Exploring Aging

Join Dr. Bill Pierce and Greg McNeece, pioneers and innovators in aging services, along with host, Ray Sanders, as they discuss the Age Wave and Ageism...what are they and how do these issues impact society and our culture?  

Show Notes

Join Dr. Bill Pierce and Greg McNeece, pioneers and innovators in aging services, along with host, Ray Sanders, as they discuss the Age Wave and Ageism...what are they and how do these issues impact society and our culture?

 

What is Exploring Aging?

Exploring Aging

Ray:

Did you know that 10,000 people turn 65 years old each and every day? By 2060, nearly 25% of Americans will be 65 years or older. And in less than 2 decades, older adults are projected to outnumber kids 18 years younger for the first time in US history. How about this? Have you heard of the coming silver tsunami?

Ray:

Or how about the age wave? Our society other related topics on this episode of the Exploring Aging Podcast. Welcome to this edition of the Exploring Aging podcast. I'm your host, Ray Sanders, and I'm joined by my cohost, doctor Bill Pierce and Greg McNeese. Gentlemen, you are subject matter experts when it comes to aging.

Ray:

I'm looking forward to getting your input on the so called silver tsunami and how aging is impacting our society. Fill us in on this current phenomenon. You know, I kind of opened the show talking about some statistics that are really mapping out how things are changing, in America and throughout Oklahoma and in our world. And if anybody can fill us in, I think it would be you 2 guys. So welcome to this first edition and I look forward to what you have to share.

Ray:

Catch us up on some of the things that you guys have observed from the seats that you sit in.

Greg:

Sure. Ray, thank you so much for the invitation to be here. Sure. I love what you said about, you know, there are things going on in our culture today, in our world today that we are breaking ground on. But I want to back up.

Greg:

There's something you said that this age wave that's coming and there's going to be a day in 2,060 by national demographics that on that respective year, we're going to have more people above the age 65 than under the age of 18. In Oklahoma, that's going to happen in 2030. 2030. We're talking 6 and a half years. Oh my goodness.

Greg:

That that number, that tilt is going to happen. And so we've got an age wave ongoing even right now.

Ray:

My goodness. An age wave. The visual I see is this I guess that's why they call it a silver tsunami, but it's kind of coming fast and high And it's like we're in in Hawaii, we're gonna catch a wave. But 2030, man, that's gonna be here quick. Yes.

Ray:

Bill, what what are your thoughts on this? Well, it's

Bill:

all about change, right? We gotta be open to change. And our society's changing. Every part of our lives are changing. We're really pioneers in this rapidly changing field of aging and aging services, and it's happening to everybody.

Ray:

So how did how has it snuck up on us? I mean, you know, we've lived through so much with health care, and we've heard about baby boomers, gen x, gen z. You would think that we would be a little more alert. We we know what it means to be a baby boomer, but it's like the baby boomers are really starting to show up big time at this stage in in in life. What why why are we not more aware?

Ray:

Why are we as a society not more in tune with what's happening?

Bill:

Well, we haven't prepared very well. Our when I say we, I don't mean we as individuals. I mean our society hasn't prepared very well. We've known it was coming. We've put it off and the challenges are getting greater and greater and it's time to think about it.

Ray:

So challenges. What what kind of challenges are we talking about? What kind of what kind of problems are we talking about? What's what kind of strain is this gonna put on us? Is it gonna put strain on me?

Ray:

You know, I'm I'm 60 years old. I have a mother that's aging. I have a father who's been in, in a nursing home home and has passed away. It's put strain on me. What what kind of care are they gonna get?

Ray:

But, you know, I'm 60. Am I going to age in, in place? Am I gonna age in a facility? I mean, it starts to concern me. Who's it putting pressure on?

Ray:

Who's gonna pay for all this? All kinds of questions that are coming to my mind, guys, and I'm looking to you guys for answers.

Greg:

Are the questions that we everybody has. Ray, you're not on an island. Those questions, the the life experience that people are walking through, those are the issues people are being faced with. Years ago, when we talked about the sandwich generation, just what you're talking about, where you as a adult son have got aging parents, you've got children and grandchildren. Years ago, that sandwich generation was a smaller kind of a little focus of time.

Greg:

Now we talk about sandwich generation, and it's people who are in their sixties seventies who are still have got living parents

Ray:

Yes.

