DBLX Joins Auspicious Group - Nicky Hoyland's Story

In this conversation, Nicky Hoyland, Chief Innovation Officer at Auspicious, shares her journey from a film and media graduate to a leader in learning technology and business innovation. She discusses her experiences in building DBLX, the challenges of transitioning from bespoke development to a SaaS platform, and the importance of collaboration and networking in business. Nicky also reflects on the impact of AI on the industry and her excitement for the future of technology in enhancing human experiences.

Takeaways

• Nicky's background in film and media shaped her unique approach to technology.
• Building strong client relationships is crucial for business growth.
• Networking has been a key factor in acquiring new clients.
• The transition from bespoke development to SaaS presents unique challenges.
• Collaboration between teams is essential for successful project delivery.
• Innovative learning solutions can drive engagement and effectiveness.
• AI is transforming the way businesses operate and deliver services.
• Understanding user needs is vital for developing effective SaaS products.
• The journey of entrepreneurship is filled with lessons and growth opportunities.
• Nicky values being part of a creative team rather than solely leading.

Connect with Nicky on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickyhoyland/
Connect with Barnaby on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barnabycook/

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Creators & Guests

Host

Barnaby Cook

What is The Exit Plan: Mergers and Acquisitions for Creative Entrepreneurs?

The Exit Plan is for business owners that are interested in learning more about how to sell their business. Each episode Barnaby Cook interviews someone who has bought or sold a business - either a creative agency, or a production company. The conversation gets under the skin of why they wanted to sell, or were looking to acquire, how the deal was structured, how they agreed upon a valuation and what lessons they learnt along the way.

Barnaby Cook: 00:00

Episode of The Exit Plan, I talk to Nicky Hoyland who is the chief innovation officer at Auspicious Group. Some of you may know that is the agency group that I am the co CEO of. We've just completed on the acquisition of Digital Balance or DBLX, and I talked to Nikki about her founding the company about 10 years ago, the eventual sale of it in 2019, and the now onward sale of that business into the Auspicious Group. Hope you enjoy today's conversation.

Nicky Hoyland: 00:33

Yeah. Well, firstly, thank you for having me. I'm Nikki Hoyland. I am now the group chief innovation officer, Auspicious Group and look after all things DBLX inside of the group.

Barnaby Cook: 00:46

Cool. Well, I know quite a lot about you and your business already, but, it'd be really useful just to sort of dig in to where it all started and and how Yeah. How you set it up.

Nicky Hoyland: 00:57

Yeah. Of course. Interestingly, and I'm not even sure that you know this about me, my degree is in film and media studies, which I did absolutely nothing with after uni. So maybe things come full circle. Who knows?

Nicky Hoyland: 01:09

I did a lot of work with, Cisco and Microsoft straight out of university and found that I had a little bit of an ability to speak techie, but also speak human as well and bring a little bit of that bridge and that gap between some of those conversations that sometimes happen. Then found my way into really enjoying a lot around learning and development and actually how did people learn some of those new technical skills or come to address some of that skill set. That wound me up as was Orange, before Orange and T Mobile came together under the the digital brand that was EE, which allowed us to do loads of awesome and cool and high budget based things and a new approach to the learning, quite honestly, inside of that organization.

Barnaby Cook: 01:56

So so what what kind of stuff were you do like, what what was your job role? What was your job title at Yeah. When you were working for these companies?

Nicky Hoyland: 02:04

Not in the learning technologies team. And back in so this is, what, a good 14, 15 years ago now. So that was all around where mobile learning was headed and new devices, new mediums, moving away from just traditional classroom based, content or or elearning content. And it was at EA that some of those deliveries and some of that projects that we did, we got loads of external companies, BBC, Grants Whiskey, coming in saying, what is this that you're doing over here? And how have you been so successful?

