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D32 is a premium business growth network where business leaders and experts in Perth and across Australia form meaningful relationships so they can leverage the time, contacts and activities of a vast network. D32 supports the little guys (and gals) and the 7-8-figure businesses. We’re a community that has each others’ backs. This podcast is about all things business, entrepreneurship and connectiom.
D32 Part 3 Full Video Podcast
[00:00:00]
Kingsley: This is part three of four with Jeremy Hills, who's talking a lot about really the psychology behind selling and . We don't go into business to become salespeople. Not for the most part, but it is part of what we need to do if we wanna have a business all around that.
And we've covered a couple of topics, ., Around why conversations actually fail before you even start, why you may not be c closing some things and, and building rapport. And this one, . I, I think is really, really important is a lot of people don't buy office, and we cannot tell why that's happened.
Jeremy Hills: Why that happened.
Kingsley: I'm
Jeremy Hills: Jeremy,
I'm excited about, it's
Kingsley: what's
Jeremy Hills: help us find out what's the
Kingsley: and
Jeremy Hills: real thing.
Kingsley: really
Jeremy Hills: What are
Kingsley: behind the actual
Jeremy Hills: behind actual work?
Kingsley: you mean by that.
Jeremy Hills: Yeah. Well, a lot of the time, like we we're oftentimes too quick to actually go for the close in any sales interaction because [00:01:00] we haven't taken the time to ask enough questions to find out if there's a deeper need.
. And we've all probably had the experience of someone selling to us without even asking us, do you actually even need this product or service? And I think that's sometimes where salespeople can get like an icky kind of feeling because the sales person is like, you need to buy this, you need to buy this, you need to buy this.
And you're like, you haven't even asked if I needed it. I just, it's like you'd be like, I bought a car yesterday and then you are selling me a car today. It's like, you haven't even found out if I need a car yet. Okay. Because I just got one yesterday and. That's where it can really prevent people.
Kingsley: what, what we've noticed there with that is that, like you said, people haven't found out what's the real need or do they actually need something in the first place? do guess people in sales
Jeremy Hills: People in sales mode
Kingsley: not ask the questions? and
Jeremy Hills: not ask the question.
Kingsley: should
Jeremy Hills: Yeah.
Kingsley: instead?
Like, what's the mindset frame that should be with them as they're moving forward to, to make the [00:02:00] sale?
Jeremy Hills: I'll probably come listen into the next, next one too, but like, your intention should be to help the customer make a decision though. Okay. We're often, our intention is to get the close. Okay. But if our intention is, is like, I'm helping this customer, am I coming from a place to help my, my job is to help them make a decision.
I would rather actually get a no than a maybe May. If you've been in sales, maybes are a. And, and, just not good. And the reason why a, a, a maybes are not good is that person that says maybe they're gonna be like, oh, can I speak to you next week? And then they'll, and then you'll call 'em up again and you'll be say, oh, can I speak to you?
Oh, I not, haven't made a decision yet. I'm still thinking about it. And then they're pushing in. Then they, I'm, it could be weeks and then months. And you've got this person in your funnel for six months, 12 months, and you keep following up with 'em 'cause they still haven't made a decision. And they're the ones that take up like all your bandwidth.
So what you really wanna do is get 'em to make a decision. Is it yes or is it no. And if your intention is, is to help them [00:03:00] ask good quality questions that will help them get beyond just the surface need. A really good example is say someone says, I wanna lose weight. Okay? And you're selling 'em a weight loss solution.
Like if you just sold to that, you most likely probably won't close the sale. You have a very low closing ratio. You might close like one outta 10. However, if I say, well, how come you wanna lose weight? I wanna lose weight because, i, I feel like I'm not attractive in my relationship anymore. Like, and I, and I feel that my, my partner's like not, liking me anymore.
I feel like I'm, if I don't lose weight, I might not, I might not be loved anymore. I might not be lovable. And you're just like, that's the real need. Okay. And if I actually put the time and ask enough questions to find that out, when I go for the close, you can be like, well, do you wanna have a happy relationship?
And actually have, maybe they're concerned about the health, maybe they had a health scare, and you sell it to that too, like, like, what's it? What's it? And then you [00:04:00] go for the cost. What's it actually gonna cost you if you don't solve this problem? But you can't actually do that if you don't actually understand the needs.
Kingsley: So how do we
Jeremy Hills: Yeah.
