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An 11-week podcast designed as a companion resource to the Core Series at Chapel Pointe Church. Through deep theological conversations with pastors from our church, our goal is to help you build a deeper understanding of the core truths of Christianity and apply them to your life. From the Bible and Jesus to salvation and the church, our prayer is that you don't just grow in knowledge but that you gain a deeper appreciation for the love, grace, and movement of God in your life. For more resources, visit chapel-pointe.org/core-series.
Well, hey, thanks for joining us for another edition of the Core Podcast where we get to talk about what we believe as a church, those things that are core Orthodox and the things that that we know make us distinctive as a local church here at Chapel Point. And so we're glad you guys are joining us for the conversation. I'm really excited to get to sit here with miss Ramsey Smith, one of our worship leaders, a Granville worship leader coming soon. Super exciting. And then she helps lead all of our kind of gathering coordination pieces.
Luke Bilberry:So thanks for all the work you do. And got pastor Tyler over here leading the discipleship initiative, and it's just been fun to see. And even I think you two in particular as you guys really helped shape and and work a lot of details in the back end, how God is using this to serve our church. And that's the topic of our conversation. Maybe let's start there.
Luke Bilberry:Oh, and then just because I like to name people because I like people, we got Cyrus and Carson in the room. So if you hear anybody yell out anything or we're asking for help out, but that's who's in the room. And so if you don't know Cyrus or Carson, you're missing out. They're two awesome fellas. And so that's who we got here today for this conversation.
Luke Bilberry:But I'd love for maybe you guys some anecdotal stories of how just even this conversation on Core Podcast, because I know you've been just blessed by some of the feedback you've gotten and the same thing you Ramsey, Hey, someone said this and this is how it's helping them grow. Because at the end of the day, I think that's what we're running after as a local church and why we're doing this, is so that the church would be equipped and grow and strengthened. So I don't know if you guys have some fun stories you want to share off the bat about the church being the church.
Tyler Perrott:I can start. I think it's unique in this aspect that I would say a Sunday, there's not a Sunday that goes by that someone doesn't stop me and say, Hey, thank you so much for this. Or, we've really appreciated the core resourcing. But I would go back to a conversation that probably had a month ago with someone who, they said, I think it was in our episode about Jesus. And they said, you know, this podcast, the way that you discussed it, the questions that you asked, the format that you guys had, it stirred my affections to a deeper love
Luke Bilberry:for Jesus.
Tyler Perrott:And I think that that whenever we think about part of this is is we want, yes, want people to be greater informed, want them to have greater accuracy, but ultimately our hope is that that information, these conversations begin to shape them in ways affections just grow more and more for Jesus. And ultimately that they desire to go, man, I desire to know and love and become more like Christ. That's what we're after
Luke Bilberry:with this. Yeah, that's so true. Love that. That's cool. Yeah,
Ramsay Smith:I've had a couple of people come up and stop me, but there was one lady that stopped me and she was just saying that she's newer to Christianity, newer to the faith, to church. And the Core Podcasts have been able to kind of break down some of those doctrines in a way that she's able to understand. And she just kept saying, thank you so much. Like, I'm able to understand it better because of these these podcasts. So that was really cool.
Luke Bilberry:Well, I think I think that's why this this conversation in particular about the church is kind of a unique one because this there's a lot of thoughts and feelings that come from that. So so people, you know, would say that she's newer to Christianity. She's newer to the church. Some people, they equate different things that church is a building. It's a it's a certain type of group of people.
Luke Bilberry:And maybe let's just start there. Even picking up a little bit at where where Josh, who's one of our elders led led us this past week to open the word of God, and I think you did a great job of helping us unpack a bunch about who the church is, what is it, but let's start there and just define it so that we're all on the same page. What would you guys say is the church?
Tyler Perrott:You wanna go, Ramsey?
Ramsay Smith:Yeah. Yeah. Believe the church is a gathered body of believers. God Jesus established it in the New Testament. And we as a church are called to glorify God.
Ramsay Smith:We have a missional aspect to the church to go and make disciples. And we're called to equip each other to raise up, Oh, what's the verse that talks about equipping the saints for work of ministry. It's the training, the encouraging. Yeah.
Luke Bilberry:Got the number. Come on.
Tyler Perrott:Look at that. I think though that right? That's the aspect I think that that ecclesia, that called aspect to be able to say that there's this gathered body of people. And I just loved how Josh laid that out yesterday. The aspect of thinking about, hey, we are we're the body of Christ.
Tyler Perrott:Like we are connected to one another, but we're ultimately connected to Christ. And I think in a hyper individualized world, the church as a body, as a people, as a community stands in opposition to maybe this hyper individualism that we find ourselves in. And so I think that there's some uniqueness, I think, that can come with that in the sense that we can take our own like individualized preferences and place that on the church rather than going, Oh, how do we live as kind of a counter people, a counter culture of people who are going, yes, we're more sell we want to pursue what we desire more than anything else, but we're also the loneliest, we're the saddest, and the church has the opportunity to be able to go, man, how do we actually become this very light in the darkness? This aspect to be able to say, come be a part of these people and look at the way that they live. There's something unique about them and who they worship.
Tyler Perrott:I want to go and be a part of those people.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. Oh, and I love that's why I think that going back to the original languages is really, really important when we're seeing that. And that word church is ekklesia. It's an assembly of people. And I think about that all the time even as it's I know what we mean when we say the church, but I'll even find myself falling into this moment.
