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Conversations about Creating a Culture of Activity: Profiling the people, places, programs, and policies that help to promote a culture of activity within our communities.
Note: This transcript was exported from the video version of this episode, and it has not been copyedited
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:27:15
Mara Mintzer
So what we're looking at is a picture of a teenager who is, presenting her vision of her ideal downtown civic area. And when I referred to the civic area before, this was a project we did 11 years earlier on the other end of the civic area. So it's, you know, these things are very long term projects. So this was a photo from 11 years ago, and she's using different found objects to create her vision.
00:00:27:15 - 00:00:56:04
Mara Mintzer
And so they're very colorful. You've got different foam blocks. You have, silk flowers. You have, plastic animals and cellophane. And this concept is, actually developed by an urban designer out of California named James Rojas. And this is James's place, that activity, which we have used countless times in terms of eliciting from all ages. Their vision of what they want to build.
00:00:56:06 - 00:01:23:16
John Simmerman
Hey, everyone, welcome to the Active Towns Channel. My name is John Zimmerman and that is Maura Mincer. From growing up Boulder in Boulder, Colorado. And this is the first episode of season 11. Yay! The first episode of 2026. Thank you so much for tuning in. I really do appreciate it. Before we get into this episode, I just want to say, if you're enjoying this content here on the Active Towns Channel, please consider supporting my efforts by becoming an Active Towns Ambassador.
00:01:23:18 - 00:01:43:09
John Simmerman
Hey, super easy to do. If you're here on YouTube, just click on the join button right down below. You do get early access to all of my video content here on YouTube. You can also leave a YouTube super. Thanks right here. There's also a button down below where you can do that. Otherwise head on over to Active towns.org.
00:01:43:14 - 00:02:01:13
John Simmerman
Click on the support tab at the top of the page. And there's several different options, including becoming a Patreon supporter. Patrons do get early and ad free access once again to all my video content. Okay, let's get right to it with Maura.
00:02:01:15 - 00:02:07:04
John Simmerman
Maura, thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast. It's such a pleasure having you.
00:02:07:06 - 00:02:14:02
Mara Mintzer
Both so fun to be here with you, John. And you know, I've been seeing your work for so many years, and so it's beautiful to be able to connect.
00:02:14:04 - 00:02:37:21
John Simmerman
Yes. Likewise. Yes. This has been a long time coming. I of course, am a very dear friends with D'Arcy Kitching. And, you two have worked together in the past, and, you know, that's when I first heard of, growing up Boulder. And we're going to be talking about that initiative in just a little moment. But I think, and maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong.
00:02:37:21 - 00:02:44:18
John Simmerman
I think you might have actually been profiled. The program might have been profiled in Tim Gill's book. Is that correct?
00:02:44:21 - 00:02:49:24
Mara Mintzer
Yes, I was exactly. And I love his book. I actually refer to it frequently.
00:02:49:26 - 00:03:14:05
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And Tim Gill has been a past guest on the podcast a couple times over, and he was gracious enough to serve as a, well, he is an active towns ambassador. He, actually, allowed me to stay in his place. I was, able to, house at his place there in London and, keep the plants watered, during vacation.
00:03:14:07 - 00:03:26:16
John Simmerman
The last summer back in 2024. So that was a good time. What I love doing is having my guests, just take about 30s to introduce themselves. So I'm going to turn the floor over to you.
00:03:26:19 - 00:03:55:13
Mara Mintzer
Yeah. So I'm Maram and sir, and I am a co-founder and executive director of Growing Up Boulder, which is a nonprofit in Boulder, Colorado, centered around helping young people thrive through youth civic engagement. And my career has been dedicated to serving children and youth, and particularly centering the needs of underserved children and youth. And I've done that in, New York City and in California.
00:03:55:15 - 00:04:11:29
Mara Mintzer
And then a few stints, living abroad as well. So it's such a pleasure to be able to share what we're learning when we say Boulder is our learning laboratory, but we're also always thinking about what lessons have we learned that can be useful for other communities beyond where we live?
00:04:12:01 - 00:04:26:12
John Simmerman
Fantastic, fantastic. And I've got, your website pulled up here on the screen. And, why don't you take us back a little bit? What is your background? How did you get interested in engaged in all of this?
00:04:26:14 - 00:04:58:07
Mara Mintzer
Yeah. So I come from a family of people who have really dedicated their own lives to serving children and youth. Both my mother and father, worked in the field of child welfare. My grandmother was a preschool director during the WPA in the 1940s. And so really, this is just sort of in my blood, and I, you know, started my career in New York City creating some of the first universal pre-K programs that was just starting out then.
00:04:58:09 - 00:05:26:12
Mara Mintzer
And then when I went to graduate school for organizational psychology, I really wanted to help nonprofits become more functional, more efficient. But I ended up actually working in city government after that and supporting families in an under-resourced community in California. And we actually started what's called a community school, where we put all different support services for and by, families living in that community.
00:05:26:12 - 00:05:50:09
Mara Mintzer
So, for instance, the parents needed clothing at low cost. So they created a clothing closet that they ran that they could then use to, serve their peers. And so all of my work really has centered around this. How do we how do we and the background support so that families in our community can really lead as they have the skills to do?
00:05:50:12 - 00:06:18:03
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And I think inherent in this concept, and we're going to be talking a little bit more deeply about exactly what growing up Boulder is doing and means. But inherent to this is some of the themes that, Tim Gill and I were talking about with his book, Urban Playground when we had him on. And then I also talked about with, Lenore Skenazy, with the Let Grow program.
00:06:18:03 - 00:06:40:08
John Simmerman
And of course, she wrote the book. You know, really looking at free range kids in this concept is that we don't give kids enough credit for the fact that they can provide feedback to us adults, as well as they can probably get out and do more stuff on their own. Talk a little bit about that there.
00:06:40:10 - 00:07:07:07
Mara Mintzer
We so underestimate young people. You know, they don't have to have any specialized knowledge because their specialized knowledge is what it is like to be a young person today in this day and age and all the different things that they face and interact with. And really we, we often think to it can only be teenagers that we listen to, but we actually can observe the very young children and how they use a space.
