177: How this Fashion Designer Used LinkedIn to Land High-Paying Projects

Uncover this fashion designer's secrets to attracting clients and growing a successful agency, while also shedding light on the challenges and frustrations she faces when working with freelancers (and what you should do instead.)

In this episode, Rachel Battarbee spills the secrets to growing your freelance fashion career, ways to expand your network, and insights on what frustrations she commonly runs into when working with freelancers. We dive into her experience starting Guided Makers and how she landed her first clients. Rachel shares her valuable insights on using LinkedIn as a powerful tool for networking and getting noticed by potential clients. And hey, for all you freelancers out there, Rachel also provides some eye-opening tips on working effectively with freelancers and avoiding common struggles. So whether you're just starting out or looking to amp up your fashion freelancing game, this episode has got you covered with expert advice from the one and only Rachel Battarbee!

Our Industry Expert in this episode, Rachel Battarbee, cracks open her 25-year career in the apparel industry. She is a results-driven strategist who understands all facets of product development and sourcing. As a big-picture thinker and experienced process manager, she helps her clients anticipate potential roadblocks and establish best practices for current and future business opportunities.
Rachel’s previous experience includes developing and sourcing apparel lines for leading U.S. and U.K. retailers and distributors.

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Creators and Guests

Host

Heidi Weinberg {Sew Heidi}

Heidi (aka Sew Heidi) is a self-taught freelance fashion designer who built a six-figure business without a degree, portfolio, or industry connections. After years of burnout in the fashion industry, she went freelance—and never looked back. Now, she helps other designers ditch toxic jobs, land better clients, and build flexible careers they love. Through her podcast, courses, and resources, Heidi has helped thousands of designers take control of their fashion path and finally get paid what they’re worth.

What is Fashion Designers Get Paid: Build Your Fashion Career On Your Own Terms?

This is a show for burnt-out fashion designers (and TDs, PDs, patternmakers, textile designer and beyond) who want more flexibility in their career while still doing work they love.

You'll learn how to build a freelance fashion business, so you can do the work you love on your own terms. Freelancing in fashion is the only way to get freedom in your day (instead of being tied to a desk).

Whether you want to earn extra money on the side, fund your fashion brand, or replace your salary, the FDGP podcast will help you get there. Listen in for actionable tips and strategies to kickstart or grow your career as a freelance fashion designer, build your confidence, and create the life you want.

Hosted by $100k+ fashion freelancer Sew Heidi, the show features interviews and strategy sessions with successful freelance fashion designers from around the world who've ditched toxic fashion jobs and taken control of their own destinies. This is the only place to get REAL insights from REAL freelancers who have built REAL careers on their own terms. (Formerly the Successful Fashion Freelancer podcast.)

Heidi [00:00:00]:

In this episode, I'm talking to Rachel Batterby, the owner of Guided Makers, an apparel development agency. Rachel started her freelance career after 25 years in the fashion industry and she built up to so many clients that she decided to start her company. In our conversation she talks about the specific strategies that she used to get her first few clients, how she continued to grow and get consistent work and income, and how she started hiring other freelancers. She shares tons of great tips on leveraging LinkedIn to land projects and grow her network. On the other side of the table, Rachel also shares what she looks for in freelancers that she hires, as well as some of the good and bad experiences that she's had. So whether you're an established freelancer looking to grow your team or you're trying to get more clients, there is so much advice in my conversation with Rachel. Let's get to it. Well, welcome Rachel, to the podcast. I'd love to start out by having you introduce yourself and letting everybody know who you are and what you do in the fashion industry.

Rachel Batterbee [00:00:56]:

Sure. Well, thank you for having me, it's great to be here. So, my name is Rachel Batterby and I am the owner of Guided Makers, which is an apparel development agencyconsultancy that we help brands of all sizes and stages bring product to market. So my background, I've been in the industry for about probably, well, definitely over 25 years, so a lot of experience. And I actually started in the industry on the supply side, working for a supplier. So that's kind of where my teeth understood things like timelines and communication and overall process. And then I moved into brands and have worked with some larger brands such as Marks Spencer in the UK and then moving to the US, worked with Timberland and Ll Bean, other larger brands. And they really gave me that full experience of the end to end process with a focus on apparel. And in all of that I also have touched on areas such as merchandising, which is another key element that comes into the process. Sourcing. Really done a lot of work around the sourcing world and also been able to play with some of the creative things and get visibility and exposure to that too. So my experience has really been very big picture, well rounded and not solely focused on one area, which is what I believe product development is. It's very much big picture.

