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The Pilot Project Podcast is an aviation podcast that aims to help new pilots learn what it takes to succeed in the world of flight, to help people in the flight training system learn what they may want to fly, and to give Canadians and the world a peek into life on the flight deck in the RCAF. We want to help pilots succeed and thrive! We interview real RCAF pilots for their exciting stories as well as the lessons they've learned along the way. We'll learn their tips to develop resilience and the tools it takes to make it in flight training.
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Bryan:Alright. We're ready for departure here at the pilot project podcast, the best source for stories and advice from RCAF and Mission Aviation Pilots brought to you by Sky's Magazine. I'm your host, Brian Morrison. And with me today for the first of our two part Christmas special on Operation Christmas Drop is captain Anthony Elmont Malouin, a c one thirty j Hercules pilot from four three six Transport Squadron in Trenton, Ontario. Tony, welcome to the show, and thank you for taking the time to chat with us before you once again leave this week for Operation Christmas Drop.
Tony:Happy to be here.
Bryan:So today, will be talking about Tony's pathway to joining the RCAF, his training journey, and some challenges he faced, as well as his first experience with Operation Christmas Drop in 2024. But as always, before we jump into that, let's go through Tony's bio. Anthony always wanted to serve in the Canadian Armed Forces. His desire to become a pilot began in 2009 when he watched the Snowbirds perform at an air show in his hometown. And from that moment, he knew he wanted to fly for the RCAF.
Bryan:Motivation grew even stronger in 2010 when he saw the CAF's response to Haiti's earthquake. After graduating from Universite Laval in 2017, Anthony had the option to pursue a commercial pilot license with the Centre Quebecois de Formation Aeronautique or CQFA in Chicoutimi or to join the CAF. He chose the CAF and started basic training that summer. Following basic, Anthony was posted to Halifax at the Joint Rescue Coordination Center where he worked as an assistant air coordinator supporting search and rescue operations within the Halifax Search And Rescue region. In the 2018, he went to Portage La Prairie, Manitoba to complete phase one then returned to Halifax.
Bryan:In March 2019, Anthony was posted to Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan for phase two training on the CT-one 156 Harvard two. A combination of winter weather, aircraft serviceability issues, COVID delays and air sickness extended his phase two to two years. One month after completing phase two, he began phase three and earned his wings in the 2021. He was then posted to four thirty six Transport Squadron in Trenton, Ontario where he completed his operational training unit in the 2022 and deployed a few weeks later. Unfortunately, Anthony had to be medevaced toward the end of that deployment and was grounded for most of 2023.
Bryan:Once cleared to fly again, he had a busy 2024 participating in six tactical exercises, two as a planner and four as a flyer. Two weeks after Operation Christmas Drop two thousand twenty four, he deployed again on Op Reassurance. After returning and taking post appointment leave, he completed his aircraft commander upgrade and has been flying the CC one thirty j as an AC for the past few weeks. Anthony took part in Operation Christmas Drop in December 2024 and will participate again this year. Let's talk about your early inspiration and motivations for joining the military.
Bryan:You've said you always wanted to serve in the Canadian Armed Forces. Where did that desire first come from?
Tony:Yeah. So I'd say growing up, the forces were always depicted as a peacekeeping forces, at least from my perspective. I always had a desire to help people and I thought the forces would be a good way to do so. I also always wanted a job that makes me see the world and travel. So I always knew the Forces would be a good fit for me.
Bryan:And so far has has that lived up to your expectations?
Tony:Absolutely. Yeah.
Bryan:Yeah. The Snowbirds two thousand nine air show in your hometown was the moment you knew you wanted to be a pilot. What do you remember feeling that day?
Tony:So it was for the four hundred and seventy fifth anniversary of my hometown. Oh, wow. And yeah, it was the first time seeing a plane from this close, to be honest. I've never been on a plane before and Gatsby is a very remote area and we don't get a lot of traffic either. So it was amazing to see all nine snowbirds flying so close together, doing crazy aerobatics.
Tony:It was my first real exposure to aviation and it was a great one. And so what happened at the time, I was working at the only hotel in Gaspe and obviously that's where the snowbirds were, were staying and I had a chance to, have a pretty good conversation with one of the pilots and, explained to me a little bit like what's the path to become a pilot and what I can do with the the forces. So yeah, I would say that's that's where it started.
Bryan:Do you happen to remember who that pilot was?
Tony:I don't remember. All I remember is I I believe he was a major, He was bald. That's that's all I remember. Okay. That was sixteen years ago.
Tony:Yeah.
Bryan:So if there's a bald major out there who was a former snowbird, this is a kind of a cool story because it it's pretty awesome because that's exactly what the Snowbirds exist to do. Right? To inspire young people to join the air force and hopefully, you know, we get some pilots out of that too. So it's pretty cool that basically the exact function of the Snowbirds was was carried out that day.
Tony:Yeah. It's a great recruiting tool.
Bryan:Yeah. In 2010, Haiti's earthquake response solidified your desire to serve. How did seeing the calf in action shape your pathway?
Tony:So I remember seeing the I was watching TVA, one of the French TV channel and seeing the Griffins flying around and the engineers with water filtration station being built up. And there was some Van Doos guy talking on the TV and I just remember being mesmerized by the sheer effort there by the CAF to trying to help Haiti. And I was just, I was 16 at the time and I was like, man, I wish, I just wish I was there and I wanted to be a part of it one day to help people and I don't wish anything wrong happened to any countries of course, but it does happen and I'd love to be there and help one day if Canada ever gets involved.
Bryan:Yeah. You know, it's funny. I remember those events as well very clearly. At the time, I was in four hundred squadron in Borden, Ontario, which at the time was a reserve helicopter attack hill squadron. And I I remember watching that having those exact same kind of feelings Cause I I was a second lieutenant.
Bryan:Right? So I wasn't ready to deploy anywhere or anything. But I was just thinking, man, I would love to be there and help with this because you just got that feeling like these people need help. Right? And we're the people to provide that.
Tony:Oh, absolutely.
Bryan:When you look back now, was there anyone in your family or community who really pushed or encouraged the idea of service?
Tony:So my whole family was always super supportive of my desire to join. My mother, especially, she came to my swearing in ceremony in Quebec City, which is like an eight hour drive from Gaspe just to see me swearing, like it was a thirty minutes event, but she still did the whole drive. My whole family also came to my graduation from basic training. So no one really pushed me but they were super supportive about it.