00:07:07:07 - 00:07:32:20
Mara Mintzer
They don't even have to be verbal for us to get cues from them about what is working and what isn't working for them. And as well as actually asking their caregivers. So we really do engage children from very, very young all the way through 18. And just to make that a little more concrete, one of the things we did is we are working with the city of Boulder on their master plan for transportation.
00:07:32:22 - 00:08:02:12
Mara Mintzer
And so what we did was we strapped a GoPros on the heads of two and three year olds. And with their preschool teachers, they practiced crossing the street, using the sidewalks, trying to go to a favorite location. Well, the images we got from their view, at a very small height, and also just the observations of the teachers who were trained in a Reggio Emilia philosophy, which means they're really child centered and they're really writing down what the kids say.
00:08:02:18 - 00:08:09:20
Mara Mintzer
We were able to use that. And then that actually fed into the Vision Zero plan for our Transportation master plan in Boulder.
00:08:09:22 - 00:08:39:21
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And it's so interesting how all of these things intersect. Do you just you talked about there's transportation. We've got I just finished an interview, with last week, with somebody, you know, who's doing work on with parks and, and that connection to to children and parks. And then, of course, we were talking about, you know, Tim Gill and his, you know, work with Urban Playground with his book.
00:08:39:27 - 00:09:09:27
John Simmerman
And, you know, he's talking about fighting for family friendly places. And really and here, of course, is his book, Urban Playground, which you referenced earlier, is that we've sort of infantilized children so much to the point where it's as if, you know, they're not at all functioning and contributing to our society until they're 21 or something. You know, I'm exaggerating also.
00:09:10:04 - 00:09:35:03
Mara Mintzer
Yes, absolutely. And there's also this view that they're not capable of so much, and then they end up not being capable because we assume they're not capable. In fact, if we give them and as Lenore Skenazy talked about, and also Tim Gill, there is actually, if we allow them, more independent mobility, if we create these communities that they can get around on their own, that is what they want to do and develop mentally.
00:09:35:03 - 00:10:01:07
Mara Mintzer
That is what they will do. And so, I always think about this when my own child was little, I went to the library and I looked at these books and they were from the 1970s, and it was like your child at three, your child at four. And each year they describe them. Well, the book written and I think 1975, said your five year old should be able to walk four blocks to the corner store, buy milk and walk back on her own.
00:10:01:09 - 00:10:13:14
Mara Mintzer
And we're not allowing children to do that now. So how do we create communities that allow for that? And also how do we support parents, even the parents who want to do that, to allow their kids to do it?
00:10:13:16 - 00:10:38:27
John Simmerman
That is a really, really good point. And I'm going to pull up Lenore Skenazy, episode here as well. Of course she is famous, infamous for being, categorized as the world's worst mom or America's worst mom because she allowed her child to use public transit there in in New York, in Manhattan to get home. Something that the kid wanted to do had been preparing to do.
00:10:39:03 - 00:11:00:09
John Simmerman
And then afterwards, he felt this overwhelming sense of self-efficacy and, you know, and it's just like the growth of she just like was like, oh, yeah, he, you know, this is 20 years ago. But he's like, you know, he just blossomed as, you know, you know, a youngster. And that gave him so much self-confidence to moving forward.
00:11:00:09 - 00:11:24:23
John Simmerman
So we've really I use the word infantilized. We've really created situations where, we're not allowing children to, you know, walk to places. You know, it used to be that, you know, in the majority, if not, you know, not quite the majority of kids would get to school by walking and biking. We had more neighborhood schools. It was safer for them to be able to, to get to school.
00:11:25:00 - 00:11:50:22
John Simmerman
And now I think as, as recently as what, the 1960s or 70s, it was still somewhere around 40% of kids getting to school by walking or biking. And now it's, you know, like in the single digits or teens, in most schools, in most areas, we can't we all can't live in Boulder that has a network of off street network of pathways that connect many of the schools.
00:11:50:24 - 00:12:05:14
John Simmerman
But it's it's a real challenge when, you know, we we kind of, you know, keep children in a bubble and assume that they cannot do anything and they don't even have opinions.
00:12:05:16 - 00:12:36:17
Mara Mintzer
Absolutely. It's it's so problematic. And, you know, there's so much research on the benefit for the children of being together without adults constantly chaperoning. And then also on the adults feeling less stressed out if, if, you know, when I was visiting a friend in Rotterdam in the Netherlands, she was able to just stay at her house and we were able to have a nice cup of tea while her teenagers got everywhere they needed by biking and public transit.
00:12:36:19 - 00:12:57:07
Mara Mintzer
And the other thing I always think about is these things are possible. I think often because we don't see it as often around us, we think it's not possible. But when I was in Tokyo, I saw school children of eight and nine taking the subway or the metro by themselves all the time. No problem. And all the adults were there keeping an eye out for them as well.
00:12:57:09 - 00:13:19:15
John Simmerman
It's really, really interesting too, and I'm glad you brought up those two cities in particular, because of course, Tokyo is one of the largest cities that we have, major, major metropolitan city. But it is a culture that embraces the concept of, yeah, young children should be able to venture out and do things, and they are encouraged to do so now.
00:13:19:15 - 00:13:42:22
John Simmerman
They don't do so, out on their bigger streets that they have, because they do have boulevards and they do have, you know, car choked areas of the city. But they do have a network of very, very narrow, slow street, environments where many of the kids will children will will walk on to be able to get down to the corner store.
00:13:42:22 - 00:14:19:23
John Simmerman
And you mentioned using transit. They're taught how to use transit very early on. You you referenced Rotterdam. And that's a perfect city to reference because it was destroyed, in World War Two and built back up based on a North American car. First model. And so for the first few decades after World War two, they became the least Dutch city of all Dutch cities because they just had fast moving traffic everywhere, wide boulevards, modernist, you know, high rises everywhere.
00:14:19:25 - 00:14:45:23
John Simmerman
And after a few decades, they're like, why is this city so dead? And they realized what mistake they did. So the past 2 to 3 decades, they've been trying to fix what was damage. And it's just been amazing seeing that transformation of Rotterdam. And so I like to point to Rotterdam as a great active towns example of a place that was car centric and realized they made a mistake.
00:14:45:23 - 00:14:50:26
John Simmerman
And they're starting to reverse that trend. And to your point, we can fix this.