Greg:

And they've got children, adult children, grandchildren, maybe even great grandchildren. And the question is, what do we do with all this? How do we work through this? How do we work through living situations, health, finances? All those things are questions that we've got to look at.

Ray:

So Bill, what are some stories? Who are some people that we can relate to this situation? I know that you have to have countless numbers of different variations of how this gets applied, whether it be someone like myself, maybe it's an individual, maybe it's a woman, maybe it's a man. How does this how does this play out in the real world? People that are listening.

Ray:

There's be there's gonna be those that are listening that go, I'm getting up there in age. I don't know if I wanna put this burden on my kids. What am I going to do? Am I prepared? Have I saved enough?

Ray:

And if I haven't, am I am I gonna be on the street? Now I'm a child. I'm looking at my parents. I mean, give us some examples of how people are dealing with this. Know, taxes are stressful enough.

Ray:

We have elections. They're stressful enough. We've got world wars on the brink of busting loose. And now we're not sure how we're gonna if we're gonna be able to land the the aging plane without a crash landing. How do you how do you get people hope, Bill?

Ray:

What are the stories that you're seeing out there and how are people dealing with this?

Bill:

You know, Ray, the reality is we try to delay aging as long as we can. Even though we're thinking about it a little bit, we're we're trying to delay it. And so we don't think about, we don't plan for those transitions that can take place in our lives. Those changing health needs that can take place in our lives. And so when they happen, they happen fast and we don't have any idea what to do about it.

Bill:

So we try to call somebody who we think may know. And, Ray, I get calls from friends of mine all the time. And the question is, what do I do if I need this? My dad or my mom needs this. What do I do?

Bill:

They don't know who pays for it. They don't know what Medicare pays for. They don't know what Medicaid pays for. They haven't thought about those things, and we all need to think about those things.

Ray:

So let me just pause you right there. This has been a discussion. This is a real life discussion that I've had with my mother, and I'm just going to be honest with you. I'm going to be transparent. I'm going to be real.

Ray:

I'm talking to my mother and she's talking to me about Medicare and Medicaid. I'm like a deer in headlights.

Greg:

Sure.

Ray:

I'm like, what? I mean, so let's just I mean, it's a learning teaching moment. Tell us guys, what is that? What is the difference? Did I pay for that?

Ray:

Did I have to pay in a Social Security to get it? Is it a gimme? How much can I expect? What what is the difference in Medicare and Medicaid?

Bill:

Yeah. Well, Medicare pays for, things that are short term. And so if you have surgery and you have to go to long term care, then it will pay for a certain number of days, and then it doesn't pay at all.

Ray:

Mhmm.

Bill:

So you have to have long term care insurance or you're using your own dollars, your own assets.

Ray:

And if you don't have those?

Bill:

Then you have then you might be able to qualify for Medicaid.

Ray:

Mhmm.

Bill:

A lot there's a lot of people in our state that qualify for Medicaid. But that's for people who have, don't have the resources to provide for the needs that they need to take care for.

Ray:

Would that be considered welfare?

Bill:

I don't call it welfare. I call it I call it, Medicaid in that our state government. All of us collectively in society help those who don't have who have insufficient resources to take care of their needs in long term care.

Ray:

So, you know, it's one thing to say we don't know or we should have known, but why don't we? Why don't we know? Why have we been so illiterate, uneducated? I'm going to use a strong word, ignorant at this. We stick our head in the sands.

Ray:

Who's responsible? Who should have told us? Should we have thought about these things? It's in the realm of financial planning, and nobody really likes to deal with the numbers. But all of us, whether we're good with money or bad with money, we're all aging.

Ray:

And you would think we act like we're gonna live. I guess we are gonna live forever, Bill. That's one of the things one of the things I enjoyed having lunch with you the other day. I'll never forget this. You said, what's 90 when you're gonna live forever?

Bill:

Right.

Ray:

I mean, what's 90 when when you're going to live forever? But the truth is and then you also said, you know, you may be changing physically, but emotionally and mentally, you have a lot still to offer. And a lot of people, when they think about aging, it's kind of like they're ready to just throw in the towel. Oh, I'm just going to give it up. I'm gonna go pick out my favorite walker.

Ray:

I'm gonna buy my favorite and buy me some tennis balls to put on the bottom of it, and just kind of begin to plan on just kind of checking out. That's not how you think and I know that.

