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Away We Go We Go follows the journey of Sophie & Jordan Epton, an American couple who moved to France with their 10-month old twins, and the crazy adventure that follows. We dive deep into what it's really like moving and living abroad as expats, interview others who have taken the road less traveled, provide travel tips, discuss how you can do hard things to change your own life, and everything in between.
Sophie: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome back to another episode of The Away We Go. We Go podcast. What's
Jordan: up everybody?
Sophie: So how are we doing? My love.
Jordan: Good. I'm good. Uh, Sophie was really funny earlier when she asked me if I wanted a croissant now or later. It's hilarious. It's now, it's always now. Um, God, I love him so much.
Jordan: It's impossible for me to not take the twins to school and stop by the boin on the way and just grab stuff and I always get [00:01:00] too much. I have a problem when Sophie tells me, go pick up a few things and I, I over shop. I'm an over shopper. Anybody out there an over shopper, because I have a problem with quantities.
Sophie: Yeah, you do. You don't understand.
Jordan: No, I don't get it at all. I have no concept of quantities, so I, I get way too much, especially when it's stuff that I really, really like.
Sophie: Well, and that also comes to when you are ordering food at a restaurant, which happened to us, I feel like on Saturday night we went to a great new restaurant in Acts, um, that our wonderful friend Jamie Beck.
Sophie: We went to this amazing little hole in the wall called Leite B, and it was a dim sum restaurant. And it was, I mean, what's funny is it was like, probably like the French or the ex version of Dim Sum. I mean,
Speaker 3: you know, it wasn't, it wasn't like true dim sum, not traditional.
Speaker 3: I mean, it, it was like, you know, dim sum inspired. Yes. [00:02:00] We'll call it. Yes.
Sophie: That's why I say but, but it was, it was delicious. It was such a cute place. The B buns, oh man,
Speaker 3: we crushed these B buns for a, a starter and a dessert.
Sophie: They were the best I've ever had. Like yeah, they were good. It was, I would literally go back there every week just to eat a B bun.
Sophie: So that was, it was, it was like a good spot. It was a good find. But you per usual ordered way too much food. And it was really funny because we didn't finish a couple of the dumplings and we left them in the little Bambi humor to like sneak
Speaker 3: it over. Like, eh, we know they're probably gonna say something 'cause they always do here, but Well,
Sophie: and they did and they came back with this very puzzled look on their visit. They brought it back. Oh, you, you didn't eat two of these.
Speaker 3: Yeah. You didn't, did you guys know you still had some here We're like, like that's something that's very,
Sophie: that is something that's very French. It's like if you order, they kind of expect that you will finish it.
Sophie: When you don't, there's a lot of times there's some offense taken. It's really interesting. Got it. Funny. Very different. [00:03:00] Um, but it was, but it was great. And then yesterday we got to celebrate decorating for Christmas and Hanukkah with the twins, which was so much fun.
Speaker 3: So like we're, you know, we're American.
Speaker 3: We're still gonna celebrate Thanksgiving. But here, like after Halloween, I think Christmas is the next holiday. Oh
Sophie: yeah. And by, and by the middle of the month in November, every year X is like totally decorated. They have the cutest little, little log cabins that they, the line all of cor Cro Bo and they are selling all these great gifts.
Sophie: They have, you know, glue wine, like hot mold wine. They have all of these,
Speaker 3: you say
Sophie: glue wine. Glue wine. That's what it's called.
Speaker 3: Oh, I didn't know that. Um,
Sophie: and yeah, and you know, just like roasted chestnuts and all these fun things. We just very festive. We thought it would be really fun, especially because I'll be real, like Luca is still very stuck on Halloween and I'm like, buddy, I love you, [00:04:00] but Halloween's done for the year.
Sophie: We gotta move on to the next. So it's been fun. Like yesterday we decorated the tree, they helped us or it's really hilarious because literally all of the ornaments, 'cause we let them hang them up, there's nothing at the top. And of course everything just covered at the bottom. So funny. So I'm still trying to decide if I would just wanna let it be cute like that or if I am gonna change it because my, you're, if your
Speaker 3: OCD is gonna kick, your OCD is gonna flare open.
Speaker 3: No, it has to be evenly distributed.
Sophie: Yeah. No,
Speaker 3: it's fun because they really got Halloween this year. Like they understood.
Sophie: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And so now they understand Christmas and they know things about it and they know like, oh, we're gonna sing a Christmas song.
Sophie: And they're learning because Christmas is coming.
Sophie: They, they're learning all these songs at school. So when I do pick up, they'll always just start bursting into song. Like the other day they were singing Jingle Bells. I was like, where did you learn that? You learn that at school. So fun. So it's, yeah, it's really, really cute. So yeah, it was, it was fun to like get into the holiday spirit.
Sophie: Now, Jordan, being the Grinch that he [00:05:00] is, we are not really allowed to play a lot of Christmas music just yet, which hurts my heart. But after Thanksgiving, it's on, it's on.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not a total Grinch. I've, I've become less Grinch fight over the years, but that's true.
Sophie: You
Speaker 3: know, I mean, we have our menorah up, right?
Speaker 3: Like, I grew up celebrating Hanukkah and grew up celebrating Christmas. So for me, hearing the, the Christmas songs, I'm like, I can do it and I wanna facilitate a happy holiday environment, but. Maybe a slightly shorter term
Sophie: where I could have, I could have been listening to for two months, I mean, two months straight.
Speaker 3: Definitely love the jams.
Sophie: Yeah. So, but what's really funny is it kind of got us thinking a little bit more even yesterday about how we celebrate Christmas differently living here and we're just reflecting a lot right now on, you know, what it's been like [00:06:00] living here and just really feeling like in some ways, like we've assimilated really well in some ways that are just still like oof nails on a chalkboard with certain things that we're trying to get used to.
Sophie: Which, yes, it's been two and almost two and a half years and it just, it's, it's not a linear thing. It's, it takes time
Speaker 3: and we were. We, we played the fantasy game. It's not fantasy, it's not the right word because it's not like something that we fantasize about, but we, we played like the what if game when we were cruising around and we were talking about like, because we originally intended to move here before having kids and circumstances were the circumstances.
