like I would really love to work for this place. So got to meet with her. And through the Lord's timing, a full time caseworker position was opening up about the time that I was returning to the States, and here I am.
Jessica Cumbers:So just love seeing God's hand in all of it. That's my story.
Herbie Newell:That's awesome. And, you know, I think it's it's, by God's providence that both Jessica and McKenzie grew up in families where adoption was front and center. And so, McKenzie I know for your family, you know, you were able to bring home siblings from China, and now here you are working in the midst of of Asian adoption and in the Philippines, and you've worked with China. Tell us a little bit about your decision to become an international social worker and just what even led you to work on that Asia team and how how it really is kind of a full circle from being a part of your family to now what you're able to do helping other families.
McKenzie Bussman:Yes. Jessica, we have such similar stories. I was just nodding my head throughout that whole, your story. So when I was about 12 years old, my parents, decided to begin the adoption process. Very generally learning about different types of adoption.
McKenzie Bussman:They started out domestically and things just kind of fell through, which led them to international. And my mom was very adamant about not having to get or go too far on an airplane. And little did she know that little Leeli was in China. So we traveled to China and just traveling with my family and being able to to visit the orphanage and to see the children that we would eventually have to leave behind, that stuck with me and was just something I couldn't get out of my mind throughout the rest of high school. Like Jessica, I knew I wanted to do social work.
McKenzie Bussman:I didn't know what it was officially called, and ended up at Sanford and had an amazing professor. And Sanford at the time did not have a social work program, but don't worry, they do now and it's amazing. So I went the sociology route, which was incredible and just learning how to work with other individuals and just broaden my knowledge in that area. And then while I was in college, I was able to live in China, for a period of time and just serve with an organization in China and, just grew my heart for the vulnerable even more. So then came back and did my master's at Alabama.
McKenzie Bussman:Throughout my time, I did internships at Lifeline and just and just knew that I wanted to to pursue this route. And it's just been so incredible. I just I truly feel that the Lord just painted such a beautiful picture through my sister that I never knew would impact my life so much. So, yes. Did that answer your question?
Dr. Rick Morton:That was a great answer. I think, McKenzie, I was just struck when you said that about the experience of leaving the orphanage with your sister. And I think all of us that have that have done that, like how can you not be just really marked and impacted deeply about just the concern for those kids that are still vulnerable and still hanging in the balance. And that's what the Lord's called us to step into. And I think I mean, this is a hard profession.
Dr. Rick Morton:Right? Like, there's like, you you deal in in a lot of hard stuff with, you know, with kids and families and preparation and all kinds of things. And and so, you have to be somewhat motivated and you have to be pretty inspired to stay at this and to continue to do it. And so maybe I wanna ask both of you. But just for you to talk a little bit about what does motivate you, what does inspire you, what does keep you coming back and staying staying in the work.
Dr. Rick Morton:And so, Jessica, maybe you first and then McKenzie and we'll just I mean, we're just talking. So they'll just talk.
Jessica Cumbers:Yeah. My motivation comes from the biblical call. I love that James 127 is one of our theme verses because that's definitely one of mine as well. As well as Isaiah, the Isaiah 117, to bring justice to the fatherless. That was one of the passages that led my parents to adopt back in the beginning.
Jessica Cumbers:And so it's been like a family verse, but then also just a motivating verse continually for me that this is where the Lord has me at this time, and it is a biblical thing to do. So knowing that knowing this is of the Lord is completely motivating for me.
McKenzie Bussman:And I completely agree with you, Jessica, on that. I think too just with my work in the Philippines right now, seeing the 150 children that could be on the database each month. That's what motivates me and just advocating for families for these older children and sibling groups. I I have to see their faces, every month, and it just it can be overwhelming to see that many kiddos on a list. And so just working hard at it every day to to advocate for this program and, to know that the Lord too has a plan for each of these each of these kiddos.
Herbie Newell:So many motivations, and, of course, I love obviously, it's the gospel, that that motivates us all in what we do. And, you know, social work, really, when we look at the profession, has its roots in in a in a biblical profession of going out and helping and caring for, and, you know, the Lord commissioned his people to go and to care. I'd love to hear from both of you. Maybe, McKenzie just start. Just like, what are some moments within your career or or stories that you've had that have just fueled that passion?
Herbie Newell:Like, those moments when you said, hey, through all the hard, through all the difficult, this is this is what it's what what makes it worth it. I'd love to hear from you and then, Jessica, you as well on kinda, where are some of those moments, those stories that have kinda fueled that passion?
