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A podcast that holds horror to standards horror never agreed to. Hosts Jeremy Whitley, Ben Kahn, Emily Martin and guests watch, read, listen to, and check out movies, tv shows, comics, books, art and anything else from the horror genre and discuss it through a progressive lens. We'll talk feminism in horror, LGBTQ+ issues and representation in horror, racial and social justice in horror, disability and mental health/illness in horror, and the work of female and POC directors, writers, and creators in horror.
We're the podcast horror never agreed to take part in.
Jeremy: Good evening and welcome to
Progressively Horrified, the podcast
where we hold horror to progressive
standards it never agreed to.
Tonight, we're talking about a
film about the most horrifying
thing in the modern world.
That's right, it's men.
I am your host, Jeremy Whitley,
and with me tonight, I have a
panel of cinephiles and cino bites.
First, they're here to challenge
the sexy werewolf, sexy vampire
binary, my co host Ben Kahn.
Ben, how are you tonight?
Ben: Boy, I'm excited to dive into the
debate, does Rory Kinnear have Kenergy?
Jeremy: Oh lord.
Uh,
Ben: that is several months out of
date by the time this Podcast comes
out, but it's very relevant now, and
also probably still when it comes out,
it's gonna be a very successful movie.
Jeremy: and the seven Earl of
Cenobites, our co host, Emily Martin.
How are you tonight, Emily?
Emily: Doing alright.
I am Kinuff.
And, um,
Ben: you are.
Emily: I actually haven't seen Barbie,
but it's going to be my recommendation.
I have a whole bit.
So, we'll circle back.
Jeremy: Okay,
Emily: we're bookending
it with Barbie tonight.
Ben: My recommendation is also
Barbie, but I don't have a bit,
it's just a wonderful movie.
Emily: So I've heard.
Joe: Yes, it's really good.
Ben: Oscars for everyone!
Emily: By the time that this episode
comes out, hopefully I will have seen
Barbie, and I hope that I will be right
about all of the things I've heard, yes.
Jeremy: Yeah.
And finally, our guest tonight,
writer, editor, and friend
of the podcast, Joe Corallo.
Joe, how are you?
Joe: I'm doing well, and I'm
excited to talk about 12 Angry Men.
Jeremy: Are there 12 of them?
It seems like more.
Joe: It might be more.
Emily: I mean, in those little
British towns there's probably 12.
Ben: I, I wanna ask, in terms of
like, grown man face on little
boy body, who did it better?
This movie, or Mark Prosh in Season
4 of What We Do in the Shadows.
Emily: Both of them
Jeremy: by what you
mean by better, because
Ben: Great, great point!
Jeremy: this one
Ben: point!
Jeremy: It does what it's
supposed to do in this movie,
which is be extremely unnerving.
Emily: Yes.
Ben: creepy and weird.
Emily: Yeah, I think the situation
of little Colin Robinson.
I don't know that, that
upset me in a different way.
I'm still trying to process that.
And let's move on.
Ben: That still feels like an AO3
fic that they actually filmed.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Uh,
Emily: Which makes me
more uncomfortable now.
Jeremy: well, before we jump too much
into the discussion of all the ins and
outs and weirdness of this movie, uh, we
should go ahead and note the basics here.
It is directed by Alex Garland.
It is written by Alex Garland.
We have discussed a couple of
Alex Garland movies on here, both
annihilation and geez, what am I?
Not remembering now
Ben: X
Emily: Yes,
Jeremy: Machina.
Yeah, a movie that's actually
about AI, not whatever the
fuck people think AI is now.
Uh, this one stars Jesse Buckley.
Papa Isidou, and Rory Kinnear,
and Rory Kinnear, and Rory
Kinnear, and Rory Kinnear, and
Rory Kinnear, and Rory Kinnear.
Ben: Machina.
A real Norbit kind of
performance from Rory Kindeer.
Jeremy: I will say Rory Kinnear does
an excellent job of being creepy in a
lot of different ways in this movie.
Ben: Aw, so many varieties of creepy.
He's got creepy priest, creepy cop,
creepy kid, creepy groundskeeper landlord.
Emily: Creepy stalker
with leaves in his face.
Jeremy: know,
Ben: Yeah.
Jeremy: The age old tale.
Um, so, Emily, you are going to...
Recap this one.
We're gonna try and, uh, be quiet
long enough for you to, through,
yeah, trying to, trying to explain
this movie and all of the many,
many things that don't happen in it.
Emily: right.
So, our main character played
by Jessie Buckley is Harper.
She's a traumatized widow trying to cope
with the death of her abusive husband.
In order to do so, she rents a cottage in
rural England for a nice little getaway.
Fortunately, the cottage is
special and beautiful and idyllic.
I would love to stay there and
the countryside surrounding it.
As well as the little town is
beautiful and full of trees and grass
and cool tunnels that you can sing
into and it'll distort your echo.
Unfortunately, the town is populated
entirely by Roy Kinnear, who many
of us know from, uh, Our Flag
Means Death as Admiral Badminton.
And honestly, if it was Admiral
Badminton, it might be slightly better.
But alas the army of badminton who are
the landlord, vicar cop, weird, naked,
stalker, et all do everything bad a
dude can do to a woman From sexist
microaggressions to full on attempted
murder, they invented new form of
assault as they repeatedly and pointedly
give birth to themselves at Harper.
They finally stopped the grotesque.
They finally stop the grotesque cycle
when they birth Harper's dead husband.
She sits on the couch with
him and maybe stabs him?
We're not sure.
Her friend, who she's been talking
to on her phone during this whole
ordeal, finally shows up to save
her, but she's already seems to
have, uh, resolved her issues.
But I assume there will
be a lot of questions.
Um, and that's men.
There it is, folks.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Ben: You nailed it.
That was,
Joe: It's, it starts with a,
Ben: was, that really was the whole thing.
Joe: it does start with like a
four minute car commercial, though.
Emily: Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, there's a commercial
for the car and for the village.
Joe: Yeah.
Emily: And
Jeremy: you know how Alex
Garland loves the landscape.
Like, he just loves long shots of places.
Emily: you have to know where you are
Jeremy: Yeah.
And where you are is country.
Ben: Man, I've seen a lot
of shit on this podcast.
I seen mid summer and all
that fucking crazy ass shit.
I wasn't fucking ready for the Russian
nesting dolls of pregnant Rory Caners.
Emily: Yeah, as a climax of a
film, it certainly was singular
Ben: Yeah, that was like the showstopper
Emily: and it happened for like five
minutes or what felt like five minutes.
It felt like
Joe: it was, it was wild, at least.
Yeah.
