Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

What it takes to lead as a communicator and communicate as a leader.
Leadership isn’t just about making decisions — it’s about how you communicate them. As Matt Abrahams puts it, “Communication is operationalized leadership.”
At a recent Me2We event, in connection with Stanford GSB's Executive Education LEAD program, Abrahams held a live discussion with four of the podcast’s most popular guests: Celine Teoh, facilitator of the GSB’s famous Interpersonal Dynamics course; Huggy Rao, organizational behavior professor and co-author of The Friction Project; legendary Stanford basketball coach Tara VanDerveer; and Dave Dodson, lecturer and author of The Manager's Handbook.
In this special live episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, the panel shares frameworks and lessons for leading and communicating more effectively. From Teoh’s five A’s for inviting dissent to Rao’s warning against “jargon monoxide,” from VanDerveer’s relationship-first approach to Dodson’s case for leading like a teacher, this conversation explores what it takes to communicate as a leader — and lead as a communicator.

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Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Abrahams
Lecturer Stanford University Graduate School of Business | Think Fast Talk Smart podcast host
Guest
Celine Teoh
CEO Coach, Interpersonal Dynamics Facilitator at Stanford Business School
Guest
David Dodson
General Partner at Futaleufu Partners and Author of The Manager’s Handbook
Guest
Huggy Rao
Professor, Stanford University
Guest
Tara VenDerveer
Director of Women's Basketball, Stanford University

What is Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques?

One of the most essential ingredients to success in business and life is effective communication.

Join Matt Abrahams, best-selling author and Strategic Communication lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, as he interviews experts to provide actionable insights that help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact. From handling impromptu questions to crafting compelling messages, Matt explores practical strategies for real-world communication challenges.

Whether you’re navigating a high-stakes presentation, perfecting your email tone, or speaking off the cuff, Think Fast, Talk Smart equips you with the tools, techniques, and best practices to express yourself effectively in any situation. Enhance your communication skills to elevate your career and build stronger professional relationships.

Tune in every Tuesday for new episodes. Subscribe now to unlock your potential as a thoughtful, impactful communicator. Learn more and sign up for our eNewsletter at fastersmarter.io.

Matt Abrahams: Communication
is operationalized leadership.

The best leaders communicate
clearly and consistently.

My name is Matt Abrahams, and I
teach Strategic Communication at

Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to this special episode of
Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast,

recorded live as part of Me2We, which
is an on-campus component of Stanford

GSB's Executive Education LEAD program.

In front of over 500 people, I had the
honor and privilege to host 4 of our

most popular guests in a thoughtful
discussion of practical ideas and

tools we can all use to become
better leaders and communicators.

It is now my distinct pleasure
to host for you a live version

of Think Fast Talk Smart.

By way of quick introduction,
we have Celine Teoh, Huggy Rao,

Tara VanDerveer, and Dave Dodson.

Thank you all for being here.

I'm excited to have our conversation.

We'll start with Celine.

Celine is a facilitator for the GSB's
very famous class, Interpersonal

Dynamics, better known as Touchy Feely.

She is a coach and a lecturer in effective
team leadership and a GSB graduate.

So Celine, it's really
nice to see you again.

Celine and I will sometimes go
for the walks in the foothills.

It's a little different
in this format here.

As everyone here well knows,
our world has become a bit more

divisive, and conversations can tend
to be a little more conflictual.

What advice do you have for leaders
to encourage differences of opinions

while trying to minimize the angst
and conflict that can result?

Celine Teoh: I'm going to approach it from
an interpersonal dynamics point of view.

And as a leader, if you want to
encourage dissent, one of the first

things you have to do is ask for it.

I'm going to give you a framework.

It's the five A's.

You have to ask for it.

"Hey, what does everybody think? Does
anybody have a different point of

view?" You have to acknowledge it.

"Oh, thank you for telling me that you
think that this initiative might actually

reduce our budget and make us unable to
meet our other goals." Appreciate it,

"I really enjoy that you told me this.

Thank you so much." Fourth is act on it.

As much as possible, act on it, right?

Put your money where your mouth is.

"Let's actually do an analysis to find
out if there is enough money to hit

these goals." And then amplify it.

"Oh, Matt told me this thing. I really
appreciate that he told me this thing

that I might initially have disagreed
with." Because when you do something

like that, you actually create safety
for people to dissent with you.

And then you asked a question around
how do you minimize conflict when the

dissent does happen, and I would say,
don't focus on the conflict itself.

