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NowLearning 2.0 goes live on Monday, January 17, 2022 and CJ & The Duke spoke with Mark Scott and Jim Dlugosinski about it.
We discuss new key features for ServiceNow learners, customers, and partners. We talk about the hardest challenges and brightest future for the NowLearning platform.
Authentic, Authoritative, Unapologetic ServiceNow commentary by Cory "CJ" Wesley and Robert "The Duke" Fedoruk
[00:00:00] Duke: Now that we figured out where the record button is, Corey, what are we talking about today?
[00:00:06] Cory: All right. Aside from, , how do we work this thing after 51 episodes, uh, duke today, we're talking about now learning to dot. Oh.
[00:00:13] Duke: Awesome. And we have two very special guests. We have the man who needs no introductions. Mr. Mark Scott. And we have Jim do go Sinsky Duco Sinskey
[00:00:23] Jim: You nailed it. That's perfect. You're one of the family now.
[00:00:27] Duke: the ELA silent. Okay.
[00:00:29] Cory: All right.
[00:00:31] Duke: All right. So first question about now learning 2.0, do you have a course that shows Corey and I where the record button is?
[00:00:39] Jim: I am. I'm going to work on that as soon as we're done here, I think, probably about a 32nd intro course will help you guys with this.
[00:00:46] Duke: I'm going to cert that on my LinkedIn
[00:00:48] Cory: Oh, absolutely.
[00:00:49] Duke: yeah.
[00:00:51] Jim: Oh, this is a main line. Now this will be a main line. Yeah, we're going to have you go through the whole spiel.
[00:00:55] Duke: Oh, before you get your certified admin.
[00:00:57] Jim: There you go. There you go.
[00:00:59] Duke: that. Appreciate that. Okay. So, Monday, is it right? Monday's a
[00:01:04] Jim: big day. The 17th. Yeah, it's a, it's a full known too. So we, we picked the perfect opportunity to, uh, to try to jinx this whole thing.
[00:01:11] Duke: at all.
[00:01:12] Mark: almost Friday the 13th. It's almost we're. One-off.
[00:01:15] Duke: but for the audience, Monday is a big day for what.
[00:01:18] Jim: So anyone familiar with the current version of now learning, and some of the shortcomings they've encountered over the last couple of years, a lot of that goes away on Monday. everything from our search engine to how we're presenting paths on the screen. When you first log in, a lot of, , feedback that we've received over the last couple of years has been taken to heart with this effort.
And we're just excited to finally show this off to the world. This is been about a year of, effort, with the entire development team, product management team, the project management teams. And, uh, we're just really excited to get this out the door and, and start having our customers hit this up and tell us how we can still make it better for them.
[00:01:55] Mark: .
Yeah, it's been a. It's been a year. It's been a labor of love for a year now. I think Jim, when we first started talking about this, it was, it was about this time. but yeah, we're, we're super excited. I mean, it's going to be, it's gonna be a lot of fun. , it's, Florida ceiling redesign and you guys are gonna definitely see that.
[00:02:10] Jim: And, you know, if you hold them side by side mark, I think you will see the DNA of one point. Oh yeah. we're not completely yanking the rug out, but I think the quality of life enhancements that we're adding. And again, I keep coming back to search because quite honestly, that's the one thing that we hear most about from customers is, the less than stellar search experience today.
I think they're going to find when they first hit that the first time they're like, okay, they have been listening to the customer, they have actually done something about this. And so I'll be, I'll be watching closely what kind of feedback we get on that? The next few.
[00:02:40] Duke: So I know we're at the disadvantage of audio only, but can you articulate some of the changes you've made to.
[00:02:46] Jim: sure. So today, when, when you do a search, you, you get a bit of a mixed bag. we'll use service now, fundamentals as an example. So if you were to type in service now, fundamentals, you get a confusing set of results. A lot of time, customers are either looking for the live class, which is that three-day effort or the on demand class.
But there's a couple of other entries that also referenced service now, fundamentals that tend to come to the surface first it's things like that, that just make search a real chore on the current version of now. With 2.0, the search engine itself has been revamped and what we're tying in with more of the, corporate universal search now.
So we're able to throw a lot more data at the actual search results, rather than just looking at just a short list of metadata that we're doing on one point. And it's almost to a point where I don't want to spoil some of this because the moment you interact with it, you're going to see immediately.
Okay. I can actually find what I'm looking for now, rather than combing through, , 10 pages and maybe find what you're looking for on page nine, , which quite often happens unfortunately today. So, it's going to be good. It's going to be a very interesting, uh, upgrade for that.
[00:03:53] Cory: So this sounds like to me, like one of those upgrades that needs to know release notes, kind of like you just drop it in place and then people go in and they touch it. They, and they're like, oh,
[00:04:04] Jim: Exactly.
[00:04:04] Cory: you've been doing.
[00:04:06] Jim: there, there will be no handholding. Yeah, we didn't, over-complicate this thing. We break it into achievements and learning content so that it's, it's easier to distinguish what you're looking at. And we don't throw a ton of extra metadata around that, such that, you know, I think we had, the rating star system showing up there.
We showed some other metadata that customers just really didn't care about. So we've streamlined it from that perspective. And, , like I said, I think just really dependent upon what the customer's looking for. And as our search engine learns more about the customer and as the system itself learns more, , we'll also be able to serve as more recommendations , that are relevant to that person.