Jeremy: yeah.
Ben: that was like, it's first
like jets flying over the roof and
knocking the roof off and top gun.
Like, that, like, that was
like, we gotta get this right.
This is the number one shot of the movie.
Just Rory Kinnear giving birth to
himself over and over and over again.
I
Joe: but like I wasn't the only one
who after the birth happened again
was just like all right I get it
like give birth to the ex husband
Let's let's let's get there and cuz
that's clearly where this is going and
Ben: was like, no.
Joe: finally got there,
Ben: No, we need to walk through
every fucking centimeter of it.
Emily: Yes, because that's
Jeremy: I, I feel like, They
Emily: all the
Ben: how I use centimeter UK movie?
I'm very thoughtful and
international like that.
Emily: Nice.
So inclusive.
Jeremy: really like, they really hammered
home this, they're all part of the same
beast thing at the end, because like,
it's been weirdly, popping up in different
places, and she seemed, she does seem
to think until almost the end that the
groundskeeper is legitimately a good guy,
and not one of, the other horrible guys
here until he tries to run her over with
his own car or with her own car but like,
They roll into this, all of them have the
same injuries, which are the same injuries
that we've seen her husband with after
he fell off of the roof, jumped off the
roof, it's a little unclear which it is
because the, he has threatened to kill
himself if they get divorced, but also the
neighbors think he was trying to, like,
climb down onto their balcony because she,
she had thrown him out after he punched
her yeah, so this, this last scene I
think is like, It's really the, the sort
of like driving home of this point again.
But like I, I think the thing that's
interesting about this movie to me, I
think is before the last scene, which
is the sort of idea of like just the
title and the way that, that it shows up
throughout and that she is gone through
this horrible trauma because of this
man she was married to and all she is
doing is attempting to like get some
time away by herself to get over that.
And she has bought herself time
away by spending a bunch of money.
But the money doesn't stop men from
showing up everywhere to bother her.
The church turns against her, the police
turn against her, like, very specifically,
like, all of these institutions, all
of these things that she does and
should be able to go to for comfort
and for help are all the same man who
is, you know, Uh, who is tormenting her
Ben: I can't believe Rory Kne,
cosplaying vicious from Cowboy Bebop
using Chapstick turned out to be a creep
Joe: Right, but like it's also
the full it's the full checklist
cuz it's cops the church Landlord.
Jeremy: and the bar, she
Joe: Yeah.
And the bar.
Jeremy: the bar and have a drink in
Joe: Yep.
Ben: that felt like, just
like a gift to Rory Kne.
Like, here you go, Rory, here on
the bar on the bartender taste.
You don't have to wear a wig.
You're,
Joe: Yeah,
Emily: So, and it's, it's interesting
because I think it's important to
note that the fact that everybody is
Rory Kinnear is never acknowledged.
She never is like, why is
everybody got same face?
And, it's pretty obvious why because,
Jeremy: unclear whether that's
supposed to be literal within the
film or whether that's just a meta
textual thing for us to see and note,
Ben: I
Jeremy: if they are literally all
supposed to look like the same person
and she is just face blind, I guess.
Ben: kept expecting some kind of
twist that would explain why he's
Rory Kinnear, or what Rory Kinnear's
connection was to Harper, but uh...
That twist never came.
Like, I expected that was the reveal,
like, Oh, she somehow killed the
husband instead of him jumping or
falling, like, there was a twist.
I think I just played too much
Silent Hills, and by play too much
Silent Hills, I mean watch too
many Silent Hill YouTube videos.
Jeremy: All right,
Joe: You know,
Jeremy: do you want to do the five
to ten minute spiel I'm sure you
have somewhere about the green man
and the iconography in this story?
Because I know, I know it's coming
and it seems like the apt time for it.
Ben: I'm too Jewish to know what the fuck
that statue was, but I did have in my
notes, oh, a very vagina having statue.
Emily: so the very vagina, let's start
with the very vagina having statue
because, at this point we know men, right?
the very, the vagina having
statue is, has a name that is
Gaelic and I can't pronounce it.
Ben: Oh fuck, ain't no
one can pronounce that.
Apologies to the GALA community.
Emily: apologies, especially to
my Cornwall, my Cornish ancestors.
Ben: You're good at pronouncing stuff.
Emily: Thanks.
But it translates to Julia of the Breasts.
Now, which is odd, because usually the
most prominent Part of this figure is
the vulva and it's basically like a
woman gaping or vulva and it has kind
of a folk magic interpretation, but
it's found as a motif on a lot of stuff.
So there's no, like, specific
thing that it's referring to.
It's just a thing kind of, like, the,
the horseshoe for look that appears
on architecture, which is like,
Ben: Oh good, just the lucky vagina.
Emily: Yeah, it's kind of a wild
thing and some people say that it's a,
Ben: that checks out.
I actually get that.
I actually, you know, once I say
it out loud, I kind of get it.
Emily: I mean, yeah, like, I mean, what
is a horseshoe but a uterus in iron?
Ben: Just don't put
women under horse feet.
Emily: yeah, yeah, the Spanish
Inquisition did a bad job about that.
So,
Ben: one key difference
between women and horseshoes.
Emily: although some women
do inflict horse related
activities and good for them.
And I'm, I'm not taking anything.
I'm not clarifying anything.
Thank you, Jeremy.
So, you
Ben: I'm gonna step in for Emily and
be like, cut that, cut that, cut that.
Emily: don't have to.
Ben: I think we sh I think we do have
Jeremy: Let's turn the car
and get back onto the M4
Emily: Okay, so, okay, so, yeah, the Julia
or Sheila of the Breasts is sometimes
considered a reference to a pagan goddess
of fertility, a fertility symbol, a
luck symbol, kind of like a gargoyle at
times to ward off bad spirits, Um, and
at other times it's considered a cartoon
Ben: That would have been a very
different cartoon if Greg Weisman
had gone with that design instead.
Emily: It was implied.
Like, fucking Demona had the vulva power.
She's, she fully had the vulva power,
but, um, anyway that's, uh, Sheila
and the green man in this case is
also known as the foliate head, which
also has, They pagan origins also an
architectural motif, but this is like
pan European and pan is a good way to
describe that because a lot of theories
link the foliate head back to Bacchanals
and Bacchus and depictions of Bacchus.
Now, my personal interpretation
of all of the things that I've
seen is that there is this.
Duality represented here, which has the
the green man is a spreader of seed and
the the woman is the vessel and sort
of the, the 2 sides of this, especially
with it being a font in a church.
I feel that there is a
statement being made with the
inclusion of these characters.
There's not so much referring
to any specific mythology.
