Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
HR Voices is a scenario-based podcast for People Leaders who’ve actually had to make the call.
Each episode brings experienced HR and People leaders into realistic, anonymized workplace scenarios—the kind you recognize immediately. Performance issues. Messy conflicts. Investigations that don’t fit neatly into a policy box. Instead of talking about their own companies, guests react to outside cases and walk through how they’d think it through in real time.
There are no right answers here. What you’ll hear is judgment: how seasoned leaders balance risk, fairness, legal reality, and humanity when the stakes are high and the path isn’t obvious.
HR Voices is for HR, People Ops, legal, and leaders who want to hear how other smart humans actually handle employee relations—without confidentiality breaches, hypotheticals that feel fake, or a lecture on “best practices.”
Rebecca Taylor (00:18)
Hello and welcome to HR Voices. I'm your host Rebecca Taylor and I'm here with Natalie Breece Chief People and Diversity Officer at thredUP Natalie, thank you so much for coming.
Natalie Breece (00:27)
Thanks Rebecca, thrilled to be here.
Rebecca Taylor (00:30)
I'm very excited to have you here. For those who are new to HR Voices or are new to the podcast, we're exploring real and fabricated anonymized employee relations scenarios through the lens of experienced HR and people leaders just like Natalie. So we're going to evaluate a realistic workplace situation, and we're going to demonstrate how we assess risk, apply judgment, and design practical responses. So our goal here is not to...
is not to sort of teach you everything about HR, right? It's really about revealing how strong HR leaders think when facing ambiguity. And we're not necessarily looking for a single correct answer because nine times out of 10 in HR, there isn't one. And it's not a neat tie up that you can get out of something.
Natalie Breece (01:10)
I wish there was one answer for each situation. Gosh, our job would be a lot easier.
Rebecca Taylor (01:14)
I know,
I know. I'm like, if we could have a decision tree that's just like, if this, then that, and it's just super smooth, it would be a whole different experience, right? Are you ready for your scenario? All right, so we're calling this one the overqualified candidate. A hiring manager consistently passes on highly qualified candidates, noting in his feedback that they are overqualified and will get bored and leave.
Natalie Breece (01:22)
Yes.
yeah, let's do it.
Rebecca Taylor (01:38)
HR notices the pattern disproportionately affects candidates over 50, though the manager has never referenced age explicitly. When confronted, the manager insists overqualified is a legitimate business concern about retention and fit. HR must assess whether the pattern constitutes age discrimination under the ADEA, whether the business justification is pretextual, and how to address it without triggering a claim from either the rejected candidates or the manager. A very casual easy.
Natalie Breece (02:04)
Man, just a few things in there.
Rebecca Taylor (02:06)
Yeah, yeah, like this
is like just a few different things to discuss, right? So before we get too far into the whole thing, what stands out to you as the most risky or unclear in this scenario to start?
Natalie Breece (02:10)
Just a few, man man, that's a juicy one.
Yeah, I mean, there's so much there, but something you said early on stuck with me, which is consistently.
you said that the manager is consistently stating candidates are overqualified. So what that signals to me is there's a pattern here that we have to work through. But then there's so many different dynamics to this. It's like the human side of it and how that leader thinks. Then you've got the potential risk and the legal component of this. Is there a disparate impact that we have to address? And then the other is like the candidates experience. And how do we make sure candidates aren't impacted by sort of the leaders learning and potentially bias?
So we have to sort of tackle those all
Rebecca Taylor (03:01)
Yeah, it's true because there's so many different priorities that you can weigh, right? And so many different sort of angles as you kind of figure out like what you're juggling and who's impacted. Because there's, like you said, consistently. it's like that means that there's potentially a pool of people who've been rejected by this person, possibly for discriminatory reasons, meaning ageism. you know, it talks about the scenario specifically mentions the ADEA. So just for those who may not know what that is, it's the Age Discrimination and Employment Act of 1967.
Natalie Breece (03:23)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Taylor (03:28)
⁓ And so it basically says that you cannot discriminate hiring or firing someone based on their actual age What I want to kind of ask you about is like we kind of talked a little bit about this in the prep session Is the the concept of a candidate being overqualified? Before we even dive into like the risky part of it who decides if a candidate is overqualified under qual well, that's so much under qualified Let's talk about overqualified like who should be the one that kind of determines whether or not they're overqualified for a role in an ideal world
Natalie Breece (03:51)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it's a great question. And I think it's such a relevant one, to be honest, Rebecca, because I feel like this is happening more and more, especially now that there's more talent on the market than there had been in the past. And so I guess the question is, does the candidate determine that they're overqualified or does the employer decide? I think it's a little bit of both. It's a partnership. think
Rebecca Taylor (04:03)
Mm-hmm.