00:14:50:29 - 00:15:16:21
Mara Mintzer
Exactly. Yeah, that's and what I think sometimes we miss, is examples of what's possible. Right. We often get stuck in well I haven't seen that before or I can't imagine that. And so, there's a little mini documentary I love The Nature of Cities, which shows these beautiful pathways that show surprise around a corner. They're very green.
00:15:16:21 - 00:15:33:15
Mara Mintzer
They're in dense areas, but they integrate nature into it. They make it playful. And I think we need more short films that show these sorts of things of what's possible to inspire people and to build the future that we want, instead of just accepting how we are right now.
00:15:33:18 - 00:15:41:02
John Simmerman
Wow. That's fantastic. Now tell me more about that little documentary. Is that something that might be available out on YouTube?
00:15:41:04 - 00:16:10:17
Mara Mintzer
Yes, it's on YouTube. I mean, it's a little bit dated when you watch. It's very grainy. But it's it's really great. It's only 30 minutes long. The nature of cities. And for me, it really was inspiring and made me think about what do I want my community to be like? How do we create more pedestrian friendly places, remove cars, create more friction for cars, which I know, you know, I've also learned that's not popular around the world.
00:16:10:17 - 00:16:38:18
Mara Mintzer
I've been, participating in the webinars that Global Designing Cities initiative has been hosting, and they've been hosting. Yeah. They're great. A whole series of webinars all around active transit for children and youth. And, in that though, one of my takeaways is, oh, no matter where you are, there are going to be people who, get concerned about changing the way we do transportation.
00:16:38:21 - 00:16:48:16
Mara Mintzer
And so how do we, how do we still, you know, while we we it's important to include different people's voices, but how do we not let that stop progress?
00:16:48:18 - 00:17:13:11
John Simmerman
Yeah. Fantastic. Isn't that beautiful? I found I found that, documentary. So, folks, have no fear. I will, include the link to this, in the show notes, below for this. And, I do want to play a different video clip because I think it's, I think it would be fun to see how local news has actually covered your work.
00:17:13:14 - 00:17:37:20
John Simmerman
And, this is the I think it's the local ABC affiliate. Is that what it is? Yeah, it is, it's it's it's Denver seven, the local in Denver seven. The the local ABC affiliate. Let's let's turn the volume up on this and, it's not very long. It'll give our voices a little bit of a break and we'll build it.
00:17:37:23 - 00:17:39:26
John Simmerman
How long ago was this?
00:17:39:28 - 00:17:45:21
Mara Mintzer
This just happened in May of this year. So we're in December of 2025. So this is all very fresh.
00:17:45:23 - 00:17:47:16
John Simmerman
Very fresh okay. Let's play this.
00:17:47:19 - 00:17:55:20
Mara Mintzer
For 16 years. Boulder nonprofit growing up Boulder has been making an impact on young people and elevating their voices to local government.
00:17:55:20 - 00:17:56:18
John Simmerman
In fact, ideas.
00:17:56:18 - 00:18:02:16
New Clip Video Voices no. 1
From youth have been included in a few master plans from the city. But the nonprofit says there's a lot more work still to do.
00:18:02:18 - 00:18:10:02
Mara Mintzer
Denver Seven's Colin Riley met with the group to learn how they plan to get Boulder designated as a child friendly city.
00:18:10:05 - 00:18:15:10
New Clip Video Voices no. 2
We're really excited about all the work that we've participated in and the solutions that we've come up with.
00:18:15:10 - 00:18:18:29
New Clip Video Voices no. 1
When it comes to city planning. Why does it matter what kids have to say?
00:18:18:29 - 00:18:29:17
Mara Mintzer
Kids are actually current citizens, not just future citizens. They're experiencing the city. They're experiencing all of the programs and services we offer, and they have a right to help shape that.
00:18:29:17 - 00:18:46:13
New Clip Video Voices no. 1
Mara mintzer, co-founder of Growing Up Boulder, partnered with youth, parents and the city to create what's called the state of the Child report. This 75 page report is a situation analysis. It's feedback from the community, what's working in young people's lives and what needs to be improved.
00:18:46:15 - 00:18:50:21
New Clip Video Voices no. 2
City government, especially, is so much closer than people realize, especially to youth.
00:18:50:22 - 00:19:21:05
New Clip Video Voices no. 1
Boulder kids like Riley Horansky form the Child Friendly City Youth Council, a group dedicated to creating and implementing a youth action plan that aims to get Boulder designated as a child friendly city by Unicef. This global program helps cities prioritize the rights and well-being of children. The Youth Council presented their plan to City Council last week after compiling data and feedback from 1400 youth and adults, 17 city departments and 48 community organizations focusing on people who don't often have their voices heard.
00:19:21:06 - 00:19:27:25
Mara Mintzer
70% of the children, youth and families we heard from are from historically marginalized groups.
00:19:27:25 - 00:19:35:24
New Clip Video Voices no. 1
The study found three key areas of concern bullying, feeling safe and public, and having a youth voice heard in city decision making.
00:19:35:24 - 00:19:44:03
New Clip Video Voices no. 2
We decided on the third one, because we thought that that one could actually like, address more than having your voices heard.
00:19:44:03 - 00:19:48:22
New Clip Video Voices no. 1
It turns out the kids have plenty to say and plenty of ideas for bullying.
00:19:48:22 - 00:19:53:06
New Clip Video Voices no. 2
We came up with a new curriculum for bullying that would be implemented in schools. It's created by.
00:19:53:06 - 00:20:08:22
New Clip Video Voices no. 1
Students over the summer months. These kids and many others will refine their action plan and begin to implement their ideas into future city plans. When they're ready, they'll apply to Unicef to be designated a child friendly city. But even if they get that recognition for their work, it doesn't stop there.
00:20:08:22 - 00:20:16:14
Mara Mintzer
We're never done engaging our community and helping create our community in Boulder. There's still a need to always hear from young people.
00:20:16:15 - 00:20:18:11
New Clip Video Voices no. 1
Colin Riley for Denver seven.
00:20:18:13 - 00:20:28:27
John Simmerman
Love it, love it. This is fantastic. Was this one of the first times that you were the program was was profiled at this level on local news?
00:20:29:00 - 00:20:37:07
Mara Mintzer
We've actually been profiled a number of times on and off throughout the years. You know, we've been around for almost 17 years now, right?
00:20:37:07 - 00:20:37:28
John Simmerman
Yeah.
