lonely campus podcast | Episode 11: lonely campus podcast with Alyssa Sutherland (Part 2) featuring Natalia Pedraza and Nacy Woods

This episode of the lonely campus podcast was originally recorded back in spring 2022, so we are retrofitting this podcast into lonely campus. However, because the podcast falls squarely under the theme of "inclusion and belonging," we think that this 2 part series is a valuable addition to the lonely campus podcast.  
 
This episode is part 2 of a 2 part series that features Syracuse University undergraduate student Alyssa Sutherland, who is a Biology and Neuroscience major in the College of Arts and Sciences. Back in spring 2022, Alyssa was a first year student who had just completed the Panhellenic rush process. She wanted do this podcast series for two main reasons: create a resource for incoming women of color who might be curious about rushing Panhellenic sororities and start a dialogue to get sororities thinking about how they might become more inclusive.

Part 1 focused on Alyssa's story and her reasons why she wanted to record a podcast on this particular topic. Part 2, also recorded in spring 2022, was produced and hosted by Alyssa herself. In this episode, Alyssa invites two other students to join the conversation. Natalia Pedraza is a undergraduate chemistry major at Syracuse University who, back in spring 2022, had just completed rush. Alyssa and Natalia are joined by Nacy Woods who at that time was the Panhellenic Council's Recruitment Chair. Produced by Alyssa Sutherland. Edited by Amy Messersmith. Transcript available upon request.

Creators & Guests

Host

Amy Messersmith

Amy Messersmith is one of two inaugural Office of Diversity and Inclusion Administrative Fellows at Syracuse University. She is the Associate Director of Student Support Services (SSS) and works closely with the Arthur O. Eve Higher Education Opportunity Program (HEOP). HEOP and SSS are two opportunity programs that serve undergraduates at SU, many who are first generation college students. Amy collaborated with a team of likeminded staff and faculty to create The SENSES Project in 2021, which is a student focused recording studio and podcasting program for HEOP and SSS students and their friends. If you want to share your story on the lonely campus podcast, please email Amy at [e-mail].

Producer

Alyssa Sutherland

Alyssa Sutherland is an undergraduate student studying Biology and Neuroscience in the College of Arts and Sciences. In fall 2021, Alyssa met lonely campus podcast host Amy Messersmith in FYS 101. In spring 2022, Alyssa recorded two podcasts focused on the experiences of women of color rushing Panhellenic sororities. Because these podcasts fit so squarely under the theme of Inclusion and Belonging, we're including them in the lonely campus podcast.

Guest

Nacy Woods

Nacy Woods is an alum of Syracuse University, Class of 2022. As an undergraduate student, she studied Public Relations in the SI Newhouse School of Public Communicaitons. Back in spring 2022, Nacy was the Panhellenic Council's Recruitment Chair.

Guest

Natalia Pedraza

Natalia Pedraza Natalia is a biochemistry and forensic science major. For the 2023-2024 school year she was a part of the Panhellenic Council as the Philanthropy Chair. She presided over all 13 chapter's Philanthropy Chairs and events and was the point of contact for all Philanthropy Chairs for any questions and to get their events approved. She also put on several of her own philanthropy events to support local organizations and communities outside of the university such as Boys and Girls club of Syracuse, PEACE Inc., Helping Hounds, Hendrick's Chapel Food Pantry, and Joseph's House Adopt-a -Family Holiday program.

What is lonely campus podcast ?

Loneliness in the United States was declared an epidemic recently by the Surgeon General. Finding community on campus – especially post-pandemic – can be a challenge for students coming to college their first year. The purpose of the lonely campus podcast is to let students who are feeling lonely know that they are not alone, and features students who are willing to talk about experiencing loneliness. Students then share the steps they took to find their community and a sense of belonging. The podcast seeks to bring hope and reassurance to the listener, as well as provide concrete steps to take to find community. This podcast is sponsored by Syracuse University's Office of Diversity and Inclusion and produced by Amy Messersmith, an ODI Administrative Fellow.

Episode 11: lonely campus podcast with Alyssa Sutherland (Part 2) featuring Natalia Pedraza and Nacy Woods

Mary Grace Almandrez 00:11
Hi, I'm Mary Grace Almandrez, the vice president for diversity and inclusion. Welcome to the lonely campus podcast as presented by the Office of Diversity and Inclusion. This show is hosted by our administrative fellow Amy Messersmith. And feature students just like you who share stories about the challenges and triumphs that come with trying to find your place on Syracuse University's campus.

Amy Messersmith 00:43
Hi, everybody, this is Amy Messersmith. I'm an associate director for TRiO Student Support Services here at Syracuse University. And I'm also an Office of Diversity and Inclusion administrative fellow. My project is a pop up podcasting studio focused on a podcast called lonely campus. The goal of lonely campus is to provide a resource to students who might be on campus for the first time and are going through feelings of loneliness. And the thought was, why don't we ask students who felt something similar, who eventually figured out their spaces in places on campus where they do find a sense of belonging, and have them share their stories with the new students in hopes of perhaps inspiring them to take action and follow similar steps to find their communities as well. This episode has a little bit different format because it's the second part of a podcast series that was recorded back in spring 2022. Before we started working on lonely campus, so we're kind of retrofitting it into this podcast series. But because these episodes are about inclusion and belonging in the search for community on campus, we think these episodes are a valuable addition to lonely campus. In Fall 2021, I had met this student named Alyssa Sutherland in my FIS one on one section. And she stood out for a number of reasons. But the two main ones were that number one, she was incredibly strong contributor to class discussions. And she was also very open about talking about her identity is a biracial African American or black woman. And so after the class wrapped up, I reached out to her and I shared that we're starting this new initiative called the census project where we are using music production and podcasting as a way to create community amongst students and hopefully increase their sense of belonging and encourage dialogue across differences. And so what's interesting is that when I reached out to Alyssa, she had shared that she had actually been wanting to create a podcast. And she already had a topic in mind. And that was to focus on the experience of being a woman of color, rushing Panhellenic sororities at Syracuse University. For those of you who don't know, Panhellenic, sororities tend to be predominantly white. And so the first part of this two part series of lonely campus, did a little bit of a deeper dive into Alyssa and who she is as a person, and her reasons for wanting to do this work. And so if you haven't already, please go back and listen to the first part of this podcast series. I think it's important, again, to point out that this episode was recorded back in spring 2022. And it's important to recognize that sometimes creative projects have their own timeline. And so this podcast was delayed, but we feel that this conversation is still relevant and has potential to make an impact today. And finally, again, I think it's important to emphasize that this podcast was produced and facilitated by Alyssa herself, which is incredibly impressive. And so what results is a genuine, heartfelt, open and honest and real conversation that really captured their experiences at that time.

