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Hosted by Jared Correia, Legal Late Night is a weekly, pop culture-infused romp through the latest & greatest business management ideas and technology tips for lawyers, featuring engaging guests, and constructed in the format of an old school television variety show.
Jared Correia (00:00):
Hello everybody. We've got a show that promises to be at least mildly interesting for your listening and watching enjoyment. I'm your host, Jared Correia. I'm the CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting. For the monologue, we're talking about some law firm spy games. So grab your mystery ink pen and let's see what we can uncover together. In the interview, we're chatting up Andrea Cannavina, also known as a law firm therapist. In the counter program, we're bringing back our regional speech segment. This time it's shit Long Islanders say. Now, to paraphrase Rockwell, somebody's watching me also literally.
(00:44):
Recently, Morgan & Morgan founder, John Morgan, appeared on the Iced Coffee Hour podcast, which seems like a long time to be drinking an iced coffee in what I can only describe as a pretty unhinged appearance. In a social pull clip, Morgan talks about how it was difficult to get folks to return to the office post-pandemic. No shit. So his compromise was to let them work from home, but with cameras recording them as well as keystroke monitoring taking place. You've got to watch this clip because I cannot do it justice. But he says, and I quote, "You can work from home, but guess what? We're going to put a camera up your ass." Okay, so which is it? Am I working or getting a prostate exam or both? But don't worry, it'll only be a pixelated image so they can't see you at Morgan & Morgan headquarters when you're flipping them off.
(01:47):
Morgan's thesis is that, again quoting, "It's not that they don't want to work from home, it's that they don't want to work. Perhaps unsurprisingly, 23 people quit the firm the first week this policy was enacted and the remainder are probably lining up their next jobs, quietly quitting as we speak." Oh man, where to begin? As you will have figured out, John Morgan is apparently another one of the army of boomers you know them, Trump and his ilk, who are looking to destroy the world while in their own death throws. I wish these people would stop being pieces of shit, but that wish in a bag of Doritos will leave me with solely the bag of Doritos. But it's not just these elderly shit heels who appear to have an active hatred for the views of anyone younger than them. John Morgan is also one of these billionaires who are normalizing the modern surveillance state with this kind of bullshit.
(02:43):
As it turns out, no one actually wants to be watched constantly, monitored by ring cameras, flock cameras, and having influencers take pictures and videos of them on their fucking phones, tracked by Palantir. Come on. That's why people are rightfully destroying flock cameras and quitting Morgan & Morgan. No doubt trying to fuck with their monitoring systems if they stay.
(03:10):
This is just another stripe of fascist bullshit and let me save you some time. If you're a fascist, you're an asshole. If you're a boomer Trump supporter and you're into this shit, you are now the Nazis that your parents fought. Congratulations. Between the deranged wealth hoarding and insistence on constant monitoring, the billionaire class clearly wants everybody to shut the fuck up and do what they're told, which is precisely why you can't do that. John Morgan can eat a dick and so can Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos and all these other fucks. Okay. I think you know where I stand on that. But perhaps my favorite part of the clip is when Morgan ends with, "We have this productivity score that's incredible. First of all, this sounds exactly like something Trump would say, while actively destroying a diaper that Natalie Harp will have to change later.
(04:05):
We did this thing no one else could ever do and it's unbelievable formulation is apparently what boomer fuck was want you to believe is happening when they figure out how to shut down an iPad. I'd be delighted to look into what this productivity score entails. I wonder whether part of it includes how often your pixelated blob is in frame. Not that I'm recommending that anyone should work for a shit company like Morgan & Morgan, but if I did, I'd be taking a dump with my laptop, hanging dong in front of the camera. I suspect the desire to monitor me would wane relatively quickly. But I think that as anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows, people want to work from home because it's more relaxing and less shitty than working in an office. No knowledge worker wants to work in an office space because it kind of blows.
(05:00):
That's what people found out during the pandemic. That's why they don't want to go back. But this idea that people who want to work from home don't really want to work is complete bullshit. John Morgan and these other old folks who manage law firms want to work from the office because that's what they've always done. So the expectation is that everyone else should want to do the same. But the fact of the matter is that people who work from home aren't slackers. They want a flexible schedule so they can be there for their kids and schedule household repairs with ease and maybe not have to buy fucking lunch every day among other things. And it's pretty easy to figure out why that's the case because no one who works from home is wasting insane amounts of time commuting or being pestered about bullshit by their coworkers.
(05:45):
And folks who work from home work more hours because it's pretty easy to just pick up a laptop at odd hours and finish projects. When you work from home, you're less worried in the right work environment, so not Morgan & Morgan, about logging hours and more focused on finishing projects and getting things done. In fact, remote workers do statistically work more hours on average than in-office workers, including logging more unpaid overtime. So if John Morgan actually wanted more productivity in his firm, he'd pull his head out of his ass and hire more remote workers. But these death cult boomers aren't interested in facts. They just want to talk their shit and sound hard on goofy ass business podcasts. If you want a real tree, check out the Reddit threads on this interview where John Morgan is getting absolutely flamed. I guess there's still some good left in the world.
(06:43):
We've still got our unpixelated cameras trained on our guests' faces with their permission, not up their asses. And with that spirit in mind, we're going to talk with Andrea Cannavina, the legal therapist. And clearly this is an arena where therapy is much needed. Stay tuned.
(07:07):
Well, I've effectively run out of things to say, which is awkward because this is a podcast, so I'm just going to eat this banana peel I found in the trash. No, no, I won't do that. That one episode of Empty Nest when I was a kid fully traumatized me against doing that. I'd rather not get botulism. Thank you very much. But before this goes fully off the rails, I think we should probably bring in our guest and we've got a great guest for you today. It is the one and only Andrea Cannavina, the law firm therapist, Circle R, herself. Andrea, how was that? Was that a pretty good intro?
Andrea Cannavina (07:45):
That was a great intro. I'm actually a little embarrassed by it, so I guess it really worked.
Jared Correia (07:51):
Okay. We've known each other for a little while. Let's start here. Can you take me back to the Healtheon days of 2007? There weren't any cloud-based tools really? Nope. No case management software?
Andrea Cannavina (08:09):
No.
Jared Correia (08:10):
Were those the glory days? The iPhone
Andrea Cannavina (08:12):
Had just
Jared Correia (08:13):
Launched. Right. The iPhone had just launched.
Andrea Cannavina (08:16):
2007 is the year the iPhone launched, and then they said that that's when people had started having mobile devices. I'm still out there reminding everybody I've been mobile since 2002 with a Palm device.
Jared Correia (08:29):
Palm Pilot? You have the Blackberry too or no?
Andrea Cannavina (08:32):
No Blackberry. Crackberry?