00:20:38:01 - 00:21:05:29
Mara Mintzer
Yes. We started at the University of Colorado Boulder in their architecture and planning department, and then we left to become a nonprofit about five years ago. So it's funny, we go in ebbs and flows. When I did a Ted talk in 2017, it was picked up. The Ted homepage. So then that also catapulted us into, the international scene, which was really exciting to be able to share what we're doing and to learn from others as well.
00:21:06:01 - 00:21:19:01
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And and we'll include that link, your Ted talk as well. It's, it's kind of rent running in the, in the background right now. How cool is that? That you got to do a Ted talk.
00:21:19:04 - 00:21:41:12
Mara Mintzer
It was on me saying it was such an experience, and people just asked me what I want to do when again. And I said it was such hard work. It was just, I would. I like if I was walking to breakfast, I would be rehearsing it. But it was so worth it because to be able to share our message with a broader audience, it just it's been great.
00:21:41:12 - 00:21:54:20
Mara Mintzer
And I've heard from cities around the world and, all the different continents that people have used this as a jumping off point for their communities to talk about being child friendly communities. So that's thrilling.
00:21:54:22 - 00:22:20:05
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And you've you've heard me give my, you know, sort of presentation before of the active towns culture, creating a culture of activity presentation. But that's an hour long presentation or 30 to 40 minutes. But that concept of being able to still distill that into a nice, tight, well, Hearst rehearsed package of a Ted talk. That is so freaking cool.
00:22:20:05 - 00:22:50:06
John Simmerman
So, yeah, kudos to you. Our mutual good friend, Darcy Kitchen has done something similar to that, and talked about her experience, but I want to, pop back over to your website and look a little bit more deeply into what the organization is doing and has it evolved over the 17 years? So walk us through the mission, the vision and the work that you're actually doing in Boulder and whether that has, you know, evolved over time.
00:22:50:09 - 00:23:15:29
Mara Mintzer
Absolutely. So our mission is to center young people's Rights Voices, an agency to advance equitable and sustainable communities for all. And our vision is to cultivate the vibrant communities where all young people thrive. And, you know, we really have evolved over time. So if you go back to the very beginning of growing up Boulder, what we were doing was and it was a group of people, it was myself.
00:23:15:29 - 00:23:35:06
Mara Mintzer
It was some professors, Bill and Van Vliet and Louise Chawla and the environmental design program, it and also architecture and planning, depending on what year you were talking about. And it was the local school district as well as the city of Boulder. And David Driscoll was then the head of city planning in the city of Boulder.
00:23:35:09 - 00:24:03:04
Mara Mintzer
And we came together and said, look, they had tried to do, child friendly cities in Denver, Colorado, with then Mayor Hickenlooper. And and I had never heard of child friendly cities. So I said, what is this thing? Well, what it is and what it was is there is a treaty, which is that United Nations Convention on the rights of the child that outlines human rights for anyone under the age of 18.
00:24:03:07 - 00:24:25:01
Mara Mintzer
And there are communities all over the world that operationalize that to make their cities more child friendly. But in the US, we hadn't adopted that model yet. At the at the national level, each Unicef office is, its own independent NGO. And so we said, well, we're going to do our best to create what that might look like in the United States.
00:24:25:04 - 00:24:51:19
Mara Mintzer
And some of those same people created a white paper on the structure in the US. And that's what growing up Boulder really was. So it's our grassroots attempt at making our city child friendly. Just as an addendum, in 2020, the city, the United States started doing child friendly cities through Unicef USA and growing a boulder, and the City of Boulder started doing it in 2023, officially.
00:24:51:21 - 00:25:16:29
Mara Mintzer
But in the meantime, and in all of that time period, what we were doing is pairing up different real city projects that were happening, like the redesign of a park or a transportation master plan, and then going out to different communities of youth, hearing from them, and then making sure that the adults in the youth were having a dialog and that the adults could use the input they heard from the youth.
00:25:17:02 - 00:25:51:06
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, that's fantastic. And we can see, you know, the some of the the work is outlined here on the website. And we've, we've got folks that you can click on these and learn more about this. One of the things that I wanted to ask you was to respond to some of the more recent trends you've been at this long enough, you know, 16, 17 years, as you've mentioned, you've been able to see a lot of change in the environment of what it means to grow up.
00:25:51:09 - 00:26:23:22
John Simmerman
We've referenced Lenore Skenazy a couple of times, and the Let Grow organization, that she, you know, formed along with Jonathan Hite. Jonathan, of course, is the, the author of the book Anxious Generation. And there's a big push to try to, do what we can to to break the addiction of screens, especially handheld devices with children, because of the what we're discovering is the potential negative impacts of of that screen time.
00:26:23:29 - 00:26:38:26
John Simmerman
Can you reflect a little bit about how you all, as an organization is and and you you're doing work in this area because that is something that really evolved and changed a lot over those 16, 17 years.
00:26:38:29 - 00:26:59:11
Mara Mintzer
Absolutely. And, you know, one of the things I've learned is we are doing and at the root of our work, it is similar throughout this whole time. It's really centering the needs of children and youth. But how we describe it in some of the details of it shift over time. So for example, Jonathan Heights book is it's perfect.
00:26:59:11 - 00:27:33:13
Mara Mintzer
Actually, we used it as, the basis of an intergenerational dialog we did between youth and adults around what their perceptions were around technology and the pros and the cons. But the other pieces, this nature everywhere concept has really taken off in some of the, places that I work. So the National League of Cities has partnered with, the Children and Nature Network to do this Nature Everywhere project of having nature filled cities for young people and 100 cities across the US.
00:27:33:13 - 00:27:59:09
Mara Mintzer
And, and they've achieved that. And Boulder is one of those cities now we are already doing this work. But it just it kind of when I see the opportunity arise and we align it and we use some of the same terminology, we have kids giving their input to everything around nature. You know, you could see it that that top one was about actually creating climate resilient schoolyards.
00:27:59:12 - 00:28:20:21
Mara Mintzer
We just worked on that this past fall. And the kids are actually going to start digging and planting some of their proposed interventions this spring. But yeah, we just have a whole host of ways that we're addressing, climate change and climate anxiety by having kids take action, because the research shows that taking action matters.