Kingsley: to that point where we do understand their needs really well on a level that actually resonates with them?
Jeremy Hills: Yeah, it does probably come back to the first thing, like your emotional state when going into this is going to be extremely important because like you're, you're speaking about emotions and people don't like emotions, like people in sales don't want to bring up emotions in their customers. However, that, that's your job as a, as a sales person.
And the emotions are the, are their fears. Their fears about like. Like, what does it mean if I make a bad financial decision? What does it mean if I fail? What does it mean if I can't succeed? Like what happens if someone else succeeds and I can't succeed? And like we need to get down to this level. And most people run away from the emotions, but you gotta actually hold space [00:05:00] for them and be like, no, no, I'm gonna keep asking questions.
Like, let's just take the money and the time. Objection, let's say. Okay. I don't have enough money. Okay. Just even taking it one step further, well, when will you have money? Or like, like how, how come you don't have money or maybe your, the product or service you're offering will help them make more money.
Some people can just be like, well, I just paid, paid the mechanic last week, so I don't have money today. But so we say, well, when will you have money? I'll have money in two weeks when I get paid again. Well give him a call in two weeks. Yeah.
Kingsley: Hmm.
Jeremy Hills: same as time. Like people say, oh, I, I might be going on this holiday, or I'm doing this course, or I'm, I'm, I'm completing this.
Just ask him when he, when will it be done? Okay. Can I give and also ask, can I give you a call when you're done? Okay. And like even that will increase your sales, but most people, like, they just, they like lick their wounds of being [00:06:00] hurt after like getting the first objection of, I don't have money, or I don't have time, and you just go, okay.
And you just hang the phone up. Like you're probably double your closing ratio by just asking another question.
Kingsley: Yeah, that's, it's very true. And I think car salespeople do this really, really well where the car might be, say
Jeremy Hills: Yeah.
Kingsley: bucks and they're like, oh, I can't afford 45 thou thousand. That's a lot of money to spend on a car. you spend $150 a week? Oh yeah, I could do that. That's fine.
Jeremy Hills: A hundred, a hundred percent. But also isolate the problem is money. The only thing is time. The only thing. Okay. And then if it's not, they'll probably tell you something else. Also, like we're very quick to discount the, discount it, but sometimes people will spend more money on the thing that actually solves their problem.
Because sometimes we're buying a whole pile of stuff that doesn't solve our problem, okay? However, if you've got good trust and you actually find out their emotional need and they really trust you. [00:07:00] You'll actually be able to charge more for your product or service if it actually solves the, the real problem that they're actually experiencing.
Okay? Like take the car, for example. There might be, it might be expensive at $45,000 because maybe they've got a family of five kids and two, two adults, and they're really thinking about, do I need to buy two cars to get my kids to school rather than one car? And if they have to buy two cars at $45,000, that's expensive.
Okay? But if you sold 'em the car, that's a seven seater car, you might actually be able to do it and sell them an $80,000 car. 'cause then they don't have to buy two cars. But you gotta actually ask enough questions to find out that information.
Kingsley: So it's really, it's really, it sounds like asking a lot of questions and getting down to drilling down to what's really going on inside of their mind and their emotions at the same time, both.
Jeremy Hills: Yeah. And, and maintaining that rapport through the [00:08:00] whole, through that whole experience. And, and a lot of people in sales have probably heard this, like, people are not buying logic. They're buying, based on emotions we buy with emotions and we justify with logic later. Yeah. So if you act like we don't buy half the stuff we buy based on logic, we like to think we do.
I bought a mill because of X, Y, and Z, or I bought this, this car and I, and I got the, the leather seats be because of X, Y, and Z. And we just, we, we make up a reason after we want the thing. Okay. And we just say, oh, now I bought, I bought this because of this. And like, no, you bought it 'cause you wanted it.
You wanted it 'cause it would make you feel a certain emotion. Yeah. And if you as a sales person can find that emotion and then give them that product or service like you, you're gonna close if you can get to that last stage. I mentioned that, mentioned that in the, in the previous episode. It is like, if you can get to the point where they're sharing like, like their real personal life, like, oh, I am.
I need this product or service because I'm, [00:09:00] I'm, I'm afraid that I'm, I won't be able to be there for my kids or, my relationship might attend. And you start to get to this like, real emotional level, it will make such a big difference. And you'll, you'll start to close like more than one outta two of those conversations if you can get to that level.
