Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
We need a new definition of success—one that harmonizes meaning and money.
Imagine diving into your workday with renewed energy, leaving behind the exhaustion or dread of a monotonous grind.
Traditional beliefs about success and the root cause of burnout are the same:
Prove yourself.
Work harder.
Take care of the business, and it will take care of you.
We’re recycling the mindset and practices that keep us stuck. Our souls need a jumpstart into The Age of Humanity.
Tune in for a new way of working that honors our nervous system and the bottom line, using knowledge of the brain, the Bible, and business. We’ll discuss timeless truths that amplify growth, ignite change, and reshape the world of work. No corporate speak or business BS. Let’s get to the heart of a rewarding career and profitable growth.
We speak human about business.
What’s in it for You?
Value, Relevance, and Impact (VRI): No, it's not a new tech gadget—it's your ticket to making your work genuinely matter to you and your company.
Human-Centric Insights: We prioritize people over profits without sacrificing the bottom line. Think less "cog in the machine" and more "humans helping humans."
I'm your host, Rebecca Fleetwood Hesson, your thrive guide leading you into the new Age of Humanity. I’ve navigated the highs and lows of business and life, from achieving over $40 million in sales, teaching thousands of people around the world about leadership, trust, execution, and productivity to facing burnout, divorce, raising a couple of great humans (one with ADHD), and navigating the uncertainty of starting a business.
I’m committed to igniting change in the world by jumpstarting business into profitable growth with the timeless truths of our humanity.
Sound crazy? It’s only crazy until it works.
Hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and leave a review to help other listeners discover our show.
Want insight and advice on your real career and business challenges? Connect with me on social media or email me at rebecca@wethrive.live. Your story could spark our next conversation.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:00:03]:
It on the ground I'm not coming down I wanna go higher, higher, higher, higher than that. Welcome back to the Business is Human podcast. I'm your host, Rebecca Fleetwood Hession, and we're here to bring you episodes that blend meaningful work with profitable success. Here to steward what I call the age of humanity. I believe if we transform the way we work, we can transform the way that we live. As always, my friendly request. If you like what you hear, hit subscribe so you don't miss any episode and leave a review to tell the other humans that they might like it too. Always looking to help you and connect with others.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:00:41]:
All right, let's get into it, shall we? I'm excited to bring you our guest today on Business is Human, Kristin Cummings. I just saw our profile on LinkedIn and thought she looks interesting. I'd like to meet her. And that's what we did. And through that conversation discovered that she would make a great guest. And she is a total badass. She helps small and mid sized businesses grow. She's the founder of her own company, a virtual chief operating officer where she partners with leaders and founders to clear the chaos, focus on what matters, and help them to really enjoy running their businesses again.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:01:22]:
She works to provide strategy sessions or just to help find the right operations people to run the business long term. Here's what makes her story so great. One of the many reasons she's not just about business, she's about living life on her terms. So of course you can see why I reached out to her. After a wildly successful career where she grew an event business P L from 8 million to 16 million, she made a bold move to quit, sell her house and hit the road full time with her family. Now she's running her business remotely while traveling the world and proving that you don't have to sacrifice your dreams to make an impact. Today we're going to talk about what it means to pursue the life you really want without hustling for someone else's version of success and how to make those big scary leaps one step at a time. All right, here we go.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:02:22]:
Kristen, welcome to the show.
Kristin Cummings [00:02:24]:
Thank you so much for having me, Rebecca. It's good to be here.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:02:27]:
You know, it's so fun to be in podcasting because I can just reach out to people that I've never met and say, hey, do you want to be on the show? And I think that's what's so fascinating about our stories is I found you on LinkedIn and for some reason was just drawn to you and your work and just literally, randomly reached out and said, hey, you want to get together? I'd love to meet you. And Zoom makes that super easy. And so we had this conversation and realized we have a tremendous amount in common that I'm excited to talk about today. So thank you for being courageous enough to meet a stranger on the Internet.
Kristin Cummings [00:03:08]:
Yeah, you too. Thank you so much for reaching out. I feel like that's the power of podcasting and also LinkedIn, which I'm a huge fan of. And we met, and here we are.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:03:16]:
Ah, so crazy. If you would have told me 10 years ago that this would be my life, I wouldn't have believed you at all. But I'm so glad that it is. So today we're going to talk about pursuing the life that you want, which sounds so New Year, new you. There we are. But what you and I both have in common is the way our life has played out. To pursue the life that we want looks a little bit different than I think some people believe when they see that as a phrase. Just before we even dig into the details, when you think about pursuing the life that you want, describe that to our listeners.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:03:58]:
What does that mean to you?
