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A podcast that spotlights the women reshaping the hospitality industry, breaking barriers, and carving their paths in the ever-evolving world of restaurants, food, and community.
Sara (00:38)
today's episode is with Ade Carrena The incredible Ade Carrena She is a culinary storyteller. She is a chopped champion. She is the winner of the Chef of the Year Award with the North Carolina Restaurant and Lodging Association.
She's the founder of two companies, Dounou Cuisine and Ilewa Foods. And this is a big one. All right. we talk about a lot of things, we talk about grappling with the title of chef. We talk about the power of lineage and how she brings her own unique lineage from generations of incredible cooks into her.
Traditions in her kitchen. She has an amazing story, which you will hear.
she is really the captain of her own ship. She is an actual living, breathing example of what it means to quote, make something on your own terms, which is a phrase I think is kind of overused, but she really is doing it. She is so clear on what her terms actually are, and I think that's what's so poignant to me about.
Her. in this conversation, we get into what those terms are and how her life experience shaped them and how she uses that as a compass to decide what business decisions to make and what not to make. It's a longer one, you guys, so buckle up, but it's so juicy. And I hope you enjoy my conversation with the beautiful, gorgeous, talented Ade Carrena
Sara Abernethy (02:21)
For someone who's doing it all in your company, you are doing the thing, you're making the product, but you're promoting a brand. You do it really beautifully. It's hard to do both. It's hard to be the one thinking about how do I?
Ade Carena (02:40)
Talk
Sara Abernethy (02:40)
talk about this and where do I put this message and what is the message and then do the thing at the same time?
Ade Carena (02:40)
about this and where do I put this message and what is the message?
I
think it's
What I've learned about myself is I am delusional. Yeah, I'm very delusional. And like, I think I can do anything. And my model is if I can, if I imagine it and I think the thought came to me, then it's possible. And I just need to figure out how to get from thought to reality. And so I'm delusional in that type
Sara Abernethy (02:52)
great me too I am delusional the best people are I think I can do anything. And my model is if I can imagine it, I think it, but thought came to me, then it's possible. And I just need to figure out how to get from thought to reality. And so I'm delusional in that sense.
Ade Carena (03:12)
of way. But what I feel has worked really well for me.
is just being myself and being honest. If I fuck up, I fuck up. I do great, I do great. Like, don't, and I'm honest, I'm open about it with people who support me. And I think that has really been good for me.
Sara Abernethy (03:38)
There's no pretending. Literally what you see is she That's what it is. bad and different and everything in between, you know? And in a strange way that has worked for me. Like I haven't stopped to be like, I have a strategy. No. It's been what feels good. Do it.
Ade Carena (03:38)
There's no pretending here. Literally what you see is what to get good or bad and different and everything in between, you know? And in a strange way that has worked for me. Like I haven't sat to be like, all right, what's the strategy? No, it's been it's been what feels good. Do it.
Sara Abernethy (03:59)
It's working amazing, let's keep going, It's not, let's pivot, that's it. Can I tell you though, the people I admire the most out there
Ade Carena (04:00)
It's working. Amazing. Let's keep going. It's not let's pivot. That's it.
Sara Abernethy (04:07)
in these streets, as people say, are doing that. The people whose content that's hitting the most, that's feeling the most human to human, that's what they say. They say there's no roadmap, there's no greater scheming, we're just pulling the trigger and making things as we go
Ade Carena (04:10)
Like the people whose content that's hitting the most, that's feeling the most human to human, that's what they say. They say there's no roadmap, there's no greater steaming, we're just pulling the trigger and as we go with
Sara Abernethy (04:26)
what feels right, feels good in the moment.
Ade Carena (04:26)
what feels right, what feels good. And you have to get out of your own head, I think, too,
of wanting to be perfect. My daughter, being a mom has honestly really built
Sara Abernethy (04:40)
built
Ade Carena (04:40)
that in me because
Sara Abernethy (04:40)
that in me.
Ade Carena (04:42)
I grew up in a way where like you had to be excellent. made the mistake of showing that I could do well in school and that was the standard.
Sara Abernethy (04:52)
A mistake.
Ade Carena (04:55)
They said you just came to this country you speak no English and you managed to do this in the first year you're here and I said damn that's the standard they held me to the rest of.
Sara Abernethy (05:04)
Oh my god.
Ade Carena (05:08)
my upbringing. so I have this habit of
I need to be excellent at everything that I do. But then when I had my daughter, it was like, girl, I don't even know what the hell I'm doing, honestly. I was 22 when I had her and that really taught me how to be imperfect. And I hope the one thing I'm intentional about is that I hope that shows through like my food.
I hope it shows through the way the plates look. Literally when we're plating and we're on a line and I'm talking to my team, I'm like, no, no, it's okay. If it's not all facing, it's fine. I'm not into the, I'm not nitpicking. I think it's okay for things to not look perfect and to just be what they are. And my journey as a mom has really.
Sara Abernethy (06:11)
you look at this little angel that your body cooked and I look at them and I'm like you guys don't have to do anything to be worthy of love to be cherished you don't have to do anything and you just exist and you are worthy just as you are you little dumplings
Ade Carena (06:16)
I look at them and I'm like, you guys don't have to do anything to be worthy of love to be cherished. You don't have to do anything. You just exist. You just exist and you are worthy just as are in the dumplings.
Yes, absolutely. It changed that for me and then it got very deep was I wish I could give that to myself.
Sara Abernethy (06:35)
It changed that for me and then it got very deep was I wish I could give that to myself.
Ade Carena (06:42)
You have gorgeous. Yes. So we were in the city over the weekend.
Sara Abernethy (06:42)
here's what, isn't that lovely? So we were in Elizabeth City over the weekend. Have you ever been there?
Ade Carena (06:48)
No, I had not been there, but it was a celebration of life for my friend's mom, which does sound sad. yes, there's sadness, it was probably the best. Yeah.
Sara Abernethy (06:49)
I had not been there, but it was a celebration of life for my friend's mom, which does sound sad and yes, there's sadness, but it was probably the best. It
was like a crazy fun party.
Ade Carena (06:58)
I love
it. Same season, Benin. Yes, I mean, we danced. like our kids were there. mean, it was such a family reunion in way. then at the end, they were like, everybody take these flowers because the hosts didn't live there. They live in New York. I I love it. No, they're gorgeous. Otherwise, they're going to go. Yeah.
Sara Abernethy (07:01)
And yes, I mean, we danced. We, our kids were there. mean, it was such a family reunion in a way. And then at the end, they were like, everybody take these flowers because the hosts didn't live there. They live in New York. I mean, I, but they were like, really like, take them otherwise they're going to go in
the trash. So thank you. Yeah, they're just lovely.
Ade Carena (07:40)
they have passed. roses in particular, they turn into gorgeous colors. And for me, it's like a reminder of
Sara Abernethy (07:41)
Mm-hmm.
Ade Carena (07:52)
not disposing of like life, you know, and people.
and I collect the ones that mean something to me. Like when I had my daughter, I was given a bouquet of roses that I
kept for a really long time. And now it's in my dining room table. Yeah, it's in my dining room table. So it was with a previous partner. We built a table and we covered it. We painted. was gorgeous. And it's got my flowers in there from.
Sara Abernethy (08:05)
You still have? Oh, it's... How did you do that? That's so beautiful.
Ade Carena (08:35)
She is 12, so she is elevating into different spaces. And I got flowers then too. Yeah, I am. And I'll figure out what to do with those flowers and I'm sure she's gonna get that table when she grows up. So that's why I love to keep,
Sara Abernethy (08:39)
my gosh. Are you okay? Good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ade Carena (08:56)
I have such a detachment to things, but I love meaningful things. Almost everything in my home was either made
Sara Abernethy (08:58)
Yeah, that makes sense.
Ade Carena (09:05)
or gifted to me and I love that. That's very, very beautiful. Actually, something that I took away from my deep dive stocking you this week
Sara Abernethy (09:10)
That's very, very beautiful. Actually, something that I took away from my deep dive stalking you this week.
Ade Carena (09:20)
that I really hadn't put together, this is actually kind of a left turn now that I'm saying it out loud. I thought there was a connective tissue, but maybe there's not.
Sara Abernethy (09:20)
that I really hadn't put together. this is actually kind of a left turn now that I'm saying this out loud. I thought there was a connective tissue, but maybe there's not.
This idea that convenience culture has actually been a vehicle for isolation and how cooking now has become.
if you're even cooking at all, you're alone. It's a solitary, isolated experience. Convenience culture, getting your groceries delivered, getting a meal delivered from DoorDash because you don't cook. mean, so many people don't even cook now. When truly, from an ancient perspective, it is a very communal act and has been a very communal act for the entirety of humanity. Here's where I got there from what you just said.
Ade Carena (09:56)
Truly, from an ancient perspective, is a very communal act. has been a very communal act for the entirety of humanity. Here's where I got there from what you just said.
All the shit that we have. There's just too much shit. There's too much stuff. Everybody has too much stuff. I have too much stuff. And that's like a suffocating thing. So when you can really intentionally curate the places you are, the spaces you are, that is such an act of self-care.
Sara Abernethy (10:07)
All the shit that we have. There's just too much shit. There's too much stuff. Everybody has too much stuff. I have too much stuff and it's like a suffocating thing. So when you can really intentionally curate the places you are, the spaces you are, that is such an act of self care
Ade Carena (10:36)
yes,
Sara Abernethy (10:26)
and so therapeutic. Sorry. That's how I got there. Too much stuff in today's culture. Convenience culture is just like killing everybody. Don't you think so?
Ade Carena (10:37)
like I think about that. was just at my last dinner was talking about that my last dinner was very heavy. Some really. Yes. Some big topics came up. We talked about immigration. We talk about displacement. We talked about
identity. We talked about police brutality. We talked about mental health awareness and how it's affecting our children. That one was probably the hardest one. And, you know, I have to do, I have to talk about all of those things while not turning people off to wanting to eat at the same time. But.
In that particular course, it was important to note that there is an inconvenience that comes with being in community that we have to face. Sometimes, even when talking about like mental health.
So often we're using like therapy language to remove ourselves from addressing conflict. Spiritual bypass baby. You know, like, this no longer serves me. Truly. If we're not in conflict, like how do we grow into something else? You know, there's an inconvenience that comes with facing uncomfortable things.
Sara Abernethy (11:46)
Spiritual bypass, baby. Truly. Truly. If we're not in conflict, like how do we grow into something else? You know, there's an inconvenience that comes with facing uncomfortable things.
Ade Carena (12:03)
So convenience has absolutely.
brought us into a cocoon that isolates us and that it's something that I have actively in trying to work against for myself
Sara Abernethy (12:17)
Yeah.
Ade Carena (12:18)
and then for people who are around me and going home has really opened my mind to how lonely we could be here, you know? And watching my mom.
Sara Abernethy (12:31)
And how we just, yeah.