Luke Bilberry:I'll tell my kids, hey, we're going to church. And what we're actually talking about in that moment is a location In
Ramsay Smith:a building.
Luke Bilberry:In a building. Yeah. You know? And so I've been trying to and I'm I don't do this the best, but I try to even say, when I'm coming to work, I'm saying the kids were like, where are you going? Well, I'm going to work.
Luke Bilberry:Where I know previous versions and times, I was like, well, I'm going to church. And what I'm saying is I'm going to a building to do this work, to serve the church. But really that reality is the assembly, the gathered believers, those who confess that Jesus is their Lord, they are now indwelt by the Holy Spirit and that is the church. And so maybe, Tyler, correct me if I'm wrong, but the church, if we gathered all on this piece of property without four walls and asshound system, that would be the would be the church. That would be the ecclesia.
Luke Bilberry:Right? And so there are these functions that we step into then as a church. And so maybe why don't we highlight a few of those, like, just foundational pieces, and then maybe we can dive into some of the questions that people may wrestle with. Because one of the things that I think Josh also did really well is he highlighted a personal story that there can be and I don't I'm bummed that this is like a taboo word, but the idea of church hurts.
Tyler Perrott:Yeah.
Luke Bilberry:And so they put it on an institution, they put it on a building, they put it on an organization, but what they're actually saying is, I've been hurt by somebody that has a religious connections, and we have the work to live, in the way of Jesus so that the name of Jesus is made known appropriately so that people can come to faith. That's what we'll be praying for. But let's let's kinda backtrack a little bit on those. What would be some of the functions of the church when we gather as the believers? What what is our purpose?
Ramsay Smith:Well, I think of first Corinthians right off the bat. I love all the metaphors that scripture talks about in describing the church. And I love the one in one Corinthians that talks about the church being a body of believers. Because a body has purpose, it functions, it's alive, it's a living thing that functions and moves. And we are called as believers to be a part of the body.
Ramsay Smith:So we each have specific elements that make up the body. The spiritual gifts, one Corinthians is like that. That's the passage. Those passages talk about using the spiritual gifts within the church. And so a big function of that is, okay, you have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you who gives and apportions, spiritual gifts as He wills.
Ramsay Smith:And those are to be used in the church for like with your specific skill set and for that specific season that He gives those to you. And so we were talking about this earlier, but you I do a disservice to my church body and to myself if I'm not using those spiritual gifts in the church.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. Yeah. So that idea of body that there's multiple systems at play. So when you think about how our bodies are wired, creating the imago dei, and then we can get this this picture of illustration, right? There's the the skeletal system, right?
Luke Bilberry:The structure pieces, there's the muscular system. There's the nervous system. There's all these different pieces that are that make our bodies function and live in the way that God designed it. And so if God is that meticulous in designing a human body, how much how beautiful is that? And more is this gathered, this body that represents the living Lord Jesus Christ.
Luke Bilberry:Like that that's a cool way to think about it that stir our affections. Like, okay, God, you've you've designed the church even in all of its brokenness and messiness because that's us. And so, of course, he's reveling the story of redemption. What are some of those other functions and pieces that you would you would say, pastor Tyler?
Tyler Perrott:You know, I think, we talked about this actually about a month ago at men's night, and I'm just gonna read this passage out of Ephesians four. It says, To equip his people, talking about pastors, teachers, for the works of service so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach full unity in the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God becoming mature, attaining the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. That we are as a body designed to mature one another. That we that the great call is that we are called to look like Jesus, but also that part of the work of the church. That's the thing I love about this is it's not just to go, hey, the pastors are to do this, the pastors are to equip so that the church can build itself up into fullness of maturity in the image and likeness of Jesus.
Tyler Perrott:And I think that is such a vital aspect of like church health church, church vibrance, but that's part of what the church is called to do. It's part of the work that we're called to put in this to be encouraging, building, calling people into the image and likeness and fullness of Jesus.
Ramsay Smith:Yeah. Doesn't Hebrews talk about and all the more, like gathering and all the more as the day approaches? Like, yeah, continuing that.
Luke Bilberry:Right. Well, and that was, know, in in COVID, I think the scripture was taken out of context a little bit. But idea, do not forsake the assembly. Don't forsake the ecclesia, the gathering of believers because it's in those spaces that the church is built up. We are edified, strengthened in our faith, and at the same time, then we're able to be to go on mission in a different way.
Luke Bilberry:Right? So we're able to gather and scatter. And I love that that's a a way sometimes often people talk about the church and their purpose and their function is we have this moment of gathering to worship God, to glorify him, to make much of him, to have conversations, to be taught, to train ourselves, to be equipped, to go do the work of ministry. And so I love that aspect that wherever we are, we we are the church. No matter what's going on, whether it's a moment in time that you gather for a worship service or you are out in your workplace or kids and students are in their schools, that's where we get to live out and work out our faith individually and collectively is kind of a fun way to think about that, is the the church gathered and scattered, sent out.
Luke Bilberry:So I don't if that's a helpful framework for us to think through even moving into some of that function aspect and the purpose of the church.
Tyler Perrott:But I think too, I think it's valuable to to be mindful of that. The reason that we gather weekly is to worship. And because like the Sunday morning when we gather together, that's a huge aspect of our discipleship, both in what we experience, but also what it forces us to prioritize as people to be able to go, hey, if I'm going to make it a commitment to be with God's people, that's going to take a required due diligence, intentionality on my part, to be able to say, I'm showing up to this. And also, Hey, I'm going to orient my heart and orient my mind and orient my time towards where I'm putting Christ as king. And I'm saying Christ is of utmost importance.
