Earth on the Rocks

Joining us today is Dr. Ginny Gong, an observational and earthquake seismologist studying what causes earthquakes and what they can tell us about our planet. Learn about white coffee, how we can tell the structure of the Earth deep below the surface, what a seismometer is and how we install or deploy them, the logistics of measuring plate movement and deformation in the oceans (which can involve a cruise, some melting metal, and balloons), and IU's connection to CBS's Sunday Morning. 

What is Earth on the Rocks?

Welcome to Earth on the Rocks, a show where we get to know the person behind the science over drinks. Each episode will highlight a new scientist in the earth and atmospheric sciences to learn more about their journey, what interests them, and who they are outside of their science.

Host: Shelby Rader
Producer: Cari Metz
Artwork: Connor Leimgruber
Board Operator: Kate Crum, Betsy Leija
Funding for this podcast was provided by the National Science Foundation grant EAR-2422824.

Shelby:

Hi, folks, and welcome back to Earth on the Rocks, the show where we get to know the person behind the science. I'm your host, Shelby Rader, and joining us today is doctor Ginny Gong. Ginny, thanks for coming on the show.

Ginny:

Thank you, Shelby, for having me here today.

Shelby:

So we're gonna get to know you over drinks today. So what would be either your drink of choice or or you can do both of them, your drink of non choice as Kaa introduced last season. Does coffee count? Yeah. Coffee counts.

Shelby:

Is that your drink of choice or non choice?

Ginny:

Yeah. That's my drink of choice.

Shelby:

Okay. Do you drink it hot, cold?

Ginny:

Yes. Hot, and I prefer sweet flavors. So the type of coffee I want to produce is a Southeast Asia white coffee. Yeah. So my understanding that white coffee, it just coffee beans are roasted in a different way.

Ginny:

Okay. Like, you put sugar, wheat, and maybe some other ingredients during the roasting process, and that add flavors to the coffee beans. And the brand that I used to drink is called O Tang. Uh-huh. It's from Malaysia.

Ginny:

So I have been drinking them constantly. Yeah. But a little bit unfortunate because of the tariff, the price has been up for 50%.

Shelby:

Yeah. So I I have a lot of questions. I didn't even know this was a thing. This is so interesting. Oh, okay.

Shelby:

So I I really like coffee, but I I don't drink it black. I always have to have, like, milk or cream to sort of help balance it. Yeah. And it sounds like this Yeah. That would do that for me.

Ginny:

That's the exact milky and creamy type of So

Shelby:

how much did it used to cost, and how much does it cost now?

Ginny:

I think I I used to buy, like, three bags in a package, and that's 25 to $30 for three package. Yeah. And each package can so it's an instant coffee. And each package has 15 it's, like, small smaller package inside it. So it's not super expensive, like, a little bit higher price than typical coffee, but it's not super expensive.

Ginny:

Yeah. Like, however, now it's kinda too expensive, and I'm drinking the Starbucks in the department, and I'm drinking Dunkin' Donuts.

Shelby:

Yeah. You've had to downgrade itself.

Ginny:

I'm a little bit.

Shelby:

Well, hopefully, you can start getting that again. And if you do, I would love to try it sometime. It sounds really So if someone were to sort of come up to you and ask, what do you do? Or how would you classify yourself, what would you respond to that, or how would you answer?

Ginny:

I would say I'm a seismologist and observational seismologist. I deal with data, processing the data. And I'm an earthquake seismologist. So my main research interest is to study how earthquake occurs and what's the earthquake hydros related to a certain area.

Shelby:

The term seismologist, I think a lot of people may initially think, oh, obviously that's earthquakes. But then you specified you're an earthquake seismologist. So what would sort of a broad seismologist focus in?

Ginny:

It is a very good question. I think in seismology, we kind of characterize the research into two big fields. One is earthquake to study the earthquake processes, and the other is the Earth's structure to understand the structure of the Earth's crust, mantle, core.

Shelby:

Yeah. So so we can use seismological tools to understand what Earth looks like below the surface because that's an area that we can't go to for a number of reasons. We can't, you know, just I know there are movies that show that we can do this. We can't just hop in some sort of shuttle and go tens or hundreds of kilometers below Earth's surface. So how can we use seismology to understand Earth's structure below the surface?

