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Welcome to Humans of Agriculture. This podcast series is dedicated to discovering more about our food system, from the people involved in it.
Along the journey we'll be meeting people from all walks of life from Australia and from afar. Join us as we find out how our communities and our culture shape what we eat, and ultimately who we are.
More people, More often, Identifying with Agriculture
Oli Le Lievre 0:01
Good day, welcome back to another episode of the humans of agriculture podcast. If you can send them a little bit more update, maybe, or hopefully I do come across each week as a little bit off. But this one is a great chat. It's one of those ones that you have with someone and you walk away just feeling immediately energised. And although Erica holiday has been through quite a few different challenges and experiences, she just approaches life with just this sense of optimism, which is honestly just so infectious. And I love how it's coated in a bit of realism as well. And she's talking about the different challenges of the put so much time and energy and effort into reading up the anger start, but then actually making decisions and little things like saving embryos, so when the dry periods and they can actually continue their genetic games, which they've worked so hard for I also really loved how she's never really settled into just having one job. today. She's the chair of Angus, Australia and has a few other different roles as well involved with rulide, amongst others. But she's done that her whole career. And I found that actually really refreshing that you can actually be involved in the farm business merely part time while actually juggling other things as well. I just genuinely really enjoyed this chat. I thought it was so fun, so upbeat. And it would be rude of me not to give a little shout out. And I mentioned just to how much Eric loves calendars as well. I feel like we might have to get him to do a little video message and send it on to an app for me. Let's get into it.
You've come back from a little trip overseas. How are you feeling now it's the back end of the year. So I know lots of people are actually hitting a slump. But I feel like you've definitely got the zest and energy which is infectious.
Speaker 2 1:38
It's a bit of a sense of humour coming back to face what we're facing. I think like we knew we're heading into probably another drought. And we've been preparing for that before we went overseas and our kids hooked up to that place while we were gone. So we knew we had this sort of four week gap of like not worrying about a thing. And so we've just like I said, come back on for a drive around and good applecart and slept about the face. And away we go. Yeah, here we go again.
Oli Le Lievre 2:02
How did you go removing yourself from the business for four weeks? Did you actually manage to stay out of it for most of the time?
Speaker 2 2:07
Yes. So luckily, our kids are they're 22 and 20. And our first thought was that they were going to kill each other while we were away. But they're they seem to get on really well. And we just tried very much just to let it all go. And it worked really well.
Oli Le Lievre 2:21
So I would love to know, and I reckon our listeners would be interested coming back onto the farm after a month away, like in your head, you probably had a bit of an idea of what things might look like. But can you describe what it was actually like? And how is the farm changed in what is a short amount of time, but a month can be quite significant at this time of year,
Speaker 2 2:39
a month is very significant at this time of year. And we're pretty big on forecasting and budgeting. And we did our food budgets a while out and knew that this was not pretty, and then have just taken on a pretty pessimistic attitude when we got the long term weather forecast from Carl goondas. He's a pessimist but you know, it's really good. And we're like, okay, so this is worst case scenario. We know worst case scenario. So let's just plan for that. And I'd like to say that we had wholly planned for that, but we haven't. So you know, we've come back and we're like, okay, we're still need to adjust, make some big adjustments here coming in and sort of plan for the worst and hope for the best a bit.
Oli Le Lievre 3:19
We've actually had big call on a couple of times. Or things about the matter. Have you met him. He's an absolute character.
Speaker 2 3:26
I'd love to meet him because you know, every other weather forecast, it goes, it's sunny out there guys great. And he goes, Oh, guys, this sunny, there's no rain. It's bad. It's bad, you know, so he does have a real empathy for farmers. And yes, I would love to meet him too, because he makes me feel as though he's in it with you. And like he feels for you. And he's doing everything he can to be realistic, but give you you know, hope. So
Oli Le Lievre 3:51
I'll let him know. Because we often get him in for a little bit of a seasonal update of what's happening, but he should be one to get the world anglers form, which I'm sure we'll talk more about that car will be so
Speaker 2 4:01
great. I do so on my cruise every morning. I'll look like where we're going today. And then I go, Ah, here's an email from Carl, should I open that? And I did a few times. So I just knew that. I didn't want to just go back to cold turkey. So we got the odd phone call from the kids from the Kelly yards guy. This is hard, like, you know, cows moving in the background. And my emails from Carl. So there were the two things that sort of kept us real while we're away. Yeah.
Oli Le Lievre 4:26
And have the kids. I guess they didn't really have a choice. They had to step up. They had to get on. Yeah, they told you how the experience was for them and and what they actually gained out of it.
Speaker 2 4:35
Yeah, it was amazing for them because we basically went you guys are in charge. And so daughter had two weeks of uni. So she was and my son was just in charge and working with the people that we always work with. And yeah, it just he's really stepped up and taken sort of ownership. In fact, we've come back now he's telling us what to do. So that's good. That's good
Oli Le Lievre 4:57
succession at the amount of that month. Every Yeah.
