Chapter + Verse

Guest co-host Ben Tucker joins Jill for an honest conversation with his sister, Angela, about 15 years of infertility, the weight of waiting, and the God who remained faithful through every chapter.

What is Chapter + Verse?

A faith-forward podcast for people who love Jesus but also love being honest about how weird and wonderful life can be. Hosts Kerrye and Jill tell stories about the Bible, talk about their faith, and dig into what it looks like to follow God through the ordinary chaos of everyday, imperfect life. Real conversations. Real stories. No pretending to have it all together. Pull up a chair, turn the page, and let's go.

Welcome to Chapter and Verse, where people
come on and tell their real stories,

faith, failure, redemption, and the
occasional, "Lord, what are you doing?"

moment.

Some inspiring, some messy, and some that
probably should have come with a warning

label, because through every chapter
of every story, God is still writing.

And He's not afraid of a little chaos.

This is Jill.

And Kerrye.

Let's turn the page.

Hey, everybody.

Um, this is a different episode today.

We are lacking my
faithful co-host, Kerrye.

She's, she's got some stuff
to do, so she's not here

today, and she's missing out.

But instead, I have, I have my hubby, Ben.

Hello.

He's gonna, he's gonna try to live
up to Kerrye's, um, reputation.

I- it's, it's gonna be impossible.

He's just gonna do his best.

He's just gonna be Chatty
McChatterson, and it should be-

I gotta sit and listen to you

it should be easy because he's with his
wife, and our guest is his sister, Angela.

My sister-in-law, Angela Bernard.

Hello.

And, um, we're really excited
that you decided to come.

And so we're gonna talk about, um,
a chapter in Angela's life, but also

likely we will talk about several fun
little things from childhood, I'm sure.

Um, so this episode might
be a little bit different.

It might be like herding cats,
but we're gonna give it a shot.

It's gonna be great.

Yes, it will be.

Yes.

It'll be fun.

And we may not speak too
much of the childhood.

Maybe a little bit.

Oh, I think we might.

Maybe a little.

I guess there are no statutes
of limitations on them.

No, not on the childhood.

I have stories.

Yeah.

All right, Angela, tell us
a little bit about yourself.

Like, you know, justâ¦

I mean, obviously you're my sister-in-law,
so that's already, like, great.

Of course.

No, but j- so you're married to Tim.

Yes.

You've been married for how long?

32 years.

Can you believe that?

That's crazy.

Yeah.

Crazy.

We don't talk about age on the podcast.

We do not.

So, um- I don't know if you do,
but I do not â¦ we, we don't.

Um, we might talk about Ben's age-
I feel like I should be 32- â¦ but

not anybody else's â¦ which means-
That's- â¦ I was just, like, getting

just a baby when I got married.

I guess that's right.

Yeah.

I was only like- I was, I
mean- â¦ 12 or 13 when you- Yeah.

Yeah.

Wow.

For some reason it felt
like it was later than that.

I know.

I feel like I'm in my 30s.

I don't feel like I'm

Yeah.

Well, you know.

Angela Marie Tucker Bernard.

I have- You've, uh, you've
aged better than I have.

Well, we- Well, we don't
have video, so, you know.

They'll just have the cartoon to go by.

There you go.

Yeah.

Anyway, I'm the oldest of the Tucker clan.

I have three siblings.

Ben is the baby who's been spoiled
his whole life by- Well, I'm trying

to- â¦ mostly me â¦ I'm trying to
beat that out of him, but- But yeah, you

know â¦ it's not working out so well.

I married to Tim when I was barely 17.

I turned 17 a month before we got married.

I don't suggest anybody try that.

You do not recommend.

Okay.

Do not recommend it to any teenagers
that may be listening right now.

Not recommending it.

Thank you.

As a parent, thank you so much for that.

Oh, it's already been brought up.

Yeah.

It's already been brought up in
my family, and I'm like, "Uh, no."

That's funny.

No.

Okay, so you have, you have three kids.

Three kids.

I have Kaden, 22.

Yep.

Healing is 15, and Zadok is nine.

Okay.

Yeah.

So our chapter, is that
what you call it, right?

Yeah.

Our chapter- Yeah, yeah â¦ started
when we got married at 17.

So Tim wasn't 17 though, right?

No, Tim was- Tim's a
little bit older than you?

Tim was six months to turn 19.

He was 18, but he was
turning 19 the next month.

Okay.

He's t- he's almost two
years older than I am.

Okay.

So yeah.

Still don't recommend that either.

Any teenage boys, you are not
mature enough for marriage at 19.

It's insane to me that,
that dad was okay with that.

Dad was not okay with that.

He never let on that.

Like none of us noticed that he wasn't.

He, he let me know he was
okay, not okay with it.

Well, he hid it from the rest of us.

Yeah.

The restâ¦

Maybe he just needed one
more, one less mouth to feed.

Yeah.

I think Christie was still living
with us at that time, wasn't she?

Yeah.

I think David was gone, but
Christie was still there, and

then sh- she had the baby too.

That's true, yeah.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

Uh, for, for, you know, I, I guess
for the other audience that doesn't

know what we're talking about, when
my, my parents also sort of helped

raise my uncle and one of my cousins.

Yeah.

And they lived with us.

I think we had- So David
moved in when I was six.

Yeah, he lived with us for a while.

And he stayed until he was an
adult, and then Christie moved

in couple years after that.

Yeah.

So she, and she was there till she was 18.

Then we had- Then she moved out
for two years, and then come back

with the baby, and then Mom and
Dad kept them for a couple years.

I've forgotten.

So, yeah.

Yeah.

We had a house full.

Yeah.

A lot of comings and goings of family.

I cannot even imagine.

Uh, we also had uncles that come in and
would just stay a weekend or a week or

two, or however long they felt like.

Or, or, or a year.

Yeah.

Like Carl stayed for-
Yeah â¦ almost a year.

He was in and out.

And Gary stayed for a while too.

Yeah.

So our house was kind of the stopping-
Your, your house was like the safe hub.

Yeah.

I think the only one of Mom's brothers
that didn't stay with us was- Darryl?

â¦ Darryl.

Yeah, and he would come
in- Well, he had the Navy.

Yeah.

Well, he'd come in sometimes
and would spend a week during

the summer or whatever.

Yeah.

Grandpa would sometimes come in and bring
his silver, what is it, Airstream in.

Oh, nice.

Right.

Yeah, and he'd stay for a
little bit in the summer.

Um, but yeah, we had people
in and out all the time.

So I come from a very busy, lots
of kids in and out- Boisterous

family â¦ kind of family, yeah.

Yeah.

We had a very, very loud family.

Yeah.

No TV, so we always was playing.

Like, there was making things up and
do- Like, there was no quiet time

unless we found a hiding spot to read.

So you guys grew up with no TV.

Um, was there like radio
or like- We did, we did.

We could listen to Adventures in
Odyssey from Focus on the Family.

Okay, so but it wasn't like you
could listen to like just FM radio.

Like, it was still very
controlled, very like it had to

be- Mm-hmm â¦ had to be Christian.

I don't know because I'm, I
was still in the north at this

time and, um, very secular.

Even though I was li- you know, going to
church and stuff, we did not have the-

Yeah â¦ the strictness of no television.

I, I distinctly remember we
got to listen to car radio.

Um- For, um- They did Like news and
like, like- The auction thing was

cool â¦ uh, I can't, I can't remember.

They did that every fall, right?

Oh, like the, was it like the
Russellville Dial-A deal or whatever?

Something like that.

Dial-A-Trade.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

Dial-A-Trade.

Dial-A-Deal.

What am I talking about?

You were close.

But no, no, most of the time
there was a, there was a, uh

So Southern Gospel Station
that played on the rest of it.

We could listen to that.

Okay.

Shouldn't listen to contemporary though.

Not, no.

Just Southern gospel.

Okay.

Unless we snuckingly were we- Didn't
you get like a MC Hammer tape or

something and did- I was gonna
say, yeah, some MC Hammer- Yeah.

And was it Vanilla Ice?

No, no, I don't remember the Vanilla Ice.

I remember it was MC Hammer.

I had that with Ice Baby with Ice
Mom found it hidden in the closet

and we got in trouble for that.

Yeah, yeah.

As long as Okay.

Yeah.

It was a cassette tape, so.

I mean, I could still sing the words
to both MC Hammer and Ice Baby- I

mean- â¦ but I won't do that on here I
mean, it might get us better listeners.

Okay.

More listeners.

But yeah, that was, that was ours.

But yeah, so you grew up in a
very, mm, a somewhat sheltered

environment- I would say-

in that respect.

Yes, very sheltered.

But like you, you got to like run
the yard and you had lots of property

and could go and play and do, and you
weren't like, uh, I don't, I don't

feel like your parents were like
helicopter parents in that way at all.

Like, you could go and do s- It was- You
shot the neighbor with a BB gun, Ben.

That was in our- So I mean, like we
knew that â¦ in our older, when we

was younger, we was on Crow Mountain,
so we didn't have as much property.

Okay.

Um, we had like where the
church was and the parsonage.

Mm-hmm.

And then, um, somebody from
our church lived behind us, so

we could walk to visit them.

Okay.

And they would come over, and
there was a creek that ran behind

the, the, uh, parsonage- Mm-hmm

church area, and so we could
go to that creek and play.

So we did that a lot.

Okay.

Um, a lot of- Yeah, and we had
the loop too, the m- Yeah, the

loop â¦ the loop we could go around.

There was, I think- There was
a couple places mom went with

us- â¦ a couple places â¦ and then
she's like, "Okay, you're safe."