Tyler Perrott:And I'm going to orient our whole life and our whole family around this being true. And so there's more at stake whenever we say, ah, it's not important to be a part of Sunday morning. It's actually a vital aspect of our discipleship and of what it means to be followers of Jesus.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. That's really good. Well, there's this aspect too. So when we talk about the church, there's kind of two veins to think about this. Right?
Luke Bilberry:There is the idea of the universal church, meaning churches across the world, and there's this idea of the local church. What are some ways that you guys have had to wrestle with that when it comes to understanding what the church is? Because I know, Ramsey, you and I have had conversations of, like, I'm trying to discern what is good, true, and beautiful that the church should be, whether it's a big church or a small church or your entire you know, the way that you think through your ministry, you're trying to we wanna structure everything on scripture, like our our our our doctrines, our core orthodoxy built on the scriptures and funneled through, help help our church navigate this idea of the the bigness of the church and the smallness of the church.
Ramsay Smith:Go ahead.
Tyler Perrott:Man, there's a lot there. Just looped it out. That just like a nice easy soft ball there in the sense.
Luke Bilberry:Listen, I believe in you. You got this my man.
Tyler Perrott:Well, mean, think that there I think there's a few things that are really important for us to always be mindful of like whenever we're thinking about this conversation. Would say the first aspect is that of recognizing that the church is bigger than us. And I think that's a huge piece to be able to recognize that there is a global church that Christ is committed to building up of the church. And I think that there's such a there's such a beauty in that aspect. And I think even Josh talked about that about, hey, you been to another country or another place?
Tyler Perrott:You go, you feel a kindredness to people. And that's a 100% true of being able to go, man, that I think that there's a humility that comes into play whenever you live with that mindset of being able to go, oh man, God is so much bigger than what's even happening in the midst of our gatherings. And that should actually compel us to worship again, fostering that heart posture, oh my goodness, God, what are you doing in the midst of this, both here locally, but also all around the world that we are part of something far greater that has spanned over two thousand years to be able to recognize that the church has sustained. Christ has sustained his church. But then also, think there's a recognition to be able to challenge and always be evaluating to look at to go, hey, we have the right orthodoxy, but we have the right orthopraxy.
Tyler Perrott:Are we practicing what it looks like to be the church and to be able to ask ourselves and stepping into that whenever I'm thinking about ministry, that's what I'm thinking about is this aspect of going, what do we see modeled throughout scripture as things that need to be evident and vibrant in the midst of what we're doing? And I think even if I had to go like really practical, even in the discipleship zone this last year, one of the shifts that we made is that we added just a greater, more robust intention about daily devotion in God's word, both in our groups and other environments. Because whenever I look at Acts two, what
Luke Bilberry:do I see? I see
Tyler Perrott:they were devoted. They were devoted to one another. They were devoted to God's word. I was like, well, we in our practice can't assume that that's gonna happen. We need to be a church that's intentional about building and cultivating and expecting that within our biblical communities that people are engaging in God's word, having conversations that are centered on what they're learning, and then also sharpening and shaping each other because that's the work of maturity that we get to do together.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. Yeah. How would you process that, Ms. Ramsey?
Ramsay Smith:Yeah. Well, I love what you said. Like the bigness of God is revealed when we think about the big c church, the universal church, whatever language you use there. When I went overseas this past winter, that was like one of the coolest things there was these believers who church does not look like the Western church here because it's not welcomed. And so they're meeting in homes and it's somewhat secret.
Ramsay Smith:And yet they love the same Lord. They follow the same Lord that we follow and they worship Him in the same way. And it just goes to show how big our God is and how unifying the church is. That it's that it will prevail. Jesus said that like, on this rock I will build my church and and it will will storm the gates of hell.
Ramsay Smith:Like, come on.
Tyler Perrott:Mhmm.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. Well, I think even just to give clarity to that because, like, God is at work and it looks so different in different contexts. Like like the trip that you were talking about that that I know it was really it caused you to ask some questions because it looks very different than our context here in West Michigan. Right? That they're having to hide, you know, they can't use sound system, you know, like, have to be really cautious how they do it.
Luke Bilberry:Then here we are, a church that gathers that has to help, you know, has a parking lot team, you know, and they're greeting them. Like that, those are very can feel almost opposing things. But if God is big enough to work all things together for the good of those who love him and call according to his purpose, that means his church as well, that we all get to make different connections. And it reminds me this number I don't remember, but Paul talks as he writes to a church that, right, I, Paul, I, water, Apollos, know, he plants his like, there's there's that passage Yeah. That God makes he yields the growth in that.
Luke Bilberry:And just reminds me to you in this moment, I want to just kind of name something that a foundational creed, a statement of belief that the church has is is always been one called the Apostles' Creed. And that's something maybe we can, you know, dive in deeper too, Tyler, because it's so fun and fascinating to know where and how this is. But I'm just gonna read it for us. I think it's a good thing that the church gathers around a set of beliefs. Right?
Luke Bilberry:And so the apostles creed says, I believe in God the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell, and the third day he rose again from the dead. He ascended in heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty. From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
Luke Bilberry:I believe in the Holy Spirit the and one I want to key in on here, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. So these are some foundational beliefs. These are core doctrines. This is core orthodoxy for us as Christians, and one of those is in there that for some people, if you're newer to the faith or not, it says the Holy Catholic Church. And what that word Catholic means in the lowercase c and the definition of it, it just means the universal church, the big church, a common theme throughout them.