Bryan:Yeah, which is huge, right? Like it's a tough job and having the family support behind you makes it a little bit easier.
Tony:Oh, absolutely. And it's yeah. You're you're totally right.
Bryan:Yeah. So I'd like to talk about why you chose the CAF over a civilian pathway for your career. After Universite Laval, you had a big choice to make, CQFA for a CPL or the CAF. Why did the military route win?
Tony:So the CQFA gave me an offer first, and I was supposed to start in January 2018. But it was a pretty easy decision for me to go with the military route since I always wanted to be in the CAF. So yeah, I remember getting my degree in April 2017 and in June 2017, the CAF called, the recruiting sergeant left a message and I immediately called back and was like, yep, I'm in. I know it's a lot of young kids dream and get back to go to CQFA and I was very lucky to be selected, but I just made another person happy by giving them my my spot.
Bryan:Can you actually quickly tell us what is CQFA?
Tony:So CQFA, it's a so yeah. It's a like a college basically in Quebec in Chikutimi where you, get to get your, and at the same time getting, your CPL.
Bryan:And for the listeners, a CPL is your commercial pilot license.
Tony:And everything is subsidized by the government. So you basically just pay what, the Segep tuition is. So when I went to Segep, it was not even a $100 a semester and all you gotta do is pay your books and your tuition and then you get a full CPL, which is a great deal for, anybody that wants to become a pilot.
Bryan:Yeah. That's huge. So you actually had, like, two really good options ahead of you there.
Tony:I had two really good option and the money piece as well was a was a big one because going with the CAF, I knew I would be paid throughout my whole training compared to going the civilian route. And I'm really glad I went the military route because I would have graduate with a CPL in, I believe, June 2020 and we all know what happened with the aviation world in 2020 and this would not have been a great time. So Yeah. A lot of job security with the forces, of course.
Bryan:For sure. 2020 was a year where I think a lot of us were very grateful to be in a fortunate position of having job security when so much of the world, especially the aviation community, but so many different communities, were struggling. That was a really fortunate time to be in the military.
Tony:Yeah. Absolutely.
Bryan:What do you remember from starting basic training in 2017? Was there anything that surprised you?
Tony:So I felt like I was pretty ready for it. I had friends who've done basic training before me who gave me some great tips. We also had this show back home called Les Recruits, The Recruits and they basically just follow platoon through basic training. I watched a couple of episodes but I stopped after three because I didn't want to get too many spoilers before I started basic training. But I remember on the show, one instructor said that the best candidate is the one that does everything right and try not to get too much attention on themselves and that's why I did, I try to be the gray man for as long as I could.
Tony:Yeah, I was on week 11 and still some of the instructors didn't know my name, but I was very close to everybody on my platoon but kept a low profile with the instructors. I would say what surprised me the most was how much you can function with so little sleep and how much calories you can eat in so little time when you're last in line to go get your food.
Bryan:Yeah, for sure. Because you are taking in, like I remember at that time, was talking about this with my wife the other day, that was the lightest I've ever weighed in my adult life, but probably the most I was ever eating. Like you're just moving so much of the day.
Tony:Oh yeah, every day. And yeah, do remember loving my Sunday's dinner after the induct period because I had all the time in the world to have like a great dinner, sit down, have a tea, chat with everybody on the platoon. It was, yeah, it was good.
Bryan:Yeah. Yeah. And I was actually going to ask you for kind of a couple tips. You said your friends gave you some tips, but I think you gave the best advice so far, which is, you know, do your best and make an effort to be that gray person. The the one that for listeners who don't know the gray man or the gray person is basically that person who blends into the background.
Bryan:Like, you don't stand out. You're just gray blending in. And basically, by doing that, you avoid a lot of a lot of trouble being heaped on your head.
Tony:Oh, totally. You don't wanna be you don't wanna be swiping your card and you don't wanna be a target. Yeah. Yeah. Swipe swiping your cards whenever you do something outrageous or whatever, you're gonna swipe your card and then after a couple of swipes, there's gonna be some disciplinary measures.
Tony:So try and avoid that.
Bryan:Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Did you feel that at that age you were stepping into your lifelong plan or was there still uncertainty at that time?
Tony:I felt like I was ready for my career in the CAF as a pilot. I've been working for towards it for for so long. Like, I applied a couple times, I got a degree specifically to join, the CAF. I remember the, one time, yeah, I applied, I believe it would have been in 2015, I went to Trenton, passed the Air Crew Selection course, then I went to Toronto, passed the medical and then I was calling the recruiting center every two weeks to know did I get the job? Any news, did I get the job?
Tony:And then at the end of the summer, started to give up a little bit and the recruiter was like, well, maybe if you get a degree, you'll probably have a better chance. So the year before I, like 2016, I started the process so that by the time I got my degree, I could just get in right away and it it all worked out.
Bryan:That's awesome. It's fortunate that they gave you that solid advice for kind of how to improve your profile and that that all worked out for you because so many people end up waiting years and years for that to come together.
Tony:Absolutely. Yeah. I was very fortunate.
Bryan:Yeah. So let's talk about your first posting, which was Joint Rescue Coordination Center or JRCC in Halifax as an assistant air controller. What exactly does that job involve?
Tony:Yeah. So you're basically the admin assistant to the air coordinator. So you keep a track log of all the phone calls that happen. You keep track of the plane serviceability with four thirteen and one hundred three squadron in Greenwood and Gander. Sometimes you call triple four squadron in Happy Valley Goose Bay or four thirty nine in Baggettville.
Tony:Those are helicopter squadrons, that we have on the East Coast. You also call different agencies, when he asks you to, like the, sometimes you'll get the, ELT that will be triggered.
Bryan:And for the listeners, an ELT is an emergency locator transmitter.
Tony:And when the search and rescue satellite goes through it because of the Doppler effect, it might ping the ELT on two different spots. Either let's say, I don't know, St. John's, Newfoundland and Madrid, Spain. So you just call this Spain MCC and be like
Bryan:Another acronym for the listeners, MCC is Mission Coordination Center.
Tony:Hey, we got this hit on the, with the SARSAT. We see the plane is registered in Spain. So are you guys tracking that? Yeah, we're tracking it. We called the owner already.
Tony:Like it's all good. Wow. And sometimes it's like, sometimes it's just an actual crash that happened in Canada and you need to pull up the crew and then you get to see a lot of the involvement on the ground of the search and rescue world and it's a pretty good job and it's a good exposure as a 2LT of the air force basically.