Okay.

Yeah.

So we, you know, we'd ride our bikes,
but we were on top of the mountain.

There wasn't a lot of
like- Yeah â¦ traffic.

It was a gravel road, so.

Yeah.

But- And it was also, you know-
Yeah â¦ the '80s/'90s and- Yeah,

when everybody thought they were safe,
but really Yeah, but really Yeah.

I mean- Really â¦ so long as you
didn't see a- I think we moved, we moved

away from there in early- We moved-

early '90s â¦ yeah, 'cause I got married
in '94, and I had my own room for a year.

Yeah.

We moved from the parsonage
to the house in '93.

Okay.

I was super excited 'cause I'd
never, ever had my own room.

Yeah.

Like, there was always two or three,
sometimes four in bunk beds in a room.

So I had my own room for a year, which my
sister still come in and slept at night

because she did not like being by herself.

So really, technically I didn't ever
really have the room, but it was my

room to decorate- You had a room,
you just didn't get to enjoy it.

Yeah.

So here I am- Yeah â¦ at this age
and still never had a room to myself.

That's okay.

I think I was 16 when I
got my room to myself.

I was- Really?

It was almost the same age.

Yeah.

Did you stay in it or did
you go over with- Yeah.

I, uh, because Joe moved out
into the- Oh, Joe â¦ studio.

Yeah.

So that left a room open for me.

Yeah.

Wow.

But, you know, I'm not complaining.

We, uh, we had a lot of fun.

We did.

Yeah.

Yeah, we did.

I think our imaginations wereâ¦

We could create and make up all
kinds of stuff because we didn't

have anything better to do, so.

Yeah.

And w- and me and Ben were readers,
so we read- Yeah â¦ all the time.

The other two w- they didn't read so much.

But me and Ben, we loved to read.

So I th- I think that created even
more of imagination- Yeah â¦ for us.

So we would make up stuff,
and the other two would just

follow along most of the time.

I mean, Ben's the youngest, but I
really think whatever you said to

do- So he's the youngest, but he
was a, he was one of the leaders.

Yes.

Yeah.

Poor Joe.

He was, like, the leader, and then
you were, like, the, um, wrangler-

I don't- Yes â¦ I feel like.

I don't know if he's gonna listen to
this or not, but I, I will admit, like,

I did most- I'm offended â¦ most of his-
He better be listening â¦ most of his

spankings probably came because of me.

I was gonna say, he probably got in more
trouble because of you than his own self.

Yeah.

Listen, I have, I'm, I'm nearly positive
that I've mentioned on here once already

that you got spankings, like, every
day and deserved more than you got.

Yeah, three square a day.

Yeah.

I saved him from a lot
'cause I felt bad for him.

Yeah.

Anyway.

I felt like, "He got enough
spankings for the day.

Let's save this one."

Yeah.

And just kinda lie about it.

Nope, he was a perfectâ¦

"He's perfect while you
gone, Mom, all the time.

He's perfect.

He doesn't do anything when you're gone."

And then she'd be like,
"Why is he so good?"

Why is he so good?

That's funny.

Yeah.

Um, okay, so you got married at 17.

I got married at 17.

And then, um, and you moved off.

Yes, so- Like, you moved
a couple hours away.

Yeah, I moved to Rogers when we met.

When I met Tim, after we got married, we
moved to Rogers to, um, he had a farm.

They had a farm out-outside of Rogers,
which was another adjustment for me

'cause I'm from a big family with
lots of people, and we didn't haveâ¦

I mean, we had acreage at that point, but
then going to there, he was by hisself.

He didn't have siblings.

Well, he has a older sister, but
she was already gone, like- She was

already out of the house and- Yeah,
they're like 10 years apart, so.

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, so they're not- I don't
think I realized that Wendy

was that much older than him.

Yeah.

Okay.

They're quite a bit.

Uh, so she, you know, by the time
he's old enough to, you know, want

to- Yeah â¦ hang out with a sibling,
she's already a teenager or out.

Yeah.

So, so he was kind of the opposite me.

I come from a big hugger, loving family
who we talk all the time, and loud.

Everybody that's been around mom- Yeah

especially Mom's side, it's loud.

Um, so I come from that, where
we're busy, loud, and he come from

very quiet, no hugging, no, no
emotional, like- Yeah â¦ and yeah.

So- I relate.

I think Ben relates in- Yes â¦ in
his assessment of my mom's

side of the family, who's- Yes.

They sit quietly in a living
room and have quiet conversation.

Yeah.

We, we have civilized conversations.

But yeah.

Yeah, over coffee, tea.

He was, he was like, "Do you guys
like this side of the family?"

And I was like, "Yeah, we love them."

And he was like, "Oh,"
'cause you're justâ¦

It was very quiet, subdued.

Well, I'm quieter, so, like, I'm
probably the quieter one in the family.

Mm-hmm.

So, I mean- I would say so
But it still was an adjustment

'cause I'm used to the noise.

Right.

I don't have to be the loud one,
but I'm used to- Yeah â¦ the noisy

and busyness of, of all the other.

But yeah, I was talking this
morning about that grandma.

So Tim, we metâ¦

When we met, he had, of course,
be introduced to the family.

Mm-hmm.

Grandma's, like, short.

Like, what is she?

Maybe four foot, feet,
like something like that.

Is this your dad's mom?

Yeah.

Nova?

Nova.

Okay.

Yeah.

She m- She's- She might
have been five foot tall.

Not that Shirley was much taller.

No.

Yeah.

She may have been five foot tall.

But, well, if you hear the story,
you'll know exactly how tall.

Okay.

Sorry.

'Cause he, so he walks in the house.

He'sâ¦

This is his first time coming in,
and she comes across the room.

I'm like, "Hey, this is Tim.

Tim, this is my grandma."

And she bear hugs.

Oh.

And he's not really been introdu-
He, like, this is his first- Mm-hmm.

And he's like, in a way, like, so
his arms are around her, but, like,

questioning like, "What is going on?"

Yeah, giving you, like,
a what is happening here?

Yeah.

And I was just like, "You just
gotta, you just gotta take it

'cause she's not gonna let go until
you, like, give a little pat."

So after that, he always come in
and he would just go right to hug,

and that's one of his memories of,
of grandma, was, like, walking into

the house and she was a hugger.

Like- Yeah â¦ like, she would chew you
out if you did something wrong, but she

would hug like crazy, so that was- I
think I only got to meet her once â¦ that

was his introduction- Yeah â¦ to our
family, and after that he's, he still

has, when we leave family things, he
has to go, like, be quiet for a minute.

Which I think you guys have
a, a, a little outlaw texture.

Oh, outlaw?

It's a, umâ¦

What do we call ourselves?

I thought it wasâ¦

Is it not the outlaws?

No, it's not the outlaws.

It's something else.

It's the, um- I can't remember.

I saw the text and- Extras?

I can't remember Plus ones or something.

I don't know.

Whatever it is.

Add-ons.

We're the add-ons.

Add-ons.

There you go.

Like, what is it?

Which I think is so funny- Yeah
â¦ because you all are quieter and- Which is,

is funny because in, like, in my family,
they would not consider me quiet at all.

Yeah.

In fact, I'm probably the loudest one on,
certainly on mom's side of the family.

I don't know about dad's, but-
Well, dad's is definitely quieter.

I wouldn't say on my dad's side, no.

Not on my dad's, no.

I think that squarely
belongs to Kathy Yeah.

Well, Jess is quiet too.

Yeah.

Until you're in a small
group and then you guysâ¦

I think it's just the, when
everybody- Yeah â¦ is at a house.

I think it's just, it still is
sometimes a little overwhelming

for me to try to follow all of the
conversations all at the same time.

Well, I think when you get Mom
and her siblings in the, in the

room- Mm-hmm â¦ that's a lot.

Yes.

'Cause they're all loud.

Loud and all talking- Yeah â¦ all
at the same time to every single

person all at the same time.

Yeah.

But different conversations.

Yeah.

It's a lot.

Isn't it?

Yep.

Anyway.

Yeah.

Tim.

Yep.

We were married.

Yeah.

We, we got married.

In the first year, um, we got pregnant,
I think within the first year.

Were you trying to get pregnant?

No.

Okay.

It was just kind of, you
know- It just kinda happened.

And- You weren't not trying,
but you weren't trying.

Right.

Gotcha.

And the way we were raised, you
don't, you just kind of Children are a

blessing Children are a blessing, and
the sooner the better kind of thing.

Gotcha.

Yeah.

So I mean, I had friends that were
married and having babies as well, so

it wasn't like me getting married at
a young age, nobody else was doing it.

Like, all my friends got married at the
same age, like within this year or two of-

Okay â¦ um, my closest friend got married
like probably six months after I did.

Okay.

So like it wasn't unusual for- It sounds
crazy today- It sounds crazy now â¦ but

in that moment- Yeah â¦ it probably
wasn't quite as- Tim's best friend was

married- Yeah â¦ before we were, so.

I think it needs to be said, we,
we were raised in the Pentecostal

Holiness sort of, uh, movement.

Yeah.

And it was really- It was common

common in that time period forâ¦

I mean, I guess when, whenever you
turned 16, you were like, "All right-

Yeah â¦ when are you getting married?"

Yeah.

It was weird that way, yeah.

It was like an expectation for you to
find your person around 16- Yeah â¦ so

that at 18 you could be married.

Well, I think even younger.

I mean, I started dating- Okay

Tim, or I met Tim when I was 14.

We started dating at 15, got
engaged at 16, married at 17.