So that's another big thing we're tying in with this.
[00:04:42] Mark: I had also say Corey, like there's going to be a lot of people that go, wow, that's what you can do with the platform. That's what you can do with the service portal. That's what you can do with service now. Right. Jim, I love his description of it's going to be really user intuitive, but at the same time it looks really, really good. mean, it honestly, it's one of those things where I go, wow, that's service now. Like that's.
[00:05:03] Jim: Yes. I agree with you on that, you know, to, to today the, UI while, fine for its time, it just sort of
[00:05:10] Cory: Um,
[00:05:10] Jim: felt like its own thing in the service now ecosystem. Right. And now when you come out of this, you feel like, Hey, I'm actually in service. Now. This is the real deal here. And, visually, like I said, you'll see a relation to the current design, but it's just tighter and cleaner.
And like I said, more customers.
[00:05:27] Cory: and so the M one dot O experience run on service now?
[00:05:31] Jim: Yeah, you said does.
[00:05:33] Cory: why didn't I know that. So I
[00:05:35] Duke: I mean, did you look at it?
[00:05:39] Jim: I can check and see if you've been in recently. Give me a moment here. I'll take a look.
[00:05:43] Cory: it's probably been about a week and a half. but yeah, I think it's really cool though, that, you know, is, is now on now. Right? Like I think I heard that, uh, one of the last 15 knowledges or so, and, um, I think that emphasis though, sometimes. gets lost. Maybe, maybe it's just me. Maybe it's just, maybe it just gets lost on me, but I love that you guys eat your own dog food, right?
Like you build on your own platform, you deploy these things. And like you were just saying like, in a way , that exposes what service now can do to folks who are used to it only do only seeing it, do you know these other things. Right. And there's very kind of standard way.
[00:06:20] Jim: That's a great, that's a great point. The, eating your own dog food. That's something that we talk about quite a lot, you know, internally here at service. Now I think part of the problem with the existing now learning solution, if you want to call it a problem, is that when people think, okay, I need to get trained up on some service now, knowledge, where do I go?
I don't think we're quite there yet. We're now learning is the first thing that comes to mind. I think with the 2.0. You know what I mean? I think there, I think that the 2.0 release will start to now start to change the hearts and minds of people who have to be trained and get up to speed on things.
They're going to understand. Yep. Now learning now, learning now learning. And that's what I want, you know, as the product manager here, I just, that's one goal that I've got here that just needs to happen with this release. And I think we're set up pretty well.
[00:07:06] Cory: Okay. Can I expand on that a little bit too? I get, I get asked a lot by folks who are looking to join this ecosystem, right? Like, you know, how do I get involved in service and how do I get learned up on it? You know, where do I start? And, you know, yeah. to your point, right.
I never start by saying, yeah, go to now, learn. I'll take it back. There was one point, during the pandemic where you guys were offering the fundamentals for. And I would just send people there. I was like, just go here, do this, spin up the PDI as per the, instructions and Nicole and the course.
And talk to me when you're done and ready to take the test. there was that one point there were that I would, just funnel in everyone there, but you know, when it kind of gets to the point of learning, what it takes to be like a service now. engineer developer, architect, admin, whatever in the ecosystem.
Right. Is that also something that you guys are targeting? What now?
[00:07:54] Jim: Absolutely. we took a stab at trying to help with that, with the visual learning paths and whether or not you've seen those. , there's a get certified link along the top of the current, , now learning solution. And , we made some good progress there, but it was a little challenging to keep those things updated.
There wasn't a lot of flexibility that we were able to build into. for example, for like an implementer path, , we would tell you what the prerequisite courses were. We would tell you what the, mandatory courses were. And then that was pretty much it. We would give you, perhaps a link to, the exam blueprint or how to prep for the exam.
And then a link that , would take you over to actually sign up for the exam. Once you've met all the conditions. But one major thing that we left off was the, , also , the, the recommended courses, right? Th come along with that, they're not required, they're not prerequisites. , but there, there are still important to, to fully understanding the path you're on to become certified.
, and that's something we'll be addressing with 2.0, not perfect perhaps out of the gate. there's a lot more to consider there. A lot of different personas that we're trying to go after. , but certainly a step in the right direction, to take care of that.
[00:08:58] Duke: I've got to tell you, the get certified link has been, oh, well, I make no secret of having had a wealth of trouble with now learning when I first started it. But. the get certified link is what keeps me coming back to now learning, not just for myself, but as Corey said, the old timers, we get a lot of questions about how do I become a better this or that in service now?
Or I have this many years of training, I still want to grow, how do I grow? And I'm just like, Hey, listen, here's this get certified link, like pick which one of those jobs you think you're going to be best. And click that job and it's basically like it maps it out for you. And it is just, it's reduced my ad hoc coaching time spent by, an order of magnitude because now I just have that link with a canned response.
Ready. I'm like, if that's the question you're asking me, just go here and do that. I love that link.
[00:09:48] Jim: fantastic. No, that's good. That validates what, our thought process was around that. And again, while it definitely makes it a bit easier, we, we know that there's room for improvement there. And I think you'll see that with 2.0 that we're making that a better. , more useful, more intuitive experience and we've got plans to make it even better.