Bryan:Yeah. That's actually crazy. I had no idea that that Doppler effect could happen and that the the beacon could be that far off that you would need to be checking in with countries in Europe to double check where the the crash happened. That's really interesting.
Tony:Yeah. And then you'd have like other satellites orbiting and then catching it. And then when you have like locations that are matching, you know exactly where it is. But like on the first pass, it takes a couple of minutes for like another satellite to pick it up. But you want to be quick on how you, you want to be quick in spoiling things up as soon as you can basically.
Bryan:For sure. You mentioned that helping coordinate search and rescue from the ground gives you a unique perspective as a second lieutenant. What did you learn there that still shapes you today as a pilot?
Tony:So I learned that there's a lot of players involved in pretty much everything that we do in the CAF and so many things can affect the mission being, plane serviceability, weather, when the agencies will call the RCAF for help, Is the RCMP will sometimes start to do ground search but after a couple of hours or days, they're going to be like, oh, well we need to call the search and rescue from the CAF and the more they wait, harder it makes the job for the search and rescue team to do their job. Little things sometimes like fuel contamination can affect like a whole base like Greenwood and now let's say you can't have Greenwood is the only base that we have for search and rescue on the East Coast, now you need to rely on Trenton to be able to provide fixed wing search and rescue. So you get to see like all of the involvement around that, but also like one of the big thing would be to give me a good perspective, understand that you need to know your limit, because sometimes we had cormorants or herd pilots canceling searches because the weather was too bad.
Tony:I'm sure it was always difficult. It was always a difficult decision for them to make because there's always a lot at stake with searches and you need, but you need to think of your crew and your crew safety and yours as well. And like, specifically remember a medevac where a vessel was in the St. George's Bay in Newfoundland and the weather was so bad that the quorum had to cancel the mission and the coast guard people at the RCC were were livid, but the the air coordinator just looked at me and was like, man, just just know your limit. That's it.
Bryan:Yeah. That's a that's a tough one. And having known a few search and rescue pilots and cormorant pilots in my in my time in the military, that's like the hardest decisions they have to make is the times where they have to say no. Like, nobody wants to say no. Everybody wants to go out and accomplish the mission, especially when there's lives on the line.
Bryan:So that's really tough, but it's an important lesson to learn early.
Tony:Yeah, absolutely.
Bryan:Did you find it was tough being surrounded by flying but not flying yet? Or did you find it provided you with inspiration?
Tony:Honestly, I loved it. Working at the RCC, it wasn't even an option after basic training, you know, they ask you, do you want to go? And I think I put four thirteen, I put COMOG search and rescue and four thirty squadron Quebec City. RCC wasn't even an option, so I was really surprised when I got there but I loved it and it taught me a lot of useful things before starting my flying career. Like, I had to learn how to read METAR and TAFS and GFAs.
Bryan:METARs, TAFS and GFAs are all aviation weather products.
Tony:I was also super lucky to go and I did have a little bit of experience because I was super lucky to go and fly around Newfoundland with a one hundred three squadron for a week and we did, we were just flying over Grosse Morne National Park.
Bryan:Oh,
Tony:cool. And we got, yeah, we got called to do a search of a kayakist that was going from Blancs Abon, Quebec to Newfoundland through the Strait Of Belleville. So he was missing. He's been missing for a couple of days unfortunately. But yeah, I'd say I really had a good time and I found it pretty inspirational to see it from the ground and see it from the air on my time at the RCC.
Bryan:Did that give you any pull towards, search and rescue as a community or?
Tony:Oh, totally. When I when I
Bryan:I'm putting the cart before the horse a little bit but
Tony:Yeah. I when I joined, I wanted to be a cormorant pilot and I was telling my major at the time that that's what I wanted to do so that's why he was able to put me on a trip to Newfoundland. But yeah, when I went through pilot training, a lot of the guys that were going helos were getting the cyclone and there was a lot of weight to get your OTU done with the cyclone and I don't know, I didn't want to wait to do my pilot training and because at that time I've had enough of the weight and, I didn't want to risk not getting the Cormorant because it's also such a, it's a great platform and of course everybody wants to fly it. So it's in high demand. So it's very hard to get.
Bryan:For sure. Yeah. So let's talk about when you actually began your flight training, take us to Porto De Sa Prairie for phase one. What stands out from that early flying on the globe?
Tony:It was like entering a whole new world. My English at the time wasn't that great and I didn't know anything about flying. So everything was brand spanking new to me. The learning curve felt a little bit steep at first, I eventually got over it and you have the option to do your phase one, at least at the time in French. Oh.
Tony:Yeah, but I didn't want to do that because my whole career I knew was going to be in English and like just, I had to get to learn everything in English, like just trial by fire.
Bryan:Yeah, for sure. You have to eventually push through it.
Tony:Yeah, because it's the international language of aviation, so you kind of have to. Finding the Grove, would say it was a great experience, it's a small little plane that can do some like pretty basic aerobatics, it's a good trainer. Pro tip for future students, just don't have a gigantic bowl of pasta before your first flight. Yeah, I of course did not keep that bowl of pasta in. It was in the middle of the summer and there was a lot of manure on the fields in Manitoba and you know, like the fields are so dark, they absorb heat and the heat rises and flying over them was like hitting waves the, but with the plane and, super bumpy and, yeah, didn't keep it in.
Bryan:Oh no.
Tony:Yeah. It was a it was a pretty funny story for all of my course mates at the time.
Bryan:Yeah. No kidding. That's that's
Tony:pretty funny. Yeah.
Bryan:You you also mentioned that landing the Globe gave you some challenges. What was difficult about it and how did you work through that?
Tony:So my main issue with, landing the grove was the, was the flare. I would flare at the right time but I would pull too much creating a sort of a balloon on the landing and then the plane instead of settled would just slam on the ground. So I was probably just scared of hitting the ground because I've at that time probably had like eighteen hours of experience, I don't know. I couldn't figure out how to make it work but then I talked, it's funny how everything came during the same time. I remember talking with one of my course mates and he just told me, well, the way he said it was like, bro, so easy.
Tony:And I was like, yeah, it's not that easy. But he basically just said, just try to fly the plane for as long as you can and then it'll settle on its own on the ground. And then the next day, my instructor comes for the brief. Now we're on the pre, we're on the pre solo, I think it was the second ED flight.
Bryan:So a second extra duel?