Jared Correia (08:35):
I mean, we do a little bit of reminiscing on this podcast from time to time, as you may know. Remember tapping away? I remember people just tapping away on the Blackberry. That thing was attached to your hip like a gunslinger. Those were wild days.
Andrea Cannavina (08:50):
Oh my goodness. I remember when, since being a Palm person, one of the first times I think I went to Legal Week, Legal New York, Legal Tech New York, somebody set up a meeting with me and the dude just kept checking his. He was a CEO of some service. He just kept checking it. And I finally politely asked, "Oh, are you expecting something?" And he quizzically looked at me and said, "No." And then check mark in my head the difference between pull and push technology. And once I understood that difference, I've guarded myself and my clients from as much of the push as technology can put on you.
Jared Correia (09:28):
Okay. Can you tell people what that means who may not be familiar with that terminology?
Andrea Cannavina (09:34):
Before Blackberry's, you had to ask to receive the data from whatever server and whatever device you were connecting from. So you had to authenticate through a device, and I say device because it could have been a desktop back then pretty much. A laptop,
Jared Correia (09:53):
They
Andrea Cannavina (09:54):
Were kind of coming out. But the mobile was really just a thing where you had cell phones and cell phones could do texts, but they were limited. And then they basically added email if you put your credentials in and then the mobile device also became email capable. That's technically when they started calling it a smartphone.
Jared Correia (10:16):
Those
Andrea Cannavina (10:17):
Phones also had apps, also had the ability to connect to the internet, had maps and weather and the things that made them so successful for the years that they were. The company itself, I think got bought out and WebOS now is what runs everybody's smart TV. So it's not like the actual operating system for the palm went anywhere. It's just the hardware did. And the way that
Jared Correia (10:42):
The
Andrea Cannavina (10:43):
IPhone launched and everybody knows that now they think that 2007 was the first time anybody had a touch. In 07, they weren't touch screens, by the way, iPhones either and
Jared Correia (10:52):
Palm
Andrea Cannavina (10:52):
Weren't. So it was kind of funny because you could watch TV, you could watch videos, you could be on YouTube long before there was an iPhone, but just the perception shift for those of us who were there before versus after. And that's one of the things that I love talking about because I call myself the analog assistant and I try to remember what it was like before because I'm one of the only, call it a road warrior. The
Jared Correia (11:13):
Before times. Yes.
Andrea Cannavina (11:15):
And I understand sometimes that analog is not necessarily less. There's reasons for analog that makes sense as a human being versus a technology. So I love those. Those are my disconnects. I love to point out to people.
Jared Correia (11:30):
It's funny because I mean there are a lot of digital natives now who don't know that there was a time prior.
Andrea Cannavina (11:38):
Before.
Jared Correia (11:39):
They know, but they don't necessarily have experience with it. They
Andrea Cannavina (11:42):
Can't conceptualize it.
Jared Correia (11:44):
I remember I didn't have a cell phone until I was probably my late 20s and I tried to avoid it for a really long time.
Andrea Cannavina (11:54):
I have a question.
Jared Correia (11:55):
Yes.
Andrea Cannavina (11:56):
When did you get a smartphone?
Jared Correia (12:00):
A year and a half ago, I think. I hate the smartphone. It's awful. Oh, I will tell you, I went to the grocery store with my daughter a couple weeks ago and I forgot my phone at home and she was legitimately freaked out. She's like, "What if something happens?" I'm like, "I don't know. We'll figure it out." She's like, "Unacceptable."
Andrea Cannavina (12:25):
One year I put together what I call digital disconnect day, international digital disconnect day. I tried to get it on Chase's calendar and everything, and it was literally a day where you pledged to disconnect for the day. I think because I was already five years in before iPhones even came out, I understood when you weren't connected, it was like an addiction. I used to be a cigarette smoker too. I understood
(12:49):
That angst that comes when you need to do something and you can't, which is why when I first got my mobile devices, you had to charge them overnight and I left it in my office, which was downstairs. So I never slept with a device next to my head until my kids were almost out of the house. Otherwise, I knew they were there, everything was safe, so I didn't need to do that. But these kinds of things shift too, how you use the devices, even myself as somebody trying not to have it next to my head. Sometimes I put it in airplane mode. I do always have it on quiet from 11:00 to 6:00 AM.
Jared Correia (13:25):
Oh, that's good. So
Andrea Cannavina (13:26):
If
Jared Correia (13:26):
It vibrates that
(13:28):
Much - The only reason I have a smartphone is because of my kids, because they want to be able to reach me as soon as they turn 18, that shit's going back to the store. Can we talk about. Okay, so now as all the younger generation has tuned out of this podcast, all the old tests remain. Okay, 2007 to now, that's almost a 20-year period, and legal tech has now become a thing. Clio was valued at a billion dollars, first legal tech company to do that. Now you got fucking Harvey and AI, which may actually be vaporware ultimately. And it's like $11 billion valuation, private equity's all up in the legal tech space now. What is happening? This was a relatively -
Andrea Cannavina (14:22):
I've never been able to connect the investment other than in the practical day-to-day type of tech until it's well tested, and by well-tested, I mean it's gone through the courts.
Jared Correia (14:36):
So
Andrea Cannavina (14:37):
Many times you have to wait before somebody does something wrong and then they get highlighted and laughed at and legal, we're all like that kind of stuff. We're all catty or whatever. But it's true, but lawyers, and that's why they say, "Well, lawyers are really tech adverse." I'm like, "No, they're reputation hurting tech adverse. And if you can't prove that there's nothing for them that they can get..." I used to have conversations and even sometimes now with obviously salespeople and/or marketing or higher end in the sphere of corporations that don't understand the actual practicality of maintaining confidentiality, like you
Jared Correia (15:16):
Actually
Andrea Cannavina (15:17):
Have to do it. It's just more of a concept for them. And then of course there's always that sneaky little duty not to inadvertently disclose that little cousin nobody ever talks about. So I always like that one.
Jared Correia (15:29):
I mean, I feel like if you're a private equity investor, you're like, "Fuck all that noise.That's not my problem." You're
Andrea Cannavina (15:34):
A private equity investor. You want the data that's on those servers, period, end of story. There's no other reason for them to want anything other than the data that's on those servers. Oh, we won't use it. We won't disclose it or we won't disclose it to any third parties, but certainly don't tell me that they're not using it.
Jared Correia (15:52):
Why else
Andrea Cannavina (15:53):
Would they pay that much money for it?
Jared Correia (15:54):
I feel like that's a general tech problem. I don't trust any of these technology companies. Google does crazy shit with your data that they're not talking about. Facebook. What do I call Google and
Andrea Cannavina (16:06):
Have I always called Google?
Jared Correia (16:07):
What do you call Google? Do you have a good name for Google?