Natalie Breece (04:19)
these things come up through the types of questions that you ask a candidate. I think overqualified is a really loaded word and statement, which is what does that actually mean? And to me, think it's kind of step one here is if you hear a hiring manager say, I'm worried this person's overqualified, I think the question that you have to ask questions to them on what does that actually mean to you? Like, what would it look like if this person worked on your team?
Rebecca Taylor (04:28)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Natalie Breece (04:49)
I sort of like that as a starting question because I think it helps to uncover really what does overqualified mean to them and how are they thinking that impacts the work and their team. Because it could mean that they're worried about retention risk. It could mean that there's a little bit of imposter syndrome for them as a leader and they're worried about like this person actually knowing more than them and having more reps than them.
Rebecca Taylor (05:08)
Mm-hmm.
Natalie Breece (05:14)
Or it could be that they just think that person's gonna be bored. So there's so many different components to this that you have to take into consideration.
Rebecca Taylor (05:21)
Yeah, I feel like it's one of those coded words too. Like overqualified doesn't usually mean that they're actually commenting on their abilities, their actual abilities. It usually means that they're commenting on something else entirely. it sometimes is age. Sometimes it is like you mentioned imposter syndrome on the manager's part. Like it's like this person's done XYZ at bigger companies that I've never done before. How can I manage someone who clearly knows more than I do? Right? Like that's a...
Natalie Breece (05:34)
Yeah.
Rebecca Taylor (05:48)
a nuance that overqualified can kind of hide a manager's own insecurities and still be discriminatory against the person who they're discussing, right?
Natalie Breece (05:57)
Yeah, I also think it can sometimes, like let's just call it what is. I think it could be a little bit of like a cop out. Like you're not quite sure why you don't think this person's right for the role and so you just sort of go with that because it's like overqualified, sort of easy to say and like then move on from. But.
Rebecca Taylor (06:04)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Natalie Breece (06:16)
You guys go back to that part about this being like a consistent thing. I think in any scenario, if it's the first time, you should still be asking the same questions. But if this is a consistent thing, then I think you really sort of have to unpack is there bias here or what else, what dynamics are at play that are resulting in this sort of pattern of behavior.
Rebecca Taylor (06:32)
Yeah, yeah. And you're kind of getting into sort of my next question, which is like, what's the first thing you want to try to understand in this scenario? So if you're the HR person, you're sort of faced with this particular scenario. What's the first thing you'd want to understand and who do you need to hear from?
Natalie Breece (06:49)
Yeah, think different HR leaders could take different approaches here. I think you could go the policy route, which is like, wanna quickly go into an investigation mode and understand what's happening. For me, think for step one is like remembering this as a human and this human is stating something to you that you sort of owe as their partner to understand why. And so step one for me is like gonna be like, me more. you're believing, let's say it's one candidate in particular.
Like, you're saying this person's overqualified. Like, tell me more about that. What is it that's signaling to you that that person's overqualified? And sort of question I mentioned before, which is like, what would it look like if this person was on your team?
and hearing out what they say there. And then I think it will help if you just let them talk, you know, you don't interject, you just let them talk, you will learn a lot about how that person thinks. And so I think that's important, like listening first, and then from there understanding more. think even asking a question of like, if this person was on your team, what would the first 90 days look like? And see how they think.
Rebecca Taylor (07:42)
Yeah.
Like make them go into the
seat, yeah.
Natalie Breece (07:55)
Yeah,
exactly. And see what comes up there. So it would be very much like a discovery conversation to understand if they're worried, if they say, don't think this person would stay. Like, what did they tell you that makes you think that they wouldn't stay? What are the things you heard?
Rebecca Taylor (08:07)
Mm-hmm.
That's it right there. Are there things they said or things you heard that make you feel that way? Or are you just putting a broad generalization against this person's quote overqualification? Because it's like, whenever it comes to overqualifying and if the reason is because they're afraid someone's going to get bored and leave as it's mentioned sort of in this scenario. I've seen this so many times. I spent so many years in recruiting that I would always roll my eyes at that because I'd be like, let them decide that. Let them decide if they're going to get bored or if they're going to leave. like,
Natalie Breece (08:24)
right.
