Ep 6 - The Tortured Poets Department Announcement

Jessi & Anna are All Too UNWELL.... Taylor announced TS11 at the Grammys this past Sunday and to say the least, we are still processing it all. We will discuss the initial reactions, the days following, and our first impressions of the track titles. 

Creators & Guests

Host

Anna

Host

Jessi

What is TSPN | Taylor Swift Fan Published Podcast?

We are Jessi & Anna, 2 SwiftTokers who spend our free time down the rabbit holes of Taylor Swift’s art, analyzing lyrics, recognizing patterns, and hunting for Easter eggs. Our main goal is to be informative, insightful, and reflective about Taylor’s art and her impact on pop culture. This is designed to be a fun, stress-free podcast where you can come hang with us weekly as we talk all things Taylor.

This podcast is an independent and unauthorized fan publication. The podcast & its assets are in no way affiliated with or endorsed by the artist or any of the people mentioned or depicted in its content.

All right, Jess, how are you doing girl? I don't
even know. I have no words to put my feelings

in right now. It's shock. I have a lot of thoughts,
a lot of opinions, but I haven't spoken about

them yet.

Hey lovers, welcome to TSPN. We have a lot to
talk about today on this episode. Just a lot.

We don't even have an intro planned for you
guys because there is so much. Taylor wrecked

our plans. So we have to kind of pivot. We initially
were gonna have Nikki on today and we still

planned to have her on, but she has fallen ill.
So she is taking the night off, which is very

convenient given that Taylor is currently in
Tokyo and the lives will be happening overnight.

So maybe she'll be laying in bed catching those
later. Um, so next week we'll touch on all

the things that are the Tokyo shows. As a reminder,
guys, we film a few days ahead. So today is

Tuesday, February 6th. And, um, we just finished
the Grammys. So if this is. where you get your

Taylor news. We got a lot to break to you. Um,
the Grammys was quite a surprise and, um, or

if you're just listening to this, you know,
six months from now, this is the episode that

we found out about. The tortured poets department.
Yes. Oh, the tortured poets department. Okay.

Um, so Grammys let's start with Grammys. How
about that? Yeah. Let's not get too far into

our like just minds here. Okay. So, um, do you
want to do a quick recap? I can fill in the

gaps too. Yeah. So the, this past Sunday, as
we all know, was the 66th Grammy Awards. Taylor

was up for six nominations and she won two Grammys.
Um, she won for best pop album. That was her

13th Grammy that she won. And we'll talk about
her crazy announcement later. Um, and then

the second Grammy she won was album of the year,
the most coveted award in music that you can

get. It is like winning best picture at the
Oscars, but for musicians. Yes. And this is

her fourth win, which sets the record for the
most wins ever. And that's not just so female

woman artist statistic that is ever. Um, I don't
think she really thought she was going to win.

And if she did, she really played it off. I
think she was there for the pop one. Not to

say that she knew anything ahead of time, but
you know, she, she did what she had gone to

do by the time the album of the year announcement
came up. And, um, she was surprised. I think

she's more surprised than the rest of us. I,
I knew she'd win album there. I just had a

feeling, but like, yeah, I don't think she 100%
was confident in that. So I think that her

plan all along was to announce what she announced
when she won her 13th Grammy, because. out

of being her and who she is and being up for
six Grammys, she's going to win at least one

of them. Question. Let's like pretend we don't
know what we know and let's talk a little bit

about how you felt when you first saw her because
you know, there was a lot of clues leading

to rep. You know, we were really thinking that
rep was going to be the announcement. Also,

if you haven't caught it yet, Jesse predicted
this on the last episode. It was, um, her saying

that she thought she was going to announce reputation
Taylor's version at the Grammys and it would

come out on April 19th. She also has a video
she did about it and all the clues and we can

probably get more into that here. Um, but catch
us on our podcast. If you just want the clip

of that, there's a little cut of it, or if you've
already listened to the last episode, you probably

know that she's a mastermind and already figured
it all out. But, um, yeah. So, so Taylor shows

up on the red carpet and, um, in a black. black
gloves all the way up almost her shoulder.

And then the white really, uh, what do you call
it? I was like old Hollywood glam. Like it

was kind of giving me like French, uh, like
I kept thinking of Moulin Rouge. That was all

I kept thinking of. But what were your thoughts
whenever you first saw her? Um, I honestly,

the first time I saw her on the red carpet,
I was very confused. I knew, I think I knew

in the back of my mind, the minute I saw her
that something was a little off. Um, because

she was not dressed in a rep, you, a rep outfit
at all. No, it w it gave nothing reputation.

Well, the colors for people who thought the
colors were rep, they were, but yeah, the,

the vibes were not. I, yeah. And I really think,
I mean, a lot of people say black and white

for reputation, but I really think it's just
black. It is just black. And I was really,

I mean, even the, the gloves, not even just
the colors, just the the like the cut of the

dress and how it laced up the back with the
gloves, with the chokers. It just wasn't reputation.

I was just a little shocked. It didn't match
what I had in my mind. And so I kind of had

to digest that. And I'm like, okay, that that's
a little off. I wasn't thinking TS 11 or anything

at the time, but I was just thinking, hmm, okay,
just file this one away. What'd you think?

I was not thinking TS 11 either. What I was
thinking was again, I was thinking Moulin Rouge

and the lace up kind of like corseted back.
And so I immediately was like thinking France.

We talked about, um, Marie Antoinette and how
Taylor's going to be in, uh, Paris on the 250th

anniversary and there, you know, there were
certain things that I was like French, France,

France. And so I was kind of just thinking it
was an egg for what would become. the next

announcement, I kind of let out on the announcement
thing once I saw her and started kind of thinking

it through. I started looking up like Dita Von
Teese. She does a lot of those like long gloves,

trying to figure that out. And then the other
kind of direction I went was, oh my God, what's

it called? I lost my train of thought. Oh, femme
fatale. Femme fatale. Yeah, I thought femme

fatale. And so I started looking up because
femme fatale is a French term. She looked very...

Jessica Rabbit, you know, so then I was like,
maybe this is the theme of the new album that

we didn't know was coming, but I'm just kind
of clueing you guys into my thought process

and where my Google searches were leading into
the Grammys night once we saw her. And she

had that, the fan, so the French fan, like again,
like to me, I was just reading France. And

so when it She did announce it and it was TS
11. I was still stuck on that. And then she

told us the title and I was like, huh? What?
Yeah, I also thought it was giving me like

breakfast at Tiffany's too with the gloves.
And then, you know, as we know the iconic picture

of her with the cat reminded on the cover of
time, you know, reminds us of breakfast at

Tiffany's. So I think there might be something
to that, but yeah. It was just thrown out.

Well, we have to, real quick, we have to shout
out. our commenters on our TSPN for the Breakfast

at Tiffany stuff. I wish I had the names right
now, but that was one of those things where

once we started posting about it, we started
getting comments and I watched the whole movie

and there are things we can get into that at
some point, but yeah, very valid to be thinking

of Breakfast at Tiffany's. So for those of you
who are not like Every day looking at like

Swifty clues and theories and stuff like that
may have started about six hours, maybe about

13 hours before the Grammy started. So basically
what happened was about, uh, I don't know how

many hours, eight hours or so before the Grammys.
Um, Taylor changed her profile picture to black

and white. It was at 10 57 a.m. Eastern time.
I know that because I was looking for something.

So it's about 13 hours from midnight, which
is where people started like, you know, thinking

something was going to drop at midnight. So,
I mean, right then and there, I knew something

was probably going down at the Grammys like
I have thought this whole time and the black

and white. Again, it does give you rep, like
it gives rep vibes. Well, then about, I don't

know, three hours before the Grammys, about
maybe about six hours before it started. Um,

her website crashed, but it wasn't a website
crash. It was done manually. Like they did

it on purpose intentionally. Yep. And it had
some codes and it had a code on it that was

just a bunch of letters. Well, us being Swifties,
they knew that we would unscramble those and

you got red herring, which a red herring is
a misleading clue. And then it's, and then

they also had under it. Um, they had D. PT321,
like a countdown, and DPT is Tortured Poets

Department backwards. So literally they gave
us the clue and then they gave us the title

with a countdown, here it comes. The website
was back up about a half hour before the Grammy

started. It was normal. But there was a lot
of mayhem going on in the Swifty community

that day. wasn't actually down and it was like
a fake down is good. Right. Like, cause if

it was genuinely down, it's like, you know,
were people flooding the site and I'm sure

that site can handle a ton of users at once,
but if you do flood a website, I can take it

down if the servers can't handle it. So it was
one of those things where it's like knowing

that it was fake is where you're like, this
is clearly a clue. And then the herring thing

and it just didn't, it wasn't giving true 404
error. Um, so that was super exciting. And

then. Um, it did come back up before the show
and then the store was down. Correct. If I

recall the store went down right before it was
locked, I think. Yeah. I'm like that. Yeah.