Andrea Cannavina (16:11):
I've called it the Borg since day one.
Jared Correia (16:16):
I used to get laughed
Andrea Cannavina (16:18):
At on Solo Says. They used to
Jared Correia (16:19):
Tell me I was
Andrea Cannavina (16:21):
Paranoid. I used to get called paranoid. Paranoid.
Jared Correia (16:24):
Is that from a movie? What does that mean? I know what a borg is, but. That's
Andrea Cannavina (16:28):
From Star Trek.
Jared Correia (16:29):
I don't watch Star Trek.That's the
Andrea Cannavina (16:30):
Thing, it's half humanoid, half not, and it was coming after everybody, the big black square. You don't know that one? Isn't that or
Jared Correia (16:35):
Is that
Andrea Cannavina (16:35):
A Star Trek?
Jared Correia (16:37):
I've never seen a single episode of Star Trek in my life. I hate to say
Andrea Cannavina (16:42):
It. Okay. So the Borg,
Jared Correia (16:43):
As far
Andrea Cannavina (16:44):
As I understood it, is this big black cube that's electric and it's of one mind. It's a hive mind, and I guess it's coming after humanity over there. But anyway, it just wants to absorb everything.
Jared Correia (16:53):
It's Google. In other words. That
Andrea Cannavina (16:54):
Google. So when I talk to lawyers about privacy on Google, they're like, "No, no, no. I pay for it." I said, "Did you read the entire terms of service?" And they get a little quiet. They're like, "Well, I skimmed it, or I did this, or so-and-so
Jared Correia (17:06):
Read it." No worries. Yeah.
Andrea Cannavina (17:08):
I said, "I had to read it once. First of all, they change it all the time and you got no notice. Second of all, it says that they won't serve you ads if you pay. It does not say they're still not scanning."
Jared Correia (17:21):
Oh, sure. And I think there's some stuff that these technology companies do that they're never going to tell anybody about. I think that's pretty clear. Okay. That they got away with? Yeah. And are currently getting away with and will continue to get away with. So if I'm an attorney, how do I not go full X-Files on this? How can I choose tools that are reasonably confidential and that suit my use case? Because we haven't talked about this, but the other thing is a lot of these tech companies, they're not founded by actual lawyers. That's a rare thing. Yeah.
Andrea Cannavina (17:57):
Which is why it goes back to the day when I was like, I think I was speaking in. Was it Philadelphia? I'm pretty sure it was. Maybe it wasn't Atlanta. I think it was Philadelphia. Two guys in suits, suited up like boiler room dudes were in front of some website company that I know owned the content and the template, and the lawyer just paid a great deal of money for a templated something with a URL that cost them 20 bucks a year and nothing else was going into it. And the two guys had absolutely no clue. I'm like, "Well, who owns the data?" They're like, "What data?" I'm like, "Well, who owns the words? What words?" I'm like, "Are either of you a lawyer?" No, no. I was like, "How long have you been with the company?" I immediately. It shifted into -
Jared Correia (18:40):
Did they have dark sunglasses on? What's
Andrea Cannavina (18:41):
Going on?
Jared Correia (18:43):
Was it like a men in black situation?
Andrea Cannavina (18:46):
I don't want to say men in black. I want to say more like boiler room. These two guys just wanted to get the old people on the phone call, and once they got their credit card, they were out.
Jared Correia (18:54):
Oh, sure.
Andrea Cannavina (18:54):
Yeah. They had no investment in whether or not what they were saying was accurate because they had no knowledge of if it was. They were just spewing words
Jared Correia (19:02):
Kind of thing.
Andrea Cannavina (19:04):
So you got to be careful out there. So I've had tech go from being something that you request to something that's always on. And then I had realizing the people that are "selling the tech" are not necessarily knowledgeable about what law firms do, how they do it. And then we
Jared Correia (19:21):
Evolved
Andrea Cannavina (19:21):
Past the how do you keep it secure on a server in your office that you electronically connect to through an ethernet would be how. If I go to the two law firms that I used to physically work at at Long Island, both have IT departments with cold rooms with servers. So there are still terrestrial options for law firms, of course. But most people who go to the cloud and even those firms tend to use at least the Microsoft products. And when
Jared Correia (19:49):
I
Andrea Cannavina (19:49):
Say the products, they take it up to at least the business licensing, which means that Microsoft has, if I recall correctly, I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but as I recall it, it is, they have the ability to scan the metadata and to make sure that the electronic file itself is not malicious and the code, but they do not scan the content. So it's not like they're actually scanning the keystrokes, which is literally what Google was built to do. And that's how I know it's always doing it. You can't turn off the main function of a tech by adding things to it.
Jared Correia (20:23):
It's
Andrea Cannavina (20:23):
Always going to do it at this.
Jared Correia (20:26):
And now you've seen a little bit of that with the - I
Andrea Cannavina (20:27):
Understand it. And the other tech, and I don't recommend tech anymore, I'm a process person, and I have been for a long time, but the other tech that I know that is safe, and this is because Carolyn Elephant did the whole terms of service, did a whole big thing on it, and that's box.net, and you have to take it up to the professional. It's always got to be at the professional licensing. And this is for anybody. If you have a Dropbox, if you have anything and you're not at the professional licensing, they're scanning your content. You are the product. You need to have that
Jared Correia (20:59):
Licensing. If you're not paying to a certain level, you're the product. Absolutely.
Andrea Cannavina (21:04):
Especially anything that's free.
Jared Correia (21:07):
Yes. Okay. So Microsoft Box, I know you're not recommending software, but I think to underscore your point, it's like read with understanding service level agreements about how your data is treated because no one's going to explain it to you the way they should. Now
Andrea Cannavina (21:31):
An ethical obligation to be, what is it? Technology competent. I'm not asking you to be technology competent. I'm asking you to be a lawyer. Read it. It's a contract. It's really long. It's gruesome. I know. I've read them, but at least I can say that. I can honestly say I read the Google terms of service because once they started charging for email, I'm like, "What is going on here? You can't turn that off." And I'm telling you, just like Carolyn did the entire box and Ben Shore did the entire Microsoft. That's how I understand. I think that's
Jared Correia (22:03):
The thing too. If you're aware of people in the community, like Carolyn and Ben are good for this stuff, they'll do a lot of the legwork for you and you just have to confirm. But then I think the thing is you have to stay on top of it as well.
Andrea Cannavina (22:17):
Well, true. You have to be competent enough, like you said, to know where your data resides and who has access to it. And this
Jared Correia (22:25):
Isn't
Andrea Cannavina (22:26):
Like anything else. It's like a big huge filing cabinet in Webspace and who has the ability to leaf through it or not. It's not hard to conceptualize. It's just people
(22:36):
Don't want to read the terms and they want to pretend that the tech is confusing. This isn't confusing tech talk. Go to the terms that you know as a lawyer, scan down, see. There will be parts that will pop out to you. I'm sure they did to me. And there was one company, Zirtual or something like that, something with a Z. I'm going to say I got into the. I'm like, "I got to go see what these guys are all about." I get to the second about information and how it was open to anybody at any time, and I'm like, "Well, how's that keeping legal work product secure?
