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Confessions of a Shop Owner is hosted by Mike Allen, a third-generation shop owner, perpetual pot-stirrer, and brutally honest opinion sharer. In this weekly podcast, Mike shares his missteps so you don’t have to repeat them. Along the way, he chats with other industry personalities who’ve messed up, too, pulling back the curtain on the realities of running an independent auto repair shop. But this podcast isn’t just about Mike’s journey. It’s about confronting the divisive and questionable tactics many shop owners and managers use. Mike is here to stir the pot and address the painful truths while offering a way forward. Together, we’ll tackle the frustrations, shake things up, and help create a better future for the auto repair industry.
Matt Lofton [00:00:00]:
You know, you can't do a $99 fluid transmission service on a modern day vehicle and change 12 quarts full synthetic ATF. It's not possible. So we call it a vanity flush. I got a can job in the system and what's supposed to happen is put the brake fluid service on and then they put vanity brake fluid service in there. And it's got the description of what's probably actually happening at that vanity service, which is if I Pay your technician 0.2 to go do a brake flush. Right now we're charging the customer $89.
Speaker B [00:00:27]:
He's sucking the, vacuuming out the master cylinder and putting it in the.
Matt Lofton [00:00:29]:
Vacuuming out the master cylinder and pouring some pretty fluid in the top side. And so that's what the description says. The following program features a bunch of
Speaker B [00:00:38]:
doofuses talking about the automotive aftermarket. The stuff we or our guests may say do not necessarily reflect the beliefs of our peers, our sponsors, or any
Matt Lofton [00:00:48]:
other associations we may have.
Speaker B [00:00:51]:
There may be some spicy language in this show, so if you get your feelings hurt easily, you should probably just move along. So without further ado, here's your, your host, Mike Allen with Confessions of a
Matt Lofton [00:01:01]:
Shop Owner presented by techmetric.
Speaker B [00:01:04]:
The best software ever invented for any purpose ever. Good morning, Matthew. How are you doing?
Matt Lofton [00:01:16]:
Very well, sir. How about yourself?
Speaker B [00:01:17]:
Is it Matthew? Is that your name?
Matt Lofton [00:01:20]:
I mean, you talking about my, my biblical name or are you talking. Yeah, yeah, that's my, that's on the birth certificate.
Speaker B [00:01:26]:
I think I'm going to start calling you Matthew occasionally.
Matt Lofton [00:01:28]:
That's fine.
Speaker B [00:01:30]:
So before we get too far into it today, I just wanted to know, can you tell the new swag that's on my desk?
Matt Lofton [00:01:37]:
I see it. Is it, is it actually autographed?
Speaker B [00:01:41]:
Oh, buddy. Oh, buddy. Yes.
Matt Lofton [00:01:46]:
That you back on ebay?
Speaker B [00:01:48]:
This was a gift, actually. I love the picture on the back is even better. You with the mossy oak and the gun over your shoulder. That's super high quality. No, one of our listeners sent this to me. The Great Hunt Damrist.
Matt Lofton [00:02:02]:
Okay.
Speaker B [00:02:02]:
He said he had it with him at the meeting in Toledo, but he was keeping it for me. So he almost gave it to you.
Matt Lofton [00:02:12]:
That's pretty good. So you'll have to ask Dan Buss about his.
Speaker B [00:02:18]:
Does Dan have one too?
Matt Lofton [00:02:20]:
Dan actually bought one on ebay.
Speaker B [00:02:23]:
That's awesome.
Matt Lofton [00:02:24]:
Because I was showing him at one of the meetings that I said, you know, it's been, it's been 14 years now since I've been in a car and I still have Hero cards that sell for, like, between one and five dollars on eBay. And it was really a joke that I showed him because I was like, you know, it used to always amaze me that people would come up and know who I was and ask for my autograph because in the grand scheme of things, it's not like I was Dale Earnhardt Jr. Or, you know, Jimmy Johnson or anything. So it was. I was always surprised, but. And then, then it made me laugh even more when I found out people would actually try to sell my autograph on. On ebay
Speaker B [00:03:07]:
after going to court shows, signing events. Yeah, you can go to automotive trade shows and do signing events. I think Tech Tech Metric has hired a. A driver who I think just retired out of the Xfinity series, maybe. Yep, it's one of the guys. So you guys can get together and compare notes to what it feels like to lose to me and go karts.
Matt Lofton [00:03:29]:
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker B [00:03:30]:
What?
Matt Lofton [00:03:31]:
Okay.
Speaker B [00:03:32]:
It's so funny that I'm so obsessed with this and you guys are like this child's play, man. Okay. It's the only thing. I was never the star quarterback in high school. I got picked on a lot. All right? You know, this, this is my one thing.
Matt Lofton [00:03:46]:
You got rush hour carts, man.
Speaker B [00:03:48]:
Yeah, I've got rental Go Karts. That's the only thing that I really excel at.
Matt Lofton [00:03:51]:
So we all need something, Mike.
Speaker B [00:03:55]:
Dare to dream. Dare dream. All right, so we are meeting in the mid, mid late April, but we're going to be talking about March or so. I guess I should pull up March numbers. I'm sitting here looking at April numbers. How are things going in your world from the shop perspective?
Matt Lofton [00:04:14]:
Yeah, it's been good. Glad to get past the, the winter months of things. I. I'm tired of the cold weather until, you know, we wake up today and it's, you know, we're just right, right back to being 39 degrees outside.
Speaker B [00:04:29]:
So it's gorgeous right now, man. It's beautiful.
Matt Lofton [00:04:31]:
But it is nice outside this afternoon. But. But yeah, no, thanks for good. We had a good. Had a good first quarter, had a record March and still left a little meat on the bone. And so excited to see what the summer is going to bring for us.
Speaker B [00:04:45]:
Very cool. And you guys just finished a Fly with the Eagles course. Was that in California?
Matt Lofton [00:04:50]:
Yep. So we had a Fly with the Eagles course out in Los Angeles in February. That was a fantastic event. Had 68. 68 attendees there. So that was a. A record attendance for, for that event for Elite. That was really A lot of high level operators in that room.
Matt Lofton [00:05:08]:
It's always a place. It's a. I'll tell you man, it's, it's kind of neat to go out there because LA is such a big town obviously that all of those shop owners are in the same association, kind of like asta and they're all competitors with each other, but they are, they're lifelong friends.