Speaker 3: Like we got pregnant with twins. Like there was no way we were traveling before that, but we were like, you know, going down the road of what do we think the experience would've been like if we had moved here Then like when we had originally decided. And so it was just interesting to do that. I don't know if [00:07:00] it was like an exercise or whatever, but it was just a really interesting conversation because I think, you know, for us, obviously it just very quickly circled back to .
Speaker 3: You know, for us like this, this has just been wild and crazy and insane. But like with the twins, so much fun. So much fun and like, you know, uh, we've talked about them and we've, we've definitely had our struggles, which I also think we've said our agnostic to where we live. We've fucking twins. It's just crazy.
Speaker 3: So, and there's three, and now they're threes, they're
Sophie: not 10. They're three.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, you know, we talked about that a lot, but it was really interesting to like, talk about that perspective and just kind of reminisce a little bit over the last nearly two and a half years, and just kind of have that conversation about some of these things that were shocking.
Speaker 3: When we first moved here and kind of subsided 'cause we're used to 'em now and some things that are shocking that continue to be [00:08:00] shocking and continue to baffle us a little bit, you know, two and a half years in. So,
Sophie: yeah. So that's fun. Um, if you are new here, if you're new listener, we are American expats.
Sophie: We left two and a half years ago with our twins. They were 10 months old at the time and we just thought, you know, we've been talking about this for almost a year, kind of in little bits and pieces just about what the real is and , there's so many beautiful things about living here, but, but there's, there's some really real things.
Sophie: And we thought, we're gonna create an episode that this is the episode to listen to. If you just really want the rundown of what is really different from living in America and the things that you have to surrender to. And assimilate to, in order to, I think, find the most enjoyment in your life.
Sophie: Because, and I am absolutely guilty of this, when you try to fight certain things, it doesn't do you any favors. When we were in California [00:09:00] and we were working, and this lovely woman that we were working with, she said, Ugh. She's like, I just watch your Instagram stories in your apartment and it's just, it's a dream.
Sophie: And we said, it is, it's absolutely a dream. We wake up every day and we're grateful. But if you think that moving to France is easy, that's where it gets real. And so we thought we would just share with you in a very concise, easily digestible podcast episode. You know what, what you need to really prepare yourself for.
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
Sophie: If you want to move to France.
Speaker 3: So obviously the disclaimer is like. This is what we've been exposed to. People with different circumstances are gonna come across some of these similar situations just in a different way. Right. Um, so we recognize that this is literally just things that we've discussed a lot, but through our lens.
Speaker 3: So, [00:10:00]
Sophie: all right. Shall we?
Speaker 3: We shall.
Sophie: Okay. So one of the things that is probably, I think the hardest as an American to deal with or understand is that, there's a lot of like cultural and personality differences that maybe Americans don't expect when they move.
Speaker 3: And, and it's interesting 'cause I think a majority of people making the move, like inherently know that people are different in you course different language, different countries, but.
Speaker 3: You know, it's, it's one thing to think it and then the next or the other thing, or it's another thing. However, my English is getting worse. Um, definitely it's one thing to like, think and be like, yeah, I know, I know people are different and, and whatever. But then living it and you're like, yeah, but I'm, I'm me, so I'm going to have my interactions the way I have interactions with people.
Speaker 3: And then [00:11:00] it doesn't work out that way. And you're like, shit.
Sophie: I know. Well, essentially at the end of the day, you know, Americans have, I mean a lot of French people would describe it as Americans are very surface level, friendly. Then maybe not as friendly as time goes on. I don't know if I totally agree with that, but that
Jordan: we've, we've heard that though for sure.
Jordan: We've heard that from French
Sophie: people, whereas French people are not, they're way more reserved and not as friendly on the surface. But then once you're in, like you're in, and it's a very deep relationship. But I think the thing that's really hard is that, and even with a lot of our friends that are French, is we have, I would say, a lot more positivity and they look at it more as they're just honest.
Sophie: I even saw this actually on Instagram the other day with this really big account with these French guys that explain a lot of just cultural differences and language and all that, but they, they just, they're like, you know, [00:12:00] people think that French people are rude, but that we're just honest, which, yes.
Sophie: I think it's good to be honest, but I think where you kind of lose the plot line coming in as an American is you're just used to people sprinkling in a little bit more sugar. And it can kind of be brutal at times. Even like with some of our friends, they'll say things and I'll be like, I know I shouldn't be offended, but I kind of am because you're just being so fucking blunt.
Sophie: And it's just like, I didn't need that today. And even
Speaker 3: when they'll say stuff to me like, I'll be tired because I'm tired for whatever reason, have the twins or late night. And I'll see them be like, oh Jordan, you look like shit today. And I was like, the fuck man? Yeah. And they're like, no, I mean you look like really tired.
Sophie: You're not, you're not gonna really have like a lot of small talk unless they kind of really understand more of the American culture. Like if, sometimes I feel like when people are in retail, they really understand because their clients are American and they've been [00:13:00] around Americans.
Sophie: Or if they do something with like service where their clients are all foreigners, then they know they need, you know, like it's a different thing they have to turn on. But, but otherwise it's just more reserved, making friends. It takes time, like it's a slower building of your social circle, but I think it's, very deep once you're in, like the fact that, I've talked about this, we've had friends who.
Sophie: When Jordan was away in the US and our car got towed mm-hmm. And they helped me out so much because I would've been so screwed because they just were able to do everything they needed to sweet talk everyone Yeah. On every corner to make everything happen. So it was, you know, we've had friends
Speaker 3: help us move.
Sophie: Yeah. We've had friends help us move. Yeah. Which is
Speaker 3: cool too. And you're just like, they're, they're working a, a full day and then they're like, yeah, just text me and I'll come, come over and help and like wheel things across town. Like they get really sweet. But it took,
Sophie: it, it takes time. And I think when you're just [00:14:00] to get there when you're having your daily interactions, when I'm having kind of like when I was living in the US and I would just have kind of, you know, a day where you woke up and you got out of, bed, it was got on out on the wrong side of bed, so to speak. And I would just be like, you know what? I need to go out and like be with people.