And then of course they were prepping the store
because what happened after the announcement

was she had, it wasn't, didn't break records.
I think the vinyl sales alone broke a record

of, I mean, this is pre sale first day, how
long did you wait in line to check out because

I know you bought stuff. So. I did. And it all
just happened so fast because my husband had

pulled it up before I even saw the cover and
it was like pre-order. So of course I'm going

to like pre-order, right? I was in line to pre-order
for 38 minutes. That's unheard of. All this

that's happening with Taylor Swift is unheard
of. Yes. Yeah. Mine was 35 minutes. Um, then

I got distracted with my ADHD went on tick tock
and then like later I was like, oh shit, my

cart. So then I went back and luckily it was
still there. But then when I checked out, I

didn't get an email confirmation right away
and I didn't really have a thank you page.

And then I was like, Oh no, did it go through?
But yeah, it's, it's all good. I got my confirmation.

So hopefully my vinyl is in the mail and they
don't punish me for getting distracted. Cause

it did sell out. Didn't it? Um, I believe so,
but I think it's back. Like it might've just

sold out initially with the inventory and they
probably had to figure out. you know, how much

more supply can they make? Yeah, it's unlike
anything I've ever heard, having to wait 38

minutes to pre-order something that doesn't
come out till April, and then it sells out.

That we've never heard from. Yeah, it's crazy.
Yeah, it's insane that we haven't even heard

a note of the album. And the same thing happened
with Midnights, right? Like, so it's not that

crazy, but that level of pre-order on an announcement.
on an album that we literally just have a picture

of at that point. We didn't even have the track
titles. Like, loyal. We are so fucking loyal,

man. We are loyal. Okay, so let's go to the
moment, right? Okay, so she wins for best pop

album. Her speech was literally less, it was
like 15 seconds. Like it was like so quick.

She got right to it. Yeah. And So she says it
as in it's a secret she's been holding onto

for two years. And then after she says that
she puts up a two and gives like a little smirk,

which I think is an Easter aid. We, we just
need to clock that in the back of our minds.

Well, there's been a lot of peace signs she's
been giving. I just realized this because even

she's a tick tock, the one that kind of scrambles
through a bunch of photos and videos. And she's

at the piano and she, anyway, I won't let's
not keep going. I'm sorry. Yeah. No, yeah,

it is. She's like, I've said the doubles, the
peace sign, the twos, like that's still happening.

It's still going on. And so she says, I've got
this secret. And she says the minute I heard

brand new album, I think I blacked out. Like
I really do. Like I caught tortured. the name

and then I was like screaming. I was just like
out of it. I started recording myself and actually

put it up on TikTok, but I look like a lunatic.
But like I wanted to capture what I was like

feeling in that moment. And it was, I couldn't
even get the name of the title out almost.

Like I just, I didn't know what was happening.
Well and you posting it. is a vulnerable thing

to do, but it validates everyone else's experience
to see. I wasn't screaming like you. We had

very different reactions because I was too stunned
to process. I feel like my brain became a revolving

door of thoughts. Things just kept coming in
and leaving. I wasn't really digesting what

was happening. And then immediately, I'm sure
you're the same. My phone just started. popping

off like friends. Obviously we have this podcast.
So I have good friends who may not be the biggest

Swifties, but we're texting me as well. I had
people like Swift talkers. I mean, it was insane.

And do you know who I didn't text was you? I
don't think I was like, Jessie's fine. Like

she's gotta be gone for a while. Yeah, I do.
I need time to process for sure. I mean, I,

yeah, like my husband pulled up the cover and
he showed me the cover and I just couldn't

even like. I really, that's the best way I can
describe it. Like I couldn't process anything

until I think it took me about like an hour
of being like, what is happening? Like what's

going on? Until I really started like looking
at it, looking into it, being like, okay, this

is happening. She just announced TS 11. I don't
think I processed it as reality until we saw

the track list because it like for the while
it was just like a, like just a, is that what

a fever dream is? Should I Google that? Kind
of. I mean, for a while, you look at the name,

the Tortured Poets Department, and you think,
oh my gosh, this could be an album of collapse,

because it can be taken as plural. And we had
that theory rolling around. We had other theories

rolling around until the track list was revealed
the next day, and then it kind of calmed down

on that a little bit. Yeah. Well, and there
was a lot of early kind of discourse around

the name. Um, and how it relates to something
that, uh, Joe Alwyn said on a podcast in 2022,

the tortured man's club. I remember that. You
do. Yeah. It wasn't that deep into the lore

back then. Okay. So that night of the Grammys,
like, I think I might've done one very chaotic

video about the album. And then I literally
haven't done anything on social media until

just two minutes here before we started this,
because so many people are messaging me. And

I appreciate it so much. You guys have no idea.
Asking me what are my thoughts on the track

list, this and that. People sending me videos
of theories. And I'm so sorry, but I do not

watch those. Just because I wanna come up with
my own thing. Like I have watched a few, but

I really wanna like develop my own thoughts
about it before I'm like really influenced.

But I really appreciate everybody reaching out.
But yeah, it did take me a hot minute to just

kind of like reset. That night at the Grammys,
like I was on such a high, you know when your

adrenaline is like, you're on such a high and
then you all of a sudden it just, you crash,

right? I did not sleep. I did not sleep and
I know you never sleep and guys, if you've

listened to a few episodes and we make jokes,
Jesse legitimately is a night like she sleeps

early in the day and will be up all night. So
like that's not us just making fun. Like you

were, you were going to be up all night anyway.
I figured by the morning you would have everything

for me to go through. What's weird is cause
I am such a night owl and I'm normally up all

night and then I sleep while my kids are at
school and then I'm up when my kids get home,

which is just a very different type of schedule.
But it works for me. I've been that way since

I was in high school. It just, I don't know.
It is what it is. Okay. So I literally crashed

at 12 30 at night and didn't wake up at all
through the whole night. That's when you know,

it was like crazy. Right? So I get up in the
morning, I send my kids to school. I crash

again till they come home. Stop girl. Yeah for
those that are listening my shocked face is

big right now like that. Whoa Whoa, it reminds
me like if my husband's traveling or something

when he comes home It's like it's like the anxiety
of you know just being home alone for a night

or two and then he'll come home and I'll zonk
too because it's like it's just it's not Because

it's like oh my big cousin's home and he's gonna
protect me it's just like the anxiety of being

home alone and taking care of the dogs and working
a full-time job and And so when he comes home,

it's like literally this release of anxiety.
And I learned because I didn't know what it

was, but I learned that was the pattern that
like, once you are able to release it, you

just literally can't do anything but sleep.
So that's probably where you were at. You were

just like, your brain was like maxed in it,
like defense mechanism just shut. I think it

did. I think it did shut down because I remember
like as like even when I got up in the morning

to get the kids ready for school, like I didn't
even look at social media. Like I was just

like, I can't even look at this cover right
now. I can't, I just felt emotionally drained.

And maybe it's because I mean, some people might
listen to this and think, oh my God, that's

so silly. It's just an album. Like someone just
announced an album. But like, this is what

I do. Like this is what we do. Yes. Like I'm,
I'm a full time content creator, like about

Taylor Swift content. So when you are, you know,
your life kind of in some sense revolves around

that as part of what you do, then it's very
big news. And for it to be surprise news was

even more shocking. Well, that's exactly how
I felt because I just wasn't happy with myself.