Ginny:

Yeah. I think an analog would be like an acoustic, that is, in medical science. And you send waves through the structure, through the body, and then you'll be able to understand its structure. And earthquake is kind of the the source within the earth, and once an earthquake occur, it will radiate waves all throughout the whole body of the earth. And nowadays, we have the seismometers located globally, and you can record the seismic waves, and that tells you the structure of the path where the waves travel through inside the Earth.

Shelby:

And it does that because the waves behave differently depending on what they're traveling through?

Ginny:

I think one main thing we use is related to the travel time. So the longer the distance, the longer it takes for the wave to arrive, or the slower the velocity, the media, it takes longer for the wave to arrive. And just using the arrival time, we can know a lot about just how fast or slow different parts of the Earth is like. Very cool.

Shelby:

And so you also said you're an observational seismologist. And so what does that sort of mean? What are you observing? Or what observations are you and your group making?

Ginny:

Yeah. I I think the seismology like, we need to understand the wave propagating effect within the Earth. So some people will be more focused on doing numerical simulations to get the physics correct. So they are more theoretical in my definition. And my research just we use the data and trying to make a sort of an inverse process to infer the structure if we were more focused on the data processing part by using the existing theories in our analysis.

Ginny:

And so that's related to earth structure, but and also on the earthquake source side, there's also a a big group of people doing theoretical analysis, doing lab experiments, and doing numerical simulations to understand the earthquake rupture process. But during my research, I mostly are using the seismic data recorded by seismometers to infer what kind of process has occurred during an earthquake rupture.

Shelby:

So trying to understand what process is resulting in these earthquakes Yes. What's causing them. And then from that, once these waves from that earthquake start to propagate, then what do those waves tell us about Earth's structure below the surface?

Ginny:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes.

Shelby:

And so is your group like, you mentioned there are these seismometers that can record some of these data, and I want to come back and ask some questions about seismometers. Is your group sort of going out and deciding where to put these seismometers, or is your group using data from seismometers that are already in place or a combination?

Ginny:

It's a good question. We actually use both. So sometimes we will design our own experiment and deploy them in the field. And sometimes seismology has gone through a long way. And currently, there are terabytes of terabytes of available data that is open, publicly accessible.

Ginny:

And we're leveraging that kind of data as well. So it's pretty cool, I think. And, yeah, the type of data that we use so I I mentioned I work on earthquake studies. And if you think about where earthquake occur on the Earth, and a lot of them, they occur beneath the ocean because ocean covers 70% of the of the Earth. And most of the earthquake, they occur on plate boundaries, and a lot of the plate boundaries are located beneath the beneath the ocean.

Ginny:

So a major part of my research is I use the data collecting by seismometer that sits on the seafloor.

Shelby:

Okay. I have now I have a lot

Ginny:

of questions because this

Shelby:

whole process seems sort of wild. So can you tell us, for listeners who are unfamiliar with this process, what is a seismometer, and how is it recording these data points that you're ultimately using?

Ginny:

So basically, a seismometer is recording the ground motion. Most of the time, I don't see the ground moves, but, actually, it is vibrating all the time, and it is just the the amplitude is very small. So seismometer, it assists on the ground and is measuring the motion of the Earth's surface in the up down, east west, and north south components. And it's micrometer to nanometer scale. It's very sensitive instrument.

Shelby:

Wow. So that size of variation of movement, micrometer to nanometer, which is

Ginny:

Well, maybe not nanometer, but micrometer.

Shelby:

Which is still tiny.

Ginny:

That's really impressive. And so that's why for a magnitude five earthquake, you will be able to record it nowadays all over the Earth.

Shelby:

So whenever you go and you say deploy these, this means you're putting them in the field. How big are they? How big is a seismometer, and how does this deployment work? How do you put them in place and make sure they stay there?

Ginny:

There are different kinds. The big ones can be, like, I would say, 10 inch Okay. Ish. So those high quality ones that you need to dig a hole on the ground, and maybe, like, you want to make good quality, you can put some concrete on the bottom too so that the instrument is coupled well with the ground, leveled well with the ground, and then bury it. But now nowadays, the seismometers are getting smaller and smaller, so it becomes easier and easier for fieldwork.

Ginny:

And we actually recently purchased 20 ish of these compact seismometers, and they are only 10 centimeters in this length and width. Height can be 30 centimeters.