Jared Correia (23:13):
That's not going to do that. I guess we can kiss that Zertual sponsorship. Goodbye. Oh, well. Read your terms of service, people." All right, let me ask you - I could be wrong on that. So let me ask you this.
Andrea Cannavina (23:27):
Yes, sir.
Jared Correia (23:28):
We're talking about products in general, but now every product's got AI built into it at some level. And then you're paying for subscriptions that give you more access to AI, more tokens and usage, better security. That's a whole hornet's nest for people. So how do you even conceptualize that as an attorney? Because I think it is kind of hard to understand how that technology works for the average lawyer.
Andrea Cannavina (23:59):
The way that I explain it to people, and it really comes down to, because I try to take every technology to the core, the reason why it requires. Do you know why it requires such computing power AI?
Jared Correia (24:13):
Why?
Andrea Cannavina (24:14):
It is computing the next probable word.
Jared Correia (24:19):
Yeah. Yeah.
Andrea Cannavina (24:20):
That's a statistic.
Jared Correia (24:22):
A lot of it's pattern
Andrea Cannavina (24:23):
Matching. The more data it has, the longer it takes to do.
Jared Correia (24:28):
So
Andrea Cannavina (24:28):
I have found personally from a paid account, ChatGPT, an open paid account, I have found that the harder. If you keep a chat going and you keep pressing it and you keep refining it and you keep doing this to it, you keep doing that to it, the work product degrees. And I've tried that five different times because you understand how many loops I have open. I figured let's see if ChatGPT can keep up with me and yep. I heard it. That's interesting. I did. I think I heard it. Actually, that's why I think my machine broke and I had to
Jared Correia (25:03):
Get into desktop. You heard the AI's feelings is what you're telling me?
Andrea Cannavina (25:10):
Everyone will say I wasn't prompting correctly or because I over-prompted, or there will be a reason I'm sure that comes down to it. To me, it should be able to keep. For instance, it said,
Jared Correia (25:22):
Let's put together - I mean, they're coming after you first when the singularity hits. No, no. Remember ChatGPT, I was nice to you.
Andrea Cannavina (25:29):
Yeah. Well, so it said like, okay - I really wasn't. On this project of my paper to portals, the upcoming podcast that I have that starts September 8th. Oh,
Jared Correia (25:40):
Shoot. We had talked about that too. That was part
Andrea Cannavina (25:42):
Of
Jared Correia (25:42):
It. Yeah. So
Andrea Cannavina (25:42):
I had that doing part of it, and then I was awarded the trademark for law firm therapist, so I was
Jared Correia (25:49):
Working
Andrea Cannavina (25:49):
That part of it. So there were these two things that I was working on it with, and they were very separate. And no matter how I tried to keep them separate, it kept confusing the me, and I would be law
Jared Correia (26:01):
Firm
Andrea Cannavina (26:01):
Therapist instead of analog assistant on the podcast, and I would be analog assistant and pretty cheeky and snarky in the law firm therapist stuff. And I'm like, "What is going on?" So like I said, they're going to tell me it was my prompting. Somehow it got. But I find it that you want to find it for something. You want to give it a couple of facts that are not specific and you want to have it map you out what your options are, or you want to load a folder of frigging data to it and find out what are the most common words. There's things that you can do with it that is incredibly fast and productive. What I found is it's not an ongoing. Every conversation is not ongoing and it doesn't necessarily improve. I find it degrades.
Jared Correia (26:50):
Yeah, I agree actually. And I think it's funny, AI is like an intelligent 12-year-old boy. There are intelligent 12-year-old boys out there, but they are also shitheads, and so is the AI. So that is my take on AI. Once I
Andrea Cannavina (27:05):
Found out that it had to keep apologizing to me, because I would say, "Listen, we just said that we were keeping to the specific facts in the spreadsheet I just loaded. You're not creating anything." It would go, "Oh, that's right. I'm terribly sorry. I'm glad you caught that. You are so good." And I'm like, "What? I don't-"
Jared Correia (27:24):
The affirmation stuff is crazy.
Andrea Cannavina (27:26):
We gave you a qubrick at one point, and when I loaded the cubrick, it still didn't. I'm like, "I give up." On the plus side, I can now talk about paper to portals and as law firm therapist quick, quick, quick, because I was trying to train it to do it and it couldn't do it.
Jared Correia (27:41):
Yeah, you're fucking right. I'm amazing ChatGPT. All right, so let's talk about the law firm therapist thing.That's a relatively new branding component for you. I too feel like a law firm therapist sometimes. What does that mean to you?
Andrea Cannavina (27:57):
Okay. As you know, I'm not an attorney, and there are very few people that attorneys can openly discuss things with no fear of reprisal.
Jared Correia (28:08):
Yes. And
Andrea Cannavina (28:08):
Unfortunately, they get to talk to me about more things than they could even talk to you about, because a lot of times when attorneys talk to other attorneys, there's a requirement some attorneys have to say for some things that I don't have.
Jared Correia (28:20):
Yeah.
Andrea Cannavina (28:20):
I am a person that listens to my client's office issues, and quite honestly, I turn into listening to their life issues, and we work
Jared Correia (28:29):
Through
Andrea Cannavina (28:29):
A lot of different issues together. So that's why the cross. I'm not just somebody that's correcting the operations of the firm. I'm not a person that's going in there and changing technology.That's why I don't like to talk about tech even though I'm geeky techie like you and we can't help
Jared Correia (28:42):
It, that's how
Andrea Cannavina (28:43):
We kind of went.
Jared Correia (28:44):
We did a little. We can stop now. Yeah.
Andrea Cannavina (28:48):
And then I think, as you know, a long time ago, basically when technology started taking over, it started taking over by email, and email is where it's at now, and everybody's overloaded with email. I was trying
Jared Correia (29:00):
To - That was the first infestation, is what you're saying?
Andrea Cannavina (29:02):
It was, yes. And I was trying to figure out how to. Remember, legal typist, this was in 2004, so she was three years old. She just morphed from just me to now teams of mes. And then by 2005, I had an operations manager in between me and everybody, but my emails, they were just exploding. It's 05. I understand that's 20 years ago and people can't even conceptualize, but it would ding once in a while. That was
Jared Correia (29:33):
A new thing. Y didn't have emails. Yeah.