Speaker B [00:05:26]:
Yeah, it's ASTCA out there, right?
Matt Lofton [00:05:29]:
Yes, yes, I always get that, I always get that one confused with the pet agency, the aspca.
Speaker B [00:05:36]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you that I. So I just got back from Fort Collins last week where I went to huska Automotive in Fort Collins, Colorado for our, our elite 20 group meeting pro service. And I was talking to a couple of different people who had been at that class in LA and talking about how, you know, they went 15 years ago and it's totally new and they were raving about what a good class it was. So when is the next one?
Matt Lofton [00:06:03]:
So we have the next one coming up this coming month in May in Charlotte, North Carolina and do what now?
Speaker B [00:06:11]:
Is it sold out or do you still have a couple seats left?
Matt Lofton [00:06:13]:
We have a few seats left. So our. If you are interested in it, I'd strongly encourage rush to the website get signed up. We usually fill up fast a couple weeks beforehand. You know, us shop owners are procrastinators and do things at the last minute so. But no, but we're excited about it. It's been, we've been making subtle changes to it over the last two years and the last two events that we did, we kind of took some big swings at the bat and, and made some wholesale changes and you know, based off the feedback and kind of how, how our, our, our subjective feelings about how it went afterwards, we, we feel like it was, it was all for the good and, and had a, we got a really good response out of it and, and excited to kind of see that that class continue to, to grow and develop.
Speaker B [00:07:02]:
Well, I think what I heard was three days of intensive from, from you and Marconi were pretty impressive stuff and people were very impressed with, you know, how you've taken the, the groundwork and, and the basic bricks that were started by, by Cooper and taken it up to the next level. So good on you on that front. I do want to drop a word about a class that I'm actually hosting through the podcast in June. It is Saturday, June 13, which is the second Saturday in June. Everybody come into Raleigh on Friday night. We're going to have live shenanigans at Car Fix bar and lounge upstairs. Don't drink too much because we got class starting in the morning. But Seth Thorson taught a class at Vision.
Speaker B [00:07:50]:
It was a three hour long class about creating your own AI agents. Because right now everybody's rushing to market with AI tools that you can pay them four or five hundred dollars a month to use that tool. His point was if you get a little bit of knowledge and do a little bit of practice, you can learn how to make your own AI agents that do a lot of those things for yourself in house. And so he was able to scratch the surface at Vision in a three hour course. This is nine hours. This is all day. So it'll be, you know, breakfast, lunch and dinner provided. It's going to be a great class.
Speaker B [00:08:24]:
Haven't decided yet if we're going to have it at the shop or if I'm going to have it. Depends on how many people are coming. If we get too many registrations then we'll have to get a meeting space at a hotel room somewhere. But I think it would be fun to do it at the shop. But Again, that's Saturday, June 13th. Come down a night early for shenanigans at Car Fix and then get your learn on all day Saturday and go back and rule the world on Monday. Uh, so you should come to that. It'll be an easy drive for you.
Matt Lofton [00:08:52]:
You can count me in on that one. That's right up my alley. I love that kind of stuff.
Speaker B [00:08:55]:
I think it'll be, I think it'll be a lot of fun. I'll have links to sign up and pricing information and everything before this episode is published. So that'll be in the show notes for the episode. And if you don't see it there, just hit me up on Facebook messenger and I'll get it to you.
Matt Lofton [00:09:14]:
Cool, Sounds good.
Speaker B [00:09:15]:
So let's talk about March.
Matt Lofton [00:09:18]:
Yeah, let's talk about it.
Speaker B [00:09:20]:
So March at my reporting store was not great. It was not terrible. We traded places with service advisors. One needed to go back to the downtown store. And so anytime you have a small store with one primary selling advisor and you, you know, trade people, that creates a little bit of upset for the customer base, not seeing the guy that they know. And so the guy that is there though is doing great, starting to build relationships, starting to have, he's already starting to have customers that are returning for previously declined work, that kind of thing. So I'm happy to see that car count was not where I Wanted it to be last month, but part of that was, I think, due to spring break and us being on campus, that always has a major impact. So 214 cars last month, and the ARO was 393, which is a real big problem.
Speaker B [00:10:26]:
It's not where we want to see it at all.
Matt Lofton [00:10:28]:
Okay.
Speaker B [00:10:30]:
But again, there's some. A little bit of the yips because it was a new advisor, a little bit of frustration with spring break. But ultimately, I think the biggest issue that I'm dealing with there right now is tech average quote had fallen down pretty badly because that. That 400, I'm gonna call it 400 for rounding up to the nearest 10 was 32% close rate. So that means that tech average quote was like under 1200 or right at 1200, which I don't like to see. So that's actually.
Matt Lofton [00:11:03]:
Is the tech staff there pretty much the same?
Speaker B [00:11:09]:
There's one person that's different, but the skill level is pretty much the same. I've got one. One strong tech, one kind of low B, and one GS.
Matt Lofton [00:11:18]:
Okay, so do we feel like that's. Do we feel like something changed on the technician inspection side, or do we feel like that was more of a. The new service advisor trying to learn the processes?
Speaker B [00:11:30]:
I think what it is is while the service advisors that I swapped, they'll both do fine from a customer fit. They're both really good at customer service and building relationships and selling. The advisor who went out and went back downtown has a lot of automotive knowledge, and the one who came in does not. And I think that is playing a factor into reduced tech average quote because he's not spotting maintenance items that weren't recommended. He's like, hey, you know, I checked carfax and this thing never had its XYZ service. And that there's no drip tray picture. You know, go take me a drip tray picture. And so that's a little bit process from the guys doing the DVI and a little bit of just automotive knowledge and accountability from the service advisor to the guys doing the DVs.
Speaker B [00:12:23]:
So I think that's what's doing it. But already this month, I mean, as we started talking about it, arrows up $100 and closing rates the same. So that means tech average quotes up 300.
Matt Lofton [00:12:36]:
Okay, so. So based off our previous conversations, I feel it. I'm accurate here, but I don't want to assume. I want to ask the question. The most of the workflow at that store is going to start off with some sort of a quick service. I'M guessing.