Shelby:

So pretty small.

Ginny:

Yeah, pretty small. You only need to dig a smaller hole and put it down.

Shelby:

And how expensive are these? How much does one of these things cost?

Ginny:

And the price has gone down a lot. The one that I got is around 1 k.

Shelby:

$1,000 each.

Ginny:

$1,000 each.

Shelby:

Yeah. And so when you decide to go and deploy these, how do you collectively decide where you want to put them? So like what sorts of questions or what's the thought process that goes into determining these are the locations that we need to deploy these and where we want to make these measurements.

Ginny:

I think there are broad scale questions and then logistical questions that we need to consider to design an experiment. Use this experiment that we are going to deploy as an example to illustrate this. So during this semester, the geophysical group has been interested in the seismic hydros in Wabash Valley across the border between Illinois and Indiana.

Shelby:

Which I think also maybe is surprising to some folks that this part of the country has seismic activity.

Ginny:

Yes. Well, I think during Kai's episode, he mentioned, like, there's a magnitude 5.2 earthquake that he experienced as an early scientist when he started his job And occasionally, we'll have, like, magnitude four, negative five in the Wabash Valley Fault Zone. And, like, from some paleoseismic evidence, it indicates that there can be even larger magnitude events up to six, negative six or seven. So the origin of those earthquakes in the Midcontinent is not very well understood, and that's sort of the big question that we are trying to ask during this similar series that we organized this semester. So we have been reading papers on regional geology, regional geophysical imaging studies, regional seismicity, regional cross hole deformation papers.

Ginny:

So all those informations gave us, ideally, how we kind of narrow down to a specific site. And then the students, they also spend time, like, collecting existing earthquake catalogs and putting them into the QGIS database, and also they collect existing experiments that were, like, done in this area, so we know what have been studied in this field. So the it's really a combination of all those informations. I think the the big question is why do we have earthquake in Wabash Valley? But, like, it's a process of integrating all those different kinds of informations that lead us to a decision where we want to put the seismometer.

Ginny:

So I think the the site that I'm we're planning to do is related to the epicenter of the two thousand eight. It's called the Monte Carmel earthquake, the magnitude 5.2. It is an interesting earthquake in the sense that so we have the Wabash Valley. The fault usually goes north south, but that earthquake occurs on a fault that goes east west. So there's some like, Michael Hamburger, a professor in the engineering department, he had a study where he inferred there are some interesting fault structures under underneath.

Ginny:

And so I'm I'm, like, generally interested in what kind of earth structure produced that earthquake. So then you would consider some logistical constraints, how we can deploy these instruments. And so we just look at Google Earth map. Where are the streets? Where are people where do people live?

Ginny:

And I think very luckily, I find there's a North South Road that goes right across the fault line of that 2,000

Shelby:

So basically intersects

Ginny:

the fault that

Shelby:

was the cause of this two thousand and eight earthquake.

Ginny:

Yes. And I was very happy, like, oh, there's a street light that's really convenient. And then we started to think, oh, if you want to deploy it under next to the road, you have to get a permit. And that got me really nervous during this week. It's like, I was wondering, oh, will I be able to get a permit?

Ginny:

Where should I get a permit at all? And, actually, is very helpful. Yeah. You ask him, like, how should I get permits to deploy instruments next to the road? And I was really surprised.

Ginny:

It pulled out, like, you need to contact the highway department and you will find out the person, kind of the county engineer information. So I don't know whether this will work or not, but I I did, like, I introduced my environment through an email to the county engineer. And surprisingly, he was very supportive.

Shelby:

So so, yeah, I guess the logistical aspect of this is no matter where you are across the globe trying to deploy these things, you're gonna have to have someone who gives you permission

Ginny:

Yes.

Shelby:

To use whatever land you wanna deploy them on Right. To dig a hole, potentially pour a concrete small concrete slab, and then put these these seismometers there.

Ginny:

I I think for the ones that I'm using, like, you don't need concrete. You just dig a hole, bury them. Yeah. So the instrument has become more and more rugged now, so it's more and more convenient for the user. Yeah.

Ginny:

But I I was very surprised that I I got the permit so easily. And, actually, after after this, I'm I'm driving down

Shelby:

Oh.

Ginny:

To work out.