Wow.

So it was prettyâ¦

But that again, was not unusual.

Yeah.

I mean, our friends were the
same, dating around the same time,

marrying around the same time.

I will just tell you from my side
of the world, like it's bizarre.

Yeah.

But- I mean, I would, again- I get it.

I understand like inside- Yeah â¦ that,
the Holiness movement and that timeframe,

like that time of life- Looking
back- â¦ is different â¦ I would

choose Tim a million times over, but
I think I would wait till- Yeah â¦ we

were a little bit more mature, 'cause
we did have to grow up a lot together.

Though he did have a job, like- Yeah
â¦ he just, he already had his own place.

He already- Mm-hmm â¦ had his job.

He had a vehicle.

It wasn't like we were getting
married to, and having nothing.

Like he had- Yeah â¦ a job,
car, you know, he was stable.

Um- Yeah.

So yeah.

So I moved to his farm and, um, yeah,
the boys, I think they were there

every summer, like the whole summer.

Yeah.

and Sarah, they would come and stay
because we also had a pool, so, you know.

Yeah, you had the pool.

The whole summer we could- Then we
would- â¦ go to the lake â¦ we would

earn our keep by working on the farm.

Yeah.

We did have a chicken farm,
so we put them- Okay â¦ to

work doing that kind of stuff.

Yeah.

So, um- And it got, a- and I think Mom
liked it because it got us away from- Yeah

the house and gave her some peace.

She got, she got a break,
and then I kind of gotâ¦

It made me not feel so lonely
because- Right, 'cause your-

Yeah â¦ your people came and hang out.

Yeah, my people come.

Yeah.

And they'd come and visited.

I mean, at that time it was like
two and a half, three-hour drive.

Now it's not near as far since
the highway's in, but- Yeah

so they would come.

We would see each other quite
a bit, or I'd come here.

Mm-hmm.

Mostly they would come there
'cause they did like the pool, um-

Yeah â¦ and being able to swim there.

But, um, yeah, so we got pregnant pretty,
I would say within less than a year.

Um, super excited.

Um- Went to camp still that year.

I think that was the last
year I actually went to camp.

Um, got home right after camp, I think,
if I'm remembering the story correctly,

and, uh, I found out I had lost the baby.

And it was like I had to be hospitalized.

It was- Oh â¦ it was like- So you
were far enough along that you needed

to- Yes, I had to be in the hospital.

There was medical care
that needed to be done.

Yeah.

Okay.

Uh, I remember drivingâ¦

Like, I started hurting so bad, they
were rushing me to the emergency room.

And yeah, I'd neverâ¦

Okay, again, we've never been
to the emergency room, hospital.

Yeah.

I've seen a doctor maybe twice
in my life, so this was a

traumatic- Yeah â¦ thing for me.

Um, not only that, but now I
know I'm losing a baby and- Yeah

never been in this position.

Um, and Dad actually come in- Tim gets
really sick- Mm-hmm â¦ with, um, yeah.

So Dad actually come in and,
and stayed the whole visit,

stayed the whole time with me.

Um, and Tim was there.

He just a little bit
more in the background.

Yeah.

Uh- He's a little squeamish.

Yeah.

He's li- he'sâ¦

Yeah, he almost passed
out, I'm sure, a few times.

But, um, yeah, so we d-
we went through that.

That was really tough.

Um, and then, you know, just
went back to life, trying.

Uh, I think we were f- six, maybe
seven years married, still not having

any children, and we decided to,
to start, uh, fertility treatments.

Okay.

So we started fertil- I think that was,
like, s- maybe six years in, maybe seven.

I'm not really sure.

Um, we started doing that.

I don't know if you've ever done
that, but it really- I have not,

but- â¦ messes with your- Yeah.

I've heard it's terrible.

Yeah.

It messes with your emotions.

It, likeâ¦

And all the side effects are the
same as pregnancy side effects, so

you're always like, "Oh, maybe this
is it," only to be like, "Oh, nope.

That was just gas."

So it's not just a roller coaster
in terms of, like, your hormones-

Right â¦ and all of those things.

It's also a psychological roller
coaster- Yes â¦ because you have all

of this hope because of all of the
hormones- Right â¦ and what feels

like this should be- Yes â¦ happening.

Yes.

And then disappointment.

Yes.

And then you have the doctor
saying, "There's no reason

for you not to get pregnant.

You'll probably be pregnant with
twins because this drug has the, uh,

the, the potential for you to have
twins, so prepare yourself for that.

Make sure you're prepared financially."

Gotcha.

All this stuff.

And, and yes, and so your
emotions are everywhere.

Physically, you're feeling-
Yeah â¦ different symptoms.

There's hope that gets really
up there, and then justâ¦

And to say, the doctors were
always like, "There's no reason.

You've already been pregnant once.

There's no reason for
you not to get pregnant."

So it's- Did you have to do a D&C-
I did â¦ when you- With the first

lost that one?

Okay.

Yeah.

So that's off of a, that's another
conversation, but- Well, I'll just say

it 'cause you know, you know how I roll.

But, like, I mean, there are
risks that come with D&Cs.

Obviously, like, it is, it is considered
a safe procedure and, you know, medically

necessary in some cases and whatever.

But any time My physicians have told
me anytime that you do a D&C and you

scrape the lining of the uterus like
that, there is a, a little layer of

scar tissue that forms, and that can
cause, that can cause trouble later.

So like when Ben and I lost,
um, the baby that we were

pregnant with before Chloe, Dr.

Leuders told us that his professional
opinion was like, "Listen, try

to pass this on your own so
that we don't have to do this.

There won't be scar tissue,
and then it won'tâ¦

Like, you can just keep on keeping on."

But, so I was just curious if
that was- Yeah â¦ something

that you had dealt with.

The second one, we just
let it go on its own.

I didn't- Okay â¦ so just the first one.

But also didn't know, they just told me
that's what we had to do, so just- Okay.

Yeah â¦ did it, not familiar
with any of it, but- Yeah.

So yeah, so we did fertility
treatments for a while.

It, it wasâ¦

I can't say for sure how long.

Yeah.

But to the end to where the
doctor's like, "Okay, we can'tâ¦"

Like, we- Like, these aren't working
â¦ this is as far as we're going.

Yeah.

From here, you need to go, I
think at that time it was St.

Louis for IVF- Okay â¦ 'cause
they couldn't do it where we were.

Right.

They said the closest
clinic, I think it was St.

Louis.

It was a ways away.

But, um- Okay â¦ so they're, like,
giving me all the IVF, like, information.

Mm-hmm.

Cost.

So we just started researching that,
and in the process of researching

that, Tim had heard an ad on, I
think he was listening to a Christian

radio station, and they did an ad
for an adoption agency, and he's just

like, "Hey, I'm gonna reach out."

He didn't even tell me.

He's just like, "I'm gonna reach
out and just get some information."

Like, "Hey- Mm-hmm â¦ how
much is adoption?

How long is it?"

Like, just getting information.

Mm-hmm.

So he called.

They took his name down, his
address, and I think that's it.

Yeah.

And then he's like, "Hey, I justâ¦

We may get a pack in the
mail," 'cause I justâ¦

I was like, "Okay."

And, um, I think that was in
May And at this time, we was

traveling for our pastor.

We were traveling with him.

He would go around Missouri,
Arkansas, into Oklahoma a

little bit, and they would sing.

So we would travel, help set up,
help- Okay â¦ just help with that.

So we were traveling around and, um,
we was in Missouri, and I'm sitting

down 'cause I'd already helped.

They were loading up the last of
the equipment, and I'm sitting there

and, um, this, this guy come in.

It was so crazy.

This guy come in in overalls.

He looked like he'd just
come out of the, umâ¦

It looked like he'd just come
out of the field working.

Like, I don't even thinkâ¦

I think he may have had, like, a white
T-shirt, but it was, like, dirty overalls.

Okay.

Um, he come in and he looked at
me and he said, "You're gonna

have a baby in September."

And I'm like, "Dude, this is-" You're
like, "Buddy, I'm not pregnant."

"â¦ this is May.

I'm not pregnant."

Yeah.

Like, "I don't know what
you're talking about."

So I was justâ¦

I'm always friendly.

I'm like, "Thank you so much," um,
you know, "We'll pray about it."

Um, and then he walked out, and
Tim walked in right behind him.

I said, "Tim, did you see that guy?"

He goes, "What guy?"

And so I was like, "He had aâ¦"

I described him.

He says, "I didn't see anybody."

So I went to the people that,
uh, the pastor of the church,

and then I described him.

He goes, "We was standing
outside the door.

Nobody has walked in or
out of that door at all."

Hmm.

And I'm like, "Hmm."

Like, "All right.

That makes it weird."

So I was just like, "Well, that's weird."

But all right.

Put, put it on the back burner.

Yeah.

Go on with life.

So that was in May.

In June, um, we're just doing our
farm work, and Tim gets a call, and

it's, uh, the adoption agency, and
she's like, "Is this Tim Bernard?"

And he's like, "Yes."

And she's like- I had this mom
come in today, and she was, uhâ¦

She's wanting to give up
her baby for adoption.

And whenever she was telling me
her story, she goes, "All I could

hear was your name the whole time."

She said it was like you're supposed
to- you are supposed to be the parent.

Wow.

You and your wife.

And she's like, "I just feel like you
need to, you know, pray about it."

And, um, she's like, "I have, I think,
five other couples ahead of you."

Um, but we had no preference.

Like, I didn't care if it
was- Right â¦ a little boy.