I'm sure you're familiar with now creators and we're doing something pretty cool around that here in 2022, we're taking a whole new approach to how we recommend you take a path to achieve a certification. And it's going to be really interesting. I can't say too much more. But there's a lot of real smart people looking at that right now.
And I, from what I have seen so far, I'm excited. I can't wait. I'm, I'm going beyond the launch on Monday. I'm talking about what we're coming up with the roadmap here this year, but, there's going to be some very cool stuff coming this year for us.
[00:10:34] Cory: Marcus sounds like you, one of those really smart people that are working on this.
[00:10:39] Mark: neither
[00:10:39] Jim: don't think I saw a mark on the invite actually, but that's okay. We'll get them on
[00:10:42] Mark: what no, come on. I've been, I've been talking to you. I I know what's going on.
[00:10:48] Duke: You said that there were some other personas that you were looking to put on there. , are you allowed to give any of those away or.
[00:10:54] Jim: Um, well, some of these things you wouldn't really encounter, unless for example, you were a partner. , so we, deal with, , helping our partners with their sales staff. Pre-sales and our sales folks. So there's a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes with our partner programs as just an example.
, but you know, system administrators, certainly app developers, all different implementation specialists and application specialists will still be represented. I'm not certain what else? The, uh, the persona roster will look like beyond that , for this year. , but I, I know it's something that a number of teams are looking at closely and, we'll be in a position that we can facilitate that now much easier than, than.
[00:11:29] Duke: We'll drag you guys into a controversy. Corey and I got involved in, we have an episode, a few episodes back. We'll put a link in the description below, is. , for some reason this year, BA has been the word on everybody's lips, How do I be a better BA or I'm a functional BA, I want to be a technical BA or I'm a technical BA I want to be a functional BA.
And I'm just like, what on earth are you people talking about? and Corey and I differ on this a little bit, but at least from my perspective, I'm like, listen, go to the, get certified. Do you see anything like a certified BA in there? No, because it's basically encapsulated in with the other types of work.
Pick one of these and go forward.
[00:12:04] Jim: Yep. I hear what you're saying. I'm giving that some thought that I, I don't think I've, I've encountered that myself in terms of customer feedback. but I could see where that might be. It is such a generality, right. Or BSA, even for that matter, I think there's that preconceived notion of, what those roles are.
But, especially now with most people working from home and the world changing on how we do our jobs like this, I think that starts to really broaden really fast. So you need to narrow that down, I think a little bit. , and I think that's what we're doing currently , with , our personas.
But again, nothing would surprise me. I'm sure there's opportunities to go on a bunch of different directions, as long as they're not confusing or diluting what we're already doing. I think that's, that's the important part.
[00:12:43] Duke: . I can't say enough how much I like this because it puts the whole rest of now learning in perspective. I mean, before this, it was basically land on now. Learning is like,
[00:12:52] Jim: Here's a thousand different, uh, courses, right? Yeah. The endless, endless scrolling. And I am, I can share that with you right now. The endless scrolling has gone away. Uh, we have, we have done away with that. the one thing I was joking with the dev team about when we went live with that solution with the endless scrolling is, , let's say you scroll down through 30, 40 pages and you find what you're looking for and you want to do a preview.
You can't do like the middle mouse click, right. To open up a new tab, to take a look at it. You actually have to click that thing. And if you don't click on the right spot, you end up clicking something else. You've got to start back over. It's quality of life, things like that, that have been driving a lot of us crazy for a long time that have been addressed.
And it's, it's just those little things that you just suddenly realize like, Hey, I'm not scrolling endlessly. All of a sudden this is fantastic. So I'm excited to just about that. I mean,
[00:13:42] Cory: Can I
[00:13:42] Jim: know, I'm easily impressed, so.
[00:13:44] Cory: No, that's not an easy, uh, impressed thing like That's a major, I am super stoked about that, Because , there's nothing worse than scrolling, scrolling, looking for that one thing that you're looking for, finding what you think might be that thing, but you're not sure not being able to click into it, until like a separate tab having to take the.
Dive into it, knowing that if it's the wrong thing, you're going to hit that back button and end up right back at the beginning. There's nothing worse than that.
[00:14:11] Jim: That is total frustration. And, you know, unfortunately, uh, we've been guilty of that. I'm totally transparent about our flaws, I mean, it's the way we can change it. We can iterate, but sometimes certain things have to sit there for a while due to other priorities.
that is one that we're all just overjoyed to get rid of. So that's, that's a huge thing.
[00:14:28] Mark: Well, and I think, I think what people may not realize as we use now, learning internally for trainings to rightly that there are internal trainings that people take on. So it's not just that, Hey, here you go. You guys deal with it and we're going to continue working on the back end. That's never ever what happens.
Right. We're using the platform day in and day out. Just as much as everybody else's. I still have to go take my, Delta certifications, just like everybody else. Does they make me do it?
[00:14:54] Cory: oh, that's sucks.
[00:14:55] Mark: I know. I know. I, I mean, you know, it's, I thought I would've gotten away from That but that's the reality of the situation is you want to stay up to date and keep people honest about their certifications while we're going to keep testing them. And even me, even the person that's building it is not immune.