Speaker 2 5:01
Well, about two days out, we rang them when we said I look, we thought we might take another month and they're both in the background going no, come home now. Like, you know, so. Yeah.
Oli Le Lievre 5:12
So the farm you're on is your family's farm fifth generation, I'd be really interested to Erica, I guess, turn back the clock a little bit. What was your childhood? Like on the farm? What were you guys running? And what was it? That yeah, I guess resonated with you as a kid,
Speaker 2 5:26
it was idyllic. I would go with my dad every day I loved and still do things in my life that my life pivots around are basically family, cattle and dogs and horses. And that was my childhood. And so I was just a pig in mud. And they were continually trying to say, as I got older, you know, go do this, go do that, you know, they, because my dad was older, he was 23 years older than my mom. So I think they thought that I was hanging about because dad was older, and I was there to help him. But yeah, the more they pushed me away, the more I wanted to come back. So there's some weird psychology going on there. But you know, I did love it. And I've always loved it. But I get what they were trying to do. They were trying to get me to choose it and to experience all these other things in life that were out there. But ultimately, for me, there was no choice. I had decided earlier on that. This is what I wanted to do. And so yeah, here I still am. And that's the point where I'm at with our kids and my sister's daughter as well. They're all like, we want to come home to the to the farm. I'm like, go off and do something, you know, go go away for 10 years, go go do it. But it's like, history is repeated. Like, the more I try and push them away, the more they're like here. So you know, but they will they're going they're going off to do.
Oli Le Lievre 6:37
They're leaving the nest. How do you go with that, though, because it must be like such an interesting, I guess, contradiction in the sense of, you're now your parents, as kids.
Speaker 2 6:49
Oh, I know that. You just don't think that that's going to happen. But here you are. And all of a sudden you have a lot more empathy for your parents and what they went for. But you also know the same feeling that you you know, people quite often discount how young people feel. But I know that their feelings are just it's real, but I just want them to, again, if this is the life that they want, they have to choose it. Because if you don't choose it, I think it's a pretty tough gig. Yeah,
Oli Le Lievre 7:15
comes with lots of rewards. But there's a lot of elements out of the control, isn't it?
Speaker 2 7:19
It is and I spent my whole life going in, I get into agriculture. You know, it's such a great career opportunity. And it's first time in my life that I've sort of gone. Yeah. Now we're at the coalface and we've gone through these tough years, and then looking at going through them again, I'm sort of saying, and everywhere we go in the world, you see these people in their bankers in it. And their goal is people sitting in coffee shops all the time. You know, weekdays I'm going this is how normal people live. But I've just leave that for a month, and I couldn't wait to get back out and put my boots on and get to the taljaard. So you know, call it Stockholm Syndrome, or whatever you will, but it's about living your passion and living your dream. And maybe that's harder, and you don't make as much money. But you know, it's at the end of the day. You can't take all of that with you. Can you so you might as well leave the dream.
Oli Le Lievre 8:08
Absolutely. So what were the things that you did when your parents are trying to push you away? You will obviously kind of be on the fumble. What did you dabble in? What were the things that I guess were keeping you occupied before? Yeah. So
Speaker 2 8:18
oh, you know, I really strayed far I went and worked as a project officer for Angus Australia. And then I had a great 10 years working as a business facilitator and business coach for RCS Yeah, that was a hoot, I really got a kick out of helping other people. And that was a really big mind shift for me, because I remember sitting down with Stan Parsons, and he said to me, Eric, he said, there's a difference between telling people what to do like a consultant, and then helping people help themselves. And he said, it's so much more powerful teaching a man to fish than fishing for the year. And so for me, that was really powerful. And I learned that then and that sort of now moving on into my roles on as a director on rural aid, and Angus Australia, I can really put that into play, because I know it's not all up to me to solve every problem. It's about, it's about facilitating and using the powers of all the people in the room to solve problems. And it's just the solutions are so much better. I'm really
Oli Le Lievre 9:19
interested in this because it's something I think about a lot. I guess I do a fair bit of writing listened to a few other podcasts as well. Was there a pivotal moment when you went from being the person that was trying to do it all? Have your hands in all the different piles to actually, yeah, that point of release of empowering others?
Speaker 2 9:38
Ah, yeah, and point of release is a really great way to say it, because before I had this huge responsibility of trying to solve everybody's problems, you know, and once I got to that point where, yeah, where I realised that really, it's up to other people, and you're just helping them help themselves. It was freedom for me. And the point that like, when I said to you, I sat down with Stan Parsons. like we were having dinner at CES and he came over, it was at your Poon. And Terry McCaskill was there and stand Parsons and I was in my mid 20s. And he probably doesn't even remember who I am. But I remember that moment very profoundly when we're having dinner. So, yeah, it's one of those things, one of those crossroad things, isn't it?
Oli Le Lievre 10:19
It's amazing, isn't it? Like, I was only having a conversation with someone recently on the podcast, and I said, oh, there was a moment in 2018, where I met him, funnily enough, he was a facilitator. And it was I said, what he kind of enabled me with now it was that point, like, where I was just reaching up the top of the hill, and the conversations that we had, and the way that he brought me into the space, actually then allowed that momentum to start and build that confidence.