I didn't care- Yeah â¦ anything.

Um, but she's like, they told us it'd be
a couple years, is what they had told him.

Anyway, um, he got off the phone and
immediately called his parents and

was like, "Hey, this is going on.

What do you think?"

And they're like, "Uh, go sign the papers.

We're paying for the whole adoption."

Wow.

Yeah, so they paid for everything.

Wow.

Um- That's incredible â¦ so they
wrote a check, whatever we had to have.

They wrote it, and we wentâ¦

We met here in Russellville, actually.

We met halfway 'cause it was, uh- Oh, wow.

'Cause they were in Memphis, right?

They were in Little Rock.

Oh, they were in Little Rock.

But she was from Memphis.

Oh, okay.

So, um, yeah.

So we met in Russellville, did the pap-
signed the paperwork, did everything,

give them the check, and he, umâ¦

I was sitting at the table,
and I'm like, "Can you just

tell me when the due date was?

When, when it is?"

And she's like, "Oh, it's, um, September."

And I'm like, "Are you kidding me?"

She's like, "No," her due
date, and she said the date.

And I'm like, everything come back.

Everything that God said.

Yeah.

I'm like, "Oh my gosh."

And then I had these little
worries about she's gonna back out.

But every time I had that little
thought pop up of like, "She's

gonna back out," I would remember
the, the, the guy come in and say,

"You're having a baby by September."

And, and whenever I say that,
like, that was not the first time

someone's come in and given us a word.

Like- Right â¦ we had been told so
many times in the nine years that, "Oh,

you're gonna have a baby by such and
such date," and it wouldn't happen.

So like- Yeah â¦ to say I was
doubting, like, I had heard words- Right

for theâ¦

People, bless their heart, love
to try to give you a great-

Speak in faith â¦ words.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

And, and you know, I'm great if
that's what God has- Yep â¦ is

what God has, and I'm all for it.

But maybe sometimes keep
those words to yourself.

But yeah, I mean- Just know that
you know- Just know that you

know them â¦ that you heard.

Um, but yeah, so those
have been a lot ofâ¦

You probably heard some.

Of what?

Words spoken over us in those times.

Yeah, but yeah, it's- 'Cause you were
in the same- When the, when the quality

of the character is pretty low, then the
word's probably not gonna be very good.

That's true.

Oh.

That's okay.

Welcome to life- â¦ thoughts with Ben.

Yes.

I love it.

Um, so yeah.

So sometimes when you hear something,
I just always try to surrender it.

"All right, Lord, if
that's you, then okay."

But I want, I want to have faith
even when things don't go the

way I, I think they should.

So this was, by the time he was
born, I think we'd been married

He was born in 2003 2003, so nine years.

Yeah.

Nine years.

So yeah.

So yeah, he was born in
September, and we got the phone

call and straight away wentâ¦

He was supposed to be born in Arkansas.

Mm-hmm.

But she had complications, so
they had to move her, like, it

was five minutes over the line.

So because of that five minutes, we
had to spend two or three weeks in

Memphis- Oh, yeah â¦ to get the Arkansas
state, yeah, to cross back over, so.

Otherwise, yeah, it's kidnapping, so.

I can't do that.

Can't do that.

But thankfully, like, the whole
process, everything was paid.

Yeah.

Everything was paid.

Uh, we only had to pay
for our gas and our food.

Everything else was provided for.

The Lord just provided everything.

Um, we had baby showers where, you
know, he had plenty of clothes.

Yeah.

Everything we needed, 'cause it was fast.

It was very fast.

Yeah.

And you were there at that point.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

I was like, you were there.

So we come back from the hospital, I
think all you guys were at the house.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

It was exciting stuff.

Yeah, he was so cute and so little.

He was so little and sweet.

He's so sweet.

He's still sweet, not so little.

He was a good baby, too.

He was such a good baby.

Yeah.

I mean, he was sleeping all night,
like- Yeah â¦ within a month.

Oh.

Yeah.

I know.

Didn't happen for the other ones, but
that one- Well â¦ he was a sleeper.

Yeah.

He was such a good baby.

Yeah.

So that was, that was Kaden's story.

I don't remember much of that time period.

It was a lot of blur through there.

A lot of blur.

I don't know.

It's just, I don't remember it.

Mm.

Well, it's hard.

Oh, is itâ¦

Yeah, you and, you guys
were married at that point.

Yeah.

Yeah, we got married- Yeah, we were
married â¦ between, yeah â¦ we

were, we were living there, um- We
were living in- Yeah, we were living-

a hard road â¦ yeah.

Yeah.

We were living in, um, Lowell, I think-
Yeah, you guys- In Lowell at that point?

Yeah, 'cause- Yeah â¦ you li- 'Cause
we were living in Lowell when, um,

when we got pregnant with Chloe.

Yeah.

I babysat- Oh, that's right â¦ you
guys were, I think you were Pea

Ridge area- Yeah â¦ when you guys-
Well, Chloe's younger than Kade.

Yeah.

So- By a year.

Yeah.

Not quite a- Not
quite â¦ not quite a year.

Yeah.

But- Yeah, that was another situation
that was kinda hard because, you

know, I've been waiting nine years-
Mm-hmm â¦ and then Joe had Shay

before we had- Kaden â¦ Kaden.

Yeah.

But he, but she was pregnant with
Shay before we found out about

Kaden, so that was a hard- Yeah

that was hard, too.

Not because I was- Mm-hmm â¦ you know,
it was just, you're walking through this

process, and- I remember â¦ you know,
they hadn't been together very long.

Yeah.

And I'm like, "This isn't-" And it
was a surprise, and- "â¦ fair."

It was a surprise.

Mm-hmm.

And I'm like, "This isn't fair."

And so sometimes in
life you just gotta- Yep

realize it's, it's not always gonna
be fair, but God has the perfect plan.

Like- Yeah â¦ I would- I remember when
Ben and I first, first started talking,

like, we weren't dating at all even.

One of the first conversations that
we had, um, I mean, we, we talked

for, like, I don't know, three hours
on the phone that night, and I, I

remember telling him about having had
an abortion, and he very honestly, as,

you know, uh, Ben doesn't- Does he?

tend to keep his thoughts
to himself very often.

Um, but he, he straight up
just was asking me, like, "Why

did you not consider adoption?

Why did you not?"

And I was like, "I just didn't."

Yeah.

You know?

Like, I'm looking back, like, yes.

Yeah.

Like, that would be a thing.

And he was like, "I just, I have
a hard time 'cause I've watched

my sister really struggle."

And, and then I remember when I met
you, I was like, "I have to deal with

the fact that this woman is begging for
a baby, and I terminated a pregnancy.

I can't wrap my head around this.

How do I, how do I face her?"

You know?

And then having met you, I'm like,
"Oh, she's gracious, and she's

kind, and it's gonna be okay."

Yeah.

I was like, Well, 'cause God's a redeemer.

He doesn't- Yeah â¦ hold
anything against us.

Yeah.

And we can't hold it against
ourselves or against each other-

Right â¦ 'cause then we're not
following after Him if we do that, so.

Yeah.

Umâ¦

But- He loves us no matter what.

We always, everybody messes up, so.

Yeah.

But yeah.

Well, I was a babysitter, too.

I, like, I think I've
been babysitting- Seven.

Probably, well, since you were born.

I was like, not even.

Was I five?

I don't even know if I was five yet.

Yeah.

Yeah, I was five.

Uh, I think so, yeah.

I was barely five.

Just barely.

Yeah, just barely five.

Yeah, you think you were five.

No, you may have been four.

No, I was five.

No.

It couldn't have been.

You just turned five.

Uh, I just turned five in May-
'Cause I was born in June, yeah,

so â¦ and you were born in June, so.

Yep.

Oh, that, can you imagine?

And there's what, 15- Oh
yeah, today's Ben's birthday.

Today's Ben's birthday.

Happy birthday.

Happy Birthday Ben.

Happy birthday, Ben.

Happy birthday.

Uh- I mean, this'll be later, but
you know, won't be when it airs.

Right.

That's g- 'cause there's what,
15 months between you and Sarah?

Yeah.

And then- 11 months from- Between-
I don't know how, how many months is

between Sarah and- Almost two years.

Is it almost two?

Not quite, yeah, 'cause she's
born in August, he's born in-

'Cause when I was born, mom said
she had four kids five and under.

Yeah.

I don't see how she did it.

I don't either.

Me neither.

Mine, mine are weirdly
seven years apart, each one.

Each one is seven years apart?

From Kaden to Healing is seven,
from Healing to Zadok is seven.

That's crazy.

Isn't that crazy?

I didn't even realize it till I was
having this conversation- Well- â¦ with

someone and I'm like, "What?"

That's a, that's a, a
good biblical number.

I know.

Yeah, it is.

I've heard it.

I've heard it is.

I'm like, "I don't like it."

I wanted them closer together because we
were- Wow â¦ always like best friends.

Maybe that seven is just God reminding you
that he's- Yes â¦ he's kept his promise.

He has kept his promise.

Yep.

So- Wow

we did have Kaden.

Mm-hmm.

Kaden was a handful and he was sweet baby.

As he got taller age, he was a handful,
but he was- Yeah â¦ still sweet.

He was my cuddle bug.

We cuddled a lot.

Uh- Yeah.

We always was, yeah, it was me and him
against the world most of the time.

Tim worked and went to school, but
he was around there for him, too.

But, uh, yeah, at that point is we
started transitioning out of the farm.

Okay.

I think, well, I guess we
still had the farm till Healing

was born, so seven years, so.