Actually build the human
relationship before that.

So ask for it, acknowledge it,
appreciate, act on it, as much

as you can, and then amplify it

Matt Abrahams: Excellent.

What I notice is agree
was not mandated to agree.

There isn't a sixth A. It's just
to acknowledge and understand.

Thank you very much.

I appreciate that.

Sitting next to Celine is Huggy Rao.

Huggy is a professor in organizational
behavior, and he teaches a lot of

popular classes, including People
Operations From Startup to Scaleup.

And Huggy has written several books,
but his most recent with Bob Sutton, who

also teaches at Stanford, is The Friction
Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right

Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder.

So Huggy, when we last spoke,
your book had just come out.

The Friction Project had just come out.

It's been a while now.

Can you share with all of us some
things you learned when you were

bringing that book to the world,
and what was most well-received?

Is there something that really
helped people that you could share

with us that could help all of us?

Huggy Rao: I would say, uh, the idea
or principle that had, uh, maximum

impact was what Bob and I refer to
as the addition bias, the relentless

tendency of leaders, managers,
and executives to constantly add.

Let me narrate a simple experiment.

So this was actually a
series of 20 experiments.

So in the first experiment, they
ask people, "Hey, you've got to

build a spaceship with Lego building
blocks. Do you want 5 of them

or do you want 15 of them?" What
do you think most people choose?

15. Arguably, it's way more
complex to build a spaceship

with 15 blocks as opposed to 5.

In the second experimental task,
they ask people, "Please plan a

vacation." And predictably, they
add more cities to the vacation.

And the consequence is they feel they
need to have a vacation from a vacation.

And we're sitting in a university, and
that was the last of the 20 experiments.

"Please help us reform a
university." 89% of the suggestions

had to do with addition.

What's the consequence of addition?

I could go on about how it
destroys willpower and so forth.

Let me give you two quotes
that have always stood with me.

One young woman with a tear
in her eye told me, "I just

feel I can never be enough."

And that is tragic.

And American organizations psychologize
this and say, "Oh my God, they have a

work-life balance issue. Let's give them
a meditation app." The real problem is

the lousy way in which work is designed.

So the big takeaway from all of that
is the implication for all of you as

leaders is to be editors in chief.

What does the editor-in-chief
of a movie or a newspaper do?

They take out things that bore,
bewilder, distract, and exhaust people.

And a good place to start is start with
a campaign to get rid of stupid shit.

That's like a simple place to start.

Matt Abrahams: Thank
you, Huggy, very much.

Sitting next to Huggy is Tara VanDerveer.

I am thrilled and honored that
you decided to join us today.

Thank you.

Tara served as Stanford's head
women's basketball coach for 38 years.

Tara led Stanford to 3
national championships.

She also coached the US national
team to Olympic gold in 1996.

I've had the good fortune to get to
know Tara over the last year or so.

Tara's very interested in learning
and bringing learning to the

student athletes here on campus,
and to the coaches as well.

You've been super busy since you retired.

I think maybe more busy
than when you coached.

And Tara not only helps coach coaches,
but she coaches leaders as well.

What do you find is one thing
that you think is most helpful?

Tara VanDerveer: You know, the one thing
I guess I want to communicate with the

young people I work with, whether it's
the players or the coaches that I work

with, or now it's the other coaches of
other teams, is just whenever I went to

the gym, I never felt like it was a job.

I loved going to the gym.

I loved being around the
players that I worked with.

And I always wanted to
help them be better.

And one of the things I did as an
adult, does anyone play the piano here?

It is so hard, but I wanted
to learn as an adult.

And I tried to teach myself for 2
weeks, and it was, like, hopeless.

And so I went out and I
got the best piano teacher.

I mean, she's just phenomenal.

And within the first year I was
making CDs and then another CDs.

And people said to me, "Wow, Tara,
you're really good." I said, "No, I have

a great teacher." And what I took from
that, and I hope to use with my coaching,

is I always want to help people get to
somewhere they can't get by themselves.

So it's lifting them up and being
positive and being encouraging and

helping them be the best they can be.

That's the thing I try to encourage,
whether it's the players or coaches or

people that I have a chance to meet,
is be someone that makes it better.

Be someone that makes a difference.

Matt Abrahams: Thank you very much.

David, this is David Dodson.

Dave is a lecturer in management.

He's also an alum.