Speaker 2 10:44
Yeah. So I think you realise probably the effect that you can have on other people. Another one big one for me was Lynn Sykes, when she basically said, you don't have to solve the problems, and it's okay. To things not to be okay. Like for things to even leave and not be solved. Because solving everything isn't? Isn't the solution in a lot of ways. You have to work through things. And as she used to say, you have to open the can of worms will. Yeah, it's a bit of a lot of people have a lot of fear around that. But again, if you've got the belief that it doesn't all have to tie up neatly at the end, in a neat bow, everyone has to have told their truth. And that's the starting point.
Oli Le Lievre 11:22
So you've got the benefits, I guess, of being a facilitator. But what about learning off and getting a front row seat into other people's farm businesses? What was that luck as a young person,
Speaker 2 11:31
a true privilege and absolute privilege. And I took that very seriously. And I wanted to do my very best for those. And we made some amazing leaps in those families. But that wasn't me. That was the process. And I was just running the process. But it was an enormous privilege to be in that position of trust with those people. I loved. I loved it. And I mean, we always laughed, and sometimes it really sort of quite emotional situations. But I find humour is the way through for me and everyone loves that break. So we would, we would laugh and I remember my boss coming Wednesday he going, what are you doing? This isn't a comedy actor, but But you know, we might ground as well. So we had fun while we're doing it. But we yeah, we solved a lot of important issues. Yeah.
Oli Le Lievre 12:17
you broach those really difficult and probably uncomfortable conversations with a bit of a laugh. And then a no, but there's, there's quite a little bit of a serious intent behind this as well. You know, I
Speaker 2 12:27
know that sometimes you just got to laugh at life. It's like this other drought coming. I mean, you know, it's heartbreaking, but you just got to have a bit of a giggle with it and find other people to that feel the same way, you know, you're not alone. And if you just I have a neighbour here to speak with the last year, she used to ring me up. And we used to help each other out a lot and occasionally sit on our ramps and have a beer at the end of the day. And just, but she'd bring me up, and there'd be nothing. And then she just say one swear word. And then I'd say it back to her. And she'd say good chat. It's a good chat, you know, when we hang up again, just the fact that we knew that was bad to get, and we were just going this is crap. You know, how can it be this bad? But yeah, so that was, you know, for me one of the things that that got us both through the drought
Oli Le Lievre 13:11
because of the mechanisms. Yeah, I want to come and chat to that more. But I do want to know so you had amazing experiences with RCS, then the opportunity the door came to come back in to the family business were you with Stu your husband at the time?
Speaker 2 13:26
No, I wasn't mystery at the time. So I was working part time France, Australia, I was doing facilitation part time and working with my dad, I've never had a job that goes by five days a week probably says something about me. I love a love variety and I love being busy. So ya know, so but then students do came into the person into my life and then he worked as a bit and he worked away at a place called Marfa Brook. And I was his fitness as well for a while to in all of that very badly trained wasn't actually vet nurse I was more likely Secretary which is even worse because I have a lot of trouble dotting eyes and crossing T's or as he says to me, I dot T's and cross eyes. But you know, so I was there doing his paperwork. And he became you know, for me going art. No, that's a nine, not a six and just, you know, but we had that time where we work together in his growing business. Yeah.
Oli Le Lievre 14:18
Oh my God. You're one of those people that are gonna say, it's on me no organised chaos. It's chaos in the sense of it's just things moving everywhere. But you're one of the people that just gets things done as well. So you're a true asset.
Speaker 2 14:31
I don't know about that. Because there's all this stuff there about multitasking how it's really bad, but I'm one of those people that will arrive one minute, two or one minute pass, but because I've got five minutes, I'm like, oh, and Steve calls me Justin. He goes, I'll just do this or I'll just do that. And I think what can I fit in those five minutes that's really valuable. I'll just you know, and it's a false is a bad bed fault. And I know it well then
Oli Le Lievre 14:55
oh, you end up being like, I'll just call that person and then all of a sudden it's like, well, like now I can't get them off and it's like I called you and how do I get rid of?
Unknown Speaker 15:05
Anyway, like I say, bad fall?
Oli Le Lievre 15:08
How did you guys go managing that transition? Because it's doing the business full time now.
