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In this episode of Chicks in Construction, Mikki and Jessica sit down with licensed general contractor and real estate investor Erika Zimandy of Hilltop GC for an honest conversation about what homeowners really need to know before hiring a contractor. Erika shares her journey from public health into real estate investing and construction, offering a unique perspective from both sides of the renovation world — as both a homeowner/investor and a licensed GC. Together, they unpack contractor red flags, remodeling horror stories, pricing differences between bids, realistic timelines, deposits, permits, inspections, and the biggest myths HGTV has taught homeowners. The episode also dives into the controversial topic of contractors charging homeowners for failed inspections, whether homeowners should buy their own materials, and what upgrades actually provide the best return on investment. If you’re planning a remodel or simply want to avoid expensive construction mistakes, this episode is packed with practical advice and real talk from women working in the construction industry.
00:00 – Introduction to Erika Salgado-Zemandi from Hilltop GC
02:00 – Facebook contractor stories & homeowner horror stories
05:00 – Erika’s background in masonry, public health & real estate investing
07:00 – Starting Hilltop GC and becoming a licensed general contractor
09:00 – How homeowners can identify trustworthy contractors
10:30 – Why contractors using “big construction words” can be a red flag
12:00 – Green flags homeowners should look for when hiring a GC
14:00 – License lending and why it’s dangerous
15:00 – Biggest contractor red flags & overpromising timelines
16:00 – How many contractor bids homeowners should get
17:00 – Why contractor quotes can vary wildly in price
20:00 – Insurance, taxes & overhead: what homeowners forget about pricing
21:00 – Hidden remodeling surprises behind walls
22:00 – The controversial topic of charging homeowners for failed inspections
24:00 – What happens when homeowners request non-code-compliant work
27:00 – Realistic timelines for kitchens, bathrooms & additions
30:00 – Contractor deposits and payment schedules explained
34:00 – Should homeowners buy their own materials?
38:00 – Best remodeling upgrades for return on investment
40:00 – Kitchen upgrades buyers notice immediately
41:00 – Bathroom trends: tubs vs. giant showers
43:00 – What homeowners overspend on during remodels
47:00 – Craziest requests Erika has received as a contractor
49:00 – Biggest HGTV myths homeowners still believe
52:00 – The truth about staged HGTV renovations and furniture reveals
00:00 – Introduction to Erika Salgado-Zemandi from Hilltop GC
02:00 – Facebook contractor stories & homeowner horror stories
05:00 – Erika’s background in masonry, public health & real estate investing
07:00 – Starting Hilltop GC and becoming a licensed general contractor
09:00 – How homeowners can identify trustworthy contractors
10:30 – Why contractors using “big construction words” can be a red flag
12:00 – Green flags homeowners should look for when hiring a GC
14:00 – License lending and why it’s dangerous
15:00 – Biggest contractor red flags & overpromising timelines
16:00 – How many contractor bids homeowners should get
17:00 – Why contractor quotes can vary wildly in price
20:00 – Insurance, taxes & overhead: what homeowners forget about pricing
21:00 – Hidden remodeling surprises behind walls
22:00 – The controversial topic of charging homeowners for failed inspections
24:00 – What happens when homeowners request non-code-compliant work
27:00 – Realistic timelines for kitchens, bathrooms & additions
30:00 – Contractor deposits and payment schedules explained
34:00 – Should homeowners buy their own materials?
38:00 – Best remodeling upgrades for return on investment
40:00 – Kitchen upgrades buyers notice immediately
41:00 – Bathroom trends: tubs vs. giant showers
43:00 – What homeowners overspend on during remodels
47:00 – Craziest requests Erika has received as a contractor
49:00 – Biggest HGTV myths homeowners still believe
52:00 – The truth about staged HGTV renovations and furniture reveals
Creators and Guests
Host
Jessica Abreu
As a social media expert, Jessica has a knack for identifying what makes each business unique and translating that into powerful, engaging content that resonates with clients and customers. From crafting tailored strategies and managing accounts to recording on-site content and boosting engagement, Jessica and her team handle it all so their clients can focus on what they do best.
Host
Mikki Paradis
President & CEO at PDI Drywall Inc. Mikki founded her first construction company, PDI Drywall Inc, in 2005 while she was still a student at NC State. After growing PDI into a multimillion dollar company, she has become an accomplished entrepreneur, speaker, and advocate for innovation in business and leadership. With a passion for empowering others, she has built a reputation as a forward-thinking professional dedicated to driving growth and fostering meaningful connections. Known for her dynamic energy and ability to inspire, Mikki is deeply committed to creating positive change in her industry and beyond. Whether through her entrepreneurial ventures or speaking engagements, she consistently challenges the status quo and encourages others to reach their full potential.
What is Chicks in Construction?
You plan your renovation with excitement, trust your contractor, and hope for the best...until things start going sideways. That’s when most homeowners realize they didn’t know what they didn’t know.
From permits that were never pulled to “contractors” who ghost after demo day, the construction world can feel like a maze of hidden costs and shady shortcuts. Too many homeowners end up confused, overwhelmed, and out of a lot of money.
The Chicks in Construction Podcast is here to change that. Hosted by Mikki Paradis, a licensed general contractor with 20+ years of experience, and Jess Abreu, a homeowner turned construction content creator, this show breaks down real renovation horror stories and teaches you how to protect your time, money, and home.
After building a multimillion-dollar drywall business and helping countless homeowners recover from construction nightmares, Mikki is on a mission to make sure you go into your next project informed, not blindsided. And Jess brings the perspective of someone who’s been in your shoes and now knows exactly what questions to ask.
Submit Your Construction Horror Story: https://chicksinconstruction.com/
Chicks in Construction - 48
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[00:00:00] what she's saying is, "I am the contractor. I bu- I buy it. If it comes damaged, I'm responsible for going back to the material supplier and saying, 'Hey, listen, this was damaged.' If you buy the materials, then you're responsible for calling the supplier and saying, 'Hey, this showed up and it was damaged.'"
Mikki: So that's something to consider- Mm-hmm ... when that's something that you're thinking about. Well, hello, and welcome back to another episode of Chicks in Construction. I'm your host, Mikki Paradise, and this is my illustrious co-host.
Jessica: Hi, I'm Jessica Abreu, and today we have a special guest for you. I would like to introduce you to Erika Salgado-Zemandi.
Mikki: Ooh, she did good. Uh, Hilltop- Mm.
Erika: She
Mikki: said it right, y'all ...
Jessica: Hilltop GC.
Erika: Hi, everyone. My name's Erika Salgado-Zemandi. She did an amazing job at this. I was
Mikki: learning it. Oh, when I saw the name, I was like, "I will not be introducing our guest." Um, but that's not... I'm not really trusted to do that regardless.
Jessica: No.
Mikki: That's not in my, on [00:01:00] my bingo card.
Jessica: Nope.
Mikki: Adulting is hard-
Jessica: It is ...
Mikki: for me. But, so how did you guys meet?
Jessica: So we met on Facebook.
Mikki: As one does. As
Jessica: one does. Um, no, it was crazy. So we are always telling our homeowners that finding somebody on Facebook can sometimes lead to troubles.
Mikki: Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica: So there was this woman who posted in a um, ladies group that she was looking for a contractor to do certain things in her home.
And I put in there, "Well, please make sure that you are finding a licensed general contractor- Yeah ... for the job. If it's over $40,000- Yep ... please make sure that you look it up, um, before you do any construction. Like, check out our podcast- Yes ... Chicks in Construction. Dot com. So that you don't end up like one of our horror stories.
Mikki: Yeah. And- And if you don't follow our advice, then please go to chicksinconstruction.com and write in your horror [00:02:00] story. She didn't say that. Yes. But I thought it.
Jessica: Yes. When people have a horrible story, I say like, "Will you please share that?"
Mikki: Yeah.
Jessica: Yeah. Because we wanna know. Yeah. And we wanna be able to tell others.
Mikki: I'm desperate to go to my neighbor's house with the pool. It is still ongoing. Like, this pool is never gonna be done. It's the pool that never completes, and I'm just like, "Listen, neighbor." Um-
Jessica: Tell me.
Mikki: Tell me all the tea ... I need to know what ha- happened with this, with this pool contractor. So, uh, side, side quest.
Jessica: Sorry. Side quest. We go on a few of those. Sorry about that. So as one does when you post and comment on Facebook, you go through the comments just to see what everybody is saying. And I came across Erica posting that she was a licensed- Yeah ... general contractor, and so I sent her a little m- I slid right in the DMs.