Luke Bilberry:And so that's when they says the Holy Catholic Church, like, that's not about just the Roman Catholic Church, that's saying, I believe in the church. I believe in the ecclesia that Jesus established, and he chooses the church as his plan a to accomplish his mission Mhmm. To make disciples, to to advance the kingdom of God. Right? And so I just think that's helpful because I've often had that question that people will hear that statement like, wait, we're Catholic?
Luke Bilberry:No. No. Let's talk about what that word means that there's a very big church that God has work at work across the world, whether in underground churches and like a country you were talking about or in mega churches across the world. And so that's a fun fun way to think about that, that God is big enough for all those things, and he's big enough for all those different types of expression, which is really cool.
Tyler Perrott:Yeah. And I think it's unique for that that like, yes, we are Catholic in the wholeness of the church, right? We believe in that whole aspect of it. And I think it's a valuable piece that we have to And I think that that should give us maybe some posture of humility as we think about ourselves as well as to be able to sit here and say, Oh, the church has existed far beyond this localized context that we find ourselves in. Or maybe beyond what I'm familiar in or I grew up in that there's a willingness that we should have a posture to look towards the church, both in its history, but also in its current global aspect to be able to go, Oh, there's probably more than what I know about how people could do church or what the church could look like.
Tyler Perrott:And I think that we have to always keep that in mind. We have, we all grow familiar and comfortable with what we know and a willingness to be able to be challenged to go to that moment where, like you did Ramsey, able to say, Oh, this is different. What do I do with this? It's kind of broken some paradigms of some things. And, but that doesn't mean that it broke the paradigm of the church.
Tyler Perrott:It just expanded your viewpoint Yeah. Of what it could look
Luke Bilberry:Well, that, I mean, is even a fun way to think about expanded my viewpoint. Yeah. It opened a bigness to more of who God is and how he's shaping us. So when we think about the church, I maybe wanna kinda move kinda to, like, the local church level. So us here at Chapel Point because that's you know, hopefully, this podcast is serving our local church.
Luke Bilberry:That's the intent. That's the design is to come alongside people that we get to rub shoulders with, that we get to worship with on on a weekly basis. But one of the famous passages is is obviously Acts chapter two that talks about and we can use this as a blueprint. And so I'm curious about how you guys see us living out some of these aspects of of Acts chapter two. And it says, and they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers, and all came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done throughout through the apostles.
Luke Bilberry:And all who believe were together and had all things in common, and they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all to all as any had need. And day by day attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, praising God and having favor with all people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved. So I'm just curious from y'all's vantage point using the scriptures, which I even love how this it's modeling our Bible study. Right?
Luke Bilberry:That that we look and see how God spoke to the original audience and its original play, and then we begin to move to this process of interpreting it, understanding it, and then applying it to our daily lives, therefore our local church. So what are some ways that you see us interpreting and applying what the church in Acts was doing to what we're doing here as a local church Chapel Point?
Tyler Perrott:I think the first one there, I think this aspect of devoting themselves, this aspect of whenever we're thinking about this call of being a disciple, the call to abide, serve, share, give, multiply, that there's this ultimate aspect of devotion that we're trying to step into to be able to go ultimately what you devote your energy, what you devote your time to, that's going to ultimately shape like where you live and how you, that's why we call all the time for people to step into our Bible studies or our small groups or on serve teams, because we want to help people cultivate a heart of devotion that they're devoted to the church, they're devoted to the people to be able to grow, to utilize their giftedness, to grow into fullness of maturity, that we want to be a people that's always calling people to greater devotion. That I think sometimes it can be easy. It can be a temptation for us to want to go, Oh, but they're too busy. They've got other things going on. We'll settle for less than what God has designed the church to be.
Tyler Perrott:And I think we as a church, we often have to be reminded that this is the greatest thing that someone could devote themselves to, to Christ and his body. That is a great devotion. It is worthy of any time. It's worthy of any ask. It's worthy of all of that.
Tyler Perrott:Any sacrifice that you have to give, it is well worth it. And I think we have to keep that in front of us to be able to go, it should matter because it does. And need to be a people that are truly devoted, not just being convenience. To be able to go, well, can I be I'll do it when it's convenient to me? No, we have to be a people to go, how do I make this a priority?
Tyler Perrott:Whether that's a Sunday morning worship, whether that's joining on serving, whether that's joining in with biblical community in some form or fashion. We need to be a devoted people to one another.
Luke Bilberry:That's really good. That's great.
Ramsay Smith:Yeah. Mean, that's taking somebody from complacency or passivity, that's a word, to like action and participation. So, I think that's a really big thing. Something I'm thinking about as you're talking through that is more practical of what I've experienced as somebody who has kind of stepped away from my my family to to come here and work here. Mhmm.
Ramsay Smith:My family looks a little different.
Luke Bilberry:I was hoping you're gonna say this. Go for it. Yes.
Tyler Perrott:Okay. Good.
Ramsay Smith:And the Lord's been teaching me a lot about what church family looks like in my state of life as
Luke Bilberry:a single
Ramsay Smith:woman stepping into kind of a bigger church context. And something I've shared with you is in Psalms. There's one verse and you can easily just kind of brush right past it. Psalm 60 eight:six says, He puts the lonely in families. And that's what I've experienced here at Chapel The practical side of that, like He has put me in a family.