Heidi [00:02:43]:

Yeah. So how did you first start Guided Makers? Or maybe it started before it was Guided Makers. Did you start out doing independent, freelancing, just sort of as like a one, like how did this whole path in your career begin, where you went from working with Ll Bean and these larger brands to being an independent consultant or yeah, yeah.

Rachel Batterbee [00:03:06]:

So that was interesting. I opted to step away from corporate. My job was evolving into something I didn't want to do. And I'd had some awesome experiences where I was much bigger picture thinker. So I was like, okay, now's the time for me to step away and decide what's next, knowing what resonated with me. And then while I was figuring that out and trying to understand what was going to be next, had a lot of people reach out, connecting with people, grabbing coffee. And invariably towards the end of that conversation, a little bag would come out from somewhere and they would say, oh, I've got this idea and I was wondering if you could help. And I was like, okay, I'm sensing a theme, I'm sensing a need. And that is essentially what set me up. I was like, okay, people need help, people have ideas and people don't know where to start. So that was me kind of getting off the ground and starting to share my knowledge and figure out what that looked like, how was I going to do it? This was all pre COVID. So the concept of working remotely from product was a little like how people are going to less common. Yeah, less common. There was this whole mindset of like, you've had to be there. But anyway, it worked. There was plenty of people around me and then there were other people then starting to reach out, oh hey, I'm just starting to work with this brand. Can you help navigate this? Or hey, we've got a sourcing question here. So just word gets out there and that is how it started. Okay, that was pre guided makers.

Heidi [00:04:52]:

That was you just working as an independent person, correct?

Rachel Batterbee [00:04:56]:

Yeah. Okay. Correct.

Heidi [00:04:57]:

Well, I know the way this stuff typically works. Like, oh, I just started having coffee with people and everybody was then asking to hire me or can I help with this project? Or I have this idea right. There's usually a little bit more nuance to it than that. What did that process exactly look like for you to start getting those first few clients? Had you updated on LinkedIn? Were you reaching out to people directly to initiate these conversations? Walk us through a little bit more of the detailed nuances that went on with that beginning stage.

Rachel Batterbee [00:05:27]:

Yeah, it was about letting people know. You have to let people know. And we say this to our clients too. We can make product to do whatever we're doing, but unless we've got that confidence, kind of put it out there, which is hard for a lot of people, then what we're doing just stays in a vacuum. So yes, it is socializing. It using your network. Putting on LinkedIn, I created just a landing page for my services as a website. It was really something very basic, but it had to be a place for people to go because in this world, people Google look you up, making sure that my experience, my LinkedIn profile was all up to date. I was got great testimonials on there from people I'd worked with. So yes, definitely a lot of all that I'm well connected in the industry so that really helps. So my network is already pretty large and respected so that is great. So people would be comfortable to reach out or refer. On the other thing I did, which was a bit of a happy accident and I didn't intend for this to happen, it wasn't my intention, but I was also applying for jobs at the same time. It was like, okay, well this is happening but then I see this opportunity and so one job I applied for, they could totally do it but the fit wasn't right, the company wasn't right for me, the location, there was a lot that wasn't right and they were keen to offer me a position. But after dialogue and it was like, look this isn't going to be right, I'm not going to be the best fit for your company and vice versa. How about we consider a freelance opportunity and I could lay it out that it was affordable, I could get this specific project done for them. Essentially what I did is I seized an opportunity and I turned it around for it to support a freelance. It was up to them then at that point whether they wanted to do that and they were like, oh actually that works and we would love to have your skill set. So that was like a slightly bigger company. They wanted me to do something very specific, and I just kind of slid in there and I did that for six months, which was a way better outcome than me. Like, either shoehorning myself into their company and something that I knew that I didn't really want to do, or it wasn't the right fit, but short term, to help them through it was great. So it was definitely seeing an opportunity, turning it around and then making it fit kind of like my new desired path.

Heidi [00:08:18]:

Yeah. And was that like a real remote freelance relationship or did you kind of go on site for those six months and you were working full time with them but just not as an actual employee?

Rachel Batterbee [00:08:30]:

No, it was pretty much remote an hour or so from here. So I would maybe go down once a week, twice a week, but for the rest of it, it was remote and it was slightly different. It wasn't all product development, there was a little bit of like looking at their assortment process was a big thing. The product development process or concept through to commercialization, it actually even wasn't an apparel but the process applies to everything so I could look at the process and make some recommendations and talk to the team and things like that. So yeah, it was quite different. But yeah, it's all about seizing an opportunity and pitching it and then taking it from there. How do you make something work and maybe suggesting to someone there's a different way.

Heidi [00:09:19]:

Yeah, for sure. Okay, so talk to us then. When did you start building out Guided Makers? Like at what point? So you said you started pre COVID. When was that about?