Greg:

That's the

Bill:

opposite of what you should think.

Ray:

That's right.

Greg:

So, Ray, I think what you were saying is, who dropped the ball? Yeah. Part of it, I think, if you look at other cultures, there are other cultures in the world who see aging in a very positive light. Where in our American culture, we see it, it's very negative. And and you can trace the well, we'll call the ageism, the negative slant on aging.

Greg:

You can trace that back to the industrialization period of our history. And where little by little, there's been this ageism negatively looking at getting older to the point to where we as a culture don't want to deal with it. We don't want to deal with getting older. We'll spend 1,000,000,000,000 and 1,000,000,000,000 of dollars a year in looking younger and being younger. And so our culture is wrapped up in this, oh, to be younger mentality when the reality is, is we all are getting older.

Greg:

And so, it's not that no one told us, it's really we chose not to listen. We chose not to honor and think about the days to come down the road.

Ray:

Now, when we were at lunch the other day, you used the word ageism. And I asked you, do you remember what I asked you? I said, did you make that up? I asked Bill that. I said, that's not a term that I've heard, ageism.

Ray:

Now I want to ask a clarifying question here. Is ageism negative or is that just how some people perceive it? I I unpack that for me.

Bill:

Yeah. It's not necessarily negative, but it's slanted that way. Greg and I talk about ageism all the time. In fact, he'll bring me things where he sees people being negative about older people.

Ray:

Mhmm.

Bill:

And we do it all the time. It's so embedded in our society and it needs to stop. Mhmm. And we need to be consciously aware as individuals if we're doing it. And if we are, we need to stop.

Bill:

It's in every television program. It's everywhere we go in society, people are negative about people who are older.

Ray:

So so let me see if I have this correctly. It's it's kind of the equivalent of racism, ageism. It's a prejudice against you based upon your age. Am I tracking?

Greg:

You're tracking. Exactly right.

Bill:

And the studies that are being done on this show that it negatively affects aging adults.

Ray:

Mhmm. In terms of their own mentality or how they see themselves?

Bill:

Exactly. Cause depression, how they see themselves, how society sees them, and it it affects them negatively in their daily actions.

Ray:

Okay. Well, you know, I told you guys that there may be topics that we touch on that might get a little prickly here, and I'm not asking you to tell me who you're gonna vote for. But when this when this podcast is being recorded, well, we're well within a year of another election. And there's a lot of people, regardless if you're looking at the current president or the former president, right, that are saying these guys are getting to the point of where, come on, it's time to finish your last lap. Where's the balance between my knowing my own capacity, my own capabilities, my own mental, physical facilities, and ageism?

Ray:

Where where do you draw the line between that? That's a tough one. I threw you I threw you a big one there. Who's gonna take that one?

Bill:

Well, we think that you ought to live your life all your life. And so if you start deciding that my life's over at 70, 75, 80, we think you're missing out on life. We think change is a good thing. We think as you change, your abilities change, you you perceive yours your ability to do things differently, that you ought to change right along that with that and have a great attitude about every part of your life.

Ray:

One of the things I've noticed Greg, I know you've got, younger kids. Most of my kids are in their twenties. They're almost 30 plus now. I never will forget, Bill. I was talking to my son about college and education and all that.

Ray:

And one of my boys said, well, why would I do that when I could go to Google? Somehow in America, we have lost the art of apprenticeship. We have lost the art of recognizing the wisdom and the experience that comes, as Proverbs would tell us, with gray hair. Now don't be looking at my head. I know what y'all are thinking.

Ray:

I've got gray hair in my beard, and you guys have got some gray. And and I don't think Greg has a bit of gray. But but here's the thing. Somehow, we've discounted that experience and wisdom, not always the case, but oftentimes the case that age brings to the table. You know, the wise old Al, the EF Huttons talking, let's listen.

Ray:

And for some reason, we've replaced the the gray with Google. You you see what I'm saying? Mhmm. And some and and one of the things you said I've heard you say before, Bill, is that as it's partly partly the blame for society. We just bought into it.

Ray:

And as followers of Jesus, people that that follow his he values all of life. 1 of my favorite bible characters is Caleb. And he and Joshua, you know, they've been carrying the baton and they're about to go into the promised land. And what's Caleb say? I'm 80 years old, man, and I feel like I'm 40.