Sometimes you know that feeling where you have
anxiety and it's not driven by anything and

you're just like, I don't know where this feeling
is coming from. I can't explain it. And so

I was talking talking out with my unlicensed
therapist, my husband, and was saying, like,

I just think the feeling that I'm feeling right
now is that I'm feeling really behind. Like,

I think that I feel like everything was clued
up to this, and we, you know, there were some

things that I immediately was like, yep, but
then I'm like, there's so much more. And then,

you know, you get on TikTok and people are already
sending me theories, and I'm like, not that

it's competition to get the theory first, like,
by any means. I just feel like I'm like, I

have so much, I've been spending the last year
going down all these rabbit holes that didn't

like lead to this. So now it's like, we got
to abandon those side quests and get back on

track with this. And, you know, we can always
revisit, but it just kind of felt like, okay,

the train didn't just leave the station. The
train is on different tracks and I need to

figure out like how. And so that's, that was
my instinct as a Swift talker and as a theorist

was this was a surprise and we've got a lot
of catching up to do. And I did feel behind,

like I saw, you know, as you're scrolling, I
mean, people expect me to have a video up with

a ton of theories about the track list. And
I just wasn't there mentally yet, honestly,

to be completely honest. I don't know if I am
even now. Like I have, I have more thoughts

about the track list and like, I can tell you
what came to my mind the first time I looked

at the track list and what I think this album
is and what I think, I think I have a pretty

good grasp on what this album is and how it's
going to go. But if you would have asked me

that yesterday, I just, I've been needing, sometimes
I don't know, I can get very overstimulated

and then I have to just take a beat and you
know, now I'm kind of coming out of the fog,

but. Well, and honestly, that's a good point
is like this episode, we'll get into our initial

thoughts, but I'm sure they'll fully develop
and I feel the same. That's why we're recording

on a Tuesday instead of a Monday. Like you and
I were like, we need an extra day just to think

through because, um, Just because there's so
much and I made a few Tick-tocks last night

about some of the track names that stood out
to me. And one of them, actually they're all

doing very, very well, but one of them is like
over 300,000 views as we speak, and we've gotten

tons and tons of followers, so if this is your
first episode, welcome, um, really excited

about that and I think, um, you know, as somebody
who just started a Taylor Swift podcast, uh,

thank you, Taylor. She's always feeding us,
but this was one of those things where I was

like, holy shit. And I also think about. Like
here's my big take that I love about all of

this is there are so many new Swifties or people
who have loved her music but haven't really

been into theories and clowning that just got
the biggest, you know, it gives me reputation

vibes where when profiles were cut and she removed
everything and she reposted the snakes, like

just the pandemonium of it all and that shock
and that excitement and the unknown. This is

feeling very much like that. And so for those
who were clowning for rep back in November

on her last show on 1126, and we didn't get
it and we're like severely disappointed, and

then we're clowning for rep again at the Grammys
for her to just not give us what we expect

and to give us something more and better. Not
that I shouldn't compare better, it's just

a bigger surprise. is such a gift, you know,
for the newer Swifties or people who are just

now kind of like this is why it's fun. Like
it is so fucking fun. And, and it's music guys,

it's art, it's just joy, like it's not who we
are as people. It's not, you know, it doesn't

define our lives. But it's one of those things
where it's like art is such a huge piece of

our lives. And Taylor's music is such a great
art that we have carried through our lives.

I'm sure many of you have. So like it is okay
to be this fucking excited about a new album.

Right. I mean, Just the thought of us getting
17 new songs in April is just belowing my mind.

Like, wow. Yeah. And the way that I was like,
see, we're never going to release something

in the spring. I definitely was saying that.
You totally said that. Oh my god. We were all

kind of, and I don't even, honestly, you guys,
I don't even know where I came up with April

19th. I think I was just looking through some
Fridays in April and that one caught my eye

because it was... national poetry and creative
mind day, which obviously I've always thought

of her as a poet first, like always. And I remember
doing this Tik Tok. So you can pull this Tik

Tok up my April 19th Tik Tok and it's international
cat lady day. And I'm like, Ooh, that would

be a good Friday for her to release rep, right?
Rep TV, which is what all of us, because I

didn't go off the course of rep TV because I
did that when speak now was coming and I was

hell bent that it was going to be 1989 TV. So
I'm like, I'm not going to veer like that again,

like that. I'm not going to do that pivot. I'm
just going to go along with, you know, what

everyone's saying and it's rep TV. Plus there
were tons of clues, tons of clues for rep TV.

So I saw that and I'm like, I think she's gonna
release it on April 19th. And I showed my husband

the Tik TOK right after I did it. And he's like,
poetry and creative mind day. You're really

linking that. That's a reach, Jesse. And then
he's like, I surrender. Like you were right

on that one. That was stupid of me to say. I'm
like, yeah, damn right. It is kind of corny.

It's like so literal. It's crazy. Like it's
just, it's like an egg I thought I had, but

I didn't know it was an egg. Yeah, well, and
I actually got a text. I think Monica is the

one who told me, Jesse guessed it. I was like,
huh? She did? I'm like, I've not only been

in that episode, I edited it. I listened to
it back for quality checks and I did not recall

you saying that. And so. Um, yeah, I got that
video up right away. Cause I'm like, thank

you for being our, our mastermind. I'm just
the video editor. And no, you are a mastermind.

You're a complete mastermind. I don't, I mean,
yeah. Well, and I did think TS 11 was next.

I had said that several times. I kept referring
to what would be my own coin term, which is

not a good, it's not a good term to coin, but
I was calling it rerecording fatigue. And that's

not for people like you and I, or, you know,
people who are probably listening to this podcast,

you're like, what do you mean re-recording fatigue?
I could get as many as I, as I, you know, at

one a day for the next five days. Right. But
for me, I think about the Swifties or not even

Swifties, right? The Taylor Swift fans who wouldn't
even identify as Swifties because they're just

not that into the whole lore and whatever who
do like her music and have a jointed over the

years for us to get like, speak now, 1989 reputation
and debut all kind of within that. I felt like

those people might not buy every album. They
may not go into every vault song as deep as

you know, and it might just be seasonality with
what they're going through. And so that's why

I called it fatigue because I'm like, if she
wanted to knock them out for her own personal

reasons of owning her music makes total sense.
But I do love that she's giving us a breath

from the re-recordings with new music so that
when we do get reputated, like she's got a

The longer she holds it, the more we're going
to be like, please. Oh yeah. I mean, and the

whole pattern that she's done, you know, fearless
red midnight's speak now 89 poets. So like,

there is a pattern going on there. Um, I'm spiraling.
So what do you think 112 is then? Because we

still have two 16 coming up. Merch drop. Honestly,
I can't I mean like at this point I think you

can still clown for rep if you want to for 216
Definitely, but I can't see her changing the

whole vibe of her website now, which is all
poets To rep TV and then back to poets. I don't

see anything coming before this album is released
I think we're getting different vibes. I think

it's a much softer more intimate vibe you know,
we talked a little bit about the album cover

ahead of this and Nikki made a really great
video. If you haven't seen Nikki King 23's

video about this, it's one of the first albums
that she's probably been in. I don't even know.

I guess 1989, her face wasn't really in it,
the first one, but it's just a different look.

So Nikki had talked about that some people are
saying it's very sexy and sensual and just

kind of thinking, why do we think that? Why
is that art? instinct and I've got some thoughts

as to why people might think that's their instinct.
I don't think it's sexy. I think it's painful.

I think she's intimate and maybe it's good intimate
but that doesn't mean sexy. So what are your

thoughts on the album cover? It never entered
my mind that it was a sexy photo. I remember

thinking she's stripped down, like intimate,
stripped down. But I never saw it like that.

But when I watched Nikki's video and it kind
of clicked, there were some people saying,

oh, it's like her sexiest cover yet, this and
that. I'm like, wow, it's weird that people's

minds would go to that because to me, it looks
like someone on a bed writhing in pain. And

I don't know how to explain it. It's just very
raw to me. Yeah, it's just it's paired back.

And I think. Um, you know, one way that it's
sexy is the dropped shoulder strap, right?

So that's, that's something that somebody might
grab onto the black and the white. Obviously,

um, she's on a bed and I just think, yeah, the,
you know, there, so if you thought it was sexy,

we're not like, you know, coming down and you're
like, well, how dare you think it's sexy? I

just think it's just interesting to think like
that. Um, that we all kind of got different

things. And honestly for me, cause I was going
down like the femme fatale route leading up

to it. So I initially when I saw it was like
femme fatale, I'm on it. And then I looked

at it again, like closer and I was like, oh
wait, no, this is not femme fatale. This is

like you said, it feels very paired back, vulnerable,
intimate. And I do think that we'll see. I

mean, maybe it is a totally sexy, vigilante
shit type album, or maybe it's something that

is a little bit more I would say it's probably
a lot more poetry and pain. Yeah. I think especially

now that we have the track list. So, okay. So
moving on now to what we think the album is

about. All right. The tortured poets department.
The first thing I kind of thought when I saw

it was vulnerable and you just said the word
I'm like, it's tort. She has the word tortured

in it. I mean, if you think about that word
alone, It is just screaming pain. That's a

really good point. I think that's a good context
clue for why when we're looking at it, if somebody's

like, I don't see pain, maybe that's a part
of our instinct. Yeah. And the back cover with

her draping her hand on the doorframe and her
eyes are closed, and she just looks like she's

defeated, like completely defeated. Well, she
was defeated in Midnights. Yeah. There's a

lot of head in the hands. Like we had so many
different album cover versions. I, you know,

a few of them kind of feel that same vibe of
just agony. Mm hmm. Yeah. Some of them do now.