Ade Carena (12:50)
because the door is open. The amount of people who come in and out of that lady's house when I'm at home with her, it's like she's never alone. It's from children to friends to elders
Sara Abernethy (12:50)
the door is open. The amount of people coming in and out of that house, she's never alone. From children to friends to elders.
Ade Carena (13:05)
come in and out of there and send her a beer or come and sit and have a beer with her. Like she's just never alone there. I think that would shock people who live here because they're like, please call me before you show up.
Sara Abernethy (13:11)
I think that would shock people who live here if they if they knew uh-huh if they realized
how What an open-door policy means in a place like Benin
Ade Carena (13:20)
Yeah. I tell my friends all the time, can come. They don't believe me.
but I always tell people if I'm home, then I'm home. If I'm not sorry, let's try again. But you can you can come to my house anytime. If you know where I live, you can come to my house anytime. And somehow there will always be food to feed you. So I love that. And that's that's never going to change for me.
Sara Abernethy (13:48)
So for people who are meeting you for the first time, gorgeous
Ade Carena (13:48)
for the first time.
Sara Abernethy (13:51)
Adé Carrena You were born in Benin which is a small country in West Africa, which I think a lot of people don't know exists. I actually didn't, to be honest, before I met you.
The other thing that occurred to me on my deep dive, which was so dumb, but I didn't realize that, you grew up speaking French until you were 10. So your first language is French, and you probably didn't learn English until you came to the US.
Ade Carena (14:05)
Yeah Which is so dumb. But I didn't realize that, oh you grew up speaking French. Until you were 10. So your first language is French. And you probably didn't learn English until you came to the US.
Sara Abernethy (14:21)
So at age 10, you left Benin you were adopted, you spent the rest of your formative years in Connecticut, and then followed...
Well, I should say your first bite of the bug in food in a restaurant environment was up in Connecticut. But we'll leave that there. And then you follow your heart and your love and you come down to Raleigh and you're like, oh, it's nice here. People are nice here. It's warm. But you did have.
Ade Carena (14:51)
People are nice. The sun felt different. The air was different. Yeah, girl. But you did have.
And please correct me if I'm wrong. I see little little sweet angel baby Adé in the kitchen with your aunties and your mom. And that's your first introduction to cooking. Yeah. The next chapter of your life. The kitchen is not a safe place. don't like it. We do not. do not like it there. That is not our home.
Sara Abernethy (15:01)
And please correct me if I'm wrong. I see little sweet angel baby a day in the kitchen with your aunties and your mom, and that's your first introduction to cooking. The next chapter of your life, the kitchen is not a safe place. We don't like it there. We do not like it there. That is not our home.
Ade Carena (15:20)
Then we find our first position at Heirloom which I too was your same age when I got my first position in a restaurant. And it really was intoxicating where you describe this experience where
Sara Abernethy (15:20)
Then we find our first position at Heirloom which I too was your same age when I got my first position in a restaurant. And it really was intoxicating where you describe this experience where
Ade Carena (15:31)
you're
like people come here on purpose. People choose, there's another way to eat. You can feel like.
Sara Abernethy (15:31)
you're like people come here on purpose. Like people choose to, there's another way to eat and it could feel like this
art form or this experience. at that same age, 15, 16, I was bit by the bug.
Ade Carena (15:42)
Yeah, yeah,
it like opened it blew my mind
The art form of cooking and just the artistry that is storytelling
Sara Abernethy (15:50)
Yeah, just, and it's fun. or it was at that time for me, this activity and action. And I was a theater kid too, so I always saw a lot of parallels between the art form. form. The artistry that is storytelling,
literally through the theater. And the humor that comes.
when you get in those environments and you get all of those passionate people at a very small hot room and things don't go as planned. It's really interesting. If you have ever experienced like home insecurities or you are connected to people who have experienced this, it is such dynamic people.
Ade Carena (16:19)
when you get in those environments and you those passionate people in a very small hospital and things don't go as planned. it's really interesting. If you have ever experienced like home insecurities or you are connected to people who have experienced this, it is such dynamic people. Like...
Sara Abernethy (16:45)
it reminds me of the restaurant.
Ade Carena (16:45)
It reminds me of the restaurant
space. There's such different personalities there and a certain I'm sure even with the different personalities, there is one thread that is common probably in all of those people is this sort of like grit energy, this sort of pivot energy, like quick decision making. Yes. That.
Sara Abernethy (16:49)
Yes
job, you may not understand how some of the things in my corporate world are connected. Like we learn those skills innately in the kitchen or in restaurants that people don't connect.
Ade Carena (17:34)
can be applied. Like we're project managers. We're administrators. We are we work so well under pressure.
Sara Abernethy (17:38)
100 %
Ade Carena (17:47)
not saying all of this is the best, but in like in practice, but we have all those skills. valuable. there's no barrier to entry in restaurants. Yeah, true. Very true. No barrier to entry. And I think that's one of the most beautiful things about
Sara Abernethy (17:54)
So valuable and there's no barrier to entry in restaurants. There's no barrier to entry and I think that's one of the most beautiful things about
this very frustrating vocation you and I have chosen
Ade Carena (18:08)
And you do absorb through osmosis all of these skills, really like the ability crisis management. Yes.
Sara Abernethy (18:08)
And you do absorb through osmosis all of these skills, really like the ability, crisis management. Yes.
Under so many, like, different types of situations, you find yourself in, in navigate.
Ade Carena (18:19)
Under so many, like, the different types of situations you find yourself in and navigate
as a server, let's start there, or host, or hostess, to working on the line, the way you walk through all sorts of situations is it is a skill that not everyone has. Maintaining your composure
Sara Abernethy (18:38)
of situations is it is a skill that not everyone has. Maintaining your composure.
Ade Carena (18:46)
while someone could be yelling at
you, berating you, and still finding a solution. Being solution oriented is one thing I can say I got from working in restaurants and kitchens because you kind of have to find an answer and you have to do it quickly and do it while staying quite, you know, what's the word I'm looking for? Steady. Steady, yeah.
Sara Abernethy (19:14)
Steady. Steady. I
think part of that is a little bit of a trauma response,
Ade Carena (19:18)
Part of it is a little bit of a trauma response.
Sara Abernethy (19:20)
if I'm being honest, but I will say when COVID happened, I, in a way, as fucked up as this sounds, was like, I was born to do this.
Ade Carena (19:23)
When COVID happened, in a way, as fucked up as this sounds, was like, I was born to do this.
Sara Abernethy (19:32)
And I remember in those first few weeks feeling like deadly calm, even though we had to go through a lot of painful stuff,
Ade Carena (19:34)
feeling like deadly calm. Even though we had to go through a lot of painful stuff.
Sara Abernethy (19:40)
like,
Ade Carena (19:41)
We did have to lay everybody off. did have to shut the doors. I'm not saying it wasn't stressful, but that skill set and what comes out of a theater background too, I just remember feeling so deadly calm and being like, what are the options ahead of us? They're very limited.
Sara Abernethy (19:41)
We did have to lay everybody off. We did have to shut the doors. not saying it wasn't stressful, but that skill set and what comes out of a theater background too, I just remember feeling so deadly calm and being like, okay, what are the options ahead of us? They're very limited,
right?
Ade Carena (20:01)
We're
going to make decisions hour by hour.
Sara Abernethy (20:03)
We're gonna make decisions hour by hour.
But hadn't you just decided to quit your job and be like, I'm gonna go out on my own. Isn't that right?
Ade Carena (20:08)
I did. Quit my job. Quit my job and be like, I'm going to go out on my own. Isn't that right?
Literally, yes. And a couple months later, COVID was like, no, you're not. You're going to sit down. And then I became a teacher to my child because and I feel so terribly bad for our babies who my daughter was four or five at a time.
And so she was just starting school. And I know that must have been so difficult for those children for that generation. And I'm sure they are still there's some heavy impacts on them now from that time. As patient as I am, as loving as I am. I'm a teacher in my own right. Sure. But yes.
It's just not the same. know, teachers have, they're trained for that. for teaching children. And I just, my poor baby, we had to stay home. at one point, I literally remember being like, you know, hey, Mara, let's just go outside.
This doesn't even, let's forget this. Let's go outside and listen to the birds and feel the sun and go run if that's what you want to do, girl. Because I
Sara Abernethy (21:21)
Let's put this down.
Ade Carena (21:31)
felt like there was so much pressure on them. And I would sometimes sit and watch the computer screen and see all those kids and be like, this is so terrible.
Sara Abernethy (21:35)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ade Carena (22:05)
fluctuating. She was in school, then she was not in school. Then I remember getting a job. think it was SAS in the kitchen. And then everyone was laid off. mean, then we had to go back to school. It was just so, so much. But through that experience,
Sara Abernethy (22:20)
a
Ade Carena (22:26)
a beautiful thing was birthed for me, which is my spice company. So I'm grateful for that.
anyway. Can you tell the story of that first pop-up event you did where you realized like, this could be a path for Yeah, at the time I was still working at the bank when I did this. Because you were in banking.
Sara Abernethy (22:31)
Can you tell the story of that first pop-up event you did where you realized like, oh, this could be a path for me. Yeah. At the time, I was still working at the bank when I did this. Yes, you were in baking.
Ade Carena (22:48)
Yeah, I know, that was an arc. You know, you gotta eat, right? Yeah, well,
Sara Abernethy (22:53)
But you know, we gotta eat, right?
Ade Carena (22:56)
because...
What I have learned now, what I sit in deeply now is that everything happens in seasons. You you can't be the best of everything simultaneously. can't be the best mother while I'm the best chef, while I'm the best business owner, while I'm the best whatever else I could be to anyone. So say it again.
Sara Abernethy (23:04)
You know, you can't be the best of everything simultaneously. I can't be the best mother while I'm the best chef while I'm the best business owner while I'm the best whatever else I could be to anyone. So say it again.
Ade Carena (23:21)
You know, I can't be the best of everything at once, you know. And yet we think we can. No, we can't. It's impossible. It's not possible.
Sara Abernethy (23:21)
You know, can't say it again, truly. And yet we think we can and we should. It's It's not possible.
Ade Carena (23:29)
We don't even have that. It's impossible. So I sit in that very deeply. And when I had my daughter, I was like,
Sara Abernethy (23:30)
It's impossible. So I sit in that very deeply and when I had my daughter, I was like...
Ade Carena (23:36)
actually, I want to be a mom. I don't want to worry about this. These hours. I need to figure this out. And I was a single mom, so I had to do what I had to do. And I went into banking.
Sara Abernethy (23:40)
Shocking. Sure.
Ade Carena (23:49)
which I can't say I enjoyed. I didn't necessarily enjoy it, but I was there for three and a half years.