Ramsay Smith:Like I can get all choked up talking about this, but he has been so faithful just in doing that for me. Because he has promised community. Like he created the church for community, for people like me. And so answering that prayer through people who have invited me over for lunches after church, when it could totally be traditional family time, but I'm included in on that.
Tyler Perrott:And I think it's so important for us to think through this aspect of like the church is the eternal family of God, right? So whether you come from a wonderful family or a broken family, our eternal family, the family we spend, we will spend all of eternity with are, is the church. Like this is, these as Josh said, these are our brothers and sisters. This is our family. This is the, this is the family bought by blood.
Tyler Perrott:Right? And that's something that we have to be reminded of is that this isn't just merely a, oh, I go, I attend church with them. We should be walking around going, this is my family. How am I a part of this family? What does that look like?
Luke Bilberry:Right. Isn't that what Jesus even tells? Like, Jesus is talking, they're like, hey, your mothers and brothers are here. And he's like, my mother and brothers are remembered as the will of God. That's the ecclesia, the family.
Luke Bilberry:It's not saying blood family doesn't matter, but it's saying at the end of the day, it's a redeemed family. And hopefully your blood family is your church family, your ekklesia as well. That would be the prayer and the hope. But even like as you're talking, in our context, it would be really hard. It says they devoted themselves the apostles teaching to the word of God.
Luke Bilberry:Right? That's what we're hearing. And they had fellowship. We have fellowship with people hanging out. We have different opportunities for people to gather.
Luke Bilberry:We have our student groups, men's, women's, all these different things, our college ministry. There's places where they gather and they find community in different aspects like that. But it says into the breaking the bread and the prayers. It's really hard to break bread in our church context, you know, like to sit down and have a meal. But what you're talking about, Ramsey, that's a smaller expression.
Luke Bilberry:One part of that body saying, hey, Ramsay, why don't you come over, have a meal with us? Let's share life together. Let's be reminded of the truths. I mean, I think that's what that's why I think mealtime is so precious with your blood family or with any family, with anyone you ever get to share a meal with. Because in that moment you get to break bread together and remind ourselves that Christ's body was broken, his blood was poured out so that we could have and live in the community that we were made to.
Luke Bilberry:That's why we see the marriage supper of the lamb, you know, in Revelation. Carson was talking about that, you know, before we started rolling it, how there's something beautiful about that, this marriage of the lamb where the body comes all together. It's because it's this meal and we sit down and remember the the body broken and the blood poured out so that we can be who we're meant to be, the church. Right? The the ecclesia gathered together.
Luke Bilberry:And so that's why I even think it's hard for us to have we we can't do a church potluck mill, you know, where everyone brings their dish. I mean, I guess we could, but that that would literally, we would run out of electrical plugs in a hurry for everyone's crock pot and all that. But there's something beautiful and simple about that, but it it can look the same. It can be the same heart posture, but it looks a little bit
Ramsay Smith:different. Yeah.
Luke Bilberry:Who's in your house? Who's in my house? You know? And I love to have people in my backyard, but my season of life isn't really busy right now. Not in the sake of like, there's just some logistics that don't make sense in my current day in life, but I look forward to some of those rhythms to get back to say, hey, what's it look like?
Luke Bilberry:So it's okay to hit pause and then reengage in a different way to live out these aspects for us as a local church. Does that make sense? Yeah.
Tyler Perrott:And I think too, I think what I'd add to that is that very end and the Lord added to their number daily, those who are being saved. Think I it's important for us when we think about the church to be reminded that the church is always a missional movement. And so the gospel came to you so it could go to somebody else and churches get in trouble. I think part of what you see with the death of the dying of some of the church in the West is the fact that we go, Oh man, I'm good. I've got me and my few people and we can just kind of stop here rather than going, No, it's about the mission carrying forward.
Tyler Perrott:And we do this together, but we are called to a greater mission together. And I think that we have to have both of those as part of how we live and how we think and how we operate to be able to go, I bet they had all sorts of logistical challenges in the early church as they added people to their numbers all of the time to go, how do we do this? But the moment they would have gotten to that glad and sincere hearts, what it talks about earlier, they would have lost to, hey, we're gonna do it because we're gonna figure it out because we want to be part of the mission of what God is doing. And we don't want to be the ones that hinder what God wants to do in and through us. We have to always have that posture everywhere we go, all that we're doing.
Tyler Perrott:And that's part of why we do church the way we do. Part of why multisite exists. Part of why we're always calling people to go, who are you multiplying? Because that is part of how the church functions. It doesn't stay static.
Tyler Perrott:It is always dynamic.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. And that's so well said because we see that again played out in these first few pages and first few chapters of Acts. They eventually got to a logistics. Hey. We need to serve really well.
Luke Bilberry:Our our orphans and our widows and people are being overlooked because we're growing. They went from being, you know, the 12 disciples, the 120 people that were following Jesus, those first few that were indwelled with the Holy Spirit to 3,000. The first time the word of God was preached, the story of Jesus Christ was told by Peter, and they're running into the logistics. Hey. We need to stay focused on the word so that we don't stray away from Jesus' teaching, but we need people to wait tables to be the hands and feet.