But when Kaden turned five, yeah, when he
turned five, he woke up one morning and

he's like, "Mom, I'm having a sister."

I'm like, "Okay."

"Yay.

Okay."

So I'm like, all right, this
is, he's something where- Yeah

I wasn't sure.

I was like, "Well, we're not gonna
discourage it," 'cause we had been praying

for another, to have another baby, and I
think at this point we also was fostering,

um- Right, I remember- Yeah, we fostered
â¦ the time when we were fostering, yeah.

We were gonna just try fostering
to adopt at that point.

Okay.

Um, I think it was at this point.

Yeah.

So we had, um, we had
kids in and out, but-

Tim had got, this is when Tim had
got a word from the Lord and he,

he said, "We're having a daughter."

He goes, "I don't know
what it looks like."

Which he had had a word with Kaden that
we were having a son, and we thought

we were going to birth a son- Mm-hmm

but that's not what God had planned.

He planned something different.

So whenever he said we're
gonna have a daughter, I was

like, "What does that mean?"

Okay, so yeah.

And he was like, "I don't- However
this happens, yeah â¦ I don't know.

God didn't give me instructions
on how it was happening.

I'm just telling you this is happening."

Yeah.

So, um, I trusted that.

I was like, "Okay, well we're
having one at some point."

At, at, you know, at It's nine
years for Kaden, so I'm like, at

this point I know God doesn't do
things always immediately and that-

Yeah â¦ I need to just be patient.

And I have Kaden, so I'm like, you
know, I have Kaden and we have kids

coming out of our home, so we'reâ¦

You know, I'm doing the best to mother
the ones that I have the opportunity to,

and I wasn't trying to worry about it.

But, um, he goes, "If we
was to have a daughterâ¦"

I don't even know if
you've heard this story.

"If we was to have a daughter,
what would you name her?"

Well, we had Kaden, so I said, "I
would name her, I don't know, Keely."

Oh.

And I just thought that was a cool name.

Okay.

Yeah.

He heard Healing.

Oh.

Yeah.

So he's like, "I love it."

So in my mind, thinking Keely.

His mind, he's thinking Healing.

And I'm like, "Okay."

So we're talking to
someone, and they're likeâ¦

He's like, "Yeah, the Lord's
giving us a daughter and her

name is gonna be Healing."

And I'm like, "What are you talking about?

No, we can't torture our
kid with a name like that."

Torture our kid.

Like, she'sâ¦

'Cause everybody always says- Yeah â¦ you
name your kid, like- You gotta do the-

â¦ what are they gonna say on the playground?

You gotta do the playground test-
Yeah, you gotta do the playground test

and the, the wedding invitation
test and the job interview test.

Yes.

All of that.

Like, what are they gonna
be called to school?

Yeah.

And all theseâ¦

So I'm like, "We can't do that to her."

And, um, I was talking to someone
and I'm like, "Can you believe this?

Heal- or Tim wants to name
our daughter Healing."

And they're like, "Oh my gosh,
that is beautiful with what all

you guys have walked through."

Yeah.

Like, that's perfect.

And it was like, "Ugh."

So I went and I told God, I'm
like, "I don't really know whatâ¦

I don't know if this is right."

And I heard Him say, "No, her name
is to be Healing, because when she

comes, she's going to bring healing."

And I'm like, "Okay.

All right, I'll surrender that to you."

Yeah.

And Tim never knew I said
Keely till like- Like- I mean-

was Healing here and like was it years
after Healing was born, and then you

were like, "No, really, I thought her
name-" I think- "â¦ was gonna be Keely"?

I think I was telling theâ¦

I wa- I think I was, umâ¦

He was talking about how
Heal- that I had pickedâ¦

And I'm like, "I didn't pick that out.

I said Keely."

He goes, "Oh, I heard Healing."

And I'm like, "I just
thought you pickedâ¦"

No, he's like, "I thought you picked it."

And I was like, "No, you did."

So we was just having this argument,
and I was like, "I said Keely."

He goes, "Oh, I didn't hear that."

So I was like, "Okay, that was the Lord."

I feel like it was the Lord just- Yeah
â¦ 'cause why would you hear Healing?

Like- Yeah â¦ that's notâ¦

So, um, I heard that word that that was
to be her name, and then her middle name's

Reyne- Mm-hmm â¦ because we just, umâ¦

I like the name Reyne, and
it had significant meaning-

Yeah â¦ with her name.

It just- It's like healing reigns
in our- Yeah â¦ in our household.

So, um, and she has
brought so much healing.

But, um, yeah, so Kaden
started saying that at five.

Uh, and we actually had a baby come
into our house that, uh, we was

planning on adopt- Like, she was
from the hospital baby come in.

Yeah.

And I was like, "Okay, this is it.

This is-" This is the daughter.

This is the daughter.

Yeah.

And we went before the court,
like all the caseworkers saidâ¦

Was you guys here for that?

I don't know- Uh-huh â¦ if
you were still- Yeah.

Caseworkers said, "This is it."

You know, they don't ever take a
drug baby back into the situation.

No.

Like, this baby is yours.

So we, we went in the court confident.

We, you know.

Yeah.

And we get in there, and the judge
is like, "Oh, no, we're gonna send

this baby back to its mom inâ¦

as she was in rehab, and you're
gonna work with the mom to

get back into, to the family."

And I'm like kidding me?

Not only are you taking away, but
I have to go in- Yeah, I have to

help â¦ and I have to help with this.

I have to help facilitate- This
is- â¦ the loss of- Yes â¦ of-

Yeah â¦ what I'm thinking is my baby.

Yeah, it had been eight weeks.

Yeah.

Like, I had been- This was the one that-
â¦ baby â¦ that you- Sweet little baby.

Yeah.

She, this baby just loved Ben.

Ben was like- Yes â¦ he was baby
whisperer, and she would just snuggle

up on Ben's chest- But, yeah, when
she- â¦ and pass out â¦ when she was

born, she had drugs in her system, so-
Yeah â¦ she wasn't, she wasn't as fussy

as I thought she would be, but she, she
definitely needed to be cuddled- Yeah

and held a lot.

And I was happy to do it, yeah.

And he was- Yeah â¦ happy to do it, yeah.

So this was hard, 'cause
it was eight weeks.

We thought that was it.

Yeah.

You know?

Um, but no.

No.

Uh, so Kaden saw, started sayingâ¦

So for two years, Kaden would
tell people we were having a baby.

And, you know, people kept
going- "When's the baby due?"

And I'm like, "I don't know."

Uh, "I don't know."

"I don't know.

Maybe Kaden should tell us."

"I don't know.

Maybe Kaden should tell us
when this is happening."

Yeah.

Um, yeah, so he, um, he told one of
his friends, "I'm having a baby sister.

I saw her."

And his friend's like, "No, you're not.

Your mom's not having a baby."

And she- he goes, "Excuse me, I saw her."

And so he was very confident.

He was having a sister.

Yeah.

He saw her, and that was it.

Like, he would not, I- He wasn't letting
this go â¦ he was not letting it go.

He was not backing down.

So that, that was a good two
years of him saying that.

Uh, he wouldn't say it, like,
every day, but he would say it off

and on, and he would tell people.

And I had people in the store, they'd be
like, he'd be like, "I'm having a sister,"

and they'd be like, "Congratulations."

And I'm like, "Well, thank you."

And I'm like, "Don't know
when it's happening."

But, um, but yeah, one day I was
sitting at, at church, and, uh,

one of my best friends come over,
and she, she had been walkingâ¦

You know Holly.

She's- Yeah.

Mm-hmm â¦ she's still one
of my really good friends.

Um, she said, "I just hear
the Lord saying it's time."

And she's like, "I just, I don't normally
say these kind of things, but I just

feel like the Lord's saying it's time."

The next week I was at church, and I
threw up all over the, the back room.

And I was like, "Go get Tim immediately."

Like, it was unexpected.

And she come up and she's like- It's time.

And I found out, like, the next
week I was pregnant with Healing.

So, but you didn't
think you were pregnant.

No, I thought- You thought you had the flu

I thought I had the flu.

Yeah.

I thought I was sick, and
I thought I had the flu.

So I didn't find out I was pregnant with
her until I was almost 12 weeks along.

Yeah.

I remember- Around 13,
something like that.

I can't remember â¦ I remember
you calling me and telling

me, and I was like, "What?"

Yeah.

And you said, "I went to the doctor.

I thought I had the flu," and they were
like, "We're gonna do a pregnancy test."

And you were like, "Okay."

And then they said, "Well, what
are you doing for birth control?"

And you were like,
"Infertility for 15 years."

Yeah.

"We haven't done anything ever."

Like, it's 15â¦

Yeah, 'cause she was 15 years in.

Yeah.

Like, we had been married
15 years when she wasâ¦

So- It's just crazy â¦ it was just crazy
'cause it was out of nowhere and- And

then they were like, "Well, guess what?"

Yeah, yeah.

"You are in fact pregnant."

I, it wasâ¦

I- â¦ still shocked.

I know.

Like, still, like, there
are moments I just, like-

It was so exciting It was.

It was, it was Still remember those days.

It wasâ¦

I was so sick, butâ¦

And then- And then y- But- I remember
you distinctly telling me that you

felt bad- Oh â¦ to complain about any
aspect- Yes â¦ of pregnancy 'cause you

had been begging for it for so long, and
you were like, "But it is kinda rough."

I kept keeping- Yeah, it is â¦ my
head down for, like, the first while.

I was so sick.

And then once the sickness was
over, I craved sweets like crazy.

Yeah.