Right. She did. Hi. I did. I'm like, "Hey. I would love to meet you." I
Mikki: love Jess.
Jessica: I have a podcast where I'm the [00:03:00] co-host, and we talk all about construction, and we're Chicks in Construction. Well, you two are Chicks in Construction. I'm just, you know, a homeowner.
Mikki: By proxy, Jess is a Chick in Construction.
Jessica: Yep. So that is how we met.
Um, and then we grabbed coffee one day, and I got to find out more about her. And so now here she is to tell all of you about herself and her company and things that you should and shouldn't do- Yes ... and look for when you're hiring a contractor. So-
Mikki: Yes ...
Jessica: welcome so much. Thank you for being- Thank you ... our guest.
Erika: Thank you for having me. Actually, I had met you before that. Oh! So FYI. Pew,
Jessica: pew, pew.
Mikki: When
Jessica: did you guys
Erika: meet? Not... So there was some kind of meeting or meetup- Oh, yes ... in Fuquay. Um, and so I- Is it the
Mikki: name we shall not mention?
Erika: I don't know.
Jessica: Yes.
Erika: I don't know.
Jessica: Well, we met, but, like, that was what, like, four years ago?
Erika: Yeah. It was the name we shall not mention. But I don't think we actually, like, truly met. I think I just saw you there, but I don't, I don't remember [00:04:00] introducing myself or anything. Mm-hmm. Um, but-
Jessica: It doesn't count ...
Erika: you know. It doesn't count. It doesn't count.
Mikki: Oh, I can meet somebody and make, have, like, an hour-long conversation with them and then not remember it.
It's terrible. It is terrible. Like, I've done that before where I'm, somebody's been like, "Nikki, we've met five times." And I'll be like, "Aw." See,
Jessica: I'll remember someone's face- ... more than I'll remember the name. Oh, yeah. I'll be like, "I know I know you from somewhere." Mm-hmm. The
Mikki: chances I will remember your name are very slim.
Mm. I will remember your face, but the chances that I'll remember literally anybody's name, like Hector and I both are terrible at it. It's, it's great when, like, one person in the relationship is like, "Oh, I'm, I'm a, a whiz with names." Mm-hmm. It's bad when we're both like, "Wait, what?"
Jessica: I don't know.
Mikki: There have been so many times where Hector and I have met somebody, and they were a delight.
And we were just like, "Oh, that girl/person's so great," and they told us their name.
Jessica: Mm-hmm.
Mikki: And then walked away, and we both looked at each other and said at the same time, "Well, what did they say their name was?" And it's like, damn it.
Jessica: We're
Mikki: [00:05:00] terrible at this. Yeah. I don't know what that means about me, but listen, it probably isn't good.
Jessica: It means something. It's
Mikki: probably not great. So how did you get into construction? Like, give us your, your origin story.
Erika: All right. So I'll take it back to when I was a kid. Okay.
Mikki: All right.
Erika: Uh, well, my dad was a, um, a stone, uh, brick mason. Oh, awesome. So he, he had experience working with, uh, general contractors and stuff, and all the horror stories- Oh
from the subcontractor's- Yeah ... perspective.
Jessica: Oh.
Erika: So- Yeah ... there's that part. I got to see the things- Yeah ... that he dealt with and all the troubles that he went through. Yeah. And so, but I was like, "You know, I'm never gonna do this." Yeah. Wiring, construction, blech. Yeah. I don't want to. Blech. Fa-
Jessica: famous last words.
Erika: And so, um- Went to school for public health, uh, with the goal to become a PA.
Mikki: Okay.
Erika: Um, then decided against it. I wasn't gonna spend enough time with my child. Oh, yeah. And so- I [00:06:00] can only
Mikki: imagine.
Erika: Oh, yeah, no. Um, I, I do love, you know, health. I do love p- public health and all that. Mm-hmm. But, um, and so that kind of...
I incorporated that a little bit into m- my next step, which, which was becoming a, um, an investor, a real estate investor.
Mikki: Okay.
Erika: And so I would go in, fix up these houses that were, like, completely destroyed. Yeah. And even people living in them- Oh, wow ... in terrible, terrible situations. Mm. So I was like, "Okay, I guess this is my way to do a little bit of public health in a sense, right?"
To, uh, provide a place that doesn't have mold. Right.
Mikki: Yeah. You know, the
Erika: little things. Mm-hmm. Yes. And so that's how it kinda, i- it all started, and then I realized that if I wanted to scale with j- with, uh, my investments, I had to control a big- Yeah ... portion of it. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Which was the construction, the, um, the general contracting part of it.
Mikki: Yeah. Awesome. That's great. So how long have you been in business?
Erika: general contractor, or as a- Yeah.
Mikki: Well, give us the both.
Erika: Okay. So I started, uh, real estate investments, uh, about four years ago.
Mikki: [00:07:00] Okay.
Erika: Um, and so worked up a, a, a portfolio of, uh, rentals and, and some flips. Mostly rentals. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, but all of these houses, again, they needed a lot- Yeah
a lot of work. Mm-hmm. And so that's where, that's where I've mostly done most of my business. Um, but I was managing these projects myself. Mm. And I'm talking about down to the studs, complete rewires, all of the, you know, the big, um, ticket items.
Mikki: Right. Mm-hmm. Right, right, right.
Erika: And so, um, that's when I kind of decided, excuse me, decided to go ahead and, uh, and get my GC license.
And, and so we've been technically just started.
Mikki: Oh, okay.
Erika: Um, just about a month ago. Oh, wow. That's when we kind of rolled everything out. I've had my license now f- since last year. Okay. But I hadn't really done anything with it- Yeah ... but just do my own stuff.
Mikki: Yeah.
Erika: And so, uh, but the business itself, Hilltop GC, um, we started about a month ago.
Mikki: Oh, wow. Yes. Congrats.
Erika: Thank you. [00:08:00] Thank you. That's awesome.
Mikki: . So it's really cool because you have the experience of being a general contractor, but also of hiring, I'm assuming, a lot of general contractors.
And so it kinda gives you... Like, when you were... We're, we're... We have some questions. So listen, we know, I know, I hear you. When, uh, sometimes when we've had guests in the past, um, we may or may not have given them the opportunity to actually say words. And when I say we- One of us ... I mean me. So this time I was like, "We're not doing that again."
And when I say we, I mean me. We have a script. So we're gonna ask some questions, but when we're, when you're answering the questions, I definitely want you to give your perspective as a general contractor, but also from, like, that investment, you know, you- Mm-hmm ... use a lot of different contractors, a lot of different trades, so your experience from, like, both sides I think is really important.
So you wanna ask the first question,
Jessica: Jess? Yes.
Mikki: [00:09:00] She's like, "Oh, yeah, that's me."
Jessica: Of course.
Mikki: She's not gonna ask herself a question. Jess is gonna do
Jessica: it. I'm going to do it. That's my job. I'm the cohost. Here we go.
Mikki: Here we go. We're doing it.
Jessica: How do homeowners...
Mikki: This is about, um, like, picking a good general contractor, so we kind of have, like, some topics and some questions around that, just so you guys know.
Jessica: All right. So how would homeowners know who to trust? Like, how do you think that you could find a general contractor that you can trust that's going to do the job right?
Erika: Okay. I think a general contractor should have, and, uh, and again, I just started a month ago, so, but, uh, I do have a track record of the projects that I've done before.
Mm-hmm. And so they should have some kind of track record. Um, it's not just about going to get your license and, and calling yourself a general contractor. You have to have some kind of experience there.
Mikki: That's so weird. It feels like something we've said on this show before. Experience. Experience. Hmm.
Like, you don't just wake up one day and decide you're a general [00:10:00] contractor? Huh. Amazing.
Erika: You would be surprised.
Mikki: Yeah. No, we wouldn't. We wouldn't. Un- unfortunately, we wouldn't. It ... We get so many emails about from people that just, "Oh, yeah, this person just woke up one day." So, yes. Yeah. Yeah. That is such great advice.
Erika: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so d- definitely have some kind of track record, um, be able to prove that you have, you know, projects. And also, whenever you are quoting or, or doing an estimate, um, a lot of contractors will try to use big words.
Mikki: Mm.
Erika: And they'll try to use, like, codes and, and of course you should use codes, right?
Right. But th- they'll try to, like, over explain to clients- Yes ... that, um, terms that they may not understand.