He teaches Managing Growing Enterprises
among his many other classes, and

his latest book is The Manager's
Handbook: 5 Simple Steps to Build

a Team, Stay Focused, Make Better
Decisions, and Crush Your Competition.

Dave, when you were on the podcast before,
it was a master class in how to lead

and how to really be a better manager.

Since we last met, it feels like
so much has changed in the world.

We met before the AI
revolution and other things.

If you were to update your manager's
handbook today based on the

challenges leaders are facing, what
one bit of advice would you add?

David Dodson: I've
thought about that a lot.

I don't see how two things can coexist
right now, which is that AI has all

of the description and promise, and
there won't be a lot of job disruption.

I know some people say that's not
the case, but I don't believe that.

And the reason I don't believe that
is because AI is by definition doing

things that people did or people do now.

That's gonna lead to disruption.

I didn't necessarily
say it's gonna be bad.

I have no idea how it's gonna turn out.

Anyone who says they know are
fooling themselves, but I do

know there's gonna be disruption.

And Warren Buffett has that great
expression, I assume he coined it, "When

the tide comes down, you see the rocks."
I think that's what's gonna happen,

is I think the tide is gonna come down
because the whole idea or the whole

sweepstakes of who's a winner and who's
a loser is gonna be turned on its head.

And you're not going to win
because you have better technology.

45 years ago I was programming
in Fortran, and I could figure

out how to draw a Christmas tree
in a dot matrix printer, right?

And then I haven't programmed since then.

Everyone here can program now.

We're all programmers now.

So technology is becoming less and less
important, and what's ending up happening

is running things well is going to
become more and more important because

you can't cover it up with the things
that you used to be able to cover up.

So I don't think there's ever gonna be a
more important time than to go back to the

fundamentals of how do you build a team?

What are the sub-skills
of building a team?

How do you go get advice?

How do you measure quality?

And so all those fundamentals I think
are going to rise because the technology

advantage is gonna come down, and
there's going to be a lot of disruption.

Matt Abrahams: Thank you to all of you.

It was nice to hear your
voices and your input.

The theme of this year's Me2We is
leadership, and I'd like to ask each

of you to share one of the best bits
of leadership advice you've learned or

experienced in your careers that you think
would benefit those folks in the room.

Dave, since we just heard from
you, let's have you start again.

What's one of the best bits of advice?

David Dodson: So my career after I got
out of business school was I worked

here at the business school, and then
I went out and bought a small company.

And that small company, the
largest investor was TA Associates,

which was very small at the time.

Now they're huge.

So I got access to the guy who was
running the whole place, Kevin Landry.

He's since passed away.

And he told me this.

He said, "The hardest step that you
make is not becoming a manager because

once you become a manager and you've got
three or four people reporting to you,

you can do their work on the weekends,
you can cover up for them or whatever.

The hard thing is when you become
a manager of managers because then

you can't cheat basically the system
anymore." And he said, "That's what we're

gonna see whether you can do or not."
And so as a result of that, I've over

time evolved to the comparison between
being a leader and being a teacher.

And it's not because I teach
at the business school.

I'm, it's in a different context,
is that the best leaders are the

ones that are focused on teaching
and developing talent and not doing.

So that would be the single
nugget that I wanted to share.

Matt Abrahams: Thank you for that.

And one of the hardest lessons I ever
had to learn when I was an operator was

exactly that 'cause I wanted everybody
to like me, so I did all the work

myself, and I didn't take that step back.

So Tara, let's move to you.

What's some advice that you
would share here about good

leadership that you've learned?

Tara VanDerveer: I was a, a head coach
before I was at Stanford, and I was in

a situation where, you know, we had a
championship team, we had great recruits,

we had, I had a great staff, but I
didn't feel appreciated from maybe the

leadership of the athletic department.

And so I started looking around, and
then I got recruited by Stanford.

So I took the job at Stanford, and then
we've had great success at Stanford.

And Stanford at the time
was not a very good program.

But I think more than anything, I learned
that as a leader, as the head coach, you

know, whether it's I wanted to be a great
teacher, but I wanted to make sure that

the people I worked with felt appreciated.

And a, a lot of people, I think, change
their jobs, not because they don't like

the job, but because they don't like who
they're working for, and they don't feel

the respect or they don't feel the part of
the, the process that they want to feel.

And I felt it, and so I want to
make sure that the people that I

work with, my assistant coaches,
my staff, feel appreciated.