So
[00:15:11] Cory: That should be like a switch, like a service now employee switch, like boop auto certified and everything like that should be like a perk of the job.
[00:15:20] Mark: it. No, one's done it, but I've pitched.
[00:15:23] Jim: my goodness. Yeah. Can you imagine
[00:15:25] Duke: on it. Can controversy land here? I love Delta certs. especially for the certified admin, I love him. And usually because I get there and it's like, I don't know the answer to any of these, the platforms that wide now, but what it affords me to do is like, I know how to learn on service now, which is the most important thing.
And so. It comes up and it says, . I'll actually come up with a specific example.
[00:15:47] Mark: Alright, are you at, do you have a pool of these questions?
[00:15:50] Duke: Yes.
[00:15:51] Mark: Wow. Do you need a
[00:15:54] Duke: because I'll tell you I'll get to that. Okay. So like a good question is, how can users respond and interact with agents at their convenience through virtual agent? I read that and I'm like, ah, I'm not sure. Cause I haven't done a whole lot of virtual agent work. And so like I'm looking on docs either for virtual agent or for any of the answers. And what it forces me to do is basically learn that detail on the spot.
But then I get curious and then I'm like, an hour on docs just on that topic alone. And so like, I've taught, I've already got like a ton of 2022 video ideas just from getting my Delta cert done.
[00:16:29] Cory: Yeah. So see, I was going to disagree with you about this Delta thing duke initially, right? Like I was like, what the hell are you talking about?
[00:16:37] Mark: Somebody has to, somebody.
[00:16:40] Cory: But, you know, the rabbit hole aspect of that I totally agree with, because that has happened to me as well, diving into it, when you get in the certain like, oh, this is a new feature, this is pretty cool. And you leave that tab open. Right. And then you come back to it and next thing you know, right.
you're treating this thing, like the old school Wiki and it's three hours later
[00:16:58] Duke: Yup.
[00:16:58] Cory: and
[00:16:59] Duke: it leaves you alone with your own shame.
[00:17:03] Mark: That's what I
[00:17:04] Jim: shame factor. Yeah, we have an internal, we have an internal.
[00:17:07] Mark: all positive on this. I'm I'd read these questions and I go, you call yourself a service now, developer, like you should know the answer to this. It's like, oh man.
[00:17:14] Duke: is knew that I didn't know the answer to this question. I would be cast out forth with.
[00:17:19] Cory: Um,
[00:17:20] Jim: You know, that's, that's one of the nice things about having the backend access on now learning, I could get a look at what the cert team has put together for the deltas and for the main lines for, for exam questions. And it's no joke. people talk about, the value of service now, certifications in the.
there's a reason for that. we don't just, treat you with kid gloves here. We take this pretty seriously. And I think what the 2.0 release. There's more legitimacy now that we're introducing into the market that people like, yeah, these guys are serious. And even though that, nowadays we have the certification maintenance fees in place and there is costs for content.
there's a reason for that, because if you come through this and you obtain one of these certifications, you've got value in the market and you can pretty much write your own ticket. I mean, it's a pretty slick deal.
[00:18:03] Cory: Yeah, that's, a really good point. Right. And then I contrast that. Old-school MCSC , which I have one of those right. Kind of data myself. and while I did get mine, legitimately, legitimately, most people at around that time did not right. the whole concept of brain dumps and brain cramps and what all of that kind of crap.
And, yeah, so I do like the fact that the certifications, what service now actually means something right. And that they carry some weight when I'm talking to clients and potential clients about how I can help. that's a great job. That's a great, that's a great point too.
[00:18:35] Jim: Nice.
[00:18:35] Mark: we go back just a second to something that Jim said, because I just want to point it out. Jim said that, he keeps in contact with the content team cause he gets a look at all the answers. You know, when I bring someone on someone's podcast, it's the guy literally with the answer.
So I just don't call to make sure you guys know that like, um,
[00:18:52] Jim: No, I stay away from the answer keys. I will look at the questions. I I'll, I'll take a look and see what's coming up for a given Delta, but I do try to keep away from the answer keys and does not deal with any of that. The cert team pretty much keeps that under lock and key, but, it's there. If we needed to get to it, it is there.
[00:19:09] Cory: And if this was a video podcast, this will be where we cut to the wink right now.
[00:19:17] Jim: And the, uh, secret go-fund me page that we have. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:19:21] Mark: Chris $20 bill might change that morality. I dunno.
[00:19:26] Duke: 20 whole dollars,
[00:19:28] Jim: Very nice.
[00:19:29] Cory: I mean, it is 20, 20, 20, 22 now. I mean, 20 bucks is a lot of money.
[00:19:33] Duke: like five reasons and an almond.
[00:19:35] Mark: Yeah, the vending machine.
[00:19:39] Cory: So this has been a year long journey for you guys. What's been the hardest part of it.
[00:19:44] Jim: Well, mark, I'm going to defer to you on that for the initial pass. I I've probably got a different take than you do, , on that.
[00:19:50] Mark: Oh man. Hardest thing I would say is probably. Now learning is in my opinion, one of the most available service now instances in existence, right? It's 24, 7, 7 days a week. Our user base has everyone on earth. Everything we do has to be built for scale. And, and I mean, massive scale again, we don't have a limit to our user base. And yeah, I know it's not every person on earth, but we have to think in that kind of dimension. No, I know. I know. But we have to
[00:20:17] Jim: This is why I deferred to you, mark. This is why.