But I also learned
I learned that I have to be passionate about whatever I'm doing and it has to make an impact. That's how I measure my own success is what impact is it making? And so I...
was in banking, I was a banker, and one of the tellers whom I became dear friends with invited me to this bar here in Raleigh, actually, Crafty's at Lafayette Village. I went, it was lovely because I enjoyed nice beer, and I built a friendship with Kirk himself. This is the owner of Kirk is the owner. And one day I brought him some greens, like the way we do it at home.
Sara Abernethy (24:33)
This is the owner of crafty And one day I brought him some grains, like the way we do it at home.
Ade Carena (24:42)
And he tried the greens. He was like, my gosh, this is amazing. And there was someone else sitting there, another patron. And the person was like, well.
Sara Abernethy (24:43)
And he tried the grains and he was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. And there was someone else sitting there, another patron. And the person was like, well.
Ade Carena (24:55)
Like, why don't they try it and they loved it too. And they're like, why don't we just do something here? I was like, what do you mean?
Sara Abernethy (24:56)
What?
Ade Carena (25:02)
I said, do you mean? They're
They're like, yeah, why don't we just like do a pop up here or something? I said on it, really? And I got to planning. We did it on a Sunday. We sold tickets for thirty five dollars.
Sara Abernethy (25:17)
I heard that and I did laugh. And I was like, bless your heart. But again, it's like you don't know what you don't know.
Ade Carena (25:22)
$35. I had no idea. I made no money.
I made zero money. I spent so much time and energy. took me. Of course.
Yes, my first one, I still have the menu. I can I have a board of my menus at my in my home and I can visually see my growth, you know, and like the depth of my menu, the creativity of my menu, even what my menus look like. And this was like some paper from Staples and like I put the flag down here. I was like, my goodness, my have I grown? Yeah, she.
Sara Abernethy (25:56)
Oh, but I love her. Don't you love her?
Ade Carena (26:03)
I do, I love her very much. She dared to try. She dared to try and so many don't even get That's very true. That's very true. So we did like three or four courses. I worked so many hours. By the time it was done, I talked to every single person that was there. I think it was 35 people. When we were done, Kirk, I sat
Sara Abernethy (26:04)
She dared to try and so many don't even get that far. That's very interesting. So we did like three or four courses. I worked so many hours. By the time it was done, I talked to every single person that was there. I think it was 35 people. When we were done, Kirk, said,
Ade Carena (26:24)
down at the bar. Kirk poured me a beer and I took a sip of my beer and I was like, well, I think I found it.
Like I was exhausted. Yes. And I said, my goodness, I think
Sara Abernethy (26:33)
It's so good. That exhaustion is so good, isn't it?
Ade Carena (26:39)
I could I could do this. And that took me on a path of trying to figure out how I could do that. And it got to the point where.
I had to make a choice between banking and this and I made that choice. can't I don't Yeah, it was 2019 and you know, I don't believe in
Sara Abernethy (26:55)
And it was 2019?
Ade Carena (27:01)
any wrong choices. I don't I don't have that belief I don't believe I think everything is for your good for your own elevation and evolution as a human on this earth and you make a decision once you start going down that path if it's working you continue if it's
Sara Abernethy (27:16)
Okay.
Ade Carena (27:18)
You pivot and you learn the lessons from that and I don't see it as a mistake that I Although I remember having a meeting with the district manager who? Came to see me the day I was leaving and I said you didn't think to come see me before but whatever The day I was leaving and it was very fear-based. It was very like are you sure you want to do this? You won't have insurance. You have a child trying to talk me out of
leaving to pursue my own passion. And I didn't feed into that. I. It didn't go the way I imagined it at first, but then it brought all of this, so taking that, if anything, if no one gets anything else out of that, just the fact that you make a step forward brings you closer to whatever.
wherever you're supposed to be to be just take the step that's it
Sara Abernethy (28:10)
wherever you're supposed to be. Just take the step. That's it. I'm in one million percent agreement. I would argue perhaps there was a
woman you needed to become during that covid time in order for you to be ready to receive what was coming for you. We opened Wye Hill in 2019. So I am with you and opened Wye
Ade Carena (28:22)
during that COVID time. Yeah. In order for you to be ready to receive. Absolutely. opened Y Hill in 2019. I am with you. Yeah. opened Y
Sara Abernethy (28:36)
Hill with no
ground up credibility.
Ade Carena (28:43)
This sounds like
seems like the most convenient time to build a restaurant open one.
Sara Abernethy (28:46)
I mean, you don't know what you don't
know. We had been in that building for a year running it as the previous concept that it was. I was working in 9 to 5 that whole time.
We didn't have money to do a build out of any kind, so we wanted to take our time and figure out, how do we want to use the space? What is a restaurant concept? I mean, we took Boylan Bridge over and we're like, well, we could do better than this. the opportunity was just so tantalizing. It was impossible to say no.
And it worked out because I do think we were meant to take the keys to that building. I believe we were meant to go on this journey together. I was meant to go through those tribulations to become this version of me. And yeah, there were a lot of painful moments.
Ade Carena (29:33)
was meant to go through those tribulations to become this version of you. And yeah, there were a lot of painful. Girl. ones no one even thinks about or imagines
you sitting
Sara Abernethy (29:51)
Yeah.
Ade Carena (29:52)
on your couch or hiding in a closet somewhere crying.
Sara Abernethy (29:58)
Hmm.
Ade Carena (30:01)
And then say, all right, cut that out. What's next?
Sara Abernethy (30:03)
Tits up!
Ade Carena (30:06)
What's next?
Sara Abernethy (30:07)
Did you
ever grapple with claiming the title of chef?
Ade Carena (30:14)
this is a good question. I think people call me chef and maybe I introduce myself as that too. But I think myself more to be a storyteller.
And then intentionally, I would say a cook because I don't have any formal training whatsoever. However, the people that have inspired me or have put something that is innate in me are the women. Like my mom, my grandmothers, my aunties, the women who cook on the side of the road in Benin or most African countries. They...
They've been cooking for centuries, for thousands of years. And I think verbiage was claimed and now, you know, it's become there's a standard and I just don't.
follow that in particular. I honor with everything that I do, I'm always honoring the women who are the first teachers, the first archivist before we wrote anything down. It was them. They had all the information. And so I consider myself to be a cook, you know, because they aren't walking
Sara Abernethy (31:17)
the first archivist before we wrote anything down. was them. They had all the information. so I consider it
Ade Carena (31:30)
around being like, I'm a chef of this or chef of that. And that is not to...
undermine the work it takes to reach a certain level of excellence in our industry. I just think for me on my own individual journey, it is so important that I pay reverence to the women and my ancestry and the way we do things in my culture and it's really important.
for me to understand my lineage, my heritage. And my mom said something to me when we were filming for our documentary that stayed with me forever. She said she didn't teach me how to cook. Like I didn't learn how to cook. I left her at 10, so that wasn't possible. But she said, in our family, we are cooks. My mother's an incredible cook.
her mother, an incredible cook. I always honor my father too. My father was the best cook I ever knew. And his mother was an incredible cook as well. I just come from a lineage of people who cook very well, and that is in me. when I think if we all understood that like...
You don't necessarily have to compare yourself to anything, understand what you come from, because it's already in you, you know? And I live by that. That it's already here. Whatever answers I'm looking for is already here. yeah, of course. So in my country,
Sara Abernethy (33:02)
Can you talk about the ritual that you do when you go in the kitchen?
Ade Carena (33:09)
we have a very different relationship with alcohol.
We have a traditional liquor that we make and it's more medicinal than anything. You you infuse it with herbs, you infuse it with spices, you infuse it with whatever you want actually and then we like take sips of that throughout the day. For me, when I go into the kitchen, I have a moment where I invite my ancestors in. I pour them a glass, I pour myself a glass, I drink it with them, I invite them to speak through me, to work through my hands.
to tap into my heart and if there is a message that we are supposed to have or somebody needs to hear something even if it's me that I welcome them to be in the space with me and that's why I always credit them because
It's not I'm just a vessel, to be honest. it's all the people who have come before me who are inside of me and I might sound crazy and maybe I am. But.
Sara Abernethy (34:07)
It doesn't sound crazy, it makes me emotional.
Truly, it's so powerful. We talked, you and I have connected on motherhood ever since we met, but it makes me think about giving birth. it feels like there's a lot of shared stuff there. You are a vessel.
Ade Carena (34:15)
We talked, you and I have connected on motherhood ever since we met, it makes me think about giving birth. it feels like there's a lot of shared stuff there. Yeah. You are a vessel.
Sara Abernethy (34:29)
You were in your grandmother. Your grandmother was in her great, in your great grandma, you know, we're all just vessels, really. And what an honor that is.
Ade Carena (34:29)
You were in your grandmother. Your grandmother was in her grave. In your great grandmother. Absolutely. We're all just vessels. Absolutely. And what an honor that is. Oh,
of course. that's it helps me to remember how valuable I am, how valuable my life
Sara Abernethy (34:50)
Yes.
Ade Carena (34:50)
is and what I bring to the world. You know, we all have a purpose here. We all have magic inside of us.
see how you contribute to this big round thing that we're all living in.
Sara Abernethy (35:07)
Yes. Big round thing.
Sara Abernethy (35:13)
Just a quick break in today's conversation to extend
an invitation to you. Your listenership and your support of the podcast truly, truly means the world to me. And it does take a significant amount of resources to produce this podcast. So if you have enjoyed these conversations,
If you want to help continue ensuring that these conversations and this visibility are available to the women in our community and the people who need it most, I invite you to join our Her Seat at the Table Patreon community. You can join for as little as $3 a month, which is basically like buying me a cup of coffee, which would be very appreciated.
And I do have some cute perks in there, everything from doing a
live shout out of your name on an upcoming episode, all the way to an invitation to the upcoming Her Seat at the Table dinner party, which I host in the fall of each year in Raleigh, North Carolina. So thank you for considering. Thank you for listening. And let's jump back into our conversation.
Sara Abernethy (36:21)
So when did you decide to go, how did you meet Brad who you partnered with on the film? I should say Bite of Benin for those who are unfamiliar and it is available now to anybody who wants to watch it, is that right or no? No, okay.
Ade Carena (36:21)
So when did you decide to go, how did you meet Brad, who you partnered with on the film? I would say by 'Bite of Benin' for those who are unfamiliar, and it is available now to anybody who wants to watch it. No, not yet. So we,
I met Brad when Whisk was still open.
which was almost like a cooking store, yeah, like a sur la table type of thing, but very hyper local. And they would host
Sara Abernethy (36:52)
Yes. Yes.
Ade Carena (36:57)
cooking classes, so I was teaching classes there. And Brad was an assistant. He worked with me in my class, and that's how we met each other. And he was like, hey, have you ever thought about going home and having someone follow you so you can see the work you do?
with the women for your spice company. And I was like, no, but like we can totally go. And I met him. He invited me to his home. He made like lunch. And I met him and his daughter and his wife. And from there, we just planned on going to Benin, then plan to make the documentary that came out.