Speaker B [00:12:52]:
Yeah. Correct.
Matt Lofton [00:12:53]:
It's not a heavy diagnostic shop or anything like that. You're getting students. Okay. Are, are most of your appointments pre scheduled or do you guys have a lot of walk ins?
Speaker B [00:13:07]:
It's like 50 plus percent walk in. Okay.
Matt Lofton [00:13:13]:
All right. On the pre scheduled appointments, do you, do you build the appointment the day before? Like do you build the RO the day before?
Speaker B [00:13:23]:
No.
Matt Lofton [00:13:25]:
Okay.
Speaker B [00:13:26]:
Should we.
Matt Lofton [00:13:28]:
Well, I'm not saying that you, that you have to. I'm gonna. We're trying to solve tech average quote and we're trying to talk about what the advisor can do to, to add to tech average quote. I think one of the things that I find with advisors not doing the preventative maintenance stuff is in the moment. It's. They don't have time.
Speaker B [00:13:47]:
Yeah.
Matt Lofton [00:13:48]:
They feel like that adds time to the presentation and to the estimate and they, they get rushed and they want to get to the customer concern or the big safety item and, and they leave out the other stuff. So one of the ways that you could solve that issue is for your pre scheduled appointments go on to the, you know, go on to the calendar the day before. All the ones that are confirmed, have them before they leave, go ahead and create the RO in the estimate status. So nothing's approved yet. So you're still leaving it on the estimate side of things. And then they can go through Detect Auto from there and build out all of the preventative maintenance items that it's due for and add in any deferred work. If the vehicle has been there before now you've got a pre built ticket. In most cases, if the car's been there before and hasn't done all the, you know, the fluid maintenance services, you're probably looking at a two thousand dollar quote before the technician ever gets it right.
Speaker B [00:14:46]:
I like that.
Matt Lofton [00:14:48]:
Yeah.
Speaker B [00:14:49]:
Why do you always make up, come up with these like common sense, we should know how to do that already. Things that hit me in the forehead
Matt Lofton [00:14:57]:
like that because I sit here for eight hours a day and wonder why we're not doing it either.
Speaker B [00:15:04]:
Fair enough.
Matt Lofton [00:15:04]:
All right.
Speaker B [00:15:05]:
Good enough. All right, Kyle, you heard that we're going to take 10 minutes at the end of every day and just look at the appointments for tomorrow and we're going to go ahead and open the ticket and build out the deferred work and, and go ahead and run Detect Auto and look at the deferred maintenance or the overdue maintenance and have that ready to go. Now are we going to be presenting that to the customer at write up or Are we going to wait for the DBI to come in?
Matt Lofton [00:15:30]:
And so I mean, I think obviously that depends on how you want that process to go. My conversation would probably be if that's a. My preference would be if it's a returning customer, I would like to cover the deferred work from the previous visit just because it makes sure that we don't lose the priority of it. Right. Hey, last time you were in we talked about, you know, the vehicle needing some rear shocks. That's something we're going to keep an eye on today. Especially if it was a red item that was declined the last time I would attempt to resell that at the front end. If it was a yellow item, I would let them know that we're going to take a look at it again.
Matt Lofton [00:16:13]:
Hey, last time we were in, we said we were going to keep an eye on those brakes for you. They were at 5 millimeters. You know, I'll make sure to take a look at them. If they're at or below 3 millimeters, today would be a great day to get them replaced. Right. Something along those lines. So you're kind of setting yourself up and then the same thing with the fluid maintenance services. I'm not going to do a hard sell for the fluid maintenance services other than if it's a low mileage vehicle and I can get them on a BG oil plan, you know, inside the wind, that 50 to 70, 000 mile window, that's a.
Matt Lofton [00:16:49]:
I would probably try to sell that on the front end copy.
Speaker B [00:16:53]:
So I do want to get. I've had the BG guy in, wants to do a lunch and learn with the front of house guys in Raleigh about, you know, giving them some word tracks and the ability to, to describe the value and the service and the warranty and using their protection plan as a, as a tool to get engagement in that service. But I feel like we're not really executing on that at a high level yet. But the dude who came in and did the lunch and learned also, I think it was like his second month with the company. So I gotta, gotta call him up and get another MOA coffee mug.
Matt Lofton [00:17:33]:
Yeah, I mean it's, it's a, they have a great program, they have a great product. It is difficult on the advisor side of things just because I think the corporate world has set the wrong expectation for what Fluid preventative Fluid maintenance is. You know, what we try to do. I wish, I wish I could get a higher level of adoption rate on this. But I understand the, I understand the Reason that's not. But what we're trying to move to is, is, is putting two fluid services on every ticket. So we have a, we have the BG service and then we have a downsell option. And the downsell option is, we call it a vanity flush.
Matt Lofton [00:18:21]:
Just because you have a lot of corporate stores in your area, AAA's and Firestones and Goodyears and, you know, Mr. Tires, and they're running 89.99 brake flush specials and all that kind of stuff. Right. And especially a transmission fluid service. There's a vast difference in price and what you get for that price when you. But from a customer standpoint, we all call it the same thing, right? But you know, you can't do a $99 fluid transmission service on a modern day vehicle and change 12 quarts of full synthetic ATF. It's not possible. And so, so we call it a vanity flush.
Matt Lofton [00:18:59]:
And so I got a can job in the system. And what's supposed to happen is, you know, they put the brake fluid service on and then they put the vanity brandy vanity brake fluid service in there. And it's got the description of what's probably actually happening at that vanity service, which is if I Pay your technician 0.2 to go do a brake flush right now, and we're charging the customer $89.
Speaker B [00:19:25]:
He's sucking the vacuuming out the master cylinder and putting the vacuuming out the
Matt Lofton [00:19:28]:
master cylinder and pouring some pretty fluid in the top side. And so that's what the description says. And so the word tracks there is, hey, we have two different options here. This is what you should do. We have this one because it'll beat any price in town. So if you're, if you're price comparing, this is probably what you're getting from a service standpoint. I'm just the one that's telling you on the front end. Right? So that wouldn't be exactly how we would say it, but that's kind of what we're, that's the point that we're trying to get across is if you see another brake flush out there for $89, they're probably not bleeding the brakes at all.