Andrea Cannavina (29:36):
And if you didn't answer, people were like, "Are you okay? Are you getting back to me?" I'm like, "Just because you can instantly send doesn't mean I should instantly answer." And I was afraid something was going to fall through the cracks, and I was going to get a bad reputation. And a bad reputation as the CEO of Legal Typist in 2005 was a death knull for my company.
Jared Correia (29:56):
It was a weird time.
Andrea Cannavina (29:57):
Every attorney would've talked about it forever.
Jared Correia (29:59):
It was like every Everybody was like Don Draper and was just sitting at a desk waiting for a phone call. And then all of a sudden everybody was up your ass with emails like twenty four seven. It was crazy.
Andrea Cannavina (30:09):
It went crazy. And so I tried getting things done by David Allen. I'm even proud of myself for being able to read the entire book from start to finish because kids under the age of eight and I got full house restoration, a company that's blowing up. I barely had any time for any. Thank God there
Jared Correia (30:25):
Was no
Andrea Cannavina (30:25):
Video back then. And then, so here I am and I tried GTD. I tried it for two years and it still wasn't working.
Jared Correia (30:32):
Getting things done. Yeah.
Andrea Cannavina (30:33):
Yes. David Allen's getting things done. Yes. And it still wasn't working. And what I found was I had lists upon lists upon lists that I was trying to sync across devices that didn't really sync 2005. And I was trying to figure out ways technologically to get my lists to all sync together instead of doing the stuff that was on it. And then the other part of it was is he's all about file ACTOS. It's an acronym FAT and you're supposed to file it, you're supposed to act on it. File ACTOS as his big thing. But I would have things that I'm sitting with them and I'm thinking and I'm thinking, I'm like, how can I name this to fit in one of those? It doesn't really fit. And so that didn't really work for me because I like to think I'm creative in a very specific analogy way.
(31:23):
So it wasn't an easy thing.
Jared Correia (31:25):
So I'm wasting time trying to - I need more David
Andrea Cannavina (31:28):
Allen. I love David Allen for that. I love David Allen for, he's like a don't stress. He's all about don't stressing. Anybody who has issues with procrastination, he's more on the emotional side than I am. That's why I say I'm more analytic. I support my clients in everything that they're going through, but if I tell you to do X, Y, and Z and we're on our third call and you haven't done X yet, there's going to be more of a conversation than I think David Allen would want to have with you. Yeah.
Jared Correia (31:59):
Hence the law firm therapist Monica.
Andrea Cannavina (32:01):
Yes, that's right. So that's where you
Jared Correia (32:03):
Swing
Andrea Cannavina (32:04):
Back and forth.
Jared Correia (32:05):
So you're helping people with processes, you're caring for their mental health. It's quite the swing, law firm therapist. But
Andrea Cannavina (32:15):
Jared, it's also called an office manager.
Jared Correia (32:18):
Yeah, true. All right. Let me ask you this. How do you think the relationship between. This may be a loaded question. How do you feel the relationship between law firm staff and attorneys has changed over the course of time and has technology helped that? Is it better? Is it worse?
Andrea Cannavina (32:42):
It's both. It depends on the firm and the staff. Unfortunately, it's one of those depends. I feel like an attorney. Depends.
Jared Correia (32:48):
It depends. Okay.
Andrea Cannavina (32:50):
Yeah.
Jared Correia (32:51):
So
Andrea Cannavina (32:52):
I think the influx of email at the personal level, on the professional level, it hit lawyers before it hit staff. And I think they kind of tried to trickle it down. And unfortunately, coming from a corporate employment and labor law background, I never understood and I never actually accepted a mobile device from any employer. I would not. And when they tried to make me, I walked right into the partner of the employment and labor law section and said, "I'm never going to carry one of these for you. I have my own. You can call me if you want. I'm not carrying a second device and I'm not reachable by the firm twenty four seven." And then I looked at them, I said, "Unless you all want to compensate me appropriately, and of course I'll be telling all of the rest of the staff." Guess who never got a mobile device from any employer?
Jared Correia (33:41):
Good for you. It's amazing.
Andrea Cannavina (33:43):
No. So the rise of it turned into the expectation of it, and then the expectation of it turned into the ongoing overloaded stress everybody feels because they're constantly connected to stuff that's either
Jared Correia (33:58):
Coming
Andrea Cannavina (33:59):
In.
Jared Correia (33:59):
You got to be on all the time.
Andrea Cannavina (34:00):
They're pretending they're not noticing it. You only became somebody like that a year and a half ago and you can already agree not to. So people have grown up in this and that you want to know why kids are anxious? And I love when they say social media. No, it's always being on.
Jared Correia (34:16):
Turn
Andrea Cannavina (34:16):
Off, touch the ground, go outside. I'm not going to say play. Goodness gracious. One am I old fashioned? Disconnect. There will be a sinking feeling of addiction and freaking out. And guess what? When you come back a day later, oh shit, nothing really happened.
Jared Correia (34:36):
I know. It is interesting though, because when I was a kid, you would just come across your friends at the park or you just randomly meet people. There's no happenstance anymore in being a child. Everyone's connected all the time. Everybody's playing video games together and chatting. It's just a different world. So I can also understand why that is extremely hard to do for someone who's younger, but I think it is beneficial. It is
Andrea Cannavina (35:03):
Definitely. And I think the play part of it has transitioned because you do have that mingle with people and not knowing who's going to be in the game that you're normally in. So instead of it being in real life, it's usually in a game that these people, I'm going to say generally males, younger males.
Jared Correia (35:20):
Well, right.
Andrea Cannavina (35:22):
Girls, they're more to video each other directly than being in
Jared Correia (35:27):
A game. Yes. I
Andrea Cannavina (35:28):
Find.
Jared Correia (35:29):
That's funny. And then this gives this whole notion that people are different when they're online versus when they're in person. And I think that's - You know
Andrea Cannavina (35:39):
Me in authenticity. That was one of the things you and I talked about all the way back in.
Jared Correia (35:44):
Yeah. I mean, it's great to be authentic, obviously, but I think we're in the culture right now is people will say a whole hell of a lot more things that are divisive if they're on a video call or on a device or gaming than you would say to someone's face. And I think that's ultimately detrimental.
Andrea Cannavina (36:06):
Oh, that goes without a doubt. There's no physical consequences to stupid behavior or
Jared Correia (36:12):
Actions.
Andrea Cannavina (36:13):
Right.
Jared Correia (36:13):
Some of the shit people say online, if you said that to somebody's face, you're getting your ass kicked, but you could say it online and just let it slip into the ether. You
Andrea Cannavina (36:21):
Hope.
Jared Correia (36:23):
I never know what we're going to talk about. I'm always like, "Let's talk about AI." And then we're like, "Well, what about the culture in general?" Okay. You mentioned the podcast. Yes. Tell me about the podcast. What's it about? And people can obviously subscribe and listen if they want to. So what's going on?