Luke Bilberry:So let's elect deacons. Right? So that's why the offices that sometimes I think we can make a bigger deal about pastors and elders and deacons, but it's just a way for us as a local church to try to serve our body well, to make sure people aren't overlooked. That would be our hope and our intent knowing that we may still make mistakes along the way, but that's why we structure and try to organize. And like you said, to be a multisite church, we're trying in earnest to try to do our best to advance the mission and to make sure people are served well.
Luke Bilberry:So hopefully our sites are a way that people can live in their spiritual giftedness and to be cared for, as we continue to, Lord willing, see the number added to daily. That's the prayer for more people to come to know Jesus. And so I was even thinking about that. You know, one of the things that sometimes people can have questions about the church is one that they can look like say one thing and make mistakes and sin and and look like hypocrites, you know, like if you're supposed to be holy, why aren't you acting holy? That's a beautiful opportunity to proclaim the gospel.
Luke Bilberry:We're broken in need of a savior just as much as you are. But one of those things I've seen here in verse 45 in Acts two, it says they were selling their possessions and their belongings and distributing the proceeds to all as any had need. So, Tyler, I think sometimes people can say, well, the church is just always asking for money, you know, and it's this nonprofit that is always how they just keep asking and asking for money. What's happening there in that passage?
Tyler Perrott:Yeah. I mean, think you see in that passage in particular, you see this this commonality, this desired wants to be able to say, hey, we we are selling for the sake of others. That I think it's all I think it's a mindset, but before it's a money issue to be able to go their posture towards one another was, I have far more concern for Luke and Ramsey's well-being than just my own. So I'm looking to you guys to go, do you guys need anything? Are you guys okay?
Tyler Perrott:And if one part of the body hurts, hey, we all hurt. And so I think before we get to the money thing, think it's a mindset thing that we have to be willing to recognize as I think that that's a downstream. I mean, money is always downstream of your discipleship. And so there's this aspect of, I would love to help us continue to live in and recapture that idea of what it looks like to have that kind of care, the loving one another, as we see all throughout the New Testaments that people, they have a deep desire to make sure that other people within the church are cared for, That they have what they need. That they are that that there is a essentially a clarity of going, is everyone good?
Tyler Perrott:Is everyone good here? Are we alright? Then we continue to live in community well. And so I think that there's an aspect of that kind of practicality. And then there's also, I think in our modern context, but also within you see it throughout the New Testament, this aspect of missional giving to be able to say part of generosity flows into for the sake of the mission where we're going, that there's a call to greater generosity because we want to see the gospel continue to be proclaimed, the gospel to continue to advance.
Tyler Perrott:That there is both of those aspects whenever you look at the practicality of the day to day living, and then also the call to give in response to the missional movement of God. Both of those are key aspects to generosity.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. Well, that's good. And I appreciate you kind of unpacking because I think sometimes we can misunderstand that heart posture. And and it goes back to one of the things I think you said at first, Ramsey, and you keep coming back to. There's this idea of the church is a body, an identity, but that body has a purpose, and that's the missional aspect.
Luke Bilberry:Go and make disciples of every nation because one day every knee will bow, every tongue will confess. And so there's that missional aspect that we see throughout the the New Testament stories as they're writing letters to the church, they're gathering money and they're sending the head of them, to start a new church or to support the work back, at the church. And other places that have already been established from Jerusalem, you know, to Judea, Samaria, to the ends of the earth, we're seeing the church grow and there's this universal connection point to say, hey, we get to pull our resources to make sure the body, I love the way you said that, is healthy and strong and vibrant working working together. So let me ask you this question because I think this is an interesting one here. And so Carson texted this one in a second ago and he says, I want Jesus, but I don't like the church.
Luke Bilberry:Right? I love Jesus, but I don't like the church. Or I can love Jesus and I can I can have a better worship experience me alone, you know, in the mountains of Colorado, which is not a bad place to be? Let's be honest. It's great.
Tyler Perrott:You do worship there.
Luke Bilberry:You do worship there, but but that's an interesting thing. I remember it, and maybe just kinda to double down on this, I remember in middle school, you know, someone would use this kind of as an illustration that just because you don't park in a garage doesn't make you a car. And I'm like, fair point. Valid facts. But Yeah.
Luke Bilberry:The garage has a purpose to protect your car. Right? Yeah. So, like, so, like, so wrestle with that. So someone says, I don't want g or I want Jesus, but I don't want the church.
Luke Bilberry:I love Jesus. I don't love the church. Help me process through that.
Ramsay Smith:The first thing that I'm I'm thinking of is even going back to the Apostles' Creed, like, we are broken people who can so quickly distort scripture without even knowing we're doing it. Because we're broken and it's our bend to be selfish. And so when you start to read scripture in isolation while quiet time and personal time in the word is good, It can so easily become twisted to how we want to interpret scripture. And so when you're not meeting with that gathered body of believers to help kind of realign your truth or the truth, you can you've lost you've lost the truth essentially. It becomes a slippery slope.
Ramsay Smith:I'm not I can't But talk yeah, it becomes a slippery slope when you are reading and interpreting scripture in isolation.
Luke Bilberry:That's well said.
Tyler Perrott:I think too, think even alongside that, would say part of it is is that kind of posture of selfishness that I think that whenever we are called to be a part of the body, be a part of the church, it forces us to live as servants, to live as people who are stepping in with this posture of I'm not just thinking about myself. And I think that there's this reality that I think that Jesus set up the church's way on purpose because it was a direct opposition to our natural tendency to want to be able to go, Oh, I want to do it all my way. Or I've and I'm sure that there's so much nuance, so many aspects that go to people who say this, but there's an aspect where part of the invitation into the church is this aspect of going, you're going to have to give up some of your preferences. You're going to have to die to yourself. And that sounds a lot like the message that Jesus gave us in some ways.