Matt Lofton [00:20:01]:
Four master and all four calipers and spending 45 minutes to an hour doing it with a flush machine. They're sucking it out, pouring some fluid in. The technician scrolls Facebook for five to 10 minutes and then, you know, pumps the pedal up, test drives it and brings it back around.
Speaker B [00:20:17]:
Do you think that's actually happening?
Matt Lofton [00:20:19]:
I know it is. Have you, have you Talked to your technicians that you've hired from some of the corporate stores or some of the dealerships that are doing the, like, used car inspections and stuff like that.
Speaker B [00:20:30]:
I haven't hired anybody from a Firestone or anything like a AAA in a long time.
Matt Lofton [00:20:34]:
But, yeah, so it's been a while for me, too. But I, I did, you know, when you're. Especially in. Where I had zero industry experience, so I didn't. I thought those were better. Right. Like, I thought if I was hiring somebody from a big franchise store, I'm like, man, I'm getting a good one here. And.
Matt Lofton [00:20:50]:
But I would go talk to those guys. And that was common practice.
Speaker B [00:20:56]:
That's dirty, man.
Matt Lofton [00:20:59]:
I've. And I'm not gonna say every one of them did that. And obviously each one of those franchise stores is only as strong as the manager at the store. And, you know, there's, there's different skill levels of technicians at all those places. There's great people out there that work with those at those. And there's great franchise stores out there. I don't want to downgrade all of them. But the pricing structure does lead it to.
Matt Lofton [00:21:21]:
And you know, the pricing structure and the pay plans oftentimes lead to shortcuts. Right.
Speaker B [00:21:27]:
So what you're saying, Matt Lofton of Elite Worldwide, is that any technician who works at a corporate store is cutting corners and doing it cheap.
Matt Lofton [00:21:37]:
No. Oh, man. So, but, but I mean, it's out there in the industry, right? I mean, take alignments, you know, I mean, you see the alignment specials out there. For 69 bucks, it's a toe and go. I mean, you know what it is. I know what it is. And I just got really tired of trying to explain all that to customers. And so it's, it's.
Matt Lofton [00:22:01]:
I'll give you the option. I'll give you exactly what their service is. I'll, you know. Now how many times do we actually sell that? You know, my hope is to never sell it. It's really just there from a. For a conversation starter.
Speaker B [00:22:12]:
Yeah. When you make it sound terrible like that, nobody's going to buy that. And that's good.
Matt Lofton [00:22:15]:
Yeah.
Speaker B [00:22:16]:
It's just as illustrative.
Matt Lofton [00:22:19]:
Yeah. Just, just an illustration. Just, just a visual sales aid. And then, you know, if, if we had to, you know, if we had to compete on price alone, it gives us a starting point in the conversation.
Speaker B [00:22:31]:
This will make your fluid pretty for a little while, you know, until you, until you get out of sight, anyway. Well, that's an interesting. I like the idea of Having a, you know, you're, you're late, you're laying the, the McDonald's cheeseburger next to the Ruth's Chris cheeseburger. And they're both cheeseburgers. Yeah, one's. One's a lot cheaper. They'll both fill you up. Yeah, one's gonna make you feel gross after, the other's not.
Matt Lofton [00:23:02]:
That's right.
Speaker B [00:23:05]:
Cool. Okay, so what I'm taking from this is pre build tomorrow's estimates, go ahead and run detect auto, go ahead and pull in deferred and refresh the estimates as needed, you know, when appropriate. If it's a red deferred item that hasn't been addressed, go ahead and try to sell that at the counter at drop off and plant the seed for anything that's yellow deferred or, or detect auto maintenance recommendations, that kind of stuff.
Matt Lofton [00:23:36]:
Yep.
Speaker B [00:23:37]:
But if, you know, if it's maintenance services, then, you know, you plant that seed that are overdue, and then you can always get the drip tray pictures and say, hey, we thought we were going to see this confirmed that we did see what we thought we were going to see.
Matt Lofton [00:23:49]:
So the other thing that that does is as they're building those, they see what their potential is for the day. Right. So, and when I'm building that ticket, I should be paying attention to what kind of car it is. And when I'm running through detect Auto, running through past, how many times have they been here before? Where are they at with their, you know, interval services of what's due and what's not due? You know, so I'm getting a better idea about kind of opportunity that car is because the other thing that drives down tech average quote and aro is, you know, if we pre schedule a bunch of 20, 24 Hyundai Kias, you know, yeah, it's, it's nobody's fault. It's just the way the schedule worked out today. Right. We, we drove.
Speaker B [00:24:34]:
I don't care what year they are. This is an average. So don't be using that as an excuse. Okay, Continue. Sorry.
Matt Lofton [00:24:41]:
Well, it is an average, but if we, if all of them are the average, then it, then it will affect the average there. So, you know, but it's still not an excuse because if we know that now we know. So if you think about car count, car count is really there to generate opportunity. Right. If I could get enough opportunity off of one car, I would use, I would do one car because it would be easier to fix one car a day than it would be to fix 20. So I mean your car count goal really needs to fluctuate with what, what the available amount of opportunity is for what you have coming in. So if you, if, if he's printing out those ros from, for tomorrow today and he looks at it and he goes, ooh, we got seven pre scheduled appointments tomorrow. But none of these are going to have good opportunity.
Matt Lofton [00:25:28]:
Well, those seven cars don't count, right. We, we need to get on the phone and we need to figure out where we're going to get five more cars from that are going to give us some opportunity.
Speaker B [00:25:38]:
So maybe that's something that, you know, the idea, what we're trying to implement is 10 and two touch points that we're giving updates at 10 and two so that we don't have to deal with those inbound calls asking for UPD. And if we were on top of that by 3 o', clock, usually there's a little bit of a lull before the pickup push starts. Maybe that's the time to start pre booking and or pre building estimates. It's also a good time to look at all the pre books that you got to make for pickups. You know, we're still struggling with pre books and getting engagement with that. I will tell you that the advisor at this store is the best in the company at that at.
Matt Lofton [00:26:18]:
Do you feel like you're struggling with it at the advisor level? Do you feel like you're struggling with it at the customer level?
Speaker B [00:26:24]:
Advisor level? 100 customers don't care.
Matt Lofton [00:26:26]:
Okay. Yeah.