Andrea Cannavina (36:43):
So it's called From Paper to Portals, and it's basically me applying what I call analog intelligence to what we have going on now in our digital world. We just spoke of email, for instance. So the first episode is actually talking about email. That one's near and dear to my heart. And as you know, I have a process that I created that I give away to help people with email. So I wanted my
Jared Correia (37:07):
First - Is it more than one or is it just the one?
Andrea Cannavina (37:11):
What?
Jared Correia (37:12):
Your email process. I feel like you've had several email processes over the years now.
Andrea Cannavina (37:17):
I have one. It's kind of like a triad. I have what's Daft is. It helps with decision making. You immediately decide. So it's more of a project management -
Jared Correia (37:28):
But kind of a David Allen spinoff kind of thing.
Andrea Cannavina (37:31):
Yes. That's what we had been talking about earlier. And if anybody wants, just go sign up for my email list and everybody gets a copy. I've been giving it away through TechnoLawyers since 2008, but I've since developed five other processes that this has had in developing these processes to help my clients who all seem to have some kind of neuro something or other kind of thing going on.
Jared Correia (37:57):
A lot of lawyers have
Andrea Cannavina (37:58):
Neurodivergent
Jared Correia (37:58):
Stuff. More on the
Andrea Cannavina (37:59):
Spectrum. I don't know. In any event, so the three
Jared Correia (38:02):
Of them together - You love an acronym as well, which I can really appreciate.
Andrea Cannavina (38:06):
So there's DAFT, there's my control journal, and there's uncalendaring. Those are the
Jared Correia (38:11):
Three.
Andrea Cannavina (38:15):
That's coming out as Box Your Office.
Jared Correia (38:17):
Because
Andrea Cannavina (38:17):
If you have those three processes, I don't care what kind of issues you have, one or two or three of them. You start with DAFT, you go into control journal, you finish with uncalendaring. One is for decision making. One is for ongoing access to information in an analog way. And then the last part of it is basically protecting your capacity. Everybody's turned their calendars into a task system. Calendars are not for tasks. And so the uncalendaring helps protect capacity and it also helps shift with people. A lot of my clients have issues with change, especially on the fly. So
Jared Correia (38:58):
An
Andrea Cannavina (38:58):
Emergency change for something literally can take them out for a week, two weeks. They're just.
Jared Correia (39:03):
Change management is a huge issue for
Andrea Cannavina (39:05):
Office. The uncalendaring helps with that, and that's coming out as boxer office. And those are the concepts, a lot of the types of things that I'm speaking with or on for the podcast. But let me give you the format because I got to be different. I could just record and upload me talking for 20 minutes with an intro and a little exit and we're all done. Everybody go to my website, sign up for my newsletter, get your office chaos score or whatever, and you're all good. However, I find that I'm much more me when I'm not up there standing there like I'm a teacher and I'm more like a human being talking to a bunch of lawyers. So I am recording the podcast with me live on camera, which you know isn't a big thing for me every Tuesday at 12:30.
Jared Correia (39:51):
A live podcast. Me, 20
Andrea Cannavina (39:54):
Minutes.
Jared Correia (39:54):
I would never be so bold.
Andrea Cannavina (39:56):
No, no. I'm doing it. And then anybody who's there live is going to get me for 10 minutes of questions and/or tell me where I'm wrong or how it won't work. And that's the part that I'm looking for. Later in the week, the podcast will be produced and it will be uploaded to YouTube without the question and answers.
Jared Correia (40:17):
Oh, this is interesting. Okay. Or
Andrea Cannavina (40:19):
The video. It is a screen-free podcast when you get it on YouTube. I don't want you to pay attention to anything. I want you to listen.
Jared Correia (40:27):
Interesting. So I'm
Andrea Cannavina (40:28):
Doing it differently as most people and as I usually do.
Jared Correia (40:31):
You're always zagging. Give me the name of the podcast one more time so people can check it out. From Paper
Andrea Cannavina (40:37):
To Portals.
Jared Correia (40:40):
And now we move from the interview to the Beloved Counter program. Andrea, will you stick around for one more segment before we finish up?
Andrea Cannavina (40:49):
Absolutely.
Jared Correia (40:50):
Okay. We'll be right back. Hi everybody. Welcome back. It's the Counter Program. It's a podcast within a podcast. This is a conversational space where we can address usually unrelated topics that I want to explore at a greater depth with my guests. Expect no rhyme and very little reason. Andrea, welcome back. How are you?
Andrea Cannavina (41:14):
Good, good. Thank you for having me.
Jared Correia (41:18):
Well, you live mostly on Long Island. Or maybe I should say Long Island. How was that? Was that good?
Andrea Cannavina (41:28):
That was good. That sounded good.
Jared Correia (41:29):
Really? You think I could pass for a local?
Andrea Cannavina (41:31):
Well, maybe a little more W in the Long Island.
Jared Correia (41:36):
I might not be able to pull that off. So you should know that I've deputized you today as the official representative of Long Island, even over choices like Billy Joel, which means something, I feel like.
Andrea Cannavina (41:53):
I'm in Hicksville where he is from.
Jared Correia (41:57):
Yes. So what we're going to do today on that note is I'm bringing back one of my favorite recurring segments in which we interrogate local dialects and examine phrasing. This is shit Long Islanders say. During this segment, I will provide you with some common words and phrases. Only a real Long Islander would know, and I'd ask you to kindly explain it to the audience, mostly non-Long Islanders in some detail. Andrea, are you ready?
Andrea Cannavina (42:30):
I hope so.
Jared Correia (42:32):
And just be aware, I do not know or have any great coherence with the Long Island dialect, so I'm mostly bringing this information up from the web. So you just tell me if this is like horseshit and people in Long Island don't actually say this. Okay. My first one is chop meat or chopped meat, which is slang for ground beef. Used in a sentence, pick up a pound of chopped meat from the grocery store so I can make tacos tonight. It's Tuesday. Is this real Long Island shit?
Andrea Cannavina (43:13):
Do
Jared Correia (43:14):
People say this?
Andrea Cannavina (43:15):
I call it chopped with the E-D, but I do believe they call it chop here.
Jared Correia (43:22):
Which is correct. Are you again zagging? Okay.
Andrea Cannavina (43:27):
Well, what I find in Long Island. I'm not from Long Island, number one, but I do find that they tend to narrow the words. So I would say chop.
Jared Correia (43:36):
Okay. Give me the Long Island story. You were not from Long Island, but you've lived on Long Island for quite a while. Is that right? Yes.