Nicky Hoyland: 02:37

So my business partner and I at the time said, well, why don't we give this a bit of a bit of a shot and see where we get to with there seems to be a little bit of a gap of people that can develop technical solutions for large organizations that has a human centric focus to app development and why human beings do what they do and how adults learn and why don't we try and bring some of that together. So founded in 2013, ours was then, Digital Balance. 1st client was Santander, 2nd client was Expedia, and we were solution architects for those companies of how can technology make the processes that you have and your human beings better, and where do we bring that together, and where do we understand some of the limitations of where tech can fall down.

Barnaby Cook: 03:25

So where did you get your so sorry. Where did you get your tech background from then, or was that your cofounder that provided that? How did you sort of split your roles? Yeah.

Nicky Hoyland: 03:36

So Chris was techie and had done some development and so on and so forth, and that is in previous roles. He'd done web development and e learning development. And I I don't know. I think that the problem solved of the 2 of us coming together to address how could technology make people better, make processes better, but come at it from a different angle. I think it's more that problem solving piece, really.

Nicky Hoyland: 04:00

And I've always been relatively technical. I think the team would say I'm dangerous enough that I know enough, but I don't necessarily sit and code kind of line by line, but there are projects

Barnaby Cook: 04:13

Can you code?

Nicky Hoyland: 04:14

Yeah. Yeah. I can. Well So where but where did you I can.

Barnaby Cook: 04:17

But where did you learn that? If you did film and media studies and then went into a job, where did where did you pick up those skills?

Nicky Hoyland: 04:25

I think I think as part of the part of the role and really wearing all of the different hats when you set up a business that you don't have this full infrastructure and team of people around you. So if there's a project that needs delivery, and that's something that you can help write some reports or copy some code and recreate some pages or help with QA, help with design, every single hat that we still have in the business, I have worn at some point. And I think that enables you as the business grows to really understand what the team need in different areas, what you're not good at, and what you need brilliant people for, what areas sometimes need additional flex or additional strength at certain points in business growth. And a lot of things can be challenging as well along that process. You've sat in those shoes when you literally wore all of those roles.

Nicky Hoyland: 05:17

So and then I would say now I keep my hand more in with a little bit of AI. And, as as we all are now in bedroom developers, I think there's the, you know, there's the opportunity to explore tools that allow you to get to a certain point. And whilst you might not have all of the understanding of how that comes together, there's certainly a new new world opening up for people of what development looks like and and means and how attainable that is.

Barnaby Cook: 05:42

What, just going back to the Expedia thing, what were you doing for them?

Nicky Hoyland: 05:47

So we, one point in time, we were every single hotel on Expedia dotcom and every employee of Expedia. We did all of their training and development and comms. So it was a big old global project. Brilliant one to get to work on and incredible team that were over there. Brilliant inspirational leader that just said, how can we do this differently?

Nicky Hoyland: 06:10

And didn't see road blockers. Just saw opportunity to to go and create something brilliant. So that's what we did.

Barnaby Cook: 06:18

Okay. So how did you how did you get those first few clients? Now that's always the the challenge when people are setting up a business is how do you let people know that you exist. And also, how do you kind of charge them as a business rather than sort of charging them as a freelancer?

Nicky Hoyland: 06:32

Yeah. Yeah. I've always been a big, big believer in network and relationships. I think there's been many meetings that I've sat in over the many years and gone, actually, these systems here that you've got, you could bridge these things together and you could do this this way. You don't need something new.

Nicky Hoyland: 06:48

Let's not just pour something in for the sake of it. And I think that builds a lot of trust, with clients and with with friends that we've worked with for a long, long time. Expedia was, a leader that was previously at EE. So we'd worked together for a long, long time, a lady called Diane MacDonald, who's done incredible things with amazing brands. And Santander was very similar.

Nicky Hoyland: 07:08

Again, network and contacts. And originally, it was just 2 of us that did solution architecture, and then we built the team out from there. Always a scary moment taking on your first real employee, and then your second and then your third, and then before you know it, we were a team of 18 of us when we sold into, Hula or as was then My Clever Group.

Barnaby Cook: 07:31

Okay. And with your business partner, at what point did he exit the business?