And I'm like, "I just want
cookies and brownies."

That's not good.

And then she wouldn't move, so
they'd make me drink orange juice.

Mm-hmm.

'Cause she did w- like, I think it
was six, six months in, I started

having a little bit of problems.

I had to beâ¦

I think I had to stay in bed for,
like, a week, which was another

thing, 'cause you're like- Yeah

"This was a promise."

Yep.

"God, you're not taking a
promise away"- No â¦ "right?"

And, and devil, neither are you.

Yeah.

You know?

So I'm like, "No."

So I just really listened to worship music
through that and just like, "I'm not,

I'm not gonna allow the, the thought,
the negative thoughts to come in.

I'm, you know, this is,
this is what the Lord has."

Yeah.

So, and she was born.

She was beautiful.

Yes.

After Healing Reyne.

It was funny 'cause everybody was there.

Mm-hmm.

The whole family- Yeah â¦ had
come in for, for that.

Yep.

Yeah, 'cause there was just,
like, a rotating people coming in.

I remember with her name, I remember,
um, being told that you were naming her

Healing, and I remember going, "Oh, no."

Like, kind of similar- Yeah.

Like, I did not know that
you ever doubted the name.

Oh, yes.

And so I think Tim is the one that
told me, and I was like, "Okay.

Healing Reyne.

Are we gonna call her Reyne?"

And he was like, "No."

And I was like, "Oh, oh, okay."

And then I was telling Ben, I'm
like, "Ben, what are we gonna do?"

He goes, "I'm calling that kid Reyne."

I was like, "Ok- okay."

But then she was born, and it was like,
no, her, like- Yeah â¦ Healing fit.

It did.

And we've never called her Reyne.

No.

She- Since she was born, it was like,
"Okay, she's Healing Reyne" Yeah.

I think Dad tried to call her HR a
couple of times, and I'm like- HR?

HR.

No.

I was like, "HR is not
gonna work, Dad, no."

And she was called, uh, Tim's
dad called her Sweet Pea.

Well, that's different.

It was sweet.

Yeah.

It was sweet for him 'cause
he called her Sweet Pea.

Yeah.

And he would say her name.

He just- Yeah â¦ he was
just like, "Hey, Sweet Pea."

And it just- Yeah â¦ fit, too.

Exactly.

It was like, it was cute.

Like, that's a differentâ¦

It was a wholeâ¦

That's a term of endearment.

Yeah.

That's not trying to, you know,
change a name- Yeah â¦ or be like me.

And sheâ¦

No, when she went into, I think,
sixth grade, she tried to go by

Reyne, and I think she did it for,
like, a week, and it just didn't fit.

Yeah.

Like, it was just like, mm.

Doesn't feel right.

Yeah.

Mm-mm.

And I don't everâ¦

Like, I'm like, "You know,
I'm not gonna argue with you.

Healing's your name.

Reyne's your name."

Yeah.

I'm not, you know, I'm not.

Yeah.

But she's, she's- She's
Healing â¦ she's, she's Healing.

Yeah.

Healing, Healing Reyne.

Um, but yeah, she, she's so sweet.

I s- we're so, I mean- Mm-hmm
â¦ she's like a little bestie.

Um- Listen, you can't say that because
I have to deal with Chloe expecting me

to, like, have her be my best friend,
and I have told her since she was itty

bitty, like, "We're not best friends.

We're not best friends.

I'm your mama.

We're not best friends.

We'll be buddies later when you're grown."

And she has held me to that.

Like, she turned 18, she was
like, "Now are we best friends?"

I can be her mom- I'm like,
"Ugh" â¦ and her best friend.

I can be her mom when I need to be.

Yeah.

I can come in and be like, "Uh, no."

Yeah.

And I do, but- Yeah â¦ we also
go do our nails, and we hang out-

Oh, I mean, like Chloe and I hang
out â¦ and talk about like, you know-

But she also, she gave me a hard time.

Yeah.

Well, Chloe and Healing are-
That was his fault, though.

Chloe and Healing are two
different- The people can't see

the look he just cut me, but- Yeah.

No, I- They're cousins, but
they're different â¦ that,

that, so in that period ofâ¦

I just wanted peace.

So did I.

She was very resistant.

Good old teenage years.

Yes.

That's it.

Yeah, but look who her dad is.

Like- Well, exactly â¦ if we
wanna talk about teenage years.

I was fine.

He was fine.

Three square whoopings
a day, but he was fine.

No, well- â¦ the last time I got
three square a day was 13 or 14.

And when were we having the most
trouble with Chloe, 13 and 14?

13 to 15.

13 wasâ¦

Or 12 to

13 was rough with Healing.

Yeah.

It's like, "Who are you?"

Right.

"What happened to my sweet little girl?"

Like- Yeah â¦ and then she was fine.

And then- Yeah, Chloe- I mean, we still
have our moments â¦ Chloe was fine.

She gotâ¦

Chloe became fine when she was 18.

When she went away to
college, she became fine.

She was all right- I love Chloe

before then, but- I love hanging
out with Chloe â¦ I love her

to death, but- She's so fun.

Yeah.

She's- She's a hoot now.

She is.

I love Owen too.

He's, he, him and Kaden are so much alike.

Oh my gosh, remind me to tell you about
my lunch I had with Owen yesterday.

Wow.

Let's not say it in the microphone.

Well, I mean, I can edit it out.

This isn't live.

That's true.

Yeah, that's a good thing she can edit.

Yeah.

Um- Like delete So yeah, Healing
was born, and that was amazing.

Yeah.

We had, uhâ¦

At that point we, I think when she
turned two, we, we left the farm.

So we had beenâ¦

Tim was born and raised on this farm.

Uh, it's 50 acres, chickens, cows, horses.

What else did we have?

Dogs.

Whatever.

I mean, anything you wanted.

I'm asking- Yeah.

I'm asking Ben because he
was there about as much.

I feel like they were there-
I was there for a long time.

Yeah.

They were, they would
come, uh, like literally.

The creek was there.

We'd be in the creek.

They would swing across the creek in the
grapevines and, like they were there a

lot, and doing a lot and helping a lot.

Um, so we were there until she was
two, and then we di- we didn't sell.

We justâ¦

Well, we sold the land that we was
on, but that wasn't the farm land.

Yeah.

Like we had a, a couple acres
and a house outside of the farm.

And so we sold that and moved to
Centerton, which is like 40 minutes away.

Yeah.

Something like that.

So that was the first time we had
been away from family, like whether

it be, like Tim's family or just-
Just across the field or, yeah.

Yeah.

Like, 'cause Kaden, like as soon
as Kaden could walk, he would walk

to Mamaw's, which is Tim's mom.

Yeah.

He would walk over there, and then
sometimes he would walk to his

great-grandma's house, which is,
again, he had great-grandma, uncle,

mom and dad, sister, like- Yeah

all on this, this a- area.

Yeah.

And so, you know, we never had to worry.

He had this little dog that would follow
him to Mamaw's, and then Mamaw would

walk with him over to great-grandma's.

And so it was just always family.

But I think we had to grow up.

I think we had to move away from it
so we could grow up and just like

become a- Like stand on your own.

Yes.

Yeah.

'Cause we had neverâ¦

I mean, I went from my family to his
family farm, and there's always, always

something, always someone there, always.

Um, so it was, it was, uh, different
for sure going to, to moving there.

But we also had friends within
walking distance that- Mm-hmm â¦ were

our kids' ages, so we just had a
little- There was still community.

Yeah, there was still community.

Yeah.

So we always had something.

But yeah, cute little pictures of the
girls driving Barbie cars down the road.

Oh my gosh.

It's so great.

It's such cute memories we had of them.

But, um, yeah, when Healing
was six, we got pregnant

again, and that was unexpected.

Um, 'cause at this point, when you've
waited 15 years and had a baby and then

it's been five, you're just like, um-
You're like, "Okay, I have the one."

We have, we have-
Yeah â¦ we have the one.

We have Kaden.

Yeah.

We have Healing.

I'm s- I'm happy.

Mm-hmm.

Um, if we have another one, great.

If we don't, not worried about it.

Mm-hmm.

So I got pregnant.

We were super excited about it.

I don't even know if weâ¦

Had we announced it?

Mm-hmm.

I think we had just announced it.

Yeah.

And then the next week, found
out the heartbeat had stopped.

Yeah.

And then we went through
that, that process of just

naturally we didn't have- Yeah.

That one wasn't as traumatic as
the first one, but still sad.

And then this time, you're having
to also talk to your children

who- Right â¦ were very excited.

Who were excited.

Yeah.

Um, Healing especially, she
thought, "It's gonna be a girl."

Mm-hmm.

And she's super excited about it, and
then I have to now explain, "Heyâ¦"

And she took it so well.

Like, she was crying a little
bit, but she wasn't like As

bad as I thought it would be.

Yeah.

But it still, it hurt.

And I had people going, "I can't
believe God did that to you

after you've waited so long."

Like- And, and whenever I was
going through- Sometimes people

just need to shut their mouth.

Like, ugh.

Um, well, before we even knew the
heart, like I knew something was wrong.

I knew something was off.

I actually told Tim,
"Can we not announce?"

Because I felt off.

Mm-hmm.

And he was like, "No, I'm super excited.

We need to let family know.

We need to get, you know, the word out
because, you know- Yeah â¦ he's excited."

And I'm like, I just felt off, but
I couldn't pinpoint why I felt off.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, it was hard to, to do that.

But as soon as he announced,
then that's when theâ¦

And I had, you know, people coming up and
like, "Hey, you know, God isn't gonna just

bless you with a baby and take it away.