Sophie: Because most of the time I would have really nice interactions just running errands or whatever and it would just, it would like lighten my mood and lighten my spirit. And I don't know, I am not saying all the time, but I think sometimes here , it's just not the case And you know, and that's okay.
Sophie: It's just something that you have to retrain yourself for because it's just different. It just is.
Speaker 3: I mean it was funny because I think there was somebody that you talked to that, you always say this when you see somebody again and you're like, Hey, I'm a hugger. And like we would say that in the US all the time and people like would
Sophie: say that.
Sophie: People like,
Speaker 3: yeah, I'm a hugger. And when we do it like. You can feel in the hug how uncomfortable, uncomfortable. Oh my gosh. Like, [00:15:00] all right, this is, this millisecond is way too long. And I'm like a 22nd hug. I'm like, Nope, I'm not done. Stick around. It's pretty funny.
Sophie: People will definitely know that I am American because I can't help it.
Sophie: I still smile at everyone a lot. I, I wouldn't say I walk around now with a smile all the time, but if I am, just making some sort of, even if it's just like a, a brief encounter with someone on the street where our eyes meet for some reason or, you know, some sort of interaction.
Sophie: Like I will still smile and I mean, I smile
Speaker 3: at people like that's. I like that. People, people. I like that part about me, so I do too.
Sophie: And I never want that to change. Yeah. It is what it is. But it just, but it's funny. Yeah. Like I'll, I'll
Speaker 3: get a smile if, because I'll make eye contact with people all the time and they rarely, if ever smile certain if I'm with the twins.
Speaker 3: It's a little bit different.
Sophie: I was gonna say the twins make people smile. Yeah. Big. I actually had a guy, like a big buff dude [00:16:00] today than me. Turn around when it was, yeah, it was today when I was taking the kids in the, in the po set. Wait, what'd you just say?
Speaker 3: I said, is he bigger than
Jordan: me?
Sophie: Always.
Jordan: Right.
Sophie: Um, in the, sorry, in the stroller.
Sophie: Man, there's just certain words I don't even like think about in English anymore, but, and he like turned around and smiled at them. It was really cute. So children definitely, I feel like a lot of times make French people's like heart smell. So we get smiles 'cause of them. But that's about it. I'll catch
Speaker 3: people if I like look at them and they give a big smile.
Speaker 3: They'll like,
Sophie: we have a lot of, oh, and they'll
Speaker 3: smile back and it's sweet. But the smiles that we get
Sophie: are a lot from like old people just being adorable, coming up to us and asking us about the twins. And it's true. It's very sweet. So we've talked, let's kind of move on to just lifestyle adjustments that will surprise you that you need to be open to, 'cause there's quite a few.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Speaking of being open to um, or not being open to, yeah. So like you have to plan, so this is like [00:17:00] very real for like vacationing, but you know, when you're like living and you're figuring out your routine, you can kind of get there. But. It still comes up and sneaks up that they have weird ass shop open hours for stores.
Sophie: Well, it's weird to us because we're used to things. It is weird being open 24 7. Yeah, convenience of everything. Yeah. Which I mean honestly that is the beauty of it. When you,
Jordan: I know
Sophie: when something is that convenient, when everything is open 24 7, you can get all of your shopping errands done in like a four hour period and be done with it.
Sophie: And that is, you will never be able to have that time living in France. They are open in literal three hour chunks, maybe four hour chunks in the afternoon, if you're lucky. It just
Speaker 3: depends on like the type of store, like there's a lot of grocery stores that you know, don't close in the middle of the day.
Speaker 3: Vegetable market doesn't close in the middle of the day, but they do close a bit early and , if they close at [00:18:00] seven and sometimes. You need something. Sometimes the brother's gotta go and get some food after seven, be like, oh shit, I don't have this anymore. And you're not gonna the veggie stand anymore.
Speaker 3: The butcher's closed.
Sophie: Yeah. It's really interesting and it's, it makes it much more, I would say, trying, and this is something that I think is one of those things that we still do struggle with, just because we really could use a little more convenience when our days are already so structured because of the kids and because they go to school and we have drop off and pick up.
Sophie: So it's like a lot of times Jordan will drop the kids off and then he knows he has a half an hour before his work starts to run and get something done, but Oh, but they're not open till 10 o'clock. They're not open at nine 30 and he only has till 10. So it's just all these things. So essentially.
Sophie: For those that don't know, you'll have a shop open most of the time, like a traditional shop between like maybe 10 [00:19:00] to one,
Sophie: right?
Sophie: Or 10 to noon. They'll take a midday lunch break and lunch is sacred to the French, it is their biggest meal of the day. It's oftentimes you'll have restaurants that do these specials where you do like an appetizer and entree and a dessert with a lunch special.
Sophie: 'cause everyone's out for lunch and they will have a two hour lunch like every single day. So don't expect anything again, to be open until three earliest, or four. And then they're closed by seven. I mean, I kid you not, we have a dry cleaner. They're open only, I think Tuesday through Saturday. I think Wednesdays are a little bit funky for hours.
Sophie: They're open from 10 to 12 and from five to seven at night. That's it.
Speaker 3: And you're just like, I can't do that though. Yeah.
Sophie: , And then you think about, they have a million holidays, they, and then also around the holidays, like people just decide to shut down.
Sophie: Or if they just decide to take their own holiday and they don't, you know, [00:20:00] they don't really understand or it's not part of their, it's not part of their culture to do, like shifts obviously, or have people cover a lot of the time. So if there is a small business owner and they're gonna take their holiday, you know, gone, they'll just close for a week gone and you won't even know.
Sophie: And they just put a note on the door and it is what it is. And then of course, yeah, I forgot
Speaker 3: about that. Speaking of the, the whole butcher crew, maybe they have other people that are gonna be working there, I'm hoping, but they're going to Disney for the week. I was talking to him on Saturday, I was grabbing some stuff.