Speaker 2 15:11
Yes, Jason the business full time now. So when Stewie and I first got together, dad was in his 80s, late 80s. And it was dead in our own business. And I was working away a lot and things. And the lovely man that we had working for us all our life had got cancer, and he was very sick. And unfortunately, that eventually took his life. And so we're at a stage where the business itself was starting to things were starting to break and stuff. And I know that there's a bit of an expectation there that I'd bring Steve back into the family business. But having had the experience of working in family business facilitation, I didn't want that to happen. I had seen so many times where the son in law or daughter in law was like, an easy target to blame, like, oh, that fence fell down, students shut that gate and all that sort of stuff. Not saying my parents could have done that, but I just didn't want either of them in that position. And so Stewie, there was a moment in all that talking about crossroads, were two o'clock in the morning, and you had a dog body, and it was a Rottweiler. He had this temper, which is not good. And his owner had been drunk for two days and decided to bring him in at two o'clock in the morning, still drunk, with a 65 kilo dog that was very sick and quite angry, then he left and we're trying to get a vein in this dog, and he's bigger than me. And I'm trying to hold him and get the rain. And Stuart Smith put that anyways, very difficult and had my eyes closed, go and just get the mind just get the mind, I open my eyes. She's looking at me. He says, I don't want to do this anymore. And I said, What do you mean? He said, I don't want to be a bit. And I said, What do you want to do? He said, I want to be a farmer. And I'm like, great timing. This is great timing. So it the next day, we quit. And we went in the least at the same time I'm talking about the dad was this age and everything was happening, we went and leased a state forest not far from my family home, which is basically a pine plantation, gorgeous blackberries and black snakes. And we were in that for the next eight years, while I was working independently with my dad. So they were probably looking at it like that, or they were that it was crazy. But there's a line for the man from Snowy River, you probably know. And it says go back to the low country, son and earn the right. And that was sort of what we wanted to do. We wanted to do on our own, we didn't just want to take over my family's business. And I think that worked strangely,
Oli Le Lievre 17:32
knowing what you know now and
Speaker 2 17:33
and I think that's a lot of information very quickly. No, it's
Oli Le Lievre 17:37
absolutely fine. So with what you know, now, and also having that, I guess that gathered knowledge of all the different families and things you do, is there things you would have done differently with that transition into the business or what how you guys actually, I guess, got your your real start?
Speaker 2 17:52
Look, I don't know financially, it was great. It actually had the most amazing return on asset, but that's because the asset was not great. But I really believe in bringing something to the business not taking from the business. So I think in our respect, that's what we were doing. And in the end, we bring it up in the state forest with all it was just the most wild country you can imagine. But we ended up breeding 800 sort of really fuzzy longhorned Herefords and Devon's and Adam Mickey balls and stuff we couldn't muster in for eight years, but there were 800 of them. And we ended up trading them for 200, Angus heifers, and then doing a lease arrangement around Walker. And when we eventually did merge with my family business, we bought that to the business to make it even bigger. Yeah.
Oli Le Lievre 18:38
It's really interesting. I only know probably one person I think, like who I know of in my circles, who when they came back to the family business, it was if you're coming back into the business as you bring an enterprise or you bring something else actually back in because you need to pay your way. Yeah, it's really interesting, because I think in your case, you would have learned so much as well. But actually, the business is better off having that diversity or new skill set or learnings or whatever it might be through coming in that way.
Speaker 2 19:04
Yeah. And I mean, I guess my parents weren't sort of thinking that way. They're thinking, I've got this business handed over and work it that way. But that was our idea was that we bring something to the family business and merge the two. And it wasn't nearly as big as the family business. But you know, it was our contribution. And we felt, I think, you know, saying my kids are gonna do something for 10 years, well, they have that opportunity to and at the same time we work out from our end and make the business bigger and have more for if they want to, if they don't want to that's fine. That's That's my retirement and they'll go buy a beach house with
Oli Le Lievre 19:41
with a pressure for you like with your dad's age, and the business and stuff, I guess, like you're coming in as a fifth generation. There's a lot kind of riding on it, but a very quick transition, as well.
Speaker 2 19:53
Yeah, and I didn't feel it that way. For me, it was just what I love to do, and I love to work with my mom and dad and the whole family. had this sort of passion around that the beef industry and particularly the Angus breed and the stud. And, you know, I know going through having been through the osseous course many times, you know, there's a couple of lines I have, they say, you know, you can't have sacred site, and you can't have sacred cows. I had both. And I've never managed to let that goes, and I'm fine with it. Because it means so much to me that that's part of my happiness is is that sacred site and those sacred cows? So
Oli Le Lievre 20:28
can you just elaborate, what do you mean by the sacred cows and sacred sites,
Speaker 2 20:31
I guess, when you're talking about a business, if you're really attached to a particular block of land, but it doesn't, you know, you could sell it and buy two more blocks somewhere else that would make your business more healthy and financially more viable, then you should let go, the fact that you have to stick with that land just because it's been in your family. And same with the cows, you know, sacred cow. So if you're matching your stocking rate to your carrying capacity, like at the moment, I will have sold all my accounts. But I know, again, I'm flawed. Personally, I can't do that I'm very attached to protect the core of the cows. Anyway, I've got to the point where I've got ones I know I can get rid of the core saying here.
Oli Le Lievre 21:10
I feel like it's such a challenge isn't in farming in the sense of like, yes, it's cyclical. And the easy part is if you look at everything as kind of widgets, and everything can move, but then the reality is that you guys have spent decades and generations breeding up bloodlines and genetics. And like, you can't just dispersive that, because that's the prosperity of the business into the future.