Tony:Yeah, second extra duel, yeah. And he just goes and he's like, I was thinking about your landing on your way back from work yesterday and I think I found a solution. Just start your flare a little earlier than you usually do and then just try to fly the plane over the ground as long as you can. It's funny because it's basically what my friend just told me and then I don't know what happened, it just worked.
Bryan:It just clicked,
Tony:It just clicked on that flight. The first landing that like I nailed the first one, I nailed the second one, after the second one, I remember him taking control and going like, who are you? And it was, yeah, it was great. It was, this instructor worked a lot, worked a lot with me and it was, I'm very recognizant of that.
Bryan:It's a great example of how much the instructors here in Portage care about the students, like that he was on his way home and he hasn't he's not like, okay, work's done, I'm out of here. Like he's thinking about how can I help that student? Like while he's driving home still, Like they really care.
Tony:Yeah, I think he even stopped on the side of the road to write it down on a post it note and then he shows me the post it note the next morning. I'm like, wow,
Advertisement:all right. That's huge.
Tony:I really appreciate that. He also I had a little bit of air sickness on the grove, not as bad as the Harvard but yeah, he worked a lot on that. Like we would do loops after loops after loops until I was pretty close to get it sick and then we'd just stop and then keep on going. Yeah, I'll be forever thankful for the instructor.
Bryan:That's awesome. So once you finished phase one, what was it like going back to Halifax? Did it feel like a delay or did you find value and a chance to rest and recover after your training?
Tony:It didn't really feel like a delay. Phase one was busy because it's such a short course and I really appreciated the change of pace and going back to my routine in Halifax.
Bryan:Yeah. So next up was Moose Jaw for phase two on the Harvard two. Most people would say phase two is an intense course. How did it feel when you were on your way to Moose Jaw to start the course in 2019?
Tony:I was very excited to go fly the Herc. Sorry, the Herc, the Harvard. It was a very long trip from Halifax and I ended up doing a convoy with some of my buddies from phase one.
Bryan:Oh,
Tony:cool. Yeah, on the way there, it was kind of a bummer, they amended our course date as we were, everybody was on our way. So we were supposed to start in March and then they were like, oh, actually you're gonna start in May. And like, oh, well that's annoying, okay. But I still like, I felt super eager and excited to fly to Harvard because I remember being on phase one and a lot of the phase three students were telling us like, oh yeah, I should fly the Harvard, it's harder but like you should do it for your phase two, like it's such a fun plane to fly.
Tony:For sure. Yeah.
Bryan:So what did you guys do when your core state changed? Did you still go to Moose Jaw and then do like a month, two months of OJT there or did you have to turn around or what happened?
Tony:Oh, I wish I wish I could have turned around. But no. They they were like, no. You guys would still come to Moose Jaw and then we just worked what's it called?
Bryan:The Tasker Shack?
Tony:The Tasker Shack. Just making sure everybody had their gear down. Yeah. Yeah.
Bryan:So for listeners, the Tasker Shack, I think I did maybe one shift there. They basically sit in a little hut between the two runways and they check every aircraft to make sure their gear are down. And correct me if I'm wrong but if they aren't, there's like flares that you have to launch if they don't respond to warnings.
Tony:Yeah, you'll, I'm pretty sure you have a radio to, that is on the tower frequency to let them know and then, yeah, there's a button for for fares. Yeah.
Bryan:Yeah. So you hit multiple delays during phase two. There was winter weather, serviceability issues, of course COVID and then air sickness. How hard was that period mentally?
Tony:I would say it would depend on the day. But overall, it wasn't too too bad. I was lucky to be surrounded by a good group of people in Moose Jaw, so that helped a lot. And Moose Jaw was like a roller coaster of emotion, lots of up and downs but I overall enjoyed my time there but yet the course the delays, they're annoying but there's nothing you can do sometimes.
Bryan:Yeah, it's kind of part of it's just part of going through flight training in the in the military. Like, some people have a super smooth experience and they're done in like two years and, you know, it's like, cow. They're already operational. And then you'll meet somebody who took like five years to get through flight training just because of stuff totally out of their hands.
Tony:Yeah, exactly. It's yeah. That's a great way to put it. And I remember having a sim instructor and was like, man, I feel bad for you guys. You guys have been here forever.
Tony:I remember joining at 19 and I at 21, I was an aircraft commander on the Globemaster. Well, must have been nice.
Bryan:Yeah, yeah. Or
Tony:'22, he said he got his wing in basically like a year and a half and then it was done his OTs, yeah, Sorry, he wasn't an AC in two years, that wouldn't make sense. Anyway, he had a really brief time in pilot training and he just felt bad for us.
Bryan:Yeah. I mean, like, like we said, it just, it goes both ways sometimes. So you mentioned or or we mentioned that you had some air sickness issues. We've talked about that a little bit. It it can be a huge mountain for a lot of student pilots.
Bryan:How bad did it get for you?
Tony:Yeah. Pretty bad. So I felt it honestly on my first flight on the Harvard. The Grove wasn't too bad, like I said, like I got her sick, I believe twice in it but in the Harvard, it was every flight.
Bryan:Oh wow, like you were throwing up every flight?
Tony:Or dry heaving.
Bryan:Oh gosh.
Tony:Yeah, so, I think it's something about the way the Harvard props spin that like accentuates the air sickness and I would fight my way through the area work but it was every time I would get back to the pattern work and all of those 16 twos you have to pull, I would always pretty much get sick between the point eight and the 1.1 mark, like just towards the end of the trip.
Bryan:Oh yeah, like you're talking, when you say point eight, one point one, you're talking about like a time, like point eight of an hour kind of thing.
Tony:Yeah, yeah, sorry. Yeah, because usually like the flights are, I think 1.2 in Mouche, so I was like very close to the end of every trip and I would always, yeah, get sick and it was kind of funny because then you get sick so you're grounded, then the next morning you go and you see the flight surgeon to be ungrounded and I would go on a flight and then not all the instructors did it but I would go on a flight, I would almost finish the flight pretty much, get sick, they would call the emergency and then I would see the same med tech and flight surgeon in the ambulance waiting for me. They're like, weren't you just here with us this morning? Like, I'll see you tomorrow.
Bryan:So they had to declare an emergency every time you got sick and then there would be an ambulance waiting?
Tony:Yeah. So don't know, that that was kind of a gray area. I think it's technically a physiological emergency Mhmm. But not not every instructors declared it. Yeah.
Bryan:It's up to their judgment.
Tony:Yeah. Exactly.