Alyssa 03:57
I want to start out by introducing you all to my guests. So we have Natalia here, who is a first year student at SU and then we have Nacy, who is the pan Halle recruitment share representative that we have today. I brought you all here to get a perspective and start up a dialogue about what it's like to be a person of color rushing a sorority at a PWI a PWI is a predominantly white Institute, and just be able to really discuss about what it is to go through that I didn't want to be the only perspective and then we have an AC here who's a part of the pan Halle board who is going to give that power or in charge perspective. So Syracuse is in New York if you guys don't know I'm guessing most people listening will probably be Syracuse students, about like, 30% just setting up context here. 30 The percent of Syracuse students partake in Greek life. So that's fairly normal. But I really wanted to see if there were statistics about how many people of color were in the sororities are frauds here, but there weren't any statistics. But we have about a 7% black population. And I think altogether, like 15 ish percent students who are people of color on campus. So break that down, it's probably not that many who are a part of sororities and frats here on the campus. So that's just putting things into context here. And I'm from Missouri, there's also context of if you guys want to go around and also stay where you guys are, because I feel like that definitely plays a part in how we think about sororities.

Natalia & Nacy 05:41
Yeah, I'm Natalia, and I'm from Pennsylvania.

And I'm Nacy. I'm from San Francisco

Alyssa 05:45
Yeah. So I feel like we also have a really good like diverse all over the map group of people here that and we all did rush just this semester, and then Nacy's, a senior. So we all have been through it, and through our different life paths all led us to Syracuse, and to a sorority here on campus. So I think it's going to be really interesting seeing what that was like. So back to the first question, what were your viewers as women of color rushing? Like, what were the things you were most fearing? Or were you scared? You know.

Natalia 06:17
I mean, I'm pretty sure I had the fears of like everyone else, but just like, not getting a bed is one of like, the biggest things that people like are afraid of, but as like a person of color, like I felt, I don't know. Because I like I feel like I'm a little bit different. A lot of people say I'm like, white passing, or like, some people are like, No, I can totally tell your Hispanics. I feel like I honestly could never tell where I like stand in that sense. So I was just hoping that like, they wanted me for me, and I wasn't going to be a diversity pic. And they didn't want me to like, just be there because I was part of a percentage, you know what I mean? So I definitely wanted them to see like my actual personality. And what I like brought to the table rather than like, what I looked like, even though like, it definitely plays a part in some way.

Alyssa 07:08
Yeah, I think that's an interesting also kind of perspective from you. Who do you do have, like, whiter skin? And I guess for some people, they might mistake you as just being white, but like, you want them to recognize it. You know, you don't want them to think you're white. And that's the reason why you're getting in. Yeah, but you don't want it to be all about that. You know. So I think that's an interesting perspective that you bring. I know, for me, that was a huge reason why I almost didn't rush. And hopefully a big part of the reason why I wanted to make this podcast was so that I could reach other women of color may be thinking about rushing on their campus, or even potential Syracuse students coming in this next upcoming fall, just to get this perspective. And here, honestly, because that was a huge fear on my part, I almost didn't rush at all. Because I was really, really worried that it would just Yeah, I would be a token, the token is a really a really good way to put it. Especially if you come if you're a person of color coming from a white community, you really do get out because I've gotten many times, you're not black Alyssa, like, that doesn't really count, you're not really black, because I'm mixed and have like straighter hair, or, you know, you kind of fit the acceptable version of what a black woman can be and fit in, in a white culture. And I just was really tired of having to fit in like that by and airy. And so coming from Missouri, especially to New York, I was really expecting it to be so different when it comes to race. And I think I was wrong. That was very naive of me to think that it would be this complete 360 inclusivity or inclusivity. And like respect and equity and and it was it you know, when I think that's something you kind of have to shift and I felt that and especially when it comes to an institution like that is predominantly white and being a person of color and placing yourself in that on purpose. It just comes with a lot, I think and I know Nacy You're not a woman of color, but I still want to hear your fears. I guess going in if you can remember back to your freshman year and how they aligned maybe or if when you were rushing, if you ever if you had friends who were women of color and you guys talked about this or even as like an ally. Have you noticed that? Yeah.

Nacy 09:36
One, there is definitely a general nervousness that goes through every freshman and sophomore, and even in some cases, juniors who go through recruitment. It's a massive process. There's 1000 Girls and you're meeting girls in 13 different houses and each of them is very, very different and you're trying to one adapt to college coming out of high school and I think that transition is difficult for anybody Regardless of if you went to like a prep school or public school, or a Catholic school or a Jewish predominantly Jewish school, I think there is all overall really difficult transition your first semester of college, it's kind of what I was talking to you guys about earlier. And then combined with that, you're going to this process that no matter how it's kind of conveyed, it is a process where there is rejection and rejection stings, no matter what form of rejection it is, and very, very few people have, like, you know, a perfect rush process. So I think me being a lot more introverted, at the time, as compared to me being a senior played a big part in it, because I kind of would see my friends who are these incredibly outgoing, like, light up the room type of people and I could be or in my head, I kind of just thought like, I'm not going to be that energy at every single one of these houses for hours a day. And then also just, you know, getting rejected, like that sucks. So I think that fear is pretty universal for everybody. And I obviously can't speak to the experiences of a woman of color. But I can only imagine that that rejection might feel as though there is another layer to it with your identity that I can't even experience. So for me to know that, you know, this process is really difficult. And that rejection stings like I can only imagine, or try to imagine the experiences of women of color or queer women. Anybody that's not wait straight.

Natalia 11:30
Yeah. What you just said about the layers of it, that's really, really important to point out, I think, because just the process of rush as a girl just speaks to, literally the most, I don't know, kind of judge meant, like, that's what you think about, you're literally being judged for the way you talk, the way you look, the way you behave, the way you set the way you dress, the way your hair is all day long, for two weekends in a row, basically. And no matter what you look like, as a woman, that's stressful, that's hard. That's anxiety inducing. And yeah, so to add the layer of being of not fitting into kind of what is the average or like typical sorority girl, whether that is your race, or your sexuality, or your gender identity, and like the way you express your clothing, or even the size that you are, all of those things are just added stresses. So I just think that's a really, really good point about it just is another layer, it just really is. I'd like to go into next breaking down the process that is rushing. I don't know, I know, I didn't really prep you nicely. But if you want to like because I know, you know this down if you want to break down what it is here at Syracuse University.

Nacy 12:58
Yeah, I wanted to ask you guys this, you guys went through recruitment? Yeah. So you probably had way too many emails from me. So recruitment, kind of as a whole does start before January. There's a lot that goes into it. But the kickoff of recruitment is what we call Expo, I don't know if you guys want it's not mandatory to go but it's pretty much October. It's kind of a open forum where you come to learn about Creek life, meet some of the women in the houses, learn about the rush process, what you need to do to register what the registration requirements are. The requirements are 12, a CEU credits, good judicial standing, a GPA of four point, or excuse me not. Yeah, no, we would have a lot less girls watching but a 2.5 GPA. And so all those things, you have to have to participate in recruitment. The 2.5 GPA requirement is a FAFSA rule. That's not an individual chapter rule. But there are certain chapters that raise that not too much higher, but definitely considerable, you know, 2.7 2.75, whatever. So that's what happens. And then we open registration right around that right around Expo. And so it's basically from October through the second at least, my cycle was second day of January. That was how long you had to register.