Ray:

Give me my piece of property. Let's go. And and somehow, though, our our aging society, those that are a little older than some of us, have just kinda tossed in the towel. That really bothers you, doesn't it?

Bill:

Oh, it really bothers me. And and isn't that a great story about Caleb in the Bible? Give me that mountain, and he's 80 years old. Mhmm. He's no different at 80 than he was at 40.

Bill:

Yeah. Alright. Our perceptions on aging in our society really drag us down. That's why that's why we use the words transforming life expectancies Yeah. Because we need to change our mind about where we're going as individuals when we age.

Ray:

Now, if you're listening out there, I want you to listen. I want you to hear what Bill just said. That's why these guys are passionate about what they do. That's why they're doing what they're doing. This these are topics and subject matters that they are addressing.

Ray:

I don't know anybody else that's talking about them in the way that they are. That's why we we decided to call this cast exploring, you know, aging. That's why, you know, transforming life expectations. That's why those terms are there. That's why you're picky about what we call things, you know, and when it comes down to the age wave or the silver tsunami or whatever.

Ray:

Those those words matter because words are defining our culture and those words are putting in our mind the expectations that we have about that stage in our life. Am I am I right?

Greg:

I think you're right. I would also say, Ray, when we look at this whole aging thing, really and truly, if you take it into the local church, we have bought into cultural ideology in our local churches.

Ray:

So true.

Greg:

So our church staff members many times, whether they think about it as I'm I'm doing I'm I'm I'm playing into ageism. Mhmm. They're doing it just because it's a part. It's so second nature to us. Mhmm.

Greg:

And so when we see that even encroaching in the life of the church, we're not immune to it. It happens in our churches. So when we get people who are in their eighties nineties in the church, they hear ageism in the culture, they see it and hear it in their church, and so no wonder they take a back seat. No wonder they go, I'm done. I'm does that make sense?

Ray:

Oh, it makes me wonder how much we're missing out on. Totally. What stories, what could have been done if given the opportunity? Why why are we buying into that? Who's drinking that Kool Aid?

Ray:

Exactly. We don't have to drink that Kool Aid. Right. And that's what you guys are all about.

Greg:

That's right.

Bill:

Yeah. We actually lower our expectations of older adults. And what we really should be doing is raising our expectations.

Ray:

You gave a you gave a story, a couple, of a man and a woman separately. 1 is still doing a Sunday school or bible study. He's never me not remember. You remember who I'm talking about? You said there's a there's a gentleman that continues to do a Sunday school class or and he's in his, I don't know, eighties or something.

Bill:

Yeah. He's in his eighties. I know who you're talking about.

Ray:

Tell tell that story.

Bill:

He was saved as a young adult Mhmm. And became involved as an outreach leader in his church, in his Sunday school class. And he was good at it, and they taught him how to share Christ, and he has done that all his life. Well, if you circle back around to him in his eighties, he's doing the exact same thing that he was doing as a young adult in the church, which is leading out and outreach in his Sunday school class and witnessing to people. So he hadn't changed.

Bill:

And that's powerful. Yeah. It's a great example.

Greg:

And that class is growing. I mean, even in their eighties, when you would think, oh, well, what a 80 year old people, how does that class grow? They're really just, you know, no, it is growing. It is growing week by week. People are there.

Ray:

Now we know what we're going to talk about this at some point. We know what the institute's goal is, but but this makes the point. If you're a minister out there, you're involved in a local church, you're a leader in your local church, don't discount your seniors. Exactly. They've got a lot to offer.

Ray:

The other side of that coin is, if you're I said senior. I know that that's not that that that's not the term. If you're aging, if you're aging out there and you feel like, you know, I just think I'm done. Wait a minute. Did you just hear this story?

Ray:

You got a lot still in the tank. You have a lot to offer. People need you. We need you in the game. We need your wisdom.

Ray:

We need your stories. We need your input. We we want your input and and your life experience. We want to draw from that. Don't don't check out.

Ray:

Don't, don't walk away. It's too soon. Be a Caleb. Right? Right.

Bill:

That's right. I like to say, Ray, that spiritual gifts are for all of life. Mhmm. When we become a Christian, we're gifted by the Holy Spirit with spiritual gifts, and we use them in the church all of our life, not part of our life.

Ray:

Excellent.