Andrea Cannavina (43:44):
I graduated high school here. I am Canadian still. I actually applied for my citizenship, waiting on it. Good
Jared Correia (43:51):
Luck with that. I got my fingers crossed for
Andrea Cannavina (43:53):
You. Yeah, it's been a bit. Let me see. So my parents got divorced when I was young. My mother married somebody from New York. We moved down to New York when I was a teenager. I graduated from high school here, not Billy Joels. And I met my husband. We were both working in a country club. He wasn't my husband then. And the fairy tale took over 35 years later. We have a house here in Hecksville. It's middle of the island in Nassau County, not near any of the beaches, not really near any of the really wealthy people or anything like that.
Jared Correia (44:27):
But chopped meat flows in the household. What's your favorite chopped meat recipe? Chopped meat. Sorry, that's how you say it.
Andrea Cannavina (44:35):
Oh, my family loves meatloaf. It's meatloaf Mondays.
Jared Correia (44:39):
Okay. You got a good meatloaf recipe? Use the egg for everything. How do you make your meatloaf? You probably do some crazy
Andrea Cannavina (44:46):
Shit. My meatloaf is generally two to two and a half pounds of chopped meat, and we put in one egg, some Italian breadcrumbs, a chopped onion, a crushed up package of Lipton onion soup mix, a healthy squish of ketchup, including the liquid on the top that you can finally get out of there, several dashes of Worcestershire fire, and that is it. You mix it all up and you put it in a pan and I put it on a flat cookie sheet with foil. I do not put it in a loaf pan. I want the outside nice and my yarded and throw it in a wicked hot oven for about 45 minutes.
Jared Correia (45:22):
Damn, that sounds good. Now I'm really hungry. I would love a meatloaf sandwich right now. Next
Andrea Cannavina (45:28):
Time I see you, if you're anywhere near. If you come into the city, take the train out to Hecksville. They got express. I'll come pick you
Jared Correia (45:34):
Up. Do you do the sandwich, the meatloaf sandwich or is that - Afterwards. Okay.
Andrea Cannavina (45:39):
Slice it nice and thin on rye.
Jared Correia (45:42):
I love a meatloaf sandwich. Okay. Here's my second Long Island phrase. Okay. Waiting online, not the internet, but Long Islanders do not wait in a queue or stand in a line. They physically stand directly on it. In a sentence, I spent 20 minutes waiting online at the deli just to order my breakfast. Is this something that is said in the area?
Andrea Cannavina (46:07):
Absolutely. Absolutely. I have a waiting online story from my husband, which is kind of
Jared Correia (46:15):
Cool. Wait, this would be the time to tell it.
Andrea Cannavina (46:17):
Okay. So I think it was not a Best Buy, Big Lots or something like that. It's no longer here and it was around the corner. It was a long time ago. And they had several cash registers and all of the people for some reason would stand on one line, but there was no wait here. There was no, this was before the pandemic, none of that. So my husband would go up to the next open register and he would just be doing, "That's my husband." And they'd start yelling at him and the manager would have to come out and tell the people waiting online, "There is no one line. You know that, right?"
Jared Correia (46:55):
Yeah. I've seen that happen before in places, for sure. That is a good waiting online story. I didn't think you'd have one, but here we are. This segment's going really well so far. I think I'm learning a lot. Okay. Number three. I got six for you. Number three is it's brick, which is apparently slang for it being cold outside. Here's the sentence usage. "Make sure you grab your puffer jacket before heading outside tonight because it is absolutely brick out there. Never heard that one.
Andrea Cannavina (47:29):
Okay.
Jared Correia (47:30):
This might be new slang. This might be for the young whippersnappers out there.
Andrea Cannavina (47:34):
Perhaps. That's not me.
Jared Correia (47:36):
Please write into the show. Okay. Number four, food shopping, not grocery shopping. So up here in New England, when I say I'm going to go get food at the store, I say I'm going grocery shopping, but apparently in Long Island, people say food shopping to get some chopped meat. Is that correct?
Andrea Cannavina (48:02):
Yes, that's absolutely correct. You go food shopping. You go to the grocery store to do your food shopping.
Jared Correia (48:09):
And then you wait online while the cashier rings you out. What are the local preferred groceries in the Hicksville area?
Andrea Cannavina (48:20):
Well, I'm sad to say that the first grocery chain in the entire country, known as King Cullen, just got bought out. The last five stores are being turned into, I think something like Giuseppe's Meat Market or something like that, which isn't bad.
Jared Correia (48:34):
Wait. Hold on. We need to unpack that. The name of the store is what?
Andrea Cannavina (48:41):
King Cullen. It is the United States' first supermarket chain.
Jared Correia (48:46):
Really? Is it a dude whose last name was Cullen who is the king of groceries?
Andrea Cannavina (48:53):
I never noticed. They were just always around. So I was from Canada, so I didn't know anything better. I just, "Oh, oka, that's where we shop. Okay." That or Food Town, which was the other one. They're not around anymore. Now you go to Shop Rite or Stop & Shop. Oh,
Jared Correia (49:08):
ShopRite I've heard of.
Andrea Cannavina (49:10):
Or
Jared Correia (49:10):
Stop
Andrea Cannavina (49:10):
& Shop. Stop
Jared Correia (49:11):
& Shop is expanding a little bit. We got those up here too. Or
Andrea Cannavina (49:14):
Trader Joe's. I was very disappointed by our local Whole Foods the first time I've gone there ever, and I was not impressed.
Jared Correia (49:23):
I have to say I love Whole Foods and I wish I didn't because Jeff Bezos is fucking terrible. He is. I'm looking at King Cullen right now on Wikipedia. Wild. I had no idea. They operated 27 locations across Long Island as of 2021. Okay, so Giuseppe's is coming in and taking over King Cullen.
Andrea Cannavina (49:46):
I don't know if it was all good
Jared Correia (49:47):
Giuseppe's
Andrea Cannavina (49:48):
Or something like that. It's a Italian market where they have the hanging meats and everything. It's a little less super markety, a little more Italian markety.
Jared Correia (50:00):
I mean, what's good is that you're still several stages away from a Walmart coming in, like one of those hyper Walmarts.
Andrea Cannavina (50:06):
We have
Jared Correia (50:07):
The
Andrea Cannavina (50:07):
Walmarts, but I don't really go to. We kind of go there, my husband and I, he does it because he's out in the field a lot, so he'll stop on the way home. But we don't really do that for our meat or our veggies or anything like that. If we need seltzer or kitty litter
Jared Correia (50:21):
Or
Andrea Cannavina (50:22):
That kind of stuff.