Rachel Batterbee [00:09:30]:

The guided makers actually launched july I think of 2019. So yeah, I guess it's coming up to what, four years?

Heidi [00:09:40]:

Yeah. So when did you start freelancing on your own?

Rachel Batterbee [00:09:43]:

2017.

Heidi [00:09:46]:

Okay, so then you launched Guided Makers about two years later. Tell us a little bit about that and how did it start building out to be bigger than you?

Rachel Batterbee [00:09:54]:

Yeah, Guided Makers came about through networking essentially and meeting people. And it did start with a business partner which was more focused on the technical side of the business.

Heidi [00:10:10]:

Okay.

Rachel Batterbee [00:10:10]:

And so it was like a melding of two skill sets for apparel development. So that's how it started. It was like, okay, how can we make these two skill sets work together in a more holistic view and way for clients? So that's essentially how it started. I own Guided Makers and some of these specialized skills are actually managed through a network of freelancers. It's actually easier and more efficient that way. And then the clients get highly specialized skills to their product and it's the same with design as well. So managing a network of freelancers in different areas and Guiding Makers has just really grown from the outset. It's just through connections, network referrals, job leads onto job. And what's happened is it's really grown into something more than just product development. Product development is concept to production commercialization, which is great. It's critical, it's needed. I'm a big believer in like we need a lot of information to do it really well. You can't just execute in my opinion. And so seeing a lot of that white space, guided Makers is really growing into something where we help the startup understand how to get launched. It's not just about your great idea. We need you to think about how you're going to sell it. We need you to think about your investment, we need you to think about your brand and then we can make it. So this is kind of more of what it's coming out to be in terms of like a larger holistic agency to help brands whatever stage and less about just product development.

Heidi [00:12:12]:

Yeah. So you keep mentioning sort of this idea of building out your networking or network and talking to people and relationships and stuff and I'd love to highlight that once more and hear a little bit more of the nuances behind that. Because you live in Maine, this is not a fashion hub. It's not like you live in New York City or London or and yes, you this huge career behind you with all the people that you met along the but like what does this air, quote, networking look like as you continue to build beyond an independent freelancer to okay, now I'm starting this agency, this consultancy guided makers. And I've grown it to the extent that I now outsource to a bunch of other freelancers. It's not as simple as like oh I'm just networking and talking to people. What does this actually look like?

Rachel Batterbee [00:13:08]:

Yeah, well in some respects it is about talking with people and networking. It's like how else do you do it to get your name out there and build those relationships. And I think to build the relationships you've got to build trust. And so it's baby steps. So a small job to build some trust, to get kind of like your reputation out there is really critically important and once somebody has a really great experience with you then they're happy to send somebody else on or they're happy to have a continued conversation with you. And so for me I'm a believer of like my greatest asset is myself and my experience. But I don't oversell myself. I don't want to oversell myself. I never want to oversell because if I can't do it I can't do a great job and that for me is not best foot forward and stay true to what I can do really well. And I think that that comes out in conversations and the more people you speak with in the industry they get it and they understand it and then they immediately build confidence because they can hear about the experience. It's all about sharing that experience and just building that rapport and just getting the name out there. I'll go to trade shows and talk to people. I'll talk to factories about what are their experiences, what's happening with them, talk to other freelancers, what's happening, what are your pain points and let's connect. Right? It's okay to connect and it's okay to share.

Heidi [00:14:53]:

Yeah.

Rachel Batterbee [00:14:53]:

But a lot of the referrals to date Guiding Makers has been 100% referral led and that is just through conversation or past connections. I would totally agree. If you're younger and greener to the industry that's more challenging, right? You haven't necessarily got that base built up but it's really putting yourself out there and talking with people and like I say, stay true to yourself. What can you do really well? How can you shine and sell that? Don't over promise and under deliver because it's a small industry.

Heidi [00:15:33]:

It sure is and it's so small and it's crazy to me you say just give the client, the customer a good experience and kind of do what you've promised and do a great job. And sometimes I think people actually overestimate what it takes to do that. It's quite simple. Do a good job at the thing, right? Don't over promise, deliver on time and just kind of get done what you say you're going to get done but it's kind of surprising and maybe you've experienced this working with other freelancers. How many people don't actually do that? Yeah. Okay so going to trade shows, that's great. We have students that have done that with great success. Working with factories is great. We have a couple of students who've created these amazing funnels with factories where these factories then just feed them clients. Right, yeah.

Rachel Batterbee [00:16:24]:

Amazing strategy.

Heidi [00:16:26]:

Yeah. Right. And then any online platforms. Do you utilize LinkedIn just to kind of stay in touch with people or is it pretty much factory like, talking to your resources and the people you're already connected with in the industry?