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh shit, should I be getting like
Sophie: everything,
Speaker 3: like 30 chicken breasts and like eight pounds of ground beef while you're gone? We probably don't eat that much. See, I, I'm an over shopper. I don't know how to do it. Um, but yeah, it's, it's definitely wild. So , definitely pay attention to it. Have a backup plan.
Speaker 3: Maybe it's not the worst thing that I overshot because when things close, when we don't expect them to, we're like, alright, we have food, we got some stuff [00:21:00] ache on. So it could be worse, but
Sophie: No, but it's, it's really wild because like, I always keep, I don't know if anyone else uses Trello here, but I use Trello.
Sophie: If you don't know what trello.com, it'll save your life. But I use a Trello board all the time to keep myself like organized. And I have like more of a, like a miscellaneous section where it's like stuff that, like errands that Jordan and I just need to run for the week. And truly something that if we really concentrated with just the two of us with a good amount of time would take us four hours.
Sophie: We can't even get to sometimes in a full week because of all this planning you have to do around all of these closures. So just know it'll be much slower and planning ahead really does become essential.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that was the other thing because to to the whole point of like when we go grocery shopping, right, we go to multiple places.
Sophie: Um,
Speaker 3: over the weekend I did make a run . I made a big run to the car four.
Sophie: Oh [00:22:00] yes. We love Car four on Sunday. Oh yeah. To get some stuff. Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: uhhuh. And I was with the twins. I was like, I'm gonna take 'em with me. We're gonna put 'em in the shopping cart.
Speaker 3: We're gonna have some fun. We got there at like 11, 11 30, something like that, whatever. And we do some shopping. I don't know, my way around the store, it's massive. And then one of 'em has to go to the bathroom. So I'm walking and I asked the security guard, we're speaking in French. I'm like, Hey, can we just, can I leave the cart here?
Speaker 3: We're gonna pop out to use the bathroom. And he is like, well, we're closing. And I'm just like, what? He's like, you gotta pay for everything. I was like, yeah, no. I'm gonna leave the cart here and then I'll take the kids and I'll be right back. They're like, no, we're closing the store. I'm like, what? I was like, all right, I just gotta take him to the bathroom and I'll come back and, and pay.
Speaker 3: He's like, all right, fine. I was like, what the fuck just happened? And I came back and I, I wasn't paying attention 'cause I didn't think that the biggest grocery store in this whole fucking region would close at 1230 on a Sunday.
Sophie: Boy, you were wrong.
Speaker 3: Boy was I [00:23:00] wrong? Whatcha doing? Like I came back in and it was a ghost town in there.
Speaker 3: I'm like, but it's 1230 on a Sunday. Why is this closing? I have twins with me and I need so many more things. So we paid and we got out of there and they seemed really, really annoyed that we were like one of the last people. 'cause it was just taking a while because, you know. Two, three year olds. But yeah, I mean we, I normally don't do something like that.
Speaker 3: I normally go to three or four different shops to get all my groceries. It's just, they're along the way. They're planned.
Sophie: So I, and I think it's like when you are on vacation, it's like charming to do that and you have all this time, but when you're, when you are juggling life, real life, it's a different beast.
Sophie: So yeah, de definitely something to majorly think about. It becomes a huge, huge part of your life. The other thing too is that, we personally, I don't think represent this quite as much because we found like truly the apartment of [00:24:00] our dreams. And I feel very lucky saying that, but I will say there's still things that are really, like searching for an apartment here was an interesting excursion.
Sophie: Anyone who's traveled to Europe knows this already, but it's like, you know, you're dealing with everything that's like smaller, it's tighter, it's more cozy. But I think actually when you live somewhere and you're, or and you're buying a house, buying an apartment, renting a house, renting an apartment, the things that are kind of more shocking are like, just not quite understanding how much storage you'll have to buy on your own.
Sophie: Because there's really no closet space. I mean, we have, we have a front closet that's like, for kind of more miscellaneous storage, and then we have two closets in the kids' room and that's it.
Sophie: So it's so just kind of understanding, like you're not, like you have to throw out a lot more stuff or like just get really organized. [00:25:00] And even for us, we have to, you know, we're thinking about like, should we buy more like big storage units for our hallway in the back to like store more things or like, you know how it, it just, it becomes such a, like when this was never really a big conversation.
Sophie: We lived in the States, of course. And now it's like,
Speaker 3: because we were hoarders. We lived in Texas.
Sophie: I think about how much we used to Yeah. Like keep so much stuff, but, but it's, yeah. So, and we
Speaker 3: didn't even have kids then.
Sophie: I know. I know. That's
Speaker 3: gross.
Sophie: People are really shocked when I tell them this, that when you, for instance, this apartment that we rented did not come with any appliances besides did not the stove top that was built in. We had to spend, I don't know, close to five grand. Five grand, yeah.
Sophie: Close to five grand. Furnishing it with everything you could think of for the kitchen and washer and dryer. So that's because we're
Speaker 3: American and we wanted a dryer, and we have, we did want a dryer. We have frigging twin babies.
Sophie: Yeah, we definitely [00:26:00] needed a dryer. So yeah,
Speaker 3: we needed a dryer. Well, so the first apartment that we moved into when we got here did not have a dryer, was just a washing machine.
Speaker 3: We were hanging everything, made everything stink.
Sophie: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Made everything feel super like stiff. And literally
Sophie: there was, there's a, there's an influencer that I follow from Amsterdam and she came on last week and she said, you guys, how do I change this? Because the dryers don't work here and all of my clothes always end up smelly and stiff.
Sophie: And I'm like, I don't know. Like that is one thing. Every time we go back to the states, we're like , a real dryer that dries in like 45 minutes and the clothes smells so good. I think we've started to hit our rhythm, but it took a while to figure out the exact detergent we love and the like exact settings and just timing everything, right?
Sophie: Because we've definitely, this sounds so gross, but we had to throw clothes out because they smelled like mildews [00:27:00] disgusting. So just things like that. And you just wonder how have people not ever had a dryer and have hung everything on a line.