Shelby:

Yes. Okay. Yeah. So this this deployment is happening this weekend. Right?

Shelby:

So

Ginny:

No. This week and next week. Next weekend. So I will meet with the county engineer. I think, like, for this field work, it's important to make in person Yeah.

Ginny:

Contact. Like, even though he will not be involved in the field work, but I I think it's it's helpful for him to know who we are, what we come here for. He lived in that area. He knows that earthquake very well. So I think that's also maybe a reason why he's very supportive Yeah.

Ginny:

Of of this study. But I am also planning to talk to some landowners. It would be better, like, to deploy these instruments in people's homes, but, like, depending whether they're interested or not. Like, if they're not, I will leave them just, like, on the side of the road.

Shelby:

Yeah. Well, I think that sort of community engagement with science to me is really important and is a lot of fun.

Ginny:

Yeah.

Shelby:

Because, you know, sometimes you probably get folks that are not that interested or or willing to engage. But more often than not, in my experience, you actually get people that are are really curious whenever you start to talk about these sorts of things because, like you just mentioned, they have a direct personal connection with that area and whatever you're interested in. And so they wanna know, you know, why did this thing happen in 2008? And is this something we need to be worried about in the next few years or decades? And so I think having those sorts of meetings is really beneficial.

Shelby:

You also mentioned that this deployment is part of a seminar. And so for folks that are listening, oftentimes we'll offer courses that are called seminars for mostly graduate students, but sometimes undergraduate as well where it's sort of paper based so you start to read papers and talk about them as a group and understand the applications and the takeaways from them and then in this instance you all had, you know, most of the semester now to to read up and learn about these sorts of things. And now you get to go to the field with these students and deploy these seismometers, which I think is such a fun aspect that they get to be involved. Maybe they don't I think they probably will feel that way when they're digging the holes, maybe not. But but, yeah, I think that's a a really great way to sort of engage students in the process.

Ginny:

Yeah. Yeah. So I I was hoping this could be, like, a student led project so they get very hands on experience from just a rough idea that becomes more and more concrete to lead to a real deployment. And I'm also hoping that we can use the data for my spring.

Shelby:

Yeah. Yeah. Think that would be great to be able to incorporate it that way. Once these seismometers are buried, how long do they last? How long will they continue to collect data before you have to do maintenance or replace them?

Ginny:

Yeah. So, like, the type of seismometers that I use, it really depends on the battery life. So this deployment will last for a month, and that's basically the kind of the the battery supported time. And for some seismometers that you're you deploy in very remote area, you will install, like, solar panels to generate yeah. To charge the battery.

Shelby:

So with this deployment, you say the batteries last a month. Is the plan after a month to go and swap the batteries?

Ginny:

Yeah. So, no, no, Just take them off.

Shelby:

Yeah, was gonna say that would definitely have a lot of use for student involvement there. So you also earlier in this conversation mentioned that a lot of what you do is focusing on how some of these plates are moving under the ocean. So how do you deploy these things on the ocean bottom? That seems incredibly logistically challenging. Yeah.

Ginny:

I think nowadays it's getting easier and easier because if you select a site in the ocean, like either subduction zones or mid ocean ridges or transform fault area where majority of the large earthquake occurs. In The US, the ocean bottom seismometers are operated under a program that is supported by NSF called OPSIC, Ocean Bottom Seismometer Instrument Center, and that they have dedicated engineers that prepare the instrument. They will go on the cruise with you, and that they will deploy the seismometer. And students can sometimes involve in preparing the instrument on the ship, but majority of the work were literally done by those engineers. So it's, like, for the science people, we mostly decide where we want to put the seismometer, but the engineering part, the technical part were almost, like, completely handled by the technicians at this moment.

Ginny:

And to deploy seismometer in the ocean, obviously, we have to drive a ship to our study site, and the ship will have a what we call a frame. So, like, you can lift the instrument through that a frame, and the a frame will lower to the ocean side. And then the seismometer is hung on the a frame with a there's a rope that the tech technicians can can tie with their hand, and then they will pull the rope, and the seismometer will just drop into the water. And most of the deployment, we call free fall.

Shelby:

So you just literally drop it and let it sink.

Ginny:

Yeah.

Shelby:

And then wherever it lands is where it lands.