Alyssa 14:14
I don't mean to cut you off. But I do want to touch on Expo really fast because this brought up a really important thing to talk about. And for people listening, hopefully, if it's people who are parts of sororities, here's maybe a note to take, because this is just a memory I have so clearly of the expo from Fall of 2021. I remember I was so I went to Expo and I went with my friends and I listened. I remember going it's basically all of the chapters. I'll set the scene for you guys all 13 of our chapters here and as you kind of pile into this auditorium and have little stations set up with kind of merge and a poster board with pictures and they give a fast little like Ah about their sorority. And I remember the one thing I was looking for were girls that looked like me, there were about two or three girls at each station was a girl who looked like me. Oh, and if I didn't see that, because I think maybe I saw one girl who was black, and then that I was like, oh, okay, well, they only have two, three representatives here, like, so I looked at their poster boards with pictures. And I remember just scanning the pictures back and forth. Yeah, Natalia was with me, because I was like, this is just something that I really wanted to see. Because it was something I was really worried about. I was scanning the pictures to see if there were other girls who looked like me on the pictures. And that was I'm gonna be honest, I'm not gonna lie like, that was a setback for me, in wanting to rush was going to the Expo, and just the lack of diversity and my lack of girls who look like me, it was just, it was kind of sad, I don't know. And I just feel like when it comes to this process, knowing these things from like the other end, so like, the girls who set up for the expo, like, knowing that potential new members are, are actually looking at those things in like, even like, the tiniest details could bring comfort to a girl who's rushing and a or a woman of color, who's rushing, I think is important. And it is like tiny things like that, that I think a lot of times people don't even notice. But when you are like in a marginalized groups Group, it is the tiny things that become big things, because you kind of read between the lines, and just at the end of the day, seeing people who look like you in a place that you want to be a part of, is so important. It's it is that layer, I mean, their whole reason why girls want to be a part of a sorority, is because it's a bunch of girls like it's a bunch of people who are like them they're hoping to find and connect with. And a big reason why I feel like most white girls feel that connected to sororities and rushing is because that's just a place that was made for them. It so they just feel drawn to and comfortable in it. So as a woman of color, you are aware that historically, it's wasn't a placement for you. I mean, women of color literally had to make other places like that the divine nine, you know, other places like that for them, because they were not welcome. And those roots up, you know, the history behind that, that matters. And you can still kind of feel that, and that is why still they are predominantly white chapters anywhere, you know. And so it's kind of hard to want to put yourself in a position where there's just zero people who look like you, or that's just how it is. That's just the comfortability level. So if you're listening chapters of Syracuse, maybe next year, if you have diversity, it's not like, it's not about forcing it. But it is about like knowing that, you know, it's the same thing with Instagram's. For the chapters, I feel like, like, just know that, that matters. Seeing people that look like you that are part of these houses, it really makes a big difference.

Natalia 18:21
I remember when we went to Expo and we were talking all the houses and I remember this particular chapter specifically made it known to me that they have like a really large, like Latina community. And I was like, Oh, this is like really fun and like exciting that they like, also like realize that yeah, like, I definitely felt like seen and like that way. Like I remember going around Expo Expo, it's crazy in the first place. Talking to like, like I was scared to like talk to certain girls, like I just wanted to scan the code and leave. It was just very, like overwhelming and like, but that specific chapter. I definitely, like had a conversation with them. Like I remember like, yeah, I don't know what im trying to say.

Alyssa 19:04
I get what you're saying. Because you're saying that it's nice to feel seen. And you don't want your rush process to be so detail oriented about your race or your color. Like you don't want that to be the defining thing throughout your rushing, but you want it to be acknowledged like it's still a part of who you are. It's not the whole that you are, but it's still an important part that is really nice to have recognized and valued. Yeah, I definitely get what you're saying.

Nacy 19:39
And I appreciate you saying that about because I completely agree with you. And I think after like I shadow my position during COVID last year, of course was entirely virtual so it was Expo. And so kind of as Expo was happening immediately my brain was like in hardware like this should be two days, six and then seven or whatever. One of the There, it should be much more split up, it was super overwhelming. I remember my freshman year, it was similar to that. But I think freshman year was so far removed that when we were planning Expo, I didn't think about my feelings as a freshman. And I wish I had kind of talked to maybe freshmen two years ago, the last people that did Expo in person, because I totally recommended to my incoming recruitment chair, that it should be a two day thing, you'd have more of an opportunity to talk to more women and also just feel like a lot less overwhelmed. And the other thing I was going to say is that, I think a lot of what you're saying is, at least what I can tell you on my end, again, Pan Hall is is the executive board, but we don't have like intimate control over what everybody does. And I think that's important to acknowledge, just because it's almost like I wish in some ways, we had more control over certain scenarios. But at the end of the day, like we are the last kind of Birdseye when something really goes wrong. And that's when we step in, but most complex and most issues about inclusivity, and stuff like that, at first and foremost is handled within particular individual chapters before it kind of gets to us. But based on what you were saying, and like I totally agree with you, I think even the little things having one of the three girls that are at EXPO to be a woman of color, and like they're even just the little poster boards or anything else that that is kind of displayed for the first time when freshmen and sophomores are coming in and seeing these sororities for the first time. A lot of that goes to the leadership within the house. I can't speak to everybody that was at EXPO but what I can tell you is one of every three girls per house was the recruitment chair. And the recruitment chair plans their table at Expo and same with the Instagram like that's an executive board member on every at every chapter. So stuff like that, it kind of shows the importance of making sure that your exec boards and your women in power in your chapters are diverse and hold at least the very least hold values of diversity inclusion very highly in it because that's not just a DI chairs problem. That's the PR chair, they recruitment chair, the president, the philanthropy chair, like all of the little the positions, and I'm sure you guys, I'm not quite sure if all of you are in chapters. But if you are, you're going to kind of learn more about all these positions, you're going to see how much power you have in those positions, which is why it's so important to keep your values close no matter if you're the D chair or not. Because that's not the DI chairs responsibility to teach an entire 200 Girl whatever Chapter How to be inclusive like that is not there.

Alyssa 22:37
Definitely not, definitely not. Thank you that was that was really, really good. I guess if you want to go back to what the next release, summarize what the next kind of three steps would be or three weeks were.

Nacy 22:48
So yeah, you'd get your row gamma groups Euro gammas would reach out to you guys, I hope you guys had good experiences with Eero gammas. They are got they do go through, I think four months of training, not even more than that. They really, really are. I think they meet twice a week are pretty much three to four months getting ready for these conversations kind of like getting prepped, whatever you guys meet with them. And then the second week of school is when rush kicked off, we had to kick off on Thursday, which was virtual. And we had our speaker Lauren, who's amazing her second year here, I would recommend her for any speaking opportunity at Syracuse. But besides the point then after that round one is Friday and Saturday, it's one round split into two days. So you'll see all 13 across those two days. And then round two, which is the longest day of Rush is Sunday, the Sunday following so you'd see a maximum of 10 houses and that's the round where houses are expected to talk about their philanthropies and kind of make it known where their money is going to because every house does donate to a national philanthropy. I'm sure you guys have figured that one find out. And then the following Friday is House tours and you'd go back to a maximum of six. So that's when you get the opportunity to take a tour of the house girls in the house to kind of show you what the House has to offer as long as as well as having a little bit more intimate conversations. And then Saturday is preference round where you'd go back to a maximum of two houses have a full hour long conversation intimate really kind of getting down to why you mutually see each other. They see you in the house and why you feel like you see yourself in the house and then Sunday's Bid Day, which is when the PNM is now new members up in their beds and then they get to go take a deep breath