Speaker 2 21:31
Yeah, well, it's a year into branding, then. And we believe that we have a brand and we have something special. But yeah, I mean, you do need to be smarter about it, you do need to have mobs that you can go and you just need to have a corporate in stock or tank of embryos, if it comes down to that, but yeah, for me, they're ours. I'm not gonna go buy them from someone else is gonna be the ones that I made. Because, yeah, or we might because yeah, we're very proud of them. And they're out. Yeah.
Oli Le Lievre 21:56
So what are some of those other decisions that you're you've been making over the years? Because I love your optimism and your approach. But knowing that you guys are potentially coming into a difficult time, I think we can touch on maybe the challenges and what actually happened through that last drought to shape those perspectives. But yeah, how are you guys prepared today for? What might be some uncertain and kind of volatile seasons?
Speaker 2 22:18
Yeah, well, look, the first thing that we did do was we sold those mobs of cattle quite early in the piece that we knew were surplus to requirements that was going on, maybe Karl being in a bit of a bad mood when he did his forecasts. And so we didn't
Oli Le Lievre 22:35
quite in the last few weeks.
Speaker 2 22:38
We didn't quite go far enough. We went, you know, what are the chances Wedeman that he's 100%? Right, but he's usually 100%. Right? So yeah, but we did sell a lot. And we sold about a third of our stock now. So we've just got back up our stocking, like maybe our carrying capacity for like what we consider long term. And now we've cut back a third again. And depending on the rolling average of rainfall, which isn't looking great, well, we'll need to do a bit more of that. But we've also have allocated, we've got confinement areas now. So we take the cattle off the country, so the country doesn't get flogged. And we just basically have already bought the cottonseed and the canola to hide to go into that situation. There's just a person, honestly, it's depressing. Yeah.
Oli Le Lievre 23:26
And like that reliance, I guess, on experts like Carl and others, is it so? Yeah, you sold some stock recently? And then that kind of uncharacteristic range rainfall event that happened in the last few weeks? Like, do you sit there and dwell on what could have been or you just kind of go? Well, we made a decision. No,
Speaker 2 23:44
no, never. So there's a sign that when my sister's husband says nice, it's better to be sorry, it's old than sorry, you didn't. But it's just not it's gone. Let it go. And yeah, that one off rainfall events, because this is just a one off rainfall event. I get excited about this. So I was here. I didn't get a Christmas card from this guy. He's like running my life at the moment.
Oli Le Lievre 24:05
I'll text him straight afterwards and say, but you know, I'll give him your number. And so you need to call this person there's this like pagan football players and stuff called a happy birthday card. Sandra awesome. Who's from high end, she's been part of this series as well. And she said her it was a father in law said sell and repent, but sell. And that was their advice. And they've stuck to that as well.
Speaker 2 24:29
Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, look, I couldn't agree more. And once they're gone, they're gone. Just let it go. Yeah, just identify which ones you can sell. That's important thing to do. Do that, right. You know, don't send the donor cow off with the crappy cancers. As long as you've done that, you know, you feel okay about it. And it doesn't matter. I mean, the price is okay. It doesn't matter, but it does matter in your head. But if you make those decisions early, it's not as bad but you know, here I am having to sell more cows and it's going to be crap but everything balances out in the With respect,
Oli Le Lievre 25:01
just run it over five or 10 years and just the average. That's it. That's it. I want to ask you about the different natural disasters and things you guys have had three areas. And now I'm telling the pessimist.
Speaker 2 25:16
I have friends in Victoria and South Australia, particularly through Angus, and I've just rang them up the other day, because this has meant to be countrywide this dry, but of course, they're still having quite a good season. So I rang him up the other day. And so I'm just letting you know that we can't be friends anymore. No more contact, you're not talking to me no more pictures of cows on green grass, because you know, it's over. So in the space of six months, or is actually a year, we had three natural disasters declared here. So we had this bizarre mini tornado, like out of the blue that knocked down trees and fences and just flattened sort of 500 metres section through our place. And that was declared a natural disaster. And then we had the drought. And then we had the bushfires. So we had the three in the year, you know, and looking back on that, in hindsight, that was huge. And it was brutal. At the time you just going I know, there's other people worse off. And I think that's what farmers do, to get them through. But I think you need also need to acknowledge that there are times in life when it's really tough. And that was really tough. Yeah.
Oli Le Lievre 26:17
And were you involved with rural age at that time?