Ginny:

Yes. So you go to the area that you want to put the seismometer down, and it will fall by itself by gravity. And then we do a circle circling around that seismometer. So it send acoustic signals, and the seismometer will talk back. Send back the signal, and if you go around it, then you will be able to locate the seismometers.

Ginny:

So it may not land exactly on the left hand that you expect, but it will be close.

Shelby:

Pretty close.

Ginny:

Yes.

Shelby:

So are all of these seismometers, as they're collecting data, sort of transmitting that through satellites? Or how do you get data from them once they're deployed either on land or below the ocean?

Ginny:

You have to go there again and recover it.

Shelby:

You have to recover it? Wow. So how do you recover these seismometers that are on the ocean bottom?

Ginny:

So that's a trick part of this process. So you need the seismometer to float off itself, but that is like where it has to lose some weight. So the process is during the deployment, the seismometer is is attached to a metal plate, and it's it's connected with the seismometer on top through a acoustic release structure. And during the deployment, we will also send acoustic signals to the seismometer just like talked with. Well, now you need to release the metal plate below.

Ginny:

And I think it will trigger a melt of the connections. So, like So things will melt, and then the will be disconnected from the metal plate down below. And just the pressure housing for the seismometer itself, it has a density lower than water. So in that way, this whole instrument just flow through the And water you have I I have never been on a recovery cruise. I've been on two deployment cruise.

Ginny:

So I don't know the exact process, but I I think as you you wait for ten, twenty minutes for it to flow up depending on the water depth. And on the seismometer, there's a a beacon. It also has this orange color that is easier to spot in the ocean, so people will watch watch out on the on the on the ship. And then if you find it, you just drive the ship close to to the instrument, and there is, like, hooks that you can catch it.

Shelby:

It up with.

Ginny:

Yes. And then bring it up to the boat.

Shelby:

Wow. So you mentioned you've been on deployment cruises, which I also wanna come back to. And so you might not know the answer to this since you haven't been on some of these recovery cruises. Do you know generally what the success rate of recovery is? Like, do you all frequently lose some of these seismometers during this process?

Ginny:

Yes. Sometimes you lose a seismometer will happen. And I think for the last one I was on, we deployed 20, and we lose one.

Shelby:

That's a pretty good odds.

Ginny:

I think that's pretty good. And among the 19 instruments, all the data come back pretty good. So I'm very happy.

Shelby:

These are deployed into the ocean bottom, how long do they stay there before they are sort of releasing this metal plate to rise back to the surface?

Ginny:

So that depends on the life of the battery. And for the instrument that is housed by the OSIC, the Ultramoleum Seismic Instrument Center, they can last for a year. So there's a good amount of time for us to study whatever earthquake process or structures underneath the ocean.

Shelby:

Yeah. So you have been on two of these deployment cruises, and one of them was last year, right?

Ginny:

Yes.

Shelby:

So when you go on these cruises, can you talk us through sort of that process? So how long are they typically, and where are some of the places you've been on the cruises?

Ginny:

Yeah. So the length will depend on how remote that area is. So it would take longer time to just, like, get there. And also depends on the type of research, how long you need to work on your on your site. And for the last cruise I was on, it was in the equatorial area of the Atlantic Ocean.

Ginny:

We are studying a transformed fault called chain. So it has some interesting structures within the fault zone that we want to understand. And to get there, we are actually bored on a ship from Cape Verde, which is North Of The Equator. It's an island offshore, West Coast Of Africa, and it took us five to seven days just to transit, like, to to Towards that the other side. Yes.

Ginny:

And the whole cruise lasts about thirty days. So you minus the round trip, that's ten days. So we have about, like, twenty days on our study site. Yeah.

Shelby:

And and I'm assuming, especially on this cruise you're describing now, you're in a pretty remote area. So for the majority of those thirty days, all you see is water. Yeah. How is that? What's that like?

Shelby:

Is that strange after a while?

Ginny:

I I think I got used to it. I will agree with what chief scientist of my last cruise said. He thinks going on a cruise is a very meditative process.

Shelby:

Yeah, think it would have

Ginny:

to be. Yes. So you're disconnected with the usual settings you're with during the cruise, and the ship will go twenty four hours. So the study, the rest of the day stop, and we have to be on shift. And it is either, like, three eight hours shifts or two twelve hour shifts.