Mikki: We're actually getting a lot of those- Mm-hmm ... comments in the Homeowner Horror Stories. And I'm starting to wonder, like, is it a red flag that somebody does not use layman's terms? Like, so m- like, the last four or five Homeowner Horror Stories have all said the same thing, how they just, like, [00:11:00] they were using these big words and these- Mm-hmm
construction terms, and the person had no idea what they were talking about. But they felt insecure to say, "Hey, I don't know what that means," so they just kind of rolled with it. And it seems like it's like a... It's something that contractors do to make themselves seem like they- Better than they are ... they know all the things.
Mm-hmm. And I mean, it's important you do know all the things, but I... It's kind of says to me, all right, if you don't know how to speak to homeowners, I think that's a red flag. If you don't know how to kind of dial the, the, the construction language down to make it more layman's f- term friendly- Mm-hmm
seems to me like that is a bit of a red flag. It's coming up more and more.
Erika: Yeah, of course. It's like going to the doctor, right?
Mikki: Yeah.
Erika: And you sit there, and they're telling you all these big words- Right ... and you're like, "What the heck are these?"
Mikki: Right. Like, I couldn't spell that gun to my head.
Erika: Yes. same kind of same thing.
Um, make sure that you're understanding, the, the, the homeowner is understanding everything and- Yeah ... and a [00:12:00] v- definitely a very clear scope of work.
Mikki: Yes.
Erika: Um, detailed with, excuse me, with everything that- Yeah ... should be in it.
Mikki: Yeah. Oh, yeah. So what do you think are, like, three what, like, what we would refer to as a green flag? Like, yes, this is a good sign when you're, when you're interviewing with a
Erika: Again, going back to a clear scope of work, making sure that they are telling you, um, that, that they are presenting you with a clear scope of work and everything that has to be done.
Um, another green flag, having a license. Yeah. It's
Mikki: the little things, y'all. The licenses. It's the little things.
Erika: Having a license and, and making sure that they are the, the actual... They're not a, um, what do they call them?
Jessica: Qualifying?
Erika: Qual-
Jessica: Oh, no,
Erika: they're- No, they, they are... You know, they... I'm a qualifier- Yeah
for Hilltop GC, right? Yeah. So-
Jessica: But they're not just the qual- Right? Is that what it is? Or they're not-
Mikki: So it's you want to be dealing with the person whose name is on the line.
Erika: [00:13:00] Exactly.
Mikki: Yeah. Yes. 'Cause, like, if, if, if I'm... And, and listen, and I think in bigger general contractor companies, it's probably more common- Mm-hmm
that you're not dealing with the license holder. Mm-hmm. That, I think that happens. But if you've never met the license holder, I think that's a little bit of a problem. I think if the license holder is, like, uh, ch- does, does the books, that's a little bit of a problem. Mm-hmm. So it depends on, like, what that person's role in the company is.
And to, to be fair, I know of a very re- reputable remodeling general contractor, and one of their designers holds their license. Yeah. So she, she's the qualifier. But listen, designing is not, uh, it, child's play. Like, is- No ... when you're, like, a, when you know how to use CAD and you can, like, create these 3D renderings and you're, like, you know enough about construction to be able to put an entire house together in a 3D rendering, I feel like that's a little bit different- Yeah
than somebody that does the books. So it depends on who you're kinda dealing with, but [00:14:00] these are really good points. Yes.
Erika: I, I think I'm more so also referring to, you know, those folks that will lend-
Mikki: Oh,
Erika: yes ... their license out. Yeah,
Mikki: license lending. Oh.
Erika: So yeah, so that's, that's... make sure that you're dealing with the actual company that's doing this- Yeah
and not somebody borrowing- Yeah ... you
Jessica: know-
Erika: Yeah ... their, their license.
Jessica: Yeah.
Erika: So, um- No borrowing ... yeah, green flag. Just make sure that -
Mikki: Yes, that they are
Erika: themselves licensed ... and a red flag if they, if it's not them.
Mikki: Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica: Yeah,
Mikki: yeah.
Jessica: Absolutely. That's a good one. So I feel like when we did those green frags, flags, we kinda got to the red flags too.
To the red
Erika: flags.
Mikki: Yeah.
Jessica: We have all the flags flying, okay, people? We've got red
Mikki: flags. All of them. We've got green flags.
Erika: You got that red flag guy flying in the
Mikki: background. So would you, what would you say is your number one biggest red flag for, like, shady j- for, like, when somebody's picking a general contractor to avoid the shady, what do you think, like, the biggest, like, absolute not is?
Erika: So if I, if I were the clients Yeah. Mm-hmm Okay, as a client, if a general contractor is coming in and, and- [00:15:00] Yeah ... and, and, you know, talking to me, I think it's over-promising.
Mikki: Mm.
Erika: When they're over-promising for, uh, you know ... Oh, yeah, like, and, and their timelines. Sometimes their timelines- Yeah ... can be like, "Oh, yeah, we can definitely get this done in a week," and then, like, three months later- Yeah
you know. They
Mikki: haven't even started. Okay.
Jessica: We're waiting for the materials.
Mikki: That's a good point. Yeah. Timelines. Over-promising. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's a really good point.
Jessica: And how many bids do you think homeowners should get, um, for their projects?
Erika: Um, again, from the other side, I would definitely consider three bids.
Mikki: Yeah.
Erika: Three bids.
Mikki: We say, like, at a minimum, three- Mm-hmm ... but we feel like the secret sauce is four. Because I feel like three gives you low, medium, high- Mm-hmm ... but four gives you that, "Okay, this is what helps me know what low, medium, high is." It's like that equalizer of, like, okay, so it, it gives you a r- a more robust knowledge of numbers.
Now, I will say, I get, we get a lot of pushback on that. People get so mad when we say [00:16:00] that. Um, but, like, I mean, the other thing too is sometimes you have to pay for estimates, and I think you should pay for estimates. I think when you're doing a project for your house and it's, and it's pretty substantial, y- it should be in your budget to pay for estimates.
Because nobody should be working for free. It's, you know, if you know that you're using a, you're, you're, you're interviewing four different contractors, they're all going to spend time to meet with you, to work on your estimate, I think you should be willing to pay, and I think that should be part of your, of your budget.
One of the things that came up on a panel that I was talking at was they were like, "Well, you know, what do we do if, you know, they all charge and the one says, 'Oh, if you use me, we can put this, the, the cost of the estimate towards your project?'" Yeah, that's great. You're gonna go with one that does that, but you're gonna have to pay a couple of people for estimates.
Right. And I think that should just be part of, part of your, your budget. Mm-hmm. That's personal opinion. Um, all [00:17:00] right, so we're gonna move on to pricing with that being said. this is a perfect roll into- ... uh, to the quotes. So why can three contractors' quotes So why can three contractors quote the same kitchen and have way wildly different numbers?
Erika: It could be materials. Um, you know, somebody might be using way cheaper materials than somebody else, so that, that could, uh, be a, a, a drastic difference. Um, and it could also be the quality of work. I mean- Yeah ... some, uh, the more expensive ones, well, not always, but sometimes the more expensive ones, uh, tend to not cut corners as much as- Yeah
the, as the less expensive ones. Mm-hmm. So, uh, definitely, um, you know, some people are just trying to get in there and- Yeah ... get out as soon as possible- Yeah ... and, and make their money, um, without looking into the quality of the job and all that. Mm-hmm. So I think that's why some prices can be different.
Mikki: Yeah. One comment that we [00:18:00] get a lot on Instagram is, oh, everybody goes w- they, they ended up in this situation because they went with the cheapest number. I think it's really important to understand that, um, yes, I think some people can intentionally choose the cheapest number because they don't understand that you get what you pay for- Mm-hmm
especially in construction. Mm-hmm. But I think also sometimes g- people go with the cheapest number 'cause, one, they didn't get multiple bids. So a lot of times, it's very infrequent actually that somebody writes in and they had a horrible experience and they got multiple bids. It does happen. Um, but I would say 90% of our homeowner horror stories, they just went with the first number that they got.
So I think that's- Yeah ... something to note. But I think the other thing is if you don't get multiple bids, then you don't know what's low. Mm-hmm. So some, you know, we just, we just did a story last week of somebody who just wanted to replace her c- her countertops and do a backsplash, and they'd quoted her $17,000, which I thought was crazy [00:19:00] high, but up north, it's probably low.
Like, it just- Yeah, depending where you get it ... it's regional. Depending on where you are, it's re- it depends on the type of materials you select. So how would you know whether something is really low unless you had multiple bids? Mm-hmm. And to your point, a lot of people can find themselves, you know, with these crazy, like, different numbers, and I think it does get really confusing, but I think it's really about that level of detail, too, like, in, in the estimates.