Sara Abernethy (37:30)
Sure.
Ade Carena (37:42)
But we intended on going home and following me and what I do with Ilewa Foods. And we just happened to have a very life changing conversation on the roof of my grandmother's home when she was celebrating her 90th birthday. And he said a day there is something here. have a story and if you are open to it, it could be really impactful and change a lot of people's lives.
And I was like, no. No, I don't want to do that. This is for my therapist. Not you and a camera in the world. That's crazy.
as I was in that documentary. So shout out to people who are authentically themselves and honor people's stories and don't use their traumas as ways to exploit them or benefit from them. partially why you think you might have been hesitant? Oh, yes. And also, and also...
Sara Abernethy (39:17)
Is that partially why you think you might have been hesitant? Yeah.
Ade Carena (39:25)
I didn't want to, like I had been in therapy, I had been doing a lot of work to grow past my trauma. And I didn't.
It had to be really intentionally done because I am not the only one with such a story. You're representing an entire group of people who have been displaced, who have experienced adoption. And our stories are not here for entertainment. I always am so shocked when I see these movies made about all these different serial killers and all these different, these
things have occurred to people and like without consideration of those families and and people yeah and this like this our fascination
Sara Abernethy (40:15)
And people are just consuming them like junk food.
Ade Carena (40:21)
as humans with being entertained by trauma so this is just like a philosophy of mine and I was afraid to even go down that path
That's why even in the documentary, I'm not like. So explicit, you know, the documentary doesn't even cover. It leaves you to imagine is what I would say, and that was intentional because I didn't think that it was appropriate to. Romanticize is not the right word, but.
Sara Abernethy (40:55)
that it was appropriate to romanticize is not the right word. Yeah, but it does apply actually.
To romanticize and exploit. Trauma. Well, I
Ade Carena (41:05)
to romanticize trauma.
Sara Abernethy (41:09)
watched it yesterday. It's been, I've meant to do it long, long ago. But I,
Ade Carena (41:10)
It's okay you got to be in the right headspace
It's for the best because now it's fresh on my mind. it was very elegantly woven. You did not need the details to be struck by the questions that came out of that.
Sara Abernethy (41:18)
It's for the best because now it's fresh on my mind and it was very elegantly woven. You did not need the details to be struck by the questions that came out of that.
And I will say in what was so two beautiful things about the film. Number one, within the first, it's not very long.
Right? But within the first few minutes, we are rooting for you immediately. There is an emotional connection to you that was so artfully and elegantly done. Secondly, the sound. Have you gotten this feedback? The sound is so gorgeous. The clicks of the crab in the pod or the sounds of.
Ade Carena (42:06)
Yeah.
Sara Abernethy (42:12)
The peanuts getting spread out, it's just so delicious. It was beautiful. But in 36 minutes, it's very powerful. I'm sure you've gotten that feedback. It's very powerful. You don't need to know what happened in that kitchen to make you feel so sad about it. And I can understand
Ade Carena (42:12)
was beautiful. But in 36 minutes, it's very powerful. I'm sure you've gotten that. Thank you. You don't need to know what happened in that kitchen to make you feel so sad about it. And I can understand.
Sara Abernethy (42:36)
that that's not for the world. That's not for the world. That is something that...
Somebody needs to earn the right from you to be brought into. But I really think it's a beautiful thing that you were able to tell that story. We don't think about adoption in the West like that. We don't have to get into that. We don't have to get under the hood at that right now. But we don't think
Ade Carena (42:45)
Oh, can I have strong feelings
Sara Abernethy (43:02)
about that.
And even, you know, you talking about, yeah, I remember being a little girl and being like, this is exciting. This is a big trip that we're getting to go on without anybody having the tools or communication to lay out to you what was really happening and where you had no agency.
Ade Carena (43:10)
This is a big trip that we're getting to go on without anybody having the tools or communication to lay out to you. What was really happening? And where you had no agency.
None. It's that part. It's really that part. I don't think loving children like I love children. I love all
Sara Abernethy (43:26)
Of course.
Ade Carena (43:28)
the babies. I will not have another one out of my body, but I will love all the children that are in this world. And there's nothing wrong with loving children. There's nothing wrong with
protecting children, there's nothing wrong with wanting to provide stability in a gorgeous home for children. I think we're what we forget whether a child is adopted or not is the agency of children and how their beautiful souls come into this world and have no sort of control over what is happening to them. And we aren't
Sara Abernethy (43:45)
I think what we forget, whether a child is adopted or not, the agency of children and how their beautiful souls come into this world and have no sort of control over what is going on to them. we are...
Ade Carena (44:04)
mindful enough in my humblest of opinions on how our decisions affect our children.
outside of us, know? Outside of just like our own experience. And I have strong feelings about adoption, of course. I think some people are born into unfortunate circumstances. I think there are many children on this earth that need love and safety. I also do believe that we need, we so desperately need reform, particularly with international adoption, where there's laws getting mixed up, there's documents that might not be particularly
particularly true or honored. And then when you think about third world countries, the manipulation that could also happen with mothers and people with their children and thinking that the better option is out there for them and that is the only option. And so I really do believe I think for me, where we could even start would be like, how do we provide?
Sara Abernethy (44:57)
And it's the only option.
Ade Carena (45:10)
counseling services for these children.
who we don't even think about the grief that they're experiencing, particularly at that age. I was adopted at 10. I remember everything. I can walk to my school right now.
Sara Abernethy (45:20)
You remember everything. Yes.
Ade Carena (45:25)
can walk to my school. So I think it would be really necessary to provide some sort of support, emotional support to these children who have just lost, in a way, everything they've
ever known. And their identities. And I also think it's really
Sara Abernethy (45:38)
what could have been, right? Lost what could have been.
Ade Carena (45:43)
important because I don't imagine adoption is ever gonna stop. I do think that cross like international interracial adoption there is a responsibility to take on for you understanding the culture of the child that has just come into your care and to not
Sara Abernethy (45:59)
yes. Yes.
Ade Carena (46:05)
rip that away from them and to educate yourself on the ins and outs of that culture.
Sara Abernethy (46:07)
and to educate yourself on the ins and outs of that culture.
Ade Carena (46:13)
And sometimes too, I've had many conversations with people who are like, well, if I adopted a kid and they want to know their biological parents, that would hurt me because I chose you. I'm like, man, it's not about you. And that's the part some people don't even
Sara Abernethy (46:14)
sometimes too, I've had many conversations with people who are like, well if I adopted a kid and they want to know their biological parents, that would hurt me because I chose you and I'm like, it's not about you though. not about you and that's the part some people don't even.
Ade Carena (46:30)
understand. So I'm hoping.
what has happened from our documentary. And I just want to say shout out to Brad when you're talking about the sound and all these things. I call myself an intuitive cook. Brad is like an intuitive filmmaker. Like he the way his brain works is like incredible. The way he he can.
Sara Abernethy (46:40)
Lens.
Ade Carena (46:55)
It's it's similar to me in that way, like I can already see something I want to make and then I walk myself there. He can see he he's incredible the way his brain works with that.
And we also want to be very intentional in showing Africa, showing Benin with all of her beauty and not just like what the misconstrued notions or thoughts about what Africa looks like or what a third world country looks like. So we wanted to show the reality of what it is and it's a gorgeous place. It is gorgeous. I can say as a white lady who grew up in the US.
Sara Abernethy (47:24)
So we wanted to show the reality of what it is, and it's a gorgeous place. It is gorgeous. I can say, as a white lady who grew up in the US,
you hear the phrase third world country, and the first thing you're conditioned to think of is pity. Mm-hmm.
Ade Carena (47:35)
You hear the phrase third world country and the first thing you're conditioned to think of is pity. Yeah. Mm hmm.
But what I saw in the documentary, there's nothing to pay is gorgeous. Beautiful people. have community there. have education. There is abundance. Yes, there is. We think. Yeah. But I didn't come out of that experience getting introduced to Benin feeling like, yeah.
Sara Abernethy (47:41)
But what I saw in the documentary, there's nothing to pity. There's beautiful people. have community there. They have education. There is abundance there. It might not be what we're used to seeing abundance as. But I didn't come out of that experience getting introduced to Benin feeling like, I should
Ade Carena (48:05)
I need to do something to help. Yes, because it's a beautiful place
Sara Abernethy (48:05)
I need to do something to help. Yes, because it's a beautiful place.
Ade Carena (48:09)
and I hope people receive that and saw that our country has texture, it's colorful, it's beautiful and the people are also just as beautiful. But what has come out of that documentary for me is a deep healing, more for myself, opportunity
Sara Abernethy (48:27)
I hope so. I hope so.
Ade Carena (48:31)
for my mom who as the person who
What I always think about is my mother knew what my life was like in Africa, in Benin, and still chose the latter. Just imagine the space of desperation, of deep desperation you have to be in to know the day-to-day life that you experience with your child and be like, nope, I'll send her to a place I don't know.
Sara Abernethy (48:55)
and still chose the latter. Just imagine the space of desperation, of deep desperation you have to be in to know the day-to-day life that you've experienced with your child and be like, nope, I'll send her to a place I don't know.
With people I don't know. I just want people to think about that, that there's such a judgment passed on.
Ade Carena (49:15)
I just want people to think about that, that there's such a judgment passed on people
who make this decision for their children. And I think it gave my mom space to be humanized and to tell her story, which is even deeper than what we could put on camera. In 36 minutes, yes.
Sara Abernethy (49:24)
think it gave my mom space to be humanized and to tell her story, which is even deeper than what we could put on camera. In 36 minutes. yeah.
Ade Carena (49:38)
But the conversations that have come out of that documentary, like when we've done film festivals and we've done paint.
For what? What do you want to do with this? I think it would be really helpful for adoption agencies to show something like this to their teams and people who want to adopt. But then we need to do more than just show a documentary. What do we put into practice to make sure the child is supported and also those parents, you know, in a way that shifts what has happened? We've had even
people who have been displaced, connection with people across the diaspora who also feel seen. It's been like a whirlwind. And one of my favorite things to do is, we've shown this at many different schools now, different high schools in particular, and the conversations that come out of that with those babies, to me, is so incredible. At their age, they're anywhere between 15 and 17.
Sara Abernethy (50:58)
at their age, they're anywhere between 15 and 17.
Ade Carena (51:01)
mean, the children that have seen this when I go into their high schools and I cook with them and we have deep conversations about humanity and how we show up in the world and responsibility that we have to ourselves and each other. And so the film has just outgrew me
Sara Abernethy (51:03)
The children that have seen this when I go into their high schools and I cook with them and we have deep conversations about humanity and how we show up in the world and responsibility that we have to ourselves and each other. And so the film has just outgrew me.