Bryan:Yeah. One quick thing I wanted to decode for the listeners. You mentioned 60 and twos. That's a 60 degree turn done at two g, and that's like your standard turn in the pattern. So just imagine doing circuits over and over again.
Bryan:And every single time you turn, your body weighs twice as much, and it can be pretty tough on your stomach. Tony mentioned as well the prop, the way it the way it rotates. There there's something. Like, most people who've flown the Harvard at some point have felt airsick to an extent. I know I did, and I don't really get airsick.
Bryan:There's just something about it the way I don't know if it's the way the torque action is in the plane or the way it's centered right on your body behind the engine or or what it is. I've heard lots of people say different different reasons, but for some reason, the Harvard seems to be pretty bad for people who get airsick.
Tony:Yeah, absolutely.
Bryan:So you spent six weeks on the spin course. Can you explain what the spin course is and what that experience was like?
Tony:Yeah, of course. So before you get to the spin course, the flight surgeon in Moosha will want you to try to push through the air sickness. I believe her name was Major Gear, she was a great flight surgeon, really helpful with air sickness, Gave me a lot of tips, like have opening the flight suit, having the vent on the belly, breathing through the nose, not through the mouth, imagining yourself basically on top of a mountain cause when you get airsick you're hot and sweaty but also like feel a little bit cold cause it's cold in the plane and it's kind of as if you were like hiking a mountain, so just that visualization. If you can't push through a couple of flights, they're going to make you try some pills. One is the, like it's just a very heavy gravel but that makes you drowsy so they give you an upper.
Tony:So you do two flights with that and yeah, those flights with those pills were amazing. I was fully into the flight, aware of everything that was going on, not worried about the air sickness. I was honestly, I was wired.
Bryan:Yeah.
Tony:But I just remember being like, oh, so that's what it feels not being sick in the plane, how great is that? Then I was able to make it through Clear Hood eight, which is your solo flight on the Harvard, then Clearhood nine was the first time you do aerobatics and the first role I did, was like, I was telling my instructor, I'm sorry sir, like I can't and then I started to get sick so we came back home and then the fire surgeon was like, all right, we'll get just gonna put you on a spin course. Luckily the machine was not broken because I've heard people waiting for the machine to work before doing it, so I was pretty much in and out. So the spin course, the goal is to get you to, sorry, you're When I did it, you were in the on a chair in like a kind of a little enclosed area, you can't see your surrounding and you're facing a camera and the goal is to spin 20 rotation per minute, twenty seven minutes, twice a day, clockwise and counterclockwise. Gross.
Tony:Okay, but you don't start at 20 RPM, you start maybe four RPM but that's not this, that's not the end. Every twenty seconds, there's gonna be a med tech with you that will tell you movements and you need to tilt your head to the front, to the left, to the right and to the back Oh no. Within five seconds and every twenty seconds you do that and it's just a mess with your inner ear.
Bryan:Yeah. If anybody is wondering what that's like, if you have an office chair at home, get someone to spin you around on it and then tilt your head around and you will feel like you're gonna fall over, like it's that's awful.
Tony:Yeah. And at the same time, I was kind of the guinea pig to of the flight surgeon because she had made, with partnership with another flight surgeon in The States, a a new chair that was basically mimicking being in the plane a lot better. So you could see your surrounding like you would in the plane, you had, it was an airplane seat, you had a stick and you had to put your helmet on like you were flying and then from there you could do as many movements as you want, for this one it was just ten minutes because ten minutes somehow it worked for this chair and then for this one you would, for every movement you would close your eyes and you would either tilt your whole body to the left or to the right to simulate the 16.2 like you would in the plane and it really feels like one or you would turn your left to the left, to the right, look up, look down with your eyes closed and this chair is rougher but works a lot better and you only have to do ten minutes instead of twenty seven, which is great.
Tony:Yeah. It's very rough on the body. Obviously I was very tired every day. Pro tip for everybody that will have to go through this, Mr. Freeze after the spins, best thing ever.
Tony:I don't know what it does but it helps with the recovery, helps with your, I don't know, the sugar.
Bryan:What's Mr. Freeze?
Tony:Oh, you don't know what's mister Freeze? Damn. I don't know what you guys call it in English. That's funny, we call it mister Freeze in French, but it's like those
Bryan:Like a slushie or a freezy or
Tony:Yeah. Freezy. Sorry. Yeah. It's a freezy.
Tony:There you go.
Bryan:Okay.
Tony:Anyway, they're great and I'm pretty sure all of the flights in Moose Jaw will have them in the freezer, just pay 50¢ for it to your canteen and then yeah, they're great. But yeah, so the goal is just to spin 20 RPM for ten minutes, twice a day, counterclockwise and clockwise or 27 whichever chair you use and not to puke because once you get, oh that's the other big thing, once you start to feel sick, that's when they stop the rotation, not stop the rotation, but they stop the increase in RPM and you're stuck there for the rest of the ten or twenty seven minutes.
Bryan:Oh my gosh. What happens if you actually get sick? Do they stop?
Tony:Yeah. They stop. Yeah. Okay. But you're you're trying real hard to not get there.
Bryan:Are you flying while you're on the spin course?
Tony:So I was I was being very pushy at that time to keep flying because I had done my IIT at the time.
Bryan:Which is an initial instrument test?
Tony:Yes, sorry, your first instrument test and I remember telling the flight surgeon, hey, I don't get airsick when I fly instrument, like when I fly ifar, can I just keep flying on instruments? She was like, that's kind of We've never done that but okay, as long as you don't spin and fly the same day. So there was a bit of a delay. Oh yeah, that's what happened. There was a bit of a delay, sorry, for the spin course, like a couple of weeks.
Tony:So I had to wait actually, but yeah, I pushed a little bit. I was a little bit annoying with my flight commander and the flight surgeon, but they let me do instrument flying until I started the spin course. So I did all of my IF to the bit, then I started the spin course.
Bryan:Which is the basic instrument test?
Tony:Yeah. Which is just a it's just a round robin. You go, I think for mine, we went to swift current and back and you do a hold and you need to do a non precision and a precision approach and then
Bryan:A point to point as well, I think.
Tony:Oh, yeah. You need to do a point to point to the hold. Yeah. And they, yes, they let me do all of my strength flying completed before I started the spin course. So I was really grateful for that because I I felt like I was still moving even though like Mhmm.
Tony:I had to pause a little bit of my training.
Bryan:For sure. You also experienced some test performance anxiety. Can you tell us about this?