Speaker 2 26:20
No, I wasn't involved in rural life at that time. But we had all our cattle back then and in confinement, and we were reliant on we bought a paddy canola, it was coming up every week. And one of the people that had organised it said to me, just watch this guy, he might send you a bad bunch of hay or something like that. Just make sure the strings are the same colour, the same amount, whatever, make sure you're getting your paddock. Anyway, at the time of joining, which was a critical time for the cows in the confinement. He sent us the slider Hi, that was basically the cows wouldn't eat it that was starving. And that wouldn't eat it. It was from rancid. And it was joining time. And one of the guys that I was on the board with it at Angus Australia, I must have said something to him. Anyway, he was in South Australia. And Perry Ghana is his name. And within two days, I had loads of high heat. Like he just donated US a $17,000 load of hay didn't want anything for it. And I was just so blown away. So you can be absolutely awful to me and I'll be fine. When I say fine, I'll be fine. But behind me, I just go places. So that was just the one of the nicest things anyone's ever done for us. When I found out about rule eight, I knew that that was what they were doing for other people. And the other thing. And so I wanted to be a part and I wanted to give back. And so that's why I joined rule eight. But the other thing that happened as well as we ran out of water here. So one of the we were draining all the dams to feed the cows, what are the cows in the foot in the confinement area, and the bores had cut out, which we didn't realise here. So we're draining all these dams. And we're getting to the end of those and one of the dams actually backfield into our water tank in the house. So we had no water as well. So I relied provided us clean water. And I mean, just that. Just that kindness, as I said, it's it's just the most powerful thing. And I knew that that was that I wanted to help other people that way. And that's why I joined rule eight.
Oli Le Lievre 28:11
So what have you learned about the impact that rollout has, since you've jumped on the board?
Speaker 2 28:16
Yeah, and it's that it's that power of human kindness. So you know, you're not going to solve their financial problems overnight. But just knowing that someone cares is profound, deeply profound, and so important. And it's in its own entirety, that you don't really need anything else you can get through to the next day and the next day and the next day. So now that in real life, we've also moved on from C, you know, to sort of disaster relief, and we've moved on to sort of resilience for the next drought type thing. But a huge part of that, that we've been working on really hard is actually that mental well being. And so we've got counsellors all over the country now. And I think that that is the most important work that we're doing. And teaching people about mental well being and keeping, and that there's someone there that cares. And there is hope. And there is kindness. Yeah.
Oli Le Lievre 29:05
I don't think it's, it's so it's so important. And it's so easy for people to forget in the moment and then cycle, it's little things which can have big impacts, like the unintended consequence of unintended impact probably is a better word of this podcast, but I was chatting to someone a while back, and in our community survey, they hit came through that, like they said, or sometimes when I'm out fencing or out the backpacks or in the hills or whatever it is, like the voices on the podcast that the only voices that I hear during the day. Yeah. And and I think like what came out of the I'm referring to is so much that Norco, National Farmers Federation mental wellbeing, kind of the state of wellbeing for farmers was that 27% of farmers are saying the biggest negative impact on their mental health is loneliness. And it's like well actually, there's little things that we can do like this chat now might actually just keep someone company in the space, but they want to hear another voice.
Speaker 2 29:56
Look, it is absolutely huge. And I know that there's this common line people are just Pick up the phone call someone. But when you're in that state, it's really hard to do. And sometimes, like you said, the only voices that are coming through or maybe, you know, turn on that podcast, too, is so you don't feel lonely. It's so important when it's so hard to pick up the phone and then maybe then that gives you that little bit of uplift, that you might be able to pick up the phone and you might be able to bring your neighbour and just say, this is crap. You know, you don't have to say anymore and you don't have to fix it. They don't have to fix it. You just have to get someone to acknowledge we get or you to acknowledge where you are. Yeah,
Oli Le Lievre 30:32
and verbalise it. Yeah. And you
Speaker 2 30:35
realise that you're not alone. That's like, you know, was my, my next door neighbour colleague, just knowing that we weren't alone and just just having a drink and laugh about it? Oh, my God, here we are. Can you believe this? You know, it was huge for both of us.