Rachel Batterbee [00:16:38]:

Yeah, I mean, we bridge LinkedIn and I leverage LinkedIn and social media channels. I would say social media channels don't really bring in any revenue. We track all our referrals and it's like, I think in four years, maybe one person said Instagram. So it's interesting, but you feel like there's a need and yeah, keep doing it. Again, it's all about people tapping your name in. Where do you show up? Right. You build a credibility and a trust through your presence. Yeah. There's not where people are finding you. LinkedIn. Absolutely. LinkedIn isn't really about your number one connection. And I might misspeak here because I'm not a guru on LinkedIn, far from it. But it's about your second and third connections. So you really want those second and third connections to be in the thousands, something like 15,000, because that's your reach and that's where you can say, oh, do you mind making an introduction? Or oh, hey, I saw this. When you see the more familiar you are with brands or they may be needing some help, they can help put you in contact with the right people versus just being kind of like out there saying, oh, my friend, so and so is connected to that hiring manager that's posted on LinkedIn that is struggling. Finding so and so. Yeah. So it's like just playing with that a little bit versus just at the surface level.

Heidi [00:18:15]:

For sure. I love that.

Rachel Batterbee [00:18:16]:

But LinkedIn yeah, LinkedIn is probably the best way. And if there was any social to invest your time in, that would be the one.

Heidi [00:18:25]:

Yeah, I would agree with you completely. So have you done that strategy where you've sort of seen this brand through a second or third connection that's trying to fill this role or something? And then you have asked your contact, that strategy you just outlined, have you done that and gotten connections?

Rachel Batterbee [00:18:43]:

Yeah, totally. And then you can connect with those people and start that dialogue. Doesn't necessarily always convert. Sure. Not everything. You're never going to have 100% conversion rate. Yeah. But absolutely. I've been like, I see they need this, and then I'll be like, we used to work there, who's the person I really want to speak to? And I'll say absolutely. That's what it's there for. That's what it was always there for. It was to make the connections and allow for introductions. And I do it for others too. If I see somebody saying they need somebody, I'll reach out to somebody I know to say you need to speak to so and so. Okay, that's great.

Heidi [00:19:27]:

Yeah, I love that. Okay. So many tangible strategies for how you've actually gotten clients and built this all out. Okay, I want to talk about the freelancer side of things. So you as I don't know how to label you, the hiring manager per se. I guess that's kind of like the generic bucket to put you in. Right? But you hire other freelancers and so people who are listening to this or watching this, who are freelancing, I would love to make this a really amazing learning opportunity for them. So first, what is your process typically for hiring freelancers? I think you said earlier you have just kind of reached out or connected with them. I know we mentioned, oh, this is before we started recording, but one of my students, Allison Heinis, you reached out to her to see about possibly outsourcing some projects to her. What's your process for bringing a new freelancer on?

Rachel Batterbee [00:20:18]:

Yeah, so it varies, right. It could be a referral itself or it could be seeing somebody. I think Allison I'd seen on LinkedIn and I was intrigued, shown some good posts. Seems really succinct in her messaging. I'm really clear in what she it's it was just like for me, it was like, oh, okay, this is somebody to connect with. As a freelancer, I'm incredibly shy and the concept of reaching out to people is not my number one thing to do.

Heidi [00:21:00]:

Wild the career you've built with that.

Rachel Batterbee [00:21:04]:

Sort of picking up the phone and cold calling, it's not comfortable at all. However, over the last few years definitely grown in that. And it's a means to an end. It's part of the job and freelancing and having an agency or contracts and contracts, contracts, contract. There's no continuous influx right. Of revenue. So you have to do that. And that's a skill set you really have to be comfortable with and grow. So anyway, that's what I do. I see people that are out there. If it's clear messaging, if they seem polished in what they're putting out there, I'm comfortable then to say, hey, I'd love to connect with you. Would you like to chat? And they will either come back and say, yeah, I'd love to, or no. And Alison was actually like saying, yeah, I'm following you, I'd like to chat with you too. So chances are everybody likes to talk. 100% everybody wants to talk and share their story.

Heidi [00:22:07]:

Yeah.

Rachel Batterbee [00:22:07]:

So 99% people that you reach out to will want to chat and share their story. They want to connect. Anybody who's on LinkedIn, for example, it's all about connection. People aren't just hanging out on LinkedIn to look at the photos. Right. It's about driving business. It's like so be bold, put yourself out there. I'd love to talk to you. I would be happy with freelancers to call me to say to learn more.

Heidi [00:22:34]:

I was going to be happy.

Rachel Batterbee [00:22:38]:

I'm ever speaking out? Rarely. Wow. Yeah. I'm not the only big in town. There's plenty of power developed companies.