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Taylor (08:41)
you know, sometimes someone needs to step back. Maybe someone was in a role before that, you know, that just was no longer compatible with their stage of life or their interest and they need to kind of like, you know, go into something that's a little bit less than their typical skill set would allow because they're sick of being maxed out, right? Like that doesn't necessarily mean they're going to get bored and leave unless they say something that indicates that. But I love that you just said that.
Natalie Breece (09:02)
Right,
exactly. And I actually don't think there's anything wrong with the manager stating that to the candidate in a way of like, hey, I noticed you have a lot of experience. You've been in this field for many, years. I worry you might get bored and like see how they respond to that. Or hey, like, you you've done something, you've managed a team before. This is an individual contributor role. Why are you interested in making that shift?
Rebecca Taylor (09:19)
Yeah.
Natalie Breece (09:28)
versus like the leader or manager making an assumption about why that person might want that role.
Rebecca Taylor (09:32)
call. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. I was just going to ask you about assumptions. So what are some assumptions that you're trying to be very careful to not make right now as the HR person?
Natalie Breece (09:44)
Yeah, that's a great question. I would want to assume positive intent. So I think that the first thing is like, I don't want to assume this person feels like they don't want to hire them because of their age. I will watch for cues that that is the case, but I don't want to make that assumption. I also don't want to assume that this person has, you know,
Rebecca Taylor (09:59)
Mm-hmm.
Natalie Breece (10:07)
it has the reps to sort of know whether or not this is like a bias thing. I think a lot of times in HR we assume people have had like formal interview training or that they've had enough experience to understand like how do you really ask the right questions to assess talent. I would want to make sure we don't assume that and we go back and ask like what questions are you asking? What are you looking for in this interview process that are helping you kind of get to the conclusions that you've gotten to?
Rebecca Taylor (10:19)
Yeah.
Yeah, I love that. like you can, there's so many things that you can just ask people that, you know, it's so bad to make assumptions right off the gate because it's also like, you know, unless you're assuming good intent, assuming good intent in a situation like this is like the good kind of assumption, right? It's just like, okay, let's just assume no one's looking to, you know, do the wrong thing here. Let's assume that we're all just trying to move forward in the right way. But I love, you know, sort of just being able to just ask, like, you know, have you ever interviewed people before? Do you know how you're making decisions about how someone is going about?
Natalie Breece (10:49)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Taylor (11:04)
answering their questions. Because a lot of times, like you said, like most people just don't know, they might not even be aware that that this is a bias. They might genuinely think that this is a pattern or that there's evidence backing up their assumption, you know.
Natalie Breece (11:17)
Yeah, I also think that because we're human beings, all of us, it is very common for hiring managers to gravitate towards candidates that are similar to them because they've been successful, they've gotten to their role, and so sometimes it's not intentional at all. It's just like, I'm...
Rebecca Taylor (11:28)
Mm-hmm.
Natalie Breece (11:37)
this person thinks like me, this person acts like me, this person has experience similar to me, that they sort of lean that way. And that's where we can play a really important role for leaders of like really the teaching why it's so important to like go after talent that's actually very different from you. And the very best leaders are leaders that hire people that are smarter than them and oftentimes more experienced than them.
Rebecca Taylor (11:53)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, it's so true. Because at no point in your career are you supposed to stop learning, right? And so at a certain point, you might get to the point where you're not going to be learning as much from the people above you as you could from the people technically below you, right? And I'm talking hierarchy. I'm not talking like, you know, societally, And so that's the thing that I think is like really, really a great takeaway from this, like you said, is like, you know, you can, people do tend to have an affinity to hire people that are like them.
Natalie Breece (12:06)
Right.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Rebecca Taylor (12:27)
And the greatest thing that you can do is kind of like acknowledge that, understand that, and then change that. Because that's something we're all capable of doing within ourselves. It doesn't take great systemic change to challenge our own ways that we judge people in interviews, right?
Natalie Breece (12:41)
Right, what it's so tricky about this scenario and interesting about the scenario is you sort of have to do that at the same time that you're also making sure that this candidate or set of candidates hasn't been wronged. So you're teaching the leader, you're understanding the leader's assessment process and wanting to do the right thing there, but at the same time making sure that you don't have an issue that's then impacting candidates that could otherwise be very qualified for your
Rebecca Taylor (12:55)
Mm-hmm.