Kristin Cummings [00:04:01]:
I think for me, I found myself a little bit anti hustle, and I don't know, that's the whole vibe. But, like, I think for so many people, finding a life you want can bring up these thoughts of, like, I need to own a Tesla, or I need to own the company that makes them, or, you know, whatever these, like, huge things are. And for me, it was really taking a step back and saying, like, this is my life. Life is happening right now. What do I want my own life to be? Like, not, what are people telling me? What is LinkedIn telling me? Like, people at work, other moms, if you're a mom. Like, what do I want my life to feel like? How do I back into that? Because it's not always possible in the short term. Sometimes you have to work a job because you need the job. You need money, you need to provide for your family, you need insurance, whatever it is.
Kristin Cummings [00:04:47]:
But I really believe you can always be working towards the life that you want. And so for me, that was, like, looking at things, like, even just daily, like, what gives me energy on a daily basis? Like, when do I like to do my best work? How do I create a life that allows for that? How do I have time with my kiddo when he's little and goes to bed at 7 or 8 and that means that I can't stay at work till 6 anymore. So there's probably long term aspects too. You know, in the future I would love to own Airbnb Rental properties. How do we work towards that? What does that mean today? But it really started for me a few years ago with us selling our home and traveling full time, because that was just something we said we want to do.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:05:26]:
I call it creating the conditions to thrive is just the kind of label I've put on that because to your description, it's going to be different for everyone. And the sooner we acknowledge that we have to go inward to look at what we want our life to be, not looking out there at what other people's lives are, it gets a lot easier to ask ourselves those questions about what, what does a great life look and feel like? Which I think is not at all the way that we are shown or what we've been led to believe is that we have to be inspired by others. And what's this person doing and how are they being successful? And I think about the hacks that people talk about, like how are we going to achieve more and do more and like you anti hustle, like I just got really turned off by that and said, no, I don't think that's for me. And not only did you get turned off by it, like completely changed your life pretty dramatically as a result of 2020. So tell our listeners a little bit of that story. And then I want to dig into kind of the backstory of that and how that came to be. But 2020 happens and then you guys decide what.
Kristin Cummings [00:06:46]:
Yeah, my husband had and I had gone on a date night like six years before and we dreamt up this. At the time we thought, crazy idea, what if we sold our home, what if we lived in Airbnbs around the country and just like took what we could pack in our car and we went on a six month trip. At the time, it was six months. And then right after that we ended up buying a house. We had our first and only baby. I got promoted at work and it did start to feel like, oh, maybe that's a dream for like retirement. But 2020, like you said happened. We all start reevaluating a lot.
Kristin Cummings [00:07:15]:
I ended up working from home for the first time for a period of time. My husband's business shifted. We looked up one day and we said, well, we have a two year old, we have a house we want to sell. And if I just quit my job, which was a whole situation, but if I just Quit this job very casually, like, and go remote somehow. We could do this. And so in 2021, we sold our home. I quit the job I had been at for nine years and I went on my own remotely and we packed up and we ended up traveling North America and Europe for what ended up being two and a half years because we.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:07:47]:
I didn't realize Europe was in there too.
Kristin Cummings [00:07:49]:
Yeah, we did our last eight months in Europe. We just got home in May of 2024.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:07:54]:
Was it everything you expected it to be? Of course there's always going to be challenges. You have a two year old, you have life. Like there's going to be stuff. But when you zoom out and look at the big picture, was it what.
Kristin Cummings [00:08:04]:
You hoped it would be and more like. My husband and I say it's one of our top five life decisions we've ever made. And I don't say that to say everybody should go do it. I say that to say we dreamt about it for so long. So back when we started dreaming about it, we said what would have to be true. Like we'd have to get out of the debt we were in at the time. We would need some savings to make ourselves feel better so that I could leave my job and go on my own, which is what I ended up doing. There were all these things that we slowly started doing over the course of years.
Kristin Cummings [00:08:32]:
And then when we saw the opportunity, we were like, let's go. And honestly, we committed at first to six months. We thought that's what we were going to do. It turned into a year, it turned into two and a half years. And then we did look up and say, hey, our kiddo starts kindergarten soon. Like, we're all ready for some stability. It was hard some days, but it ended up being so great overall that we had a hard time stopping to settle down.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:08:54]:
It's important to note that one date nights. There's a reason that people should go on date nights, just in general to have real conversations, especially as you're raising tiny humans to get out of your day to day go and have like this dream conversation. Love that. But not only did you have it as a dream, you started taking action to prepare for that dream's eventuality. Like in general. I think that sets you apart already. It's one thing to talk about your dreams, it's another thing to collectively sit down and say, okay, what would need to be true? And then taking action on some of those things, yeah, that's such a big.