Okay. Let's talk about the elephant in the room.
So I've seen a couple of Tik TOKs or some,

some social media posts about, well, this album
is going to be about a certain someone and

this and that. No, his name is Joe Alwyn. The
album is going to be about Joe Alwyn. Right.

So we get, at least I think this is going to
be the Joe Alwyn breakup album because There's

no way this woman writes one of the best breakup
albums of all time, Red, after dating Jake

Gyllenhaal for about three months. And then
she's with Joe Alwyn for almost six years,

almost seven years, and we don't get any breakup
album or any insight to the art that she made

from that pain. There's no way. Like, this is
it. I mean, I think we have gotten some of

the art from the pain. You know, if this pain
really does kind of, I think this might close

the loop for a lot of what we saw in folklore
ever more. I've even said, you know, back in

the lover days, like Cornelia Street years into
relationships singing, I hope I never lose

you. I hope it never ends. And again, like she
might be singing about somebody else, a different

relationship, a past love. So that's not to
say every song she wrote about Joe or during

her relationship with Joe Albin was about him
by any means. So But I did feel a lot of anxiety

in her music kind of throughout the years that
I took note of just because, you know, being

in a happy, loving relationship, I, you know,
I start to, you start to feel like, okay, am

I going through this? No. Um, and so that's
again, it's not right or wrong. It's just,

I do think there were some clues of the relationship,
maybe not being picture perfect the whole time.

And so this will be very telling. And I think
we don't want to speculate on Taylor's love

life and stuff like that, but she was dating
Joe for six years, right? There's, I mean,

this is not, this is not some speculation. It's,
it's to your point. She's going to write music

about it in a very transparent way in a very
self, um, like biography type way, like she

always has. And through folklore and evermore,
she kind of took a break from that. And midnight's

was a little bit like, is it, isn't it? Like
what, what are these songs? And so, um, it

will be interesting if she does ever come out
ahead of it or after and say, yeah, these are

like biography written about me. Um, which I
believe they probably are. Well, there's, I

mean, not every song might be about Jo Alwyn.
There could still be songs that have to do

with her losing her work and the torture of
that. I mean, I don't think every single song

is gonna be about Jo Alwyn, but like the majority,
it is going to wreck us. Like I wanna warn

everybody ahead of time now, this is a folklore.
I think it's gonna be like a folklore on steroids.

So I think she's, I think it's going to get
dark. I think it's going to get deep. And that's

just my foreshadowing of it. Yeah. I agree.
My mutual friend on Tik TOK, one of my, the

first people I followed, she was the one who
introduced me to the karma theory and stuff.

She had an account with like almost, or it was
a little over 10,000 followers before it got

shut down because of copyright and all that.
Um, but confessions of a Swiftie 13, she made

a video and she said, it's giving sad girl.
autumn but in a fun spring way. I was like,

this is like, this is the it is it is it's giving
sad girl seasonal depression but in a fun spring

way because we're getting into we're getting
into April and so I'm gonna I'm gonna hold

on to that and hopefully that's exactly what
we get. Yeah, I mean, I'm ready for it. Like

I'm I, I don't think this is our Woodvale. And
I've had a lot of people message me, Jesse,

this is your Woodvale, blah, blah. And the more
I think about it. Yes, it's the same number

of tracks as Folklore Evermore, but this is
not. This is divorce of it. This is its own

entity. I agree. And I think honestly, I'm going
to say something really stupid for people maybe,

but the fact that the title is not one word
feels like it's not the trilogy. For those

of you that don't know, this is the longest
titled album Taylor has ever had. Every single

album is one word except for Speak Now, which
was her third album. And because I'm just,

I'm not going to assume everybody knows everything,
you know? Oh yeah, no, definitely. Her third

album, which came out in 2010. Yes. Yeah. Um,
the Tortured Poets Department, it's just different.

When I saw the title, I'm just like, hmm, okay.
So now here I'm thinking, is it produced by

Jack Antonoff or will it be produced by Aaron
I'm getting Aaron vibes and we've talked a

little bit about how they've written all these
songs together. I couldn't find the video or

where he said that they kept writing the night
after the Grammys, but I feel like there was

something there from when they wrote Folklore.
I wouldn't. Okay, so I'm getting Aaron vibes

too, but I would not be surprised if Jack Antonoff
and Jack Antonoff is, you know, lead singer

of Bleachers. He's three times in a row Grammy
winning producer of the year. He has worked

with Taylor on everything since midnights or
not since midnight, since 1989, the original

era. And then Aaron is someone is a producer
who is lesser known. He's with the national

and he kind of came into Taylor's life during
the pandemic. So folklore evermore were very

heavily steered by Aaron. This seems more like
a softer Aaron type of album, but I would not

be surprised if Cause we've seen her recording
so much with Jack. Yeah. Jack did have something

to do with this. I mean, Jack has produced some
of her softer songs, right? It's not, it's

not impossible. Is you're losing me. Was that
Jack? Yeah, because he posted about duh. Yeah.

Well, and that really stood out to me. I think
the, so if you guys don't know, you're losing

me is a bonus track that was gifted to us in
the summer of 2023. So Midnights came out October,

2022. There was various like, versions we got
all these extra tracks and stuff and then in

the end of May of 2023 she's already been touring
for a few months she announces that she has

this song called you're losing me and it's going
to be on CD only at the shows that weekend

I think it was East Rutherford New Jersey yeah
cuz my show was right after and it was that

my show which one was it the Chicago mm-hmm
yeah were you like wanting the CDs and they

didn't show up no I bought like Oh, they were
there. Okay. So it wasn't just that weekend,

but you had to go to the Aira store. Yeah, you
had to be there to get them. Yeah. Got it,

got it, got it. So, um, I was nowhere near either
of those. So, and I also was not that crazy

at the time, but I would do it now. I would
do it now. Um, but so the, you had to get the

physical copy. There were some that were ripped
on TikTok. I think I saved a TikTok video of

it that was had really good audio and I played
it from my camera roll in my car. Like it was,

it was obsessive. Um, But I say all that to
say that was bootlegged on the internet if

you didn't have a physical copy for the better
half of 2023. So you had May until she won

the global Spotify Artist of the Year and she
released You're Losing Me on that weekend in

December and then Jack Antonoff posted on his
Instagram story a picture of Taylor and straight

up said in a very probably not normal fashion
because they don't usually just come out with

this stuff like this. But he said that was a
picture of her right after they had recorded,

You're Losing Me and he gave the exact date
and it was December 4th, 2021, correct? Yep,

right before they had written and recorded it.
Yeah. So really kind of time stamping for us

that You're Losing Me, which is a very devastating,
clear breakup song, likely about Jo Alwyn.

And so when I heard for her to say this is a
two-year-old project, That's one of the things

that connects it to a breakup ball, like a breakup
all when I just coined that a breakup album

about Joe Allwin. Yeah. I mean, the timeline
gets kind of fuzzy. It does when you're looking

at it because. 12, five of 21, her and Jack,
right. You're losing me, which may not be a

full breakup song. It just means you're losing
me. Do something, babe, say something like

they might not have been completely broken up
by then. Um, But I feel like it was something

they held on to and didn't think of releasing
until or unless something were to happen with

Taylor and Joe. Because we have evidence all
the way up through February of 23 that Joe

and Taylor were together. They were out seeing
furniture shopping. They were at the Grammy's

after party together in December of 22. They
were in New Orleans. Uh, Joe was filming the

movie and, and Taylor was there for her birthday.
So yes, they could have been having problems

and she could have been documenting that through
song and lyrics. Um, but the timeline is a

little wonky. I will admit that. Yeah. And the
whole idea of the vault track being like, you

know, the timeline that they released, it was
weird, but I do agree with you. Six years is

a long ass time. That is essentially a divorce.
That is an unraveling of.