Tony:Yeah. So I had a little bit of a, let's call it, testitis. Yeah. So I think I overthink a lot during my tests and I may even though I know I shouldn't think a bit too much about past mistakes while it's happening and I lose track of the gold of just like what's coming next and I think of like my past mistakes, oh like, is that a big deal? Oh, damn.
Tony:You know, you get in this like sort of mental loop of I did something wrong, I'm kind of screwed. Yeah. Yeah. Also there was a sorry, there wasn't a lot of there was a lack of consistency sometimes with all of the weights. So it was I felt a lot of self induced pressure as well performing because of because of that.
Tony:Yeah.
Bryan:Oh, you mean because, like, you weren't consistently flying because of the different delays and things?
Tony:Yeah. Delays, air sickness. Yeah. All that fun stuff.
Bryan:Yeah. That's tough. Consistency is really key when you're flight training and and they know that too. Right? Like, they look at those factors when somebody runs into trouble.
Bryan:Some people like end up on what's called a PRB, right? A personnel review board to see like Yeah. They've had they've run out of time. They've had so many failures in a row, whatever the criteria are. And they'll look at how they has this person been able to train consistently?
Bryan:And that's a major factor.
Tony:Oh, absolutely. And it's it's it's it's the same during training and on the operational units as well.
Bryan:Yeah. So speaking of test performance anxiety, you mentioned failing a few flights such as your initial clear hood test, which is basically flying visually and performing visual maneuvers and your basic low level navigation tests. How did you mentally bounce back from that? Because that adds a lot of pressure.
Tony:Yeah, is a lot of pressure and I would say spending a lot of time at the gym helped a lot. It helps a lot mentally and physically. There was also a mental coach in Moosha that I had a couple of appointments with, who helped me a lot. She was big on the staying positive, practicing mindfulness, those kinds of things with which I think helped a lot, helped me a lot. Stay in the books, chair fly a lot, booking the sim on the weekend was very helpful, especially after the initial clear hood test and, trying to think of different scenarios that could happen with your buddies, trying to make it like a social thing.
Bryan:Like if this happens, you know, let's say this goes wrong, what would you do?
Tony:Yeah. What do you do? Because we do it a lot in Moose Jaw for emergencies, but we don't do it for like random thing. Yeah. Like, I don't know, how would you split the area if like a third guy show up and you're on the West Side, like, but you need to do your slow flight stall sequence or something.
Tony:You need like a little bit more room. I don't know, like those kinds of scenarios. So like helps you think about contingencies and a lot of humor as well will help. I remember because of my spin course, I got put on another course with funny enough, a buddy of mine from Gatsby, we were both doing our pilot training in at the same time, which is kind of crazy like it's Gatsby is such a small town, like it's, I think we're 15,000 people there. So they're both of us same age ending up in Moosha was pretty cool.
Tony:And then we both, when we did the, we were also form partners and when we did our form tests, we both had failed the BNC and the ICHT and we were jokingly saying, well, this is the last flight on the Harvard no matter what. So for those that don't know, you failed three tests in Moose Jaw, you get on a PRB. So if both of us would have failed that test, we would have gone on PRB. Who knows what was going to happen but I don't know. I felt like humor would help a lot, was helping a lot.
Bryan:For sure. So what advice would you give to future students who struggle with air sickness or performance anxiety?
Tony:So for performance anxiety, I would say a lot's chair flying. Chair flying will help a lot, will make you ready for a lot of the trips and what will happen, will help you stay ahead of the plane and I would also say that if you make a mistake, it doesn't mean you failed the test or the flight, just move on to the next thing and focus on the next step. You'll always know the profile of your flight or your tests in Moosha or in Portage. There's a little to play with because you need to, there's a standard to be met that there's a bunch of maneuvers to be assessed and you know which maneuvers you'll be assessed on. So there's that but also make sure you sleep well, which I didn't really do, in Moose Jaw.
Tony:Now I've changed my sleeping habits but at the time I had a pretty poor sleep hygiene and of course eat well and workout. Workout will help you a lot, will put your body under stress which will help you manage stress better and help your body manage the stress of flying as well because it's very physically demanding. Also talk to your peers about their flight and their tests, what went right, what went wrong, which emergency they get. You'll notice a lot of the students will make the same mistakes, so talking with your peers will help you avoid them. Our flight commander at the time was really big on like writing down what went wrong on each of our tests and we would talk about it during the morning briefs.
Tony:And for the air sickness part, I would say don't panic if it happens to you, it happens to a lot of people. It might, for some people it might go away, for some people it might not. Others you might be good after the, after you take the pills and, for some you might have to do a spin course. It's just a little speed bump and you can get over it and I forgot to mention once you're done all of the spinning portion, you need to do five flights in the Harvard with an instructor and they'll they'll do some phase three maneuvers to try and make you sick and, once you're done with that, you're done with the spin course. Okay.
Tony:Yeah, I forgot to mention that one. Yeah, I don't know, was pretty cool for me, right from day one, the guy was putting some crazy vertical maneuvers, forgot what's the name of it but they just go like straight up for like 4,000 feet, they need to pull like seven gs's or something. Anyway, I didn't feel sick so it was great and yeah, I got over it.
Bryan:Awesome. So how did you keep persevering through two whole years on what is typically an eight month course in Moose Jaw?
Tony:So I would say staying positive was the would be the biggest thing. Don't forget that Moose Jaw is a marathon, not a sprint. And although mine was more of an ultra marathon, is what it is. Everybody will have a different experience in Moose Jaw but staying positive is what made me go through. In the grand scheme of things, an extra year in Moose Jaw won't change much in my career.
Tony:It's fine. I even ended up meeting my girlfriend when I was there. Thanks to all of those delays. Yeah, There's a bright side to everything. So just trying to trying to find that.
Bryan:Yeah. I I've said that to people before. It is really frustrating when you're in training and you're just so anxious to be done and to have your wings and you want to get on that operational side of flying. It It can be really frustrating when you run into delays. But I guarantee you in like five years, even in two years after that, when you're not gonna look back and think, oh man, what a waste of my life.
Bryan:Like, I wish I hadn't spent that year or or five months or whatever extra time on that course. Like, you're not even gonna think about it. So just try to enjoy the time and it will pass.
Tony:Oh, yeah.
Bryan:Your NAV solo phase on phase two was one of your favorite trips of your entire career. Can you walk us through that flight?