Nicky Hoyland: 07:36

After we sold to Hula and and and MCG, I think with any business when you're when you're growing it, there's certain stages that are right for people and then certain stages that that aren't. And I think that was a a realization that he went through.

Barnaby Cook: 07:54

And was what was the motivation to sell? Were you were you kind of looking was it something that he wanted? Did he kind of want to get out? Or, is it something that just kind of came about and you ended up considering? How how does it all

Nicky Hoyland: 08:06

come about? So we, we entered a business award that we were we were brilliant on award winning with our clients, and we actually thought, let's enter something that's more focused on on the business and what we've built together, and that that didn't come from money or we didn't put in our own cash. There was a bit of a leap of faith, to be completely honest, when we when we first set up. And, yeah, I think going through those awards and meeting new people, and we met the chairman of my clever group, hula, Gareth Mobley, through that process. And he was interested in in what we did, and it was, yeah, it was it was great to, I guess, be seen in that way as well because it had it wasn't something that, well, let's sell this business with a view to go sell it.

Nicky Hoyland: 08:50

I think that changes as you've been in business longer and gone through a sale and in where we are now, I think you have a, well, where are we taking this to? But I'm not certainly for me, that wasn't there when we set up. It was more a let's let's do something creative that allows us that flexibility and freedom to go and do what we're great at.

Barnaby Cook: 09:09

Okay. So it was just a bit of kind of happenstance that you entered this award and and it happened to was was he a judge, or was he sort of involved with the awards ceremony?

Nicky Hoyland: 09:18

He's involved with, with some of that process. Yeah. So Okay. Yeah. I think I think Chris had probably thought about it of, well, where where do we want to take this to?

Nicky Hoyland: 09:26

And it it was the right time, I think, for us. I think a lot of that was around being able to be proactive with the growth of the business because I think looking back now, it's quite funny that we didn't have marketing. We had clients like L'Oreal, Sun and Air, Expedia, and we didn't we didn't ever market. We just people would come to us or they would move to a new role and take us with them because we made them look, you know, brilliant in what they did. But we were always very reactive to how the business had to grow rather than being able to go, actually, this is where we wanna get to, and this is our our next step and our our next phase to selling it.

Nicky Hoyland: 10:03

It allowed us to get to to sort of that next step.

Barnaby Cook: 10:06

And and how did how did that process go? Kind of how how long did it take from going through that awards process to to selling the business?

Nicky Hoyland: 10:13

I think probably a good sort of 4, 5 months of I think the important thing for me is knowing that that's something that you're gonna want to work with. And does that make sense for everybody involved? Is it a nice strategic fit both for your clients and what you do and the team and the people that you're gonna go and be part of? So, yeah, there was a lot of understanding of the business as as part of that as well. So yeah.

Barnaby Cook: 10:40

And what did what did my clever group do, and kind of what did they see in DBLX? And how did they think that was gonna kind of fit in with with the overall strategy of the group?

Nicky Hoyland: 10:52

It was a a view of bringing together a collection of agencies that were from everything from kind of marked in, PR, social, and so on, and and DBX being a digital part within that. And that was that was originally some of the some of the plan, that we were we were headed to. Okay. I don't think for everybody in that came together to be part of that, that was quite not how it ended up working out, which I think is one of those things in in life that things change as they as they evolve and as you as you learn a little bit more about businesses.

Barnaby Cook: 11:28

Yeah. So then tell me a bit about the development of the the SaaS platform and and how that came about.

Nicky Hoyland: 11:36

Yeah. So we it hadn't been long since we'd done the sale, and then a, small thing called COVID hit

Barnaby Cook: 11:44

Yep.

Nicky Hoyland: 11:45

Which I think, I mean, clearly for absolutely everybody was, something that was completely unexpected and nobody knew that the impact it would have and for how long. So what that meant was there was a lot of customers that paused on projects that they had. And we had a team of of people that we'd always had a vision to want to get to a SaaS products and platform, so it felt like an opportune time to do that at that moment in time. I think for all businesses, it was a very, very, very challenging time at the start, throughout it, and and still now, the impact that that's had on businesses. But, yeah, the SaaS piece really came out.