Speaker 3: Yeah,
Sophie: like the this and PE
Speaker 3: and then people do that.
Speaker 3: Well, of course there's a huge
Sophie: part of it. People think we're kind of crazy that we have a dryer. Also it's like, you know, we don't have things like a laundry room. Like our laundry isn't our bathroom. And the bathroom never feels clean enough to me because there's always piles of laundry.
Sophie: Yeah. It drives me crazy. But it is what it is. It's
Speaker 3: what it's um, I will say that, you know, we, we had talked about this before we moved. We're like, look, we, we live in a ranch style house. It was 1400 square foot plus a two car garage plus a backyard, plus a driveway in a front yard. Like we had space, man, we were on a corner lot,
Sophie: tons of space.
Sophie: And
Speaker 3: we were like , Europe is not designed like that. It's super old buildings and they were not built with that kind of size in mind. And we talked [00:28:00] about, yeah, we're gonna have to downsize and mean we. We definitely offloaded a ton of stuff.
Sophie: Oh my gosh. Most of our stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Um, and still we have a lot.
Speaker 3: But you know, the other thing is that a lot of these cities are so walkable in the cities, I think we noticed this for the first time when we were in Marrakesh, when we were walking around. Like it's, it's a, it's very communal, which it is here too, like
Sophie: Oh yeah.
Speaker 3: People know each other, but it's just, it's walking and people are just outside a lot.
Speaker 3: Yeah. They're, they're outside of their homes a lot and so I think , you kind of make some sacrifices and, and then, you know, you gain some stuff too. Uh, because Oh yeah, there's much to gain. I mean, yeah,
Sophie: you, you don't have to spend all your time at home because outside is so beautiful and you have everything at your fingertips, which is incredible.
Sophie: Yeah. But it's just, it's, yeah. It's, it's, it's been kind [00:29:00] of wild transitioning from what we had in the States, to now we have, I will say though, because we found this apartment, like the, even the lack of storage for me and, not having a laundry room, that kind of thing is , it's fine.
Sophie: It's totally fine. That's probably one of the things I'm Yeah. The most assimilated to at this point, but,
Sophie: right.
Sophie: One of the things that I probably still struggle with on the daily, even though I've gotten much better and much more city savvy, is driving, driving here, is I told Jordan this a while ago.
Sophie: I will never complain again about anything to do with the streets, the width of the streets, the parking situation in America, because it is like, I don't even know how to describe it. It's such a case walk. We were in
Speaker 3: California and we stopped by I, we stopped by some mall for something at one point, and I remember going up the ramps into the parking garage.
Speaker 3: I'm like, what is [00:30:00] this runway, this airport runway of a ramp just to get into the garage? It was massive. And here, when you turn corners, you literally are going slowly. 'cause you're like, don't scrap that side. Don't scrape that side. Don't scrape. Miss my mirror. Miss this one. Like, oh gosh, I'm terrified.
Speaker 3: Like every car has shit on the side. It is
Sophie: terrifying. Tiny. I mean, it doesn't matter where you go. And of course we had to get. Not the small car because of our kids. So we have this wide car, well considered wide, it was so funny, there was a little fiat that parked next to our car.
Jordan: It was so funny. The other day we were like, looked like a little brother.
Sophie: Yeah, yeah it did. It's like we tried to get a huge car. We're driving a sedan, but it's, yeah, it's nuts because it's like everywhere you go, I mean, even the garage that we now park at, that's a 15 minute walk from where we live because that's the only one we could find that would fit our car. And it's a brand new garage, like [00:31:00] beautiful setup.
Sophie: But it barely fits the car and it is a thing still to get it in and out. It's just like everywhere you go just know it's a thing. And granted, I think it's made me a much better driver over the last two years. I can now. Parallel park like a motherfucker, like
Jordan: a motherfucker. You're killing it.
Jordan: I'm very impressed because
Sophie: I never used to, because I don't know, it wasn't something that I needed to do back in the United States and I always was true, like scared of it, but it's now I'm like, I got this. And I'm driving in really weird places down really strange little alleyways that are super narrow and just, you just get used to it, but it's still not, I mean, if you think I'm not screaming, fuck, fuck, fuck.
Sophie: Sometimes
Sophie: when
Sophie: I'm driving, it's a new experience and it's something that I'm continually getting used to. So
Speaker 3: you've been doing a great job with it. Thank you. It's not easy.
Sophie: I wanna move on to talk more about just knowing if you're moving and you're [00:32:00] looking up things about moving to France, no doubt, one of the first things you'll see is the bureaucracy and how insane it is.
Sophie: The biggest thing to note, and we talk about this all the time, is the French Love paper. And not only do they love paper, they do, but they just, they love just creating, you know, they have the dossier. Everything is like a pile of paper that you have to submit for everything you do.
Sophie: And so whether it's, getting your visa, getting your health card, like doing paperwork, every time we've had to apply for a crash or a school for the kids, it's like a whole to do. And it's, although I will have to say we had to fill out a lot less paperwork for their school because it's international versus the crash, which is French.
Sophie: Very French. So it's just you feel like you're, to me, it's almost like. If you've bought a house and what you've had to do with your lender and all the paperwork that you had to submit electronically, think about that. Turn it into a [00:33:00] physical pile of papers that you have to turn into your mortgage lender and then think about having to do that.
Sophie: Probably like, oh, I don't know, at least seven to eight times a year, maybe more depending on what you're doing.
Sophie: So ridiculous.
Sophie: I mean, but yeah, depending on what you're doing. So, it's hard not to get a little bit bent out of shape sometimes when it's not only there's so much to submit, but also like it's just slow to process and there's really slow responses and it's really maddening.
Sophie: I
Speaker 3: feel like you're taking crazy pills and Yeah, there's been times where we're like. Is this even worth it? You know, and you can, yeah, go back to earlier episodes where, we talk about our why, and it's like moments like that, that you're like, oh God, this is just like way too overwhelming and much to deal with.