McKenzie Bussman:Yes. And I I think too just pointing out that adoption is a complete miracle, in and of itself. And I think a couple of the moments that I have gotten the pleasure of just being a part of is when a child is about to age out of a program. They're about to have to leave the orphanage and be on their own, which is mind boggling to us. And seeing families who have stepped up.
McKenzie Bussman:And we have 6 months or even quicker to get a process done. And, there's just various entities in the adoption process that have to really work out smoothly for things to go right and to see all of that come full circle and this child get to come home within their, within that time frame is just a miracle. And it's something that I'll never forget and I don't take for granted that I just get to be a part of this. Another memory that I have is just China China hosting 2019. This was before COVID hit.
McKenzie Bussman:We had no idea what was coming with that. And we were able to to host around 15 kiddos. And I got to see families who had never considered older child adoption open their homes to these kids, and either advocate for their placement or become their, you know, want to become their forever families. So that those two stories, are just incredible to me and just the the little god winks along the way.
Jessica Cumbers:I love that. Yeah. The things that we get to see in our lineup where we mentioned the heaviness earlier that it can be hard, but just those joyful moments, for sure. For on the domestic side, I think seeing the relationship between the birth family and the adoptive family is a huge thing for me and just, helps me want to just continue on in this and seeing the Lord work in that relationship and just how our families and their gospel centeredness are sharing that with their birth families. Just what a picture that is.
Jessica Cumbers:And then being able to share that with other families who are considering adoption, like, this is what the Lord is doing in this situation or giving examples of that. And then just seeing the smiles on the children's faces that are brought home and on the families as well. Hearing them call their parents, mom and dad, even though I'm not the mom and dad, that still really warms my heart too, in those post adoption visits when I get to go and interact with them. So lots of moments.
Dr. Rick Morton:That's awesome. I don't want to be the dark cloud in the conversation. But we get to adoption. We enter into foster care because there's brokenness, right? We acknowledge that in this place, in the beauty of what we see in it, in the way that God brings families together, there is also that aspect of sometimes we're struggling with the unfairness of it all.
Dr. Rick Morton:We're struggling with the way that people manipulate children and take advantage of their frailty. And so there's certainly an aspect of when we see that we're called to action and we're called to rise up and to do something on behalf of the Lord. And so that all sounds really noble. But in the moment, it's it's just kinda sometimes just hard. And and so, you know, I'd love just as you're facing challenges, especially as you kind of understand that many times those challenges that you're facing are just they're just spiritual warfare.
Dr. Rick Morton:Right? Like, the enemy doesn't want us to do what we're doing. How do you how do you handle the day in and day out challenges and and find, you know, find victory and find a way forward in in the midst of what sometimes is just undeniably hard.
McKenzie Bussman:Yes. And you're so right. It's every day, you you wake up and you don't really know what is gonna be in the email, and just having to to walk through each day with, you know, a hopeful heart with, you know, things that could be going on, in specific situations. But I think for me, it's as a caseworker, I've had to really just fully rely on the Lord. And I think too, working for, Lifeline in a ministry to do social work is huge.
McKenzie Bussman:I always say I couldn't do my job without having the ministry aspect of it. We truly, both the family and me, like, we have to truly rely on the Lord. So for me, that just, you know, spending time to myself, getting up in the morning and going for a walk, starting my day just with the Lord. And like I yeah. Like I said, just full reliance on him, which is is harder.
McKenzie Bussman:It's easier to say, but that has been something that I've had to grow in so much as a caseworker too.
Jessica Cumbers:I fully agree with that. And I would add to that having that supervisor that is trustworthy and someone that you can process through all these things with. I've got an excellent supervisor. And so some of those more challenging cases, I can go to her and just say, hey. This is what I'm dealing with.
Jessica Cumbers:I need some advice. So relying on her knowledge and experience as well and just being able to process through with her and navigate those challenges together versus thinking, oh, I needed to do it on my own. I mean, relying on the Lord, of course. But, having that person to go to has been such a a big piece of handling those challenges. Yeah.
Herbie Newell:And, you know, going back from challenges, you know, those challenges sometimes are are the things that that bring character in those that we're working in. And sometimes it's through the challenges that we're able to see some of the most impact made, and certainly, you know, through the laughter and through the crying and through the hurt and through the pain, we're able to see a lot just really be able to come to fruition in the lives of of those we're working with. You know, as we kind of transition to even those that might be listening, what are some of the most rewarding aspects of of social work? And and certainly, yeah, we're looking at the context of Lifeline, but I know both of you have also had the opportunity to work in social services outside of Lifeline. Just in general, what would you say are some of the most rewarding aspects of the work and of social work?