Nicky Hoyland: 12:23

A lot of the ideation and thought process and lessons learned in many, many custom builds that we've done over the years and where some of that similarity set. So, hence, the the SaaS platform was bought.

Barnaby Cook: 12:36

And how did you kind of build out the team then for the for the SaaS element of the business and the bespoke bit? And how did you kind of think about it in terms of the 2 different offering?

Nicky Hoyland: 12:49

Yeah. I think hindsight's a wonderful thing. Right? I think sometimes if I was to go back in time, I think there was a feeling of, well, actually, the processes are very, very similar. We're developing very similar ish products in a similar sector.

Nicky Hoyland: 13:02

But the reality is SaaS and custom software around the content that we do are very, very disparate, and they operate very differently. So I think, you know, originally, the thought process was bring that together and what a what a great flex of skills that that could be and, great team that that could be, and the team are absolutely phenomenal. Everybody that has come with the acquisition of DBLX and the Hula team themselves, but sometimes to put oil and water together in terms of technology and offerings doesn't quite work despite the the wanting to. But certainly at the start, that was the that was the ambition for us for sure.

Barnaby Cook: 13:42

Yeah. That's really I I think that's that's quite familiar. I think lots of people have that challenge when when it comes to building out SaaS thing. Very. Very.

Barnaby Cook: 13:51

Why why is it different? Like, that that's kind of interesting. What's what is the difference between kind of trying to run a SaaS technology business and then a a bespoke thing?

Nicky Hoyland: 14:03

Yeah. I think it, fundamentally, part of what I shared on top of what I certainly love is solving problems for people. And you can do that in a SaaS platform, but that has to be for everybody. So how do you try to solve everybody's individual problems, especially when they've also always worked with you where you solve their specific problem? That's some very different conversation to have with a client.

Nicky Hoyland: 14:29

I think the view of how to get features and functionality out within a more SaaS roadmap structure rather than the way that custom development works is very owned by the client. They're saying this is where I want it to go and when and to these timescales and potentially this cost and this budget and where it needs to swing to great. Whereas with SaaS, that's obviously fundamentally very different. I think the scalability of SaaS is a very different proposition. Being able to test and learn and get that interest, get that appetite, have a really solid user base, and then look at scale is different to an organization where you're building many of something rather than one of something that will have many, many, many organizations and users in it.

Nicky Hoyland: 15:15

The tech stacks are different as well because of some of the the nuances of of SaaS versus bespoke development.

Barnaby Cook: 15:23

And team as well? You end up with separate teams working on those on the two areas of the business? Yeah.

Nicky Hoyland: 15:28

I think there's, in some instances, and I'm sure there's there's there's some businesses that similar to how we did had, cross functional teams, but specifically where you've got different technology stacks that obviously does create 2 2 separate teams that that run quite differently. So it yeah. There's a I think there's a bit of a void that can happen there despite everybody's best intentions and culturally trying to bring that together. It's very, very hard to bring something tightly together when they are fundamentally different, which ultimately led to where I and the board did the exploration of how you and I know each other and allowing both of the development side of the businesses, the SAS and custom, to go and be phenomenal and brilliant in their own individual rights, and then the content team to be phenomenal, brilliant with all of the custom development that, the content team do.

Barnaby Cook: 16:22

So how did that because it was kind of your idea, wasn't it, in in some ways to kind of to to broker this deal between between us and, you know, carving out the bespoke bit of the business and, yeah, sort of how tell me a bit about the the history there of of you and Rob and Rachel and and how how it all came about.

Nicky Hoyland: 16:44

I think and as I shared in the when we first shared the announcements and I I posted on social media, I do believe there's an element of the universe brings people back together at some point. And there's always been this kind of string between Rachel and I of nearly moments, I would say, of where throughout her previous agency and now auspicious where things have nearly happened on some level, of how the businesses could work or collaborate together. So we had a chat, and it turns out that she was in the middle of of setting up Auspicious with you with yourself, Mark and Grace. And the more that we talked about that, the more that that felt like something that would be, a good fit. And there were conversations going on from board and investors from a hula stance of, actually, let's let as I've said, both of these businesses really, really go and flourish and do incredible things, but separately.