Heidi [00:22:53]:

There are.

Rachel Batterbee [00:22:53]:

And so freelancers can be calling them and say, how are your structures? Do you have a need? Right. You have to sell yourself. People aren't always going to come and find you. My way of looking is using these tools, or it might be a referral, or if somebody used to reach out to me, I'd have a conversation. I did have somebody reach out the other day, and that was a great conversation. Great. I was like, wow, okay, awesome. You're in my database. I have nothing right now, but you're in my database. And if I need that, I will call you. And the other thing I'm just going to say is I mentioned it earlier. Don't oversell yourself.

Heidi [00:23:39]:

Talk about that anymore. Yeah.

Rachel Batterbee [00:23:41]:

Too many will say, oh, I can do that, or I have done that, or, yeah, that's fine, and we'll get into the project and it's not going to work. It's not a good fit. They're not quite sure, the lack of confidence to get through it. Well, I've never actually done this, or this is new. And that is a problem because if I have an employee on board, there's an element that I'm happy to train. And that's part of being an employee. As a freelancer, I'm not here to train. I'm here for the services. And we pay you for your services for what you offer. And so that's when it becomes very sticky. And it also then impacts on whomever's business or agency you're working with because people onto the client. And we rate ourselves very highly in terms of a full service and good level of service. And if one of those freelancers actually can't do the job, it becomes very challenging all around.

Heidi [00:24:52]:

It falls back on you.

Rachel Batterbee [00:24:53]:

Totally. Yeah, totally.

Heidi [00:24:55]:

Okay, so you said two things that I want to learn a little bit more about. You said when you're looking out there for other freelancers, you look for two things. One, where you've mentioned specifically with Allison very succinct in her messaging and what she does and presents herself in a very polished way. So I'd love for you to expand on both of those things. Succinct and polished.

Rachel Batterbee [00:25:19]:

Yeah, so succinct. It's just a direct message. It's just really clear. I could tell she was an awesome technical designer pattern maker. And the way she delivers it is really polished. So she may put out a video or her post on LinkedIn, for example, may just be just a couple of sentences which if you're in the industry, you're like, she gets.

Heidi [00:25:45]:

So just the words she's using and how she's speaking. Yeah, okay.

Rachel Batterbee [00:25:49]:

And how she's speaking. And so to me, it's demonstrating experience and on the same wavelength. Right. I want to work with people who kind of understand our way of working, too. Like I say we're very holistic. We don't jump into product development until we know a certain number of things about a brand or to be brand. And if that resonates with freelancer or somebody else who may be working with, then they understand that process. There are other agencies that will just jump into product development. And if that's how you work and not part of the big picture, then maybe it's not a great fit. It's just like I just want to get it done and move on. And some of those projects don't really work like that for us. We want to create a team.

Heidi [00:26:51]:

Yeah. Okay. So what I think I'm kind of trying to extract out of you with the Succinct thing, just because this is something I see come up with freelancers a lot and I try to teach them the opposite of that. Like you said, Allison, she's very savvy as a technical designer, a pattern maker. She specifically does women's. It's just very clear, like, who she is, what she does and who her customer is versus the opposite of that might be the freelancer who's kind of like, I can do this and I can do that and I can do all the kajillion things. Right, right. Just sort of trying to grasp at anything versus like, no, this is my zone of genius and this is what I focus on. Is that fair to say?

Rachel Batterbee [00:27:31]:

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Like I say, just at a glance, you know who she is and what she can do. And that fills you with confidence. For me, it fills with confidence. People also don't have time to weed through and to dig deep to try to figure out what they right. You need to be something. If you are leveraging LinkedIn, for example, you just need to be very clear. People are busy. It's like the same mentality as all the other social media channels. How do you capture some disatention? And Alison certainly had done that for me and I'd seen her come up a few, so reaching out. So, yeah, it's just clarity. Just real clarity. The other thing on LinkedIn too, is you see who people are connected with and if you have the right connections in the industry not right, but sufficient or mutual, that adds confidence.

Heidi [00:28:35]:

Yeah. Okay. So, dear listener, be very clear about who you are and your services as a freelancer. Look polished. You need to show that you know what you're talking about. And also don't be afraid to reach out. Right. To Rachel, to other people. I always tell people this, there are agencies like yourself or brands that really want the person to do the thing. And there's not a great I mean, we've got like upwork and stuff, but I don't feel like there's a great sort of matchmaking system. So there's tremendous amount of opportunity when you present yourself. Do you? How that's? Great. Some really awesome insights there. Rachel I'd love to know, how do you work with freelancers? Are they in touch with the clients, working directly? Or does everything channel through you and you're the touch point for the client? What does that look like from a logistics side?