Kristin Cummings [00:09:33]:
Part of creating your life. Because I also Think that gives you hope in the times where you may not like your whole life situation for whatever reason. And for me it did of like, oh, like even when work is hard or my husband's not sure about his business, it's like we're working towards something so that later we have this freedom whether we do it or not. When the time comes, you know, we'll depend on family and job and all this stuff. But I knew that I wanted to work remote at some point and that that would mean I had to have a little security in the bank, you know. So there's these things that I think just give you that. I'm working towards something in the future that's exciting to me.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:10:08]:
Ooh, that's big. Because then it's not. Whatever's happening right now in your life, your current job, your current scenario is a stepping stone or a piece of a bigger picture that is your dream in the future. Therefore it doesn't give it so much weight in the moment.
Kristin Cummings [00:10:28]:
Circling back to what we were talking about earlier, like there may be a time where you've got to hustle. Like I'm not saying I'm anti hustle all the time and it may be life dependent. I mean for me before I had a kid it was a lot easier to do the travel and the hours and I'm glad I did. At the time I was tired sometimes and I, I don't recommend it long term. It ended up forcing me to face how I deal with stress. But there's a time where you may have to do that either by desire because you want to achieve the next thing or because you just have to because life is what it is. And I think that having that kind of future, like, well, at least I know where I'm going is really helpful.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:11:01]:
Yeah, I, I call it the rhythm of life. You know, sometimes you're in that calm, rested bays and sometimes you got to like working hard, going uphill to get to where you need to be. It's the ups and the downs and that is what makes it fun to me. I like you lived way too much of the go go go travel, figure it out as my day to day lifestyle until I couldn't. Lessons learned for both of us in that regard. I love that perspective. That's not something I had anticipated would come up in this conversation but I really want to underscore it that when you have that long term dream that you're working towards the challenges in the moment don't hold you prisoner or don't identify you they're just something to get through or learn from or whatever to get you where you ultimately want to go.
Kristin Cummings [00:11:53]:
Yeah, for sure. It's like perspective. Exactly.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:11:56]:
Oh, my gosh. We have so much in.
Kristin Cummings [00:11:58]:
Seriously, if people would have heard our.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:12:00]:
First conversation, I walked away from that. I'm like, it is so fascinating to me that people are living almost parallel lives as us somewhere in the, in another part of the world or the country. And then when you get on the phone together, you're like, oh, my gosh. Even the Airbnb, like, real estate investment is, is on my list of things to do as well. And we even look a little bit alike. So it's just really fascinating the way our stories have have synced up. But one of the other ways that our stories are very aligned. When you were thinking about working remotely and starting your own business, you weren't trying to get away from a toxic work environment, really.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:12:39]:
Or a company that just was like, oh, this job is terrible. Nor was I. In fact, we were both working for companies that are well known in terms of brand, and we were both doing really good work, but still had that dream of, I want to do something better or different. Talk a little bit about where you were and what that decision was like.
Kristin Cummings [00:13:02]:
I don't know if this is the case for you, Rebecca, but for me, that's what made it maybe the most trippy to want to leave is like, I worked for that role for a long time. And like I said I think at the time, if you were to tell me, write your dream title on paper, I would have written that dream title down and been like, I'm already doing it. And I worked with a lot of my closest friends. There was a lot of good and there were a lot of personal reasons that I knew it was time to go. I also really wanted the flexibility. And they were a very in person job. And so I think at first, at least for me, I was a little resistant. When it even started coming up in my mind, like, I think it's time to go.
Kristin Cummings [00:13:39]:
This feels crazy. Usually in the past, I've had situations where it was time to go because it is toxic. Where it's like, this is going nowhere, or there's somebody in leadership that you don't trust or whatever the case is, that feels very obvious and while hard in its own right, frankly, a little bit easier than saying, this has been a good situation and now it's time for it to be over. And I knew there were going to be a lot of people I missed there. And There have been, but it's funny how I. I kind of let myself just lean into that process. Just like, okay, what if it is time to go? What would be next? And when this dream of like living on the road really started resurfacing for us, it's like, well, maybe this is part of it and maybe we just need to lean in and follow this. And once I finally made that decision, I never looked back.