But,
Ben: Now the font, that's where
like you pour the wine and then
it becomes the Jesus blood.
Emily: that, or you, you
Ben: cup it out.
Emily: you put holy water in
it and that's where you do your
anointing with the holy water.
Jeremy: It's where the Frog
Brothers have to run in and
scoop the water out so that they
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: the vampires.
Emily: exactly.
Um,
Ben: right, right, right, right,
right, that makes sense now.
Emily: yeah, and so, I mean, cause
Ben: It's not like the Stanley
Cup where you drink out of
it and be like, woo, Jesus!
Emily: The green
Ben: I guess maybe a cool church is...
Emily: yeah I don't think
this is a cool church though.
Ben: No, this is a very uncool church.
Jeremy: Yeah, so the green man is like
a symbol of male fertility and virility.
Like, it's just just as we get the at
the beginning sort of playful, but by
the end sort of painful dandelion imagery
throughout this of like the kid blows the
dandelion and the seeds go everywhere.
And then later she ingests the seeds
as the green man is chasing her with
Ben: I feel like there has to be
some Gaelic mythology or spiritual
symbolism to the dandelion.
That has pre existing roots that I
don't have the proper context for.
Jeremy: I think it's just that
it's spreading seeds everywhere
willy nilly just like it's,
Ben: Oh, it's, oh, it's just plant cum.
Oh, okay, I get that now.
Jeremy: that plant is
coming all over this movie.
Um,
Ben: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That checks it out.
Okay.
Yeah, we have a That makes way
more sense than my thing of
just like, Guess I don't get it.
No, okay, yeah, play and cum.
I'm on board now.
Emily: Make a wish.
Next time you blow on a dandelion.
Ben: Like you're jerking
off Swamp Thing himself.
Emily: that was a leap, but
Ben: I've never
Emily: be here for it.
Ben: I just got blacklisted from
Big 2 for the next 10 years.
Jeremy: I feel like if there was a
big reveal where Swamp Thing pulled
back his, leaf and there was just
a dandelion there there would be,
some people would be into that,
Emily: Some people would be
disappointed, because they would
want, like, a root, a man root, there.
Jeremy: know,
Ben: Do both.
He's Swamp Thing.
He's got all the powers of the green.
Emily: that's true.
That's true.
Good for him.
Jeremy: I
Ben: being wisely silent right now.
Jeremy: I do think the symbolism of
like the Green Man and Sheila McGee
being like this, duality throughout
the movie of like, yes, women are
there to be the vessel for men.
Like that's what the
men in this movie think.
And that's what the, you know, sort
of symbolism is pushing is sort of
like, she is nothing without this man.
She is, you know, somehow she's supposed
to feel bad that her husband has.
Theoretically committed suicide.
We're still not sure if it's intentional
or an accident, but has also threatened
to do so when she discussed breaking
up with him in the first place.
Ben: guy.
Joe: Yeah.
Emily: The guilt that she carries,
like, a lot of this is I mean,
it's implied, but she definitely
carries a lot of guilt about that.
And also this there's something
that the vicar says, and I will
say, if this hasn't been already
addressed in this in the show notes.
There are some very explicit
scenes of sexual assault.
And sexual battery,
Ben: Oh yeah, especially, uh, the last
scene with the vicar is just a full on
Emily: yeah.
Yeah, so the, the vicar attempts to rape
her in her bedroom and has the, I can't
remember the specific reference, but it's
basically like some poetic ode to the
woman as being like, powerful over the
man because she, because of her sexuality.
Um,
Jeremy: out talking
about Leta and the swan.
Ben: it's very,
Jeremy: himself the swan and, uh, that
he's, he is presumably Zeus going to
over overpower and fuck her as a swan
is, is where he's going with that.
Ben: it's giving big bad guy
from Hunchback of Notre Dame.
Joe: Yeah.
It's, um, well, well, the interesting
setup though is, you know, we,
we know why she's going here.
She bite, she bites of the fruit.
You know, they, they tie
that into it, and, yes, Ben.
Ben: Which is not like, I
was just thinking about this
world, like, there's one.
woman cop in this town.
Is everyone also Rory Kinnear to her?
Emily: I mean,
Jeremy: cops aren't from this town.
They're like, there aren't cops
that are specific to this town.
She was like if, uh, you know,
it was lucky they were nearby, it
Ben: is her partner,
Jeremy: to get there, cause they're just
Ben: is her, but her
partner was a Rory Kinnear.
Jeremy: Yeah, I mean.
Emily: he seems to be local.
I don't think she's local.
Like, he probably commutes to
whatever station of, like, Birkingham,
Stockshire, or whatever it is.
Joe: She also doesn't see
any Rory Kinnears until after
she bites into the fruit.
Emily: well, what's his face?
Is it Roy Kinnear?
Joe: Yeah, but he comes in,
you know, right after that.
Ben: are we, so I first, when I
first saw that, not knowing, but I
was like, oh, this is Eve imagery,
which I don't know how to fucking
interpret that, pregnant Rory Kinnear.
But I like what you're saying, where
it may be more, uh, Persephone imagery.
Where she is now eating the fruit
of the dead, and is now in that
world of horror, slash Russian
Joe: would be...
Ben: of pregnant Rory
Kinnears on my fucking
Joe: I think it's fair to say that
would be a kind of hell to be in.
I think that's fair.
Emily: Oh,
Ben: not a great time!
Emily: No.
Ben: She This is not getting
five stars on Airbnb.
Emily: Yeah, like, I don't know if that
house is full of Roy Kinnear blood,
like, but it sounds like the whole
town is just Roy Kinnear populated,
so if she killed all of them...
I mean, I don't think, to be perfectly
frank I don't think that this movie wants
to be interpreted in any way, literally.
Ben: No, it's very full
tailed not reality.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: I feel like the movie would
say any attempt to try to...
Pin it down and get concrete
answers is missing the point,
Joe: yeah,
Ben: also what the fuck
happened in this movie?
Joe: There, there are some
elements that you can, again,
it's a lot of like symbolism.
It's a lot of metaphors, things like that.
But, basically the foliate head, the, the
green man, like that character being, you
Ben: Green man!
Joe: As the, like, home, naked
homeless man, you know, or presumably
homeless or of the forest, however,
Ben: I
Joe: supposed to perceive
Ben: yeah, because every time you see
him he's gotten more green man ish, like
Emily: Oh, he gets the, he actually
puts the leaves in his head.
Mm-Hmm.
Joe: Because they do the whole thing,
you know, when she's, you know, talking
to Landlord Rory Buccaneer, and all
that, where, you know, the implication
of like, oh, what happened to your
husband, like, kind of, where he was,
like, being a little too nosy and that.