Tony:Yeah. So this one's gonna sound a little bit chill cheesy because, like, you don't you don't do anything crazy, but at the time, like, it felt like a lot to me. Mhmm. I just loved that flight because it it was it was a very busy flight. So the nav solo flight I did was the South route and it was a pretty busy route with a lot of small legs, so you need to do your checks very quickly and I just remember hitting like all of my timings and turning points and visually acquiring them all the time and always within a couple seconds and I also shagged the target, I had to deconflict with another traffic while I was doing my routes on such short legs and I remember when I did the rejoin, get on 10 miles lake and they're like, oh yeah, you're number six for the overhead break.
Tony:I'm like, Okay. Like for the overhead break, I get told I had to fly through. Okay, so I fly through, turn crosswind, I see a traffic that I'm clearly gonna hit. So I do a breakout, turn, sorry, do breakout, come for the other and another rejoin and then, I don't know, it was just a very busy flight that kinda, that I feel I managed really well and kind of make me realize that I had what it takes to make it and it was just a great, just felt like a great motivational boost after like a lot of setbacks before. I still failed my basic nav test, but nav was still my my favorite part of the of the course.
Tony:It's it's very procedural. It's I don't know. I just I just loved it.
Bryan:Yeah. Nav is really challenging. It's really interesting. If I remember correctly, think we fly it at 500 feet and 240 knots. Is that right?
Tony:Yeah. Like from 500 feet and five miles four miles a minute. Yeah.
Bryan:Yeah. You know, for people who've never done that, it's not like crazy low, but it is low. Yeah. And it's low enough that like your normal visual references are different. You you can't see as far.
Bryan:So when you're trying to pick up landmarks, like you really have to learn. They call it big to small, like or so you find a large landmark and then you work your way into a smaller landmark to kind of figure out where you are. And there's just all these new skills that you have to put in. And and like you said, like when you finally master that, it is a huge confidence booster.
Tony:Yeah. Watch map ground, big, medium, small.
Bryan:Yeah. Yeah. That's right. After two tough years in phase two, you jumped to phase three quickly. Was that momentum shift motivating or were you feeling the fatigue of being on course for so long?
Tony:I was ready to jump straight into it and get it done. I really appreciated that it was a short wave. I felt, yeah, I felt ready, my hands and feet were there and I just wanted to attack phase three right away.
Bryan:So it was, it was great. That's awesome. So just ready to keep going and get it done.
Tony:Yeah, absolutely.
Bryan:When you finally earned your wings in the 2021, what did that moment mean to you?
Tony:I was extremely proud. At that time it was the summon of my career, which I'm sure for a lot of pilots it is once you get your wings. Took me four years to get there and a lot of works and I finally reached my goal, so I was pretty proud.
Bryan:Yeah. That's a day that pilots in the RCAF never forget. Like, I distinctly remember being on parade, marching up, getting my wings, looking down and seeing, I kept looking down over and over again seeing these wings on my chest just like, you know, thrilled that I'd finally made it. We said here that was in 2021. So by that point, were they having wings parades again?
Tony:Yes. I believe we were the first ones to be able to have parade and people in the attendance, but we were the only ones on parade. So it was yeah. It was an interesting feeling.
Bryan:Yeah. Because normally the whole school would be on parade. Right? But this was just kind of still rolling through COVID. So it wasn't 2020 where nobody had parades and they were getting their wings like in online Zoom ceremonies, but it was still not the full experience.
Bryan:Did you guys have a mess dinner or no?
Tony:No. No mess dinner. We were supposed to, but no mess dinner.
Bryan:Yeah. Which is tough. Those are those are fun. That's a big moment. But, you know, you'll have lots of mess dinners in your career.
Tony:Yeah. I've had a couples already. It's they're fun.
Bryan:Yeah. So you were posted to four three six Transport Squadron in Trenton, Ontario. And by this time, that was your first choice. Why four three six?
Tony:Yeah. So like I mentioned earlier, when I joined, I wanted to fly the corn route but the way the people going through phase three helos, the way they were pushed, I wasn't really interested in that. So going through phase two, I heard about and going through my NAV phase at the same time. So I heard about a platform that was doing low level navigation at 200 feet AGL in formation and doing airdrop at the same time And I was like, that sounds pretty wicked. Yeah.
Tony:Like, I I wanna do that. Yeah.
Bryan:Yeah. That does sound awesome, especially where you were loving your low level nav training.
Tony:Yeah. Yeah. I I felt like it was a good match for me. Yeah.
Bryan:Yeah. For sure. So you began going through your operational training unit course or OTU on the CC one thirty j. What's the biggest leap for you from a training aircraft to the Hercules?
Tony:I'd say just the sheer size of the plane is is so imposing at first. Like the Harvard and the King Air are relatively small. There's a lot more buttons, a lot more stuff to learn. But yeah, I would say the size of it was very imposing. And like, still look at the Herc sometime and I just take a step back and remind myself that I fly this gigantic machine like I was flying the King Air or the Harvard, like it's nothing.
Bryan:Yeah. I had the same feeling going to the Aurora. It's just like this at first, it's like this big thing. Like, the first time you taxi, it's like, wow. I gotta be careful here.
Bryan:Like, my wings are sticking way out and like, it's this big thing you're maneuvering and eventually it's like driving a car. Like, you're just as comfortable in it as as anything else.
Tony:Absolutely.
Bryan:You deployed just weeks after the OTU. What was your mindset heading out the door that early in your J model career?
Tony:I really didn't know what to expect. At that time, I've never done any strategic mission. So most of my trips in my career were just local trainers, either in pilot training or on DOTU. I've only flown in Canada as well. So I was very excited to experience something new and finally see the world with the CAF.
Tony:So I was very, very excited.
Bryan:This deployment was for Op Reassurance. Can you briefly tell us the mission of this op as well as the role of your crew within it?
Tony:Yeah. So Op Reassurance is, it's in support of NATO's deterrence and defense efforts in Central And Eastern Europe. I believe it started after the invasion of Crimea.
Bryan:Okay.
Tony:So we were deployed with the Air Task Force Prestwick and Prestwick is basically a hub where we can support other operations like impact or presence, impacting Kuwait and presence in Africa. And so what we're doing mostly is to support reassurance and it's just bringing supply to the to people in Ukraine. Okay. Yeah. So just strategically for up reassurance and, yeah, bringing supply for Ukraine.
Bryan:And your first strategic flight involved moving missiles to a neighboring country of Ukraine at night on an instrument landing system or ILS to a continue call. Can you explain what a continue call is and what you remember from that flight?