Ginny:

Last time, we were on these, like, two twelve hour shifts. And well, we just focus on the work that's assigned to you during the cruise, and then after the shift, go back to sleep.

Shelby:

Were you on day shift or night shift?

Ginny:

I I was on night shift.

Shelby:

Oh. Yeah. How did that take a while to get used to?

Ginny:

No. I think it was fine. Okay. Yeah. I would be on night shifts during multiple courses, and it was fine.

Shelby:

And when you think of both of the cruises you've been on, have there been any sort of highlights or lowlights to them? I I want to talk about

Ginny:

some of the cruise. The deployment was so cool. And one of them is was a cruise when I was a grad student. I would try to deploy some instruments in the borehole. So there was abundant industry borehole, I guess, on the subduction zone offshore Vancouver.

Ginny:

We want to deploy a small not a such amount or an instrument that can measure the deformation of the subduction zone. And so you think, like, the the water depth, I forget exactly water depth, but it can be of one to two kilometer depth, And you want to deploy the instrument in a bar shape, and it has to be inserted in the borehole.

Shelby:

And is this also a free drop?

Ginny:

No. So that's the same. The odds of that would be super low. So it can be a free drop insert it into a borehole. And so we lowered the bar with the instrument in it pretty close to the seafloor, and then you have to have a robot, like the underwater remote control robot sitting on the seafloor to help you put the instrument in into the borehole.

Ginny:

And so the thing is you want to control the speed how this instrument drop into the borehole. And what the I was very surprised by the engineering design. They literally put two or three balloons on the on the instruments. And so the the robot, it has these mechanical hands that can grab the the bar of the instrument, so to place it right on top of the bar hole. And then it also has, like, a scissors.

Ginny:

Yeah. So you have these balloons attached to the instrument, and it will first cut one and to make the like this dropping rate Drop

Shelby:

a little bit.

Ginny:

Drop a little bit faster, and then cut the second one. And when they get very close to the bottom, I guess, you cut the last one, then it just drop itself

Shelby:

That's so into Yeah. That would be sort of a highlight to be able to see that. That's such an interesting Yeah. Design, and the fact that we can do that at all is is really impressive.

Ginny:

Yeah. So I I think that was a really exciting cruise for for me. I always have to do that.

Shelby:

Have there been any parts of the cruises that are sort of lowlights? Other people that I know who have gone on cruises oftentimes will talk about the food. Like, by the end of the cruise, the food offerings are sort of limited because you've gone through a lot of the food at that point.

Ginny:

I you know, the the cruises I I was on, the food was fine for me. And related to food, I've also been on a Chinese cruise before I came to The US. I think on a Chinese ship, there is a late night snack. So they will cook some, like, a street food type of food, like a bowl of noodles that you can eat at 11PM. It doesn't sound very healthy, but, like, people laugh.

Ginny:

Yeah.

Shelby:

I mean, when you're on a twelve hour shift, I feel like health goes out the window at that point. You're just trying to do what you can to make the most of it.

Ginny:

And, you know, maybe, like, the the unpredicted part of cruise, like, the the traveling is unpredictable. And just for the last cruise, the the chain cruise to the Atlantic Ocean that I mentioned, the the return on our way of return, there is a the the sand blow from the Sahara. Yeah. So it it was, like, very dusty for just a few three to four days during our like, when we returned. And all the flights were canceled.

Ginny:

So the Cape we we returned back to Cape Verde. Cape Verde has a few smaller islands, and most of the flights just fly back to Portugal. And we have these like, we have to fly from Cape Verde to Portugal, Portugal to Boston, and it's on a separate flight from Boston back to Indianapolis for for me and my students on that cruise. And because of the cancellation of the flight, it makes the travel very complicated. And we we like to, like, keep telephone the travel agents what we can do, what kind of changes we can make.

Ginny:

And in the end, I think we fly. We bought on a plane, fly to the capital, the the bigger island, the better capital is, to fly to that island, which was less affected by the by the dust Yeah. To blow from the Sahara. And we were able to get on the plane on time so that we can catch the exact plane that is planned to fly from Portugal back to Boston. So the rest of the flight is all connected.

Ginny:

Was fine.

Shelby:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I'd say, especially at the end of a trip like that, for me, I'm always just ready to be home. And so when travel delays happen, it's a little more frustrating.