Kristin Cummings [00:14:21]:
It was like, yes, this is right. You know, a number of things did fall into place that made me feel really lucky that that's how I felt when I left. But I just think you need to lean into that. Even if it feels a little bit crazy.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:14:34]:
Especially if it feels a little bit crazy because there's something I call it God, that is nudging you, saying, I've got better for you. And when you're in a dream type job and dream type company and doing great work with clients, my identity was really connected to that work because we both did really meaningful work for humans and helped them in a lot of ways. I so associated with that company brand that when I started getting the nudges of I think it's time to go, it caused me to reflect on who I really am and not that my identity was so tied to that company brand. Even after the last day when I gave my notice, which I gave a six month notice because I was still a little like, I think I might be crazy, but I'm gonna do it. That last day you close the laptop 6pm after a 20 year career and just that was stress inducing because, you know, prom pictures and legal documents end up on your work computer. And you're like, I'm not gonna have access to this machine anymore where a lot of my life lived. And that night I was sitting at my counter kind of like, what have I just done? And I thought to myself, I don't even know how to introduce myself to somebody that doesn't know me without using that company name and title as a part of my identity. And that was a weird feeling.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:16:05]:
Did you experience anything like that?
Kristin Cummings [00:16:08]:
I do think there's so much of that identity stuff and frankly, for most of us, if you leave that long term situation for something new, you do kind of start over. And I felt very blessed that I had some clients, like some friends introduced me to some early clients that happened really quickly for me, that gave me some stability and I was starting over with those people. I had not started over in a long time. So much when I first went out on my own and Started working with clients. So much of what I felt like I had to offer, I felt like I had to tell the story of that nine years of, like, look what I accomplished here. This is where I have something to tell you that I accomplished because I didn't have it out on my own. I do feel like I'm three and a half years out now and I'm starting to be able to have more of those reps and those stories to say, hey, I can work with you as a client because I worked with these other clients and this is the work I've done on my own two feet. That, yes, is still based on lessons I learned there.
Kristin Cummings [00:17:03]:
But some of that just takes time. And it is a weird, very weird process. A little disorienting, I think I leaned.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:17:10]:
Into and it actually became a big part of the work I do today. I leaned into the fact that the results that I got in that job were extraordinary. Like yours. You helped double top line revenue from 8 million to $16 million. Like, that's significant. I sold $36 million for this company. That's a big deal. But I leaned into the fact that it was my unique gifts and talents that led to that result.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:17:40]:
And I was bringing those unique gift and talents with me into this new thing I was creating. I love to create, like, metaphors and symbols that are visual for me to. To comfort myself. Sometimes in those stressful moments. I pictured myself, like, with wrapped gifts that were mine in the work that I knew how to do that I was then going to go give to someone else. I had given them to this previous company in a way that netted these great results. And I was taking those gifts with me, and then I was going to go give them to someone else in the way that I was doing client work together. And that helped me with my confidence not to feel because you are starting over, you're starting a new thing.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:18:24]:
It helped me not to feel so, like, ground zero in that starting over. It's like, I have the capability do great work, and I've proven that here and now. I just need to go do it somewhere else.
Kristin Cummings [00:18:36]:
I feel like somebody told me something very similar when I left of like, you need to have some trust in yourself that while you're transferring this to somewhere else, the first time you face a problem with your new role, your new client, like, you are going to know what to do a lot of the time. You're going to be able to draw an experience. You're going to be able to say, this isn't exactly the same, but it's similar. And like, don't discount that. And while I do think you have to get the reps to, to kind of boost your confidence, that really helped me when I left. Like, yeah, I have been through a lot of stuff and when it comes up, either I'll know what to do or I won't and I'll ask for help. We'll figure it out, you know.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:19:12]:
Yep.
Kristin Cummings [00:19:12]:
And so until you get the reps, I think you do have to lean on that.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:19:16]:
And isn't it funny when you would be in new situations with new client, new company name, those memories of that other work would just come into my consciousness when I needed them. We've been taught from a school perspective you gotta study for the test. And so like you've got this new company which is like this new class and you're supposed to study for that test when in fact you just brought all of that experience from what you'd learned in that other company. And then I could tell stories of situations that had happened that were relatable to this new company. I didn't start over, I brought all of that experience with me. And the more I had that experience where I'd just be talking to a client and you are kind of nervous, you're like, I started the new thing, I'd like to make some money. Like soon you'd be talking with a client and all of a sudden I just find myself telling this story of something that was relatable from 10 years ago. And I'd hang up from those calls and I'd be like, okay, it's gonna be all right.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:20:15]:
Like I'm all right.