They're setting up, like, you could
take from it that, because they also
hammer down the, like, you took a vow
and that vow, and part of that vow
would be the procreation, stuff like
that, through this, like, you know,
more, like, religious sense of, you
know, marriage, but when Her husband or,
you know, soon to be ex husband dies.
It almost seems like her leaving there
that the green man is in a way that kind
of mirrors how men treat women in this in
this film or how Rory Kinnears treat women
in this film is very you didn't mess up.
I did, or I did something wrong, but
I'm not going to admit that, and here's
how you can make what I did wrong right,
because the green man trying to break into
her house, it could be assumed, again, you
know, you already addressed some of those,
you know, content warning kind of issues,
but that he was coming in there to, force
her to Procreate in that idea of you took
a vow and this green man or the foliate
head is going to keep you to your vow.
And it's kind of, and you can reinforce
it if you use like the Adam and Eve kind
of interpretation of the apple, like,
continuing to reaffirm these like, vows
and this and that and kind of being like,
okay, well, now you can't procreate with
your husband, but now you have to do this.
This is how you make it right.
And then it going like that.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: I'm so glad, and it, what lets
the movie, you know, be still good
and not this horrific, toxic thing is
that like, it's all coming from Rory
Kinnear monster, like, Harper never
wavers whatsoever from her view of
her ex husband and the Rory Kinnears,
uh, Riley backs her up the whole time,
Emily: Mm-Hmm.
Ben: is that, and again, it captures
this heart that like, Like Harper knows
in her bones, like, no, this guy sucked.
He hit me, was emotionally
and physically abusive.
Fuck him.
I, I carry the guilt and emotions
that I carry, but I deserve to
just fucking heal and fuck him.
He, I owe him nothing.
He was the worst, which
is abs, which is correct.
He is the worst.
Their fucking husband
is the goddamn worst.
Joe: Well, that's one of
the best scenes there.
Yeah.
Sorry.
Continue.
Ben: well I'm just glad that like, no
matter how much the Roy Caneers just,
and like, it's gut wrenching watching
these Roy Caneers say these things, and
like, and like you say, really, truly
represent these various facets of society.
Clat, like, you know, like, property
owner, law enforcement threat of, like,
naked street crime, religion, like, all
just the various facets of society that
make living as a woman just sometimes
a goddamn fucking nightmare that
Joe: This is the first
I'm hearing of that.
Ben: Yeah.
Joe: I don't know, I think we're gonna
have to talk with some men about,
Ben: glad Alex Garland,
Joe: a hard time.
Ben: yeah, and here to tell us
about this, and here to tell us
about women, it's Alex Garland,
Emily: Oh God.
I mean,
Ben: which on the one hand is not
fair, it's a, he is an incredible
filmmaker and this is one bold and
one hell of a movie, but also, why the
pregnant boy can ears, what the fuck,
Emily: his body horror
Joe: Yeah, I,
Jeremy: we, we talked about like, there
is some amount of like, trying to make
sense literally of what happens in this
movie is a misstep, I think because
this movie is a vibe, it's a mood,
it's a, you know, it's, it's a thought
piece on, how fucking, as you know.
Okay.
I saw this the same day, a
couple hours after seeing Barbie.
And as wild as it is to say, these
two movies have two of the same
themes expressed very differently.
One is the literal impossibility
of being a woman in the world.
Uh, like that it's, it's literally like
there's nothing she can do to survive,
to be right, to get away from these
men, to just like do her own thing.
They're always there, they're everywhere.
And the second one her husband expresses,
like Ken, in the Barbie movie, that what
he wants, his sole desire, this thing
that he has to have from her, is her love.
And like, that is, like, literally
why she is being haunted, this like,
demanding of her love in the same
way that like, Ken is, is begging
in the most destructive possible
way to be loved in the Barbie movie.
This is like, the Barbie movie comes
to the conclusion at one point of
like, it seems like things might
have been better if she had just
said, Hey I'm not that into you.
This is not like how
things are going to work.
This is not a romantic relationship.
Whereas this movie posits, Oh no,
that's not an answer you can give.
Like, it doesn't matter if
Ben: in Barbie's,
Jeremy: If you say, I don't love you,
this isn't gonna work out, it, you will
continue to be stalked, not just by this
man, not just by his memory, but like,
the actual mythical embodiment of manhood.
Ben: realizing one of the ironies is that,
Barbie's relationship to Ken in that movie
was long term, low commitment boyfriend.
Joe: Yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Emily: And Ken was, I assume
Ken was not as, uh, uh Okay.
Okay.
Yeah
Jeremy: Suffice to say, my daughter
has been walking around saying, or
my six year old daughter has been
walking around saying, Mojo Dojo Casa
House for the last couple days, and
Ben: Oh yeah, if they don't
start selling that shit, they're
just leaving money on the table.
Emily: This the Barbie
phenomenon is so intriguing.
And so,
Ben: It's gonna make a barbillion dollars.
Joe: I saw this at one o'clock
on a Friday, and it was sold out.
There were people with
their Barbie dolls there.
In the theater, and dressed up, and
when I was leaving, I just saw more and
more people dressed up to see Barbie.
The concession stand had,
like, a wraparound line, and it
was worse when I was leaving.
Ben: I've never seen so many
cowboy hats in a movie theater.
Emily: since before the pandemic, like, I
haven't seen any activity at the movies.
That's that intense.
Like, I haven't heard of that.
Ben: America Ferrera's speech got Chris
Evans wield smjolnir levels of applause.
Joe: There was applause at
my theater, too, for that.
It's
Emily: I've just been waiting for
it to go streaming so I can have
my, my true Barbenheimer experience.
Jeremy: Just want Greta Gerwig to
direct a horror movie, that's all.
Emily: so I assume that Barbie
Ben: know, I am glad they made the movie,
though Really honors those of us who
grew up playing with Oppenheimer dolls.
Now,
Joe: true.
Emily: Yeah, I am become death.
Ben: with nuclear karate chop action!
Emily: I probably said the words, I am
become death, the destroyer of worlds
as a few of my various, like, my little
ponies as a child, but I digress.
I want to get back to Alex, Alex Garland
and his insistence of showing us, um,
Roy Kinnear giving birth to himself.
Jeremy: Dicks.
The movie's got dicks all over
Emily: dicks for days.
Ben: for Yeah, that was good.
Emily: I really, I was intrigued
by the interpretation of where
specifically the birth is happening.
Ben: I was intrigued by the dicks.
Emily: I mean, the dicks were also
intriguing, but like, I was more
intrigued by like, okay, so this
time it's like a vulva this time.