Jared Correia (50:24):
That's not a combination. Okay. Number five, down or up island. On Long Island, East is down and West is up. So one would say, "I'm heading up to Nassau County to catch the Isles game. Don't wait up for me. Is this directionally correct?" You're thinking about it. Nassau
Andrea Cannavina (50:47):
County is. Okay. No, Nassau County is West and Suffolk County is East, but when people say they're headed up north, they're headed up towards. There's the North Shore and the South Shore. So when you say
Jared Correia (51:04):
You're headed
Andrea Cannavina (51:05):
Up North, you're headed up
Jared Correia (51:06):
To
Andrea Cannavina (51:06):
Oyster Bay, Glen Cove, Great Neck, the rich mansions of the West
Jared Correia (51:14):
North
Andrea Cannavina (51:14):
Shore.
Jared Correia (51:15):
That's on the North side. Interesting. Okay.
Andrea Cannavina (51:18):
And then on the South Side, because that's the Bayside, on the South side, you have the multimillion dollar mansions that are on the ocean. When you get to the two coasts, you're getting either to some really wealthy properties, but they're very different because the houses on the South Shore are all modern. They're not like mansions.
Jared Correia (51:40):
So do you say up and down for East and West and then up North and down South?
Andrea Cannavina (51:47):
I don't have that crossed and nobody's ever really, not to me crossed it here.
Jared Correia (51:52):
Interesting. Once again, the internet is bullshit. Now, we're talking a lot about Long Island. I said it. We're talking a lot about Long Island, but I believe Long Island is one of the top 10 economies in the world, if it were its own country. Do you know the numbers on that?
Andrea Cannavina (52:16):
I do not, but I have long felt, even though I have long and felt it should have been its own state. And that's because
Jared Correia (52:24):
Of
Andrea Cannavina (52:24):
Its geographic differences from the. It's just because its proximity to New York City does not make it. The people are very different. It's very rural. The further you go out on Long Island, no matter. You see all of the rich and famous in the Hamptons and stuff, and they make it seem like it's all rich and famous, but there's one street like that. The rest of it is fishermen and fishing towns. It's just really old. I believe the town that Hicksville is in was 1653. Theodore Roosevelt has one of my favorite places to go is his summer White House is here at Sagamore Hill and it's in the town of
Jared Correia (53:04):
Oyster
Andrea Cannavina (53:04):
Bay. So I love to visit that.
Jared Correia (53:05):
Both of Roosevelts, I believe, were on Long Island, I think. Oh, I'm sure several were. Was it Franklin on Long Island as well?
Andrea Cannavina (53:12):
Oh, we had Vanderbilts. We had everybody out here. There's a wealth of the North Shore mansions, if you do ever a kind of deep dive on Long Island and you want to hear the history. It was really like all the, what do you call them? The robber barons coming out. Remember, I missed all of this part of the history. I was in Canada for that part. Yeah.
Jared Correia (53:31):
I miss the robber barons as well. Also, you're not 200 years old.
Andrea Cannavina (53:37):
I didn't know what a fraction was until I was 12 years old and I was thrown into math. That was fun.
Jared Correia (53:43):
I might just leave that there. So as I look, I was a little bit bullish on Long Island, not as aggressive as I thought in terms of economic rankings, but the GDP of Long Island is 600 billion annually and Long Island would rank 30th out of all states economies. Okay. I didn't
Andrea Cannavina (54:07):
Think it was that large, but it's got a lot of different industries. So it does not dependent on one particular thing, which is good.
Jared Correia (54:18):
What would you call the free state of Long Island if you broke off from the rest of the union?
Andrea Cannavina (54:24):
I think we'd have to leave it at Long Island or there'd probably be
Jared Correia (54:26):
A lot
Andrea Cannavina (54:26):
Of brawls.
Jared Correia (54:28):
Fair. Last one for you. This is one I never heard of before. Beg speck, B-E-G-S-P-K. Bacon, egg and cheese with salt, pepper and ketchup. So I might say something like, "Hey Gino, grab me a bag speck from the bagel hut in Farmingdale." How was that? Was that pretty good?
Andrea Cannavina (54:48):
Okay. If you worked in a deli, you'd understand that slang because egg sandwiches and iced teas is really kind of a deli thing here on Long Island. So when you go up, you usually say bag and egg and cheese. Fucking
Jared Correia (55:00):
Love iced teas. But
Andrea Cannavina (55:01):
That's how they write it down. And SPK is salt, pepper, ketchup, SPK. So that's just how it kind of is. I'm a two egg fried cheese, crispy bacon and a thin little sliver of mayo. Salt pepper. Oh
Jared Correia (55:17):
Damn, that sounds good too. Geez. What sort of iced tea? Long Island iced tea, but this is the non-alcoholic version. Actual deli
Andrea Cannavina (55:25):
Iced tea is different. Delis brew their tea differently than you can get
Jared Correia (55:29):
From the beginning sweetened, unsweetened. Do I have the option?
Andrea Cannavina (55:33):
I'm a half and half.
Jared Correia (55:34):
Oh, interesting. I'm learning so much today. Can I just say that there is nothing in this world like a New York bagel? We have bagels up here, but they're dog shit. I love New York bagels. I understand just the water that makes the bagel.
Andrea Cannavina (55:53):
I've had bagels from a lot of different places. I've had pizza from a lot of different places.
Jared Correia (55:58):
It
Andrea Cannavina (55:58):
Has to be the water. It has to be something because it is different.
Jared Correia (56:03):
Thank you for putting up with our bullshit for almost an hour. It'll be shorter after Evan cuts this down, but this is a pleasure. You'll have to come back sometime.
Andrea Cannavina (56:14):
Anytime you want to have me, I'm more than happy. You just let me know. Give me enough time to throw on some concealer and fix my head. Next time I'll be in a hat.
Jared Correia (56:23):
Oh, great. That's a good idea. I got some for you. Thank you. We'll talk soon.
Andrea Cannavina (56:26):
We'll do coordinating hats and earphones. That would be
Jared Correia (56:29):
Amazing. I'll put sunglasses
Andrea Cannavina (56:30):
On.
Jared Correia (56:31):
That'd be amazing. Thank you. Thanks for our guest today, Andrea Cannavina, the law firm therapist. To learn more about Andrea and her work, visit andreacannavina.com. That's Andrea, C-A-N-N-A-V-I-N-A.com, andreacannavina.com. Try to spell it. You probably get to the right website. Now, because I'll always be a '90s kid who needed to be home Sundays at 9:30 PM on the dot to be back for new episodes of Herman's Head, but his true passion is burning CDs for anyone who would listen. I'm now just doing the modern version of that, which is creating Spotify playlists for every podcast episode that I record where the signs are tangentially related to an episode topic. This week's Spotify playlist is for the Boomers. It's the Boomers Playlist and his songs about explosions. It's sponsored by Morgan & Morgan. No, it's definitely not. I don't see that happening ever. Join us next time when I lick the wallpaper because it worked in Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.
(57:36):
Those fucking Umpa-loompas weren't working from home. Now, were they? Were they?