Ginny:

Yeah.

Shelby:

Yeah. I could see how that would be.

Ginny:

And, also, the cruise was at the end of the year, so it's also combined with traveling during Christmas season. Yeah.

Shelby:

So very busy. Yeah. So, Jenny, how did you sort of get into this field? When did you know that this was something that you might wanna pursue?

Ginny:

Well, it's actually not that straightforward, I do think. I I feel I don't have a very strong mind of what I want to do during high school, but I I think I want to go to a good university. So I just, like, study hard as hard as you can get to a university. I was interested in field directions. Like, during that time, like, in China, we launched the first spaceship.

Ginny:

So I was interested in, like, aero astral. I was interested in math, and I have this, like, interest in in this earth science as well. It's sort of, like, where what what you could get. I did end up going to a engineering school, so no aero astro. And I I wasn't admitted to the math department, so I end up in this our department is called earth and space sciences.

Ginny:

And even at the first year, I was thinking about space science. But, like, after a year of study, I feel it's it's very theoretical, and this space science is not aeroelastic. It's like, the research that the space science major did is I I think everything between the sun and the Earth. So the ionosphere, magnetosphere. I I feel like, no.

Ginny:

That's not very interested, and I then I chose geophysics. I I think it's a combination of physics, math, computation, and also the study of the earth.

Shelby:

Yeah. So a lot of the things that you were sort of interested in Yeah. But now collectively applied.

Ginny:

Yes.

Shelby:

And once you sort of settled on that route, did you know from the moment you made that decision that you wanted to do this sort of observational geophysics work, or did that take a while to sort out?

Ginny:

I think it'd take a while to sort out. My department like, the geophysics department, in my year, we have about, like, 19 students. And I I can tell you that right now, maybe only half of the students are still in this geophysics field, and the others, they are all changing their career to computer science or finance. They they find pretty good jobs, but it's not it takes away a time for you to figure out what you want to do Yeah. For a career.

Ginny:

And in my department, there is a strong culture on earthquake science. So we are not a strong department training students who work in the oil field. We have one faculty working on oil exploration related to static, but most, like, half of the faculties are on natural earth structure or earthquake physics, earthquake science. And I I think I was just influenced by this, and I decided to conduct a research on earthquake. But I also did try to explore what industry type of jobs look like.

Ginny:

And so, like, spring is the hiring season, and the company will come to the university. They rent a, like, hall, a room, and give presentations to impress the students. And I I've been to those, like, international oil service company, their their presentation, and they will say, oh, if you join us, you will work with colleague from all over the world. The data collected in the Midwest will be processed here in a data center in Beijing. It will then be interpreted somewhere, and then some other people will make a decision whether we want to drill a hole or not.

Ginny:

So it gives you an impression that you are in this, like, multimillion dollar decision making process. It sounds really cool. But I get a chance to work in one of the OSO where it's commonly just for the new students who help them with picking the PE arrivals. So I I I just want to when they work for a couple of days. But I feel like the working environment, like, for the employee there, you go to your desk, you open your computer, there were assignments for you, then you finish the job submitting it, and then you're done.

Ginny:

There you go. Go back home. I I feel like it's it's a little naive to think that you are really making this mighty million dollar decisions. You're just, like, very small part of it. You may not see what how the data comes from, where it goes.

Ginny:

Like, only the very central person somewhere globally will make that decision. So I feel, clearly, I want to have a little more control of what I want to do. And I did try to understand what the industry looks like, but I I think after all that, I decided to to stay in this, like, research, academia, or the research institution that I I want to work in.

Shelby:

Yeah. I think that makes a good point for some of these other types of jobs is that that sometimes you can play a very small role, and that might be something people are interested in and it might not be. But, yeah, it's it sort of can vary depending on the field and what your personal goals are too.

Ginny:

Yeah. I think it's really it's your personal preference. I I I don't want to sound like that's not a good job, but I I I think right now, like, we may appreciate that kind of job. Like, once your job is done, it's not related Yeah. To your personal life anymore.

Shelby:

Yeah. Sometimes that would be sort of nice. Yeah. So, Ginny, we always end each episode with our yes, please segment where both the guest and myself take a minute to talk about something that we're excited by in the moment. And so I always give folks option.

Shelby:

If you wanna go first, then I'll time you, but I'm happy to go first too.