It's a belly button, that
Jeremy: some, got some Athena
junk happening up in there, people
coming out of people's heads.
Ben: I mean, we got hermaphroditus,
imagery, athena imagery.
Emily: I don't think that counts
as intersex representation though.
Ben: No, it
Jeremy: I, I do.
Ben: Definitely does
Joe: Yeah.
I thought it was all just
reference to Alien Covenant.
Emily: Oh, of course.
I just, I didn't even think of that.
So inspired.
Joe: that's okay, you're not alone.
Emily: That's a movie that
Alex Garland should direct.
Like, fucking Alex Garland should,
should get his hands on an Alien series.
I mean, I don't know.
Ben: I'm sorry, I'm just like,
the first two were good, like,
oh, do we still need alien movies?
Emily: We don't, but I would be okay with
another one if Alex Garland was involved.
Ben: I've seen Prometheus more
times than anybody should.
Emily: Yeah,
Joe: Twice?
Ben: And
Emily: has it's not an alien movie.
I'm just going to put that.
I'm just going to put that there.
I'm like, this is not an alien movie.
There's no alien in it.
There's like a, a weird thing that
kind of is alien esque, and fucking
Weyland is in it, and maybe Yutani is
Ben: we'll just call that the Ridley
Scott Robot Fastbender duology.
Emily: Yeah, Robot Fassbender.
Ben: Guest starring alien!
Emily: Yeah, I don't know if
there's ever an a a true alien.
Anyway, Roy Kinnear
giving birth to himself.
This, to me, was necessary,
and I'll tell you why.
Because that, to me, did feel like
the condensed version of every
older, like, family member, family
friend, acquaintance, being like,
so when are you going to have kids?
Which is something I have not done.
And it has been a sticking point
for me before and I was, I.
Ben: But that's not really
a thing in the movie.
Like, having kids, that's
not, like, that's not really
part of her character, though.
Emily: Well, it's part
of the microaggressions.
It's like a, it's like a body horror
version of the microaggressions
of being a married woman or
a widowed woman or a woman
Ben: but I feel like when you're
recently widowed is, like, the
one time where they're not asking
you when you're gonna have kids.
Emily: Yeah, but like, that is the,
it's not just that, but like the
reminder of that as a woman who has
had a hetero partner or, has had a
relationship that has been expected.
To bear children, you know,
you are seen as a vessel, like
you're basically, the oven.
And that is, uh, an interpretation,
like, I personally have had, I've waded
through a lot of new agey witchcraft
kind of, ideologies where women are,
profoundly sacred because they have the
ability to, to, they have a womb and the
sacredness of the womb, which I think also
Is part of what Sheila's about, right?
Is that the defining feature of this
character is the vagina and the womb.
And, and in this particular
depiction of Sheila in this.
And in men on that font, it was very
full of a forward, whereas the green
man, the foliate head was just a face.
Right.
And.
Jeremy: and she's the vagina.
Emily: Yeah, so you have, it was also,
um, refreshing to me that this idea of
the representation of men and women is pre
Christian and, it has been incorporated
into a lot of like, fundamentalist
Christian ideologies, right?
And from the Adam and Eve story
to, you know, a number of different
interpretations, but, there, sexism
happened before that sexism occurred
before that, whether or not the women,
whatever rights women had and, before
the common era there was still there were
still these reductive ideas going on.
And it's not, you know, as a
woman, there's more to someone
than their sex, and there's more to
someone than their, their genitals.
And so the
Ben: There's race and class!
No, no, that's not the message
to take away from this.
Emily: no, I mean, if it's, if we're
talking Barbie, it's definitely fashion
and fashion is the 1 thing that I will
still judge a person by, but all those
Ben: we just Appreciate that
there is a scene in the Barbie
movie where Ryan Gosling calls,
like, a trans actress beautiful.
And it's just part of the scene, it's
not like a punchline or a joke, it's just
him calling a beautiful woman beautiful.
Barbie is some of the best goddamn
trans rap I've seen in so long.
In addition to everything
else wonderful about Barbie.
Emily: Yes.
I, I'm gonna agree
Joe: part of men, 2022.
Jeremy: Barbie,
Emily: is Barbie.
Jeremy: part of men, 2022.
Ben: when we release this, we're
really going to have to, like, release
this as like, men, parentheses, and
a fair amount of Barbie talk, too.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: Men, slash, Barbie the movie.
Ben: We can cut that.
I'm sorry, I just have
Barbie all up in my brain.
Emily: It's, it's, it's
Joe: a very good movie.
Emily: it's, and it's a, I think it's a
lot more of an enjoyable movie to watch.
Jeremy: it's also like, it is surprisingly
like, relevant to the same themes as, as
men, just having watched them both in the
same day, I was like, huh, huh, All right.
Okay.
I'm developing a paper here
in this, in this TED talk.
I will,
Emily: Yeah.
And that's the thing about men
too, is, you know, we talk about
Alex Garland, but talking about the
movie men, I mean, men is, and sure.
I could be general about men
because it's punching up, I guess,
but I don't really believe that.
I don't know.
Ben: The important thing
is that you're punching.
Emily: I...
Like Harper, I go into life punching.
Um,
Jeremy: punched down.
That's how you beat.
That's how
Ben: Oh, you definitely want to
punch down, because then they
can't reach you and punch back.
That's the best direction to punch!
Emily: yeah I've taken self defense.
Jeremy: Yeah.
I mean, I,
Ben: Something, something,
Obi Wan High Ground.
Jeremy: so I think the interesting
thing when we're, when we're talking
about like the rest of the plot
elements, like I think feminism
is like, that's the big shining.
What this movie is about part of this.
Yeah.
All the rest of it, I think, class,
physical ability, race LGBTQ status, all
of that is used, I think, to show that
even though this woman has every other
possible advantage, even though she has
enough money to just go rent a house
in the country for two weeks, rent a
freaking castle in the country for two
Ben: Yeah, did that
Jeremy: although she's white, although
she's straight, She still is unable to
escape this, like, impending parade of,
of men just degrading her in every way
possible from, you know, just being,
from just being a weird old man to being
a, vicious child to a vicious priest to
every other, every other type there is.
Ben: I mean, between what I think
this movie does really well is showing
how she is never given space or time,
like, she's never given time and
privacy to have ownership over a space.
Even, even after she
throws her husband out.
He is there on the other side
of the glass looking in, denying
her control over that space.
She goes out to the country and
she's got a naked guy appearing and
denying her control over the space,
like, doesn't need to tell, like,
it does such a great job showing
just how these men just deny her.
any bit of safety and privacy.