Speaker B [00:26:27]:
Hey, my, my job is to be your car guy. Part of being your car guy is to remind you when you're due. I've set a calendar reminder. I'm going to call you and remind you when you're due. It's easy.
Matt Lofton [00:26:35]:
Do you feel, do you feel like you would get better adoption if they felt like they were giving the customer something?
Speaker B [00:26:42]:
I don't know. Elaborate.
Matt Lofton [00:26:45]:
So one of the things that we have found that works well in, in shops where the advisors really, really struggle with this, a lot of times they feel like, you know, because advisors don't see themselves as salespeople as much as we would like them to be salespeople, they don't. Most of the time when you talk to them, they don't consider themselves salespeople. They consider themselves the advisor. I'm helping somebody with their car repair.
Speaker B [00:27:12]:
Customer advocate.
Matt Lofton [00:27:13]:
I'm a customer advocate. Yeah, so. So they like to, they like to do things for. They like to help people. Right?
Speaker B [00:27:20]:
Yeah. So we're into sales and still like to Help people. They're not mutually exclusive.
Matt Lofton [00:27:26]:
So, so, you know, we've made some pre booking incentive programs, you know, that have really helped. So that kind of prompts the advisor like, hey man, you want to help everybody, right? Well, if you don't pre book and you don't have this conversation, they're now paying more for that next service than they could have if you would have just pre booked the next service. So things like, you know, things like a buy one, get one offer, you know, on an oil change package, they pre book today, they get their two oil changes pre booked on the schedule. If you want to do the Pit Stop program like we talked about before, you can make that a contingency for the, for the free oil change. They have to show up to the Pit Stop program. So now you've got four oil changes booked.
Speaker B [00:28:10]:
All right, there's going to be listeners who are, who have not heard that previous conversation. Give us like the three minute Pit Stop program overview.
Matt Lofton [00:28:16]:
Yep. So the Pit Stop program, if, if, if, if you guys went into your bays and you asked your technician that's doing the oil to pull a dipstick on every single car that comes in and check it before he does the oil change and you check the oil level, you're predominantly going to see that most vehicles are low on oil. Now, if you read the owner's manual, owner's manual is going to tell you that one to three quarts of oil between oil changes is normal consumption and that the owner should be adding that one to three quarts of oil. I don't, I don't see a lot of empty quarts of oil in my vehicles, you know, when they pull into the bay. So the dipsticks are low, so I'm assuming they're not adding that oil. So Joe Marconi, this is something that he actually did years ago at his shop and he pushed me on it for the last three or four years. And we finally started implementing it last year to go along with our other oil change annual maintenance program that we have. And it works really well.
Matt Lofton [00:29:09]:
So we set our oil change interval at the six month mark for the oil change itself. And then we call it, it's a halfway stop is a pit stop is what we call that. And essentially the vehicle comes in, we top off the fluid levels and then check the high level wearables, tires, brakes, wipers, bulbs, those types of things. This is a, the car does not go on a lift. We're not doing a full basic because we just did, you know, we just did a Full inspection on it 90 days prior. And it's, it's really just another touch point where we get to talk about deferred services. We get the customer to come back in. My goal for that is I'm in a race to get the customer in the door four times as fast as I can, if I can get them to show back up four times.
Matt Lofton [00:29:54]:
So I had a client that was, that works with us through Elite and we were working through their, their marketing company to get some data on retention rates. And their marketing company did a great job of putting this report together. And I was like, that's a pretty neat report because they broke it down by a first time customer coming in. What is the retention rate to get them back in for a second visit? Once customers will come in for a second visit, what does it take to get them back in? What is the percentage that comes back for a third visit, fourth visit, and so on. And so I thought that was really cool report that they did. So I pulled a lot of other customer data along with my own and I ran it for 10 different shops and we found it kind of was very similar amongst all of them for at least the one to two. All right, so it's about. You have about a 40% chance to get that customer back in after the first visit.
Speaker B [00:30:48]:
Okay.
Matt Lofton [00:30:49]:
After that, you know, those, those good quality shops that have a good experience, you're looking at 70, 80%, you know, of retention rate or higher once you got them back for a third visit.
Speaker B [00:31:00]:
Okay.
Matt Lofton [00:31:02]:
So my plan is, well, how do I get as many first time customers to come back to the third visit as quickly as possible?
Speaker B [00:31:09]:
Because by then they trust you and by the end.
Matt Lofton [00:31:12]:
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B [00:31:13]:
So that's especially the same face that in the same voice that they talk to every time.
Matt Lofton [00:31:16]:
Yep. Yeah, yeah. And so that, that pit stop is one quick, easy way for them to come back in and it doesn't cost them any money. You're doing a value add service and I'm sure you're like me now where you hate to see an engine ticket, you know, get approved. You know, nowadays you're. You like the dollar amount, but you're, you just know, right? You just. Somewhere in the back of your mind, all the past pain kicks in and you just got a bad feeling that, you know, some kind of way it's going to go sideways. So that's, that's what we built into our word tracks there.
Matt Lofton [00:31:49]:
Hey, we do this because we got really tired of replacing engines and we're replacing, we're doing Large engine repairs on modern vehicles because of low oil level and the damage that that low oil level does over time. And this is a quick, easy, cheap way for you. Yeah, you could go buy the oil and do it yourself or you could come here and we'll do it for free.
Speaker B [00:32:08]:
So I was at my pro service meeting last week and we were talking about effective labor rate and some of the indicators and things that impact that and affect it. And one of the guys was Michael Putnam from Tamrock's Automot. He was talking about, he has variable target effective labor rates. He's got one that is like the overall average for the company that they, that they aim at. But you know, he makes a judgment call on the risk factor of the job. You know, if this goes sideways, how badly is it gonna, you know, screw up our day and how badly is it going to mess up things? How much is it going to cost to fix this if it goes sideways? And if it's a very high risk, then the effective labor rate needs to be very high to stomach that risk. And so his estimating process varies based upon the risk of the job involved. And I thought that was pretty interesting.
Matt Lofton [00:33:03]:
So if it is, we do something very similar. We just do it through GP per hour.