Nicky Hoyland: 17:45

So I think sometimes the stars just align and those conversations happen.

Barnaby Cook: 17:51

And I think I think it's worth kind of touching on the the Santander relationship and the fact that Rachel's old agency and you were both working for Santander for a long time. Yeah. Can you sort of tell me a bit about that?

Nicky Hoyland: 18:04

Yeah. Of course. So mister Ashcroft, the, the beautiful wordsmith that he is, joining us as chief learning officer at the group. So as I mentioned, Santander were one of our first clients. We've worked with them for years now and have a wonderful partnership with them.

Nicky Hoyland: 18:19

And Rob just thinks differently about the approach to people development and how do we, in the same way that I do, look to consumer grade technology and look at how we could bring that into the world of work to help people be be better, be more engaged, something to feel far more familiar. But how do we keep an eye on what the business needs to see from that? Robert done some great work with Rachel's previous agency that was award winning and daring and quite challenging, in in its approach. Made people listen. It made people go watch it.

Nicky Hoyland: 18:58

It had the impact that you needed in the same way that you might talk about, did you watch that thing on Netflix over the weekend? That was the buzz that was created inside the bank that is still spoken about in the bank and is spoken about externally from Santander. So we got to a place where there was this incredible content that was being created, but some of the platform wasn't the same grade that you would expect. It wasn't that Netflix, Prime, Disney plus experience. And when I say Netflix, I think Netflix for learning is really, really, really overused.

Nicky Hoyland: 19:32

And to be honest, it grinds my gears a little bit because the consumption of Netflix is really, really passive. You're not there to learn something. Netflix's biggest competitor is sleep. It's a very you go round and round and round watching very, very similar content or the same content. So what we were trying to do is drive all of the the recommendations, the way that that looked, the way that that felt, the UX of that platform with brilliant content as well.

Nicky Hoyland: 20:00

And, actually, if you've got a great platform but poor content, nobody's gonna come. And if vice versa, you have the same challenge. And I think there's this, I don't know, there's this expectation that work technology is quite crap and mediocre, and you expect it to be janky and clunky and hard to navigate. And that Rob just wasn't prepared to to have that and thought differently and creatively about how could platform and content come together to be something brilliant. And then from there, how could recommendations be fed to you based on real personalized responses that you'd given or algorithms that made sense across the bank that weren't just video content or learning content, that was also connecting with people based on skills taxonomy and experience levels and competency levels.

Nicky Hoyland: 20:49

That was the ability to go and experience different job roles for a period of time. That was how we brought all of these different learning and talent offerings to be a whole platform rather than lots of disparate parts. So between what Rachel was doing, what we were doing, what Rob was doing, incredibly award winning, amazing, internal results and figures that were given to to to that platform that I think the 3 of us have always had kind of that bond of one day one day we'll do something. We always used to talk about it being like the Avengers, so, like, how they would assemble and be this great, group of people. Although I'm not sure that Rachel was quite on the Avengers vibe, but, certainly, Rob and I were in spirit.

Nicky Hoyland: 21:34

She was part of the group.

Barnaby Cook: 21:35

We need to do a video of of us, you know, jumping into the pool and then revert it and jump out again.

Nicky Hoyland: 21:41

Definitely. Definitely. I'm saying to everybody now, it's great that there's that kind of fresh start for both businesses, and we're all suspicious to have dblx as part of the part of the group. But my gosh, that was stressful on the run up to Christmas between people being out and the holidays and, people taking leave and so on. So, yeah, I'm pleased we we are where we are now.

Barnaby Cook: 22:08

Yeah. So I think it you know, in terms of the kind of structure of the deal, it's worth kind of saying that it was it was it was a carve out, wasn't it? There was there was a limited company that existed that used to be called DBLX, Digital Balance, had then been had then been renamed Hula Bespoke. So, actually, in some ways, that was fairly straightforward because the team were already employed by that limited, so we kind of had something to buy. But I guess there were just some complex around it being a carve out and there, you know, just being a lot of or some shared resources that you had with with Hula.