Ade Carena (51:25)
anything that I could even have imagined and have allowed, even conversations with my own
Sara Abernethy (51:25)
anything that I could even have imagined and have a lot even conversations with my own
Ade Carena (51:29)
child.
and her finding a place of relatability with each other and making space for her to ask questions. When sometimes, I think maybe she was nine when the film first came out and she used to come, she'd be like, Mom, I feel so bad for you. I said, why, baby? Because I make my daughter lunch every day.
And she gets to be like, I want this for lunch or that for lunch. And she asked me this very question. said, did like.
Did your mom make lunch for you? And I was like, no. She said, Mom, I feel so bad for you. She was so empathetic. was the sweetest. It was the sweetest thing. I am also, you know, she's also come up to me and said, Mom, I think you would be a wonderful
Sara Abernethy (52:19)
bless.
Ade Carena (52:27)
grandma. But I just want you to know I'm not having any children. And I'm like, OK, that's totally fine. And I hope it pushes people to think more.
about how children are not like a toy or leverage. that they really think about a child as a human first and a person experiencing things in real time and that things impact them very deeply and hopefully that.
challenges us to think more about even making that decision in the first place that we're doing it from the right place and not just, we love each other so let's have a kid, you know? Not saying that's what everyone does, but it's way more than that. Like having a child is an insane experience. You are responsible for this human and not only that, like it makes time so real.
Sara Abernethy (53:11)
I'm that's what everyone does, but it's way more than that. Like having a child is an insane experience. You are responsible for this human, and not only that, like it makes time so real.
It makes time tangible, like.
Ade Carena (53:29)
It makes time tangible, like
I see it every day. And she teaches me so much too, my daughter. I'm so grateful for her. I wasn't planning for her, she showed up anyway. I was on birth control, I don't know what happened. But I love my daughter so much. She wanted to be here. And I'm so grateful for her because she's expanded
Sara Abernethy (53:32)
Yes. Yes. But she teaches me so much to my daughter. I'm so grateful for her. I didn't I wasn't planning for her and she showed up anyway. But I loved it. I was on birth control. I don't know what happened. But I love my daughter. She was she was she was meant to be here. She wanted to be here. And I'm so grateful for her because she's extended.
So spoiler alert, you have reconnected. You have reconnected with your mom. You've had the opportunity to do that. I'm sure that's been healing for all three of you. Maybe, I mean, I am very of the, I'm making this big gesture with my hands and what I'm trying to say is woo woo. I'm sure you've done healing for many cycles generationally, not just the three of you. Can you tell us about re,
Ade Carena (54:54)
So spoiler alert, you have reconnected. You have reconnected with your mom. You've had the opportunity to do that. I'm sure that's been healing for all three of you. Oh, of course. Maybe, I mean, I am very of the, I'm making this big gesture with my hands and what I'm trying to say is woo woo. I'm sure you've done healing for many cycles generationally. Oh, for sure, for sure. Can you tell us about re-establishment?
Sara Abernethy (55:24)
reestablishing that relationship with your mom and how it led you to iLeWA Foods.
Ade Carena (55:28)
yeah, so I deeply reconnected with my mom during COVID when I was struggling, right? As a teacher, a mom, failed business owner. And I thought to myself, Ade, you know how to cook, you know flavors, you.
make blends for like your dinners and stuff. You know, what can you do here? And I said, well, I can make spices. Then I said, well, can I go further? This is a conversation I'm having with myself at like three in the morning because I couldn't sleep. I went I went down a path. was like,
Sara Abernethy (56:03)
Why?
Ade Carena (56:06)
are there like West African inspired jams in the world? I said I went down a path of doing research and then I my heart landed here and I said, well, I think feeling where it's like.
Sara Abernethy (56:15)
know that feeling where it's like, d-d-d-d-d
Ade Carena (56:17)
Mm-hmm. I said, I can go deeper than this. Like, it'd be really cool to go home. And so I had already saw my mom before, but nothing came from that connection. It was more like, here's what I went through.
It was more like, what you put me through, here's what your decision made, how it impacted me. And then we left that table. There wasn't much there. And so when I this thought, said, well, let me call her. I called her and I said, would you want to go back home with me?
And she said, yeah, I told her like this idea that I had and we went home, know, 19 years later, I remember going to the market and seeing women at different stalls and then seeing young girls like maybe.
maybe five, like as young as five, holding trays on their head and selling fruits and things like that. And I'm like...
I know it's my culture. know like it's not abnormal to see this, but something in me just thought about myself as a child and why my parents thought like leaving here would make more sense for me. And a lot of it is steeped in like a better education for some reason. They think that that's what's happening out there. And I looked at that girl and I said, Mom, she shouldn't be here.
And it took me down a path of a conversation with my mom. And then I realized if women had more economic power, they might make different decisions for their children. If women were able to, that economic power can give them a greater leverage.
to make different decisions. And that's when I said, well, I don't want to make a big fuss about it because I've grown up in America all this time. I don't want to come in here with this Western mentality that like they have to change what they're doing. Yeah. So I had
Sara Abernethy (58:27)
I have to save you.
Ade Carena (58:29)
to check myself, too, because I definitely was starting to go down that path. And I said, well, how do I do it in like not a disruptive way?
And that's fair. What's fair is I wanna buy spices, I wanna make spices, I wanna make spice blends. I will source from you at a large scale. And then we will hire the women from the community because that's a job being given to them for their time, their work, and their expertise. Nothing about it was like, let's...
Sara Abernethy (59:05)
Let's empower you. Doing what you already are doing.
Ade Carena (59:05)
save you, was about creating an ecosystem. could doing absolutely. And so
with the help of my mom, we found the women that we would source our ingredients from. found the women that would help us work.
like dry the spices, grind the spices. And it went from like a small operation. It's still, I would say, still quite small because when you're in business for good, it's really hard to scale in a responsible, ethical way.
you have to make sacrifices. I'm at the place where I've proven that my spices work, we are in quite a good amount of stores, people know about Ilewa Foods now, so I'm at the point where scale is necessary. However, when I think about scale then it's like, well, if I'm working with a co-packer, what happens with the jobs that these women have?
There's a different level of questions that you have to ask yourself when you're ready to scale and You have to ask yourself Where are your values and where your morals and are you willing to compromise those things and I'm not and that's why it takes me sometimes Quite a while to fulfill all the orders that we have. It's because I refuse to Move away from the root of why I started this in the first place
Sara Abernethy (1:00:38)
Would you have to sacrifice the suppliers that you
have in Benin if you copacked?
Ade Carena (1:00:43)
If we cope if I worked with a co-packer then the women that we hire wouldn't have a job Exactly yeah, so then I'm like okay. Well. I didn't realize yeah, you know so you have to ask yourself
Sara Abernethy (1:00:49)
well then that's not gonna work because that's not the reason why you embarked on this. Yeah. I didn't realize that. Yeah.
Ade Carena (1:01:01)
deep questions and those answers, if you're staying true to yourself, has to align with your values in the first place. And so what then am I sacrificing is like my own time. Because
Sara Abernethy (1:01:09)
Yeah.
Ade Carena (1:01:19)
I'm the one making the spices. I'm the one packaging the spices.
Sara Abernethy (1:01:22)
Well that is a question I had for you like are you literally doing
this is it you and your daughter and your kids like you don't have a warehouse you don't have
Ade Carena (1:01:25)
Is it you? Yes. Your daughter? It's me. It's me. It's me. You don't have a warehouse. don't have.
Well, we work out of a commissary kitchen.
Sara Abernethy (1:01:33)
you do.
Ade Carena (1:01:35)
now it's like it's too much. And I'm now I'm busy. Yeah, I'm busy.
Sara Abernethy (1:01:37)
Yeah
Ade Carena (1:01:43)
So I'm in the place where
I'm having some really deep conversations with myself to think about how do I scale in an ethical way that still stays true to the foundation of this. And sometimes it takes me, it's not a decision I can make lightly. So it's taking me time, you know, to understand, like I toy with the idea, well, should I, should we open up a production space in Benin?
Sara Abernethy (1:01:53)
in an ethical way. Totally. Sometimes it takes me, it's not a decision I can make lightly. It's taking me time, you know, to understand, like, I toy with the idea, well, should we open up a production space in Binet?
Ade Carena (1:02:15)
But then I'm like, well, I'm
Sara Abernethy (1:02:15)
And I'm like, well, I'm
Ade Carena (1:02:17)
also from North Carolina. North Carolina is home now, too. How do I do both?
Sara Abernethy (1:02:22)
So,
Ade Carena (1:02:24)
So.
Big questions. Big questions. a clear answer. No. And then, I mean, have you thought about how big you would want it to be? Like, is the audacious dream for Ilewa Foods? The audacious dream for
Sara Abernethy (1:02:25)
big questions. Big questions, not a clear answer. then, I mean, have you thought about how big you would want it to be? Like, is the audacious dream for Ilewa Foods? The audacious dream for...
Ade Carena (1:02:42)
Ilewa Foods would be to have a space that allows me to keep my storytelling, but through spices.
and almost like like a spice house where
Sara Abernethy (1:03:00)
Mm-hmm.
It allows me to continue to source from the women at home. It gives me space to make my blends here and then teach people how to use our spices and add the historical context of like the people who, the different tribes, the different places in Because Benin is small, but the food and the spices are different from southern Benin to northern Benin. And that's just one tiny little...
Ade Carena (1:03:04)
It allows me to continue to source from the women at home. It gives me space to make my blends here and then teach people how to use our spices and give, add the historical context of like the people who, the different tribes, the different places in Benin, because Benin is small, but the food and the spices are different from like southern Benin to northern Benin. And that's just one tiny little country.
Sara Abernethy (1:03:33)
Mm-hmm
in all of Africa, there's so much to explore and uncover and teach people. And so, big picture for me would be, how do I provide work?
Ade Carena (1:03:34)
Imagine all of Africa. There's so much to explore and uncover and teach people. And so, big picture for me would be how do I provide work
for the women at home? And then how do I make it, how do I grow it here? Because the growth of Ilewa foods here or across the world is what...
allows them to make the money and allows them to work. So yes, that's the non-negotiable. The non-negotiable is
Sara Abernethy (1:04:07)
And have that leverage that you that was the that's the non-negotiable for you in this endeavor
Ade Carena (1:04:14)
that the women need to have work. So, you know, we the answers will come. and if anyone out there is like, believe in this work and I want to help you a day, please call me. Please call me because I need help.
Sara Abernethy (1:04:32)
So you have two blends. One is the suya blend, which is a peanut-based magic, right? And then one is a coffee blend. I mean, are ways that you... Actually, here's a question that is so dumb. It's actually not a dumb,
Ade Carena (1:04:32)
So you have two blends, one is the Sudia blend, which is a peanut based magic, right? And then one is a coffee blend. I mean, are ways that you, actually here's a question that is so dumb. Not dumb, it's not a dumb question.
Sara Abernethy (1:04:52)
I should not say that. It's not a dumb question.