Rachel Batterbee [00:29:31]:

So I would say every client and project is different.

Heidi [00:29:34]:

Okay.

Rachel Batterbee [00:29:34]:

Every single one is different. Okay. But a good example is one that we're doing in Swimwear right now and that technical designer is in touch with the client.

Heidi [00:29:45]:

Okay.

Rachel Batterbee [00:29:45]:

I don't really believe in being a middleman. I let the expert speak to the client. This is where I have to have the trust. Right? Do you know what you're doing and can you manage this?

Heidi [00:29:58]:

Which is a little scary sometimes it's a little.

Rachel Batterbee [00:30:04]:

So. That's really important. But at the end of the day, I don't want to be in the middle and always translating. There are times where myself or there will be product developers here that are managing that project that will maybe step in or have some extra questions or work with them on maybe tech Pack update and things like that. But I want the client and the technical designer, for example, or a designer to be speaking with the client. I think that's really important. It's part of a team. Okay. We have a team eyes on your product. That's really important. I talk about Holistic all the time, so it should be as many people as possible to get that product and brand launch, right? If somebody's working on your shopify website, they're part of that team. They're going to know what technical design is doing and they're going to know what PD is doing from timeline perspective. So it all goes hand in hand. There are times where freelancer is not working at all with the client. And we've recently had to do a whole bunch of sketches. Just take all this product and put it into sketches. Okay? They don't need to communicate totally.

Heidi [00:31:32]:

They're just drawing a bunch of flats.

Rachel Batterbee [00:31:33]:

Yeah, they're just doing all the flats and they're just working with the team here and that gets done.

Heidi [00:31:40]:

Okay.

Rachel Batterbee [00:31:40]:

So, yeah, depends on the client, depends on the project and the needs. But if we're really truly developing product, being part of that conversation is important.

Heidi [00:31:51]:

I'd love to hear because we have a lot of freelancers in our community who are at capacity with their work and who are they still want to bring on more clients, but they're just like, I'm booked out months in advance and I can't do it. And they want to sort of start outsourcing and building maybe something out like an agency. Like you have logistically and you don't have to share exact numbers if you don't want to. But how do you figure out the pricing for like, okay, here's what I'm quoting the client for the project, right? And then how do I budget in to then outsource part of that to a freelancer? Whether. That's an hourly rate to the freelancer or like a project rate to make sure that at the end of the day you still need to make money and you're still the one that got the client in the first place. Even if that technical designer, PD, what have you, is in direct contact, you're still managing the project and still have the whole relationship. I imagine there was some learning curve to that, but.

Rachel Batterbee [00:32:50]:

Yeah, it's a continual learning curve. Okay, I'm going to say yeah. So when working with a freelancer, for example, I'll know their rates and then depending on how the project is with the client, we'll talk about whether it's an hourly or a fixed rate and then with that becomes the markup back to guided makers. So as with any agency, if you're freelancing to them, they're always going to take your rate and mark it up and that's what comes back in to your point. We found the client, we're managing the business. Totally. You're not out getting sales. We're doing the sales job. Right. So that's essentially in a nutshell, how it's working with freelancers? We're here always trying to figure out the best way to fill out two clients. It can be hourly, it can be fixed rate. Just I keep coming back to this word of trust and learning and relationship. Typically to start out we'll go with hourly rates because we don't know the client, we don't know how they work, we don't know how they operate. It's not black and white. Private settlement is not black and white and it can take a long time. There's lots of curveballs and we get off track and come back on and depending on the client and the product, understanding all of that through an hourly rate is probably more sustainable. It is more sustainable as a business before the longer term relationship is like, okay, now we can move into fixed rate because we totally understand each other and this is how we're going to move it. And then as a business perspective, it's easier to manage. But I definitely found initially hourly is the way to go.

Heidi [00:34:52]:

Yeah, I always suggest people start hourly and then in my career I actually never did hourly for long list of reasons. But some clients get a little resistant to it, right? Because they're like, well, and I think it's just a matter of how you pitch it. Right? It's like, okay, well, we estimate it's going to take x hour, between five and 10 hours, or five and 8 hours, what have you, ten to 20, and then just keeping them in the loop, building that relationship, the trust of like, okay, here's where we're at and this is what we've got done. And if they keep giving you a bunch of revisions and revisions and revisions just having an open dialogue about that, right?

Rachel Batterbee [00:35:26]:

Yeah.