Matt Abrahams: Thank you.

Take the time to appreciate.

Very good.

Huggy, how about some leadership
advice you've experienced

or you'd like to pass on?

Huggy Rao: I love history.

And for me, the advice, I guess, that
had the most impact on me, that in part

informed our Friction Project book, was
the advice, uh, Augustus Caesar, the great

Roman emperor, would give to his generals.

He would always tell them,
"Make haste slowly." And that's

been worked and reworked.

I think the great danger with
speed is good people can do very

bad things very quickly, and
that's the problem with speed.

One quick study, I asked my PhD student,
"Here's a bunch of Bay Area startups. Use

a large language model to comb through
all their strategy documents. Tell me

how much do they linguistically emphasize
speed?" She came up with a number.

I said, "Tell me what's the relationship
between this linguistic emphasis on speed

and the time taken to become a unicorn?"
And she was excited, and she said,

"Oh my God, the more they talked about
speed, the faster they became a unicorn."

I said, "Wait a minute." I said,
"Conditional on the first stage, do

a second stage analysis and tell me
the relationship between the time

taken to become a unicorn and the
probability of lawsuits two years

down the line." What did she find?

Faster you became a unicorn,
you got barraged with lawsuit.

So to me, the most important thing
I think is to create, for all of

you as leaders, cognitive speed
bumps to slow your people down.

Because if you don't do that, they're
going to, of course, rush in and make

mistakes and also do many bad things.

So a simple technique is to always
say, "What would we do if we had

half the resources we have? What
would we do if we have quarter the

resources we have?" And just the
thought experiment slows you down.

Matt Abrahams: Excellent.

Thank you very much.

Slow things down and
build in some friction.

Celine, how about you?

What's some leadership
advice you have for folks?

Celine Teoh: So I actually went
out and asked my coachees this.

So I'm going to pass on to you wisdom
from all of these leaders of fairly

large and successful organizations.

And every single one of them had the
same advice, which was listen more.

And that's because, as you all
know, everybody in here is a leader.

The more senior you get, the taller,
funnier, better looking you become.

Nobody wants to say no to you.

Nobody wants to tell you bad news.

You stop hearing the stuff you need to
hear in order to make good decisions.

And so answer to the first question,
ask, and then do what one of

these leaders is actually doing.

He's having the situation where he's
retiring, and he's grooming the successor,

and the successor he noticed, like, jumps
in and states her opinion right away

the instant she gets into the meeting.

And what that does is that
narrows the conversation.

Suddenly everybody's just
supporting her perspective.

And so the advice that he gave her
was, "Be the last one to speak.

Let the junior people speak first,
and then don't shoot them down.

But let them all speak first,
and then you'll suddenly

hear a diversity of opinions.

And then when they speak, listen very
hard." Because when they say, "Celine,

perhaps that might not possibly be the
best idea on the table," what they really

mean is, "Celine, that idea sucks." So
you have to listen, You have to kind

of like amp up what they're saying.

So listen hard.

Matt Abrahams: Thank you all for that.

And I'd love just very quickly
to hear from some of you before

I get to our final question.

If you have thoughts on what
helps improve communication.

And Huggy, I'm gonna pick on you
because you said something, I

don't know that it's yours, but
you talked about jargon monoxide.

Can you talk about how that
suffocates communication?

Huggy Rao: I think it kills communication.

We have a chapter in our book about
jargon monoxide, and that's using

hugely complicated words and language
that frankly alienates people.

In fact, the more abstractions you invoke,
the more confused you leave people.

Look at all the companies,
they say integrity is a value.

I get confused by that.

What does that mean?

Does it mean I tell you the truth
even before you ask me or do I tell

you the truth only when you ask me?

And there's actually a very
interesting study that shows the

more abstract and jargon-laden the
language we use, people actually

associate those words with the mouth.

And when you use concrete
words and language, people

associate that with the hand.

And so every time you're talking
to somebody, ask yourself what's

the ratio of hand to mouth word?

And once you do that, you quickly
realize, I've got to purge a lot of these

mouth words, abstractions that simply
signal you have mastered presumably

something, but leave everybody mystified.

And you don't have agreement then.

You actually have people
sleepwalking to conclusions of

which they're completely unaware of.

Matt Abrahams: I need to get my foot out
of my mouth most of the time, so maybe

that leads me into more of my hands.

Thank you.

Tara, when you and I spoke, I was really
fascinated by how you think about giving

constructive feedback to your players.