Oli Le Lievre 30:49
So I've got one other topic I want to ask you about? Well, I don't want to feel like we keep coming back to negatives, because I think what we have these, I guess these inflection points, but then there's actually lots of positives that are coming from it. But yeah, I've heard a story. And it was at a dinner party. So you'd had all these events and things happening, but there was a photographer, or someone like that, who had been an American, and someone had been looking at the role that farmers played and, and how they were positioning farmers was that farmers were really degrading the planet, which we know is just
Speaker 2 31:19
not true. Yeah, this is the big one for me. So we're after we'd had those three natural disasters, as I was talking about stealing, and I had an Look, I know all this stuff. I know you're meant to get away, you know, told other people worked as a facilitator, you know, you've got to have your breaks, you've got to, but you know, Stu and I had worked, I think every day for 18 months or something, and it was a friend's 50th down in near Canberra, went on this, this lovely event in the garden, we took our camper trailer we went you can because we could afford a motel room. Anyway, we sit down for lunch. And because I'm the type of person that you know, I love talking to strangers. I love talking to anyone. So sat me down with these complete strangers, like to my mates on a table over there. I'm like, I'll go talk to them a bit, sitting next to this guy, and we're eating. And I just remember him and I probably made him into some sort of caricature over time. But anyway, he was wearing a white linen suit and he had blonde tips through his hair and stuff and quite glamorous for a man. And he said to me, so what do you do? And I said, I said, I'm a farmer, and he's eating and he puts down his knife and fork. And he goes, it's people like you that are ruining the planet. And I'm like, I was just defenceless because I've gone on, I think it was just probably my lowest ebb and I had nothing left to say to him and I just all they are just remember spitting out like, oh, you know, we're working for the environment. We knew like you guys sign up. He goes, you've got no idea what you're doing. You said you're ruining the planet. And he was working on a documentary at the time with James Cameron. He said he was a camera guy. And he said, you know, we're putting out this documentary and stuff. And anyway, his fiancee was sitting next to me. And I just was flabbergasted. And like I said, I didn't finish my meal, I just got out, went back to our campsite. And I just sat there in this mute silence, because in the back of my mind, every all the time of being a foreigner was, to me a noble pursuit. And this is just had this realisation that that's not how we were perceived anymore. And that really gutted me, I've got to say that was very hurtful and very profound. For me. It was that point I sort of went, Well, I we're doing damage, I've got to work that out. And if so, if we're doing damage, you got to face it full on and say, Well, maybe we're not noble anymore. But at that point, I found that book, which was dirt to soil by Gabe Brown. And I realised at that point that there were things that farmers are doing that are not working well for the environment. But there is another way and it actually in that new way. And it was just the timing was amazing, because we listened to it as a podcast as a family. Right at the end of the drought, drought hadn't broken yet. But we actually realised that growing cattle and pastures can actually be part of the solution to climate change. And it was just, not only was it a huge breakthrough for us in terms of what we could do with the farm, and how we could have long term financial stability and family happiness. It was also oh my gosh, we've also got the trifecta, we can actually do something for the planet as well and have a noble pursuit again. And for me that that was that was huge. And so that's kept us going as a family. So coming into this next year. I think that's the backbone that's holding us all really strong now is that we do have a part in the future and it's a really important one.
Oli Le Lievre 34:32
And do you think that like also, I guess that sense of the optimism, but then also the facts and science that you guys have learned through that process going? Well actually, there might be some short term pain but it's for the greater good.
Speaker 2 34:45
I didn't know what we didn't know. And you know, we were there. We poisoned the pasture three times around to put it into fallow so we could put in industrial or improved highly improved highly fertilised pasture during the drought and you know, every time As a hint of rain, we kept spraying it. So we sprayed it for like, two years. And then the irony is that when eventually did rain, there was nothing left to hold the soil together because we killed everything we've nuked everything we killed not only the life above the ground, but the life below the ground. So the wind came and there was nothing to hold the soil together, and the wind blew away the topsoil and then what was left when it did rain, ironically, it all just went onto the road onto our main road, much to the delight of all our neighbours picking it up for their vegetable gardens. But yeah, we didn't know what we were doing was wrong. And I know there are so many farmers that don't know the things that they're doing, that aren't helping. And, you know, I'm really glad that we learned what we learned. And now I'm, we've actually grown topsoil here, and we've got a sustainable, we've got a soil on the ground, like we're feeding, we've got so much livestock under the ground. And we know that that's going to hold us in good stead going forward. And the other thing is, we're no longer feeding the plants, we're now feeding the soil. So the soil feeds the plant, and it's cheaper, and it's better. Like, I'm sounding like a snake oil salesman. And that's what my family say, remember, like you're getting into that billet phase. But it's exciting, because it's not only better for everything, it's cheaper. Yeah. And we can't keep affording to pay all this huge imports, because the price is going through the roof. So for me, it's just a win win.
Oli Le Lievre 36:25
So if you're at that 50th Now I'm sitting across from the, like, blond haired fella, like, Would you be in a different position now? No,
Speaker 2 36:34
I still put down my knife and fork, but I'd say Mike, put your seatbelt on because I've got something to tell you. And hopefully, let's see that guy, I don't know in my head now whether he's fictional even. But you know, I want to see that guy. Again. I'm not angry about it. Like they're just, they're trying to do the right thing to everyone's trying to do the right thing. But there's so much misinformation out there. And my concern now is that we're not organised enough as a group as farmers to tell the story. There are many in smaller groups of farmers all going oh, my gosh, we can do this, we can do this, we can do this, we can be part of the solution. I'm just hoping that we get one spearhead voice that speaks to the people because I went through that one of the 10th most visited sites in the world the other day at Singapore, the gardens, they're down on the harbour. And as I walked out, it said, it's got a big sign, it says what you can do for the planet. And one of the things on this list was eat less meat. And I was like, ah, you know, we've got a product there that, let's just say can be part of the solution to climate change. And the way that they work in well managed pastures and help those pastures seek more carbon out of the atmosphere. But they're also taking a product, which is plants, which people can't eat. It's the most abundant plant in the world. And they're upgrading it to the most nutrient dense form of protein in the planet, which the world needs. And yet you've got this misinformation, they're saying people less meat. Whereas I want people to know that it's actually not only part of the solution for climate change, but part of the solution for feeding the world and providing them nutrients instead of just carbohydrates and calories.
Oli Le Lievre 38:12
So if you had a magic wand, what would you do with it? What would you implement?