Emily: and that's why I think
the movie is powerful in that, in
what it is, is because it shows.
It's, the things that happen in
Ben: Oh, it fucking shows!
Emily: it shows and the things
that happen in the movie are
Ben: Rory!
Emily: basically I don't think
there's an asshole birth.
But although an asshole is born
Ben: That would have been funny.
Emily: okay, yes, but
Ben: I mean, that would have been
funny, like, Ah, I'm the bartender!
I came out the butt!
Emily: But it's an essay about just all of
the bad experiences that this, the, like,
all the things wrong that are normalized
in the way that women are treated.
And, you can, you can
write an essay about that.
You can list evidence you could list.
Anecdotal stuff about that.
You can talk about your experience.
Personally, you can talk about experience
in terms of a census, but what this
movie really does well is isolate.
All of those things into this little
microcosm, and I think also the fact that
you have Roy being our just straight.
White, British dude, and playing all
of them, I think is a, a good choice.
I think it's a, it's a solid choice,
especially for something that is
set out to be surreal like this.
Ben: Oh yeah, I What I thought this
movie was, was I thought it was
like, a real Rory Kinnear had like,
sexually assaulted her at some point
in the past, and now she was seeing
everyone as Rory Kinnear, and it was
a much more explicitly psychological
horror, instead of this kind of...
Gay, like, fantasy, dream, horror.
Not that that
yeah.
Just what I'm, what my brain had
conjured hearing that basic premise.
Joe: I was just going to say, I hate
that the suicide squad beat them to
that with the polka dot man's mom,
Emily: Oh,
Ben: Oh my god.
Emily: everybody's the mom.
Maybe Harper makes that her
Ben: What do we, what do we think?
Cause I guess it is a reveal that her
friend Riley at the end is pregnant.
Joe: I was just going to bring that up.
So I'm glad you, uh, you brought that up.
Emily: I mean, I think part of it
is sort of a a separation of their
situations, just a different the fact
that they're in such different situations.
Riley, her friend, has
her back, certainly,
Ben: Riley is so fucking ride or die.
Emily: my god, and I can see why her,
Ben: Riley.
Emily: absolutely, but we don't
want to make our pregnant friend,
like, drive three hours out into
the countryside because we're being
assaulted by, like, a million Rory
Kinnears that are also the police.
Like, how do you explain that?
Jeremy: Yeah,
Emily: she does, as,
Jeremy: my biggest revelation with that
scene, well, a couple things, like, one of
the big ones for me was, like, I was like,
Oh, it makes sense that she said she was
going to come up and just watch her get
trashed because like, why would she have
said she's going to watch her get trashed?
Oh, she's pregnant.
All right, like, she can't get trashed.
Got it.
But also that like, the interesting thing
that that last scene provides is like,
she pulls up and the car is crashed.
There is a trail of blood and
slime leading into the house.
You know, this stuff In some
aspect did actually happen.
It's not just her imagining it.
Which, the fact that she's sitting
outside playing with a leaf at the
end I feel like, Definitely implies
that she did take an axe to the
version of her husband that showed up
and chop him up and burn or bury him
Ben: As well she should.
Emily: yeah.
Well, I feel like a lot of that,
I mean, and again the scene of the
never ending Rory's is, is painful in
Ben: Never ending ro o o ories.
Emily: you.
Jeremy: Yeah, they don't
seem to have a good time.
I'm gonna
Ben: No!
Joe: But now, is
Ben: didn't have a good time.
I didn't have a good time.
Emily: but that's the point is, is
that they are part of her grief.
Like, it is her, like,
Ben: Which stage is this?
Emily: Bargaining.
Ben: bargaining?
Okay, it's bargaining.
Joe: part of it too I'm wondering about
is because we've seen, you know, the
different Rory's over time and, you know,
all these different events that, that
she's supposed to feel guilty about,
or they put on her, you know, it's
on her for Why her husband left her.
It's on her that she's being stopped
and all these things and it's on and
she's got to be the one to fix it.
Emily: Yeah,
Joe: is it, and she directly caused, like,
she hasn't actually directly caused the
pain, but because they, the Rory took its
arm out in a way that, cut it like that.
You know, that's all also her
Ben: is horrifying.
Joe: Flagged by it, yeah, and like,
is the pregnancy aspect there supposed
to be that, like, the the green
man or the foliage head or anything
like that, like, in a way being
like, you aren't procreating, you,
you're denying procreating, you're
denying doing your part and this
is the kind of pain you're causing.
Because it's that like, reflecting
and gaslighting thing that has been
happening to her through the whole movie.
Could it potentially be like a
reflection of maybe something like that?
Because I'm trying to make
that, make some sort of symbolic
sense for why it's happening.
Emily: think, I think
that's part of it for sure.
I think, the nice thing about that
sequence is that there's a lot of
things that, like, it's, the bottom
line is that it's horrifying and that
it is, like, impossibly horrifying and
unending and so, and that in and of
itself represents the conundrum that
Harper finds herself in is that she's,
you know, no matter how many okay.
Men she tries to escape,
circumstance will birth another one.
You know, whether they be invading
her home or invading her personal her
personal boundaries, her body, whatever.
Joe: Her mojo dojo casa house?
Emily: Yeah, her mojo dojo casa house,
which, do we know if those aren't, if
her house is not, her cottage is not the
mojo dojo cottage, whatever casa house?
Ben: is no mojo in that Dojo Casa house.
Emily: Well, there's bad
Ben: I did not see...
More references, but
you haven't seen it yet.
Emily: mojo.
Yeah, I'm like the only person who
hasn't seen the Barbie movie yet.
Ben: Go watch it, we'll wait two hours
and then we'll resume the podcast.
Emily: like a two parter here.
Ben: Yes.
Emily: I think it's
still sold out, probably.
I don't know.
Ben: It was hard, like, I had to go,
like, out of my way, like, hunt down
tickets for, to see it on Saturday.
Emily: I just don't
want to go to a theater.
I just don't want to go
to a theater, you guys.
Ben: went to one of those tiny
theaters that has, like, two screens.
This theater, like, is so small, like,
the last time I went to see it, I went
to that particular theater, it was to see
Dragon Ball Super Super Hero, where I was
literally the only person in the theater.
It was literally a private
screening for me, for Dragon Ball.
This, there were people, it was
standing room only in the theater.
I got out, it was a line out
the door of people dressed
in pink for the next showing.
Emily: Incredible.
I mean,
Ben: This movie just...
Emily: vote.
Ben: Oh, man.
Yeah, like that, where, I'm gonna
wear the same pink outfit for voting.
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: Barbie says vote.