And so it's no surprise that they had tough
times. They don't, you don't just like wake

up one day and look at your partner at six years
and say, you're good. I'm good. I'll see you

later. It's like, there's probably many breakups
and coming backs together that happened during

that. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to
do that. I'm not sure Definitely. I mean, it

could have been a really rocky relationship.
We don't know. I mean, it's, some of these

titles, the track titles, let's talk about those
because there are, some of them can seem scathing.

I mean, some of them seem like, ooh, I'm like,
scared to listen to this. So when I first saw

the track list, the first thing I saw was Fortnite
and I was like, the game. And for people who

are listening, who are not in the United States,
Fortnite is not a term that we use. Um, I'm

learning through the comments of some of our
tech talks that it is a more common word elsewhere.

Um, but so all I know about Fortnite is it's
like a video game that all ton. I mean, it

blew up in the U S if it hasn't blown up internationally.
I'm sure it did though. Um, so I'm like, Fortnite,

Fortnite. And then I saw Post Malone and I squealed
and then I just took 20 minutes off. And I

was like, I can't even read the rest. I'm done.
It's heavy. Like when you, and I think the

track list got released sooner than she had
intended because I think there were a few leaks

out there, which is horrible. But again, you're
that big, you're in the music industry. It's

going to be hard not to get, you know, to get
around that stuff. But okay, so we have Fortnite,

which is, I did not know the term meant two
weeks or 14 days. I did not know that. Did

you learn that when I posted it to our podcast
channel? Yes. I thought, I knew it was like

a UK term. But I thought it meant the next night.
Yeah. I didn't know what it meant. I was texting

with Nikki and I had another kind of theory
I'd come up with that I did later make a video

about it and I was like, I'm just sending this
to you guys. I sent it to a little group and

was like, cause I just am too lazy to make a
video. I was exhausted. And then when I thought

of the fortnight thing and I sent it to Nikki,
she goes, you're making the video, get up and

go make the video. And I'm glad she did. Cause
I made that and two others last night. And,

um, They're just simple. You know, these are
not, I didn't really think it through just

like, Hey, here's some lyrical comparisons that
I'm finding just from looking at title tracks.

And they may not be true and they're not that
deep. You know? Well, you had said to, it was

a good video. You had said, you know, midnight's
was 13 sleepless nights and now we're, that's

the 14th night. Yes. Because like the old English,
I think it means two weeks and like, if you're

going to use it, which first off. If you're
from another country that uses Fortnite, I

don't understand how you use that in normal
language. I don't think I've ever said, I mean,

unless I'm saying two weeks from now, but when
do I say that? Like I'll see you in a Fortnite.

In a Fortnite, so is it not so literal? It's
probably not like I'll literally see you two

weeks from now. Probably, maybe it loosely means
two weeks, I'll see you in a Fortnite, I'll

see you in two weeks. Pretty soon, yeah. Yeah.
We probably sound really dumb if we're way

off, but I just never have said I'll see you
in two weeks type of thing. But the literal

term that Google pulled up, which we know Google
is fact, so the internet is never lies. So

what I saw from Google search and clicking twice
and not going too deep into the whole lore

of this old English word was that it meant 14
nights originally. Now it's kind of like 14

days or two weeks. The whole 14th night thing,
I was like, holy shit. It's 13 sleepless nights

is midnight. Obviously we got more than 13 tracks,
but maybe it's the 14th night or maybe it's

kind of saying like we're through with midnight
and this is the next turning of the page. Well

and another reason I think this is probably
about Joe Alwyn is that April 19th was the

great unfollowing where everybody unfollowed
him on Instagram. Like Gigi. But Ryan Reynolds,

Blake Lively, the Himes sisters. I mean, there's
something that happened. We just maybe don't

know what it is yet, but we're about to find
out. I mean, she doesn't hold back. No, she

doesn't. And to toot your horn for those who
are listening who have heard that elsewhere,

you said that two weeks before all this happened.
You were saying it's gonna be Reputation Taylor's

version and it's gonna be tied to Joe. because
Joe was a huge influence on reputation, but

you were just a hair off of that. It was about
Joe, it's just not reputation. Right. And if

you think about him being her muse, and she
even says on the back cover of poets, my muses

became bruises. Joe, she's mentioned Joe being
her muse several times in her music, and it

started with reputation. So you have reputation,
lover, folklore, evermore. Midnights, like

that's five albums this man could have inspired.
And you're telling me we're not going to get

some kind of breakup album art out of this.
I don't think so. Yeah. My instinct is that

midnight's was if they were broken up, let's
start there. I don't mean to speculate, but

if they were broken up, midnight's might've
been, um, uh, you know, a palate cleanser for

us to say like, Hey, things are not as good
as they seem. And I mean, if they PR rolled.

out the breakup news, then they did it very
well because we got a little taste that things

might be off. They broke up. We started saying
Midnight's is the breakup album, putting the

clues together, and then You're Losing Me comes
out, which is a lot more devastating. And she

fell in love in the meantime, which I think
is fucking fantastic. I think that there's

going to be a lot of people who come out, especially
people who just hate Taylor Swift anyway, and

are like, well, if she really loves... Travis
Kelsey, why would she be writing an album that's

a breakup album? Like, you know, clearly she's
not over Joe. And it's like, no, she's a songwriter,

she's a poet. She has always, you know, through
art and through lyrics, written her life story.

And she's not gonna skip a chapter just because
she jumped ahead to finding love again. I think

it's serendipitous that she did, but like, doesn't
take away from the fact that this album probably

needed to happen for her. Exactly. And I was
kind of thinking that if she's going to release

a Joe breakup album, it needs to probably happen
soon before her and Travis start, you know,

it continues. But yeah, I mean, she could have
been working on this for, you know, a year

or two, and she's not going to give that up
because she's dating somebody. I can see the

next album being more Travis centered, but she
needs to get through this musically first.

Well, and there could be some Travis inspired,
right? Kind of like the ending maybe, like

maybe it gets hopeful and, and she finds love
again. I mean, red had begin again, like there,

you know, there were songs on red that weren't,
you know, completely devastating. And who knows

a couple of these might even be about Maddie.
We, we don't know. I mean, you never know.

So we go to the second song, the tortured poets
department, which is the title track. Um, I

really, there's a few of these I have some thoughts
on, but until I really listen to them, I'm

not gonna like, people are like, claim your
track or like, you know, blah, blah. I don't

know. I got to hear them, you know, three, my
boy only breaks his favorite toys. And my first

thought was, I think your first thought was
this is why we can't have nice things. Yes.

Yep. The other thing I was thinking of is shiny
toy. You know that I bought it. Like that reminded

me of toys at the end of that track three. And
so I made a video relaying relating those two,

right? The bad boy shiny toy with the price
and saying he broke his favorite toys. Somebody

else actually multiple people now in the comments
talked about better than revenge. And she says

soon she'll find out stealing other people's
toys on the playground won't make you very

many friends. And so that's just another great
example of her referencing people as toys.

I think we're going to see, since this essentially
I think is just going to be absolute poetry,

I think we're going to see callbacks to old
lyrics. So she, I mean, in her own way, I know

she says she doesn't want people speculating
about who this and that is about and she wants

it to be, but part of her marketing is us knowing
who it's about, you know? And it's a brilliant

marketing strategy. Well, it's really for her
not to say because what she does and doesn't

confirm people will talk, right? There's plenty
of things throughout the years that even people

don't think Dear John is about John Mayer, right?
They think it's about what it was at Martin

Johnson or something. So like, I've never heard
that. Have you not heard that? Yeah. And you

know, and then when she did the Dear John surprise
song this summer, she said who you think it's

about. And so people then of course that validates.
Anyway, I say all that to say. The more that

we don't know about the details, the more we
talk and she loves this and we love it. Like

it's great. Like there's nothing weird. Maybe
it is weird, but we have mutually agreed that

this is part of the fandom, which is us kind
of scoping things out. And no, we're not speculating

that she's dating somebody who she was seen
10 feet from on the red carpet. Like it's,

it's clearly a relationship she was in. Right.
She clearly told us she was in love with Joe

Alwyn. Like, I mean, six years. I mean, she
told us in the documentary it was, it's been

a thing. And I just feel like this is so connected
to that. And then I see her following this

up with, because this is going to be a depressing
album. Like, I'm just forcing that right now.

It's going to wreck us. And I cannot wait. I
know. You guys get your taxes paid, get your

sunlight in, get the spring ready and then be
ready to like literally go into your house.