Herbie Newell:So so, Jessica, I know, you know, you've talked about the school system working overseas. Both of you worked overseas. I'd love for you to start, and McKenzie, you to go and just just talk about those those rewarding moments, that make that make it that make it rewarding, that that that really do give that hope of of what you're doing?
Jessica Cumbers:Yeah. So in the schools working with the children themselves, seeing their growth, that was the most rewarding for me that that made the difference to be able to continue on and seeing, the changes, the good changes that they were able to make and in their character. And, yeah, I think it's just that helpful piece of being able to work individually with people and then also be able to see the results of it of the work.
McKenzie Bussman:Yes. And, you know, with me, even with my time in foster care, just seeing how the children, once once they come into care and, you know, it's incredibly difficult. You're leaving birth family and coming into, either a group home or something like that. Seeing how much they grow throughout this and just seeing too the impact a social worker has on their life. Sometimes you are the most stable thing in the midst of moves and everything like that.
McKenzie Bussman:So I I too just think, you know, realizing that this this career, you are making an impact and sometimes you you won't see the direct impact on, you know, a child's life, for example. But it it has been amazing to see. And, you know, even with our, you know, international families, you know, showing them a file of a potential child and them seeing pictures, and then seeing that picture come into their home and work with them post adoption, you really get to be with this family, through all aspects of the process, which is really cool too. So there are different competencies you will use along the way as well.
Dr. Rick Morton:Yeah. McKinsey for sure. I think, you know, the part of the reality of our experience and our journey with all of the social workers that we worked with in our kids' adoptions, they're kind of part of the family. You know, like, you you become you really do become part of the, part of the fabric of, you know, of who we are. And and so that's that's just a, and it's an incredible privilege for us, to be able to have that kind of connection with, with people that have done so much to be meaningful to us.
Dr. Rick Morton:And maybe the way we kinda wind this conversation up is both of you have done a great job of framing the profession, talking about the joys and some of the tough parts and all that. Well, if there's somebody who's leaning in right now saying, you know, I think I I might be called to do that. That that may be the thing that the Lord has for me. And you were to get the opportunity to sit down with them, you know, maybe maybe just grab a cup of coffee and and give a piece of advice or 2. Jessica, what would you say?
Dr. Rick Morton:And then, McKenzie, you kinda kinda come in and finish us out on that. But, like, what what would you say over that cup of coffee to a to a young high school or college student that's saying, hey, I think I think this is what I'm called to do.
Jessica Cumbers:I would say, yes. This is wonderful work. But remember, it's the Lord's work, and don't rely on yourself. Look to him for the strength, for the wisdom. He it's his will, whatever may happen.
Jessica Cumbers:He's sovereign over all the workings, and you gets to be his instrument in it. So remember that.
McKenzie Bussman:Yes. I agree completely, Jessica. And I think for me too, just completing internships. Getting out there, figuring out there are so many areas of social work. You know, it may be counseling that you wanna do.
McKenzie Bussman:It could be foster care, pregnancy counseling, or international. There are so many areas and even some that I'm not even speaking to. And just doing those internships and really getting a feel for what you may like. Some may involve more contact with the children and some may be, you know, more family contact, that kind of thing, as well. So I think that would be my advice.
Herbie Newell:Yeah. And so, certainly, what we wanna do is we wanna encourage Christian young people to get into social work. It's a great field. We need more believers in this field. We need believers who are going to to stay true to the tenets of social work of helping others, but helping others through the lens of the hope of the gospel.
Herbie Newell:And so if you're a Christian young person and you would like to talk more, we know, for for instance, McKenzie and Jessica would love to talk to you, even further about what it would look like to become a social worker. Also, know that if you wanna try an internship, Lifeline is a great place for internship. And then don't forget again, April 4th, if you're in the Birmingham, Alabama area, preview day, which can help you even see all the many ways that social workers are utilized here through the Ministry of Lifeline. So we're grateful, for McKenzie and for Jessica. We're grateful for this opportunity to come once again on the Defender Podcast.
Herbie Newell:And for the venerable Dr. Rick and I, we're grateful for you listening, and we hope to see you again next week. Thanks for easier for more people to find. For more information on how you and your church can partner with Lifeline, visit us at lifelinechild.org. If you want to connect with me, please visit herbynewell.com. Follow us at Lifeline on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter by searching for Lifeline Child.
Herbie Newell:You can email us directly at info at lifelinechild.org. Beloved, will you allow god to use the gospel to you to impact the life of a child? Please contact us because we are here to defend the fatherless. We'll see you again next week for the Defender podcast.