00:28:20:29 - 00:28:32:07
Mara Mintzer
But also, as Jonathan Haidt talks about, there's so many benefits, emotionally, socially, physically, intellectually for kids spending time in nature and, just.
00:28:32:10 - 00:28:55:10
John Simmerman
Yeah, in off screens. Yeah, exactly. And in and like now IRL in real life, being able to get out, it's not a virtual life. The irony, of course, is that I'm a YouTube content creator, but, it's like, yeah, I want to encourage you to stop watching and go out and experience life, you know, to to channel my good friend Ryan Van Duzer there in Boulder.
00:28:55:11 - 00:29:20:09
John Simmerman
You know, he's the get out there guy. He's like, okay, watch my videos, get inspired, then go out and do something. And so, yeah, this nature connection, of course, Richard Louv, you know, wrote the book, and really coined the term nature deficit disorder and talked about the, the fact that, you know, kids are, you know, are experiencing a life that doesn't have that richness of that nature connection.
00:29:20:12 - 00:29:48:21
John Simmerman
And, you know, Tim Gill and I had talked a little bit about, you know, this concept of reengaging kids in nature play and adventure play and not having these sterile environments of, of playgrounds that are all these plastic things. And, you know, it's overly programed and it's overly controlled, and we're worried about them, you know, maybe tripping and falling or, you know, or trying to balance on that log in the creek bed.
00:29:48:21 - 00:30:24:18
John Simmerman
And it's like we're not allowing kids to be kids and develop. This is key to developmental things is working on everything from balance to proprioceptive, you know, skills and all these other types of things. And so I was absolutely delighted to see that you had that nature connection there as well. And Boulder, what the perfect place, because you're surrounded by nature, the, the essence of how Boulder became Boulder is very much, a close connection to the outdoors and nature itself.
00:30:24:20 - 00:30:47:03
Mara Mintzer
Absolutely. And I just have so many. You got me excited. There's so many things to add here. So, there is a group of us who, we're from different city agencies, county agency. It's nonprofits, and we started, a group called kinship, where sometimes we just get together to talk about our vision for how to have every child have access to nature.
00:30:47:05 - 00:31:13:27
Mara Mintzer
And, and we think about that vision, and then we try and figure out how to actually do it because, sometimes our own organizations can get in the way because of red tape. Well, we really have achieved a lot of what we've set out to do. There are maybe ten different sites that we've been working on with our partners at the city this year to do exactly what you were just describing, to really create those nature filled spaces.
00:31:13:29 - 00:31:37:22
Mara Mintzer
And the results have been fantastic. And so just to give you an example, there's an area called the civic area in downtown Boulder where our farmers market is. And, there are a number of problems with the area right now. One is that, it is often used for unsocial behavior. So a lot of open air drug use, a lot of, sort of verbal harassment.
00:31:37:24 - 00:32:00:27
Mara Mintzer
And so one of the things that reintroducing nature play to that area has done was it's cut down by 50% on social behaviors. We have kids and families of all ages coming out to use it. And the other observation has been that the parents are not on their phones the way they have been. They are actually engaging with their children.
00:32:00:27 - 00:32:25:06
Mara Mintzer
They're talking to other parents while the kids do free play. And this playground or play space, was much, much cheaper to build. It was $14,000 of all recycled, repurposed trees from that boulder had cut down because they couldn't use them anymore. Versus a prefab playground. And it is getting rave reviews. And so we're doing that throughout the entire community all over.
00:32:25:06 - 00:32:27:13
Mara Mintzer
So it's very exciting.
00:32:27:16 - 00:32:49:17
John Simmerman
No, it really is very exciting. And and I shot some video of that. And so I'll, I'll try to edit that in. I'll, I'll try to drop those, those those images and in the video in and it's really cool because again, it's, it's sort of nature based. It's, it's like, you know, some logs that are cut have been cut and allowed and people are, you know, the kids are able to scramble up them.
00:32:49:17 - 00:33:16:17
John Simmerman
And that level of engagement and it's it's sort of like the whole Jane Jacobs thing of eyes on the street. And if you're able to, like, get more families engaged and kids playing in that area, you can start to transform that area away from a scary, dangerous place. In it's almost, you know, paradoxical that that is the way to do it, to make it happen, you know?
00:33:16:19 - 00:33:49:09
John Simmerman
Yes. Let's let's make it a place for people and a place for families. And that will help us deal with a very, very complicated, problem, which is, of course, dealing with, the unhoused and some of the, you know, the drug addiction, and mental illness challenges that are inherent in all of that. I want to go back to the child friendly cities initiative and talk a little bit about this concept of what it really means to be a child friendly city.
00:33:49:15 - 00:34:14:19
John Simmerman
I mean, I have my active town's take on it, which is very much rooted in, the Dutch experience, and how the Dutch are creating an all ages and abilities environment where it doesn't matter how old you are or how young you are, you can get around through active mobility. You can walk, you can bike, you can use transit, you can drive.
00:34:14:19 - 00:34:40:09
John Simmerman
Yes, you can drive. Once you're old enough to drive and get a license, you can drive. You have mobility options, mobility choice, and you can exist in that environment. And kids as young as they're, you know, they're able to to navigate in on the city streets. They're encouraged to do so. By the time they're 11 years old, they have passed some sort of a certificate program within the school system.
00:34:40:14 - 00:35:07:27
John Simmerman
Typically that has demonstrated that they know how to get around, they know the rules of the road, and they know how to navigate the, safe and inviting infrastructure that's out there. And the reason why I bring this up and such elaboration is because when we have an environment like that, it has a profound impact on the kids ability to understand the community they live in.
00:35:07:29 - 00:35:36:29
John Simmerman
And then we can compare that to how kids that are chauffeured around in cars have no idea about the community they live in. Talk a little bit about that work. And and it's just to me, it's always fascinating to hear about that, because it really is astounding how stunted that awareness of the community is from children who don't have this, don't have a friendly, a child friendly city to be able to get around it.
00:35:37:01 - 00:36:12:09
Mara Mintzer
Absolutely. And often you find kids now don't know how to use a map because they've only, you know, been using, you know, GPS systems or maybe they're not getting around. We have to come back to this photo because there's a fabulous story behind that photo. But in answer to your question about child friendly cities, so when you use the Unicef child Friendly Cities approach, you really start by doing what's called a situation analysis, which means what is the situation of young people in your community, what matters most to them?