Like just and knock it out. Get into like a
dry bathtub with a bottle of wine and just

shut the lights off and sit there and listen
to it. But okay, so track four, Down Bad. Like

that track scares me already. Down Bad. And
my initial instinct was because Usher is playing

at the Superbowl this weekend was the she's
got it. She's got it bad. I know it's not related

whatsoever, but I just think God that's like
down bad with like a depression or something

is what. So for those of you that don't know
too, track fives are her most vulnerable songs

on the album to her. Um, so her track five is
called so long in London. Oof. Yeah. And I,

the first thing I thought, cause of course you
look at a track list and you run to track five.

So for those who are newer to Swifty hood, like
Jess said, she has confirmed that that's not

speculation that track five's are her most emotional
ones. Um, all too well was a track five, if

that gives you any context. Um, and so, um,
I initially thought of you're on your own kid

because you're on your own kid is from midnight's
track five and it's about You know, being in

another stage and realizing you're on your own.
And so the idea of like, so long London is

very much like, you know, like I'm moving on
new life. Moving on literally too, because

she, she had a flat there with Joe and Joe's
obviously, you know, from London, he's London,

he's the London boy off of lover. Um, And it's
like, this might not be just about her losing

that relationship, but like maybe the relationship
she had with his family and friends and the

city. I mean, how can you ever look at the city
the same again? Yeah. Well, and one thing you

just made me think of with the London thing
was April 19th was the first shots that were

fired in the American Revolutionary war against
the British. which is the biggest level of

fucking petty. I love it. I love it so much.
And I don't mean that like, I love the British.

Like we're, as with hundreds of years ago. So
when I say I love it, I'm not talking about,

oh, we succeeded the British. Like whatever,
that's old history. I mean, like the fact that

she chose a date and she's written songs like
London boy, and you know, I love the British

and stuff like that. Then I think that's another
clue if we don't have enough already that this

is the breakup album. Yeah. Cause really Joe
hasn't said anything nor has he done anything

to give us any insight into the breakup or the
relationship. So the first shots fired are

from her. I mean, really. Yeah. Well, and it's
the start of the, you know, the seceding the

union. I'm just making up terms. That's not
actually what they did in the revolutionary

war. I think that was the civil war. Yeah. I'm
not real good on history. That is a weird day

to pick. I mean, yeah. Yeah. So I'm, I'm nervous
for that one, but London boy on lover is like

one of my favorite songs. So I'm so sorry. I'm
so sorry for your loss for me. Um, okay. So

number six, but daddy, I love him, which is
from the little mermaid. If you don't know,

but daddy, I love him. Yes. Um, So the Little
Mermaid, as we know, and I've done several

videos about her link to the Little Mermaid,
it came out in 1989, the same year Taylor was

born. And it's about essentially a woman who
loses her voice, gives up her voice for the

love of her life. And maybe Taylor did give
up some of her voice for Joe because she was,

she mentioned in the Time article that she...
was out of the public eye for years because

they were so private. And she said, that's time.
I can't get back. Yeah. So, ah, that one, I

thought for the longest time that, um, the little
mermaid reference because she dresses a little

mermaid for Halloween recently, what? Like 2022?
Um, no, that was about, Ooh, that was back

in like 2018 or 19. Oh, okay. Like probably
during like the lever. But yeah, it was because

it was right around whenever she had her master's
sold and all of that. So to me, that's how

she lost her voice. Um, and the other way that
it's linked, which I'm sure you've thought

of. Well, there's also a link for this title
track to Harry Styles as well. And, uh, you

know, if, if you follow Harry Styles or you're
in into all that, like I'm a huge Harry Styles

fan, but I remember the fandom back then. he
famously wore a shirt that said, but daddy,

I love him. And it just made like these, it
was just like a ripple. Like people were just

like, it's so in awe. Like he's wearing the
shirt, why? But like I said before, there's

been this back and forth and I have it in my
TikToks about like the lion ring and her wearing

the lion ring and then the gold Russian Eagle
street and his video. There is something there

and I don't know if a collab is coming, but
I could see it. Yeah. What the hell are they

doing? Honestly, I was thinking about the daddy,
I love him t-shirt and, um, the fact that if

she had not fallen in love with Travis Kelsey
in such a convincing way, not that we, you

know, just not fake. It's not like she needed
to convince us, but like, we are all, we know

it. We'd be like, is Harry still on the table?
Is, is this another not like, you know, you

would think, are they going to get back together?
Um, and so it's kind of nice to like, you know,

know that that's not. the possibility, even
if it is a reference to Harry or there's something

there. You know, and I say it's nice to know
because, you know, not everything could be

a mystery. We got to have some things that are
planted in fact. And so we do know obviously

she's in love with Travis Kelsey. And so if
this is referencing Harry, it's probably in

a platonic way or in a reflective way. I also
had the thought that it could be about Maddie

because I can see her parents not necessarily
loving that relationship. And some friction

there. Um, I could see that. Okay, so when I
first read it, because I didn't, I don't go

that deep into, you know, little mermaid lore
like you have, and I also, um, didn't think

of the Harry Styles shirt. So as a normal person,
no, I'm just kidding. Um, I thought of, um,

love story. The song. Mm-hmm. You know, because
her dad said she couldn't marry him and she's

like, but daddy, I love him. So I was like,
oh, this might be the Romeo and Juliet kind

of. Vibe. See, and there's so much, this is
so cool that you can have this discussion just

about track titles. But like, we're not gonna
really know till we hear the songs. These are

just like speculation points. But number seven,
fresh out the slammer. Okay, the minute I saw

that, the minute you could be my jailer. Yes!
I made the video on that one. Yes, so in rep...

Are you ready for it? There is a line that Taylor
says, you can be my jailer, which you call,

we call Joe and Taylor jailer Burton to this
Taylor. So she, we know she loves to like Burton

and, um, Elizabeth Taylor. Uh, so she's kind
of saying to Joe, you can be the Burton to

my Taylor, you know, my Liz Taylor. Um, and
now this is kind of like a play on that fresh

out the slammer. Like she's. out of yikes, like
out of jail, but also like, did she feel suffocated

and locked up during that whole time with Joe
where that he wanted to keep things so private?

Potentially. So you've got, you know, the idea
of being locked down, but locking down could

be a good thing. Like you got to lock that down,
girl, lock it down. I see a lot of people talk

about Joe as if he's done something horribly,
horribly wrong. And I haven't seen that yet.

So like I keep saying in my tech talks and I've
said it on here, I don't have a reason to dislike

Joe at this. No, you loved Joe. Like you're
a big Joe Stan. I think that's good to go on

the record and say that like you, you love,
and you probably still have respect for it.

And that's the thing to your point where you're
headed. I'm just going to finish your fucking

sentence. I'm sorry, but like he hasn't done
anything. Agree just publicly that we're aware

of. So maybe he has like, again, maybe that's
what's coming. But at this time, it's like,

we, you know, we just have to understand that
two different people and that he's done some

shitty shit, like the tortured men's club comment,
right? But like that doesn't make him like,

you know, the worst person on earth. Um, but
maybe he is, and we're about to find out who

knows, but we, we gotta let Taylor tell us and
not get too far into our assumptions. And,

and that's what even like, when I said, even
after you're losing me, I didn't feel like

it was that scathing of a song. Now, if we get
this album and we find out he cheated on her

or something crazy, then yeah, that might change
my perspective. But if it's just poetically

about people who are in different places in
their life and they're moving apart, I mean,

like I said, I've always liked Joe, always still
like Joe. But if he did cheat on her, fuck

that guy. Yeah, no kidding. So track eight is
Florida with three exclamation points featuring

Florence and the Machine. I have no idea what
this one is. None. Florida. Zero. No, it's

just so funny. It's like a, I don't know. I,
it's my kind of humor. Like, what the fuck,

Taylor? Florida, three exclamation points. Like,
it reminds me of the slut, you know, where

you're like, what? Like, I don't even know when
she's been to Florida, other than playing in

Tampa. I don't know. That's, that's when I'm
really interested in hearing, honestly. I'm

interested in that one. Yes. Nine. Guilty is
sin? Question mark. As in a question guilty

as sin. I don't know. I don't really have much.
Do you on that one? No, not really. I mean,

I've seen people talk about like holy ground
and stuff. Not holy ground. What was the one

false God, you know, like she's alliterated
to God and holy stuff before so maybe don't

blame me. Yeah. Number 10 who's afraid of little
me? That one right away caught my eye and I

just thought of who's afraid of Virginia Wolf.
Oh, you did. Yes. Immediately. Tell me about

that. I saw that in a comment and I didn't know.
I mean, there's the overstimulation of what's

happened. Like to your point, you're not big
on watching other TikTok theories or anything.