Natalia 24:33
for the first time in three weeks. Yeah, it's yeah, that was a good summary. No, yeah, that was a really, really good summary. And I just wanted that also to contextualize what we're going to continue talking about when we talk about like round one Go Greek or run to philanthropy or like pref bit day so you guys kind of understand if you're not a part of Greek life here on Su, what we're talking about when we refer to those things. So let's go into RA On one, which is go Greek so I know from my go Greek experience grueling is the word I want to say even with it on Zoom, it is just do raining, to have back to back to back to back three two minute conversations with three ish girls from each house. It is oh my gosh, like

Nacy 25:24
I cannot imagine doing that a person like running No, no, I

Natalia 25:27
Yeah. And I think honestly had the best of it. Person cuz yeah running and doing that and it was like a snow storm when we were doing it here. It was horrible. Yeah, it was really bad. I know. I'll start off. I know, going into the first round for me, I think was really defining and my rush process because I really came in with opposite biases kind of backward bias is about the house, the houses, they say not to listen to outside, but it's impossible not to listen to your heart with things like Yik Yak and Greek rank, like, let's be honest, like, who likes to go into something with not knowing anything like that's just not human, like, you want to you want to know what's going on you. You want to do your research, and people do and you hear things also. And

Nacy 26:19
even if you try to come in with like, no, everyone's time was telling you things you're like, alright, well, yeah,

Natalia 26:25
it's almost impossible, because I really prided myself on that for a long

Nacy 26:29
time you like went into the restaurant just knowing like, knowing

Natalia 26:31
that I couldn't have even named you all 13 houses, I literally couldn't have like, like, I really went in blind. Because for a long time, I didn't think I was gonna do it just because of my fears. And kind of, like I said, I'm from Missouri, the Greek culture, there is just really not something I wanted to be a part of as a woman of color. And I was just really worried that it would bring me backwards kind of in where I felt that I was mentally and where I feel how I feel about myself and my blackness. And I just thought it would might bring me backwards. And that I was just a fear for me. Like, I'll just be honest, it was a huge fear. But I decided to do it and go Greek, like I said, was the defining moment, I was like, okay, like, let's go into this. Like I said, I had my opposite biases, the kind of the houses that I heard were maybe top houses, but when you hear top houses, it also associates with bad like with kind of really toxic culture at the same time. So it's like, Okay, those are houses I do not want to be a part of. And then I do go Greek, which is over two days, and I had an amazing conversation with the same houses that I thought would be horrendous, horrible like that. I don't want to get you too excited by me saying that, because I think that's an important thing to say and to warn. Everybody kind of has a full circle moment that you have to realize rushing that you're going to be fed what they want you to hear what they want you to see what they want you to feel. They don't, I can't speak for every house. But I do know some houses do back around research on you before so they know who to replace you with like it is not random things like your feet, you feel lovely and amazing, because they're trained to make you feel that way. And they they really are. So I just think that's important to point out because looking back at it, I was like I had this like silly Cinderella moment. I'm like, oh my god, like, maybe I was so wrong. Like, this is just so great. And it actually took me a lot longer than Greek ground to realize that that was not the truth. But yeah,

Nacy 28:46
I think it would be really interesting for you to re record kind of a part two to this after you guys all get to be on the other side of it a year from now because when I was a sophomore at same thing, Cinderella was another girl from the Bay Area. Now sophomore year when you guys will learn this, I'm not going to spill any of the beans for you because it's more honestly funny that way when you realize how much goes into it, it is so meticulous and it's that actually isn't that kind of a negative word to use. But it is so planned, like as kind of in my position as the director of the recruitment chairs. I am so proud of every single one of them because they put in words like that is essentially a part time job that you don't get a single dollar out of and that they put in a lot of work and I have the utmost respect for every single one of the 13 of them that I worked with throughout the semester and I would be interested to kind of hear like how you feel about it a year from now. Maybe because it is a totally different ballgame if if anything like you're more nervous on the other side than as a freshman because you've been training and you're Like, I don't want to screw this up like it's a different set of nerves on either end. But there is definitely a whole different kind of set of emotions that comes with being on the side of the actual recruiter. And I think it's a stark difference and I don't know I think you guys are gonna find it like one a little bit of funny and also like very stressful.

Alyssa 30:19
Yeah, that's that's a really good point.

Natalia 30:23
I don't know my go Greek experience. I feel like I felt the same way. Like I had like these things like, this house does this. I don't want to be associated with that. And then like finishing go Greek. I was like, I had such good conversations with like, every single chapter and I was like, oh my god, this is like crazy. Finishing go Greek. I was like, very confident. I was like, oh my god, I had all these amazing conversations it honestly like yeah, it was like that Cinderella moment, I was like, oh my god, like, and definitely I was very nervous when I like, went to like my first like house like on Zoom. And then after that, I definitely, like got more comfortable and everything. But yeah, it's just, that's that's where like, that's your high. Yeah, once you start getting cut it just all downhill from Um,

Alyssa 31:06
I also want to ask before we go to the next round, do you feel when you were doing the Zooms who you were talking to? Did you see a lot of people that were diverse in that looked like you, I feel like

Nacy 31:18
I dont even remember. I remember the first house I went to the first girl I literally talked to the whole process. I knew her. That yeah, that actually made me felt like a little bit more comfortable. Because I like knew who I was talking to. Honestly, I remember like one chapter that stands out to me a lot that I didn't talk to a single blonde girl. And that's like a chapter I feel like is known for that, that I remember thinking that. And then for other chapters, I do remember seeing other diverse people, not necessarily Hispanic, but other like, people of color, like talking to me. So I've everything's flat.

Natalia 31:56
Yeah, and I just wanted to touch on this because I know for me, I spoke to as many women of color as I did white girls, and I think that was something that was really, really nice for me, and something that got me excited and kind of kept me in this tunnel vision, perfect land that was like, Oh, I'm seeing a lot of diversity, it's so hard because you don't want it to be the full experience is that, like, Oh, I'm a person of color. So I'm like, I'm only talking to people of color, because that's not what it is. That's not the reality of the sorority that you're going to be joining. It's not going to only be people of color, just because they gave you their three out of 15, you know, women of color. That is such a struggle. And I just wanted to say it really is like, you want to be recognized for that. But you don't want that to be the only feature that they're paying attention to.