Like, that's notâ¦"

And I'm like, "Well, I mean, I'm not
saying it's God, but it like, the

heartbeat's not beating, so-" Yeah.

"â¦ you know, it's, it's-" Like, okay, cool.

"Unless it's, you know-" What
are you suggesting is happening?

Like, we're praying.

Yeah.

We're believing, we're having faith.

Yeah.

So once that happened, I, uh,
we, we, Tim and I went out, and

we- we're like, "We're done.

We're done.

I don't, I don't like this back and forth.

I don't like this maybe we're
having a baby, maybe we're not.

I'm done."

And we're satisfied
with the family we have.

And we're gonna haveâ¦

That's what, that's what- Yep â¦ we
have two, we have two amazing kids.

I'm done.

Yeah.

And he's like, "I'm done."

And so, um, we, we went and, so he made
an appointment, and I don't think I had

made one, but he had made an appointment.

So it got close to his appointment time,
and we went on a date again just to

kinda be like, "Are we sure we're done?

This is where, you know- Yeah â¦ if
we're done, if I do this, we're done.

Like- Yeah â¦ there's no going back."

And I'm like, "Eh, I'm done."

And we was on a bike ride 'cause we
loved riding our bikes against Centerton,

you know how you have those- Yeah

trails you can go.

Everywhere.

So we were going, you know, we were
riding all over Bentonville, Rogers.

So we rode, we rode to one of our
favorite places and was sitting there,

and we had eaten something, and I got
up, and it was hot, and I just went over

to get on my bike and just got sick.

I was so sick.

And I'm like, "I think I overheated."

He's like, "Let's go home."

So we went home, and I was
sick for a couple of days.

Again, went to the doctor, found out.

Like, he had, he was going to the
thing, to the appointment, and I'm,

like, finding out I'm pregnant.

Yep.

And it was a complete surprise, so yeah.

It's funny because I always told God
I don't wanna have babies after 40.

God, you got to â¦ Like,
if I'm not having a baby by

40, I'm not having a baby.

Like, I'm done.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I, I also told God- Isn't it funny
when we tell God what's happening?

I also said, after healing,
I said, "You know what?

I'm done.

Quit giving me words," and
they're, like, seven years out.

Like, I'm tired of this.

Like, I'm always waiting, and
I'm â¦ I literally told God, "If

I'm to â¦ If you're giving me
another baby, just surprise me.

Don't tell me ahead of time."

I'm tired of waiting.

Like- Yeah â¦ is it gonna happen?

How's it gonna happen?

'Cause I like to make things happen.

And- Yeah â¦ so just don't tell me.

And he didn't tell me.

I did not, we did not have
any word on Zadok at all.

Wow.

Nothing.

Like, God didn't say to Tim,
"Hey, you're having another one."

He didn't say anything to me.

So that's like, hey, God isn't speaking
to us about it, so we're just done.

And Kaden didn't say anything.

Kaden- Healing didn't say anything
â¦ Kaden didn't see a brother.

Healing saw a sister.

She did not see a brother.

She was- Well, maybe the one that you
lost was the sister â¦ I don't know.

She will- I don't know.

We'll find out in heaven.

We will find out.

She was not happy when she found
out we're having a boy, though.

I think she's still a
little bitter about it.

Well, I mean, but also she gets
to be the only girl, you know?

Well, I also said I don't think
I could handle another girl.

You are so sweet.

They're expensive.

Yeah.

You're expensive, too.

Mm-hmm.

She's a teenager, and I'm like,
"Get a job," which she has now.

Yeah.

Man.

Yeah.

But yeah, Z was a complete surprise.

And Zadok, another uncommon name,
but- Mm-hmm â¦ uh, his name

is biblical, it's in the Bible.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, he was a priest, um, for King David.

And also, Tim's mom is a family
researcher, so she does genealogy.

And so when his familyâ¦

So Tim's family come over
on the Mayflower- Really?

â¦ like ancestors.

Yeah, they are like- Yeah â¦ all
the way back to the Mayflower.

So the first Bernard to come over on the
Mayflower was, uh, Zadok Bernard, so- Hmm

that's where his name came from.

I did not know that either.

Yeah, 'cause Tim- That's pretty cool.

Here I thought you were just, you know,
pulling out weirdo names from the Bible.

No.

Never.

'Cause I feel like at one point,
didn't Tim tell me, like I think he was

saying- Oh, God â¦ he wanted to name
something like Hezekiah or something?

Eli oh no.

Oh, no, it was worse than- What was it?

â¦ Elimelech.

Elimelech, that's right.

Yes.

Yeah.

Elimelech and call him Eli.

I'm like, "No, no."

Uh, Melchizedek was one.

Yeah.

I'm like, "No."

Yeah.

Which I think Zadok is still
a form of Melchizedek, but-

Still â¦ it's still better thanâ¦

And we call him Z most of
the time, but, um- Yeah

yeah.

It, that, so that, Tim is like, uh, his
family's like Edward, Edward, Edward, and

so- Mm-hmm â¦ uh, so we- He was like,
"I'm not doing it" â¦ kinda like the way.

Yeah.

Um, and he did not want to name his chi-
his son, like we didn't name Kaden family.

He's like, "I'm not naming the
son- Yeah â¦ family either."

Uh, but it is kinda family, but
it's not the- Right, it's not Edward

yeah, so.

And Kaden is just Kaden.

Like- Yeah â¦ it fits him.

He thanks me, "Mom, thank you for
not giving me a weird name like Eli."

Your own name.

Uh, but yeah, like he,
he, his name fits him.

Yep.

I couldn't seeâ¦

We, we did have an unusual name for him.

What was that?

Um, I think we were gonna
call him, what was it?

Was it Cademan?

Maybe it wasn't super,
but it was different.

Yeah.

But we just did Kaden because we were
told by the adoption agency, "Hey,

don't do super uncommon names 'cause
it could persuade the, the decision

of the mom differently because- Oh,
okay â¦ you know how the name is.

But you can always change
it after to whatever.

But I liked it.

It's Kaden Josiah.

Yeah.

I'm like, I liked it
then, I still like it.

Yeah.

It fits him.

It does fit him.

It does fit him, so Yeah.

We did, um, the other two are very
unco- oh, we-- Zadok's name is

actually Canyon Zadok, but- Yeah, still
â¦ Canyon's just because I liked it.

There's no real spiritual
meaning behind it.

That's okay.

I just liked it.

That's all right.

And it flowed.

It's hard to find a middle
name for Zadok, by the way.

Yes.

Yeah.

Very hard.

Yeah.

I didn't realize that was his middle name.

I thought- Mm-hmm.

Are you serious?

I think God did it on purpose-
Yeah â¦ 'cause Tim said, "I will

never call my kids by his middle name."

That's what he told us when I got married.

I've done it.

Was that because of the way
th- like, 'cause your family

definitely does a whole-

whole thing where you will, like, y- you
call each other by their middle names.

Like, Ben goes by Ben- No, just
me â¦ but if I need hisâ¦

No, 'cause, like, I've- He needs attention
â¦ I've heard your mom call Angela Marie.

She does when she wants my attention.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

She hates nicknames, though.

Yeah.

We never did haveâ¦

Well, I mean, yours is shortened
from Benjamin to Ben, but, like-

Yeah, and then from Thomas to Tom.

Yeah.

But she doesn't like, like, I have to
be Angela, that can't be Angie orâ¦

Well, you guys call me Ang, but Angie.

Well, we also- I also had friends, and it
would have been confusing to be Angela.

Yeah.

That's true.

So, but yeah.

I don't know.

Anyway, got off subject with that.

A little bit, yeah.

But yeah, Zadok was a
complete and total surprise.

Uh, also was born three weeks
before my 40th birthday, so.

Three weeks before?

There you go.

I mean, God has a sense of humor.

I was like, "What?"

He's like, "All right, bet."

Hardest pregnancy I think ever.

He, he listened to you, though.

Don't- Yeah.

He gave you the desire of your heart.

He surpri- he surprised you.

Yeah.

He did.

He had your baby before you were 40.

Yes.

All the things I said.

Mm-hmm.

No surprise, not having a baby after 40.

Yep.

He's like, "Gotcha, girl."

"I'm gonna wait till three weeks before
your 40th birthday, and I'm gonna getcha."

And I'm like, "Thank you.

Thank you very much."

Love it.

He's a blessing.

He is like- Yeah.

He's a hoot â¦ the sweetest.

He's funny.

He's, loves soccer, but he loves his
mama, and I- I mean, for the first two

years couldn't go anywhere without him.

He likes his dad, but, you know.

Yeah.

It wasâ¦

But yeah.

It was, it was awesome.

Awesome.

Well, I just amâ¦

It's comforting, I think, and I
think people need to hear that

That God does still answer prayers
even when it's 15 years later.

Yeah.

You know?

I- it's like, I know it's not 90
years old, but like, it is like

a modern-day Sarah situation, you
know, where- Thankfully I wasn't.

Yeah, thankfully.

I could go a lot on that.

I, I, I won't, but-
Mm-hmm â¦ there's a lot withâ¦

There's a lot

I'll tell you- But also, yeah.

But it is, it is neat, but it's, it's a
testament to God and how He, He really

does give us the desires of our heart.

He knows, He knows the right timing.

He knows how things need to be.

Yeah.

And when you do surrender to
His will, He'll work it out.

Yes.

You know?

And you have to, I think
it's about surrender, too.