I just get it on my for you page. I go my for
you page for my own just like internal enjoyment

of life. And so I feel like I saw. the Virginia
Wolf thing in the comment and it clicked where

I'm like, I'm going to rely on Jesse to figure
the fuck out with that because all the inboxes,

if you guys are sitting in our inbox right now,
I apologize. I know we've gotten several messages.

So just know that like since Sunday life has
been a little bit on overload. Um, so anyway,

I saw Virginia Wolf's name and I was like, that's
random. Jesse's going to figure it out. So

the fact that you just said you did or you thought
of it, um, as well, cause I've seen several

people. It's obviously something people are
thinking about. What does it mean? What is

it? Okay. So it's a play, right? It was a play
in a movie and it's kind of based upon this

married couple. I need to watch it again, honestly.
But interesting enough, guess who plays the

husband and wife, Burton and Elizabeth Taylor.
That would make sense why other people would

have drawn that conclusion too then. Yep. And
the play, which is different than the movie

came out on October 13th. So there's some ties
there for sure. Um, but I'm going to have to

rewatch the movie to get more into it, but I
just, the minute I read that title, I was just

like, Oh, who, you know, who's afraid of Virginia
Woolf. It's gotta have something, cause I think

that all these might have literary connections.
They might, yeah. We gotta brush up on our

poetry. I'm like still in fucking art history
mode over here and I gotta start reading haikus.

I think this is gonna be a definite quill pen
album. And then for those of you that don't

know what I'm talking about, Taylor categorizes
her albums and her songs into three different

sections. So she has fountain pen. songs which
most of them fall into and that's just about

her life and like all too well. Okay. The lyrics
just flow because they're so part of her life.

I'm just making that up. Is that true? Yeah.
No, that's true. Like a, like a fountain pen

just goes. Yep. And then the second category
would be the glitter gel pen songs, like Shake

It Off, you know, like the fun, Not Too Deep.
Me. Yeah. And then, um, you have the quill

pen songs, which are like Ivy and ever more
and, um, tolerate it. And it's, it's more literate,

like old literary works like Wordsworth and
Emily Dickinson, Charlotte Bronte. Like that's

what I'm seeing my vision for this album. I'm
seeing it being more of like a quill pen. Like

a vintage quill pen. Um, which I love. I mean,
that's my favorite type of writing from her.

Mm-hmm. So you said, who's afraid of little
old me? I thought of when I used to fight,

when I fight, you used to tell me I was brave.
I don't know why. I can't really one-to-one

it. That's interesting. But just being like,
you know, when, isn't that like, when I used

to fight, you used to, it's like when you don't
sing it, it doesn't sound right. You used to

tell me I was brave. That's from My Tears Ricochet,
which is a track five. on folklore. So it's

a significant song, but yeah, just being like,
I always loved that lyric because I'm like,

you know, you think about when you're in love
or in your relationship and you're like, yes,

but he told you you're brave now I'm fighting
you and it's not, it's not looking so brave

is it? So. Yeah. And it's interesting that she
says who's afraid of little old me when in

midnight she compared herself to a monster on
a hill. Oh, maybe that's where the lyric or

the not the lyrics, the literature comes in.
Maybe the little old me, the little old lady.

I don't know. I'm just making this up, but there
could be some. Um, it could be a tie to that

for sure. I, um, think that this is, this album
is going to be the hardest for us to decipher.

Yeah. And the years of work. Yeah. The most
poetic call back to other albums, other lyrics,

other events in her life. That, I mean, there's
going to be theories and analysis on these

songs for years. I know that's why I felt so
fucking behind man. I was like, I just felt

like I'm like, I'm still, you know, figuring
out the re-records and the 1989 vault tracks

and here we are getting a whole new album. Like
I love it. I that came out like I was upset

about it. It's the best thing never happened,
but it's going to be a lot. It is. And it's

I'll be ready for it when it comes out. Like
I'll be ready. You're not ready for it. I was

thinking of that lyric when I was, I was thinking
about that earlier. I was like, The fact that

she started reputation with, are you ready for
it? And at the time we weren't ready for it.

I'm like, that was like conditioning us for
what she just did on Grammy Sunday, which was

the biggest really surprise. I feel like that
we've had as Swifties. We were not ready. No,

we will be ready by April 19th. We're we're
doing our homework. I have time to let it sink

in for sure. Track 11. I can fix him. No, really
I can. That's I have thoughts about this, but

I'm going to wait. I'm going to park those thoughts.
You are. I just, uh, when I heard, when I saw

that, I was like, that is God, that is such
a relatable situation, even if you're in middle

school or high school, I mean, it doesn't have
to be like you, you know, you're in with somebody

who's terrible and you're trying to truly fix
them. Everyone felt that way in a situationship

that is not meant to be. Yes. It's relatable.
I think to a lot of women. too. Um, and it's

one that I'm really looking forward to hearing
honestly. 12 is love of my life, but she has

it all lowercase and it's L O M L is how she
has it written as the track, which is very

weird. And it goes against everything else on
this album because everything else is in caps

starts. Are you sure it's love of my life though?
I think so. I mean, that's what I got from

it. That's the abbreviation for it. So we got
a comment hours ago that said, you know, what

if it's last on my list? And then I started
thinking of the Gary Peabody song, the last

time from red, which is this is the last time
I'm asking you this, put my name at the top

of your list. Oh, interesting. See, this is
interesting. We don't really know. We're not

going to know. And like, that's just an inkling.
I'm sure they had an inkling and I replied

to it and I was like, Oh my God, the, again,
I just mentioned that song. Cause when I read

last on my list and she's made the top five
reference before. So like the idea of like

love, meaning a list. Um, well, if it is, I
mean, if it is love of my life, Harry does

have a song called love of my life. Got it.
Okay, Harry. Not saying that's going to have

anything to do with this. I'm just saying like
they have shared titles of songs before daylight.

Um, yeah, I, or maybe she'll just make weird
noises like a lawn wall. That's the chorus.

It's just interesting to me that it's all lower
caps. It just gives me a callback to like folklore

evermore. You know, it does. Yeah. And it obviously
the rest of it is very case sensitive. I believe

every other title had capital letters on everything
and everything. That's odd. Very odd. Track

13, I can do it with a broken heart, which,
oh my god, that's going to wreck us too. Tolerated

baby eye can do it. When she rips the dagger
out of her gut, she can do it with a broken

heart. That's what I thought of was the sequel
to Tolerated potentially. That's a good theory.

Um, okay. 14, the smallest man who ever lived.
That's interesting. I don't have anything for

that right now. Do you know what I think it's
going to be? I think we, this is going to be

a, like a slut track, the one where she came
out with slut and we all thought it was going

to be glitter gel pin pop, you know, is going
to be an anthem. I think. people are going

to suspect that this is going to be like a vigilante
shit tear down. Like I'm calling you the littlest

man that ever lived, but I feel like it's gonna
be really fucking sad. Like, I almost wonder

if she takes those lyrics into a term that is
more like, you know, it's sad that he feels

that little or that he, you know, acts like
that. I get, um, Like scooter brawn vibes.

Yeah. I mean, maybe it will be the vigilante
shit. It kind of falls on that part of the

album. She, uh, she bought vigilante shit near
the end, just to kind of give us a, I mean,

we gotta have one, right? I really hope there's
some vindictive lyrics here. Like, I hope it's

not just depression. Like I want something that
you listen to and you just like want to take

a knife out of the cupboard and I'm just kidding.
I'm just kidding. Disclaimer, just kidding.

Yeah. Just like, Nope. No, I think that we're
still, we're still going to get our dose of

petty from her. Yes. Okay. So track 15 was the
alchemy. Am I saying that right? The alchemy.

You're asking me how to say something? No, I
don't fucking know. Okay. So this, I tried

to Google what this was and I don't understand
it. Okay, hold on. Well, let's pull it up on

Google and I'm going to play it. I'm going to
play what Google says. Okay. Alchemy. So yeah,

alchemy. So essentially it's something about
chemistry. Do you want me to read it? Here

I'll read it. So according to Google in the
very first dictionary reference it pulls up,

because this is probably one of those words
where there's several meanings, but it says,

it's a noun, the medieval forerunner of chemistry.
Well, what the fuck is a forerunner? Come on.

Okay. So the evil forerunner of chemistry based
on. the supposed transformation of matter.