Nicky Hoyland: 22:44

And Yeah. Yeah.

Barnaby Cook: 22:46

That that's

Nicky Hoyland: 22:47

I think as I say, we tried really hard to make that one, both in terms of people, culture, tech, but ultimately where where we've ended up is that where we are is the right decision, and it's all learnings along the way, isn't it? But, yeah, I think some of the complexity has come of splitting accounts, and the amount of SaaS software developers and designers and content creators have. It's that's some of the complexity of of Split, but I think the deal itself was relatively relatively easy to to get your head around.

Barnaby Cook: 23:26

Yeah. Yeah. So I guess that's yeah. We had we had that kind of that few months lead up into doing the deal and a lot of back and forth. And, yeah, 31st December, it it happened, went through, announced it last week.

Barnaby Cook: 23:42

Yeah. Can you just talk a little bit about about the team that are coming over and what what what the what your hopes?

Nicky Hoyland: 23:49

Yeah. Of course. So a lot of the team are OD, Digital Balance. So they've been with us many, many years, which is a beautiful thing to have and a pride of the culture that's that's created in in the business. Phenomenal talent that we've got that have built some really, really complex custom software, and they've got us so many of those lessons and so much of that learnings and where they would have changed stuff, done so differently over the many, many years where technology has changed and evolved.

Nicky Hoyland: 24:20

So, yeah, there's a team of of developers, front end, back end. We've got QA to make sure everything's fully tested and where it needs to be and is compliant against what we said we would do. We have a great creative team that do lots of incredible real elevate elevation to, e learning content that isn't just this text and next awful compliance content that we've all had to suffer through many, many times. Some amazing projects for the likes of Kia and Subsea 7 and Schneider Electric and really doing some, especially when content's dry, to elevate that, that people want to do it is is challenging and the team do it brilliantly. So, yeah, that's that's that's the offering that we do.

Nicky Hoyland: 25:03

Essentially, we look to go, how can technology or content make your people better? So that's everything from learning management systems to talent management, succession planning, comms platforms, mentoring, and all of the content and everything in between. That's what we do. I'm incredibly passionate about what we do. Love the relationships that we have.

Nicky Hoyland: 25:24

We genuinely are an extension, the tech extension of our clients' team, and excited to come into the group to look at where we can bring much of that digital efficiencies, where that makes sense for other clients across the group, and really push forward and evolve what we do as a business, especially in a world of where AI and large SaaS platforms play, where actually does custom make real sense for people, in and around that technological evolution that organizations are are absolutely on. Where do we hand hold clients with that as well, where some of that feels a little daunting, especially in a world of AI and AgenTek AI. Yeah. So yeah.

Barnaby Cook: 26:08

That's I mean, I think, you know, for us, especially, it's it's it's a it's massive. You know, it's it's great to have this this capability all of a sudden, and it really kind of builds out our offering to mean that we can we can yeah. We're we're we're we're coming close to being able to provide a full suite of services to to to big corporates. And, I mean, I think, you know, the the the next step really is to we have to kind of properly introduce the companies to each other in the group. Yeah.

Barnaby Cook: 26:36

Hopefully, that'll be next week. You know, everyone kind of just pitching a bit about what they do to each other because, you know, it's now looking for opportunities for where we can go out and and and sell our services kind of together. And there are already opportunities. I I just come off a call with Blue Chalk and one of their clients in Abu Dhabi, and they want to promote the film that they've made, and they need to build a microsite around it. And all of the PR and comms will tell Yeah.

Barnaby Cook: 27:03

You know, be pushed back to that site. And, you know, suddenly, we can we can do this bit, that bit, that bit, and the rest of it.

Nicky Hoyland: 27:09

Yeah. Yeah. And I think having worked inside large large corporates and with large corporates as well, that's a real efficiency that we can help people with of for your customers or for your people. Actually, you can come to one agency. You're working with 1 team.