[00:20:19] Mark: Yeah. Well, yeah, so it's keeping scale in mind in my opinion, right.
Be it technical scale, be it, how do we train every other service now person that goes to now learning how to use this, what we can, right. It's gotta be intuitive enough for them to be able to use it right out of the box. that to me has been the biggest challenge I think, is keeping that in mind and keeping that, that.
[00:20:41] Jim: And I'll second that for me on the product management side with my team, I think the toughest thing for us is just basically pausing any net new work. The mandate we basically were given for this, project was to, at the very least meet parody with 1.0, so that any of the key functions that we have there, make sure that we port those over, improve them, where we can.
It wasn't a situation where like, okay, we have a clean slate, we can completely rethink what we're doing with this. there, there were constraints around this project. And so I think my team, we are just, rip roaring, ready to go for 20, 22 roadmap, brand new things coming in the pipeline.
And now with 2.0, it's just going to make that much easier for us to do. So this, yeah. We're talking a full year here. It's, it's been tough kind of sitting on the sidelines to a degree. you know, as we maintain requests coming in from around the organization, and just wanting to get that new stuff done.
So we are ready to rock and roll. We just have to get through this weekend and get things stable and, then we'll be, back to the races.
[00:21:40] Duke: I want to get back to cause at the start, we said that there is some significant improvements to search, but what else can people expect? I understand you have, , a bunch of features at the. Go, system's going to be really interested in.
[00:21:51] Jim: yeah, the w with the partner system, you know, again, there, there are a lot of specific needs. Their own catalogs, they have their own content that they have available to them. they participate in something similar to deltas, but they're called accreditations, to make sure that sales reps are up to speed on the latest platform changes so very closely related with Delta's.
I think the way they access that. a bit streamlined, a bit easier to understand, you know, heavy focus on achievements. I think we have used the word paths and, the visual learning paths where now we're referring to it more as achievements as, as you work towards, any of your certifications.
So there's. Excuse me, some slight verbiage changes that you might see throughout the site. and certainly we're, we're not throwing as much information at you initially as when you log in and get to the homepage. , we're not , just bombarding you and leaving you to your own devices where we're trying to hold their hand a little.
, for example, the first time you log into 2.0, you're presented with a dropdown that shows, , which various things you're interested in, you know, various topics or perhaps you're in sales, perhaps you're a developer, whatever path you're on right now. And we try to tailor them the recommendations of what you're seeing on the homepage from.
we know that the home page that you're going to see coming Monday is not done yet in terms of some of the features that we also want to tack onto this, but it's certainly a bit cleaner and well, not a bit, quite a bit cleaner than what you deal with today, on a 1.0, and it's, I think initially you're going to see it and go, wow.
Okay. I get this, this makes sense. This really feels like a learning experience platform and that's, that's what I'm hearing.
[00:23:21] Duke: . Is there anything in 2.0, that's going to help. The problem that we have in the ecosystem. We're basically like maybe being young and naive. I registered under like my corporate account and then I switched jobs.
[00:23:35] Jim: account management. Yeah, that is, that is something I'm sorry, mark. If you, if you've got a take on that, please feel free, but I can say that out of the gate, there will still be a manual process for us behind the scenes. but we are working on, a project right now, actually. account management a bit easier, especially in that situation where you're at one company moved somewhere else.
You no longer have access to that email address at your old company, , to make things a bit easier. And mark again, you may have more insight on that piece than I do.
[00:24:03] Mark: , I mean, there's no additional information. That's exactly what I was going to say. I am personally like kind of crusading for this. I've been pushing a lot of these ideas internally where it's like, Hey, we gotta figure this out. and Rob, I know you're a big proponent of fixing this.
Like it's not an unknown problem. it's unfortunately I think, what ends up happening is, It's not just a now learning issue when you, when you kind of look at it too, right. There's account management as a whole. How do. we make sure that you have the same account when you go to now creators that you have is now learning? So that we can co-exist those accounts, right? There's a lot of technically that has to go on in the background to get that to work properly. And I promise you, I know it's been a long time coming, but we've got a mind towards it and we are trying to fix as much of it as possible.
[00:24:41] Cory: So I'm going to say, I like the fact that it is something that's on your radar. Right? I kind of had this issue, happened to me awhile ago and it was a little bit, it wasn't, wasn't really hard to fix because at the time I don't think it was, that I had a whole lot of, I don't know if I had any sorts at the time, uh, think about it.
So it was mainly just about trying to, you know, keep. some profile stuff. so it wasn't a big deal, but I am glad that you are, , keeping this on your radar. Cause I have seen a lot of people complain about it, so yeah. Kudos.
So I guess , my next question. , so you guys would be, from the standpoint , of now learning versus everything else that you could be working on a site of service. Now, why now learning.
[00:25:18] Jim: Now that feels like an ambush question. you know what I think what it really comes down to is when somebody understands what service now is, right? That it's actually a platform and not just a company that, that talks about, Hey, we're in the cloud. I think once they understand what this really is about, the training just comes naturally. And it's like, Hey, where do I go to get this?