Ginny:

I could go first. Okay.

Shelby:

Let me get my timer up. So this will be Jenny Gong's yes, please segment. Take it away.

Ginny:

Yeah. So in I I teach the earthquake and volcano classes this semester. And the the final project that I usually ask the student to do is to reconstruct the explosive explosion history of the Mount Vesuvius, so we have some material that can help them to do that. But after two years of teaching, I feel like I don't understand Pompeii and Mount Vesuvius that well. So recently, I have been reading books and watching some wildlife materials on So the first thing I did

Shelby:

is seconds.

Ginny:

I I went to the Wells Library and was so surprised that there are two shelves of books just on Pompeii. And it's just a shock for me that I typically 15? Understand the Pompeii from this natural hydrologist perspective, but I didn't realize it has such a cultural impact for the whole Western culture. Perfect

Shelby:

on the timing there. Yeah. So Pompeii had mentioned this to you a little earlier. I got the chance to visit there whenever I was in high school. I was part of this program that would lead basically field trips to other countries and they would subsidize the costs and so you could go very affordably as a student.

Shelby:

I had never been out of the country before that and one of the trips we went on was to Italy and so during that trip, they took us to Pompeii. And this was before I ever was interested in geology. And so I definitely wanna go back now that I can have a different appreciation of the eruptive processes and things. But there's such a history there because the city was effectively preserved through this very rapid burial. Yeah.

Shelby:

And they've excavated a lot of it out. And so it's really it's sort of surreal to see. It's very impressive. But also, yeah, almost shocking in a way because there are the burial was so quick. There's also lots of preserved bodies that were trapped in this and stories that are associated with them.

Shelby:

So, yeah, if you ever get the opportunity, you should definitely go and see it. Alright, Ginny. If you don't care to time me

Ginny:

I will time you.

Shelby:

This will be my yes, please segment.

Ginny:

Okay.

Shelby:

So, yes, please. I think we should all, if we get the chance, try to watch Sunday morning, which is a news program that shockingly comes on Sunday mornings. And I really enjoy Sunday mornings. I've watched it for years now whenever I I have the time to because it's really sort of a positive take on the news. I feel like especially now the news cycles are so sort of sad and depressing and heavy.

Shelby:

And Sunday morning tries to intentionally highlight good things that have been happening over the past week. And so it's a lot of fun to see the things that that they highlight, and it it sort of leaves you feeling happy and positive. And one of my favorite segments that they do every week is the last five minutes or so. They have a moment in nature where they just have a a video and audio from this really beautiful natural side, and sometimes it's places that I'm familiar with, and sometimes it's places I've never been before. But it's really calm and relaxing and a a really nice program.

Shelby:

So if you get the chance, give it a watch. Great. And I think you are a fan of Sunday Morning too. Right?

Ginny:

I love to watch Sunday Morning. The host

Shelby:

Jane Pauley.

Ginny:

Jane Pauley is the IU alumnus.

Shelby:

Yeah. She's an alum of IU, which is also a sort of a nice nod to the program.

Ginny:

And I didn't really watch it every week, but it was surprising. The few times that I watched, it was actually related to stories back to Indiana. I think she might frequently come back to film stories, and the the material that she filmed here is very related to education. And the first story I saw was there was a high school student from, I think, Indianapolis. They won the prize by telling a story of his grandfather during World War II.

Ginny:

I think it just brings up connections.

Shelby:

Yeah. Yeah. And it's a great program. Occasionally, they'll also have geology related segments because I sometimes have used them in my classes. I'll show them.

Shelby:

So they did one a few years ago that was on lab grown diamonds. And so whenever I talk about economic resources of earth materials and diamonds comes up, that's usually one that I'll show. So it's a really great program. So check it out if you get the opportunity. Jenny, thanks for coming on.

Shelby:

This has been a lot of fun. I appreciate you coming on as a great guest.

Ginny:

Thank you for inviting me. It was a very interesting experience for me as well.

Shelby:

And for listeners, come back next week when we'll have the next guest on season two of Earth on the Rocks. We'll see you then. Earth on the Rocks is produced by Cari Metz with artwork provided by Connor Leimgruber with technical recording managed by Kate Crum and Betsy Leija. Funding for this podcast was provided by the National Science Foundation grant EAR dash 2422824.