Speaker 3: But then you kind of go back to your, why did I do this to begin with? And I think that really, yeah, and there's so many
Sophie: amazing whys, but it's just, it's again, it's like, it's just knowing these [00:34:00] things so you don't get hit in the face with it. We're trying to help as much as we possibly can to set expectations.
Sophie: Again,
Speaker 3: not as immigration consultants or lawyers, but just sharing our experience.
Sophie: Sharing our experience. So, and even like, you know, the healthcare system is so incredible. We've talked about it a million times on this podcast, but at the end of the day, it's affordable, like insanely affordable and efficient.
Sophie: But there's things about it. Like every time, I mean, it took us so long to remember to bring the health book that this paper book mm-hmm. Saying paper again, that you have to bring with you to every appointment with your kids. 'Cause they write everything down on paper and I'm like, well what if this, what if you lose it?
Sophie: What if it burns up in a fire? Like, what do you do then? And it's, I I think they have some electronic,
Jordan: she throw it into the washing machine. Yeah,
Sophie: exactly. I'm like, there's just so many things that could happen. The dog could chew it. So , it's just funny. It's just, it's so, it, yeah. It's just, they, they still rely so much on paper and , it's [00:35:00] like whenever, like something's gone, you know, gone wrong.
Sophie: I would say like our, our kids, you know, there was, if our kids are sick, you're never taking them to a normal, like urgent care. And you definitely can't get in with your doctor. They're booked up so much that it's like impossible to get in with them for like weeks generally. So the amount of times we've been to the children's hospital wing, well I should say Jordan, 'cause he's amazing and he just deals with that way better.
Sophie: Me all my way around
Speaker 3: at this point. You know, it's just easy. Yeah.
Sophie: But you are just taking them to the hospital. Like that's, it's just it. So it's all structured really differently and just, yeah, it's just, you're just going to wait, it's just gonna be slower. You're gonna have to fill out a lot more with paper and it is what it is.
Sophie: So I think we've definitely gotten better about this for sure. I think we just kind of know what it's gonna be.
Sophie: Something else that I wanted to touch on, which I think is really important, and it's probably one of the biggest, I would say, sort of like [00:36:00] mind fucks that you have to wrap your head around is that even though people always talk about they move to France because they wanna look for like slower days, slower lifestyle, which I think, I mean it is like one of the most beautiful things about living here is that I think people have their heads screwed on, right?
Sophie: In so many different aspects where, you know, like family and friends are the center of their universe and education
Speaker 3: is so important, education is
Sophie: important. All of those things, it's incredible. But what I will say is that if you were, for instance, moving here as a retiree, it would be so easy to just.
Sophie: I mean, anyone who we know who's retired here, they're having the best fucking time of their life.
Jordan: I mean, you get to explore and there's so much to explore and they
Sophie: can, and they can just fold into, into that world. But if you're coming here, which I know so many people like ourselves are moving here, as people who are working, needing to make money, have kids, whatever it is, [00:37:00] it's a much harder kind of cultural difference to assimilate into because people do not understand, especially because it's very hard for people to understand why we work the way that we do.
Sophie: A lot of my friends have that more entrepreneurial, like freelancing, whatever it is, personality where you come from America.
Sophie: You know that anything is possible. You can do anything that you want. And it's not, I'm not saying you can't do that here. In fact, that's one of the best ways to get a visa is to become an entrepreneur. But just the mindset is really different here. People don't understand, it's more of a risk averse culture, I would say, in a lot of ways.
Sophie: And people love having the jobs that they go to, which is amazing. But I think it's like when you're wanting to start something and you have to work crazy hours and whatever it is, nothing about the culture and the way it's set up and the hours and the long lunches and all of that, [00:38:00] supports that anyway.
Sophie: But then also just I think the attitude and the sort of puzzlement of people around you is what I say. That's
Speaker 3: that's totally what it is. We have to like, explain ourselves a lot. Yeah. I, I
Sophie: And I'm like, I, I'm not explaining myself. I'm doing what I'm doing, but it is what they gonna do.
Sophie: It's really, it's wild. And I've a lot of my friends who live in, , certainly places like Italy or Spain, they say the exact same thing. So, you know, just, that's, that's probably the one I will probably always grapple with a bit, be just because, '
Speaker 3: cause you're a busy body.
Sophie: Yeah. Um, and the other one that's really, I don't know if I'll ever be able to get totally aligned with this, is the customer service realities.
Sophie: Customer service just exists at about 10% of what it exists in America. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. But it's more rare and it's definitely more of a fight most of the time. The French are famous for saying like, papa, like it's not possible.
Sophie: It's
Speaker 3: possible we can do it.
Sophie: Yeah. And then you have to fight and say, Nope. Like you can [00:39:00] do it and you will. And essentially it's sort of like they're calling your bluff if you're gonna get too annoyed or give up. But if you stand there and you know, you stay in their face long enough, then they'll, you know, in a, in a polite way.
Sophie: 'cause they can always, if you're like, that's the other thing, like the customer's not always right. And if you piss someone off, then they can just drop you in two seconds. They will not care and you'll never hear from them again.
Sophie: Totally true. So you
Sophie: still have to be very, kind and sweet and come at them with like a lot of honey, like catching those knees with honey.
Speaker 3: That's really true. There's good customer service at the places that you would expect it to be. That, you know, a, a good amount of restaurants, obviously hotels and places that are Oh, yeah,
Sophie: because they're
Speaker 3: tourism focused. It's
Sophie: tourism
Speaker 3: of course. Um, so they exist there. But that's a big difference between, you know, if you're just traveling or if you're moving.
Speaker 3: Because again, the, you know, we've [00:40:00] talked about, and we'll probably talk about it, the language barrier, which is a tricky thing, but the amount of times I've been hung up on, on a phone call, because I'm just trying to slow the situation down. If you've ever seen Billy Madison, there's a scene where he's in this like academic competition and one of the things is to learn French.