Kristin Cummings [00:20:16]:
Yeah, I have something to offer, I can help. And small businesses, small to mid size, like I've just found there's like a big switch too when you leave a big company of how fast you can implement change in smaller companies, which to me has been really refreshing and fun. It's like you do lose some of the resources you may have had, but I think you make up for it with like a nimble mentality or like just a faster moving, like, oh, we could try some of these things. Most of the time if they fail, it's not going to be the end of the world. We're going to keep iterating and we're going to figure it out. And that's been really fun for me.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:20:48]:
Amen. That was the other thing that we connected on is we both went into this like small and mid sized company market which I just kind of found me I didn't have that great intention, but once I started working with them, actually what I felt like was all of a sudden somebody had just opened this door or this curtain and all of these companies, these small mid sized companies and owners and wonderful people were there and I was like, where has this been my whole life and career? Because I think we were both working with Fortune 500 companies and big organizations and lots of red tape and lots of bureaucracy sometimes to get things done. And all of a sudden it was.
Kristin Cummings [00:21:30]:
Like, oh, it's this, oh, this has been going on. This LinkedIn world existed and I was just over here doing this other thing. And it's really fun. I've enjoyed getting to and learn like new industries and so many of those business principles that you learn transfer no matter where you're working, which is another probably just case in point that you need to have some trust in yourself that you've learned like the principle behind the thing. But you just get to see it play out in so many different ways, which has been really fun too.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:22:00]:
Yeah, you started your own company and you were doing this fractional coo, which is also a new concept really, but the way that you are helping those small to mid sized businesses with the things that they need most because of that experience that you've had in a bigger company. That was the thing that I got most excited about when I saw how hungry these business owners and leaders were for the kind of support that I kind of took for granted in big companies. And to be able to scale it in a way that really made a difference for them is really rewarding like gratitude and movement on something that you implemented fairly quickly. Tell us a little bit about how your company works to do that because I really think that that's going to be a part of the future in the way that people do work. Tell our listeners a little bit about how it works.
Kristin Cummings [00:22:57]:
Yeah, I hope so too. I think for small to mid sized companies especially, I feel like fractional is the future or there's at least a big part of it. So I work as a fractional. I call myself a virtual CEO for several small to midsize clients at a time. Filling that COO seat when they can't, they're not ready for a full time, they can't afford a full time yet, but they want the expertise. That's what I think you get with fractional is you get that expertise before you can pay for the role full time. I love that I get perspective into a lot of different kinds of businesses. So it Works out as a win win.
Kristin Cummings [00:23:28]:
But I also think when you have a small to mid sized company, oftentimes what you need early on are people who can look across the company and fill several seats before you can afford to fill those seats full time. So fractional, especially operations folks, where we can kind of look across the business and be like, hey, I'll jump in, I can get this project off the ground, we can get it turned around. Once it gets traction, maybe we go find an expert or maybe we make the hire once we prove it's roi. But just having that person who can get those things rolling can make a big difference in companies. And to your point, we get to start things a lot faster. When you're part of a thousand person team, there is by nature, and I think by necessity a need to be a little careful with how you roll things out, how fast they do, what do they impact, what are the other things that break when we do this with small companies, it's often like, oh great, you found a better solution for bookkeeping. Do it like, can you do it next month? Let's do it. And it's really fun.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:24:23]:
And I like what you said about you're looking at the big picture of things like let's work on this project right now, get that going. But I'm also looking across the company and making recommendations and advising on why don't you fill this role full time next? So you're not looking to come in and necessarily stay in that role long term. You're looking at how you can help them grow and fulfill roles as they need in the future. Is that the way, Let me understand.
Kristin Cummings [00:24:52]:
Yeah, I think for a lot of fractional folks, I think it really does depend. Several of my clients have been long term clients and I filled that role. We've had other people come in and we've hired four specific pieces of maybe what I used to own because I wasn't ready to go full time or I didn't want to. I've been open and going full time for a client if it was the right fit. But I just really love that, hey, let me fill this need for you. And then if you outgrow me or I outgrow you, then it's fine. I've got other clients. I think less of that pressure on it than when you make that full time hire on both parties.
Kristin Cummings [00:25:24]:
So there are times where I've done project based work. I actually have had a couple of clients where I have replaced myself, said, hey, I'm recognizing that you need somebody Full time in this operations area. Let me get them trained for you. You know, I'm not ready to do it for whatever reason, or you don't need me for whatever the reason is. And so I found and hired and trained until they were, like, good to go, and then I was able to step out. The business owner just had that one salary, and it ended up being a win win.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:25:52]:
As somebody that came from a recruiting background, many, many, many, many years ago, you found, hired and trained the person. Just the value in that alone for a business owner or leader is huge because you'd already dug in and knew the work and knew the people and knew the right person for the job. My gosh. Worth 1%.