Nicky Hoyland: 27:25

It's one set of assets, resources, digital components that come together. That's one centralized budget in terms of efficiencies, time scales, resource from your subject matter experts internally rather than actually work 2 separate departments in one business creating very, very similar content or propositions, just the viewer of that thing or the user of that platform is either an internal or an external user. So there's such efficiency there that I think allows us to really stretch and push and be additionally creative in what we do based on the commercial efficiencies that we can offer our clients.

Barnaby Cook: 28:03

Yeah. And I think then there's there's that sort of, you know, your new role as chief innovation officer for the group, is kind of looking at the other businesses and looking at our processes and, you know, finding ways that we can we can improve the way that we do things and looking at AI and all of that kind of stuff. So I think that that's a really exciting opportunity as well.

Nicky Hoyland: 28:24

Yeah. I think flexing that internally and and with our clients of, you know, we we practice what we preach internally too. But across client projects, how do we get that to be more innovative for them? And where do we take people on a bit of a journey? Post about this next week, I think every company of the past sort of 18 months is just smashing AI into everything, and it's not necessarily intentional or purposeful or taking people on a journey.

Nicky Hoyland: 28:53

And I think having a bit bit more of a look at that of, of course, AI can now make us far more productive and efficient. And I do think this year, we'll stop talking about AI. We will just use it. It will stop being this main topic of conversation. It will become almost bit background task of where do we then start to see things elevate around.

Nicky Hoyland: 29:15

Again, I'm not talking about my post, but whether that's Digital Twins or AgenTik AI, and and actually, how do we have this interoperability between us as a self that we might have. So I think that will be interesting to explore both internally and and as I say with our clients. But ultimately, what makes us human beings is our experiences, our storytellers, our what makes us human beings is our experiences, our storytellers, our memories, is our presence of of who we are and and and what we are. Not just, you know, we're not just this collection of soulless machines talking to each other. That's what makes it innately human.

Nicky Hoyland: 29:52

Remembering that our core, both of who we are as a group, but the offerings that we provide to clients there. There's a real uniqueness there that I think you have to have that blend of effective and efficient and something that's quite consumable. But actually, where is that magic? Where is that spark? And I'm not sure that, yeah, we're getting that from AI.

Barnaby Cook: 30:12

So much to so much to explore. So what's it been so what's it been like for you? Because I guess you've you've been on quite a journey from sort of, you know, university to employee to business owner to selling your business to then kind of coming out with us. Yeah. How yeah.

Barnaby Cook: 30:31

How how's how's it all been for you for you?

Nicky Hoyland: 30:34

It's been a ride. I I think all of its lessons along the way. There's things I would do differently. There's things I would do time and time and time and time again, but you can only do it one way, and I think it's made me made me who I am. I've always had a passion of how technology makes us better and more effective as as human beings, but how do we do that from that human lens?

Nicky Hoyland: 30:56

So I'm really looking forward to actually my role at Auspicious Group not being that CEO role. I think that works for some, doesn't for others. The past 5 years of being a CEO through pandemics and wars and recessions and everything in between has been challenging. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to being part part of a group, not necessarily the the the CEO of that group, but already that everybody's been been so incredibly welcoming, both from you yourself, Rachel, to everyone across the group and some phenomenally creative people. Like, it's amazing to get to see some of the work and some of the clients and how awesome those people are and faces behind all of that.

Nicky Hoyland: 31:43

It's, yeah, it's great to be part of.

Barnaby Cook: 31:45

Yeah. It is. It's super exciting. That's actually seems like a really nice place to to wrap it up. So, yeah, thank you very much.

Nicky Hoyland: 31:54

Most welcome. Thank you for having me.

Barnaby Cook: 31:57

Thank you very much for listening to the Exit Plan podcast. If you enjoyed it, please leave us a review to help other people find us. If you would like your question answered in m and a q and a, or are wondering what's next for you and your business and want to chat about an exit plan, drop me an email on [e-mail], or get in touch with me on LinkedIn.