You have to â¦ I mean, I'm still s-
surrendering daily, like- Well, yeah

â¦ this isn't going the way I planned.

What's your plan?

'Cause God's plan is always better
and bigger than what ours is.

Yeah.

I think our imaginations can't tap
into what He has, and if looking

back, I don't think I would, I
would, I would have them any earlier.

Yeah.

Like, in the process, yes, but now
looking back, because we grew so much.

Mm-hmm.

And Tim and I had
opportunity to grow together.

Um, we did a lot of things.

We were go- we, we traveled a lot.

Yeah.

Like, we got to do a lot and grow
up a lot and, you know- Well,

and prepare for how to parent.

Yes.

I mean, we babysat.

We, like, we had people over
all the time, so it was a lot.

Looking back, I'm like,
"I wouldn't trade that."

Mm-mm.

Um, and getting to spend that seven years
with Kaden and really put into him- Mm-hmm

â¦ the time and the love, because Kaden's
very confident in who he- Yeah â¦ is.

He knows he's adopted.

I mean, he will

Did I tell you the story about him
and him, when Healing found out?

No.

That he was adopted?

Yeah, so I for- I forget he's adopted,
so I never told Healing he was adopted,

'cause, you know- Yeah â¦ I just
didn't think about it, 'cause he's mine.

Like- â¦ it was not a thought.

Well- Yeah â¦ one of her friends,
I think they were, like, five or

six, one of her little friends said,
"Did you know Kaden's adopted?"

She goes, "No, he's not.

He's my brother."

And she come home crying.

She's like, "They said Kaden's adopted."

And I'm like, "Oh, shoot."

Oh, no.

"We didn't talk about this."

Sorry.

Yeah.

So I said, "Well, let's talk about this."

So I said, "Well- Yes, I didn't
have Kaden from my belly.

Somebody else did.

I was like, "But before
time was ever-" Yeah

like way before any of us was ever
thought about on this earth, God thought

about us, and God picked Kaden for
us and picked us for Kaden way back.

I was like, "So it's always meant to
be Kaden's gonna be ours, even though

God had to bring it in another way."

And she's like, "Okay."

Well, she got mad at Kaden
one day, and she goes, "You're

not even my blood family.

You're adopted."

And he goes, "My parents picked me.

They just had you."

And I was like, "Oh, snap."

So she never said another
word to him after that.

But I think it's so cool because- Yeah
â¦ I also t- when we told him he was adopted,

we told him the same thing, "You didn't
come from my belly, but- Yeah â¦ God

planned you, and God put you here- Yeah

in our f- picked us for
you and you for us."

Like, there's no doubt about that.

Yeah, this isn't a mistake.

So I thought it was really
cool when I heard him say that.

I was like, he's very confident in
knowing- Yeah â¦ he's loved, and he's

in the family he's supposed to be in.

Yeah.

So that has been, that's been really
helpful to me 'cause you have people

that have stories about adoption.

They're like, "Oh, it's 'cause he's
adopted this happens, this happens."

I'm like, this happens to people
who are born into their families.

They still mess up.

Kids are gonna mess up.

Yeah.

Adults are gonna mess up.

Yeah.

And it's not because of
you're adopted or not adopted.

Like, you can not be adopted and still
come from a broken home or, or- Or

still feel like you are unwanted- Yes

or whatever.

Unwanted or- Yeah â¦ you know,
there's so many things that come,

and it doesn't matter, and I'm like,
the thing is, is we love Kaden.

Mm-hmm.

He's not adopted in our
minds or our hearts.

He's ours, so.

Yeah.

But I did think it was funny.

I forget he's adopted all the time.

Yeah.

Zadok just found out, and
I was like, "I forget."

So, um, like I said, I'm not good
at- â¦ 'cause Zadok, he doesn't care.

Yeah.

Kaden's his big brother.

Yeah.

Just give him all of his "Diary of
a Wimpy Kid" books that he's been

collecting since he was seven.

Really?

So Kaden or Zadok, yeah, after-
So Zadok knows he's loved.

Yes.

Yeah.

Zada- Zadok's like, "I'll haveâ¦"

And he's, you know, his big
brother brought them over, so.

Yeah.

So they're just the
coolest thing on earth.

Yeah.

That's, that's funny.

Yeah.

It's funny how, it's funny how God works.

He always- Yeah â¦ he- Okay.

So we, we always ask if you could go back
and observe or participate, whatever you

want, in a Bible story W- aside from the
crucifixion or the resurrection, 'cause

we figure everybody would feel like
they would need to see that or want to.

Um, which one would you pick?

What would you pick?

I was ready for this one.

I listened to enough of your podcast.

I think I would go back to when Jesus
was sitting, teaching the children, and

I want a notebook so I can take notes.

Oh.

'Cause I work with kids.

For like what would he- Yeah.

Yeah.

What did he teach?

What did he teach them?

What did he say?

That's a good one.

No one's said that so far.

I know.

Even in, even in the five weeks
that haven't been out yet.

Yeah.

Like- Well, I hope not.

Yeah.

Like, I haven't heard all of them.

No, nobody said it.

But yeah.

Yeah, because, you know, I work with
kids, and I'm like- Yeah â¦ how

did you keep their attention?

What did you say to them?

And it must've been tough because
like- And what did he d- what did

he dec- I can't say the words.

What did he decide was the most
necessary thing for him to teach them?

Yeah.

Yeah, I think it'd be
cool to- Huh â¦ know.

All right, Ben, what's your answer?

I mean, you're, you're technically
guest co-host, but- Requiring answers

and I, I do feel like at some point you're
gonna have to be, like, guest guest.

But we'll ask you now.

I, I assumed that would come,
uh, at some point, but I, I

think I've told you this already.

I think you asked me this, yeah.

I think we've, we've talked about
it, but mine changes, so I'm

just curious, what is it today?

Well, I'm still in the same mindset.

I think I would go back to watch,
uh, Elijah and the- Oh, yeah.

â¦ and the sacrifice, watching the flames
consume the sacrifice- That'd be so-

â¦ as he made fun of the false prophets.

And the great- I mean- â¦ the
ridicule in, in his voice.

I'd really like to see if he
actually said it the way I read it.

Yeah.

Of course he did.

Like, if he was as sassy as
it- Yeah â¦ reads on the page.

'Cause when I read, 'cause when I read
that, I take it he's being, uh, very

facetious and dripping with sarcasm-
â¦ and ridicule in every word that he says

to them, just mocking what they're doing.

And it just makes your heart
go a pitter-patter, right?

It makes me go, "Yeah, see?

It's okay to do that every now and then."

Yeah.

Exactly.

I think you're right.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think so.

I think so.

'Cause he knew at that point, you know
Listen, I think Jesus got sarcastic too.

I think he did.

You know?

I mean, like, he got sarcastic
with Peter when Peter was

like, "Well, what about John?"

And Jesus was like, "What's it to you?

W- if, if I never have John
die, like, what do you care?"

Get behind me, Satan.

Exactly.

Like, he got- Right?

He was aggravated.

Yeah.

I don't think he did that in kindness.

No.

In kindness, get behind me, Satan.

I don't think you could
say that in kindness.

No.

But, I mean- And- But he, I mean, it says
be angry and sin not, so you know- Yeah

â¦ he was, he was able, he braided a whip.

He took the time to braid a whip.

I think he was mad at
religious people, so.

Well, yeah.

You know that had to be super aggravating.

I think that's right down your alley.

I've got a list of people
I'd take a whip to.

He's like, "I'd braid several,
make sure I had a backup."

Yeah.

Like, just in case the ends get frayed.

Well, you're pretty, you're
pretty gnarly with a towel.

That's a story for another day.

I don't know if you need a whip.

The, the re- rest of the way that,
that we were raised and some of the

people we were raised around, uh,
it's a, it's a story for a different

time, a teaser for another show.

A different chapter.

Different chapter.

A whole different chapter.

Yep.

Maybe a couple of chapters.

I wanna, I wanna be listening to that one.

I think Kerrye wants to be
around for that one too.

Yeah.

All right.

Well- I, I think it would be
interesting for j- you, you, me, and

Joe, and sit down and talk about it.

It would.

Sarah wouldn't talk about it.

She would probably say- It would
probably be longer than an hour, though.

That's okay.

I mean, you would have to definitely edit.

You'd have some editing to do.

That's okay.

There'd be editing for sure, but also
we could make it a bonus episode,

and that could be as long as we want.

There you go.

Yeah.

I mean, we make the rules.

I think it'd be interesting.

So, okay.

Well, thanks, Angela, so much.

Thanks, Ben, for helping me.

You're welcome.

Um, you, you were extraordinary, and
you're gonna be the first one I call

anytime that- I make a perfect passenger
â¦ if I'm gone, Kerrye will have you

on as a guest host, and if Kerrye's
gone, I'll have you on as a guest.

You'll be, you'll be our go-to guy.

I'm a very good passenger.

Don't complain about the driving too much.

I'm just really surprised
you stayed awake.

And you didn't talk as much
as I thought you would.

Only because you used the driving and
passenger metaphor, because you don't

stay awake when- Oh, I did not hear you-

you're not driving â¦ with that one.

Yeah.

That wasâ¦

That, uh, that went over my head.

Yeah.

But I see where she, I see
where he's coming from.

Yeah.

You looked at me like, "How rude.

I would not sleep through your podcast."

Well, anyway, well- He's
like, "I have, but mm."

That's okay.

Anyway, thanks, Angela.

We'll have you back.

We'll talk about all the fun Tucker lore.

It'll be great.

Thank you.

Anyway.

Yes.

Bye.

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