Greg:

And they don't time out. There's nothing about a spiritual gift that goes, oh, it's only good for a certain length of time. Or you it declines over time. And that's there's nothing biblical about that. And so a spiritual gift that God gives to us at the point of salvation gifted by God to do something with what he's given you.

Greg:

So use it. Use those gifts. Exercise those gifts.

Ray:

Well, I want to put you guys on the spot. We're we're close to wrapping up on this episode and and I think you guys are a gift to a lot of people and I think you guys are gifted, but I'm going to put you on the spot. Why should anybody that's listening want to consider you a subject matter expert? And I'm going to ask you it's not bragging if it's true. Right?

Ray:

But just tell us briefly about a little bit about your backgrounds, and that's that's how we'll end this episode. It's just a little bit about you guys, and then we'll we'll talk about more in our next episode. But just give us a little bit about the 2 of you guys and why you're doing what you're doing.

Bill:

You know, we've known each other a long time, a lot longer than people realize. And we when we met each other, we were young guys, and we were we were both involved in aging services at that time. And I've been doing this for 33 years. And I do it because God called me into it. I think we're pioneers in a rapidly changing world.

Bill:

I think we have a message. I think people need to rethink about everything that's going on with aging, and we need to change our minds about some of the things that we're doing. We need to stop letting the world influence us. We need to get an attitude that propels us into the future regardless of our age. What I love is people in their nineties and even over a 100 that are vibrant and looking forward and serving.

Ray:

So I'm gonna coin a phrase, pioneering peers. Uh-uh. There you go. That's good. That's good.

Ray:

Pioneering Pierce. But basically, what you're saying is that you've been in this industry for 33 years. You've made some observations. You're doctor Bill Pierce for a reason, but you've stuck you haven't changed jobs. You've you've stayed in this lane, and you're passionate about this.

Ray:

Susan's passionate about this. You guys see your legacy tied up in how you can make a difference among the aging. And let's face it, that includes all of us. All right, Greg. What were we

Greg:

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm 54. Mhmm. And I like to say I have been doing senior adult ministry for about 50 years.

Greg:

Okay. And you think, I'm like, just do this simple math, have that happen. So because of divorce in my nuclear family, my grandparents, I lived with them a lot. They provided stability as a very, very young child. My grandparents were unbelievable faithful layman and and laywoman in their church.

Greg:

Deacon, my grandmother was a church clerk forever. And so I was doing ministry that my grandfather, the deacon, would do. I'd go along and Interesting. Do things with him. And so I began to see, as a young child, a model of serving older adults.

Greg:

And so go along, go along, I had no idea that God would ultimately call me to ministry, to do ministry with older adults. So I went to Baylor University, have a master's degree in gerontology and went really from the what was then the Sunday school board, when I or when I finished with Baylor, went to the Sunday school board to be the senior adult specialist for the Southern Baptist Convention. So at the ripe age of 24, I had the responsibility of leading the helm of what we, at Southern Baptist, are doing in the field of aging. And that's where I met doctor Pierce. And so when he say we've known each other for a long time, it's been 30 years that we've known one another and been doing work together.

Greg:

And so I feel called, how do we impact the kingdom by helping older adults? In the local church. Some of them do it just in what they feel called to do. They have a heart and a passion, but they need some resources. They need guidance.

Greg:

They need some understanding. They need updating, from time to time when things happen. So that's really where I feel, how can we impact the lostness of

Ray:

a culture through the local church

Greg:

and using older adults to do that? And so, child, but then as a young adult, when God said, to not only as a child, but then as a young adult when God said, This is where I want you to serve me and this is how I want you to serve me. And so that's where I've been.

Ray:

That's a very interesting thread. I mean, it's kind of like the the verse that talks about raise up a child in the way you should go. But I also would parlay that with Romans 828, you know, all things. God took something in a in a marriage and turned it into something good and put you in a position and it shaped who you were as a little boy and put you where you are today. You know, I think a lot of us have a heart like that, but we just don't know what to do.

Ray:

We don't know what we don't know. We don't know what we are capable of. We don't know what to expect. And honestly, that's why exploring aging is going to unpack all this stuff. You know, today, we've learned a lot already.

Ray:

It is just the tip of the iceberg, and we'll unpack even more on this topic on our next edition of the Exploring Aging podcast. Until then, stay active and stay informed as we explore the realities of aging on the Exploring Aging podcast.