Speaker B [00:33:09]:
Yeah,
Matt Lofton [00:33:12]:
and that's, you know, so, and Tech metric, you're a wonderful sponsor and that gorgeous hat you have on, they, they have a neat little tool inside of the program there. But as it came out with earlier this year that lets you set a min max on the GP per build hour. And you know, so we just, we have that built in and say, hey, it needs to be higher, it needs to be closer to the max on these specific jobs. And you'll, we know we'll lose some of those. What we try to do from there, we call it selling the exit. And so if, if, let's just say we get one of those large jobs like that and we price it out, we price it where it's, it's realistic for us to do it right. We're going to cover our risk, we're going to make good money off of it and we're going to absorb any, anything that could happen inside of there. And the customer says no, it's outside of the budget, they agree that it needs to get done, they want to get it done.
Matt Lofton [00:34:11]:
If we would have given them the right number, they would have chosen us to get it done. Right. So at that point in time we'll sell the exit to another repair shop that's closer by.
Speaker B [00:34:22]:
And so here's the thing outdated SMS just, they don't just slow you down, they cost you money. And I learned it the hard way. Before techmetric, I was wasting time on inefficient processes, manual updates, back and forth calls with customers. Now I handle everything in one place. Dvi, customer communications, payments, real time reporting. It's all in one page. Since making the switch, my average repair order has jumped from $293 to $916. And it's not just me.
Speaker B [00:34:51]:
Tekmetric powers almost 10,000 shops nationwide. By the time you're hearing this, it probably will be 10,000 shops, helping them grow and operate smarter. If you're tired of losing time and money to outdated systems, tap the link in the show notes and see what techmetric can do for you.
Matt Lofton [00:35:08]:
You know, he's a, he's a sole proprietor, owner, operator. He's the only employee in the business and shop right there beside his house and he likes doing that big work
Speaker B [00:35:18]:
and good for him.
Matt Lofton [00:35:20]:
We shoot it right over there to him.
Speaker B [00:35:21]:
You know, what ends up happening is you get a job and you really don't want to do it and you're like, you know what, I'm just going to price it through the roof so that they go away and then they say yes.
Matt Lofton [00:35:32]:
So son of a. And so obvious. I've done that before too. We've all done that.
Speaker B [00:35:37]:
Right.
Matt Lofton [00:35:38]:
Because. But there has to be a secondary consideration in there and that is it. That's the customer themselves. Right. Because the ones that you're talking about there are, you know, they're not only is it a problem job but you know, they're a bit of a problem customer too, or a potential problem customer and kind of my, you know, it's just very difficult. But you do have to profile to some degree. Right. Because we don't know everybody's situation so you can't prejudge everybody.
Matt Lofton [00:36:08]:
But if it's reasonable to assume I'm getting ready to take their last dime on earth to get this car fixed and there's a chance that there's, you know, other stuff. In other words, I'm just fixing this problem to get it back on the road, but there's going to be other things wrong with the car. Yeah. Then we'll just, we'll wash our hands of it, make the recommendation out the door because it's just not worth it. Like you said, it's. And, and you can't really blame them. Their, their expectation level is high because you've taken everything that they have Right. They've invested their entire net worth into, into fixing the vehicle.
Matt Lofton [00:36:44]:
And usually if you're investing your entire net worth into fixing the vehicle, you're not fixing everything on the vehicle. You're fixing an engine or transmission, a large, some sort of large repair. But there's still going to be other things.
Speaker B [00:36:57]:
180,000 miles.
Matt Lofton [00:36:58]:
Still 180,000 miles on it. And I mean, and we make that mistake too. We, you know, we bought a, we bought an engine in March that we didn't really do anything wrong. You know, it wasn't a workmanship error. It wasn't anything like that. We did a large repair on a customer's vehicle, and it was 190,000 mile Jeep, and it did 190,000 mile Jeep things a day after it left, you know, and so wasn't related to the repair. But, you know, you feel bad in the situation of, you know, you either stick to your guns and draw a hard line and say, nope, wasn't my fault. If you don't like it, it's 90 million miles of highway.
Matt Lofton [00:37:42]:
It starts at the end of the driveway, you know, you know, you suck it up and, and try to retain the customer. Yeah, I get it.
Speaker B [00:37:54]:
You know, we were dealing with one like that this morning. One of the guys was telling me it's a customer that we've been telling for over two years that their engine mounts were blown out and it's worn a hole in the flex by the catalytic converter. And she has a new exhaust leak from the muffler. And she assumed that all the sound was coming from that. Because I was thinking we're like, hey, you've got. And she like shouted down the advisor. I know about that. I'm not worried about that.
Speaker B [00:38:21]:
Just fix the muffler and fix the muffler. And she comes back. Is it still making exhaust noise? Yeah, because that hole is getting bigger and bigger from the converter and. Yeah. And so, you know, when it is all of their free money, all of their reserve and emergency account, there is an emotional imperative that the car be like new again. Like, not literally like new, but. Yeah, you're just more likely to have customer perceived comeback situations, you know, so.
Matt Lofton [00:38:54]:
Yeah, and that's where, you know, really good intake conversations come in, you know, making sure that you're taking time to build that relationship with the customer to understand exactly who they are, what they have going on. And, and are you the best place to really service their vehicle? Right. Like, you know, we oftentimes, you know, we live in a vacuum in ASTA and changing the industry, podcast, you know, Facebook groups and all of these things. And a lot of your listeners are the ones coming to the training events and stuff like that. And. And we look down on some of these other shops, but there needs to be. There does need to be different levels of service, right? And somebody has to keep some of these vehicles running. So somebody has to have a $70 labor rate out there.
Speaker B [00:39:45]:
There's a market for the Ritz Carlton and there's a market for Motel 6.
Matt Lofton [00:39:48]:
Yeah, I don't. You know, I don't want to be that guy, because that doesn't. That's not what my business model is. But somebody has to keep these cars going to some degree. And so if that's not who you are, you can't be, though.
Speaker B [00:40:03]:
You can't.
Matt Lofton [00:40:04]:
You can't give that level of service to that person. Right? And that's just if, you know, if you walked in with your flip flops and your bikini top and, you know, your shorts on to a roost, Chris, they wouldn't serve you right.
Speaker B [00:40:16]:
How much would you pay me if I agreed to walk in and flip flops and shorts and a bikini top into a wrist, Chris, with you,
Matt Lofton [00:40:25]:
I'd give you $100 to see it. Mike,
Speaker B [00:40:29]:
I think I'm going to need. I think I'm going to need 503 drinks first.