Kristin Cummings [00:26:17]:
Yeah. Totally replacing myself. I'm like, well, we'll keep whatever our financial agreement is, I'll keep doing it, but I'll spend the time replacing myself. And hopefully that's a win win for all of us.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:26:28]:
I'm looking at your situation in your life, and you have proven to yourself and others, whether that matters or not, that when you get this nudge to make a change, you have the ability to do that and do it successfully. Do you and your husband still go on those date nights and dream about what's next in terms of big picture long term? Have you landed? I know you said you wanted to do some real estate, Airbnb properties, but are you still moving that dream thing out into the future and making it bigger or different, or how's that working?
Kristin Cummings [00:27:05]:
I would say there's two ways it's impacted us. First of all, our time on the road. I think it changed us forever. We are very committed as a family to travel. We love it, love how it's changed us. We've really found ourselves moving from, like, gifts and buying things to more experiences, which I know a lot of people value. But for us specifically, experiences being travel. One of our goals for right now is to travel in the summers when our kid is out of school.
Kristin Cummings [00:27:29]:
We're still very much set up as a family to work remotely. So we plan this summer to head up to Nova Scotia and spend our summer there in cooler weather and rent out our home back here in Charleston. So that's one of the ways I feel like we're just very committed. We spent almost three weeks over Christmas traveling. There's a factor there as our kiddo gets older. We don't want him to feel disrupted. So I think that we'll kind of play that by ear. But that's one of our big goals for the future and especially after he's out of the house, is to be people who are able to go do those long stints of travel.
Kristin Cummings [00:28:00]:
One of the things we really loved about it is how we got to know areas. It wasn't just like, vacation, where you do the touristy things we really love, like the culture experience we got to have. We'd love to branch out even further as our work lives led us. And so I think knowing that's a big value of our families now. Even opportunities that I've had that my husband have had at work, where we may have turned them down or we may have said, hey, this is not the right fit for right now, it doesn't fit into now how we imagine our family's future. Not to say that might change, we might find ourselves, I don't know, sick of travel. I don't see that happening, but. Or just ready to stay planted for a period of time, or we have some family situation that calls for it, and then those opportunities are different.
Kristin Cummings [00:28:41]:
But for right now, that really impacts not only the future, but, like, even our daily life.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:28:45]:
For us, this is big because traditionally we look back on society and this is actually the root cause of burnout. Stats, too, is prove yourself, work harder, take care of the business, and it will take care of you. You have flipped the script and said, I'm gonna pursue the life I want. I'm going to, in my words, create the conditions to thrive. And that means I'm deciding what business opportunities we, as a family, say yes and no to that, then allow us to live that life that we want. So how often do you, you know stories of people that uprooted their entire life because there was a promotion opportunity and they had to move to another city. It wasn't necessarily where they wanted to live, but who turns down a promotion and that much money we're going to pack up and we're going to go versus saying, what's the life that we want to live? And how can we evaluate the business opportunities that we get based on the dreams that we have as a couple and as a family?
Kristin Cummings [00:29:54]:
So this is something I'm really passionate about too, because there's a tension here, right? Like, I am financially motivated, I am ambitious. I do want to make more money. I do want to be smart about retirement. I don't want to just of those. We are not true nomads in that. We're like, screw retirement. We're going to spend all our money now and live on couches somewhere. Like, we are still intentional people.
Kristin Cummings [00:30:13]:
But it has led to some big life decisions for us. One of them being we went from probably 3,000 square feet before we sold our home and moved to, like 1400. We have a little townhouse now that we bought very intentionally. We spent more money on than our last house because of the market and the part of town we wanted to be in. But we wanted no outside maintenance. So when we leave for the summer, we don't have to worry about it. We wanted something that was within our budget so that we had the money to stretch for travel. And so those are those, like, very practical give and take of, like, we're not just heirs of big fortunes living this luxury travel life.
Kristin Cummings [00:30:50]:
Like, we are orienting our life around wanting to make that happen. And that's not for everybody. If you want the bigger house and you want to spend all your money on the yard, and that's fine. You are probably giving up the chance to spend two months in the summer in Europe, which is what we plan to do. But that's. That's totally fine. It's about being more honest with, do I want that? Do I want the bigger square foot house? Was I just told I wanted that. And if after you reflect and say, no, that's what I want, then awesome, go do it and at least do it.