Ade Carena (1:04:56)
So for someone who is unfamiliar with Benin how would you describe Benet's
Sara Abernethy (1:04:56)
So for someone who is unfamiliar with Benin how would you describe Beninese cuisine?
Ade Carena (1:05:02)
that right? Beninese cuisine.
I always say that Beninese food is food for the soul. The way we cook is very, it's such a labor of love and you can feel that in the food. Everything is like, laborsome.
Sara Abernethy (1:05:23)
Yes.
Ade Carena (1:05:23)
Yes, you know, from like
grinding our spices. There's no such thing as convenience here. Like we're grinding on stone. We're literally getting water from a well.
Sara Abernethy (1:05:29)
Yeah.
Ade Carena (1:05:36)
We are grinding by hand. We things take time. The way we build flavors take time. And so we have a lot of stew based dishes that are incredibly flavorful. Some have a nice little heat to it.
Sara Abernethy (1:05:42)
So we have a lot of stew based dishes that are incredibly flavorful. have a nice little heat to it.
Ade Carena (1:05:53)
We use a lot of grains and starches. We love rice, let me
Sara Abernethy (1:05:53)
We use a of grains and starches. We love a lot of stuff.
Ade Carena (1:05:59)
tell you. And then we have really, peanuts is a huge crop for us. One of our most known dishes is a peanut stew.
Lots of, I come from the southern part of Benin so we're coastal, so there's a lot of seafood in our food as well. But it's really like, just homey, warm.
Sara Abernethy (1:06:26)
to eat food, you know? I It's like comfort food. Absolutely. Yeah. I need to get my hands on some. I need to get my hands on some. I would I am not cooking as much as I wish that I was or that I previously was just because of the era of life that I'm in. But I do love a Sunday Fun Day cooking marathon. That's what it tends to be shaking out to right now. And then we sort of like live on that for the week.
Ade Carena (1:06:26)
Stewy food, you know, and I love it. It's absolutely my comfort food. need to get my hands on some. Oh, to get my hands on some. am not cooking as much as I wish that I was. It was just because of the era. I do love a Sunday. Yeah. That's what it is. Shaking out to right now. Sort of like. I love it. No, that's wonderful.
Sara Abernethy (1:06:55)
But I would love to get... But I want to make some marinades with that. Yeah.
Ade Carena (1:06:57)
bring you some spices. So we have the spice blends, also like. I want to make some marinades with that. Oh, I got I'm going to bring you some. And the the other thing, like
I have so many new products that I want to bring out from stew, like sauces to hot sauces. And it's
just difficult to do that when I'm in the midst of this decision right now, even. how do you scale? And what does that mean?
Sara Abernethy (1:07:17)
It's just difficult to do that when I'm in the midst of this decision. Yeah. how do you scale and what does that mean?
I mean, you have to be very precious about your own capacity because you're the engine.
Ade Carena (1:07:30)
yeah.
And and you know, I have built a business that I think people want to support Adé and I'm so grateful for it. And then I could be doing anything. Maybe if tomorrow I decided I was going to.
Sara Abernethy (1:07:49)
You have done that. You have done that.
Ade Carena (1:07:48)
sell hammers. People might be like, that's the best hammer out there because we love Adé And I'm grateful because I've built a brand that to me feels very community centered. That feels like people feel genuinely like they're part of this with me. And they're growing with me. And I'm grateful for that. Now that means that
it's always me.
Mm That's the other side of it. And. Mm hmm.
Sara Abernethy (1:08:13)
Yeah. That's the other side of it. Let's talk off mic about this.
That's the other side of it. Or maybe for a part deux episode. I think that is a moment many
Ade Carena (1:08:18)
That's the other side of it. Yeah, absolutely
Sara Abernethy (1:08:29)
entrepreneurs, not even just in food and beverage, find themselves in. You do this excellent job of building
and inviting others to the table in terms of connecting them to your vision and your values and the personal brand of you. There's only so you have two hands. You know, there's only so much you can do. So then how can you I have really had to do that in our restaurant since having the babies. I have had to take my foot off the gas of being involved in all the things so the restaurants can run without me. And let me tell you, like it's
It's not cute, it's really bumpy and then it does, there have been times where it, I don't know if you're afraid of this, it ever feeling disingenuous to you and the thing you've created and that's why it's hard to let go and honestly, that will probably happen at some point when you let go. It's gonna, I know and you,
Ade Carena (1:09:16)
Yes, yes. Let go. Let go. Yeah. Yeah. know. I literally know what you're saying.
Sara Abernethy (1:09:28)
but in order to get to the next level, you do
have to let go and you have to be willing to navigate
Ade Carena (1:09:32)
you have to let go and you have to be willing to navigate those
Sara Abernethy (1:09:37)
those inconsistencies when they happen.
Ade Carena (1:09:37)
inconsistencies when they happen. I have a dear friend talking to me about that right now who is like, sometimes when you're a dreamer, again, I told you I'm delusional, and I'm a big dreamer, like my visions, I think I can do anything. And sometimes it's good to have someone who is rational.
who can come back and ask you really important questions and put things into perspective for you because
Sara Abernethy (1:10:07)
Everything I do is so intentional. From like the piece of flower or plant I've decided to put on top of a menu, all of it makes sense. To the point where people might not even fully grasp Appreciate all that. Yes. And so like my friend Michael
Ade Carena (1:10:07)
everything I do is so intentional from like the piece of flower or plant I've decided to put on top of a menu. All of it makes sense to the point where people might not even fully grasp that, that it will all come together. And so like my friend,
Sara Abernethy (1:10:28)
has been asking me...
other people into the space with you to do this work, you're gonna have to learn what is yours to manage and what you can release. That's so hard. Because also you said that everything you do has to be excellent.
Ade Carena (1:10:54)
Yeah.
Sara Abernethy (1:10:55)
and has to be to your standard of excellence. And there have been so many times in the last few years where the output of my own brands has
not been excellent. The output from a guest experience and an employee experience has not been excellent. It is so painful. I think it's the hardest thing I've had to navigate. But it's an issue of control.
And I tell myself the story that like, well, if I had been in control of that, that would never have happened. And that's also not true. In a way, having children in the middle of doing this has been a gift because it has forced me to.
It's forced me to unwind myself. It's been very unmooring. That's why I started this project is to try and out loud process with a bunch of baddies how I'm going to put the next version of myself together as a restaurateur. But I. It's it's not cute. It's not cute. And I want to tell you that as a friend in a loving way that it will happen. There's no running away from that.
Ade Carena (1:11:51)
But I. It's not cute. It's not cute. I want to tell you that as a friend in a loving way that it will happen. There's no running away from that. Thank
Sara Abernethy (1:12:05)
But again, it has to happen so that you can learn. It's so hard.
Ade Carena (1:12:05)
you. It has to happen so that you can learn. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I have I
have learned such deep lessons, such big lessons in just the last year alone.
And it has changed me. I would say it has changed me in a really big way. And I
Sara Abernethy (1:12:27)
2025 was big for you.
Ade Carena (1:12:34)
am understanding that more and I have shifted some priorities. And now for me, it's about like, how do I do things in sustainable way, even if it's.
Sara Abernethy (1:12:45)
Can you say more about
Ade Carena (1:12:48)
not some grandiose thing that I imagined, but most impactful, you know? So I've shifted my priorities to allow me to be healthy.
Sara Abernethy (1:12:49)
what that looks like? I want to hear
Ade Carena (1:13:05)
Yeah, that looks like that looks like in the world where especially after winning "Chopped" people are like, where's your
Sara Abernethy (1:13:07)
it.
Ade Carena (1:13:13)
restaurant? Open a restaurant. Do this restaurant, restaurant, restaurant, restaurant. And I'm like, no, I will not open a restaurant right now. That's crazy. My daughter's 12. I have worked my ass off the last five years. I am exhausted. I am going to do what my two hands can do and be unapologetic about it and still give the
Sara Abernethy (1:13:30)
and be on the college, I think about it, and still give the
Ade Carena (1:13:34)
best of myself, but you know, I started this journey wanting a restaurant. That's all I wanted. All I wanted was a restaurant. Yeah.
Sara Abernethy (1:13:35)
best of myself, but you know, I started this journey wanting a restaurant. That's all I wanted out of it. All I wanted was a restaurant. Well, I think that's what most people, they only know that option, is that that is the paramount, that's the destination, is you get the keys to that door.
But there's so many other ways to do it. And also,
Ade Carena (1:13:53)
but there's so many other ways to do it. And also,
as I've grown and learned more about myself and like am so much more rooted in my identity, what's important to me, what I actually want, it's helped me come to that decision in a very easy way. Like, I know right now,
I do not want to open a restaurant. The season is is no.
Sara Abernethy (1:14:19)
I learned this little crab gesture. I'm doing, if you're
not watching me, I'm doing a crab gesture.
Ade Carena (1:14:25)
Yeah, I don't I don't want to open a restaurant right now.
Mm hmm. So yeah, yeah. It's so powerful. I bet you were approached by commercial real estate developers. bet you were approached by people trying to fill leases. I bet you were approached by investors. Yes, I was. And I think I'm very grateful.
Sara Abernethy (1:14:31)
so powerful. It's so powerful. I bet you were approached by commercial real estate developers. I bet you were approached by people trying to fill leases. I bet you were approached by investors after Chopped. That's so shiny.
Ade Carena (1:14:48)
I'm very grateful for the mentors I do have.
Chef Ashley Christensen is a dear friend and mentor to me. I call him Chef Uncle Ricky because it's Uncle Ricky, is a dear mentor to me. And I'll also shout out my friend Eric
Sara Abernethy (1:15:00)
Yes.
Ade Carena (1:15:09)
Ginsburg, who is a food writer, who is like
all three of those people.
Sara Abernethy (1:15:12)
Hi Eric.
Ade Carena (1:15:16)
say to me Adé a restaurant is not for you. Uncle Ricky's always like, girl, I can't even imagine you in a restaurant. And I think going back to understanding who you are.
and what is important to you, we cannot all show up the same way. I do not even see myself, if I get to a space, maybe in five years when my daughter is off to journey her own, like be in charge of her full journey, maybe, but even then, I don't imagine myself in a traditional sort of restaurant. Things that are important to me like sustainability, minimal waste
Opportunity to like returning citizens, empowered mothers, the youth and creating spaces that allow them to learn different skills. All of those things are important to me. And a traditional restaurant just wouldn't work for me. And right now, the season that I'm in and understanding who I am and what my talents are, what my gifts are, I think that's important too.
to know about yourself. What are your gifts? Because the way that shows up, might not.
work best for you inside a restaurant. So for me, it's definitely like after making that decision that a restaurant is not in my bingo cards. Currently, I opened up a supper club and, know, it's maybe 15 to 20 people each month. And it does. Yeah. And we come together and they're so open and literally.
Sara Abernethy (1:16:57)
But I bet you it sells out every time.