It was concerned particularly with attempts
to convert base metals into gold or to find

a universal elixir. Oh, so this is another bullet
point in the definition. It says a seemingly

magical process of transformation, creation,
or combination. Taylor, this is going to be

one that we're going to have to deep dive. But
one of the things that stood out to me was

converting base metals into gold. The gold,
because golden was what she used to refer to

Joe as the color. Yeah. And that's the only
thing I got out of it. I don't really understand

what it actually you guys, if you guys have
a better way of putting this into like layman's

terms for us, please leave us a comment because
I am interested to hear what someone tell me

what it is. Like a teacher would. Because I
don't understand it. If you're listening to

this on a podcast and you can't comment, run
door YouTube and while you're there, subscribe

self promotion. Um, but I, yeah, if you want
to comment there, I do agree. And the other

thing it made me think of is turning water into
wine. Like, uh, you know, cause there's lots

of references to wine through her work. So I
don't know if that's literally alchemy, but

when I, again, these are just my thoughts that
came through when I was reading these things

was if you're turning a base metal into gold.
You can also turn water into wine. Interesting.

Yeah. It's, I need someone to really explain
that to me, but yeah. Um, okay. So 16 is Clara

Bow and people started researching Clara Bow
the minute this track list dropped, she was

an American actress who rose to stardom during
the silent film era of the twenties and then

successfully made a transition to talkies in
1929. So. With my, I did take movie history

in school and I remember that a lot of actors
and actresses had a very hard time transferring

from silent film to talkies because their voices
like did not match their looks or they couldn't

act. Or so it was, I mean, that's rare. That
was rare. I got it, I got it. I'm sorry, I

have to butt in and make a Patrick Mahomes joke.
But do you know what I mean? Like his voice

does not match. Travis does such a good impression
of Patrick. Mom. Yeah. I saw, I think it was

on like the NFL's tick tock or something where
a reporter had asked him to do his best Kermit

the frog impression and he was like, I'm just
doing it while I talk or whatever. Like he

played it off. So he knows he's in on the joke.
So I'm not being a bitch, but yeah, the whole

voice doesn't match your. Yeah. Especially it's
almost like if you've ever met some, like I

work remotely and people in my life, uh, that
I work with, I don't see in person except maybe

once a year. And a lot of times that's the first
time I met them. And it's like, wow, you're

taller in person or you're shorter. You know,
it's like, it's like, you start to kind of

develop your own understanding what they look
like. And so I think it's the same thing with

talk to, or with silent movies to the talkies
they call them is that people probably had

fine voices. It just didn't match what you expected.
Yeah, true. That's, and it's so funny because

even on like TikTok and stuff, so Um, Courtney,
a lot of you guys know her Euro sweetheart

as her Tik Tok name. She's one of, she was one
of my first friends that I made on here really.

And one of, one of my really good friends and
we, we met up, uh, last summer and she came

over and she was so tall. And I'm just like,
I did not picture her to be that Tom, like

girl, you are so tall. She's like, I know it
doesn't come across in my videos like that.

I'm like, Oh my gosh, but like I'm also only
five too. So I might be like a lot. Okay, we're

the same height. Okay, so like, yeah, you just
never know. But but like, okay, so there's

a lot with roaring 20s sex symbol it girl, I
mean, is what I'm getting from this. The dates

aren't like jumping out to me at all of like,
on clara bow. She's beautiful. That was the

first thing that stood out to me when I googled
her was just Oh, damn it. Here's another actress

or, um, you know, historical person of pop culture
that I had no reference to just like, um, Rebecca

Harkness and, uh, you know, anyone else that
Taylor's referenced in the past. So it was

just, it's kind of fun. I like it. I do too.
I do too. I'm wondering why she has a song

named Clarabelle. I'm excited to hear that one.
She has, uh, this could be something though.

She ended up doing 46 silent films and 11 talkies.
So 11, TS11. I do think, you know, there may

be something that she gleans from that. I do
think going back to the Ariel from the Little

Mermaid losing her voice, you know, a silent
movie actress who then found her voice in the

talkies, maybe there's something there. And
it's, another thing is this is the last song

on the album before the bonus track. So it's
gotta be like important. There's a reason she

put it last, which is interesting. Yeah. Track
17 is the last track and it's a bonus track

and it's called The Manuscript. And this one
is actually the one getting the most attention.

Like we've seen artwork for it and a little
bit of the vinyl. And it's just, I feel like

she wants us to know right now that that's going
to be a very important song. And my first thoughts

with Manuscript was... I still think Taylor
is going to write a book and we know she is

going to write and direct a movie, so an original
script. So this could have clues or something

to do with her movie. Yep. Well, and does she,
can you recall a time where she released an

album and only mentioned the featured track
as part of that release? Like the bonus track?

The bonus track, thank you. Not the featured.
Like, no, I cannot think of. No, it's weird,

right? It is weird that she's even calling it
bonus, right? Like, it's not just the 17th

track, it's bonus. Which is odd. I don't know
the logic there, but. I also, here's a prediction

that I'm going to make that I might stick with,
actually. I can see us getting TS12 before

the end of the year. Yeah, because of the twos.
Because of the twos, but also because This

album doesn't seem like an album that's gonna
hit like Midnight's did, like with the pop,

single after single after single. This is gonna
be more of a stripped down, intimate folklore,

right? But folklore, one album a year, so there's
that. But I think this, like I said, this is

going to be a devastating album. And I feel
like she's gonna maybe wanna follow it up before

the year's over with the Travis album, the lighthearted,
the in love, new reputation type of thing.

But that's just a thought that I'm having. I
could see that. I could see that, especially

in the sense of like not mulling into the depression
too much or to your point, maybe it is a part

two version of it, like a folklore evermore,
but the themes change and the light starts

to come out. Question about the Arrows Tour.
Do you think that she would start incorporating

these songs? Like where's your head at with
this album? I think it'll just be surprise

songs after it's released. I don't think she's,
even though I think it is a new era, don't

think she's going to add it in the eras. Like,
I don't think she's going to have a section

for it. I don't think so either. She doesn't
for debut. So, you know, it's not like unheard

of. And obviously with vault tracks and stuff,
she just incorporates them. I agree. I think

she may surprise song them heavily. You know,
she might make the rule where she could do

them more than once type of deal. But it's hard
midway through the era's tour to create a whole

new era with set design and mood. Not because,
I mean, logistically it's hard, but it's also

like, we don't know the mood. I don't know if
Taylor knows the mood. Sometimes I think the

mood develops with the growth of this and the
success of the album and the things that she

produces after. So I tend to agree with you.
I would be shocked if she inserts another chunk

into the era's tour for this. Because I really
don't think there's a whole lot of time to

change. I mean, I know she's off for April,
but that's not long enough to change what a

meticulous set the era's set is. No. Like you
got to take into account lighting. pyrotechnics,

LED, like the, you know, the interlude music,
how fast she has to change. Like it's not,

it's not easy to just throw a section in there
somewhere. You just, it's not. For sure. I

think for me, one of the things that this kind
of starts to put clarity on is maybe we are

going to near the end of the era store because
I can't imagine her adding a whole another

year or anything to it if she has new music.
that's ready to potentially tour or whatever

that looks like. So I'm not saying yes or no,
it just, it kind of makes the vision a little

clearer that it's maybe coming to an end. Yeah.
It's, it'll be interesting to see. So, so obviously

Jesse and I have a lot of thoughts. This is
just kind of our initial conversation surrounding

some of these pieces. We know that we're wrong
on a lot of things. These are just guessing,

just talking about the track titles and what
we thought initially. And so. Um, we will continue

to discuss this. Um, obviously on the next few
episodes, I mean, few, we've got a couple months,

but hopefully it goes fast. Um, as we get more
stuff, maybe she'll do some lead singles. She

did not for midnight. So we can't expect lead
singles, but, um, it's a really exciting time

to be a Swifty and to have a Swifty podcast.
So we appreciate you guys for always listening

and, um, you can leave us comments on YouTube,
the Q and a. Our poor Q&Aers. First off, I've

been getting actual submissions from the Q&A
on tspotnetwork.com, but we also have been

getting comments. So if you've asked questions
and comments, just know that we are, we're

paying attention and we're clocking some of
those. And at some point, if Taylor calms down

and doesn't keep giving us free content to talk
about here, we will definitely scrub through

those. But as always, we appreciate you guys.
We are so grateful to be Swifties. We are so

grateful for all the love we've gotten in this
podcast. And this is just gonna be such an

exciting year. So we love you guys. Bye.