Tony:Yeah. So a continued call is just a it's just a call the AC can make to when they have the runway environment inside to allow you to descend below the minimum decision altitude on your precision approach. So it just allows you to it gives you that extra second to be able to make a decision before making your go around.
Bryan:Yeah. Because normally you would get to that decision height and either say visual 12:00 landing or overshoot,
Tony:right?
Bryan:Yeah, exactly. And so this gives you a couple more seconds to get that insight and make it hopefully make a call to land.
Tony:Yeah, hopefully. And we did, we did that time and it was the lights, the lights were so bright. They had like a intensity five so we can, so we can see it. It was a, it was a pretty good first strat trip. A lot of, a lot of first and a lot of, well, this is the real world.
Bryan:Yeah. What's it like when you're like a brand new FO, you're coming in in a Herc, you're carrying missiles in the back of your aircraft and you're coming through this obviously intense weather because it's gonna be and the weather must have been pretty bad if you guys had to go to a continue call and then finally you see the runway environment. Were you landing or was your AC landing?
Tony:Yeah. Was pilot flying. Yeah. Pretty awesome feeling to just see everything all working together and thinking of everyone involved to get that cargo delivered for Ukraine. It's yeah.
Tony:It was it was great.
Bryan:After that flight, your AC turned to you and said, welcome to 4 36. Did that moment feel like initiation?
Tony:Yeah. Absolutely. We we landed and I was like, that was crazy. And she's like, yep. Welcome to welcome to 436.
Tony:Yeah, I feel like everyone's first trip has a crazy story or something like that. Mine was just, like I said, just a great exposure of what the operational world actually is.
Bryan:So near the end of that deployment, you had to be medevaced, what happened?
Tony:Yeah, so my blood pressure got really high. So high that I had to be hospitalized for a night in Scotland, then medevac a couple of days after that. Turns out my kidneys were in pretty rough shape causing the blood pressure to be high. So in January, the 01/01/2022, sorry, 2023, yeah, I got medevaced back home and I got hospitalized at the Belleville hospital for three days. Yeah, and like they gave me a little bit of blood pressure medication in Scotland, but they, it was still pretty high so they decided to medevac me.
Tony:That was only like four days from coming back from deployment. And then I get to Belleville hospital and the doctor there was like, how are you feeling, man? I'm like, I feel good doc, what's up? He's like, you're, I think my blood pressure was like two thirty four for 134 or something ridiculous like that. And he's like, you're fine.
Tony:Like, I'm like, yeah, I could like, I could do like 20 pushups right now, run a five ks with you if you want, like, feel fine. He's like, okay, you're very interesting case. And I'm like, okay, that's awesome but can we get it low now? And he's like, yeah, I'm going to be replaced soon by a doctor that is a kidney specialist, a nephrologist. So I got super lucky, Doctor.
Tony:Weinstein, They shoot out to Doctor. Weinstein. He just showed up, asked me a couple of questions, came back and then in a matter of seconds gave me some pills. My blood pressure went down to 120 over 80 and then it was fine. He's been following me ever since.
Tony:He's a great doctor.
Bryan:Awesome. So it's good that you had some, he knew what to do and and now things are good.
Tony:Well, yeah, he's a he's a blood pressure and kidney specialist. Like he knew exactly what to do right away. Was, it was pretty nice to see.
Bryan:Wow. Looking back, what was harder, the medical emergency itself or being pulled off the deployment so close to finishing it?
Tony:Both both were pretty hard, I would say the medical emergency because it was a very big surprise and then I was left with like nothing but questions for so long because it was the holidays and no one was working really and I didn't have a diagnosis, I didn't know what was going on and I didn't know what was gonna happen to my career. So yeah, the medical stuff I would say was the hardest.
Bryan:Yeah, how did you actually find out in the first place that your blood pressure was so high? Like what led to you going to the hospital?
Tony:So I had a blood pressure monitor with me and then I just remember laying in bed and I could, like it's weird to say but like I could feel my heartbeat just being in bed and I was like, that's not normal. So then I took it and it was very high and I was like, oh, damn. So I went to see my EC and then we went to see the med tech that we had on the detachment and then we started the whole process to just monitor, go to the hospital, stay calm, try not to lift heavy things and stuff like that.
Bryan:Wow. Yeah. So you ended up grounded for almost all of twenty twenty three and then ungrounded on your birthday. How did that set the tone for everything that came next including Operation Christmas Drop?
Tony:It basically just opened the gates to a lot of opportunity for me to fly the next year and I had a lot of flying to catch up, let's say. And I was ready and eager to get back on the saddle and Christmas drop was just a cherry on top last year of a great year of flying with a we had a great group of aviators in the in the Christmas drop last year.
Bryan:So we're getting ready to close out this part of the episode. As someone who once watched the snowbirds at a hometown air show and dreamed of serving, what does it mean to you now so many years later to be preparing for a mission like Operation Christmas Drop during the holiday season?
Tony:Yeah, this one's gonna sound cheesy as well, but I don't care. It's just a dream come true. I'm very fortunate to be doing this job and flying around the world, discovering new cultures, new food, new music, new places. Sometimes I feel like we have to remind ourselves that and not everybody has the chance to travel like we do in the way we do it. So I'm very, very fortunate.
Bryan:Yeah. Yeah. All right, Tony, that's going to wrap up part one of our conversation. It's been great hearing about your journey through training and those early steps into your operational career. In part two, we'll pick things up with your deployments, your path to becoming an aircraft commander, and your experiences on Operation Christmas Drop, a perfect fit for this time of year as we head towards Christmas.
Bryan:So thank you again for joining me, and we'll see you in part two.
Tony:Alright. Talk to you then.
Bryan:Alright. That wraps up part one of our chat with Tony all about his flight training and the beginning of his time on the c one thirty j. Tune in next week to hear about his operational time on the c one thirty j as well as his time last year on operation Christmas drop and preparing for this year's operation Christmas drop. Do you have any questions or comments about anything you've heard in this show? Would you or someone you know make a great guest, or do you have a great idea for a show?
Bryan:You can reach out to us at the pilotprojectpodcast@Gmail.com or on all social media at at pod pilot project. And be sure to check out that social media for lots of great videos of our RCAF and mission aviation aircraft. As always, we'd like to thank you for tuning in and ask for your help with the big three. That's like and follow us on social media, share with your friends, and follow and rate us five stars wherever you get your podcasts. That's all for now.
Bryan:Thanks for listening. Keep the blue side up. See you. Engineer, shut down all four. Shutting down all four engines.