Natalie Breece (13:10)
team or your role.
Rebecca Taylor (13:12)
Yeah,
yeah. I think there's an opportunity here for HR to provide more data to help to guide the manager too, right? Because, you know, the manager insists that if they're overqualified, it's a legitimate business concern because they could leave and, you know, it might contribute to turnover. And we know that retention is important because turnover is a very expensive business cost, right? So like as an HR person, it could be your chance to sort of run reports on, you know, to get some information on.
Natalie Breece (13:19)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Rebecca Taylor (13:40)
you know, does age impact turnover like or, you know, does level of experience like are we seeing more turnover at one level than we are at another? And then if so, you might find a whole other can of worms that might need to get investigated, which is sometimes what happens in our job. It's like you're remodeling the bathroom. All of a sudden you have to re-pipe everything, right? ⁓ But it's like there is sort of a chance to kind of then, you know, help the manager make a more data driven assessment instead of just this inherent like
Natalie Breece (13:58)
Hahaha
Rebecca Taylor (14:10)
Gotcha.
Natalie Breece (14:11)
Yeah, yeah, it's absolutely true. It's one of the things I, you know, as my title is Chief People and Diversity Officer, I have a lot of passion in ensuring that you have diverse teams. And part of that is, is people sometimes think diversity just as it's like gender diversity or it's ethnic or racial diversity. It is so much bigger than that because when you look at the makeup of a team, if you're somebody who believes that diverse teams win, that they're more successful, you want to look at it at every level of do you have
multigenerational diversity? Do you have experiential diversity? Do you have, then you have all the other things like, know, ⁓ gender and race, etc. But the teams that tend to be the most successful are those that have wisdom from, you know, a multigenerational workforce and they have different patterns of thinking. So I think the data can help lead you there. I also think data on the candidate side of like, okay, going back to that consistency thing where at the beginning was consistently choosing
candidates are saying sitting the candidates overqualified is looking at like who have they interviewed over the past 12 to 18 months who have they hired and is the data telling us a story that we really do have a potential disparate impact concern here and a risk that we need to we need to we need to act on immediately.
Rebecca Taylor (15:30)
Yeah, yeah. And so what are some of the, I guess, like competing things that you're looking at here, right? Because there's potentially the legal risk because you could have a whole pool of candidates who were discriminated against in their hiring process and now could have a reason to, you know, file an EEOC claim or something like that. Like that could be a possibility or could not, right? Again, like trying not to make too many assumptions.
What are some of the other risks that you're weighing as you're kind of digging into what could be happening here?
Natalie Breece (16:02)
Yeah, so there's a risk on the candidate side. There's also a risk with that manager, which I think some HR folks might not realize at the outset. And then as you dig in, you realize it's like that as you launch investigation here, you're going to be looking at data on the candidate, but you're also effectively investigating that leader. And so is there a concern that that later that leader then feels like there's a retaliatory decision made?
Rebecca Taylor (16:26)
Mm-hmm.
Natalie Breece (16:26)
based
on them telling you as the HR professional, I'm not gonna hire this person because they're overqualified.
and feeling like they could trust in that conversation. So I think there's sort of both of those. And I'm not a lawyer, so obviously we take partners with our legal team in making those determinations. But I think you sort of have to look at how do you manage the candidate piece, where there's been potentially folks that have been impacted by decision-making there. And then after that, how do you ensure that the investigation was thorough and you heard that leader out, which is kind of goes back to that first set of questions that you're asking. So that if you do make an employment decision,
decision on that person that you have evaluated all things to assume that the positive intent before you make that decision.
Rebecca Taylor (17:11)
Yeah, yeah. And how do you make that decision? Who ultimately makes the decision about what to do here? mean, is it just HR? Is the manager also involved? Like, who sort of owns whatever outcome happens here?
Natalie Breece (17:28)
So I do not think HR should ever be making these decisions. Ultimately, HR is serving up information to leadership to make the decision. We make recommendations, but we shouldn't be firing people in isolation. We really shouldn't be firing anybody. We're guiding on the risk and what we've learned and are making a recommendation to that leader. And that leader then makes the call. So certainly, it's a partnership where we are guiding others.