00:36:12:11 - 00:36:35:19
Mara Mintzer
And so really it was it was a process of narrowing down. So we started with something like 120 different indicators. We could measure used while being on. We kept narrowing it in and the young people actually helped narrowed in. And then we did outreach to 900 children and youth to really find out what was working for them in the community and what was problematic.
00:36:35:21 - 00:36:56:15
Mara Mintzer
And so, you know, while the beginning of growing up, Boulder's work centered a lot around the built environment, not all of the work in terms of what were priorities for young people came up around that. So, for instance, in-person bullying, was a real problem that our young people are talking about as well as online.
00:36:56:18 - 00:37:06:23
Mara Mintzer
But also using public spaces and feeling welcome in public spaces was number two. So it gets at all these different aspects of what it means to be a child in our community today.
00:37:06:26 - 00:37:18:20
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. Now, we've lingered on this photo, because it made you very, very excited as I pulled it up. Yeah. Walk us through this and describe it for the listening only audience too.
00:37:18:22 - 00:37:41:20
Mara Mintzer
Or. Okay, so what we're looking at is a picture of a teenager who is, presenting her vision of her ideal downtown civic area. When I referred to the civic area before, this is a project we did 11 years earlier on the other end of the civic area. So it's, you know, these things are very long term projects.
00:37:41:22 - 00:38:15:16
Mara Mintzer
So this was a photo from 11 years ago, and she's using different found objects to create her vision. And so they're very colorful. You've got different foam blocks. You have, silk flowers. You have, plastic animals and cellophane. And this concept is, actually developed by an urban planner out of California named James Rojas. And this is James's place and activity, which we have used countless times in terms of eliciting from all ages their vision of what they want to build.
00:38:15:18 - 00:38:40:03
Mara Mintzer
Now, the reason I smiled so much is, if you look through the photos, John, you'll find another photo that says Gabby adult. So this young lady is now in her mid 20s and I am working with her now as she is a young adult. She is mentoring the next generation of young women. Back at her same high school where I worked with her on the other side of the civic Area project.
00:38:40:06 - 00:39:01:17
Mara Mintzer
So to me, this shows the power of this work. She and her friend Claudia, who's exactly so Gabby on the left, there is the same person who was in that last photo, and Claudia's on the right. They are now leaders in the community, giving back to their community after having experienced what civic engagement can be like when they were at the same agencies.
00:39:01:17 - 00:39:05:20
Mara Mintzer
Young people. So it's really a, virtuous cycle.
00:39:05:22 - 00:39:37:06
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And it's it's amazing to me, too. And yes, James Rojas that that place it, program. Amazing what you know, you can get when you engage with the children to be able to like, think about. Okay, describe it. Because if you have them drive or if you have them draw out what their, their journey is like to get to school if they're driven versus if they walk or ride a bike.
00:39:37:08 - 00:40:02:04
John Simmerman
This is a huge difference in terms of the amount of color or no no color. And what's missed in that? There's just so much richness that takes place, in for, for peop, for, you know, the children, if they're able to walk or bike, to school. But if you give them that ability to say, okay, we'll design your perfect area and you have what's this?
00:40:02:04 - 00:40:09:16
John Simmerman
You know, this colorful stuff that, like, in James James's kit, it's really, really cool to see what they come up with.
00:40:09:18 - 00:40:35:06
Mara Mintzer
It's so exciting. And one thing James always said, and I've observed to not once and all the times I've used it have kids or adults for that matter. Ever built a parking lot, right? Like that's not that's not what people want to spend their time looking at being a part of. And so I think that's telling. Kids are always actually building nature, water, playful spaces and colorful spaces.
00:40:35:08 - 00:40:36:08
Mara Mintzer
Yeah.
00:40:36:10 - 00:41:01:23
John Simmerman
Now you know, what do you what do you say to the folks that seem or, no, we can't take these kids that seriously. I mean, they're just they're always on their phones. They're always on their devices. You know, they can't possibly have, you know, any any ideas that, you know, serious adults and city planners, you know, need to be taking into consideration.
00:41:01:23 - 00:41:03:17
John Simmerman
What's your response to that criticism?
00:41:03:17 - 00:41:29:12
Mara Mintzer
Yeah, I would what I would do is I would invite them into one of our share out events where the kids who have spent often a whole semester investigating a topic, really delving into it, have a dialog. And I have heard multiple planners, department directors, people in all sorts of different fields come out of those classrooms being so shocked and saying, we need to do more of this.
00:41:29:18 - 00:41:46:03
Mara Mintzer
That's actually how growing up Boulder expanded at the beginning was we would just invite in adults from different places to have a dialog with the kids. Well, so many different city departments saw the benefit that they were willing to put their money where their mouth was and pay for it because they saw the benefits.
00:41:46:06 - 00:42:09:13
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. Now, you had mentioned earlier that a lot of the groups, 70%, I think, of the groups of the children that you're working with are coming from, you know, households that are, you know, stressed from an economic status, perspective. So know this isn't just wealthy boulder and privileged children talk a little bit more about that.
00:42:09:16 - 00:42:33:04
Mara Mintzer
Absolutely. And that really is key. And we work with kids to identify as children of color, who have lower incomes, some young people who have been unhoused, LGBTQ populations really just all the different kids who live in our community. And that's why I often say that many of the pieces of our approach can work anywhere.
00:42:33:11 - 00:42:57:02
Mara Mintzer
But because it really starts by, creating relationships between ourselves and often a community partner. So we work with a lot of nonprofits in town who really know their communities because they're from the community. And what we will do is we will co-create our engagements with them to find out what works and what is reciprocal, so that your community is benefiting from this.
00:42:57:02 - 00:43:20:23
Mara Mintzer
And it's not just us coming in and extracting what we need. That is why we were able to reach 1400 children and families and service providers for Child Friendly Cities initiative. It's we, we said to our community partners, what do you need to make it successful for us to hear from your young people and your parents? And the answer was that means giving them stipends for their time.
00:43:20:25 - 00:43:42:05
Mara Mintzer
That means feeding people, offering childcare, offering interpretation, letting us do storytelling, not just using written surveys. And it was incredibly successful. So it takes a lot more time. It does take more effort and sometimes more money. But the feedback we get is so rich. To me, it's completely worth it.