Mm-hmm. How much detail are they giving you? Are they telling you exactly the materials? Are they telling you how much time they're estimating this takes? Are they telling you how much supervision you're gonna have on a project? All of that costs money, so when you go with the lowest number, like honestly, you're rolling the dice, but you're also saying, "Hey, it's fine.
I understand you're not gonna show up on this job. Like, I'm probably never gonna see you again. I'll see the subcontractors you hire, but I'm only gonna talk to you on the phone." So it's one of those things about understanding that you get what you pay for.
Erika: And also, I think, uh, a very [00:20:00] important part of this is how set up is that person's business.
Mm-hmm. For example, um, we could charge, you know, a certain percentage for overhead because our business requires that because we have insurance- Yeah ... because we have all these things that are, that we have to cover on our end, versus somebody could be cheaper because they may not have those things.
Mikki: 100%.
Mm-hmm. So, um- That's
Erika: a really good point ... they're not including that into the, i- into that number. They're
Mikki: not planning on paying taxes. So they're not putting that there. 'Cause you have to think about that, right? Like, we have to pay taxes on every dollar that we make. Mm-hmm. So in my, all of my estimates, I've got the, the percentage that I'm gonna pay in taxes.
We're, I don't work to just pay the government and not have money at the end of the day. So it's like when you hire me, you know I'm gonna pay my taxes, which is, I don't know, to some people important. So that's the other thing is like, you know, the lowest bid, you're- Mm-hmm ... you're foregoing a lot of things, like overhead that covers insurance, it covers taxes, so that's a really good point.
Jessica: Um, what are some common surprises [00:21:00] that show up in the cost of remodels?
Erika: Um, in the cost of remodels, I mean, anything behind the walls. Yeah. Once you start taking those walls out- Yeah ... you're gonna find issues, water damage, termite damage. Yeah. Just we've, we've dealt with a whole lot of stuff, especially, again, with these heavier remodels that we've done.
Um, once you start taking stuff out- Yeah ... in the bathrooms-
Mikki: Oh, yeah ...
Erika: that's a, that's a home- There's always ... that's a whole mess. I feel
Mikki: like bathrooms, like kitchen sinks and, and doors, like entry doors-
Erika: Mm-hmm. Oh ...
Mikki: where water could get in, that's, we always find, like sub-floor damage at a back door or a front door.
Like, there's always something weird at a door.
Erika: Or where the water heater is. Yeah. Oh, where the water heater is. Because, yes. Yep. Yes.
Mikki: Dude, the fact that- In the, in the attic ... some people have their water heaters in their attic- ... is like, why, God? Like, who hated you? All right. This is not on our question, but I feel like I need to ask Something that is happening over [00:22:00] and over and over again in the homeowner horror stories that we're getting is when a general contractor fails an inspection, they turn around and charge the homeowner for the cost to fix it.
Tell me your thoughts on this.
Erika: I don't think that makes any sense. Thank you. Thank
Jessica: you. You heard it
Erika: here. Does- We did not
Mikki: even prep her for
Jessica: that. That's not even a l- that's not even a question on our list. So,
Mikki: uh,
Jessica: thanks. Okay. Tell us more.
Erika: My, my first thought was like, "WTF?" I'm not gonna cuss, I, I promise. I'm not gonna say what I really wanna
Jessica: say.
You're fine. You're fine.
Erika: Joe
Mikki: will bleep it out if it's a bad one.
Erika: But no, I mean, it's not the customer's responsibility. Right. Uh, that is completely on the general contractor to get, uh, you know, if it's something that they've subbed out or- Yeah ... um, or some other trade, electrical, whatever, they have to fix it.
Yeah. Mm-hmm. They're responsible for fixing it. Ultimately, if their subs don't fix it, then it's on the general contractor. Yeah. They have to find a way to, you know- Yeah ... to get it, to get it, uh, fixed. But [00:23:00] ultimately, it's not on the client. There's no way I would charge a client for that.
Mikki: I agree. And I also feel like th- we need to come up with a term, it's like some sort of double-dipping.
Because, like, in reality, as a trade, I don't expect to get paid. Like, if I do something that causes you to fail an inspection and then I, and I have to fix my work in order for you to pass, I know that I'm not getting paid to do that work because I should've done it right the first time. So I know in order, if I wanna do work with you again, I have to come and fix that for free.
Mm-hmm. So when a general contractor turns around and says, "Oh, hey, hey, homeowner, it's gonna cost $3,100 to fix this," I feel like it's a total scam because they know they're not paying that subco- that sub that they hired. No. That sub's coming back to fix it so that they can get their next job. Like, they
So it's, it's a total scam, and yet e- every, I think, like, every single one for the past, like, six or seven podcast shows-
Joe Woolworth: Yep ...
Mikki: have been-
Jessica: Yeah, people must hear
Mikki: it and be like, "" They fail the inspection. "That
Jessica: happened to me, too."
Mikki: Yes. [00:24:00] Yeah. And they turned around and they told me I needed to pay for it. Mm-hmm. And th- here's what I'm just saying, we're saying absolute no.
And this is so triggering to people on the internet. It
Joe Woolworth: is.
Mikki: They go crazy. Because I feel like this is a way that a lot of shady general contractors have been making their money is every single time they fail, turning around to the homeowner and saying, "Oh, okay, now it's gonna cost this much." Mm-hmm. And th- the answer is, no, you should've done it right the first time.
Let me know when you've passed that inspection.
Erika: Yeah, no, there's no way. There's no way.
Mikki: That is-
Erika: I can't believe people are actually doing that.
Mikki: Yeah.
Erika: But also, it also depends, and what if the homeowner- is adamant about something that, you know, that you know isn't gonna pass inspection. Like, what if, what if they- We haven't talked about that
yes. What if they ask you for something? Like, what do you do then?
Mikki: You
Erika: know?
Mikki: I feel like we... Well, what do you do? I mean, I, I could answer it, but you tell me since you're the guest on the show.
Erika: I, as a... I mean, I wouldn't do it. If it's not up to code, I would not do it.
Mikki: Thank you. Mm-hmm. And that's, th- so that's the thing, right?
Mm-hmm. Like, we've talked about, like, hey, I think in the last episode we talked, just like if somebody's got a gun to your [00:25:00] head. No homeowner, I think, is gonna push that hard- Mm-hmm ... for you to do something that, that's wrong. However, if you did make that contractor's life impossible until they did something, and they've told you 1,000 times that this is not gonna pass inspection.
Mm-hmm. And then it doesn't pass, well, yeah, then homeowner, you're paying for that.
Jessica: And if I was the
Mikki: contractor- But the whole thing is, I wouldn't do it ...
Jessica: no. But, like, I feel like if the contractor felt like they, they had to do it because, like, the homeowner was pushing and pushing and pushing- Yeah ... write a contract that says, "I'll do this for you.
I am telling you- That's a really good point ... it doesn't pass inspection. If-
Mikki: When you make people put things in writing, it changes the whole vibe ...
Jessica: and if it doesn't pass inspection and we have to redo it, you're the one paying- Yep ... for it-
Mikki: Yep ...
Jessica: ma'am, then- Or
Mikki: sir ...
Jessica: or sir. I mean, it's g- Let's be honest. It's gonna be- It could be
either
Mikki: one.
It could be either one. It's funny because, so in drywall, especially in what we do in multi-family construction, you have to hang drywall from the top down because it's about load, [00:26:00] um, like how the load disperses on the, on the floor. So when, um, like, trusses sit, they're kinda like this. And then when the load gets put on them, it goes like this.
Jessica: Okay.
Mikki: So if you hang from- She's
Jessica: doing a little teepee for
Mikki: those of you- I'm doing a little teepee with my fingers ... who can't
Jessica: see ...
Mikki: k- kind of imagining, like, something flattening out. So when you hang the drywall bottom up, the ceiling boards, as you p- as you load the drywall on the floor above and then you hang the, it on the walls- Mm-hmm
the ceilings will go like this, and it will pop every joint in the ceiling floor on the first floor, like, as you go up. Oh. So the only, the only- That does not sound good ... ceiling that won't have that problem will be the top floor because it's not getting any load above it. Mm-hmm. I've never hung bottom down.
We only hang top down because when a contractor comes to me and says, "You need to hang from the bottom up," I then provide them with a letter that they have to sign saying, "Hey, if you, if you do this, um, we're not gonna fix all the popped seams on the floor. We're not gonna warranty the ceiling." Absolutely [00:27:00] nobody signs that.