Rebecca Taylor (17:55)
Yeah, I agree, especially when it's like you can only control so much, right? Like you can only control so much of the outcome, so much of how the manager is going to react to something, how much the candidate is going to react to something. And to your point, kind of being that really good guide, offering like a good, better, best scenario even is like really what we're here to do. And then sort of be like, OK, now you take what you know and make the best decision you can in the time.
Natalie Breece (18:14)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Taylor (18:23)
And that's where a lot of the HR work that we do kind of lives in those little moments that aren't necessarily seen by everyone, but are seen and supported a lot in one-on-one type conversations with managers who might not even realize that they could have a pattern of discrimination behind them, right? Like they don't know until you tell them.
Natalie Breece (18:42)
Right, exactly. And I think there's sometimes a misconception that HR hires and fires people. We don't. We support teams in hiring and firing decisions. And we are business partners in those moments. And it's super important that we stay in that role.
Because I think in order to be able to have a relationship that is fruitful with both the employees, with the leaders, and the company, and help run a company, you have to be able to play that role as an influential partner and a consultant, not as a decision maker.
Rebecca Taylor (19:16)
Yeah,
yeah, firm agree. And so in sort of situations like this where, I would call it, you know, I this scenario is very specific to, you know, ageism and hiring, we'll call it broadly, rather than an overqualified candidate. ⁓ So, but in situations where a hiring manager needs a little bit more help in their interview process and in making those kinds of hiring decisions for whatever reason, right? What are some things that you could put in place
before you get a hiring manager like this making a decision based on their own biases that they might not realize they have, right? Like what foundation can you build?
Natalie Breece (19:52)
Yeah, so I think apart from sort of asking the questions and guiding them, I think you do have to educate them on the laws and here's sort of what expectations are there for you in terms of assessing candidates. These are some what could be seen as discriminatory decisions. Here's what we cannot ask questions about. You sort of recalibrate on that. And these are the things that you can lean into. And then after that, you really then, I think it's look at, do you have the
Rebecca Taylor (19:59)
Mm-hmm.
Natalie Breece (20:21)
interview guides? Do you have, do you need to institute new interview training? Do you need to educate the team on sort of what type of workforce tends to be the most valuable in the organization? So it's like I think you take multiple parts of that. You also do compliance training, but I compliance training...
without all of that education just becomes like teaching somebody HR language. You're not actually teaching them sort of why this stuff matters. So I think that could be part of it, but I would start with the others, which is like, here's what you need to know about interviewing and how do we create structure where you don't even have to think about this. It's sort of just part of like your process.
Rebecca Taylor (20:46)
Yes, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I like that. And this is also where, because I used to recruit for a company that mostly hired entry level sales talent. And entry level can mean so many different things. It can mean it's your first job out of college or it could mean it's your first sales job. So you could have had other jobs before that, right? So, but when I first started there, there was sort of this penchant for hiring people right out of college and, you know, just kind of focusing on that group. And if you're not in that group, then you weren't going to, you know,
Natalie Breece (21:23)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Taylor (21:29)
you were never going to make it past the first or second interview with a manager. And part of what I did there was putting in things like interview calibrations, teaching people about how to read a resume. So it's even just like some of the basic things that you don't even realize that a lot of managers just don't learn and they've done just fine up until this moment. So sometimes we have to be those people that put in some structure, but also like force them to question decisions that they've made, decision patterns that they've had before that
Natalie Breece (21:39)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Taylor (21:58)
maybe impacting sort of how they have to move ahead too.
Natalie Breece (22:01)
Yeah, I love that that's your background. Actually, I started out doing that too. I've got a talent acquisition background, was hiring a lot of entry-level sales professionals with also the same challenges where sometimes it's entry-level might mean something to somebody that isn't really what we want to be assessing for. So yes, you do have to put those measures in place. I think everything you just said around the calibration process, super important to avoid bias.
Rebecca Taylor (22:07)
Really?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And it's like, it's tough because at first they're just like, more meetings, more HR, just like, you know, messing with our flow of hiring. It's all these things that we've done well before. But then eventually they, you know, it changes once you start to see some wins. I think this is where it can be really tough in HR is like, we want to make it so that, you know, people are comfortable. We want to make it so that we're being collaborative. But sometimes we have to be the people that are like, no, like you can't keep making decisions like this and we have to stick with it and not
Natalie Breece (22:33)
Bye.