00:43:42:08 - 00:44:13:09
John Simmerman
Yeah. And we're looking at an image on screen now of, you know, kids huddled around, a diagram, a map, something that you might see at a typical city open house event and and diving in and talking about this elaborate a little bit more and describe this experience, because I can imagine this is just so cool to to see some of the light bulbs go off with within some of these minds and going, oh yeah, oh, what would be fun is if we had this over here.
00:44:13:12 - 00:44:38:23
Mara Mintzer
Absolutely. So whenever we do a project, we think about how to make it relevant for the group we're working with. And so this is it's funny, the civic area is going to be a thread that I tie throughout this whole talk because it's so vast and we've worked on so many aspects of it. So, these kids were looking at a diagram of what the architect landscape architects are proposing for the space.
00:44:38:25 - 00:44:57:07
Mara Mintzer
Now, we have been working with the same group of kids several times. So it wasn't like we just went in and gave them all the information, expected them to know what to do. Although if it's facilitated right, you can get some input. But for this, they had already done previous group classes where they had brainstormed like what?
00:44:57:14 - 00:45:18:07
Mara Mintzer
What would we need down in that space that currently 0% of those young people are using because they don't feel safe there? And this is right next to their high school and none of the kids are going. So what would we need to change to make that a place you would hang out? And so this is them looking at that, seeing if it reflects what they had recommended.
00:45:18:09 - 00:45:47:25
Mara Mintzer
What's exciting is starting in January, we're going to be working with the same group. Some of the kids have graduated, but some are continuing for previous years. The previous years, kids are going to explain the project to their peers. So it's peer to peer learning, and then they're going to create mood boards of really thinking about what do they want the feel of that area to be like, and then they're going to interact with the architects who are working on the mood and naming and identity of the space.
00:45:47:29 - 00:45:55:00
Mara Mintzer
So again, it continues on, but we want to make it understandable to whichever group of kids we're working with at a given time.
00:45:55:02 - 00:46:15:19
John Simmerman
I love it, I love it, that is so cool. When you look at and let's pull up, pull up this, board here because this is taking a look at North Boulder Park and some of the again, the typical types of boards that you'd anticipate seeing out in an open house event that the city, planners are putting together.
00:46:15:19 - 00:46:20:06
John Simmerman
This happens to be out in the outdoors, which is kind of cool too.
00:46:20:08 - 00:46:41:29
Mara Mintzer
Yeah. So this is great. This was a project we did this year where we tried a slightly different approach. We, hired two teenagers to work with us to be teen consultants. And so really, we provided the scaffolding as growing a boulder. And our city colleagues around. Here's the project, here's what we want the outcomes to be in and what we're asking about.
00:46:42:01 - 00:47:05:02
Mara Mintzer
And you tell us what is the best way to ask your peers about this information, and who are those peers, and how do you even communicate to get them to commit? So these two consultants were fantastic. And these, as you said, our visual preference surveys, where the kids have sticky dots and they could choose what they most appreciated.
00:47:05:04 - 00:47:24:29
Mara Mintzer
Now this is an example of, for these two young people who are standing in the photo. They were only participating for 45 minutes on this one day. So we needed to create something that they could just understand quickly and participate in. But of course, we were doing it in the park that, they were trying to design.
00:47:25:06 - 00:47:47:08
Mara Mintzer
And of course, the teens who are the consultants knew how to get their peers there. So they have a WhatsApp group dedicated to that park because teens use it so much. So they had already created that. They send it info out to the WhatsApp group. They, offered pizza, volleyball, all the things they knew would make kids come and volunteer service credit and 40 kids showed up.
00:47:47:11 - 00:48:05:12
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. There's an example of, using some technology for good eyes, so it's not all bad. Yeah, exactly. What haven't we talked about that you would like to, you know, elaborate with a little bit before we, say goodbye here today?
00:48:05:18 - 00:48:35:16
Mara Mintzer
Yeah. One of the photos before that you showed of the two little boys pointing to a map that is Boulder's child friendly city map that growing up Boulder designed in 2019, we have printed, 70,000 copies of that map. And it has been, smash hit. Kids use this map, we send it home free with every kid right before summer vacation, and the kids will put that map up in their home and say, I want to go to these different places.
00:48:35:19 - 00:48:56:12
Mara Mintzer
And so what it does is it's sort of a map that embodies all of the values around, you know, act of transit, nature, free and low cost activities. It's a bilingual map with lots of visuals. And so, we're super proud of that map. And in fact, we just created a course so that other communities can take it to learn how to make their own child friendly city map.
00:48:56:12 - 00:48:59:11
Mara Mintzer
So just wanted to share that because it's kind of unique.
00:48:59:13 - 00:49:24:23
John Simmerman
That is awesome. That is awesome. Now, since we've been talking about technology, obviously printed maps, some of the information gets old. Is there an online version or is there an electronic, app sort of, version that that where things could be added and updated, like if a future destination is no longer a kid friendly destination?
00:49:24:26 - 00:49:43:05
Mara Mintzer
Yes. To all of the above. So we do it in a few ways. There is a virtual one that, if you it has a QR code on our map. So you can either go to our website and find the virtual version, or you can if you have the printed one, you can see the virtual version as well.
00:49:43:07 - 00:49:54:09
Mara Mintzer
The other thing is we print this map yearly. So every year we update it and we either take things off or add new items. So we try and keep it as current as we can.
00:49:54:11 - 00:49:56:25
John Simmerman
Fantastic. Is this the map? I have zero zero?
00:49:56:29 - 00:50:13:22
Mara Mintzer
Yes. You found it. Fantastic. It is the map. And that map was created with 800 children and families, 52% of whom were from underrepresented backgrounds. So that shows their chosen child friendly locations. They're the ones who selected those, not us necessarily.
00:50:13:24 - 00:50:39:03
John Simmerman
Brilliant, brilliant. Now all we need to do is work on the built environment so that more kids can get to these child friendly destinations under their own power. Talk a little bit about how you and your organization is, is helping to encourage the city to do just that so that, you know, we can have more kids that can actually get to meaningful destinations under their own power.
00:50:39:05 - 00:51:05:29
Mara Mintzer
Absolutely. So there are so many different ways we're working on it. There are a lot of transportation projects we've been a part of. So, we worked with families living in manufactured home communities, and affordable housing to have to cross a super busy street to get to many places. And so we worked with them to center their voices in the redesign of two different, routes that they use very busy streets.