Kristin Cummings [00:31:20]:
Knowing I've traded off other opportunities for something that I do want. Like, sometimes I do. I'm like, oh, I wish we had a big yard. We've got a kiddo, and our yard is pretty small, but I can walk into a park and I can walk them to our neighborhood pool. And for right now, our setup is going to allow us to spend two months in Nova Scotia this summer. It's where we're at. And I just think that knowing that helps me remember when I do have those moments where I'm like, oh, man, you know, I wish we had a huge yard where we could do all this awesome stuff and we'd own it small. But I'll be in Nova Scotia all summer where it's like 70 and breezy.
Kristin Cummings [00:31:55]:
I think doing that work to know that matters.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:31:58]:
And so the difference between proving yourself is knowing yourself. So you and your husband have sat down and said, this is what we know to be true about us. We want to live this life. And now we're going to take that same diligence and intentional planning that we have learned as business people and apply that to our life, to have the life that we want, not the life that is a circumstance that we've landed in. And I have been telling business Leaders for a while now that in the post 2020 society, what some are calling this great re evaluation of life, people, you know, in that forced trauma, they went inward instead of looking out at what was happening, Right? And they said, is this really the life I want? Is this all there is? And that is a global phenomenon that happened that just is. If leaders are trying to continue to run their business based on a society that desires to prove themselves and work harder and believe that if they take care of the business, it will take care of them, many of us, that's not where we're at anymore. And so you have to be thinking about society is looking at, what do I want for my life? And how can I go find the career that's going to allow me to create those conditions to thrive? And that doesn't mean we don't want to work hard. But this idea of proving ourselves and killing ourselves for a company, a lot of really great performers have said, yeah, no.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:33:31]:
Either they've started their own business or they're being very picky about who they choose to work for so that they don't get back in that trap of burnout.
Kristin Cummings [00:33:40]:
I think that that is just that intentionality we started this whole conversation with, like, what do I want for my life? Maybe it's in this season. What do I want for my life in this season? My kiddo's at home. You know, I'll be however old when he leaves, and if I want to work late by then, then great. But right now I don't. Or right now I do. Right now, if you're 28, you don't have responsibilities and you are getting ahead in your career, then awesome. I would say take care of your stress and go learn as much as you possibly can before something shifts that makes you not want to or not able to do it. And so I think that intentionality is what really matters.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:34:15]:
And knowing in your heart what is your soul saying that you need and want and listening to that and not trying to compare yourself to others, that there's this scripted plan of success that I think many of us growing up were thought that that was the thing, and it's not true. You got to listen to that inner voice that says, hey, what if you. And then whatever comes after that is your plan, not what your neighbor's doing or your Instagram feed is doing.
Kristin Cummings [00:34:45]:
Yeah, totally. Totally. I love.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:34:47]:
Which also means that, as you just said, you can change it. And then I call them the chapters of our story. Right? So your child is going to get older and have different needs. And then you're going to look and say okay, what does this mean for our family? And then when he goes off and does his life, then you can look at okay, what does this mean for, for us as a family and seeing our lives in those chapters as they play out versus I gotta have it all figured out. That's a lot.
Kristin Cummings [00:35:15]:
Yeah, it takes the pressure off too. Like okay, what works for this year, this next couple of years, this house works for us for the next probably couple of years. And great. We had to make a decision and so we did. It takes that pressure off the really big things like that.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:35:31]:
I just had this thought, I've never thought about it this way before but if you treated your life like you treat business like you usually have the year plan, sometimes you have a three to five year plan if you have some specific growth and acquisition and different things that you're working on. But if we saw our life in that shorter time span of what does success look like in the next 12 months or in the next three years versus I gotta figure my life out. Like that is just such a horrendous expectation. That just isn't true. Yeah, I've lived 15 lives at this point.
Kristin Cummings [00:36:11]:
Yeah, I still try to figure out what I'm trying to be when I grow up and I'm like very grown up. There's no other grown up taking care of my life. And yet that pressure does feel kind of crippling.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:36:22]:
I have 20 year old kids, 23 and 26 and that message has been really hard on their confidence. The societal message, it didn't come from inside this home but the societal message that you're supposed to have things figured out. Like even Christmas this year they went to their dad's family which is wonderful people I typically go to. Like we have really good co parenting, good relationships. But some of their cousins have chosen very corporate lies. One works for Apple and that's great. That's was the path that they wanted. And I have a songwriter and a musician and an artist who's who's doing amazing things as a nail tech currently and they love their life until they go and feel this comparison thing.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:37:09]:
And both of them messaged me separately not knowing they were both messaging me about this like feeling that comparison and I'm like look, we don't do that. We live the story that God created for us and we don't compare ourselves to other people. Like don't fall into that trap. It's not going to make you feel great about anything. But if you don't have somebody in your life that is saying that to you, it's easy to get caught in the well, maybe I should have done it differently. And I just think we owe it to these beautiful young humans that we're raising to let them figure out what their soul says.