Heidi [00:35:27]:

Okay, so it sounds like you have now figured out some sort of system. Again, constant learning process. But if the freelancer is $50 an hour, then you're saying, okay, 50 times X, like some type of markup. That's what you're actually charging to the client. I'd love to talk a little bit more about you mentioned earlier something that is a challenge with working with freelancers is when they sort of oversell themselves of like, yeah, I could do that. Right? And then you get deep in the project and it's like, what are some other challenges that you've had with freelancers that you've hired during any part of the process? If you could teach all the freelancers out there some lessons or give them some tips and advice, like what has been your experience? Good and bad.

Rachel Batterbee [00:36:12]:

So the good start with the good. Okay. Because there's not a lot of bad, but let's start with, okay, yeah. So the good is, and it's the same rules for us a little bit like you want your client to feel like they're the only client you want them to be. There's boundaries but responsive on it, open to conversation. If we're having a technical issue here, they will get on the phone and work through it with them. Like on the tech pack, for example, just really open and collaborative and responsive. Yeah, that's great because you all want to work with people like that. The more of the negatives are, well, that's how I got it.

Heidi [00:37:00]:

What do you mean?

Rachel Batterbee [00:37:00]:

Or statements of like, well that's how I got it. So that's how you're going to keep it, right? Versus like, I asked you for your expertise and it's like, well you gave it me that way, so I'm not going to do anything with it. And it's like, well, okay, but we're not hearing your expertise. Give me always a bit of fault.

Heidi [00:37:22]:

Like if you give them a tech pack and they're like pack or a.

Rachel Batterbee [00:37:27]:

Pattern and there's always a bit of a blame. We're not always but some can be a bit of a blame. Like, well that's what you gave to us. And we'll be like, yes, but your role here is to improve on that or fix it or change it or provide a recommendation, okay.

Heidi [00:37:47]:

To speak up and say like, here we could do this better, not just, well, I don't know, this is what they gave me, so this is what we're going to use type of attitude.

Rachel Batterbee [00:37:53]:

Right? Exactly. Okay, got you. So that is when it becomes challenging and not necessarily fun to work with because then you're having to draw out what is that recommendation? Or what shall we do from here? So that is when it becomes a bit of a challenge. But that is where I think it kind of goes hand in hand with maybe a bit of the oversell that they're not necessarily going to be able to provide a solution. So that's just like one thing. So for me, it's really about that team that openness that willingness, that responsiveness, a thorough email is great. It's just really important versus just a one line or really disjointed. The communication is really important too.

Heidi [00:38:45]:

Yeah.

Rachel Batterbee [00:38:45]:

So you've got to remember the way I see it is like freelancers, you're selling your expertise so it has to come through. You know what I mean? I want to see it. We're paying for it and so we want to see that come through. And that's why we're working with you because we believe in your expertise.

Heidi [00:39:04]:

Yeah. Do you ever have any challenges? Just because I've hired a lot of freelancers in my various businesses and two big challenges that come up for me is just people delivering what they say they're going to deliver and doing it on time. And then also, and especially at the very beginning is being very communicative about like here's where I'm at, here's the status of the project. This is something that makes me a little bit like, right, is like you hire this freelancer and the project, let's say it's going to take them a week, right. And you don't really hear from them and you're kind of like, well are they doing it? I don't know. Is it getting done? And then very last minute and that sort of relationship doesn't work for me, then they're gone. I can't work with that kind of person, but I don't want to have to mid project be like, hey, how's it going? Are you making any progress? Do you have any questions? Like where are we at with this? Especially when you've got a client on the other side who's reliant on this. You don't want to wait till that very last minute to find out they didn't do it or they didn't do it, right. And then you're like, okay, well now I have to either explain that to my client or frantically pull an all nighter to figure this out or pay some other freelancer double. Right. Like those sort of situations and some of it feels like really common sense to me. But I've learned over the years that a lot of people don't work that way. They're fine with just like getting it done, doing no check ins and then barely delivering it on time, which gives.

Rachel Batterbee [00:40:37]:

Me yeah, no, you bring up a good point. I've definitely worked with some of those folks. They're the folks that I then shift what work they would get in the future. I don't work well like that either. We're pretty clear about timelines here. We will issue a timeline for the client and whomever is working on the project and the great freelancers will come back and say, well, I'm on vacation that week. Is there any chance we can shift it and have those dialogues? So from the outset you kind of know the ones that are a little quiet are the ones that are going to be less consumer customer facing and be a little bit more in the background, just doing the busy work and we will manage them accordingly. So we keep an eye on everything according to our timelines and do kind of bug. But yeah, communication is key and visibility is key on all of that. Like I say, you just don't get a repeat business. And I think as a good self check for any freelancer is to ask for feedback. Ask for feedback? Nobody asks me for feedback.

Heidi [00:41:49]:

They do not.

Rachel Batterbee [00:41:51]:

I ask all my clients for feedback and I ask them for feedback halfway through the project, too.