00:51:05:29 - 00:51:33:06
Mara Mintzer
So, we are and those are going to have change coming soon. That will be more bike and pedestrian friendly. But the other piece is our community just tried its first community assembly, which if people don't know what that is, I recommend you look it up. It's a really interesting democratic way of working where you have the same group of community members come together over, say, six months, one time for a whole day per month.
00:51:33:09 - 00:52:02:03
Mara Mintzer
They're paid for their time and they're fed and they have discussions about a topic. And and the discussion our community had was about 15 minute neighborhoods and part of growing up. Boulder is job was helping make sure that there were young people who were participating. So, thanks to our work and our city's work, there were several kids who are 16, 17, 18 who were part of that community dialog going into what will make a 15 minute neighborhood.
00:52:02:03 - 00:52:05:02
Mara Mintzer
So that should be pretty impactful for our community.
00:52:05:04 - 00:52:22:10
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And, and I can already hear some of the haters going 15 minute. That's a conspiracy. No, folks, it's not a conspiracy. I did want to highlight this, this PDF of an event, that took place. Talk a little bit about this.
00:52:22:13 - 00:52:44:12
Mara Mintzer
That actually was the North Boulder Park event. So the one that you saw the photos. Yeah. Earlier on. And this was, the flier created by the kids for kids, which again, I love. Like, if I had been planning this, I wouldn't have known to have spike ball and volleyball provided there. But they knew what was going to work for their community, and they were absolutely right because the kids came.
00:52:44:14 - 00:52:47:22
John Simmerman
Imagine that. Just ask the kids I know.
00:52:47:24 - 00:53:15:15
Mara Mintzer
Yeah, they can probably. And they also I just have to say this other thing I have seen when you have intergenerational dialog like in person, that it's really important to do it in person, not through documents. People with fixed ideas, whether it's the kids or the adults, start to loosen and start to change a little bit. It really this is a really important part of democracy to have young people be part of that conversation.
00:53:15:18 - 00:53:25:24
Mara Mintzer
And people lead, they're actually uplifted. So even if it, it was different from how you were thinking, your, usually better behavior. So it's very powerful.
00:53:25:26 - 00:53:46:16
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. I would imagine that, you know, as part of that, the changing of the mindset that you have come across just a large number of parents that have just been blown away by this interaction and how much their children could actually contribute.
00:53:46:18 - 00:54:10:09
Mara Mintzer
Absolutely. I mean, I know kids who ended up writing their college essays about the impact this has made on them to be able to shift something in their community or to contribute. And then what's also really fun, because we're a small enough community, sometimes I'll have kids who have participated in four projects, one in preschool and one in elementary school of middle and high school.
00:54:10:12 - 00:54:17:12
Mara Mintzer
And so it actually creates this lifelong, engagement. And the parents are pretty, pretty moved by that.
00:54:17:14 - 00:54:43:15
John Simmerman
It it occurs to me, I grew up on a, on a, on a ranch in Northern California, and I was a part of for h, as a little, little tyke. And then, you know, all the way up until high school and then shifted over into FFA, Future Farmers of America. And it also occurs to me that, you know, when I look back at my childhood, that was a great opportunity for me to develop leadership skills and being able to communicate with others and peers.
00:54:43:15 - 00:55:04:15
John Simmerman
And I think I served on the board of of my for each, club. And, and so I understood what a sergeant of arms did and that sort of a thing. It seems like this is also a wonderful opportunity for kids to, like, learn some of these skills, social skills, and then also leadership skills.
00:55:04:17 - 00:55:25:06
Mara Mintzer
Well, it's huge because, and one of the things we try and do is we try and offer ways for every kid to be successful. And as I really believe that that's possible. And the way we do that is, you know, maybe some kids are less verbal and don't all right, or more shy. And so maybe they do something based around art and they can share their art.
00:55:25:08 - 00:55:50:22
Mara Mintzer
Maybe it's music, maybe it's acting, maybe it's, getting up and presenting to city council. They they all have opportunities to be leaders. And, another wonderful story is that one of the first young people we worked with, a growing up older, Edgard Chavarria, he came when he was ten. He had never spoken before, but but at the center that growing up older was based out of asked him for his input.
00:55:50:22 - 00:56:12:13
Mara Mintzer
And he shared at a public meeting. He has now been our, board chair this past year. He's in his mid 20s. He works in community engagement for the city of Boulder, and he is utilizing those skills that he learned, and he is the first in his family to go to college. You know, English was not his first language, but he knew that people cared and that he mattered.
00:56:12:13 - 00:56:15:15
Mara Mintzer
And so he has continued that for his own life.
00:56:15:18 - 00:56:27:08
John Simmerman
I love it, I love it. That is so cool. And what a great way to bring this conversation to a close. Maura, this has been such a joy and pleasure having you on the Active Towns podcast. Thank you so much.
00:56:27:10 - 00:56:30:02
Mara Mintzer
Thank you so much for having me, John. It was really a pleasure.
00:56:30:04 - 00:56:45:27
John Simmerman
He thank you all so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Maura. If you did, please give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, I'd be honored to have you subscribe to the channel. Just click on this subscription button down below and be sure to ring that notifications.
00:56:45:27 - 00:57:10:16
John Simmerman
And again, if you're enjoying this content here on the Active Towns Channel, please consider supporting my efforts by becoming an Active Towns Ambassador. Again, super easy to do again that join button right here on YouTube YouTube super. Thanks. As well as head on over to Active towns.org. Click on that support tab at the top of the page. And again there's several different options including becoming a Patreon supporter again, patrons to get early and ad free access to all this video content.
00:57:10:21 - 00:57:33:21
John Simmerman
But you can also buy me a coffee or make a donation to the nonprofit. Hey, every little bit helps and is very much appreciated. Well, until next time, this is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health, happiness and aloha. Cheers! And I just want to also say thank you all so much to all my active towns ambassadors supporting the channel financially via YouTube super!
00:57:33:21 - 00:57:45:21
John Simmerman
Thanks YouTube memberships. Buy me a coffee Patreon and making donations to the nonprofit again. I simply could not produce this content without your support. Thank you all so very much.