Speaker 3: And he's got this guy speaking to him like super fast and he is like. Sorry, I don't understand a thing you said. Can you repeat that? And then he just says it again in the exact same speed and he is like, oh, okay. That is me like 85% of the time. Like people say something and it's super machine gun fast French.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, huh. And then I ask him to say it again and they do. And I'm like, you didn't slow down at all. I just asked you to say it slowly and you didn't do it at all. And it's pretty funny
Sophie: if you ever, by the way, if you don't know this, if you need someone to slow down, you say Domo, which means sweetly, like speak sweetly to me.
Speaker 3: Which is [00:41:00] also what I yell at the twins all the time when I think they're about to start hitting each other. I'm like, too small.
Sophie: Yeah, that too.
Speaker 3: Get more gentle.
Sophie: But that is such a hard one 'cause it's like not only are they only open certain amount of hours, but then you walk in and like something doesn't necessarily get done.
Sophie: And that's just another reason why, just to expect everything just moves so much slower.
Sophie: We
Sophie: talk about this a lot, like convenience, throw it out the door. It doesn't exist here, but in its place there are a lot of other wonderful things, but just know it's just not part of the culture. So something else too, and this may not pertain to everyone, but I think it will pertain to a lot of our listeners, is parenting in France. I mean, sometimes I feel like this could be a whole episode on its own. It might be down the
Sophie: road, but
Sophie: The French parenting style is so different than Americans and I don't know if that matters as much because I think the way everyone wants to parent to each their own, I mean, 'cause there's many ways people [00:42:00] parent in every country, but I think what is interesting is that like for instance, when I take the kids to the park and I mean granted my kids are little, but I'm definitely more, I feel like I'm being more of like a helicopter mom.
Sophie: Whereas like I'll just see French parents and they're just like chilling on a bench, being like whatever. But that's their vibe though, because they really have an emphasis more on like just being independent and they're a lot less cuddly with their kids. That's something that I noticed, immediately when I would go and pick the kids up from their daycare, their crush is like when I would come in.
Sophie: I would have my arms just fully out, spread a big smile on my face and they would just run to me and just embrace. And that is not really what happens here.
Sophie: I'm not saying they aren't warm with their children in their own ways, but it's just a different way of [00:43:00] showing it , but yeah, but I think it's just, it's wild because it sort of is like, I would just say for any American, it's off putting it first, I think, because you're just so used to people being a little bit more like open arms involved, enthusiastic, and the park thing, you'll think, okay, I guess they're just letting their kids like run like maniacs.
Sophie: But I think because the whole idea is that they're really trying to emphasize independence and they're really into. Manners and being calm and having patience so that, I think they're sort of letting their kids figure that out a bit on their own, because it's true. It's like whenever you, I mean, French kids are at restaurants all the time.
Sophie: They're out late and they mostly behave really, really well. I'm not saying you're not gonna see a meltdown from time to time, but. It's like we still haven't figured that with our kids and it's probably 'cause there's a little too American and they're a little too crazy. But yeah, it still kind of gives me an anxiety attack, like when we take them to lunch or dinner.
Sophie: But we're doing it [00:44:00] so it's good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and, and when we do take them out, we only choose the places that are like the most cramped and we have to go inside.
Sophie: Definitely. We're really, really good at that.
Speaker 3: Definitely helps with the anxiety, let me tell you.
Sophie: But something to really also just like plan and think, you know, think on before you move is, you know, wherever you're at, it's a really long process to find the right daycare crush, to find the right school, and also just all the paperwork you have to fill out a lot of times.
Sophie: It's kind of obviously the same in the US but it's, but I think it's just way more paperwork is what I'm saying and a lot more to prove, especially if you are, a foreigner. So just being aware of all those things is really, really important too. Yeah.
Sophie: That's kind of what I wanted to touch on, but then a couple other things that I feel like are just wild things that you wouldn't expect that I think are just important to talk about. [00:45:00] One, I remember when I was in school, years and years ago, I'm not gonna age myself out too bad, but I remember learning that Americans need like a lot more personal space and that a lot of other countries do not need that same, and that is something that now at the age that I'm at, I, and you know.
Sophie: I don't know how much assimilating I can do with that. And it still really bothers me because I just, I need, I need a solid three feet. And that does not happen because it's, their culture doesn't
Speaker 3: happen on market days.
Sophie: Yeah. I mean, people are just be aware that people are going to be in your space and it's very normal because for them, it's not being in someone's space.
Sophie: I think they need about 10 inches tops,
Speaker 3: if that, if you're not, if you're at the market at any given time, if you were to call my name and I look up, I could probably be the front person in a prom photo with somebody behind me. Like it's so jam packed and [00:46:00] no fear and walk in and Sophie's like, yeah, I got a short, uh, I got a short fuse for this one.
Speaker 3: So let's get it out, get in, get out, get what we need, let's go.
Sophie: Yeah. Whether it's someone that, it feels like they're like lurking behind you and you turn around and you're just like, oof. I just need more space. Or if it's the other thing too, when you're driving. They're like on your ass 24 7.
Sophie: It's like they, they might be slow. They're either, I feel like on the road they're either really slow or they're on your ass. So it just, again, it just feels like they're, they just don't have a lot of personal space. So just, you know, something to note. The other thing that's really weird too, that I thought a lot of people don't talk about this, and it's really important actually, is that where bank accounts in the us, I mean of course they're monitored to a certain degree.
Sophie: And they really know when you move a lot of money in because they want to like take advantage of it with like loans or you know, just other ways they, a bank can make money. It is the opposite [00:47:00] here where they, it is almost like Big Brother when you have money in your account, they're constantly watching what's going into your account.
Sophie: And I've had many friends who if they have certain amounts going in, it will trigger kind of an immediate audit from the bank and they'll question you, well why was it this much and where was it coming from and why are you getting paid this much for
Speaker 3: that? How often is this gonna happen?
Sophie: Yeah. And so people are really wary of it, which is another reason why I think so many people like to be paid in cash because A, I'm sure they're, you know, maybe not dealing with taxes. Who knows? I'm not implicating anything allegedly. And then just, I think also just still getting used to the fact that it's like cash everywhere and you almost still get harassed sometimes if you don't have cash on you.