Emily: Barbie does say vote.
Ben: Barbie says vote a particular way.
You know the way.
Emily: I,
Joe: Sounds so threatening.
Emily: I just appreciate
Barbie through all of them.
Yeah.
Yes.
The, there was a, some video,
someone's like response video.
Someone was saying like, you know,
Barbie is, is propaganda made to
brainwash women to hate men and the,
Ben: Men have been doing a great
job of that all on their own for
Emily: yeah, that was, that was
Ben: of years.
Emily: the joke of the video where the
dude's like, we've been doing that.
We don't need a movie for that,
especially a movie like this.
Ben: I feel like, you know what it
is, if you're dating a new guy, and
you're unsure about his politics, which
is how cool he really is, show him
this movie, not to see his reaction
to the total thing, but how does he
feel about Jeffrey in Acts 1 and 2.
Emily: yeah, I was a bit
Ben: pick if he's pi if he's picking up
on what's fucking wrong with Geoffrey
in Acts 1 and 2, he's a keeper.
Emily: Yes, I mean, that dude, like,
it's really funny how a dude that is
that toxic, before the whole, like,
fucking running people over with cars
and things like, a dude that is that
toxic can also be that bumbling, and
also a dude who is that bumbling is also
that menacing, like, I think that's one
thing that Roy Kinnear really deserves,
um, accolades for is that he makes
this character who's just like, is as.
Cute little British man still, from
the get go, pretty menacing you're just
waiting for that shit, and that's not
just because, like, I saw Our Flag Means
Death before this and the character of
Admiral Badminton is delightful compared
to this guy, um, like, even though
Admiral Badminton and his twin brother or
whatever are both shitheads I was hoping
that Harper would, like, set him up to
be stabbed on his own sword or whatever.
Kind of, kind of did.
She kind of did.
it was not so serendipitous as, uh, Steve
Bonnet's dispatch of Admiral Badman.
But yeah, like, the character is so
well, like, he gets to this point
where with the Vicar and with...
uh, the landlord, both those
characters that you're like,
is it is there hope here?
And there isn't.
Spoilers, there's, there isn't.
It was all badmintons,
badmintons all the way down.
Jeremy: No good mittens.
I think that I guess brings us
to the question of guys, would we
recommend people watch this movie?
Ben: Yes, keep in mind the intense
trigger war like, yes, go into it
knowing you're gonna see some shit.
Emily: Yeah, there are definitely
stipulations, like there are
things that you would there were
conditions, there are conditions
that would need to be met before I,
I would willingly recommend this in
Ben: I mean, like, y you
Emily: it too.
Ben: gotta sit down and ask
yourself, like, are you in the
mood for an Alex Garland movie?
And that's a particular mood.
Is this a good movie?
Yes.
If I was hanging out with a friend and
they were like, Hey, you wanna see men?
I'd be like, fuck no.
Joe: But also, you know, listeners
and everyone, you should always
recommend things to people responsibly.
Emily: Yeah, that's
Joe: recommends something to you,
just like, it's like, oh, you know
what movie you should watch or show
this, and there's no follow up, ask.
Emily: Yeah.
Joe: Always ask.
Jeremy: Why do you think
I should watch this?
Emily: Yeah.
Yeah.
Jeremy: What, what about me?
Because if you don't at the time,
and they recommend men to you, you're
going to have to go back to them
afterwards and say, what about me made
you think I should watch this movie?
What was it?
about me that you thought, you
know what they need to watch?
Emily: I mean, I've always.
Jeremy: birth to Rory Kinnear
giving birth to Rory Kinnear.
That's what they need to see.
Ben: I'm just imagining being like,
Man, I love the idea of people
combined with leaves and leaf people.
I will watch any movie at all
that involves leaf people,
no matter what it's about.
Emily: magic everywhere.
Ben: I don't know how many
movies that describes.
I can't think of any other Leaf
people other than this movie, but
Emily: I think there are some,
I mean, like, Labyrinth pretty
sure has a leaf, a leaf person.
Jeremy: of, of other movies, uh,
what would we recommend to people?
Uh, based on this film.
I
Ben: Barbie!
Emily: And Barbie, as far as I know,
doesn't have the Neverending Rory.
So,
Jeremy: think that's a
Emily: know about Barbie.
Yeah.
Joe: This also made me think,
two other movies that came
to mind were, uh, The Witch.
Emily: Mm
Joe: I think there's a
lot of parallels there.
I think, there's crossover appeal there.
And I had mentioned earlier before
we started recording, um, I watched
Eraserhead not that long ago.
I've seen it before, but I do
think Eraserhead, while it's
about slightly different things,
there is a lot of overlap in it.
Thank you for watching!
And, uh, I, I, I think, uh, people
who like that kind of, like,
surrealist take on these sort
of topics might be interested.
Jeremy: Yeah, uh,
Emily: to myself.
Ben: I was pointing at Emily.
Jeremy: Ben, what, you said Barbie?
Is there anything else you recommend?
Or legit, just Barbie's the way to go?
Ben: Shit Deep Space Nine, just because
I'm watching that at the moment.
Jeremy: Makes sense.
Ben: I don't know, fuckin Joe, we did
Barbie, Joe got the Vivix, like, I
don't fuckin know, I'm at Twin Peaks,
it's got woods, want more woods?
Twin Peaks.
Emily: there are characters,
there are women characters with
agency in that or in that series.
Ben: Are there?
That's good, I never got past
the pilot if I'm being honest.
Emily: I mean, they are complex,
but also, you know, they have more
agency than any characters have.
Any characters Bottom, bottom
line have in eraser head.
So, uh, in
Ben: Yeah,
Emily: of,
Ben: unfortunately trying to find
movies with women with agency is
an unfortunately limiting criteria.
Emily: it's almost like they're trying
to say something with this movie about
how like, all these men are shitty, whoa.
Um, I would recommend Ex Machina myself.
I think Ex Machina has some,
some good, especially if you're
into Alex Garland, but you don't,
I mean, Annihilation is cool.
It's very meandering.
And it's like, look at this cool shit.
Jeremy: Does feature a dance battle
between rival Natalie Portmans.
Emily: I mean, it's just very slow.
It's a very Alex Garland dance
battle, which is very slow.
It's very interpretive,
Ben: I will say, I do think...
Yeah, I, just on a pure ranking, I
would say I probably enjoy Annihilation
and Ex Machina more than I did this.
Emily: yeah, I mean, Ex Machina
definitely has a lot of elements going on.
It's a little bit, yeah.
Less of a vignette and more of, like,
a complex character and, like, high
concept science fiction story, which,
as it is a movie about a machine
person named Ava I'm already into it.