Once now, learning is understood that this is the source for training. certainly a lot of other sources out there. I understand that and that's fine. You know, we have a pretty strong community. We have a very strong community. Um, that's very involved and we, you know, we, we want to encourage that, but we also want to make sure that, whatever's being shared out there is.
Number one. and I think once they use now learning and understand really what we're all about and what we provide and that we do listen, you know, we listen to our customer's feedback, we hear it all the time. it quickly becomes like this almost like family unit and, , you , you feel like you're actually part of something.
And, uh, you know, again, training, we all have to do it. You know, I, I know whenever you join a new company, you have to go through the HR orientation and take those, ethics courses and things like that. But I think with what our content teams produce, I think there's such a level, a high level of engagement.
It's very interesting. , and then the stuff they've got planned for 2022 is amazing. I wish I could talk more about that, but, content groups have some really exciting stuff in the wings and , it's, it's just going to be a good thing.
[00:26:39] Cory: Yeah, no. The stuff that you guys are doing is way better than that, compliance crap that, you know, you end up having to do. And yeah, I don't even want to talk about that.
[00:26:49] Mark: I love those videos. Those videos are hilarious. Hi, my name is Hannah, and it's like, just like this monotone, like weird, like, why are you on video? If you didn't want to be doing it? Like, I don't understand why that's the caliber
[00:27:02] Cory: Well,
[00:27:03] Mark: content.
[00:27:04] Cory: it will, the thing is it's always, to me, it's like always largely irrelevant. I'll jump into a project for like three months, right. As a bank. So as a financial institution, halfway through they're like your compliance stuff is overdue. I go in and take a look and this anti-money laundering stuff.
It's like, I don't even know where you guys are. Like I've never seen any of your money So then I spend the next, four hours going through all these videos that are, like you said, hi, I am Mary Jane. I have a suitcase full of $1 million bills. Would you like to take that for me? And I was like, sure. I'll take it.
[00:27:40] Mark: Yeah, It's like, if you had a brain you'd pass the training, it was just so they could stamp that you did it, right. oh man.
[00:27:46] Cory: exactly. Exactly. It's all very logical, you know, reductionist material. That's why I was sending the courses that are produced for now learn a whole nother level, like actually immersive. I really appreciate it. In fact, what I often do, and this is a life hack, what I often do is when I'm going into a new engagement, On the module that I might not have worked on and maybe it was like six or eight months or something like that. So I'm a little rusty I go in and I go into now learning and I find that content around that module and now learning.
And I go through it again, right. Gets me right back up to speed.
[00:28:17] Mark: That's awesome.
[00:28:18] Duke: One thing. I, I love the sales material that you can find. cause it just gets the why to the what.
[00:28:24] Jim: That's an interesting point. I've actually heard folks say that. And I think that, anything that can help you connect those dots, is a step in the right direction. Absolutely.
[00:28:32] Duke: like I said this on a couple of my other videos, but on the delivery side of the house, we spend a lot of time putting credence into the ability to build it or the ability to pay. how much more technical know-how can I get? And that's how I improve. And I'm like, Hey guys, listen, there are people and lots of them that work at service now.
And in the partner ecosystem that with having been on, none of the courses can get somebody to open up a checkbook and write down $1 million. I want that thing.
[00:29:02] Cory: Yeah,
[00:29:03] Duke: And they haven't, they don't know implementation nothing. They've never right. Clicked and saying configure this or that. But they know the reason it exists and they know that that person experiences that and what to say and what ideas to lean into to get somebody to actually spend money.
And that's actually a really difficult thing to do. And it has so much application for the people who actually implement, we are way off course on that story, but, um, I think.
[00:29:32] Mark: I think.
what it really highlights is that Jim and I are owed probably some of those.
[00:29:37] Jim: Yeah, I got to look for a person. I got to look for the percentage numbers. Hey, wait a second. Yeah, we're missing out here.
[00:29:41] Mark: Yeah, that that should go to artwork. but yeah, to go back to Y now learning, right. I've always had that passion of I want to help everybody learn about now learning. Right? to me, it's kind of near and dear to my heart I want everybody to learn service now.
And now learning to me is that tool Here it is. and I hate to say this, but I use the certification process maybe is like a gateway, right? Where I'm like, Hey, are you seriously? I get people that come out of the woodwork and say, Hey, I want to, get a job at service now.
I'm like, cool, go get a certification. You know, it helps me tell who's serious about this. Who's not serious about this.
[00:30:08] Duke: sure it does.
[00:30:09] Mark: At the end of the day, I then go, Hey, Rob, I got this guy, that's got the certification. And you're like, sure, it's your ticket to ride in my opinion.
, once you get your certification, you're ready to go. it doesn't matter what your background is or your technical know-how. If you can pass that test, you know, something, you know, service now and that's, the power of getting the certifications. And that's what now learning really.
[00:30:27] Cory: I'm going to totally agree with you on that. the tests were heart and hard in a good way, right? Like hard in a way that I couldn't just breeze through them. and some of the other, , certifications that I've achieved, right? Like these were questions that I actually have to think about like implementations that I've done or skills or something, and I've read, like, I appreciate that, Because I don't want my time to be wasted. And since, the certifications or requirements for me personally, as like an independent consultant, is part of my business card. And so since I feel like I have to have them, I'm glad that they actually, communicate some.