Tyler Perrott:For the sake of others, you're gonna have to die to some things that you would rather have. And that's the invitation that we're all called to. That's the invitation of discipleship that we have to step into and have to wrestle through. And also I think it's part of nothing. Have never seen Christians grow well in isolation.
Tyler Perrott:They may never grow well over the course of time. Like, I forget who said it, it's a quote, but it said, you get hurt in community and you're only healed through community. So like you may have been hurt, but actually the only way that you get healed is by stepping back in to a similar type community. You that that is I've seen so true for people to be able to go, yes, I am not dismissing the woundedness of what has occurred to you by someone. But I'm telling you the only way that you're actually going to truly reconcile that woundedness is by stepping back into community.
Tyler Perrott:And you're gonna have to go back through it or you're going to live your whole life, from a wound. And that's a terrible posture to live from.
Ramsay Smith:Yeah. And I don't think you can fully comprehend the fullness of Christ if you're cutting out the church. Because if if churches if Christ is compared to the body as the head of the church, he is like, we are his bride and you you cut out that, it's you're you're cutting out the fullness of Christ. Yeah.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. And when it goes back even that Ephesians to that, until we attain the unity, the full maturity, and that and that may be even part where people wrestle like, well, I don't see the church unified just as we are as individuals in process. So we, the church as a whole, is being sanctified, being washed in the water of the word so that Jesus may present, right, to himself this this bride who's who's clean. And unfortunately, we, the church, sometimes as Jesus has washed us white as snow, sometimes it feels like we pick mud and put it back on our put it back on us, and we mar our image again that he's saying, and he keeps coming back time and time again and cleaning us up. And eventually, the church will be fully unified to that full maturity of manhood and womanhood.
Luke Bilberry:Right? The church as as as we should be in that reality. And maybe a way just even a process, I feel like I say this often because it's it's a simplistic way that I have to understand it, that that God has given us the resources that we need to live out the Christian life. The person who says, I love Jesus and I just wanna be a follower of Jesus, Yes. God has given me those resources.
Luke Bilberry:It's his word himself, Jesus, right? The logos, the word of God. He's given to him. He's given you his spirit. Right?
Luke Bilberry:The spirit indwells those of us who confess Jesus as the Lord and he dwells within us, helps us discern, helps lead, guide us, brings things to mind, leads us into truth, helps us understand the scriptures. But the other things he's given us, the body. Right? The people of God. So the word of God, the spirit of God, the people of God.
Luke Bilberry:That's how I know I'm healed whole, have purpose, identity is within the community that God has placed me with. And so I get to humble myself to you guys. Right? And we get to serve one another. And in doing so, we see this beautiful iron and sharpened iron.
Luke Bilberry:We grieve with those who grieve. We we rejoice with those who rejoice. All the things that scripture begins to play out, they had, they were in one accord, you know, that there's this unity that we have in that as a local church. And one day, we, the big church, capital c, will gather around the marriage up to the lamb and things will be as it should be. That's good.
Luke Bilberry:So I'm trying to think, kind of final thoughts, closing thoughts, and then I have a fun little exercise for the room. You guys ready for this?
Tyler Perrott:So I can't wait.
Luke Bilberry:You can't wait. So I've already I prepped the guys behind the camera because that's the only way I can do that. But you guys are you guys are on the fly. Because we're the church, and I'm kind of riffing off, there's I think it's Ephesians, and Paul writes to the church, you'll have to correct me, Rhymes, if I get this wrong, but it says, sing songs, hymns, and spiritual songs to wanna that that we would gather together and we would bring these
Tyler Perrott:in. Not singing.
Luke Bilberry:If that is
Tyler Perrott:a requirement of see. Help.
Luke Bilberry:This is the time, bro. This is you're gonna you're gonna this is the moment you've been waiting for. No. So in kind of in that vein, I want I would love for you to share what is your prayer. And so Cyrus is gonna come up, Carson's gonna come up.
Luke Bilberry:What is your prayer for our local church in this moment and this season that we have together? Because I think one of the things if God has given us the the people of God, the spirit of God, the word of God, it's to hear, what are we praying for for one another? What are we hoping for and longing for one another? Because that can help it be aligning and unifying for us. And so I know Cyrus is really stoked to get on the other side of the camera right now and, tell us.
Luke Bilberry:But I think because it matters for us to hear these Yeah. These thoughts, these prayers for one another, and that could be a place we can close and pray, our time together. Go for it.
Carson Kunnen:Do want
Luke Bilberry:me to just share? Paper, x's or whoever wants to
Tyler Perrott:go I can go forward. Am I praying it or am I just stating it? Stating your prayer. Okay.
Luke Bilberry:And then then we can pray. Then I'll close this in prayer in just a minute.
Tyler Perrott:So, I mean, so some of this ties into even where kind of our disciple initiative is moving this fall. So we're gonna be going through the book of acts. And part of that is like looking through the book of acts as this kind of the church as the movement of God. And so I I think for me, the prayer that I've been having for our people is to be movement ready. Mhmm.