Sophie: And I'm just like, I'm sorry, is it not 2025? What are we doing here? I still cannot believe that in 2025 everything is [00:48:00] still so like cash heavy here. Uh, like it kind of blows my mind.
Sophie: When we talked with my cousin who lives in Sweden and it's the opposite where people do not have cash. And they look at you weird. It's everything is electronic now, and they're in the future. Yeah. And here it's like, you feel, you do, you can't sleep like you're like 20 or 30 years in the past.
Sophie: But it's like, you almost get like harassed by people if you don't have cash on you, whether it's a cab driver. I mean, I've had like cab drivers scream at me in Paris about not having cash on me. And I'm like, are you for real? And then also, you know, like if we go to the market and there's certain vendors that, you know, sometimes cash only, cash only, but not even that.
Sophie: It's like, you know, they might accept cards for a minute, but then they'll switch back to cash. And even though you've been using their card, they're kind of pissed that you don't have cash on you. It's very,
Speaker 3: yeah, I've, I've heard, well, if I let you pay with card, then everybody's gonna wanna pay with card.
Speaker 3: I'm like, and,
Sophie: and
Speaker 3: you running a business pro, like people wanna [00:49:00] pay.
Sophie: And the last thing I really wanted to talk about is that, you know, I think anyone who's smart, you need to start learning the language, you know, before you move here.
Sophie: And obviously as you move here. What's really wild, and this is like a very specific, I think to our region or specific, I think to any region that's not Paris, I, the French that I learned way back in the day was way more of a formal style that I think works well with like, yeah, we
Speaker 3: all learn out of the book the
Sophie: Parisian accent.
Sophie: But here, like the accent is so different. The slang is so different that when you think you're like understanding something or, or you think you're like on it, living in the south of France for us, there's so many regional accents. Like I remember, I. I got in the car with this guy who was driving and he's having this conversation with me and he said something and I kind of had to do like the KOA hearing where it finally hit five seconds later.
Sophie: But he's already [00:50:00] looking at me like, you don't understand this. And I was like, I, I told him in French. I said, I do understand, but you know what? It's your accent. I'm so sorry. 'cause I don't know. You know, it's, it's the way if you came to America and you, I mean, I don't even know what is the most accent list or like typical American accent, but it's gonna sound different.
Sophie: If you're going to like Staten Island in New York, it's gonna sound different if you're gonna be certainly in like Louisiana. Oh my gosh. I think it's just really trying to catch. All of those kind of accents and like idioms and just the way they like shorten things and their slang and 'cause to me in, in Paris, I pick up on a lot more.
Sophie: So if you're not moving to Paris, like just know this is probably gonna be a reality for you. I pick up on so much more and I am able to really function way better in Paris speaking French everywhere versus down here. I just feel like it's one whole run on sentence. [00:51:00]
Speaker 3: It really is. And
Sophie: like for instance, like they, like if they're saying we, they say we.
Sophie: And instead of saying like they say shepa and just things like that, it's just, it's. Everything's like shortened and it, so it's wild trying to fully understand and explain things. So just know that might be a reality too, depending on, on where you're moving. So, yeah,
Speaker 3: and I got corrected by my daughter tonight on pronunciation, and I think that, oh, you did?
Sophie: I forgot about this. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And it, and it happens a lot. And actually I think back, I will say that the one thing about going through the language learning is, I mean, humility is the king of survival. Yeah. Like
Sophie: you can't have pride about it. Just you're feel like an idiot every day
Speaker 3: that you screwed it up.
Sophie: No, my parents walked into a cheese store wanting goat cheese, and they kept saying, we want the, you know, we want like a kilo, or not a kilo, but like, you know, whatever [00:52:00] amount of chef, which in Paris you could say, you know, reev show like a, you know, you want like a beautiful, like, it's
Speaker 3: a hot,
Sophie: hot goat cheese salad.
Sophie: Chev
Speaker 3: show is hot goat cheese.
Sophie: But here you could even say chef, like, just have, it's like the R is very like, you know, silent. But here this woman could not understand my parents because they really weren't like emphasizing the R. So finally she figured it out and she was like, oh, chefs, chefs.
Sophie: And you're like, oh my God. So it's just, it's Well,
Speaker 3: and it's, it's funny because like, it's almost like. They're just deliberate. E either they're deliberately not going the extra mile. Oh, for sure. Not even mile for sure. A couple meters to just understand like, okay, your pronunciation, pronunciation case in point is garbage.
Speaker 3: But I get what you're saying. I get what you're trying to say. And just speaking [00:53:00] back, like, they don't do that. They don't let me off the hook with that.
Sophie: No.
Speaker 3: Um, it's pretty funny.
Sophie: Yeah. So, so all that to say, we do still want to, you know, explain to people that there are so many pros that outweigh the cons.
Sophie: A lot of these things that we talk about, you can turn them into a pro for yourself as long as, I mean, they're not
Speaker 3: that serious, right? It's just funny observations. But
Sophie: they can be. But they
Speaker 3: can be.
Sophie: But what I'll say is that, you know, the more open, the more willing you are to surrender.
Sophie: You can turn any of these into a major pro for yourself, but just know that, I mean, essentially listen to this episode. Listen to all of these things, and if you're okay with all this, then you are ready to roll. You are ready to move to France. But just know that, you know, if you're not okay with these things and you don't think you will ever be, then maybe this might not be the place you wanna end up moving to.
Sophie: Just come here for lots of holidays. Fair point. Yeah, good point. So it's been a wild journey. There's been peaks, there's been valleys, it's just a never ending journey [00:54:00] of finding ourselves and surrendering to what may be and just being more open, but knowing that, you know, it's just, it's not perfect all the time.
Sophie: And that's okay. So thank you so much to all of you for listening. We have some really fun episodes coming up, especially in just in time for the holidays, so stay tuned with that and we will see you all next week.
Speaker 3: Love y'all.
Sophie: Bye.