Ade Carena (1:17:05)
It is building the community that I imagined. So much so the last one they left there with a group chat. Yeah, a group chat and the group chat is active because we text in the group chat. And what I've always wanted is like for me, food is the cherry on top. And the fact that I cook well is I'm grateful.
because people can actually enjoy the food. But really, it's about coming into a space that allows you to not be lonely, that allows you to connect with other people in real time, but also challenge us to talk about things going on in the world around us and how we are actively going to participate in being the solution. And then when we leave that table, what are we doing afterwards?
I cannot have those conversations with people if you never see me and I'm just putting plates out on the window. It's not possible. given the tapestry of your life experience.
Sara Abernethy (1:18:12)
You, given the tapestry of your life experience.
Ade Carena (1:18:17)
Do not need to be trapped. again, like I'm not trying to tell you what you already know. The burden of maintenance, the burden of payroll, the burden of
Sara Abernethy (1:18:17)
Do not need to be trapped. And again, like, I'm not trying to tell you what you already know. The burden of maintenance, the burden of payroll, the burden
of all of that, I fear
would not serve you now because you need to be flexible, you need to have autonomy.
Ade Carena (1:18:35)
here would not serve you now because you need to be flexible, you need to have autonomy.
And entrepreneurship is so interesting because we get into this because we want autonomy, want freedom, and we want to be our own boss. And we want to carve the path.
Sara Abernethy (1:18:43)
And entrepreneurship is so interesting because we get into this because we want autonomy, we want freedom, and we want to be our own boss, and we want to carve the path.
But in many cases, and this definitely happened to me, and I know it's happened to all three of those people you just mentioned, it's not that you do end up in this moment where you're trapped and you have to figure out.
Ade Carena (1:18:53)
But in many cases, and this definitely happened to me, and I know it's happened to all three of those people you just mentioned, it's not that you do end up in this moment where you're trapped and you have to figure out.
Sara Abernethy (1:19:05)
how to get out of that, it can be very, very painful. And this supper club concept, you're saying the things that we all say when we wanna open a restaurant, we wanna create a space for people to come connect in real life and create memories and tell stories and be together. But you're really doing that and you're probably savoring it every time, so much more. You get to create a new menu every time. You get to have that creative muscle. I've seen that a number of times
You get these really talented creative people in a position like a chef de cuisine and then they feel trapped because they have a great time creating this menu but then they have to make it every day. And that can feel very suffocating. And yeah, maybe...
Ade Carena (1:19:36)
get these really talented creative people in a position like a chef de cuisine and then they feel trapped because they have a great time creating this menu but then they have to make it. They have to make it every day. And that can feel very suffocating. yeah maybe
you and I have discussed in the past like yeah is there a financial benefit to having a brick and mortar sometimes because yeah people are
Sara Abernethy (1:19:57)
You and I have discussed in the past, like, yeah, is there a financial benefit to having a brick and mortar sometimes because, yeah, people are coming
Ade Carena (1:20:17)
Yes.
Sara Abernethy (1:20:06)
through the door whenever you're open, as opposed to when you as a more mobile chef, when you want revenue, you got to make you got to make it. You got to make it happen every time. But that's a different kind of it's just different.
Ade Carena (1:20:21)
It is. They're both very different. They both have their pros. They both have their cons. And again, I just really want to empower people that it's really about what works for you. It's what works for you.
Sara Abernethy (1:20:30)
For you, you're so wise. You are so wise.
Ade Carena (1:20:35)
I'm gonna flip this table. It's such a power move to be like...
Sara Abernethy (1:20:35)
I'm gonna flip this table. It's such a power move to be like, I
won chopped and I'm not gonna open a restaurant. It's so badass.
I'm sure.
Ade Carena (1:20:46)
I received that. you. Thank you. mean, and also, man, it has its challenges, too. You know, I also I've gained so much, but I also feel like I've lost so much.
You know, I just everything, all the highs that have happened. There's been so many lows to I look back and I think about the people who are with me when it was just even a thought. I remember who was sitting with me when I put in my application for Chef Showdown. And then I remember who was there in the room with me when I won that. I remember who was in the room with me when I
Sara Abernethy (1:20:58)
You know, with the decision or. Yeah
Ade Carena (1:21:27)
I won, when our documentary won its first award. And I remember who literally went to New York with me when I filmed for Chopped. And I turn around and like.
Sara Abernethy (1:21:29)
when our documentary won its first award. And I remember who literally went to New York with me when I filmed for Chalk. And I turned around and like...
Ade Carena (1:21:45)
They're not here anymore. And those things stay with you too as an entrepreneur. And how relationships are navigated. I think sometimes when you are someone who excels and you are someone who you put your mind to something and you achieve it, also think about...
how other ways in which that shows up in your life.
Sara Abernethy (1:22:12)
You're
Ade Carena (1:22:13)
think when you do something really well, people forget that you're human. People forget that you're human. When you're able to navigate stress in such a way.
that comes across as if you've got it, which I do, I am the pivot queen. Like I work really well under pressure. People forget that you're human. People forget that your growth is growth for you too. And sometimes it's not.
Pretty growth. You're trying to figure it out too. And then going back to like the expectations
Sara Abernethy (1:22:52)
You're trying to figure it out too. then going back to the expectation.
Ade Carena (1:22:59)
everybody has of you because of whatever you are to them, a mother, a partner, a sister, a friend, whatever. When you work at a level of excellence for so long, there's almost no grace. If you show up differently.
Sara Abernethy (1:23:14)
Yes.
Ade Carena (1:23:19)
because it's unimaginable that you may not know what to do right now. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes. Yeah. So that's a big lesson I've learned in the last maybe two years is...
I people might not see me as like a real human because they just see me doing well. They see me achieving things I set out to achieve. And I think we forget that I didn't wake up and win "Chopped" I didn't wake up and win Chef of the Year. I didn't wake up and win anything. I worked.
so hard and navigated so many things to get there. And when I got there, it's like a reset. It's a new set of lessons that are coming. And now I have to master those lessons. And again, sometimes that's not pretty. And I invite everyone into just giving so much grace to people. Like, I'm not saying let people treat you like shit. Absolutely not.
Sara Abernethy (1:24:22)
Now what? It's a new set of lessons that are coming. And now I have to master those lessons. again, sometimes it's not pretty. And I invite everyone into just giving so much grace to people. I'm not saying let people treat you like shit, absolutely not.
Ade Carena (1:24:43)
But let us remember the humanity in all of us
Sara Abernethy (1:24:43)
But let us remember the humanity in all of us.
Ade Carena (1:24:47)
and make space for grace. Make space for grace for yourself, even especially. Especially number one, but that's very challenging. I remember somebody.
Sara Abernethy (1:24:47)
And make space for grace. Make space for grace. Make space for grace. For yourself, It's very, yes, especially number one, but that's very challenging. I remember somebody
saying to me in a moment of a very deep low in my restauranting journey, one of the most powerful things you can do is let other people be wrong about you.
Ade Carena (1:25:21)
And I feel like that is related to this tune of we need to have grace with each other and ourselves. sometimes we have to let them be wrong. Oh my gosh. That is such a gem.
Sara Abernethy (1:25:22)
And I feel like that is related to this tune of we need to have grace with each other and ourselves, but sometimes we have to let them be wrong.
Ade Carena (1:25:37)
And I hope any young, especially any young girl or any young person.
receives that and I hope that that stays with them because sometimes it has to be enough that you know yourself and you know your heart and you gotta hold your head strong and keep moving forward and let people think what they want to think. It's a hard thing to do. It's such a hard thing to do because you're like,
Sara Abernethy (1:26:08)
It's unnatural, but it's so hard.
Ade Carena (1:26:13)
I'm a good person.
Sara Abernethy (1:26:25)
Let people be wrong. Because again, your capacity is very precious. know, I think you, first of all, I think you've been here before. Like,
Ade Carena (1:26:31)
You know, I think you, first of all, I you've been here before.
Sara Abernethy (1:26:36)
I don't think this is your first time here on planet Earth. For somebody to be so young and gorgeous and sparkly and to have been on the path you've been on, you've been here before. Yeah. Yeah.
Ade Carena (1:26:41)
be so young and gorgeous and sparkly and to have been on the path you've been on, you've been here before. Thank you, I receive that. Thank you.
Sara Abernethy (1:26:54)
I don't know where I was going with that. Maybe I just wanted to say that to you.
Ade Carena (1:26:56)
Thank you. No, I receive
it. And I just again, I think when you just remind yourself that you are on this journey to grow and become a better version of yourself, you might take things
just a little less personal. know, you have to do that sometimes. You just try to be like, and keep going. Can I ask you about more thing? This might have to be a two-parter. OK.
Sara Abernethy (1:27:12)
It's just a little less personal, you know? You have to be that person and you just gotta do it over there. Okay. And she's done. Can I, do you have time for me to ask you about one more thing? This might have to be a two-parter, because it's just
so juicy, it's so juicy and delicious, but I really do wanna ask you, I do wanna ask you about your relationship with Chef Ashley, because she has also been, in many ways, a fairy godmother for me as well. How did you find each other?
Ade Carena (1:27:26)
I'm open to that. Mm hmm.
The year before I won Chef of the Year, I was invited to the Chef's Field Trip that happens every year that the Ag department puts on that invites local chefs to Oriental And they do a whole bunch of activities, and it allows you to connect with...
suppliers and all these things and vineyards and things like that. So I remember that's where I met her for the first time. She was there with some members of her team and Auntie Preeti from Cheeni was also there and Heidi. And I remember being like, and there was one other person there. And I said, there was like five of us women and.
just a shit ton of men. And we found ourselves, you know, like at a table and we had a lovely conversation. And I remember Chef saying, before I leave, I'm gonna get your information. And the next day before she left, she did that. And she said, you know, let's get coffee sometimes and...
She kept her word on us getting coffee and we sat down to have coffee and she's just been like, how do I support
Sara Abernethy (1:28:52)
It's just been like, how do I support?
Ade Carena (1:28:54)
you ever since? And gives me so much wisdom and she's such a beautiful soul. think sometimes like.
you reach a certain level probably with you know things you've built you like she could be not a giving person and been like I've already done my did it done that like I'm off to chill now but that's not her heart like she's very much about giving information giving wisdom
supporting, space. Like I sent her a text the other day about how grateful I am for the spaces she has invited me into and then like allowed me to go down my path with it. But I'm really grateful for her. She's been a really she's been a blessing to me. I can echo that.
Sara Abernethy (1:29:48)
I can echo that sentiment.
That's a really beautiful way to say it. The space she's in, I feel like I've been invited in as well. And she's been just such a role model for, like, what would Ashley do in the situation? And...
Ade Carena (1:30:08)
imprinted on me how I want to make other people feel as well. are entering into the Raleigh market, entering into restaurants. Yeah. really been very impactful. And also, you know, we like this is kind
Sara Abernethy (1:30:08)
imprinted on me how I want to make other people feel as well who are entering into the Raleigh market, entering into restaurants. She's really been very impactful.