Nacy 32:51
Yeah, yeah. When we get on the topic of like getting cut, that's also a thing I like felt like I struggled with because, like you honestly really have no idea why. And that's like, that's another thing I'm like, I never want to go straight to Oh, it's because I was this I'm that. But you never know. And

Alyssa 33:08
that's just a natural part of being a person of color is having in the back of your mind, that that could be a reason why and that's a vet, like, you can't say that that's stupid, or like don't invalidate your feelings. Because that's a valid feeling to feel that's just a weight that you have to carry being a person of color. Living in a predominantly white world like is that having in the back of your mind, you're not getting this, you didn't hit it off with this person. But because you're, you're the color that you are, you're the race that you are and the person that you were talking to wasn't and it's unconscious biases that even the person talking to, you might not have even realized that they didn't want you back for that reason, just because it's that like deep rooted and people connect with people who've had similar experiences. And if it's 80% white people, they're gonna connect more with other white people. You know, like, That's just fact. And I also think that's important to recognize when you are on the side of you're in the house and you're talking to PNM is, I don't know, maybe Nacy can speak on this. But if there is like diversity training, and like, how the girls are trained to handle that, and maybe start becoming conscious of those biases that they hold so deep, because that can really affect the way that they talk to people the way that they connect. And it really is like an unconscious thing. So it's really, it's just really about making them aware and I feel like training. I don't know if you guys maybe you guys do have training. Yeah,

Nacy 34:47
I mean, I can only speak for my chapter. Okay, of course, I can tell you I'm fairly certain that every house does participate in some sort of diversity training. I know my house does. Some of them are set At Bipin Hill others, which in my opinion of the ones that I've participated in or attended, the ones that my chapter set up, individually, were almost sometimes more interesting because one of the ones upin, hell sets up. It's a lot of girls in one room. And it's really easy, regardless of the topic of discussion, to check out if you're in the back of a lecture hall with another 400 girls in the room. But yes, as far as I'm concerned, and definitely with my chapter, diversity training is really important. And I, again, can only speak from my chapter, but I know the women in my chapter do take that to heart. And I think there's a lot of just minor not, you know, official trainings that really help with the entire chapters, culture, definitely. Little things like shouting out holidays that, you know, typical white person wouldn't know, exactly shouting out holidays, and having just conversations like identity conversations and identity.

Natalia 35:59
Kind of like workshops also, just like informal, like, let's talk about, yeah,

Alyssa 36:04
I know, summer 2020. I was a sophomore, when we got sent home because of COVID. And I remember, obviously, that's when everything erupted after George Floyd. And I remember being really proud that I was in a sorority that even though we were all in different places in the world, going through a lot mentally, that we were able to kind of have these conversations and get on Zoom and just kind of be like, hey, like, let's talk about what's going on in the world. Because all of us are 1819 2021 22, like we are adults. And it is so important if you want to be kind of an contributing member of society to have a well rounded idea of what's going on. Because even if you can't physically put yourself in the shoes of a woman of color, you still have a responsibility to educate yourself and million persons. So you can be an active ally, not just somebody that wants to be an ally, so they can throw something on their Instagram.

Natalia 36:53
That's a beautiful point that you just read

Nacy 36:56
about that the other day, just about like

Alyssa 36:59
The performative newness that you feel. And I feel like really, when you're rushing, it's very easy to get lost in like we were saying kind of the beauty of it and like, you kind of have to stop yourself and read between the lines. And I think, as we pivot into the next round, which is philanthropy, I think. And then the next one, which is House tours, where we actually got to meet the girls and the house, those walls kind of fall down and you get to actually start seeing the reality of things and not just kind of a zoom breakout room. That's one two people and I feel like it gave a lot better of a feel to feel like you would see through things a lot quicker. I don't know if you guys have anything really specific about philanthropy or you said you wanted to talk about how it was to be taught and thinking about your race.

Nacy 37:51
I remember finishing go great, I was high I was like, oh my god, I'm gonna get called back to all my top 10. No.

Alyssa 38:01
Reality for everybody like listening. If you're rush, you probably won't get all houses back every time. That's very rare. Like

Nacy 38:09
I remember getting cut. And at first I was like, I didn't like cry. Like I remember like, other people cried and stuff

Alyssa 38:18
People do cry. It's hard. They tried to do the motto. It's redirection, not rejection.

Natalia 38:25
I didn't never approved people saying that on the record. I never thought that was helpful. or anything. I thought that was like, trying to sugarcoat something that genuinely sucks. And I didn't have a perfect rush process. Like I was very upset round two round three like so I never approved the redirection what

Alyssa 38:48
I'm really not really swirled around rejection in the moment is appear early, just rejection, you know, looking back at it now we can all obviously say that it was very much redirecting us exactly where we were supposed to be. But in the moment, you don't need to,

Nacy 39:04
like at the time I was like, oh my god, now that I'm done with it, and even like prep that day. I was like, yeah, like looking back. I can't even imagine myself in those houses, like, Thank God, you know what I mean? But at the time, I was like, I didn't cry, like I said, but it definitely was rejection. But I think because they like did it. You got your schedule, and then you started philanthropy, like 10 minutes later

Alyssa 39:25
Yeah there was really no time to cry or process your emotions, you would instantly put back on a smile and fix your mascara and say, Hey,

Nacy 39:33
honestly, I felt like I felt like that helped me more because now I was focused on like, the houses I wasn't even thinking about that. And I was focusing on that so much that by the end of philanthropy, like like, who cares like I'm focusing on this now and I got cut after go Greek but I didn't after any of the other ones which I felt was looking back was just so much better, like at least after a five minute conversation like I can't take it that personally but I can can't even imagine getting to like House tours or to press and then getting cut know that that would like actually, like, kill me.

Alyssa 40:07
Yeah, we could have a whole different podcast episode about what it is to just pit yourself against other women and this kind of

Nacy 40:18
like even it's it's actually so bad like I remember thinking like how does she get the house? It's awful things

Alyssa 40:24
You find yourself getting very negative and competitive?

Nacy 40:29
Yes. And now like that we finished in a house who cares?

Alyssa 40:33
Yeah, like exactly going into the next round, which is House tours, which was our first round that was in person. As I was saying, I think that's when things really got real and your head kind of get out of the clouds, you know, you kind of come back to Earth. And you're, you're met with Okay, so this is the reality of things. And I'll also speak to my experience, because I just think it's really important to just be honest about, you know what it is to rush here and what you're going to expect, especially as a woman of color, because it is just a completely different experience. I know I went to 10 houses for six Wait, how makes for house fix for House tours. So back to back to back to back running and the literal little lizard was a blizzard, I remember that I went to a house that was one of my top houses for a while through this whole process. And House tours was when I first got the glimpse that okay, maybe I was fed kind of a different maybe I was fed what they wanted me to see, which was diversity and was things that I made very clear during I think, I think that's a reason why leading up to it, I had such an amazing process because I really did not sugarcoat what I wanted out of the experience. Like I was like, This is me, I don't want to do this and be in a place that I feel uncomfortable, intimidated, and that I don't have a space or voice. I didn't like I literally think I said that. During the first round when there were only three minutes. Like that's what I used my three minutes to talk about. So literally cut me if that's not you. And then like I get in the house tours, and I feel like they couldn't kept keep feeding you the tunnel, because like I said, it's you're no longer in a Zoom Room, you're in the house, you can see every girl that's in the house. And you can see Oh, those are the three girls that I've talked to, well, those are the only three girls who look like me in the sorority, like, wait, and you kind of start putting things together. And I that's not to throw like shade or bad energy. But I just think it's important to be aware of that throughout your process. And it's the same thing like the girls who I talked to during House tours, you feel you don't want to be fed only the women of color, like only the only women of color that you have in there, the only people you're giving me to talk to because we're not stupid, like we're not dumb you we can see your house and that. Obviously it's 5% or lower than that, like women of color. Like you guys said, it's like a poll, like you want some representation. But you don't want it to be like a fake, like, obviously unreal expectation of what you're going to go into come into the house. And I remember remember, I had one conversation that just really stuck out to me about this. I mean, I'm just gonna say it because you know, if there needs to be edited out, like I'm not going to drop names. But this is the reason why I wanted to have this podcast, it just is. I remember one house that I went to sat me down and I talked to the DI from the house, who was a woman of color. I shouldn't say obviously because I guess sometimes there are ideas that aren't but she was a woman of color. And I appreciated getting to talk to women of color. And we really connected about kind of our fears as women of color rushing. And she told me that the house that she was in this house was where she experienced her first ever true genuine racism. And she said it in a way that she was trying to kind of show that like, this is what it has been. And we're getting better like we're working on it. But I'm not gonna lie like that freaked me out like hearing that. It just It freaked me out that that was my first instinct. My first instinct isn't like, Oh, I'm sure it's so much better now. Like, because you said it's like, oh, no, that's kind of oh, that's kind of concerning. Um, and that was one of the houses that I walked into. And I was it was okay, there's not a lot of girls that look like me but okay, and, and I remember just I that was just running through my mind the whole day like it still runs through my mind like today truthfully. I'm just thinking about that. And I don't know if you guys have, I mean, obviously, probably not as because I was having like some real deep conversations. But like, if you remember going to house tours and seeing, like feeling a shift in certain houses like, oh, like, I was kind of like fed just what they wanted me to see, you know?