If you think about it, a coach's job
is to coach and to give that feedback.

In terms of your communication
when you're in a moment of giving

feedback, can you share a little
bit about how you approach that?

Tara VanDerveer: Well, I
think feedback is coaching.

Sometimes it's hard for
people to hear feedback.

The very first person I coached was
my sister Marie, who never practiced.

My dad made me coach her team, and Marie
never practiced, but I always knew that I

had a great relationship with my sister.

So the first thing I would start
with when I'm coaching someone is the

relationship that I have with them.

So maybe a senior on the team who
I know and know really well, I

might be able to communicate in
a different way than a freshman.

So it's first the communication
is based on the relationship that

you have with the person you're
talking with or giving feedback.

And then no matter what, I would
sandwich the communication with positive.

If someone, you know, is not getting
back on defense, I said, "Wow, you're

doing a, a great job on the offensive
boards, but you're not sprinting back

on defense, and we need you out there."
So it would be positive of, you know,

you're doing a great job, let's do this
better, and then another great job.

So I call it, you know, the
sandwich approach to coaching.

And after every game, we would
give our team very specific written

feedback of things you are doing well
and then a thing you can do better.

And just maybe some of it is
not what you're saying, but

how you're saying it to them.

I think of coaching, and leading is,
I think, is really similar in that

how would you like to be coached?

And I talk to our assistant coaches of
being the coach that you want to play for.

So be the boss, be the leader that you
would like to learn from or work for.

And a lot of that is not always
what you say, but how you say it.

And who wants to be screamed at?

You know, I mean, really, who wants
to be screamed at and yelled at and,

and in some ways being broken down?

And so I, I would never
use that way of coaching.

Matt Abrahams: So it's really taking
the time to think about what's relevant

and important for the person you're
talking to, and to remind them that

you're here to also encourage them.

Celine, I know that when you and I
have talked, that you believe that

it's important to prepare when you have
significant high-stakes communication.

Do you have some suggestions
about how people can best prepare?

Celine Teoh: A lot of the advice
around communication that I consume

revolves around the form of it.

But I think what's important to
prepare is just knowing your audience.

Sit there and actually get into their
shoes, get into their personalities,

get into their personas, and really
understand what is it they care about.

What message will resonate with them?

I think real empathy for your
audience is where I would start.

Matt Abrahams: So as you prepare, it's
not about getting the message out, it's

about making sure the message lands.

Thank you.

So Dave, in your book, it's full
of good communication advice.

Is there one thing that stands out to
you that you would share that really

helps with successful communication?

David Dodson: Here would be the advice
that is actually through a lot of the

communication aspects of the book, which
is that you start with having a framework.

Tara was talking about giving
feedback, and how we teach feedback

is that it's, there's 6 parts.

I'm not going to go through the 6 parts.

It's in the book.

But that you learn these 6 parts because
you have to ask them for, for example,

if they're facing any obstacles.

You have to be clear how
you're measuring them.

You have to be clear that
you're giving them support.

And if you learn those basics, those 6
steps, and it's all conversational in

the end, then you give great feedback.

Another framework we have is
when you're giving bad news.

A lot of people give bad news and
they ramble on and go back and

forth and nobody really knows what's
happening and they're apologizing.

Just do it like this.

Just say this.

"This is what happened.

This is the implication.

This is what I learned from it.

This is what I'm doing differently
going forward." Structure

your communication like that.

It'll be conversational,
but have structure around

it so that you cover that.

So that's really done more for me
than anything in terms of being

able to communicate effectively.

Matt Abrahams: Structure is
so critical to effect it.

It helps you and it helps your audience.

Thank you.

So I'm going to ask one final
question of each panelist.

What is one skill or tool you would
suggest our leaders consider, develop, or

hone as they walk into 2026 and beyond?

What's one skill?

Tara, do you mind sharing one first?

Tara VanDerveer: Again, this might sound a
little odd, but I think you want to start

with yourself and take care of yourself.

You want to make sure that you're
getting the sleep that you need, that

you're getting your exercise and doing
things that are making you healthy.

And then I think you're going to be
a much better leader for people that

you feel really good about yourself.

And you can have a great job, and you can
work really hard, but you still have time

for your friends and your family and your
children and taking care of yourself.

So I think it really, it starts with
you and being able to look in the

mirror every day when most of you
brush your teeth every day, I think.