Matt Lofton [00:40:33]:
5. I bet if I gave you the three drinks first, 100 would do it.
Speaker B [00:40:38]:
So I. You know what? That's what we're gonna do. That Friday night shenanigans about 9 o', clock, we're gonna leave Carfix, we're gonna take an Uber over to the Ruth Chris downtown. And. And I'm gonna need to borrow a bikini top from someone. Sorry, I don't have one.
Matt Lofton [00:40:52]:
Okay, so a hundred dollars. And if they see this, I'll pay the tab.
Speaker B [00:40:59]:
I don't think there will be a tab because we're gonna get kicked out. All right, that's.
Matt Lofton [00:41:06]:
Man, I'll take.
Speaker B [00:41:07]:
I shouldn't have said on the air for a thousand. Alex, I do have a question for you. I want to ask, and this is totally ancillary, this is a conversation that I was having with some friends the other day. Where do you stand on engagement bait? Video clips on social media, like, say that.
Matt Lofton [00:41:29]:
Ask me that question again.
Speaker B [00:41:30]:
Rage bait. To get.
Matt Lofton [00:41:34]:
I mean, I don't know that I have an opinion on it. I mean, best. I mean, I think sometimes it's funny. It's difficult to tell sometimes what's Rage baiting and what's being said. That's the, I would say that's the only thing that, just because, you know,
Speaker B [00:41:52]:
we're going to get a clip from this episode of you saying that any technician from Firestone or AAA is a crooked. And we'll see how the engagement goes from that.
Matt Lofton [00:42:01]:
Yeah, So I would say, you know, you remember months ago or year, last year, I guess there was the Friday night, the Friday posts that were happening inside of the Facebook groups and things were, you know, spinning out of control there. The problem with that was, and a few people pointed out it was really difficult to tell the difference between the rage baiting posts for a while and then the. Obviously then they just kept escalating into, you know, you know, more and more outlandish, you know. Yeah, but, but I mean, you're, when it first started, it was like you really couldn't tell who was asking a real question that was, you know, on the surface level, a. I can't believe this person is really asking this question in an open forum or somebody that was making a, you know, a, a rage bake post. You know, so other than that, because there's been a few of them that I've looked at them and you got, you start digging into it and then you' like, ah, this is, this is a rage bait post. And I just wasted five minutes of my life reading the comments on it. You know, But I mean, from a marketing standpoint, they do what they do.
Matt Lofton [00:43:04]:
They, they work well. Right? I mean, they, they get attention.
Speaker B [00:43:08]:
Well, I am here for the pot stirring and the. Oh, speaking of stirring pots. Sorry, this is, I did not mean for this episode to become shameless self promotion, but I submitted a class for ASTA Expo and I don't know if it'll be accepted or not. We'll see. But it's Tanika Haynes, myself and Lucas Underwood and it's an owner's only class, max 50 people. And, and it's born of Tanika's famous quote, what they eat don't make you fat. And it's a conversation about why you got to stop worrying about how other shop owners operate their business and worry about your own. And it's really going to be kind of an open discussion across a myriad of topics.
Speaker B [00:43:56]:
But I think it's going to be
Matt Lofton [00:43:58]:
a lot of fun. I'm going to be honest with you, that's a, that's a very good topic and it's, it's something that needs to. Because it's, this is a difficult industry. You know, to be competitors in. Just because our. Our natural instinct is to talk crap about every other competitor in the area. And it doesn't have to be that way. Right.
Matt Lofton [00:44:21]:
It just doesn't. You know, like I said, I mean, you don't. I mean, there's competition there. Competition is good. We can run competing campaigns against each other, and we can do this, we can do that. But you don't see restaurant industries really do that. That much. You don't see.
Matt Lofton [00:44:39]:
You just don't see it in many other industries. Right.
Speaker B [00:44:41]:
There's more cars driving by outside than I can ever work on.
Matt Lofton [00:44:45]:
Yeah. So the dealerships, right? I mean, like car dealerships. I mean, they're directly competing with the exact same product. And you don't see them. You know, you don't go to. You've never gone to a car lot and then. And talk, you know, talk to them about, you know, I stopped over there and they were like, oh, my God. That's, you know, all that.
Matt Lofton [00:45:04]:
All they ever do. All they do over there is just beat people over the head, and they're gonna pack an extra $5,000 into this car, and they just, you know, they're just ripping off grandmas and little old ladies, and for real, you know, they just don't do that. And it would be easy in their industry to do it, right? But for whatever reason, they don't, and we do.
Speaker B [00:45:24]:
And.
Matt Lofton [00:45:24]:
And it's a. So it's. It's a. It's a topic that needs to get brought up more often, you know, because the rising tides do. You know, it raises all ships, and. And if we do want to change, it's because we put the customer in a really difficult situation there because it's really difficult for them because they're kind of caught in the middle, right?
Speaker B [00:45:44]:
Y.
Matt Lofton [00:45:44]:
They come to me and we talk about how terrible car fix is, and they go to car fix and they're like, oh, strut daddies. They're awful. And, you know, they're stuck in the middle trying to figure out which one's telling them the truth, you know?
Speaker B [00:45:55]:
Well, the one that's telling them the truth is the one who tells them what it is they want to hear, which. Whichever is easier for the wallet. Right?
Matt Lofton [00:46:01]:
Yeah.
Speaker B [00:46:01]:
Well, I think you should come to that. Now, the course description does say no coaches, no filters, you know, no vendors. But since you're a shop owner, I think you can sneak in. But if you are a listener and you haven't been to ASTA Expo, go to the confessions of a shop Owner podcast page and there's a pinned post at the top that is a link. I'm giving away up to 10 free tickets for a first time shop owner to attend ASTA Expo. Thanks to my wonderful sponsors like Elite Worldwide that are making that possible through the podcast. But you can fill out the application there. It's a few short questions and 17 long essays and a video testimonial.
Speaker B [00:46:50]:
It's not really that much, but come to the Expo. I'd love to meet you guys and shake hands. Matt's going to be there the whole time. It's a great event and I'm looking forward to.
Matt Lofton [00:47:01]:
To it.