Nacy 45:21
Yeah i do remember house tours, I felt like in house tours, I wasn't really focused on like, looking at other girls like me, but the conversations and like the, like the sisterhood, I guess, and like how they interacted with each other. That is like the main thing that I looked for. But I guess also in that sense, how they interact with each other, I guess like diversity also, like kind of plays a part in my, like, two houses that ended up pressing there were like, my top two, since philanthropy, so I kind of knew which ones I wasn't gonna go back to. And like, what's gonna be like, my top? I guess there was, I don't know, because those are my top from the beginning. So it wasn't really like a shift. In those, I guess, I guess in others, like, I was like, yeah, no, I knew felt Yeah. Yeah, I remember my last house of that day, because I was a long day. I was just like, even though I was tired, I'm sure the girls were too but I was just like, I kept like, trying, and it just like, wasn't happening. And I was like, ya know,

Alyssa 46:20
like, the conversation just wasn't, like,

Nacy 46:23
I told you how I went to the bathroom and hit. I was like, I can't keep this conversation going anymore.

Alyssa 46:27
And its also like, back to the kind of like, oh, like, Why do some Why are some people really into the conversations? And why's this girl who's supposed to be talking to me? Like really not in the conversation? Like into the conversation and back again, to when you're a woman of color? A thing that's gonna pop up in your mind as Oh, is it because I'm not white? Like, is it because I'm black and like, so they don't really want to talk to me with the same enthusiasm as they want to talk to the other girls who look like them and who look like the other girls in the sorority.

Nacy 46:58
Honestly, I had that thought I my last house, because like that whole day, I didn't have that thought. And then she just like, wasn't it? And I was like, No, she's just tired. You're tired. I was like, but maybe you still like you never know I just but I guess all sudden house was like I wasn't really focused on like, race was more of just like, ranking them. Like, this is what you have to do. Like figuring out which ones I can see myself that and I guess like subconsciously, I guess that was like a part of like, seeing like, race and everything. But yeah, I guess I was like so into like my conversations. I wasn't like the forefront of my thoughts. It's,

Alyssa 47:28
it's interesting, because we obviously all had like different experiences. But we also went to different houses, which I think also plays a major role in our comfortability level as women of color and certain houses. But yeah, I mean, you guys obviously kind of had better, not as traumatizing like moments as I did. But I also just, I just made it really clear, like, and I like that was just a conversation I had to have with every single girl that I've talked to you at every single house. Because where I come from, like, I just for a lot of my life ignored the black nests, and like, just assimilated into the whiteness, because I'm half black and half white. And I'm, I just am so done doing that. So I'm glad you guys are in a place and your ethnicity and race that you like, feel comfortable to not be analyzing that. But like I just I'm not at that space yet. And so that was just the first thing that I was wanting to pick apart at each house because I just had been so forced from where I come from just into kind of, I don't know, just a bad feeling about myself and a bad connection. I don't know, I don't know. But yeah, I know, we can move on to press front. And for me pref I had narrowed it down to two. And I was really, really on the edge about one because it was the house that I had this conversation about race and racism in the house, but I kind of like internalized it in a way that was I'm glad that they brought it up. Like at least we're talking about that because I'd rather have the discussion. And it'd be kind of uncomfortable then gloss over it, you know, and not even address something that's obviously real like and that's obviously happening. And so that was kind of the mindset that I went into it with, but then I went back and it just kind of got to a point about feeling at certain houses like that there were certain houses that wanted us because we fit the acceptable black woman mold archetype because we strain our hair and you know, like and we talk a certain way and dress a certain way and were raised a certain way that you fit this mold that is oh like that's the kind of black girl we would take you know and that really is at some houses a mentality I did feel and was noticeable. And yeah, she she fits the vibe like even though she's black, and it's harmful and you can feel it like you being a woman of color, you feel that we're not ignorant to that. And I just feel like that's important also to say, again, because I think a lot of it is like unconscious bias that, okay, you are wanting to make your chapter more diverse and more inclusive, because maybe you lack that right now. And you're wanting to make a shift in a positive direction. But then you need to really like take it a step further than, you know, just acknowledging that you want diversity, but like understanding what that means, and not putting diversity in a box that still works for you, and you the image you want to portray, because you can feel that like you can just feel the insincerity that is in that. And I know, obviously, like you could see through that. And we saw through that. And that was a huge reason why I went to the house that I did, and didn't go to certain other houses, because it's just it is harmful. Like I remember also on Prep, I had a conversation. And it was basically like, again, about kind of the lack of like diversity in the house and how she was feeling about that. And I was like, well, where would my place be here. And I don't know, it kind of just sounded like she wanted to pass the torch down to me to continue this fight for diversity in their house. And I get that, and I think that it came from a good place. And I loved this girl, like we connected so deeply. But I left Missouri, because I was tired of telling white people why they should care about me, and why they should care about other people of color. And I just don't think that that should be a burden placed on to any girl who wants to be a part of anything, whether it's a sorority or anything, like you shouldn't go and being like, Okay, well, I'm really gonna have to fight to be heard and to be respected and to feel included. And you know, maybe it's not always like that. And I really also do believe that there's pockets of good and everything in every house, even in this house that I'm talking about lots of pockets of good, but there are pockets of bad also in every single house and everything, there are pockets of bad and it just kind of weighing that. And I just think it's so important to be aware of all of these different aspects, when you're rushing as a person of color as a woman of color. And when you're on the other side, because the worst thing ever would be to go through at all. Get on the other side and get a bed and you feel so small and like, Oh my God, what did I do? Like I was really fed. This one sided, like everything that I wanted kind of and now it's Oh, I don't even feel like I can talk to these girls. Oh, like, there's literally two other people that look anything like me are Oh, like, there's nobody that loves like me, you know, like, I would cry like and that's just not even representative of the world. Like that's another really big thing for me is why would you want to be in a space that is all one person. Because that's not setting you up for a realistic life experience. The world is diverse, you know, grownups be come after college, you're going to be in a workforce, you're going to be working with people, customers, clients, patients who are going to not look like you like you can't be only used to Oh, no, like, you can't be used to only people who look like you. And I think it's also really hard when you get into a culture of kind of girls who look one way and you're like, Ooh, I want to like we should shift like we really need to be making a change. And it is harder to then make that change. Because that is just something that you're looking for. You are looking for girls who look like you know,