[00:31:00] Mark: Well, and, Corey, you talked about. MCC. Right. And I'd come up from that world too. Right. I came up from the CS sharp side of things. I don't think I hold a single C-sharp certification. and I did 10 years worth of application development. It didn't matter and I'm not, I'm not saying that Microsoft certifications don't matter, but at the time, I got a job without having a certification because, it was based on the old, way of, Do a test and see how it goes. we don't have to do that anymore. the certification process means something in the service now ecosystem and that's, that's huge. to me that's huge a lot of people go and get a job, a certification. It's like, why? Well, either you're looking for a job or you're looking for a raise, Right. It's not to actually like, pull credence into, , what I'm doing or get. Anything else it's like that these certifications teach you how to get up and running. And then I would be confident in giving anyone a job that said, Hey, I got a certified application developer.
I'm like, cool. You're at the very minimum, a junior developer on a service now team. you know what you're talking.
[00:31:53] Cory: I love that. I love that. I love that. I love the way that you just articulated that, Because for the folks at home listening, not just to folks looking to get a job in a service now ecosystem, but the folks also, higher end in the service now ecosystem, it tells you why you should be looking for these things.
And it tells you exactly what you should expect from resources who have these things, right. that's brilliant. Now I have a question. There's a little bit of a one that's near and dear to my heart. can I get a course as right-click. Right. So one of the things that I remember from my very, very first service now course when it was CIS admin and advanced us admin.
one of the things that the teacher taught me was right. Click on everything. you never know what you can do in a certain place, if you haven't right. Click. I don't think that we teach that often enough and I don't think enough people know about it.
Right? Like the secret merits of the right-click. Can we get a course on that?
[00:32:47] Jim: It's not a bad idea, the insider tips and trick guide to service. Now, , when I first started with the organization two and a half years ago, I was learning all kinds of stuff like that. And honestly, it was, uh, it was a, like a delightful surprise. Every time I came across a new menu, that was like, oh wow.
I can actually do this here. I don't have to go find some other system or some other area to configure it and they come back here. I can do it right here right now and save myself a half hour of hassle. I think it's things like that, that once people understand that the service now platform provides, it's like, wow, this thing is just fantastic.
I love it.
[00:33:18] Cory: Absolutely unlocked so much products.
[00:33:22] Mark: we take a weird side, rabbit hole here, because I want to, point this out because it's a weird phenomenon that I have. , when you get beamed up by the mothership, first of all, nobody internally knows that we all call it the mothership. They have no clue. They think. Like, they have no idea that there's this like another language that we speak. But secondly, I love when I come into, , a team or something like this and they work for service now and they don't, really know the platform. Right. We're pulling people in that don't necessarily know the platform.
And like, I love it when they come to me and they're like, you know what I just learned about I can right. Click and export to CSV right here. And it's like, yeah, you can, it's totally. Isn't that amazing? They're like, yeah. I'm like, we've been doing that for years. And they're like, like, Yeah.
man, like it's, it's been great for a long time.
You're just on board now. it's just been, it's so cool to see people like discover the platform, even though they were.
[00:34:12] Duke: I got to tell you. I love, there's a lot of people. A lot of people who are better at me than better than me at everything. And I have to work alongside them a lot. So it doesn't do much for my ego, but every once in a while I get somebody who's like definitively better at everything.
And they'll like, come across something like, oh, Hey, did you know if you make the variable name the same as the field name on a table, you're building a record producer on that. It auto-fills the field.
[00:34:42] Mark: Just magic. Yeah.
[00:34:43] Duke: Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, no, I totally knew that.
[00:34:48] Jim: I just didn't want to do it for this one.
[00:34:53] Mark: It's like the, let me Google that equivalent. Like I just send them a course on now learning Rome. Like, yeah, dude, not only did I know it, I had this URL cued up, whereas like here it is like,
[00:35:05] Duke: Here's one, what do you think the biggest problem that you solve with this release is.
[00:35:09] Jim: Um, the biggest problem that we solve with this release.
You know what I, I guess I don't think of it in terms of the biggest it's, more like the sheer number of problems that we're trying to solve. The biggest thing, number one is the overall accessibility. and by that, I mean, just to get to the content, I think in years past, we have maybe made it a little bit more difficult than it really needed to be, for folks to find what they need, or at least to understand how they go about fighting.
What they need. again, I'll go back to the visual learning paths that we introduced that were very popular and remain. So, it's a simple thing like that where it's really just, you'll see PDFs floating around, out there that kind of act as an infographic, that show, you know, here's how you handle this certification path or this one.
I think with the 2.0 release we're making it clearer to folks how to actually become certified. There's a real emphasis on that this year for us. And I'm looking forward to getting that initial user feedback, especially compared to the current solution. because I think we've done a pretty solid job of, of fixing or rather improving that situation.
apart from that, the problems may be are small. But they're all over the place in terms of, , just general accessibility in getting in there, getting what you got to get done. you know, I think you'll see too, an improvement in content. Overall, our content teams have been working furiously this past year to really up their game when it comes to content and end of the day, that's really what it is.
you're only going to get somebody who's an Oz using the search dropdown. that's to be expected in the year 20, 22, but as your content, any good, is it going to keep me engaged? Is it going to keep me focused on what I need to do? I think that's a resounding yes. I think folks are going to be in for a real treat when they're doing this.