Kingsley: It, it's interesting because, most of the listeners on this podcast are gonna be business owners, small business owners. That's, that's the most of the
Jeremy Hills: Yeah.
Kingsley: And then I
Jeremy Hills: So,
and then I think about, okay.
Kingsley: are a product or a service that you are selling for a reason because you believe people want that. And then you've got the other side where you've got the person purchasing wants it for a particular reason. That's probably specific to them as an individual for the most part. And it's almost like you're combining, this is what can help you. How can I make you see this will help you from your perspective?
Jeremy Hills: Yeah, I think the, that it, that language also needs to [00:10:00] change. I'm gonna make you see this. Okay. Like, if you actually say, well, what do you want? Yeah. What do you actually need? And there's too much I'm selling to you, rather than, my intention is I'm helping you. Because if they will sell themselves, if you find out what is going on for them and that switch in mindset, if I'm selling something to you rather than I'm helping you make a decision and I'm finding out what you actually need and what you want and what's going on for you emotionally, the customer will sell themselves.
Kingsley: Yeah.
Jeremy Hills: ' cause
people feel like they're not listened to.
Kingsley: no, E. Exactly. Exactly. And, and, and I think for the most part, if they're talking to you as a small business owner, they're wanting what you're after. And so why are you the
Jeremy Hills: Absolutely.
Kingsley: it to them as to, as opposed to your competition? it's getting down to
Jeremy Hills: Yeah.
Kingsley: state by the sounds of things.
Jeremy Hills: Like if you have a good relationship and rapport with a [00:11:00] customer, like they will purchase with you. And if you have really good rapport and you get to that deeper emotional level, depending on what you do, they could become lifelong customers that stick with you for, for years, if not decades. If you have a personal relationship with them.
Yeah, like. Like sometimes I've spoken with like CEOs and if you've taken the time to even spend time with your, your staff and you are, and you're doing things like team building, you are going out for, for lunches and you're organizing things on a per, like more on a personal level, you can have higher staff retention as well.
And, and if you can build deeper connections and relationships with people and get outta the mentality of like, I'm selling to you and just say, well. What's going on in your life? What's, what's the problem? What's important to you? What makes you tick? If you find out their family's important to them or their health, like what's, and then because I mean you understand them, an emotional level, level, you can ask this question, what's it costing you not buying this product?
Okay. [00:12:00] If you ask that question on the surface, they will hang up the phone on you.
Kingsley: Yeah.
Jeremy Hills: away because you, you haven't understood them. Okay. But if you know them at an emotional level and they feel like they trust you, you can ask the question, well, what's it costing you not to change? What's the cost of inaction?
Yeah. And then they, and they will buy themselves.
Kingsley: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And, and I think one of the
Jeremy Hills: Yeah.
Kingsley: well is we forget, even if it, if it's B2B sales, we forget that. You're selling to a business,
Jeremy Hills: Yeah.
Kingsley: behind that business is an actual human with emotions and feelings still.
Jeremy Hills: And I always, yeah. One of the things I learned very early on is someone said to me is, you're not selling business to business. You're selling always business, like really person to person really,
Kingsley: Yeah.
Jeremy Hills: because there's always a person making a decision. A company's not gonna make a decision without a person.
The the, the person is making the decision. So you need to get to know them. And I've even noticed more and more we move into a world of technology. I remember I always [00:13:00] made an effort if I ever got a job earlier on, I always went to the person who was gonna hire me and introduced myself. Because if you have that rapport, you are the one getting the job like every single time.
Same as your, your customers. Like if you have the rapport and that you have the trust, you are the one that gets the business.
Kingsley: Yeah, a hundred percent Very enlightening as far as how to actually, you know, get to the, what people are really wanting and helping them actually solve their problem for them with what we actually have to offer, whether it's a product or service. So next one, this is number three of four. Number four.
The psychology of closing without feeling pushy. And I think that's a big one. 'cause most people in sales, it's. Don't ask a question because they feel like they're being pushy or pushing something onto
Jeremy Hills: Yeah.
Kingsley: So I can't wait to hear about this. So next time in the podcast, Jeremy, part four of four. Looking forward to that one.
Jeremy Hills: Thanks, Kingsley. Looking forward to it.
Kingsley: Thank you
[00:14:00]