Nacy 53:55
yeah, like I remember like, even today, I'm always just like, I wish I was blonde. I realize I'm trying to straight hair. Like it's just like, Yeah, I don't know. It's just like such like a battle of like, in like my self esteem of like, I don't even know, like,

Natalia 54:11
blondes are iffy

Alyssa 54:15
what, what it means to be like, feminine what it means to be woman. Feminine. It equals woman and woman equals sorority.

Nacy 54:24
Have you guys heard like people like from home be like, oh, like you didn't look like the sorority type. I've heard that so many times. I'm like, What's that mean? Like? I'm like, i mean

Alyssa 54:35
mean, I never got that just because I was very like whitewashed in my mind. Honestly, me too.

Nacy 54:41
Like, like, all my friends back home were white. Like, same thing as you like. I don't know. I've gotten that before. Oh, that's really tight.

Alyssa 54:50
Yeah, in high school. I was on the cheer team. I had the biggest best like, Girl friend group of her and I was like, this is definitely something I'm going to do when I'm in College because it's that it's wanting to feel connected to other women, you know, it's and then it gets turned into kind of, what do you look like and all these things? Yeah.

Nacy 55:12
I'm happy that Alyssa, you have this podcast because part of the reason I took my position and I encourage you guys, whether it's pan haul or your own exact words or exact words in other organizations, I encourage you to take leadership positions, even if it scares you, because there's a lot of talk, you know, like, yes, 100% Greek life is rooted in oppressive systematic discrimination and girls that and and boys girls and boys and they he's and cheese and days and gays and everybody should be very well aware of the history of Greek life, because that gives you context like this kind of a theme that we've been talking about is the context of all this. And then instead of now, you know, the context. Now you you've had your experience rushing as women of color, and now it's okay, how can I help my chapter and help the overall community open up its doors even wider, because part of the reason again, that I took this position is like, I don't like hearing like, Oh, screw Greek life, like, let's just abolish it like no, there has to be reformed some way to adapt to the way society is today, and still hold all of the amazing benefits of being in a sorority, and you guys are only two, three weeks in, but you're gonna, you're you, I'm sure you've already made good friends. And you've already kind of understood that mentor mentee relationship that you can have with a lot of the older girls in your sororities, and the networking and just that, the chance to experience really cool things with really cool people. So it's like, you don't want to get rid of that community, especially at a big school like Syracuse. And I can't even imagine going to like California. So like a giant use. Greek life does give you a community and like it was important is making sure that community is open and very, very safe for any woman who decides to be a part of it.

Alyssa 57:00
And I think you hit it right on the head of literally why I wanted to make this podcast for other women like getting an idea of what it really is like to go through the process, the good and the bad, and the in between and kind of navigating it for yourself. And as a woman of color, and also giving insight on the other side, just like hey, here, here's some women of color who have done it, who worked with you on the other side. And this is the kind of the things we have to say about it, these are the critiques, these are the like, claps here are the in between things that maybe you guys because reform, like what you were just saying, making it better, because truly what Greek life and sororities are rooted and, you know, oppression and racism also. But it's also rooted in you know, it's simultaneously pointing out calling out the bad and saying, Oh, that this is good. Like we can work with this and make it better. And that's what it is about the the history of sororities calling out the lack of diversity and inclusivity. But recognizing the power and sisterhood, and yeah, I agree. Yeah. And so let's take the sisterhood part and shut the door on the the other like the bad things. And obviously, we've come a long, long way. But there can always be steps forward. Like even in 2022, there can be steps forward there, like we were talking about, there can be more training, there can be more in diversity always. And I feel like a big part of why there is a lack of diversity is because a lot of diverse women are scared to be a part to put themselves in a place that is so historically white and is just a place made for white people, it's really hard to put yourself in that position. Especially if you did not grow up around white people, us we all grew up around white people and and it is scary. So imagine, you know, coming from a black family, a black community, you would run the other direction. And it's sad, because it's obviously understandable why you would, but then you also have to recognize what you're losing, you know, like this whole group of people are this experience. And it's sad because you Why should you have to lose that, you know, why should you feel like you have to lose that and that's where this comes in and discussing what we can be doing better to make women of color and marginalized women feel more comfortable coming into the space and that's what I really was wanting through this discussion and through the chapters here on this campus to hear us who just uh, rushed with you guys and just went through the whole experience and we're being honest right now. It's like these are the things we really liked and these are the things you guys can be doing better To be making people like us feel more comfortable. So you can get more people like us because we rock. You know what, like, diversity makes everything better? Like, it's just Why do you want to be you know, like so make a space that really is genuinely not performatively, but genuinely inclusive and comfortable and respectful and not only recognizes diversity, and once it values it, values it values it and goes out and finds it and goes out of its way and goes out of their way to make women of color feel comfortable in a place that historically wasn't made for them.

Nacy 1:00:39
Yeah, you're just walking the walk, like holding yourselves accountable. It's not all about what can we do in the next five years. But it's like what happened in the past three years that we haven't talked about it that we haven't really addressed that we tried to shove under the rug like, it would be in my opinion, again, I'm not a woman of color. And then you'd love to hear your opinions on this. But at least in my case, like I if there was like an incident of a girl in my house that was racially motivated, or just discriminative in any way, shape, or form that happened two, three years ago, and I didn't know about it, I'd be pissed, I'd be like, Why wasn't that something that I'm a senior now, we were not aware of like that should be an open dialogue and that there should be consequences for that. Because if you're going to build these inclusive spaces, you have to have ways to hold people accountable. Because not every single girl that you invite into your house is going to be perfect, but you have to hold. Like my whole thing. The whole time I've had this position like being in a sorority is a privilege. So if you can't live up to what your sorority is saying they value, you don't have a place they're like, it doesn't matter if your mom was in the sorority doesn't matter if you wanted to be in a sorority all of high school, like there are plenty of other girls that want to be in sororities that aren't going to behave with hate or discriminated or discriminate. Discriminatory discriminatory, action, stuff like that. Like if you're going to act like that you don't have a place, especially here at Syracuse, which is a school that is working really hard, I think, to change some of the entire culture that is, you know, diversity and being a person of color at Syracuse. So that's my two cents. Like I think there has to be open, firm, transparent consequences for when issues arise around DI.

Alyssa 1:02:26
definitely speaking about it, you know, not pretending that it didn't happen, because that is one way right there to invalidate women of colors, experiences and feelings and invalidate their place in the house.