Ade Carena (1:30:23)
of a competitive field, I would say. I agree,
but I felt that way. Not when I'm with her. No, not with Chef. No, no.
Sara Abernethy (1:30:26)
I but I haven't felt that way, not when I'm with her at least.
Ade Carena (1:30:31)
What I wanted to say was like. It is impossible.
for anyone to do what I do. It is impossible for me to do what anyone else does. And I think if we just remind ourselves again that like my makeup is different than yours and whatever energy, whatever, whatever history I have that comes with it is not yours. So there is, it's like impossible for.
me to be able to do what you do, you know, because I'm not you. And when I think about.
Sara Abernethy (1:31:06)
me to be able to do what you do, you know? Because I'm not you. And when I think about
making space for other people, that's the first thing that comes to my mind, is there's nobody here in competition because you're just different people. And it's impossible for you to cook what I
Ade Carena (1:31:13)
making space for other people, that's the first thing that comes to my mind is there's nobody here in competition because we are just different people and it's impossible for you to cook what I've
cooked, you know? Because I come with other things than you come with. And if you leave from that space, you always make room for others because there's nothing for you to even be thinking. No one's coming to take anything from you. Everything that's yours is going
Sara Abernethy (1:31:27)
you know? Because I come with other things that you come with. And if you leave from that space, you always make room for others. there's nothing for you to even be thinking, no one's coming to take anything from you. Everything that's yours is going
to be yours, and that's it.
It's a very abundance mindset philosophy, but I think it's also a very feminine energy philosophy that is unique to this circle. don't get those vibes. No offense to men out there. mean, her seat at the table is not a manhating space. We love men, but it is different. It's innately different.
Ade Carena (1:32:07)
It is different. It's innately different. I would agree that it's innately different.
And then the other person I wanted to ask you about, in addition to Chef Ashley, we love you, AC Yes. Is how you got introduced to Chef Georgiana Vieux. your relationship with her. Absolutely. What an incredible mentor for you. Yeah, that one's really just
Sara Abernethy (1:32:13)
And then the other person I wanted to ask you about, in addition to Chef Ashley, we love you, A.C. Mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah,
Ade Carena (1:32:33)
as personal as Chef Ashley is. This one's also really
special
to me. I last year I won the sky's the limit Delta Delta's externship that was presented by map and MAPP is a gorgeous organization that supports all things women in the hospitality industry. Yes.
Sara Abernethy (1:32:42)
the Sky's Delimit Delta's externship that was presented by MAP, and MAP is a gorgeous organization that supports all things women in the hospitality industry. MAP Impact and Joanna James, I can't remember what MAP stands for right now. I'm looking at the camera.
Joanna James, MAP, M-A-P-P, it stands for something, doesn't it? It stands for all things
Ade Carena (1:33:04)
stands for all things
women in the hospitality
Sara Abernethy (1:33:08)
my god, I'm gonna when I edit this I'm gonna put
what it stands for above my face. Joanna also is a wonderful documentary filmmaker and beautiful storyteller and that's where we met actually was through MAPP Impact.
Ade Carena (1:33:13)
Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
So she's doing great work there that is really impactful for women. And so they presented this externship and it was their inaugural one.
Sara Abernethy (1:33:25)
Yes. You
Ade Carena (1:33:30)
I said that right. Thank you.
Sara Abernethy (1:33:30)
did? Bravo.
Ade Carena (1:33:32)
Thank you. And so I got to go to France and spent time with chef Georgiana, who also happens to be from Benin and not only just happens to be from Benin, but is the first African woman to receive a Michelin star. So talk about.
Sara Abernethy (1:33:41)
Just beautiful.
Ade Carena (1:33:53)
Kismet or even, yes, it just is incredible.
Sara Abernethy (1:33:53)
Kismet, serendipity, yes.
Ade Carena (1:33:58)
I never imagined to have such a connection. And when I was there with her, just learning about her, I almost, it almost felt like we were the same person on different sides of the timeline.
Sara Abernethy (1:34:10)
Yes.
Ade Carena (1:34:11)
understanding her story, seeing similarities in mine, seeing things that she has experienced that I'm literally navigating in real time and seeing things that she's experiencing that I have already navigated to and we just connected on that sort of a level
Sara Abernethy (1:34:11)
understanding her story, seeing similarities in mine, seeing things that she has experienced that I'm literally navigating in real time, and seeing things that she's experiencing that I have already navigated to, and we just connected on that sort of a level.
Ade Carena (1:34:28)
and I thought, well, if...
You invite me here. Can I invite you here with me to North Carolina? And she was like, yeah, girl. I said just like
Sara Abernethy (1:34:33)
If you invite me here, can I invite you here with me? To North Carolina.
Ade Carena (1:34:40)
that. Oh, OK. And then I got to work to making it possible. How long was the trip in France? I was there for 10 days. Yes. With her in the kitchen. Mm We cooked. We hung out. We ate. We talked. We got to interview her. She's going to be a part of our
Sara Abernethy (1:34:45)
How long was the trip in France? I was there for 10 days. Yes, like with her in the kitchen. We cooked, we hung out, we ate, we talked. We got to interview her. She's going to be a part of our...
Ade Carena (1:34:57)
next documentary project. And she just has a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful story.
And it's like, just adding to the idea that the biggest question I have is why are the answers elsewhere? Why do we feel like the success is elsewhere? What is it, why can't we navigate it in our homeland? So I'm really fascinated about leaving the continent to explore food in a different way.
Sara Abernethy (1:35:17)
can't be like, navigated in our homeland. know, so I'm really fascinated about leaving the continent to explore food in a different way.
Ade Carena (1:35:31)
But what is beautiful about
Sara Abernethy (1:35:31)
But what is beautiful about
Ade Carena (1:35:33)
Chef is Chef has returned home. She opened a restaurant in Benin called Lamy at the Sofitel Hotel in Cotonou. And that's incredible in providing. I'm just imagine how amazing it is for young chefs wherever you are in the world to know that the food of your home is able to
grow and be reimagined in ways that feel good to you and can be recognized, you know, on a global stage. And that to me is what she represents. You know, and I'm just grateful for her. Not yet. I will. I will. Well, I'm planning it and I'm hoping that this trip allows me to invite others to join
Sara Abernethy (1:36:09)
stage and that to me is what she represents. That's so awesome. Have you been to the restaurant? Not yet. But you will go. you have another trip on the books to go home? Well, I'm planning it and I'm hoping that this trip allows me to invite others to go.
Ade Carena (1:36:28)
me.
Don't you even tease me like that. I'm gonna cry.
Sara Abernethy (1:36:29)
Don't you even tease me like that. I'm gonna cry.
Ade Carena (1:36:33)
Yeah, I'm hoping that this whatever I'm working on allows others to join me. hmm. Yeah. Well, I can't wait to stay tuned. Yes, please stay tuned because you just saw the film and you saw Benin and you and you probably are feeling pulled towards Benin
Sara Abernethy (1:36:42)
Well, I can't wait to stay tuned. Why am I getting emotional? Why am I crying? You just saw the film and you saw the movie and you probably assumed colds were thinning.
Ade Carena (1:36:54)
and Benin is a really tiny country, but it has such rich.
rich history. Like when we think about what it is to be black in this world and what our history is and where we come from, the Bight of Benin, which all the puns intended on the title of our film, that's where a lot of our ancestors passed through. And it has deep history. Yeah, so Benin is.
Sara Abernethy (1:37:18)
my god. I didn't wow.
Ade Carena (1:37:25)
gorgeous space. I think everyone, everyone on this earth, it doesn't matter
Sara Abernethy (1:37:25)
Yeah.
Ade Carena (1:37:32)
what culture or what your heritage is, everyone on this earth should go to Africa and do that walk that that our enslaved ancestors did so you can fully understand what. I'll digress because there's no way to fully understand, but you can have.
Sara Abernethy (1:37:49)
Please.
Ade Carena (1:37:52)
an idea. To put your feet in the same footprints. Mm-hmm. And hope that it resonates with people. I
Sara Abernethy (1:37:54)
To put your feet in the same footprints.
Ade Carena (1:38:03)
like to tell black folk, like, there's so much healing that needs to be done. And when we think about epigenetics and how we talk about how trauma is passed down generationally and
the world, are working on healing ourselves. I like to invite, and I always say, my white cousins into that same practice. So I'd imagine if it is passed down, if trauma is passed down from generation to generation, I think imagine what you are holding to and how you can do some work in releasing that for yourself through your own lineage, you know? So we can all come together and like...
Sara Abernethy (1:38:43)
Yeah, yeah Because
Ade Carena (1:38:48)
as a collective. So everyone, everyone needs to touch that soil, I'm convinced. Because it changed me when I went the first time. After not being home for so many years, it was an impactful experience for me and it changed my entire life and it has taken me down a path
Sara Abernethy (1:38:50)
it changed me when I went the first time. After not being home for so many years, it was an impactful experience for me and it changed my entire life and it has taken me down a path.
Ade Carena (1:39:10)
of understanding that I am, children like me who have lived between a multitude of identities,
We are a bridge and we can use our experience and our lived experience to bring people together to understand that we have way more in common than we do things that separate us. Thank you. That's very kind. Thank you.
Sara Abernethy (1:39:40)
You really are. I'm so
blessed to have crossed paths with you and to know you truly. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this. Everyone needs to know about Ade Carina. You need to know about Elewa Foods. We need to know about Dounou Cuisine, which is your other company that you do some projects through. Dounou Supper Club. They can find you on Instagram at
Ade Carena (1:39:44)
cross paths with you. Me too. Truly. Me too. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this. course. Everyone needs to know about Adai Karena. You need to know about Ilewa Foods. You need to know about Dounou Cuisine, which is your other company that you do projects through. Our supper club is Dounou Supper Club. Dounou Supper Club. can find you on Instagram. They can. At Adai
Karena or at Ilewa Foods or
Our website, ilewafoods.com has all the information there. And that is I-L-E-W-A foods.com. Thank you for spelling it. It has two R's in it. C-A-R-R-E-N-A. Thank you so much. I love you. I love you, too. Thank you for having me. This is a blessing. I think keep doing it. Keep doing it. Keep living your experience out loud. There's no right way to do this. And I think as
Sara Abernethy (1:40:17)
and that is I-L-E-W-A foods.com. Carrena has two R's in it. C-A-R-R-E-N-A. Thank you so much. I love you. I love you too. Thank you for having me. This is a blessing. I think keep doing it. Keep doing it. Keep living your experience out loud. There's no right way to do this. And I think as...
Ade Carena (1:40:42)
authentic as you can be,
as possible is necessary to show others that it is okay. And thank you for a platform that allows us women to like share our stories. That's so needed and so important. So thank you for having me and I love you too.
Sara Abernethy (1:40:55)
It's an honor. is an honor.