Yeah. And they all hang from the top up, like- Mm-hmm ... top down. Top down. Like, it's just how it goes. So yes, that's a really good idea, being like, "Hey- This isn't gonna pass inspection if you're... But to be perfectly honest, I don't think I would do it. I think, like, I- And
Jessica: most contractors probably wouldn't, but, like, if you were in,
Mikki: like, a million-dollar home Yeah, I think most, most responsible contractors would just be like, "No."
Like, we had a situation where somebody approached us once, and they wanted us to do a renovation, and it was a major renovation, without pulling permits. And I was like, "Nope. I'll lose my license. Absolutely not." Mm-hmm. So, like, that's the thing, is, like, I'm not gonna do something that, that I know is gonna fail inspection.
Mm-hmm. I don't care how bad you want it done. Um, but I guess for the contractors that are more people-friendly That's a good one.
Jessica: Or, like, if they're just, like... 'Cause I know that there are some homeowners that are just very particular about things- Yeah, that's a nice way to put it ... that they, they might must have.
Um, all right, so let's talk about timelines. What is a realistic timeline for a kitchen, a [00:28:00] bath, an addition, or, like, when you're getting the whole house? Mm. Like, what is, what is realistic for each of those?
Erika: I mean, it depends on the, on the square footage and how big and, and all that. Each project's gonna be different.
But, you know, you're talking about a month, month or two- Yeah ... um, to get something like that done. Um, but- An addition,
Mikki: way more.
Erika: Yeah, yeah.
Mikki: Like- Absolutely ...
Erika: like a kitchen remodel Multiple months. Yeah, like a, like a kitchen remodel, maybe, like, a, like, bathroom. Um, but if you're talking about an addition, I mean, you have to go through inspections, you have to, you know, the whole- Yeah
the whole process, the whole permitting process, inspections and all of that, so that takes a while. Um, so several months into that.
Mikki: Yeah. What do you think about guaranteed timelines? Like, does that make you nervous when somebody... Or you did talk about that. You were like anybody that over-promises on the schedule.
Erika: Yeah, so guaranteed time, anything could happen. I mean- Yeah ... weather. You can't control some of the Right. Yeah. So anything can happen. And, and, uh, as long as there's clear communication, there's, you know, there's constant communication with the clients, um, [00:29:00] you should be good. But obviously make it reasonable.
Yeah. Like, a reasonable timeline. Don't, don't say it's gonna take you 10 months to, to do a- Right ... a kitchen remodel. To, yeah. That's not reasonable.
Mikki: No, yeah. I agree.
Jessica: Nor would anybody wanna hire someone-
Mikki: Oh, my God ... to come
Jessica: do- Like,
Mikki: 10 months Don't live in that
Jessica: house.
Mikki: Yeah. No, and, and what's sad is- Next ... a lot of, I think almost all of our Homeowner Horror Stories, not a single one of them have met the schedule.
No. I think there was really only one where it was delayed, but it was 'cause the guy wasn't planning on getting permits, and she kind of insisted, and it, it slowed things down a little, which kind of made getting permits sound like the problem. Right. But the problem was that permits weren't in, like, factored in in the first place.
Mm-hmm. So, like, yes, it did slow things down, because doing the things the right way can sometimes do that. Um, people don't cut corners- For funsies. I mean, I think f- some people do. But, like, there's a reason people get into habits like that. Mm-hmm. Because they, they did pull permits once, and it to- [00:30:00] cost the job 10 extra days or 20 extra days or whatever it was because you have to call the inspection in.
The inspector has a couple of days to come out. Then they, they, they could fail you. So it's one of those things where it's like, eh, it could go either way. So listen, now we're gonna get into my favorite part, and that is money. So what, what is your deposit rule for your company?
Erika: So right now we're doing a, and it may seem a little bit high for some, um, but it, it's a 40/40/20.
Mikki: Okay.
Erika: So 40 up front because materials are expensive. Yeah. And it, it obviously depends on the type of project as well. Um, and, uh, then we do halfway, 40, and then at the end once everything's completed, it's, it's the 20%. Um, now we may change it as we go along, but so far it's worked out for us.
Mikki: I will be honest.
We do not recommend people pay over a 20% deposit.
Erika: Mm-hmm.
Mikki: Now, I think it's for a lot of reasons. I ... To be fair, [00:31:00] obviously you guys are just starting out. Yes. So I think, like, it's fair to say we, you, like, you guys are growing up to having more cash flow. But one of the things we've seen is when anybody asks for more than 20%, it, it just, the stories that we get, it does not end well.
Now, obviously we're getting a very biased subset. Mm-hmm. Like, people have already had a bad experience, and so when they're writing in, like, we're, we're kind of queuing it up to us only getting stories about people having bad experiences. Um, so- And most of those are 50 or more.
Jessica: Oh, yeah.
Mikki: Yeah, yeah. 50, 50,000 or more?
No, 50%. Oh, 50% or more. Okay.
Jessica: 50% or more deposits.
Mikki: Yeah. I mean, we've definitely ... Like, I think we just did one, and it was like they wanted 70%. It wasn't a huge contract amount, so- Mm-hmm ... like, what they were asking for was almost the entire total. Um, so I just, I wanted to mention it because we do always talk about 20%.
But I think what's important, like, a- I'm [00:32:00] sure your contract has a lot of very, like, it, your contract is very clear-
Erika: Yes, yes ...
Mikki: what, what kind of language do you guys have, like, in your contract about, like, for the payment schedule?
Erika: I mean, uh, there is that, if we can put a date to it, we, we will.
Mikki: Okay.
Erika: Um, but again, dates kind of shift a little bit.
Yeah But I, we try not to make it too vague, make sure that, that it's very specific-
Mikki: Okay ...
Erika: um, about it. And it also depends, the 40/40/20, it depends, for example, if I, if we're gonna do, like, a deck that's gonna take us a week to do.
Mikki: Yeah.
Erika: Um, it, you know, you have to buy all of your material front- Mm-hmm, yeah
so that kind of covers that. Um, but if we're doing a, like, a big renovation that's gonna take months, of course we're gonna be v- we're g- we work with our, you know- Yeah ... we'd be willing to work with our clients as far as that. Um, but yeah, no, I think it's a very good point that you made, no more than 20%, because a lot of people will- Yeah
run away with that money.
Mikki: Yeah. No, that's the hard part. But she will not. She will not. We would never let her on the show
Erika: if she- You, you guys know where to find me.
Jessica: Yeah,
Mikki: [00:33:00] that's right. We, we will find you. Yes, 100%. And I think that's, that's something that happens as with experience, but what we've, what we were, like, we started out not sure what a fair deposit was.
And after just, what, almost two years of the podcast, we're like, "Okay, we haven't yet seen a 20% deposit end badly." Um, and w- one thing that was really interesting is we had somebody on the show once that said her, she charged 50% deposit, which was, I was, um, I almost swallowed my teeth. I'm not gonna lie. Um, and I, when we asked her what her reason behind that was, she said because the homeowner needs to have skin in the game, and I was like, "The homeowner owns the home."
That's all the skin- All the skin ... they need. so- They
Jessica: have all the skin in the game ...
Mikki: what I like about this is you're not saying, "Hey, we want 40% because the homeowner needs to, you know, to have skin in the game." You're saying, you know, "We're asking 40% because it helps co- cover the cost of materials." And that actually we do make some concessions for- Mm-hmm
like, [00:34:00] in, in our 20% rule. Yes. It depends on what, you know, like we had a situation where I renovated a kitchen and we had to buy the cabinets up front.
Erika: Mm-hmm.
Mikki: So in situations like that, the, the, the 20%'s not gonna cover the cabinets, so it's a 20% plus the cost of certain materials that have to be ordered in advance.
Mm-hmm. Is there anything, because one of the things we have talked about with our audience is the importance of, like, protecting yourself. So, like, is there a, would you allow your- your clients to pay for the cabinets? So like if, if a client was really hesitant to say, "Ugh, I don't know about paying this plus, you know, th- this amount is large," would you say, "Okay, listen, I'll give you the number to my cabinet supplier.
Just pay for the cabinets yourself. That way the money's not exchanging, you know, hands into my hands." Like, would you be okay with that or do you f- is, is, like what's the, the hold up if there is one?
Erika: Um, I would, I would be willing to do that. Okay. Um, as long as they, you know, [00:35:00] there's something signed that I'm not responsible for the materials-
Mikki: Okay
Erika: um, for that specific- Yeah ... material that they get, and they have to- That's a good point ... and they have it on site on the time that we need it.