And it starts with how you
approach it, your attitude, and

how you put yourself together.

And I work with so many people
and a lot of young people

that they're so distracted.

They're on their phones
for hours and hours.

And that's, I would also say
that is get off your phones

and take time for yourself.

Matt Abrahams: Okay, so
it starts with you first.

Dave, how about something
you would suggest?

David Dodson: It might be a little
less obvious, but it really builds on

something, Tara, you were just saying,
which is make sure you have time to think.

And I was thinking about, especially
when you talk about being on the

phones and so forth, I mean, we're
just bombarded with stimulus.

And so my leadership advice would be
being able to do deep work and being able

to think creatively and then creating
an environment where the people that

work for you also have that instead of
everybody just pounding through emails

all day long and trying to multitask on
Zoom and every, just take time to think.

That's where the big lightning
flashes of brilliance come from.

Matt Abrahams: So give yourself the time
to think and set up that environment.

Celine, how about you?

What's one skill or idea
you'd like folks to hone?

Celine Teoh: I'm actually thinking
about something you said, Huggy,

which was the mouth and the hands.

I think we should think about
the skill of bringing your

head and your heart into work.

Because in a realm of AI nowadays,
what Dave was talking about, what is

left to us when the AI is smarter,
more logical, knows more than we

do, if not our magnificent humanity?

And that is our ability to feel,
our team's ability to feel.

And so I would say learn to
name your feelings, right?

When you're, as Tara recommends,
brushing your teeth in front of the

mirror or washing your hands and ask
yourself, "What am I feeling right now?

What's one sentence as to why?"
And then do that with your team.

Ask your team, you know, a quick
check-in at the beginning of the meeting.

David Bradford actually recommended this
as the highest ROI move he can think of.

How are you feeling right now?

What's one feeling word?

What's one sentence as to why?

And then go around the table,
takes 5 minutes, and then suddenly

you realize, oh, there's a lot of
heavy stuff happening over here.

There's a lot of light
stuff happening over there.

It's all in the room with
you, so head and heart.

Matt Abrahams: Huggy, how about you?

What's one thing you would
recommend that people consider?

Huggy Rao: Yeah, um, I'd
be glad to do that, Matt.

But before I do that, I really want
to double-click on what Tara and

David just mentioned, and that is time
poverty always leads to thought poverty.

You don't have time, you're not going to
have great thoughts, period, you know?

So here's a story.

I'm gonna take you back
to the Greece of Homer.

Many of you may recall Ulysses,
who of course was described

by Homer in his books.

This story is about Ulysses, and Ulysses
has fought all of these battles, and

he's tired, and he's trying to return
home to meet his wife, Penelope.

And as the ship is sailing, there's
actually a huge temptation close,

and that's the island of the
Siren, mythical demigods, if you

will, who sing haunting songs.

And if you went to the
island, you could get trapped.

And Ulysses had a problem.

He wanted to listen to the music but
not get trapped because otherwise

he wouldn't be able to see Penelope.

And the tactic that Ulysses, or tool
that Ulysses relies on is he tells

his sailors, "Please tie me to a mast
and stuff my mouth with cotton because

I cannot give you instructions to
stop and stay here in this island.

But leave my ears open so I can listen to
the music." And then he tells the sailors,

"You need to stuff your ears with wax
because you can't listen to the music lest

you actually get trapped in that island."

And this is actually a simple
story but for me a very

powerful one about weak will.

I wish I was a resolute chooser,
but I know I have weak will.

And so the tool for all of you is
to ask yourselves what's your mast?

For me, my mast is I'm a morning person.

I get up at 4:30 or whatever it is.

4:30 until 12:00 I'm supremely
data oriented, very rational.

After 12:00 I make fast decisions,
most of which are wrong.

And so my mast is I never make
an important decision after

12 o'clock in the afternoon.

So that's my mast.

So think about what's your mast.

Matt Abrahams: Thank you.

My one bit of advice,
celebrate the failures.

Understanding the failures
can really teach a lot as well

as, as celebrating the wins.

I think that's a great
way for us to wrap up.

Thank you so much for being here.

I want to thank the panel.

Can you please join me in giving a big
round of applause for our panelists today?

Thank you for joining us
for another episode of Think

Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.

To hear the 2025 version of our live
Me2We event, please listen to episode 194.

This episode was produced by Katherine
Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.

Our music is from Floyd Wonder, with
special thanks to Podium Podcast Company.

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