Tyler Perrott:Like, we a move are we are we movement ready disciples? When we're thinking about going to Grandville, is it because we're movement ready? When we're thinking about what God is doing at Hudsonville and Byron Center, is it because we're ready to move or are we trying to control it? And we wanna go, hey, I'll move as long as it doesn't make me uncomfortable. My prayer is that we get really uncomfortable with God calling us to move into the unknown, move into greater ownership, greater leadership.
Tyler Perrott:So my prayer for our church is to grow into right now, but also over the course of this next year, that movement mindset to be able to go, I wanna be a I wanna be part of movement ready church. I wanna be people who are ready to go. Whatever it takes. I have to sell everything for the sake of the movement. Let's do it.
Tyler Perrott:I have to be devoted, and that's gonna maybe cost me some other things in our family priorities. Let's do it. Like, that's what I I wanna see that embodied in our people, that that is really where we're fostering, where we're getting to.
Luke Bilberry:I love that. That's so good. Rejji, what are praying for for our church family, our local church station
Ramsay Smith:I've been thinking about my tenth grade girls. Well, come eleventh grade girls.
Luke Bilberry:Come on now.
Ramsay Smith:They're growing up. Oh my goodness. Anyways, specifically that they would be rooted and grounded in scripture and like, because they they aren't just the next generation. They are, like, the generation now of our of our church.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. They're having huge impact. Just think about the sports campus their summer camp this past weekend.
Ramsay Smith:Yeah. They're leading they're leading younger kids to the Lord. Oh my goodness. I've been hearing couple stories about that. One of my girls texted me and she said, oh my goodness.
Ramsay Smith:I have two girls who came to know the Lord this week that I got to lead to know Jesus. Are you kidding me? That's that's discipleship.
Luke Bilberry:That's that's movement ready.
Ramsay Smith:Let's go. That's what I've been praying for.
Luke Bilberry:I love that. Thank you. Thank you. Alright, Carson. Thanks for thanks for joining the the podcast, buddy.
Luke Bilberry:Thank you. Are you praying? Thanks for letting me throw an audible on it and throwing you throwing you on here, buddy. What are you praying for our church?
Carson Kunnen:Man, I think, like, having grown up in West Michigan my entire life, having grown up in the church, I had a a moment where I really encountered the Lord. And I think my prayer for our church is that we would be activated. We wouldn't just be attending. We wouldn't just be going through the motions of a Sunday morning, because I've done that. I've been that's that's part of my story is is doing that, but still living in sin and still living far away from God.
Carson Kunnen:And so I think my prayer is like, man, would we just live activated?
Luke Bilberry:Yeah.
Carson Kunnen:Would we live bold? Would we live countercultural? Would we be just radical in our pursuit of the Lord and and to be in community with one another? I think, like, I just I have been so wrecked by the grace of Jesus and and and been saved by him. I just wanna I wanna extend that to other people.
Carson Kunnen:And so, would we be activated? Would we tear away the complacency? Would we, you know, step into a real authentic, bold, passionate pursuit of the Lord?
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. I love that. Thanks, man. What about you, Cyrus? Are you praying for at church?
Cyrus Askarisedeh:I'm not gonna be nearly as eloquent, but I will talk right into the mic just so this we get here. For me, it's the removal of this idea of individualized faith, at least in a church body. So I've had a couple of conversations with people about, hey, Sunday is my time to worship. I get to sit right here. It's me and Jesus.
Cyrus Askarisedeh:It's awesome. That is awesome. That's great. You have every day of the week to do that. Monday through Saturday, that's your time, but this is Sunday.
Cyrus Askarisedeh:This is our time as a church body to come together and we get to worship our king together as loudly, as abulso as we can. So I just wonder where else in our faith do we do that. Is hey. This is my time. This is me and Jesus.
Cyrus Askarisedeh:This is where I get to serve Jesus. Cool. What about us? Yeah. The church, the body together.
Cyrus Askarisedeh:So that's what I've been praying for, really, especially with men's night. All things we're doing that. It's Father's Day just the other day of how many men do we have that can sit on their knees and bow before the king, not just like, hey, so my kids can do this and this is great, but like, hey, it's for him, and I don't care what I look like here. I don't care what he thinks of me because we're doing it together too. It's not even this idea of like, hey, what does Carson think of me when I'm doing this?
Cyrus Askarisedeh:Because Carson's doing
Tyler Perrott:it with me. Yeah. Yeah.
Luke Bilberry:That that unity. So maybe let me summarize the words. I heard pastor Tyler say movement ready. I heard Carson say activated. I hear a with, like, that that every moment we're not actually saying it's it's mine, but we're saying it's I'm I'm a part of the body.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. Right? That's what you're saying. And then you said rooted. Right?
Luke Bilberry:Rooted in the word so that you can be the church here right now. And so, those are some incredible prayers, and I would hope and pray that you would have prayers like that for us as well. That a local church, Chapel Point right here, a multisite church in West Michigan, What are your prayers? What are you praying for us? Because God is on the move and we're just simply trying to passionately respond to Jesus, to be rooted in prayer in the Bible and to be equipping disciples.
Luke Bilberry:And you get to play a part in that. God has something for you right here, right now to be the church. And ultimately, is our prayer. That God would be glorified. We would be the bride, the body, the temple.
Luke Bilberry:He has made us to be for his glory alone. So we love you guys, and we'll see you on the the next episode where we get to talk about angels and demons. Angels and demons. Yes, sir. So it's gonna be fun.
Luke Bilberry:Pastor Jim's gonna bring the message, and we can't wait to see you guys then.