Mikki: Oh, that's, that's a- Yeah ... really good point. So- That's
Jessica: important. Yeah. So you cannot- Yeah ... not order it until the day before and then be like, "Uh."
Mikki: That's a really good point.
So I think that is where a lot of people are hesitant to allow... 'Cause what we found is homeowners that have been burned, which listen, there's a lot. Mm-hmm. Um, they're hesitant to even remodel their house because they've had such a bad experience, and so we're kinda trying to come up with like ways for people that have had bad experiences to mitigate that level of risk that they feel.
Mm-hmm. So s- one of them is when, you know, like when you have a large piece of equipment or like the cabinets or whatever that has to be purchased in advance, if you purchase them yourself, then you own them. So if the c- Mm-hmm ... if the contractor ends up walking- ... it's fine because you paid for them, so it, like they can take your material.
Mm-hmm. I mean, they can, but that's theft. [00:36:00] So that, it's cool that you're like, "I would be willing to with these caveats. They need to be here on the, on this time, and I'm not taking responsibility if they're damaged." And that's something for our audience to, to, to be aware of. Like when you pay the contractor The contractor, if they're responsible, because how many times have we had stories where, where the contractor damaged the equipment or damaged the materials- Mm-hmm
and then turned around and told the homeowner to pay for it? Mm-hmm. Yeah. But what she's saying is, "I am the contractor. I bu- I buy it. If it comes damaged, I'm responsible for going back to the material supplier and saying, 'Hey, listen, this was damaged.' If you buy the materials, then you're responsible for calling the supplier and saying, 'Hey, this showed up and it was damaged.'"
So that's something to consider- Mm-hmm ... when that's something that you're thinking about. Mm-hmm. I
Jessica: love that,
Mikki: though.
Erika: I mean, as an investor, I buy all my materials.
Mikki: Yeah.
Erika: So I, you know, I have everything scheduled out. I have- Yeah ... uh, y- I make sure that, that the guys have, um, they're, they're gonna be doing the work, they have [00:37:00] everything that they need to do that work.
Yeah. Mm-hmm. And so I understand the homeowner from that perspective of having that control over their materials, but if it's gonna be something that, um, that they're trying to purchase that's gonna delay us for whatever reason- Yeah ... or then, you know, it's, it's kind of like we gotta take care of it.
Mikki: Mm-hmm. Yeah, another thing, too, is it, like, depending on how many kitchens and/or, like, whatever, materials are, that, that a, that a contractor buys a lot of, they're gonna get a better price on. Mm. So the reality is we sell millions, we purchase millions of dollars of drywall a year. The chances that you're gonna be able to go to a Home Depot or a Lowe's or wherever, even to my supply yard, and get the kind of pricing that I'm getting on drywall is 0%.
It's 0% that a, that a, a homeboy or a- Mm ... home gal is gonna walk in and get the same pricing that I... It's not gonna happen. I buy too much. Mm. So that's one thing to consider, too. Are you missing out on a potential discount [00:38:00] of, of materials if you go and you buy them yourself? Mm. Now, in a small remodel, I would think no, but if it's a pretty large remodel, that's also something to consider as well.
Jessica: It's just easier just to have the contractor do it.
Mikki: It is, but if you have trust issues- Yes. Yeah ... that's one way where you can kinda grab a little bit of that control back. And like, same thing, I, like you, I buy all my own materials because I have that kind of connection where we can get good pricing. We can negotiate our pricing down 'cause we're in the industry.
So it's, it's, it's a double-sided coin. Mm. All right. So we're gonna move on, to design and value.
Jessica: Ooh. Go ahead. Do you wanna do the first one? Sure. What upgrades bring the biggest ROI? Ooh. Which is return on investment, guys. Return on investment.
Erika: So, um, I've dealt with a lot of appraisers.
Jessica: Mm. Ah.
Erika: Uh, being that, you know, we do this- In the investment world. Yeah, yeah ... in the investment world, um, kitchens, [00:39:00] bathrooms, definitely. Uh, and, and some outdoor areas could also, um, be a really good one, but, uh, but definitely kitchens is probably, like, one of the- Is there,
Mikki: like, any, is there, like, one thing in a kitchen that you're like, "Do this every time," and it's, it's guaranteed to hit?
Erika: I mean, it has to look aesthetically pretty, but also- Yeah ... because when a, for example, for me, when somebody goes to buy one of the houses that I've done, um, the first thing they're gonna go look at is the kitchen- Mm-hmm, yeah ... and, and, and, uh, make sure that it looks nice- Yeah ... and it's something that's gonna be functional for them.
Um, but cabinets is a big one.
Mikki: Yeah.
Erika: Um, and just m- the, the countertops, all that stuff- Yeah ... all the
Mikki: finishes. We had a realtor/GC in once that said that when you, like, if you have one of those split sinks- Mm-hmm ... if you, if you rip out the split sink and you just put in, like, the, the one, the one-
Erika: Kind of the farmhouse one?
The,
Mikki: well, farmhouse, but not necessarily like farmhouse. Mm-hmm. But yes, like the one where it's just- Just the big [00:40:00] sink,
Erika: yes ...
Mikki: a giant sink. She was like, "Every time," 'cause she was, she's working more on, like, the this person's trying to sell their house, they wanna get the best, you know, amount of money when they sell it.
And she says, "Every single time it will go at, at or above asking just by swapping out the sink."
Erika: Mm-hmm.
Mikki: And I'm just like, "Damn, that is impressive." Yeah. It's one of the things you would not think about. You're just like, "Oh, the sink?" But now that I think about it, I'm like, "Yeah."
Erika: I mean, lighting and plumbing finishes as well.
Mm. Um, people like to see, whenever they go into that kitchen, they like to see that, like, the nice- Oh, yeah ... uh, faucet- Yeah ... and all that.
Mikki: That's true. It's so funny. So one of my neighbors several houses down years ago renovated their house, and I think it was, like, a, it was, like, a flipper that did it. And, uh, oh, my God, so they went with gold finishes, like the- Like shiny gold?
The faucets. Well, they didn't match each, each piece of, they didn't match the same gold. So there was, [00:41:00] like, champagne gold, and then there was, like, satin gold, and then there was, like- Oh, my- ... bright in your face gold. God. And I was like, "What have you done?" It was so bad. The people who ended up buying the house gutted it.
They were just like, "This is terrible." It was a- Oh, my God ... it was a newly renovated house, and it was done so badly that the people who moved in them were like, "This is gonna cost $100,000." Oh my gosh. The
Jessica: person who did it must have gone to, like, the sale s- aisle at Home Depot- It like, it, it felt- ... and was like, "These are all gold.
Mikki: It's fine" ... very much like they bought whatever was on sale. Like, they weren't the same brand. They weren't the same sheen. Oh my God. They were not even the same color of gold. Mm. And I was like, "What have you
Jessica: done?" Now, how about in the bathroom? Are you, are you still doing, like, shower/tub situations, or is it more just, like, the big- shower and forgetting the tubs
Erika: So because, uh, from, from my investor perspective- Mm-hmm
um, I'm [00:42:00] going in more for, like, the, the first time home buyers, kind of like- Mm-hmm ... a lower entry point. Mm-hmm. So we're still doing the tub. We're still doing- Yeah ... you know, the, the tiled, uh, j- showers or, um, so we're still doing all of that. But if I'm gonna go into a homeowner and, you know, obviously whatever they wanna do- Yeah
uh, typically it's go- it's looking like a freestanding tub with like a- Oh, 100% ... huge shower.
Mikki: Yes. I can't live without my tub. I know that it's a thing that- I want my tub gone ... most grown-ups don't take a bath tub. No. They, they don't take a bath, but that's all I do. I take a bath. That's, I'm, somebody was like, "You sh- you must've been French in a past life."
I must've been the, the, the King of France. The Frenchiest. I was as French as the French get, 'cause I'm still here for a bath. So when people rip their baths out because they want a bigger shower, I'm like, "That's a crime."
Jessica: Oh, no, I'm like- It's
Mikki: a crime against humanity.
Jessica: I can't wait to get rid of mine.
Mikki: Jess is like, "I'm working on it actively.
Please like and subscribe."
Jessica: Like and subscribe- So Jess can get rid of- ... so [00:43:00] I
Mikki: can get rid of- ... her bathtub.
Jessica: Please.
Mikki: That's amazing. Okay, so what do homeowners overspend on-
Erika: Ooh ...
Mikki: in a remodel?
Erika: Ooh, that's a good one.
Mikki: I know. This is a spicy question.
Erika: Yeah. What do they overspend on? I mean, I know everybody wants for it to look aesthetic, I mean, the, the aesthetic process of it.
But, um, oh man, that's a hard one. I know.
Mikki: And
Erika: I think-
Joe Woolworth: It might be
Erika: because- In my mind it's not like overspending it if you're enjoying it.
Mikki: That's a good point. I think it depends on what the purpose of the remodel is. If this is like, like my house in North Hills, I'm gonna die in that house, so anything I do is, like, for me personally.
It's not like, oh, I'm planning on selling it one day. So my first thought was depending on what you're doing it for- Mm-hmm ... I think that drives. Like, if, if you're doing it 'cause, like, this is the house I'm gonna die in, I don't think [00:44:00] there's anything. If you want
Erika: it- Mm-hmm ...
Mikki: and you can afford it, do it. But if it's, if it's something where it's like we're doing this to try to sell the house to get the most amount of money out of it, I think the thing that people overspend on is really personal touches.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like, you love a very specific type of brand of whatever appliances. Just because you love a bajillion dollars of appliances does not mean that, that the person coming in behind you is going to. So I think it depends on what- what you're remodeling for. Yeah. Like, if you're doing it for yourself, like, do you, boo.
Do you.
Jessica: Yeah.
Mikki: But if you're doing it to sell it, then y- it's like you have to kinda consider, like, the person that's coming behind you.
Jessica: Wanna know what I always spend too much money on?
Mikki: What would you spend too much
Jessica: money on? The, the detailed tile.
Mikki: Oh, yeah?
Jessica: Oh, yeah. 'Cause like, I walk into places and I'm like, "Ooh, this is so pretty."
Oh. And it's like the littlest, tiniest- Dude ... pieces of tile.
Mikki: Tile can cost you a majillion dollars.
Jessica: And so, like, I know [00:45:00] that you don't need these cute little pieces of tile, and like, to make it all pretty.
Mikki: Don't need it, but I
Jessica: want it. But I like it. I- But I have a husband who is-
Mikki: Absolutely not ... is no. Brad is like, "We don't even need tile.
We can just put up-" "... like, we can do a good, good coat of paint on it and it's fine. We can wipe it down." The
Erika: peel and stick
Mikki: t- stick tile. Yeah. Oh, Brad would 100% put peel and stick tile up. Uh, if it was affordable.
Jessica: Yeah, I, even that I wouldn't be able to have the pretty kind. Oh, no. It would have to be the...
Mikki: Like, I saw this tile and it was Carrara, it was like the hexagon Carrara marble, and the grout- Mm-hmm ... was more tile, but it was gold. So the- Ooh ... I was like, "Stop my beating heart." And then they told me how much it was and I was like, "Never mind." Thank you. It really- Like,
Jessica: seriously ... it really stops
Mikki: that time.
Tile can, tile can destroy your budget, which is why we have a lot of designer friends that don't encourage their [00:46:00] clients to go to the tile place. Mm. They're like, "Come to my office and I will present you with options." Here
Erika: are the four options
Mikki: you have. Because if you go into the tile place, the budget just got blown.
Jessica: Yep. It's me. It's because of me. It's
Mikki: Jess. Jess is the problem. I'm the problem.
Erika: And, and yeah, and that's why that question stumped me a little bit because it's, it's kind of like if you enjoy it and if you want it- Right ... in your house- Yeah ... go ahead and do it. Then do it. Um- If you can
Mikki: afford it, do it ...
Erika: but in my, one of my investment properties because they are first-time, kind of like first-time- Yeah
home buyers, I'm not gonna go and put like marble on- Yeah ... on something that, you know, that it, I'm not gonna get the return on. Yeah. And so I'm just gonna look at the comparables in the area. What are the houses selling, um, what, you know, what price are they selling for, what are the m- materials that are being used in those- Yeah
in that area, and I'm gonna base it on that.
Mikki: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I think if you're ever planning on selling your house, like, you have to pay attention to, you don't wanna be the most expensive house in the neighborhood unless you're planning on dying in it, um, because you're never gonna be able to sell it. If, if you overdo your house- Mm-hmm
[00:47:00] you're ne- well, you can sell it, but you're not gonna get the amount of money that you put into it back. Yeah. And there are certain things that you just, the return on investment takes a really long time, like swapping out your windows. It's really important for like the s- the safety of your home, for the, for the, you know-
Jessica: Energy efficiency
Mikki: energy efficiency of your home to have good windows, but they spicy priced. And so like we- Mm-hmm ... we swapped out our windows like 10 years ago and- You know, our windows are great, and our, our electricity bill is mildly affected by it. But, like, it's it's gonna take a long time for, like, the, that value to, like- Mm-hmm
be recouped. All right. Totally. So let's move on to
Jessica: the fun- This fun segment. Yes,
Mikki: I was like- ... let's get to the fun. All right. So- What's the craziest request you've ever gotten?
Jessica: The craziest request I've ever gotten?
Mikki: From, like, a homeowner or a client, or even, like, somebody buying one of your investment properties.
Erika: Um, honestly, lately it's been, "Can I, can I [00:48:00] use your license to build my house?" Oh, my God.
Jessica: Absolutely not.
Mikki: No. The
Jessica: answer is no. Wow.
Mikki: You cannot.
Erika: Can, uh, can you pull the permits, and I'll take care of the rest?
Um- What? No, no, not gonna happen.
Mikki: Interes- so-
Erika: Is that crazy?
Mikki: That is crazy. No, that- That- 100%, even Joseph says that's crazy I'm
Jessica: like, oh, my God. And can we have those lists of contractors who are looking for it?
Mikki: I ju- I'm like, I don't even know what to say to that 'cause I'm like, so I've had my general contractor license for, like, I don't know, like, a decade, and I don't think I've had a single person be like, "Hey, can you just pull the permits?"
Well, probably because you're more commercial. I think they know one I'm
Jessica: more in
Mikki: commercial. And
Jessica: she's in residential. Mm-hmm.
Mikki: Yeah, but I think also they know that I would be like, "Do you wanna die?" They
Jessica: know that you have that gun.
Mikki: They know I'm crazy. And they're just like, "That's not one to mess with." So I'm like, well.
Jessica: But wow,
Mikki: that's a big one. That's wild.
Erika: Yes.
Mikki: Yes. And I, I'm, I, I, part of me is like, I get it, but at the other [00:49:00] hand, it's like, so, so my, the time that it took me to study and to pass this test- Mm ... that's of no value to you. Like, even if they're willing to pay to use your license, it's like, "No, why don't you just pay me to be your general contractor?"
Erika: Yeah, they're not trying to pay that percentage. That's wild. They just, you know, they just wanna pay, like, a, a flat fee for, for me to pull the permits, and then they can... Now, they do have some experience. I don't know them like that. Yeah. But they do have some experience in the construction world, but I will still not do it,
Mikki: no.
Well, if you have experience, go get your license. Like, come on. Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm. That's, that's annoying. Mm. All right. This one is one that gets under my skins. Uh, what's your biggest HGTV myth? Like, what is it that, that everybody's like, "Oh, I saw this on HGTV, and it costs $2," and you're gonna be like, "I'm gonna throw punch you."
Erika: I was gonna say people, like, I was gonna, and, uh, this is totally not, like, serious saying, but I was like, every time I [00:50:00] wa- I used to watch HGTV- Oh, my God ... I used to see people, like, jumping into the drywall- Oh ... and just,
Mikki: like,
Erika: breaking it. And I've always thought, I was like, where are the studs? Like, for real.
Mikki: You're like, that's not how that works.
Erika: Do
Jessica: not try that at- Home ...
Mikki: well, 'cause, like, y- she's 100% right. They'll build false walls and put drywall up so people can run through them, so it's like a dramatic TV moment. But that, she's right, where's the studs? Because it's, they didn't put the studs in on purpose so that somebody could go through the wall and not get hurt.
And that's like that level of like, 'cause I don't know if Jess gave you the rundown. I almost twice had a T- HGTV show. Mm. And the, we, the, the last one, we actually went so far as like we filmed the pilot, so like the whole crew came from California, and it was this whole thing. And th- they said TV magic so many times, and I was like, "No, no, no.