Speaker B [00:47:02]:
I know that Tools in Pennsylvania is coming up later this week. This episode is actually going to be released right after that. So Brian Pollock's going to be there recording episodes without me. So God knows what kind of conversations they're going to get into while dad's away. Should be a good time.
Matt Lofton [00:47:18]:
Yeah, that'll be fun.
Speaker B [00:47:20]:
I think it will be. I think it will be.
Matt Lofton [00:47:21]:
Maybe, maybe he'll bring the feet back, you know.
Speaker B [00:47:24]:
Oh sweet baby Jesus. I'm going to be at a Napa event in Mexico, so I'm looking forward to that. That's gonna be nice.
Matt Lofton [00:47:32]:
You taking the wife?
Speaker B [00:47:33]:
Yeah. You think I would go without her? I've traveled a lot without my wife of late and it has gotten me, it's gotten me the cold shoulder with the family in general. Sure. I was on. I was in Fort. Have you been to Husk Automotive yet in Fort Collins? I'm not.
Matt Lofton [00:47:48]:
I was, I was very disappointed that the way it scheduled out this year. I was, I was not going to be able to make that one.
Speaker B [00:47:56]:
What an operation, man. And what like just awesome individuals they've got in that organization from front to back. And you know, they're doing. I don't, I don't know if they want me to even share, but they're doing bigger numbers than any shop I've ever been to in Houston. And they're doing it kind of the, the classic way, not with any, any big change or big difference.
Matt Lofton [00:48:21]:
You know, I tell you, it's every single time I go to a, a pro service event and you know, I was at Toledo a couple weeks before Kuskas that you were just at. It's just humbling to get around some of those people. I was, you know, I was on the phone. I actually drove there and back because this was all the TSA strike thing and it was like, man, I've been doing a lot of travel of Late too, without my family. And the last thing I wanted to do was get stuck in the airport and not be able to get back home. So I was like, well, if I rent a car and drive up there, at least I can leave whenever I need to leave and I can get back. So I was, I was on the way back and I called my dad and talked with him for a little bit. And you know, he's been fortunate to be very successful in business over, over his life, over his lifetime.
Matt Lofton [00:49:09]:
But sitting next to some of the people in that room, I was like, you know, had we known what we, you know, have we known 20, 30 years ago, what I know now, you know, of the automotive industry and doing automotive repair and what some of these guys were able to do over the last 20, 30 years, I said, man, we missed the boat big time. And it's just, it's just really impressive and it's humbling, you know, to, to be around people that have done so much inside of this industry. And you just, I mean, I remember the first time, my first pro service meeting was at Houston and I left. I didn't even think it was possible for an automotive repair shop to really do that. You know, I mean, you knew like a big mega 25 bay location or something like that. But, you know, you've been to Harrison's multiple times and from a building standpoint, it's not like it's the most impressive thing in the world.
Speaker B [00:50:00]:
It's a building and they're crushing it, just killing it.
Matt Lofton [00:50:04]:
And you know, you go, you go sit and talk to some of these other guys and see the numbers that they're able to do out of a four bay store or eight bay store, and then, you know, or just the empires that they're able to build and add on to over the years. And it's just, like I said, it's, it's incredibly humbling. It's inspiring. And if you're not, if you're not part of a peer group, I strongly recommend looking into it if you are one of those individuals that's trying to get the most out of your career and time in this industry. Because you can either spend 20 years trying to figure out how to do it all yourself, or you can go to those meetings and, you know, they, they call it R D, you know, which is rip off and duplicate, right? And it speeds up that learning curve tremendously. And, and, and like I said, just opens you up to, to possibilities that you wouldn't have thought were, you know, were achievable prior to going and seeing somebody. Seeing somebody else do it, you know?
Speaker B [00:50:59]:
Yeah. I mean, and also I have a little bit of imposter syndrome when I'm in the room with those guys. Right. Because just seeing what, what they're producing and their leadership skills and the, the teams that they've built and, and then you get to hang out with them and they're just, they're just hard working dudes, you know, and women that are just in there constantly studying to be better at what they do and surrounding themselves with people who are better. So I'm just lucky to be in the room, you know, so.
Matt Lofton [00:51:36]:
Yep. I feel the same way. Feel the same way.
Speaker B [00:51:39]:
Well, dude, thanks for taking the time to chat this month and I will see you. Will I see you before expo? When will I see you again? We need to just get. Will you be together? Me, you and Tanika need to get together and hang out.
Matt Lofton [00:51:53]:
We do need to get together, yep. Absolutely. Will you be at STX this year?
Speaker B [00:51:59]:
I know if I go to another show, I'm gonna be strung up by my toes. Although I mean you weren't at Tectonic, man, that was awesome. Darren did great on stage, on the big stage with all the coaches. So that was a lot of fun and overall it was a great event. I look forward to going back next year. I should, I gotta take the family next year, man. That hotel with the Texas outline, Lazy River. My kids would have been in that thing the whole day.
Speaker B [00:52:29]:
It's a super neat downtown area.
Matt Lofton [00:52:31]:
Well, I've never had the opportunity to meet Sunil but I've been a just a general fan of his and the way he runs his business and the fact that he is so open to feedback and so engaged in the feedback. So I know, you know, with this being the first event, I'm sure they got a ton of feedback and knowing how aggressive he is about, you know, trying to take that feedback seriously and improve, I'm sure next year will be even better.
Speaker B [00:52:54]:
Can't wait. Cool, dude. See you in a little bit.
Matt Lofton [00:52:57]:
All right, sounds good.
Speaker B [00:52:58]:
Thanks for listening to Confessions of a Shop Owner where we lay it all out. The good, the bad and sometimes the super messed up. I'm your host, Mike Allen, here to remind you that even the pros screw it up sometimes. So why not laugh a little bit, learn a little bit, maybe have another drink. You got a confession of your own or a topic you'd like me to cover? Or do you just want to let me know what an idiot I am? Email Mike. Confessions of a shop owner.com or call and leave a message. The number 704 Confess. That's 704-266-3377.
Speaker B [00:53:28]:
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to, like, subscribe or follow. Join us on this crazy journey that is shop ownership. I'll see you on the next episode.
Matt Lofton [00:54:05]:
You know, I said, jess.