Rebecca Taylor (22:57)
just let them revert back to bad behaviors or past behaviors, right? Because it's like, not only is it bad for the candidates that it's impacting, but it also keeps the company open to a lot of risk too. And then now you're more involved because you're actively here trying to work on it, right?
Natalie Breece (23:14)
Yeah, and there's something you said that think is so important, like teaching people how to read a resume. I think sometimes, especially if you're newer to interviewing, you let the resume tell the story versus having the resume just be a guide to kind of start that story with the candidate. Because it's only gonna tell you so much. And I think you can fall into a trap of reading a resume and building the narrative yourself as a hiring manager before you even hear from the candidate.
Rebecca Taylor (23:18)
Yeah.
Yes!
Yes, yep.
yeah, man, I'm gonna like, I could go back on a soapbox about this. ⁓ it's true, I it involves different types of biases in hiring, whether it's ageist or if it's like, you you say, you worked at this company, which means that you're gonna do really well here because we're in a similar field or we're a similar size, whatever that is. Or the flip side would happen, it'd be like, ⁓ if I work in a startup and this person's only worked in big corporate environments.
Natalie Breece (23:48)
Hahaha
Rebecca Taylor (24:09)
they could like, sometimes people will look at a resume and immediately discount that person because they're like, they've never worked in a startup before, they have no idea what it's like. And it's like, well, I didn't know what it was like until I worked in a startup. No one does. Like that's, we all started somewhere. And just like, like you said, like people who kind of have that narrative just off a resume, it's like that's, you're making too many decisions without having one conversation. And I think it's part of what's making hiring so hard right now too. Like, you know, just too many things, too many.
Natalie Breece (24:12)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Yes.
Rebecca Taylor (24:38)
decisions are being made with not the correct amount of information.
Natalie Breece (24:41)
Right, with what you just said, it's easy to look at that resume and be like, okay, this person's only been in big companies. They're not gonna understand a startup environment. What if instead, you took the other approach of like, what could this person bring because they haven't been in this environment before and they've been in another environment? It's flipping the narrative of like, why shouldn't we hire this person to why should we hire this person? And what do you start to think about if you take that lens?
Rebecca Taylor (24:55)
Yes.
Yeah.
Ooh, I think that's a really cool, like, that could be a really good tool for someone who might be in this situation too. It's just like, okay, instead of focusing on why we shouldn't, let's think about why we should just flip that. Ooh, I love that. I love that. That's a really good takeaway. Okay, so believe it or not, we're actually at times. I have one last question for you. I know. So in all of this, you know, we talk a lot about assumptions and biases and how they can sort of, you know, maybe impact how we make decisions in a bad way or a good way.
Natalie Breece (25:17)
Mm-hmm.
Wow.
Rebecca Taylor (25:35)
There are a lot of assumptions out there about HR and how HR works and what we do. So what's one assumption about HR that you think needs to be challenged?
Natalie Breece (25:45)
And I cannot believe we're out of time. I could have talked about this all day with you. Oh my gosh.
Rebecca Taylor (25:47)
I know. I know me too. I have so many other tangents we could have gone on to. Maybe like
part two, part three, we'll keep going.
Natalie Breece (25:54)
⁓ we might have to. Assumptions on HR. Man, there are many assumptions on HR, but I would say, I think there's sometimes fear of HR. Like people will say, HR is not your friend. Don't talk to HR.
we are your friend, you know, in a lot of ways. And I think that this scenario is a good example of like, HR is also, we're just trying to get it right too. Like we wanna make the right decisions. We want people to be treated fairly. We want the opportunity to educate and make, know, whatever workplace we're in, a place somebody can do the best work of their lives. And so, you know, I think that that's really at the end of the day.
We are here for you, we're here for the employer, we're here for leaders, and we just want to get it right, just like you do.
Rebecca Taylor (26:44)
Yeah, so true, so true. Everyone's just trying to do their job. Everyone's just trying to get it correct. No one's here trying to make it harder for anybody just because it's fun.
Natalie Breece (26:54)
Yeah,
exactly. Not at all.
Rebecca Taylor (26:57)
Yeah. Well, Natalie, thank you so much. This was so fun. Thank you for being here and for sharing all your wisdom. I feel like there's a lot of really good takeaways for people who are listening to this. So thank you.
Natalie Breece (27:06)
Thank you for having me. This was a blast. Could talk to you all day.
Rebecca Taylor (27:09)
Yeah, I know, me too. I thank everybody for listening and have a great rest of your day. Bye.