Heidi [00:41:56]:

Yeah.

Rachel Batterbee [00:41:56]:

And it's like, this is no different. If you want to grow, you want to grow your business, you want to get a great reputation, you're evolving all the time. All the time. And you will learn all the time. It's happening still for me, I learn all the time. Oh, I could have done that differently, or oh, the client said that this was a little confusing. All right, we'll change that. It's great feedback, I would say, because people are very we're all blind to our own mistakes or shortfalls in business or in life. And we don't see or hear it, we just don't. And so you need someone to help you along.

Heidi [00:42:41]:

Yeah. And it's really as simple as saying, I want to check in. How are things going? How are you feeling? Where do you feel things are going well? Where do you feel things are maybe feeling a little tough? Like, what feedback do you have? Just asking just those two questions. Where are things going well? And what's feeling a little tough? Or where are things getting stuck? And then most people are very happy to share. You just have to ask.

Rachel Batterbee [00:43:07]:

Yeah. And as a business owner, I will share because if I think your output is fantastic, getting there was painful. I want to keep the output right. For me, it's about my customer satisfaction. So I'll be like, yeah, communication, we really need to pick that up and let's try to improve that going forward. Or this is what we as a business would need. But yeah, that would be a big piece of advice. They don't think freelancers ask it enough. They don't. It's difficult to do and I totally appreciate that.

Heidi [00:43:42]:

Sure.

Rachel Batterbee [00:43:43]:

It's a little bit scary.

Heidi [00:43:44]:

Yeah. So it sounds like you have, like you said, a database of freelancers that you kind of build out based on, like you said, providing really specialized services to your various clients. And sometimes that's drawing a bunch of flats, sometimes that's maybe something really technical. Do you have a team as well? Employee team?

Rachel Batterbee [00:44:03]:

Yeah, I have a product developer here. Okay. She works here at Guided Makers as an employee. And then I have another two consultants that come in quite regularly to help round out our services. So they're not technically employees, but they're in the office and they are more about that bigger picture. Look for helping a brand start align, but then also existing clients, if they need to tap into some of these extended services, they can. Got you. Yeah. Typically two to four people in the office on any given day, depending on what's on the calendar. Yeah.

Heidi [00:44:43]:

And then all your freelancers are remote. I mean, maybe if they happen to live close, they can touch base, but it sounds like pretty much remote.

Rachel Batterbee [00:44:50]:

Yeah, some of them are local actually. Come in maybe for a fitting or a design review. So always encourage that. Working around the table is great. There is no replacing that. But everybody else is remote and zoom and teams all works great. I encourage people to if they have teams or they subscribe to Microsoft, that's great. For me as a business owner, I have everybody on IAM. We're chatting all the time. Hey, did you know this is another thing about breaking down? Like, did you get to it yet? Or they can't access a tip pack and we'll change the setting, those kinds of things. It's great. It's about ease of communication is key.

Heidi [00:45:33]:

As do you work are most your freelancers in the US or do you have people internationally as well?

Rachel Batterbee [00:45:38]:

No domestic us.

Heidi [00:45:40]:

Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Is there a reason for that? Just by chance?

Rachel Batterbee [00:45:43]:

I think it's by chance. Definitely been speaking to people in Canada. Okay. But haven't worked with anybody outside of North America. It's totally doable, though. Yeah, it is totally doable.

Heidi [00:45:55]:

Yeah. A lot of our students work with people around the globe.

Rachel Batterbee [00:45:58]:

Yeah.

Heidi [00:45:59]:

Amazing. Rachel, this has been so fantastic. So many great actionable insights and lessons that people can use to build their own agency or consultancy and also get more clients and plenty of opportunities for those freelancers to work with agencies like you or the other ones that are out there. I really appreciate your time and sharing. I'd love to end with the question I ask everybody at the end of the podcast, which is what is one thing people never ask you about working in the fashion industry that you wish they would gosh?

Rachel Batterbee [00:46:30]:

That's a good one. Is it glamorous? Yeah.

Heidi [00:46:34]:

Okay.

Rachel Batterbee [00:46:35]:

No, it's not. A lot of people think it's really glamorous. They do.

Heidi [00:46:42]:

I don't.

Rachel Batterbee [00:46:42]:

Clothes and fashion. Yeah. And it's like, no, not glamorous. But it can be a lot of fun. And once you've got it in your bones and in your system, it's very difficult to step away. And that must be for a reason. It's just because it's like I don't know, there's an energy and the energy is there for sure. And what keeps me in it, I love it.

Heidi [00:47:11]:

Well, thank you so much for sharing your story and your insights.

Rachel Batterbee [00:47:14]:

You're welcome. Thank you for having me.