, you know, sometimes training , is a chore and you don't want to do it. I think when they're doing it on that learning, they're going to actually enjoy what they're doing. and that to me is solving a very big problem.
[00:36:54] Mark: And let me say that from, this is why I brought Jim on, because that's what the end-users want to know is, what did we solve these problems? I'm in it. So I'm innocent in a situation similar to most people that are actually listening and are the end-users right. we started from scratch on 2.0.
I mean the entire architecture has been completely redone. , we've problem solved in ways. We've never thought that we would end up having to do that. and I'm incredibly proud of this. All our integrations are through flow designer and integration hub as of Monday.
[00:37:24] Cory: Oh,
[00:37:25] Mark: Yeah. So we've adopted flow designer. We've actually went through, this has been in a year, we had to go through an upgrade cycle while in development. there's been things where we were like, Oh, man, Flow designer had the upgrade in Rome where we had air handling.
We had to go back and do all of that again, right? there's so many things under the hood and under the covers that unfortunately, you guys, aren't going to get to see, , but what is going to allow the now learning team to do moving forward is iterate faster and faster and faster because we no longer have an architecture where we're kind of struggling to get features fit in.
We now have a nice modular it's clean it's extensible architecture that we can move along with in, , for years. And, and that's really what to me is the biggest change.
[00:38:08] Cory: That's awesome. , I really appreciate you, articulating that here on this podcast. I'm wondering too, though, is, are you guys planning on like a video on the making of now learning to that? Oh, where you kind of talk a little bit more about.
[00:38:19] Jim: wish I wish we had done that. I
[00:38:21] Mark: knowledge 22.
[00:38:22] Jim: there you go. You're the real war stories, but, I could totally see that though. Mark, like a mini documentary of really what went into this and the innovation. we internally we refer to this as a mini. because we're going from the platform, we're merging it with some other functionality to us.
It was like this big migration, but it really became an implementation in mark. I'm glad you touched on that because at the end of the day, that's really what it is. and the sheer number of problems that have been solved this past year unbelief. And it just fills me with number one humility in front of the dev team and the teams that tested everything and got this thing out the door as fast as they did.
but just setting us up for future success, or I think with the 1.0 solution, we knew that the day was coming where we would have to make some major decisions about how we're really dealing with this stuff. 2.0, man, it really gives us, some new room to work with. And I just can't wait, just, can't wait to get it done.
[00:39:10] Mark: I will. I
[00:39:10] Duke: morning.
[00:39:11] Jim: so right now, let me pull up the blue banner here. Give me just a moment.
[00:39:16] Mark: So while you're doing that, Jim, I will only agree to a documentary if we do call it apocalypse now.
[00:39:23] Duke: I actually want a hackathon with that apple. Ready?
[00:39:26] Mark: Oh man.
[00:39:28] Cory: But all I know is whoever it is.
[00:39:30] Duke: I've gone.
[00:39:31] Cory: Whoever's in front of the camera has to take on Johnny Ives, white t-shirt and accent.
[00:39:41] Mark: Yeah.
[00:39:41] Jim: And mark, you would look good in a turtleneck. You could, you could bust that out. I could see that maybe a white turtle.
[00:39:47] Mark: Jim's being modest because he's only seen me from the neck down.
[00:39:49] Jim: Very strange. He's a very strange fellow at our meetings. It's, it's, it's hard to make heads or tails. as far as this weekend is concerned, we're going to be shutting things down at five o'clock Pacific time on Saturday. and then we will, be, working over the weekend there to get everything built up to the production environment.
We expect things to come online late Sunday afternoon, but the doors officially will open Monday at 6:00 AM Pacific. So give us a little breathing room just to sort any things out, as far as, integrations and just make sure everything as well. so it'll be, you know, not too long of a downtime, fortunately, but, that's what we're looking at right now.
[00:40:25] Duke: All right guys. So Monday it is mark. Jim. Want to thank you guys for coming on the show and, give you guys a final word.
[00:40:31] Jim: Come on in and see what we're doing at now. Learning 2.0, it's a new day here at service now, and we are excited to, uh, to share it with you and we want your feedback good or bad. And, we look forward to seeing folks next week.
[00:40:43] Mark: I'm excited to stop taking antacids. It'll be great. Yeah. Uh, no, it's, it's going to be great. our team's just been a great, resource to work with, super professional. they, they never ever, ever say no, it's always, yeah, sure. Let's take a look and figure out how we can make that happen.
So, my final word, really, I want to say thank you to my team. thank you to you guys. obviously making content, Big and close to my heart. So I love everybody making content, and visiting now, learning, making service, animal success, making now learning and success. and if you have any, cases that you need to put in, just make sure that it's after Monday at whatever time we had set, not before please, because obviously we need some time to, it's a migration, everyone's gone through a migration at some point in their life.
So, you know how we feel.
[00:41:28] Cory: Absolutely. So I just want to say thank you to you guys for putting in the work to make now learning better and service now better as a whole. and definitely appreciate you coming on the show.
[00:41:36] Duke: Thanks so much, guys. We'll talk to you later.