There's no magic. This is, we want people to see what it really takes, and how long it takes, and how much it actually costs." And they were just like, "Oh, no. Nobody wants to [00:51:00] see that." And I'm like, "No." They need to. We the contractors want to see that. We want people to be telling people the truth so that they know what to expect when the people who are just watching, the audience- Mm-hmm
goes out and tries to hire contractors. Mm-hmm. That's, if you say Chip and JoJo in my presence- ... my, my v- vein will pop. That's my blood pressure vein, and it will pop.
Erika: And also, another thing, it's whenever they move walls, uh, take down walls, and, you know, um, moving walls are ex- is expensive. Yes. Like, it's not just like a, a small thing.
It's like you have to make sure, you have to l- you have to know that it's not load-bearing- Yeah ... or the engineer has to come out. So all these things, all these, uh, changes that they make- Yeah ... they make it look so easy, but it's not. Yeah. Yeah.
Mikki: Yeah. They
Jessica: just take the elevation, and like, "We're just gonna move this-
Erika: Yes
Jessica: over here."
Mikki: Yeah, and some like screen comes up and just shows the wall being moved, and it's like, "And that only costs $500." And I'm like- Liars ... "Not in reality." I think that's the part that [00:52:00] makes me the craziest is, one, the staging of HGTV shows. Mm-hmm. And that, they don't get to keep that. So, um, specifically, the, the Fixer Upper.
Um, J- Joanna Gaines is obviously a frickin' baddie when it comes to design, interior design. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, she'd stage these houses, and it would be like, oh, my God, this is amazing. They'd film, take all the pictures, and then come and take all the stuff out. And if the people wanted to keep any of the furniture, they had to pay like exorbitant amounts of money.
Jessica: Oh, my gosh. Yeah, so- I did not know
Mikki: that.
Jessica: Yeah,
Mikki: yeah.
Jessica: So their final
Mikki: product- Is not real ... with
Jessica: everything is not
Mikki: real.
Jessica: Yeah. They have to-
Mikki: Yeah, if they wanna keep anything that she puts in there, they have to pay for it. Like, and that's why you'll see where they do like one thing that's a gift.
Jessica: Mm.
Mikki: Because that's the only thing they get to keep.
That's the only thing they get to keep in all the stuff that they put in there. And like we, so we actually reached out to the show once. Oh, my gosh. And we specifically asked, and they're like, "Oh, no, [00:53:00] they take it all back after we're done filming." And I was like So
Jessica: that's why you see like the same couch or anything.
I love that you
Mikki: answered me, and that that was your answer. Oh, my God. 'Cause it's just like, I think the, if you weren't in construction- Why, I mean, you guys didn't even know that. She's in construction. You're not in construction. No, I am. Why would you think that they would put, fill this house with, like, amazing furniture, then turn around and take it all back?
'Cause that's what they do. Mm-hmm. So it really messes with people. And I hate it, 'cause you
Jessica: just, 'cause the person watching it, me-
Mikki: Yes ...
Jessica: thinks that in their budget, it, well, look, I know the budget's not real, but I would have thought it included all the pretty things- Nope ... that they put in there.
Mikki: Didn't include all.
So that's where it's like, they're like, oh, and you think, oh, for $100,000, they got a brand new renov- like, f- every room renovated and every room furnished. No, the $100,000 barely covered one of the rooms. Oof. Wow, crazy. So I think for me, it's the staging that they end up taking back, and then just the not realistic prices that they give people.
Like, oh- Mm-hmm ... this subway tile cost $200. No, it didn't. [00:54:00]
Jessica: I love that they, they build walls, and they just have r- people
Mikki: run through it too Yeah, they'll have people run through them- It's crazy ... for, for the drama For the drama ... for the, it's a click. All right, so we're gonna do a little rapid fire moment before we close out.
Permit or no permit?
Joe Woolworth: Permit,
Mikki: always. Oh. Always. That's my girl. I
Erika: was, I, I was like, is this a trick question?
Mikki: It, it was not, but you would be surprised. Yeah. People are like, "No, you don't need a permit for that." Mm-hmm. Okay, this is, there's not a wrong answer here, but in your opinion, granite or quartz?
Erika: Ooh, I like quartz.
Yeah.
Mikki: I like
Erika: the look of quartz more. Mm.
Mikki: I think it's like, so like, s- they're getting so good with quartz now, where they can make quartz look like natural stone.
Erika: Mm-hmm.
Mikki: But what irritates me is now that people have figured out that you can do so many things with quartz, quartz can sometimes be more expensive than granite.
Erika: Oh.
Mikki: So a lot of people are like, "Oh, quartz will be cheaper." No, it won't, because it's about what's popular- Mm-hmm ... not about what would actually cost more to [00:55:00] manufacture. Right. Supply and demand. So they're making a killing on the quartz- Mm ... because it's all man-made, so they don't have to go mine it. They don't have to do any of that.
Mm. They can make it per order, especially if it's, like, a fancy custom-made one, but then they charge you more. And it's like, okay,
Erika: that, the math doesn't math there. Hmm.
Mikki: Oh, here's a good one.
Jessica: Luxury vinyl, vinyl plank, yes or no?
Erika: Oh, my gosh. Um, I, I prefer hardwood. But- So
Mikki: it's a no.
Erika: But no, I don't, I've had so many issues with it-
Mikki: Oh, okay
Erika: um, in, in my properties- Yeah ... that it, it, just a few years and, and you have to rip it out and, and do it again.
Mikki: Oh, wow.
Erika: Um- Oh ... I don't know if it's just the, the amount of traffic. I don't know if it's just the wear or- It could be the
Mikki: traffic ...
Erika: um, but-
Mikki: Or the, or the product 'Cause we have both in our house. We have wood and we have l- LVP.
And let me tell you, with four dogs, one of them weighs 200 pounds, the wood is not holding up. Like, we're, we're having to sand it down and- Mm ... refinish [00:56:00] it. Whereas with the LVP, it looks like it was installed yesterday, and I'm like, "Ooh, that was great."
Erika: So, yeah, I mean, I guess it depends on, on- Yeah ... uh, on the situation, but-
Mikki: If
Erika: you have stinky dogs
I, I do use LVP. I do use LVP all the time. That's, that's what I use. I mean, it's
Mikki: so popular. Mm-hmm. It's so popular. That's what I
Jessica: use. I love, I love real hardwood floors. I have the stupid engineered hardwood floors in my
Mikki: home. Listen, it's better than not. I mean, it de- it depends. I actually like your hardwood floors.
They're nice.
Jessica: Yeah, except in the spots where, like, when I was vacuuming, a little piece of the wood was sticking up, and you run the vacuum over it and the whole thing, ooh.
Mikki: Whoopsie. Yep. That's like when you, like, have, like, a, a s- a string- And you pull it ... and you pull it and your, like, whole shirt falls off.
Yeah. Yep. Not that kind of show, y'all.
Jessica: Nope.
Mikki: So thank you so much- Yes ... for coming on the show and for answering our questions. I'm, I'm thrilled that you're here. Um, we hope obviously that... We're gonna put, um, g- your contact information below, so, so if anybody's local and they're looking for a good GC that they can trust, we [00:57:00] got your girl right here.
Erika: Awesome.
Mikki: Um, so obviously if any of you are watching and you have had a, a, a not great story, a not great situation happen with your general contractor, or you used somebody who was like, "Permit, meh," we wanna hear your story. So you can go to chicksinconstruction.com. You can just scroll down. There's a little form you can fill out.
And the more that you share your stories with us, we can share with our audience, and the less people can get screwed over because learning the hard way is what? Overrated. Overrated. So please do that. Also, we would love it if you would like on whatever platform that you're listening or watching, uh, and please subscribe to our podcast 'cause it helps with the metrics and the algorithm and whatnots, and so that Jess can replace her bathtub- Exactly
with a not bathtub. With
Jessica: a bigger
Mikki: shower. It's all about the Benjamins, y'all. Sorry, that was bad. I know nobody says that anymore. It's 'cause she's old. Jess, where can... I am old. Because I'm old. Jess, where can they find us on the socials?
Jessica: On Facebook, [00:58:00] Instagram, and LinkedIn, it's @chicksinconstruction. Podcast, on YouTube, it's @chicksinconstruction.
And Erica, where can we find you?
Mikki: Yes.
Erika: Yes, on, uh, Instagram and Facebook, hilltopgc.
Jessica: Awesome.
Erika: Um, and that's all I have.
Mikki: And your website?
Erika: And my website's, uh, gchilltop.com. Perfect. gchilltop.com,
Mikki: y'all. All right, we love you and we'll see you next time. Bye. Bye.