Kristin Cummings [00:37:45]:
And I think you teaching them that skill, that's still a skill I have to use. I love our little house and what it allows us for the summer like I just described. But I still have been to homes recently where I'm like, dang, did we make the right choice? Like we could have spent our money, moved outside of the town a little bit, gotten a big yard, gotten a bigger house than our last one, which is the goal. Right. You gotta upgrade and you still have to like recenter yourself on that a lot. And I think teaching that skill, like that's never going to go away. You have to be able to have the, the resources to just remind yourself or reground and just say no, we made these choices for a reason.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:38:23]:
Yeah, no, it's very true. I still do that too. I sold a big property and downsized and didn't entertain for a long time, which has always been a big gathering, has always been a big thing for me. And I finally came to terms with that this past year. That I didn't know it, it was all subconscious, but subconsciously I wasn't inviting people to this home because it wasn't as big and fancy as, as my last one. And once I unlocked that, I was like, oh my gosh. And so now I'm hosting things every week. I got a Bible study that comes every other Monday.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:38:56]:
I've got a work group that comes once a month. And once I unlocked that for myself, it gave me a lot of freedom.
Kristin Cummings [00:39:04]:
Yeah, I love that. I love that. That's so good.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:39:08]:
So as we wrap up today, I want people listening to this to be encouraged. I want them to be excited to listen to their own soul about. Are there any thoughts or things that they have been considering that they haven't given enough attention to or something? I don't even know that. But what advice would you give? What would you tell those people that are like, oh, well, maybe I haven't allowed my soul to speak so much into my own life. What would you say to them?
Kristin Cummings [00:39:40]:
Yeah, I love that. To me, the biggest encouragement that helped me is to say life is happening now and I do deserve to pause and just give these thoughts room. Like not every thought we have. Like, yeah, there are some days I'm Like, I'm going to quit my job and be a yoga instructor. Like, no, I'm probably not. But some of those ones that just, like, really stick in you, that, like, like you said, they're like, in your soul, or they just keep coming up. Give them a little bit of space and just see what happens. Explore it.
Kristin Cummings [00:40:07]:
Maybe put yourself in a what if. Maybe do some exercises where you imagine if you made that life change, how you would feel. Maybe look at your budget and see what would happen. Like, I think take some of those practical steps can help. Either say, yes, I'm going to pursue this, or clear it out so that it's just kind of like, oh, no, that's. That's not actually a thing. Take the next step to give it a little space.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:40:29]:
And then I love your next step, which is okay, if that's true, what else needs to be true then to take the action. Planning, which we all know how to do. That's business 101. We all know how to build a strategic plan for something.
Kristin Cummings [00:40:41]:
Yeah, totally.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:40:42]:
First, give that soul some. Some time to speak and see what happens.
Kristin Cummings [00:40:46]:
It's an easy next step. It could look so many ways, but just give it some space.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:40:50]:
I'm so glad we've met, and I just feel like our paths will continue to cross and we'll find opportunities to support one another. And I think that also is the beautiful thing of this remote lifestyle that we now. It just is. It's no longer like, should it be? It just is. So let's just totally lean into it as a beautiful part of it. And with my dog barking in the background, Olive is saying that it's probably time to wrap this episode up.
Kristin Cummings [00:41:16]:
Yeah. Well, thank you so much. This has been so fun. Like you said earlier, it's so nice to meet other people you had no connection to otherwise and find out you have so much overlap. So I've really enjoyed it and look forward to just staying in touch and supporting your business however I can.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:41:31]:
And we're going to put the link to your LinkedIn in the show notes. And so I'd love for people to follow you and if there's an opportunity that you could help them with some fractional COO work or just want to talk about what that might look like for them or whatever that they can connect you in that way. Is that the best way to get in touch with you is through LinkedIn?
Kristin Cummings [00:41:51]:
Yes, yes, absolutely. I have a website, but Honestly, I'm on LinkedIn more than anything else, so.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:41:56]:
Awesome. Well, great. Well, wishing you. All the best in 2025. You too.
Kristin Cummings [00:42:01]:
Thank you so much.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:42:08]:
Thanks for being here. You can follow us on Instagram Business is Human or TikTok Rebecca Fleetwood Hession. It's a great way to share some of the clips with your colleagues and friends. All right. Make it a great day. Love you. Mean it.