Ben: I mean, like, I do think it
was pretty bold exploring the sci
fi concept of imagining a world
if Oscar Isaac had a long beard.
Emily: And that jumpsuit.
Jeremy: I feel like there's a
troubling trend with Alex Garland's
directorial movies, which is, there's
been less Oscar Isaac in every one
Ben: It is concerning.
Jeremy: Because Ex Machina was
his first, tons of Oscar Isaac.
Annihilation, a little bit of Oscar Isaac.
Men, no Oscar Isaac.
Emily: I don't think that Oscar Isaac
deserves to be represented in men.
Ben: Also, I think it, the only role he,
I guess you could have given him is...
If not, Rory Kinnear, which,
that's a different movie if
it's just a town full of Oscar
Emily: Yeah, that's a different,
Jeremy: It's like, no,
actually, I'm kind of into this.
Um,
Joe: Yeah.
Emily: I know, I'm
Ben: that, that's a very different vibe.
Emily: If, I think that, I think
that Alex Garland should make a short
that's like a version of men, but
that's like where Harper goes next.
Where after she's like, she's healed
from this trauma, then she like, goes
to the next village over, and it's all
Oscar Isaac there, and they're all really
polite, and like, you barely see it, until
like, she's like, hey and like, she orders
Grubhub or whatever, and the Oscar Isaac
comes out, and he does this little disco
dance with the Deep V jumpsuit, that would
be, that would be a redemption arc of men.
Jeremy: yeah, it's just called,
it's just a sequel, it's just called
Man, and it's about Oscar Isaac.
Yeah, I would say, um, you know,
we've talked about the other
two movies that Alex Garland has
directed, both of those are great,
you should absolutely check them out.
We've also talked about
one of my favorites is one
that he wrote is Sunshine.
We haven't actually done
that on the podcast yet, but
it's coming at some point.
And, uh, you know, I think in the
near future, we'll probably be
talking about 28 Days Later, which
is another Alex Garland penned film.
And that is absolutely
one worth checking out.
It's it's about, it's, it's The
Walking Dead, 10 years before
The Walking Dead, and better.
So, oops.
Emily: It introduced a generation
to Godspeed to Black Emperor,
which I think is a bold move and
a one for which I feel gratitude
Jeremy: it's about
Oppenheimer fighting zombies.
Joe: Excellent man.
Emily: Very Alex Garland band too.
Jeremy: yeah,
Emily: Three songs that are
all like half an hour long.
Jeremy: yeah, well this one, this movie
has like one song in it, but by different
artists, like, a couple different times.
Yeah, a love song occurs in this movie.
Think twice because there's the Leslie
Duncan version and then later we
get the Elton John version as well
Emily: Don't forget the, ah,
Jeremy: Yeah
Emily: That's my favorite
song in the movie.
Jeremy: fantastic Well, that said I
think that about wraps us up Joe do
you want to let people know where
they can find out more about you and
what you've got going on in the World
Joe: Sure, they can find
me on I guess X now?
Um,
Ben: Nope.
Joe: you
Jeremy: calling it
Ben: I'll call it X the same
day I call it the Cuomo Bridge.
Fucking never.
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: It's Twitter!
It that bridge is the tap and Z!
Joe: I
Emily: Park,
Joe: I do have to at least acknowledge
that X rebranding did work for Mega Man.
Emily: but that was, there
were different consoles
Joe: No, I,
Ben: Unfortunately, I think that means
that there's yet another trademark
for X that Elon Musk does not own.
Emily: Yeah,
Joe: But, uh, I've, I've, uh,
Ben: That was all my favorite, was
him putting all of these things like
X is gonna be, and and then like
everyone being like, You don't own the
trademark for X in any of these things.
Emily: yeah.
Talk about men.
That's another hellscape.
Ben: Oh my god.
Again, talk about just like,
shitty men denying any of us space.
Like, taking control over
space that we exist in.
Joe: Well, you can find me in that space
that we've lost control over, that's
run by a billionaire psycho at you know,
Joe Corallo, so J O E C O R A L L O I
am also that on Blue Sky I don't know
how many people are on there at this
point, but, I have it, so, and then,
uh, or on Instagram, at CoralloJoe,
Emily: Are you on the blue sky?
You are on the blue sky.
Joe: yes.
I haven't been, like, actively
using it yet, but I have a.
Jeremy: Emily, what about you?
Emily: Well, I'm also on Blue sky,
I mega moth of Blue sky and Mega
Moth on Twitter, which is what I'm
gonna call it un until it's dead.
And I have website mega mo.net.
It has most of the links to all
my little corners of the internet.
Tumblr Mega Moth and mega Malon Patreon.
Come on by.
I have a $1 tier if you wanna
see my art ' cause I do that
Jeremy: And, uh, Ben, what about you?
Ben: Uh, you can find me at Ben
at Twitter at ben the con at, uh,
blue Sky at Ben Conn writes ben
conn comics.com and pre-order.
My upcoming, uh, novel l Campbell
wins their weekend coming out
from Scholastic October 17th.
Emily: noise.
Jeremy: And I am, uh, still
on Twitter at jrome58.
I am on my website, jeremywhitley.
com.
I am on Blue Sky at jeremywhitley.
I am on tumblr, jeremywhitley.
tumblr.
com.
And I am on, uh, Instagram at jrome58.
So it's, it's a real, real
confusing lot of things.
so Dog Night you guys can get.
Everybody knows about that.
It's been out for a while now.
The next big thing that I do have
coming out and has been announced
in that Titan is putting out my
graphic novel with Megan Wong.
It's my first my first
grownup adult graphic novel.
There's, uh, lots of sex and violence.
I described it as an Arthurian Noir,
a queer Arthurian noir, and, uh,
it's called The Cold Ever After.
It is coming out from Titan in February.
Uh, so you can order it online
Ben: yeah.
Jeremy: It's gonna be fun.
As for the podcast, you can find
us on Patreon at Progressively
Horrified our website at
progressively horrified Transistor fm.
And on Twitter, ProgHorrorPod,
where we'd love to hear from you.
And speaking of loving to hear from
you, we would love it if you'd rate
and review our podcast, wherever
you're listening to it, right now.
Helps us find new listeners
when you give us five stars.
Thanks again to Joe for joining us.
It's been a hoot, sir.
Joe: Thanks for having me.
That's great.
Ben: Yeah.
Oh my God.
Thank you so much for being here, Joe.
Joe: Yeah!
Emily: Yeah.
Thank you.
Jeremy: Just talking about men,
Emily: talk about Ben, baby.
Jeremy: All right.
And until next time, stay horrified.