Nacy 1:02:38
If we get to pref I have a couple of words on that. Oh, yeah, we if we do next we have prep.

Alyssa 1:02:42
Yeah and next we have prep

Nacy 1:02:45
Do you want me to go first?

Alyssa 1:02:45
Yeah.

Nacy 1:02:48
pref I remember first house first round and I had a huge gap. And then it was my second house. And definitely I thought I was looking for people of color in that situation. Both of the girls that I've talked about these two houses I talked to you before, they were all white, which I didn't like problem with that, but I remember like crying at my second house leaving in like tears because I didn't know what I was gonna do. And it was a really hard decision or talking about rho gamma. And then I found out she was in the house that I didn't choose which was awkward.

Natalia 1:03:23
Exactly. Me and my breakdown.

Nacy 1:03:26
But yeah, it was just like it was very like overwhelming and like that second house because I think I also came in with the fact that the first house I went to I was going to that house. Then when I went to that second house, they really did surprise me that came up from behind. But it was yeah, it was such like an emotional day for no reason and I don't consider myself a crier at all. So the fact that I like had basically a breakdown in front of all those people was really embarrassing. I like talking about I don't know it was it was definitely like a day that like caught me by surprise, but I was thinking about race in that aspect. I didn't really get to see a lot of diversity because I was only talking to one girl but I definitely like it solidified of what like their sisterhood was enough for me to like choose the house that I chose.

Alyssa 1:04:14
Yeah to wrap up what you guys are trying to say as you use rushing especially when you get into the more personal and longer conversations use it to be real honest and raw, take that opportunity and make it meaningful from the PNM side and from the member side. Because that's what girls want actually we came for not kind of shallow girl friendships but like real meaningful life changing sounds cheesy but it's true life changing women to feed off of and learn from and grow like you really read read and see through kind of fakeness or and sincerity. Yeah, I'm really glad that we got got to sit down. And hopefully maybe this was even therapeutic. And thank you so much Nacy for bringing your perspective. And because it's really, I really did want to hear like a panel and also a senior who's been through it kind of their perspective on everything. And I just really want everybody listening to know that the point of this is that we can make it better. It's not, it hasn't been perfect, it will never be perfect, but we can make it a lot better than it is right now. And I think having conversations is where change starts. And that's where we literally just all sat down. And did we just all sat down and shared with each other deep, emotional, meaningful experiences and thoughts through this process that a lot of people go through. And I know for me, I would have loved to have something like this. I'll be like, Oh, thank you for being real and honest, talking about things that need to be talked about. So I don't have to get my information through word of hand or Yeah, yeah. I just think that's so important. And I want to leave it off. Also, with just asking everybody, the process was hard. It was up and down roller coaster. There were times you didn't know if you wanted to do it as women of color, but would you do it again? And do you love the house that you decided to go in?

Nacy 1:06:27
I absolutely would not do that again.

Alyssa 1:06:34
Do it again to go to the house that you're in.

Natalia 1:06:37
It was just like, so like stressful. Days, like even now, I just felt like I haven't had a weekend to just like, relax. And like, I'm like, I'm like it's because I rush. You know, if I didn't rush it, I was like, I love the house that I'm in. But I definitely wouldn't do it again. It's very like, it's humbling self degrading, like, like my self esteem. Definitely. Like I mean, definitely went down during it. But yeah, even for the house I was in which I love. I don't think I would. It's it's a really grueling process.

Alyssa 1:07:10
But I mean, I am not going to cut this out. Because was that the answer I wanted or expected? No, but it's the honest answer. And that's important to know. Also, if you're listening, hey, it's really friggin hard. That's what to juggle and to do and it's not always worth it. So remember that

Natalia 1:07:29
that's what like, I was talking to a lot of people about cuz some people didn't have the, like, their top houses that they wanted. And I was like, do you think you're gonna rush next year? And they're like, no, like, it was so like, emotional and like, they're like, it's it's too much effort too much work to like, do it all over again, like, I Yeah, so important

Alyssa 1:07:47
to point out that rush isn't for everybody. sororities aren't for everybody. And that's completely okay. If you decide it's too much for you pick yourself over picking a sorority, you know, you can definitely find other communities of women on your campus. And many other ways. Well, my answer, I don't know. I mean, yeah, like, I think I had Congress in the Congress, the girls that I was able to meet. I think in every, like, I met girls in every house that I would be friends with outside, like I said, pockets of going, everywhere. There really were pockets of going everywhere. And I did end up going to a house that I feel validated and my feelings, I think is the word and feel a community. So I just wanted to end on that question. Yeah, I can ask BC to also, you know, your four years looking back as a senior would have to spell would you do it all again?

Natalia 1:08:46
It's a good question.

Nacy 1:08:47
Yeah, i definitely would, I, I wasn't like the most introverted person on the blog freshman year, but I was definitely 1000 times more introverted than I am right now. And, I mean, Greek life gave me this position, it gave me the opportunity to be on this podcast, it increased a lot of my confidence in across the board, not just like public speaking and stuff like that, which are like tangible skills that I'm going to take into the real world. And that's awesome. Anything that you can do to develop yourself professionally, that's really, really important, but also just opened up so many doors like girls, there's going to be like clubs you've never heard of before girls kind of recommending you that networking is incredible. Like there are multiple girls that I've already kind of chatted with about jobs for next year. So all those little things that I think are in the absolute back, which is totally fair, you guys are freshmen, you're not thinking about, you know, four years down the line, but I think as you get to junior senior year, you're gonna realize how many how much you know, having this network really, really matters and like, enjoy Syracuse is the best place ever, but it's gonna go so fast that you're gonna blink and you're gonna be here asking a freshman like that. in the same position, and you're gonna be freaking out, but I hope that regardless of what if you like stay an active member in your chapter all four years that you're able to make those connections and kind of realize that without your sorority, it's like they wouldn't be there. But they might be a little bit harder to get to those places. And I think that's one of the biggest benefits.

Alyssa 1:10:18
Yeah thank you guys for answering that question. And to the listeners, I really hope that this gave you maybe peace of mind, more knowledge, putting your foot forward into the process, maybe you've never, you have no idea what rushing as you're not going to rush but you see it all over yak or something and you want to know like an unedited real version of what it's like, and hopefully to the potential freshmen next year, if any of you guys are listening, hopefully this gave you peace of mind, or maybe just gave you enough prior knowledge to not want to do it completely. It's completely valid either way. I just thank you guys. Thank you, Natalia and Nacy for sitting down with me today. And having such an open and honest conversation. This was everything I could have hoped for. And I really challenge the listeners, especially if you're a chapter here at Syracuse University, to be questioning yourself and what you can be doing better because you can always be doing better and always be making things more comfortable for women of color and for all the women in the group no matter what. But I do think it is important to highlight women of color and their comfortability and feeling safe and heard and seen. So thank you so much. And we'll see you soon. Thank you.

Natalia & Nacy 1:11:43
Thank you for inviting me.

Armando Martinez 1:11:49
thank you for listening to this episode of the lonely campus podcast. I'm Armando Martinez, Director of inclusion and belonging. If you found this podcast helpful, let us know and feel free to share other ways we can make campus more welcoming and inclusive to all.