Speaker 2 38:17
I would get all of those guys in a room, they all those big businesses in the world in a room that are running those, and I would I would come up with the truth about beef. I'd invite them to ask questions, because I think that as an industry that we can answer it or not just beef, but farmers. And I would make people pay attention departments because, you know, some of the forecasts are, we've only got 60 harvests left. You know, unless we start valuing our farmers and preserving our farmland and working all together on it. You know, there's there's a real urgency there. So my magic wand would to get all those people in a room and get them on board.
Oli Le Lievre 38:54
So I've got one other question, Erica, and we asked everyone who comes on the podcast, and you had the chance to go and chat to your 10 students about opportunities in a career in agriculture. What would you tell them? And why should they consider it?
Speaker 2 39:08
I say this one, heavy hearted, I just know that there's a lot of obstacles there for the younger kids trying to come onto the land because I talked to a number of young people, usually young men and women with with families that don't have land and desperately want to do it. And I see how much drive and passion that they've got for it being not stopping them. All they feel is stopping when I said they don't have land. But what I'm trying to say to them is you've got this other end of the spectrum of people that are older, who don't want to sell the farm and go and live in town. And then you guys don't have land, they don't have someone to work it. So what I would say to those guys in your town if they don't have a family, farm or something that could be theirs and in the future. The first thing I say to them is if I go out and earn the right, go out and do something else, go out and broaden your horizons travel the world and have something that you can bring back to a business, if it's going to be a family business, or family farm. If you don't have land, I would say, look at the opportunities that there are in share farming or leasing, and building a business from there. But I would also say go into it with your eyes wide open. So if this isn't what you love, and live and breathe and want to, you know, raise a family doing that, then be aware. It's a really, it's a really hard, but rewarding career. Yeah, and it's no longer a vocation, it's profession.
Oli Le Lievre 40:36
And a noble one, and noble profession, I think would miss the opportunity if we didn't talk about very quickly. So world Angus forum 2025, it's insane to think that's actually going to come around so quickly. But yeah, what is it? And I guess, what's the purpose of the event that you guys are holding in Brizzy?
Speaker 2 40:52
Yeah, so look, our theme is blue for a better planet. So it's sort of almost better be for a better planet. So we're looking at not only the technical aspects around beef quality, and why beef is so good for you, and how can we can improve beef on both the environmental and genetic scale, but we're also looking at the role of beef in the environment and in climate change, and in carbon sequestration, as well as sort of methods of of doing that, as well as methods of accounting for it, because Australia is leading the rest of the world. And so, you know, Angus, Australia itself is looking at ways to reduce me paying in genetically in beef cattle. We're also, as I said, looking at sort of some radian practices, and some, yeah, just all technical aspects around climate change as well. And what we
Oli Le Lievre 41:38
can do well, and the website is now live, so people can go and check that out, we'll include a link in the show,
Speaker 2 41:42
check that out. But I just said last night, I was talking to all these people that this world Angus Secretariat, I said, you know, mostly what they're interested in, as well as the cattle is out all the things that can kill you in Australia. So yesterday, we had a meeting, and I said to them, I said, Guys, we need that guy with the snake pit actually had the world Angus forum so that people can come and be educated about Australian snakes and stuff. So we will be doing that they'll be going to Australian zoo, you know,
Oli Le Lievre 42:13
like the tourism into a little bit of tourism
Speaker 2 42:15
into it, because my son like I can't come to Australia, and I might get bitten by a snake or a spider. And I said, No, you're white. And they said, Have you got snakes at your place? No way. But just to me, like, No, it's not coming, you know. But yeah, they're fascinated with Australia. They're fascinated, because we've got one of the harshest climates in the world, and one of the best genetic, best beef products in the world. So they're coming to see how we actually managed to do that.
Oli Le Lievre 42:42
Gosh, we have a bit of fun with that one, I think in the lead up,
Unknown Speaker 42:45
and probably wine. They're probably here for our wine as well. So
Oli Le Lievre 42:49
plenty of reasons to come. Look. Wine coffee,
Unknown Speaker 42:52
the three things we do really well. Yeah,
Oli Le Lievre 42:55
unsated. Oh, yes.
Unknown Speaker 42:56
Seafood. Absolutely. Well,
Oli Le Lievre 42:59
Erica, thank you so much for joining us for a bit of a chat. I know you've literally just hopped off the plane. So thank you for making the time and enjoy settling back in and grabbing those reins back off your children.
Speaker 2 43:09
I'm quite happy sitting here talking to you. And they're doing a great job out there. So.
Oli Le Lievre 43:16
Well, that's it for another episode from us here at humans of agriculture. We hope you're enjoying these podcasts. And well if you're not, let us know hit us up at Hello at humans of agriculture.com. Get in touch with any guest recommendations topics, or things you'd like us to talk and get curious about. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. Right subscribe, review it. Any feedback is absolutely awesome. And we really do welcome it. So look after yourselves. Stay safe. stay sane. We'll see you next time.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai