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The Life of And podcast is for high-achieving women and working parents who are ready to stop living a life of “have to” and start designing a life they actually want. It’s a space where we talk honestly about the things we’re often afraid to admit — even to ourselves. The exhaustion. The ambition. The loneliness. The joy. The tension of wanting more without losing yourself in the process.
If you’re in the thick of it — feeling stretched, tired, hopeful, driven — this is your invitation to take a breath, get real, and find your way back to your own Life of And.
[00:00:00] Brian Kavicky: It is okay to say, I'm sorry, but I'm sorry is meant to be for the other person. You even said it. I almost apologized and then wasted her time. You knew it wasn't for you. Mm-hmm. You're doing it for you because if you, you think, if I say I'm sorry, then I get off scot-free.
[00:00:20] Tiffany Sauder: I'm Tiffany Sauder, entrepreneur, wife, mom to four girls and a woman figuring it out just like you.
[00:00:25] Tiffany Sauder: If you're tired of living a life of have to and finally ready to build a life of want to, then you're in the right place. Come on, let's go build your Life of And.
[00:00:43] Tiffany Sauder: Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Life of And Podcast. I am your host, Tiffany Sauder, and we are jumping on the mic with Brian Kavicky again today in our partnership with Lushin. And we're talking about. Sometimes we go broad, sometimes we go coaching, sometimes we go esoterical.
[00:01:02] Tiffany Sauder: This is like a very, very specific tactic that I wanna talk about today, or like a very specific thing. And I'm finding it's creeping into my own brain a little bit as I'm like in this season of just like super busy. And so when I was getting ready to prep for this episode, I was like, Hey bk, this is what I wanna talk about.
[00:01:21] Tiffany Sauder: So that is, I'm gonna name the topic, name the podcast episode, why you need to stop apologizing. Well, first of all, lemme say Brian, welcome back to the show. I've lost all of my manners. All of my manners.
[00:01:32] Brian Kavicky: Thanks. It's okay. Your thanks. You didn't say I'm sorry. Which is good.
[00:01:38] Tiffany Sauder: Your thanks felt just as, just as disingenuous as my welcome.
[00:01:42] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. This is where we're at in our relationship. Yeah, I didn't apologize. That's a good sign. You know, I've been very honest with everybody around me that I am in level 10 execution mode in so many places in my life. I am naturally wired. I'm an Enneagram three, so I'm ruled by efficiency. And so when I get into these seasons where it's like, and we're off, it's like every part of my efficiency ecosystem inside of my body is firing at all cylinders.
[00:02:12] Tiffany Sauder: And it's like, if you are in my way and you are not efficient, I am going to eat you like Pacman. You know? So that's maybe a different conversation, but in that season that I'm in. I am finding that I'm a little behind where I'd like to be on things. So an example this morning at like five 40, I texted you, Hey, we were recording today and I won.
[00:02:36] Tiffany Sauder: I almost said, I'm sorry I didn't get you ideas beforehand. 'cause I usually like to get you stuff two to three days ahead of time so that your brain can work. But I'm not in a mode where I can do that right now, or I choose not to do that right now. And I caught myself to not say, I'm sorry, I just need to own my choice.
[00:02:56] Tiffany Sauder: So that was one where I almost said, I'm sorry, the other, I have this lovely woman that I so admire that I so desperately wanna get on her calendar and I have been on. Pack up mode, execute my calendar, all of these things going on, and I almost started my email back to her with, I'm sorry it took me so long to get back to you.
[00:03:16] Tiffany Sauder: And then wasting her time to explain what I was doing instead, which is so annoying. So I know not to do these things rationally, but I, I know not to do these things to ex to apologize and to explain away my chosen behavior as an adult. But I thought this could be. I'm finding it creep up as I'm busy and being like, oh man, I know I'm not for everybody right now.
[00:03:42] Tiffany Sauder: I know I am moving really, really fast. I'm finding that little tick that says Maybe you need to apologize for yourself. Maybe you need to apologize for your timing. Maybe you need to apologize for being awkwardly efficient in our intro as you come onto this podcast. You know, maybe I need to apologize for all of that instead of just owning it.
[00:04:04] Tiffany Sauder: So I wanna talk about. With you? Where does this come from? Why does that become our social crutch? And what does it do in these interactions when we are apologizing all over ourselves and maybe we shouldn't? So,
[00:04:18] Brian Kavicky: okay. Where would you like to start?
[00:04:20] Tiffany Sauder: Well, I think let's start with like, where does it come from, because I think people mean it to be polite, actually, but I think it's more manipulative.
[00:04:31] Tiffany Sauder: But anyways.
[00:04:33] Brian Kavicky: They mean to make it look polite. So where does it come from? So this feeling of saying, I'm sorry, typically comes from you. You learn it at some point in your life when someone was critical of you. And even though it never worked out for you, you still think that's what I was supposed to do because that fits the criticism.
[00:04:56] Brian Kavicky: So when people are critical of you, you tend to apologize 'cause they're mostly being critical of how what you did affected them. Mm-hmm. And so you say, oh, I'm sorry. And what you don't realize is that every time you say, I'm sorry, people get more critical with you. But that's where the habit starts to occur is, oh, I'm criticized, or I'm in a situation where I could be criticized, I'm going to apologize because that's what people do.
[00:05:21] Brian Kavicky: But in the end, like you said, well I think it's a little manipulative. It's totally manipulative. It's not conscious manipulation. Sometimes, a lot of times it's just a habit. I mean, there, there are people listening that say, oh my gosh, I say I'm sorry all the time. I feel like I'm always apologizing to people.
[00:05:38] Brian Kavicky: Yes. But if you ask yourself, why are you doing that? It's a mechanism of self-protection. It's actually a very selfish behavior. So if I did something, like if I said something to you right now that. Was not very nice and I didn't mean it to be not very nice, but you, I could see by your face that you were taking it like really hard.
[00:06:03] Brian Kavicky: I might say, Hey, I'm sorry if that came out wrong. I did not mean it to be that. And I can tell by your reaction to do that, but you didn't criticize me. But if you said, well Brian, that hurt my feelings. And I go, oh, I'm sorry. That conversation is not gonna go well. So there is a place to apologize. It is okay to say, I'm sorry, but I'm sorry is meant to be for the other person.
[00:06:29] Brian Kavicky: And in all the circumstances. You said today where I was a little bit late and I'm doing this, I'm doing this. Those were actually you protecting yourself. You even said it, I almost apologized and then wasted our time. You knew it wasn't for you. Mm-hmm. You're doing it for you because if you, you think, if I say I'm sorry, then I get off scot-free.
[00:06:49] Brian Kavicky: Mm-hmm. Yeah,
[00:06:51] Tiffany Sauder: well, and like if you show up late for a meeting or an appointment, it's like, oh, I'm sorry. And then you do not bless me with an explanation. You're just delaying the thing getting started. Anyway, let's just roll. We don't need, so what do you say instead? So we don't have like some written contract that says I need to get you an outline for the podcast three days before, but I generally like to do that so that you've got something to do with your brain.
[00:07:16] Tiffany Sauder: So even me apologizing was not violating some, I was like, I, he, I never, never tell him I would do this. It's just been my observed behavior. And so if I were, Brian and I were gonna be on the podcast with Tiffany soon, I would expect something from her, but she hasn't sent it to me. So I've worked with you for 12, I dunno, 155 years.
[00:07:35] Tiffany Sauder: So I don't feel a sense to take care of your feelings 'cause you hardly have any A and also B. That's not true. I'm thinking, no, it's not true. So what is the thing to say? Just what I did is like, Hey, I'm gonna own my behavior. This is where I'm at. I'm just, don't, I have not chosen to create the capacity to do this at the time?
[00:07:56] Brian Kavicky: Well, you, you said it there, you said, I am not choosing to take care of your feelings. However, what your actions actually did was take care of my feelings. So you're, you're deciding not to take an action actually gave you the action that it was because your literal text said. I'm a little behind on my prep this week.
[00:08:15] Tiffany Sauder: Yes.
[00:08:15] Brian Kavicky: That is facts.
[00:08:17] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah.
[00:08:17] Brian Kavicky: Be and, and the example you just gave of when somebody comes late and they say, I'm sorry, and they don't give the explanation, the explanation, and the fact is actually what you're looking for. I mean, imagine that person comes in late and said, I got in a car accident on the way here, and it took a little bit longer than I thought to have it resolved.
[00:08:38] Brian Kavicky: I'd be like, oh my gosh, are you okay? Well, they just go, I'm sorry. That tells you that there is no explanation. And the only reason they're saying they're sorry is because the explanation is not good. Because saying what the fact is would put them in a poor light and they're self-protecting by saying, I'm sorry,
[00:08:57] Tiffany Sauder: is it manipulative to say thank you for your patience?
[00:09:01] Tiffany Sauder: So this is what, in my other example, which is this woman reached out and said, Hey, let's get time. It makes my brain hurt to go to my calendar and find time. It's not something I enjoy doing. And when I'm. Just slammed. It like takes, it's like a lot of mental capacity thing from my brain. And so it's like, it just gets pushed and she was wanting time with me, which I really appreciate, but it, it wasn't necessarily something I necessarily had to prioritize this week, giving her time back, you know what I mean?
[00:09:29] Tiffany Sauder: Like my calendar availability. So I said, thank you for your patience. I'm in the middle of getting our house ready for the market, and it's eating my calendar. Here's my availability, so I didn't apologize. Is saying thank you for your patience. Almost worse than a pretend. I'm sorry. 'cause I, it's like, well, I didn't get to,
[00:09:50] Brian Kavicky: did you feel bad saying
[00:09:52] Tiffany Sauder: it?
[00:09:52] Tiffany Sauder: I didn't feel bad saying thank you for your patience.
[00:09:54] Brian Kavicky: Yeah. There's a different like gratefulness.
[00:09:57] Tiffany Sauder: Okay.
[00:09:58] Brian Kavicky: Like, but if you said, I'm sorry I'm moving right now, that would've come off weird. But if you say thank you for her patience, I'm in the middle of moving. That is, I'm grateful that you're not adding pressure to my life.
[00:10:11] Brian Kavicky: And that's truthful.
[00:10:12] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah.
[00:10:13] Brian Kavicky: Now, because most of the time when people say, I'm sorry, they're not sorry.
[00:10:16] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah,
[00:10:17] Brian Kavicky: that's true. I mean, if you say you're sorry and it's for the other person's benefit, that's when you're actually, sorry,
[00:10:25] Tiffany Sauder: instead of your own guilty conscience kind of feeling. Yeah. So one of, as I was like setting my brain on this, so I also.
[00:10:34] Tiffany Sauder: Uh, love decoding words like guilt. You know, it's like there's productive guilt. Like, oh, this is a values violation and I need to come and apologize because I've done something. And then there's like pretend guilt, like, oh, I'm sorry I didn't go to the PTO meeting. It's like, eh, didn't want to, just felt awkward saying I didn't want to, you know?
[00:10:53] Tiffany Sauder: So I actually think this whole apology thing has a similar vein to it, where when there is a values violation, like what you said with. Oh my word. I'm seeing that your body language is respon, is like I was not intending to make you feel a certain way. Can you tell me more about that? I'm super sorry. The values violation is, I don't wanna say like it's an authentic use of an apology, but we socially use it in all kinds of ways.
[00:11:20] Tiffany Sauder: It has nothing to do with a values violation, has everything to do with. Yeah, making our egos feel better, deflecting a little bit to some of our own planning, you know, poor planning, just serially late, not respecting your time, not wanting to do something, and not having the courage to say that part of it.
[00:11:38] Tiffany Sauder: And so we like veil it with, I'm sorry.
[00:11:40] Brian Kavicky: Yeah. And you can tell when somebody's has it as a habit. It's almost like crying wolf too. What it is. It's, it's a racket. And a rocket is a, is a behavior that isn't a positive behavior that you get some benefit from. I'm sorry. Typically, it gives you a free excuse without an explanation.
[00:11:59] Brian Kavicky: It gets people to not go after you, any of those things, and that's, that's why you, that's where the manipulation is. I remember, this is a long time ago, but we used to go out to lunch to this place and there was a day where we had really bad service. I mean. She would come to our table and she would realize that she didn't have a pen.
[00:12:19] Brian Kavicky: And then she'd come to our table later and she realized that she had nothing to write with, and then she forgot about us for a while and all of those things. And we actually didn't leave her a tip, but what she did every time is she's like, I'm so sorry. I forgot my paper. I'm so sorry I forgot this. I'm so sorry.
[00:12:35] Brian Kavicky: I forgot this. The next time that we went in there, we were like, Hey, whatever happened to that person? She was terrible. The bartender goes. Yeah, that day you were here, she got diagnosed with like stage three cancer, so she was all over. Now, if she just would've said, I'm having a tough day.
[00:12:53] Tiffany Sauder: No,
[00:12:54] Brian Kavicky: I'm not all together.
[00:12:55] Brian Kavicky: I just got a bad medical diagnosis. Please work with me today. We would've been like, here's a hundred dollars check.
[00:13:02] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah,
[00:13:03] Brian Kavicky: same behaviors. But the posturing of what she did actually hurt it because she was a person that mm-hmm. Was in that I'm sorry mode all the time, instead of just being honest and to her fairness, that might not be something she wanted to share with people at that time in the first place.
[00:13:21] Tiffany Sauder: I wanna take a quick moment to thank my partners at Share Your Genius. For the past four years, they have been an incredible part of my journey behind the microphone. Share Your Genius is a content and podcast production agency that helps leaders and brands bring their message to life. So whether you're trying to find your voice, develop a content strategy, or get your leader behind a microphone, they're gonna help you make it simple, strategic and impactful.
[00:13:45] Tiffany Sauder: I, I feel like I also see it come up early career when you're like in this learning stage and like somebody gives you feedback and especially in like client services. I just gave you a recommendation and you gave me feel. It's like, oh, I'm sorry. I should have, and there's a way where it takes your power away
[00:14:03] Brian Kavicky: because people know that that's not authentic.
[00:14:07] Brian Kavicky: When you say, I'm sorry. As I was coming into my office, I passed somebody in the hall. He was turning a corner. I was going a different way. He doesn't work here. He was doing some maintenance and he goes, I'm sorry, in the hallway because you turned a corner. You're sorry. And I look at him and go, why? Why did you say you're sorry?
[00:14:24] Brian Kavicky: We almost bumped into each other. But it's not like it's your fault and, and it actually causes people to get more upset with you. Because they know it's not authentic or real. And it's a mechanism of self protection versus for your benefit.
[00:14:39] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. Because just be like, oh geez. Excuse me. I almost ran into you.
[00:14:42] Brian Kavicky: Yeah. That, see, that's owning it. Uhhuh, I almost ran into you. My bad.
[00:14:46] Tiffany Sauder: I, I, I hear it. I feel like when sometimes I'm mentoring young women or if they reach out for help with something, they'll say, I'm sorry to bug you, or, I'm sorry to ask for your time, or, I know you're busy, but I feel like I know you're busy is like.
[00:15:03] Brian Kavicky: Almost you heard, but you heard, you heard the last bit. I know you're busy, but which be, which basically says everything before. I know you're busy, but I don't care. Yes, you hear that very quickly. Yes. I don't care.
[00:15:15] Tiffany Sauder: Which is okay, if you don't care and you want my time, it's more about how, why don't you put work into thinking about how me giving your time is able, is I, and not that benefit me, but like.
[00:15:27] Tiffany Sauder: Hey, this is what I see in you. This is what I'm trying to learn. I talked to a woman yesterday and I wanted her time, and I said, would it be in your heart and aligned with your priorities if blah, blah, blah, like, would you do this thing for me? And she was like, oh my word. Totally. Because then I know she's busy and I didn't wanna say, I know you're busy and I know asking for your time, but 'cause I'm like, I didn't wanna put myself in this reactive posture.
[00:15:49] Tiffany Sauder: I was like, if this is in your heart, like it's aligned with what you care about and you feel like you could make the time. Is this something that you would be excited about exploring? And I was like kind of happy with myself for how I po PO positioned it. 'cause I was like doing it from a position of strength.
[00:16:05] Tiffany Sauder: 'cause if she told me no, I wasn't gonna be like, oh, I shouldn't have asked. I'm sorry, I knew you were busy. It was more like, no problem. I'm excited to find somebody who is in a place where this is aligned with her heart and with their priorities, you know?
[00:16:17] Brian Kavicky: But you could just as easily have said, I'd really love for you to do this.
[00:16:22] Tiffany Sauder: Yes. And just pitch it.
[00:16:24] Brian Kavicky: Yeah. So there's varying, there's varying degrees, but the the clarity of, let me just be clear. This is what I want.
[00:16:31] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah.
[00:16:31] Brian Kavicky: It's very helpful to other people to know, okay, this is what you're looking for.
[00:16:36] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. It's true. That actually makes me think of, I don't know if this is really, I remember Oprah Winfrey saying, can you please just tell me how much money you need and what it's for, and don't stop with the whole thing.
[00:16:47] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. I was like, ah. It feels so refreshing.
[00:16:50] Brian Kavicky: Yes. So,
[00:16:52] Tiffany Sauder: so what other things do we say other than, sorry, that become a trap for us? Or how does, sorry, show up in sales. Let's start there first. How, sorry. Used in a way that has no value in sales.
[00:17:04] Brian Kavicky: Like somebody that's cold calling, apologizing for cold calling. You didn't pick up the phone to apologize.
[00:17:10] Brian Kavicky: You picked up the phone for a benefit. It should be a benefit to that person. Why are you apologizing? If what you do can help them. Mm-hmm. So it shows up that way. I'm sorry that I am late in doing something. A lot of it is I never committed to do anything but do it anyway. It's mostly reaction to criticism and your phrase.
[00:17:30] Brian Kavicky: You lose your power, your ability to be a peer when you do that because you're falling into this role of I'm subservient to you when you're really not. I'm sorry for asking you this question 'cause I don't understand. You could just say, I don't understand. It's the little flare of I am sorry, which is emotional protection for yourself.
[00:17:53] Brian Kavicky: That cues the other person that this is not a good intended thing. It's like, I'm sorry. I need to ask you a super direct, very important question. What's your budget? You didn't hear any of the question because you had all that stuff. It doesn't help anything. Yeah.
[00:18:09] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. You're saying just say, I need to ask you what your budget is, instead of saying, I'm sorry, I need to ask you for your budget.
[00:18:14] Brian Kavicky: Right. Yeah. Why would you apologize? Both of you, you need to have that conversation, so have it. Mm-hmm.
[00:18:19] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think the first thing is just omitting it. Like when you find yourself getting ready to text it or getting ready to say it, just like, ah, just put it on the shelves.
[00:18:29] Brian Kavicky: I get a lot of questions from people going, this is how I feel.
[00:18:34] Brian Kavicky: This is what the facts are. I wanna ask this question of you, and I said, well, shouldn't you just say everything you said to me, to them? I. And they're like, oh yeah, because it's this, I'm worried about what I'm about to do. Like, I'm sorry, is just a symptom of I'm worried about how you're gonna take it. And that comes for, I care so much about what you think of me, that I'm gonna protect myself from what you think of me.
[00:18:59] Brian Kavicky: And that's where the manipulation is. I'm, I'm working to control your feelings
[00:19:04] Tiffany Sauder: instead of just letting it be a business conversation. Right. Yeah. Just let it be, just let it sit. So. If people have been listening along, I, they know I have little time and lots of goals and so we talked about my cookbook and we talked about how a cookbook is about managing your daily behaviors against your goals and priorities.
[00:19:24] Tiffany Sauder: It's like doesn't match, it doesn't work. Just to have an outline of where you're headed. This is like the stuff I have to do every day. So I like you would, well, what do you think I'm gonna say?
[00:19:37] Brian Kavicky: I wanna change some of my goals.
[00:19:38] Tiffany Sauder: No, I wanna say this, I started off hot because I love a new anything and I am, I'm not as good of a maintainer as I am a starter, right?
[00:19:48] Tiffany Sauder: So in the last couple of weeks I have really sucked. I sort of at my cookbook, like just generally making it happen. And the second thing is just like keeping it updated. It like it's administrative and I'm not naturally good at those things. So I was observing to myself, why are you doing this? Are you avoiding it because it's stuff that you want, don't wanna do?
[00:20:10] Tiffany Sauder: Is it just that there's a lot like what's going on? Sydnee and I, I think I've gotten to the place where my root cause is. I'm not scheduling time on my calendar. To do my cookbook things. So everything else is taking my time. Right.
[00:20:25] Brian Kavicky: And your priorities in your life are dictated and spoken about through your calendar.
[00:20:29] Brian Kavicky: So show me your calendar. I know what you care about.
[00:20:32] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah, so this was my que because I'm like, when I'm at my computer, when there's days when I'm parked in my seat and doing my stuff, I get my cookbook done because I'm in front of my computer on days where yesterday. I got up at about Crackle four. I worked out, I did not get to the shower until 6:00 PM I had people at my house helping, helping me pack my house.
[00:20:55] Tiffany Sauder: My kids were in and out like crazy. JR was gone. I had like four different calls I had to take, but nobody had to see me in person. It was just like, it was just like a hairball of a day. Got a ton done, but not my cookbook and I didn't update it. So I'm asking, you have the same thing. You have client meetings, you have days where you are not behind your calendar.
[00:21:16] Tiffany Sauder: You have days when you're traveling. So I was like, your context are a different list of things in mind. You are not a person who's every day looks the same. So I was, I was gonna ask you. How do you manage that in the different, I mean, I'm just saying you in Kansas, something crazy. What does that look like?
[00:21:33] Tiffany Sauder: How do I manage that and how can I get this?
[00:21:36] Brian Kavicky: It, it goes to, are you, are you setting a standard that you set for yourself, but nobody is holding you to?
[00:21:42] Tiffany Sauder: Well, Sam's holding me to it.
[00:21:45] Brian Kavicky: I'm saying Who said you have to update your cookbook daily?
[00:21:49] Tiffany Sauder: Well, even if it's once a week, both of those things are not happening.
[00:21:52] Brian Kavicky: Okay. Well, so. The answer is put it on your calendar to make sure it happens if the cookbook is important, 'cause you know those things lead to your goals being, it has
[00:22:02] Tiffany Sauder: to happen. 'cause when I do those things, good things happen. And when I don't, I start to feel behind and I start to feel panicky and then I start to be mad.
[00:22:11] Brian Kavicky: Yeah. So is the issue, you didn't do the stuff on the cookbook or you didn't record the stuff on the cookbook?
[00:22:16] Tiffany Sauder: I did not Both.
[00:22:19] Brian Kavicky: Okay, but that means it's working because you, you now have visibility into I'm not doing these things that I'm supposed to do, and it's eating you up right now. So the thing you do is you go, okay, what am I gonna do to fix it?
[00:22:35] Brian Kavicky: Like stop looking backwards. What are you doing moving forwards?
[00:22:38] Tiffany Sauder: So like posting consistently on social media. Let's use that an example. 'cause it's like it's very easy for a lot of us when I do that consistently. Good things happen. There are times that I'm flying around like an idiot all week long. And so getting something posted feels like a herculean effort and there has to be weeks for you if that's the case too.
[00:23:00] Brian Kavicky: Did you know that this was gonna be a busy week? Yes. So why didn't you write all your posts and schedule them so that you wouldn't have to post this week, but you'd still honor your cookbook?
[00:23:12] Tiffany Sauder: I think there's two things. I think. One is I'm in a season where I'm managing so many things. I have a lot of prep, and so I did not make the capacity to do that, or I didn't recognize the need to do that is probably one.
[00:23:25] Tiffany Sauder: Then I don't actually, do you use a tool to post automatically on LinkedIn for you?
[00:23:30] Brian Kavicky: I don't use a tool on LinkedIn, does it? You can schedule writing on LinkedIn. Oh, you
[00:23:33] Tiffany Sauder: can?
[00:23:34] Brian Kavicky: Yeah. Huh. So if I know I'm going into a busy week and I post that I want to get out, I'll just do 'em all and then schedule 'em and they pop up when I tell 'em that's how you, like, you don't wanna post something at like two o'clock in the afternoon, you, I mean, my audience, I want like 10:00 PM or super early.
[00:23:52] Brian Kavicky: I'll schedule the time.
[00:23:54] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm. So I think it's that. So I just have to schedule it. I think I just need like, honestly half hour, three or four times a week where it's just like cookbook activities and I just have to pound through it,
[00:24:07] Brian Kavicky: but also accept that the cookbook is doing its job because it's showing you what you're not doing.
[00:24:13] Brian Kavicky: Mm-hmm. So that you have this little, oh, I gotta get on this stuff to actually examine this in the first place. Don't wallow in like you've been failing at something. It's like, oh, this is a good feedback. Yeah. Yeah. I am fallen short. I need to adjust how I'm doing it because the goals are still important and the activities are still important, so here's the tweak and move on.
[00:24:34] Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm. Okay. Helpful. Alright. Last thing, we talked about maybe doing a goal setting virtual webinar experience with my audience. So I actually, I wanna. Have you talk about what that would look like. I, you are not prepared for this, but you do this a lot. So, and see if there's interest. And I was gonna send it out to my newsletter list too, be like, Hey, if we can get.
[00:25:01] Tiffany Sauder: Feedback on, is this something that the audience wants? Then let's set it up and do it. Goal setting is not something that I teach 'cause there's a lot of people that do that well. I'm more about what are the priorities that get you to your goal? And what are the systems that make, you know, decide at once.
[00:25:15] Tiffany Sauder: Do it always so that you can keep the momentum in life and have space for the things we really want. But we're coming up on your end. At the beginning of the year, you and I had talked about like, what are ways that we can just bring even more value to the audience? And I think a goal setting, like, okay, a hundred percent of you listening to this podcast have the intention of setting goals.
[00:25:36] Tiffany Sauder: In my informal poll of my peers, we are really good at setting work goals and really good at having work, personal wishes, but we don't really sit down and say, what am I gonna do? And then the Life of And Academy can help you actually break it down and actually get there and do it. So talk about what that would look like, and then I'll take a little package of this and share it in other episodes as well.
[00:26:00] Tiffany Sauder: But what would that goal setting exercise, how much time would it look like and is there pre-work that anyone would need to do?
[00:26:08] Brian Kavicky: So it would be, it would start with examining why goals aren't set. So all the things like, why do I have wishes? Why can I prioritize yet I don't have goals, I don't have. Real personal action plans for myself.
[00:26:22] Brian Kavicky: Why is that? And understanding what a goal is supposed to be. 'cause a lot of the things that are taught, like smart goals and that stuff actually harm your ability to set goals, which is why people don't. So shifting. What is a goal? Where should it come from? All of those things. We typically do an exercise that examines, it's called life's roadmap.
[00:26:41] Brian Kavicky: It examines your life. And it helps you figure out what's important and where your priorities are as a foundation for what those goals should be. Then we talk about thinking bigger, like a bucket list, and how do I take that bucket list instead of making that a lifetime? How do I start knocking things off like next year to my bucket list?
[00:27:02] Brian Kavicky: And then we switch to short term is what can I do in the next 12 months and how do I put that into an action plan? And then the last piece is typically, here's the friction and how to remove the friction so that goals happen. It takes a while to go through those because people aren't in a habit of just sitting down and going go.
[00:27:19] Brian Kavicky: Mm-hmm. Um, so it is a interactive thinking, all of those things. And that means no prep because if you say, Hey, come with goals, people are gonna come with like two. Mm-hmm. And the whole reason they come to something is this is 'cause they come with two and they need to have 10 or more and they don't know how to make their brain work that way.
[00:27:40] Brian Kavicky: So that would be the exercise.
[00:27:42] Tiffany Sauder: And about how long would it be a couple different sessions, Brian, or just one? What would that look like?
[00:27:47] Brian Kavicky: Yeah. 'cause what I, what I just described is about a three to four hour process. So it would be a couple of sessions. Okay.
[00:27:54] Tiffany Sauder: So I, I guess just message me on LinkedIn, like DM me or email tiffany@tiffanysour.com.
[00:28:01] Tiffany Sauder: That's kind of our general email. And Sam, I'll take a look at that and let us know if this is a session you'd be interested in doing. Probably in like the. November timeframe, somewhere in there. And it would be virtual, but I think it could add, I'm wanting to do it selfishly. So you told me a couple months ago, I should just turn this podcast into the thing that I need right now.
[00:28:22] Tiffany Sauder: So here we go. And I was also talking to my hairdresser just had a baby and so I have a, you know, a temporary one. I was chatting with her a little bit and she's my age, and I was talking about how there's something about. Being in this middle age of life where you're so in the commitments that you've made that your mind stops having the courage and the capacity to dream of it being, of life being any different than what it is because at the very same time, your brain is trying to figure out, well, how the heck would I even sit any of that in?
[00:28:54] Tiffany Sauder: There's no time to pee, so there couldn't possibly be time to sort of create and dream and have adventure and these things that I think often can kind of get rung out of our lives over time. So I don't know. I think I feel for some reason this is in the foreground of my brain right now and it's like, no, we have to demand that life continues to have adventure and excitement and newness and exploration and risk and trying because when we stop using that muscle, it atrophies inside of us.
[00:29:27] Tiffany Sauder: And so I think this is a way to like get out of our day to day, get out of. What our notebook always says and be like, no. What if I really stopped and thought about this really intentionally?
[00:29:37] Brian Kavicky: And what you just described, the lack of all those things is what causes people to get burned out and tired and exhausted and all that stuff.
[00:29:46] Brian Kavicky: Like you don't get tired of having an adventure or looking forward to something cool. Doing something you've never done before that you think is exciting or achieving something, you don't go, yeah, I just need less of that. The middle age kind of range is you've got a lot more comfort zones. You've got a lot more routines and patterns you've set in.
[00:30:06] Brian Kavicky: You've got all that stuff and all of that is competing with change and setting new objectives, new goals, new ways of being is all gonna test your comfort zone.
[00:30:18] Tiffany Sauder: So say that again? You said you don't get burnt out from adventure and change. You get burnt out from the mundane. Yes, that's exactly right.
[00:30:26] Brian Kavicky: Unless you're chasing the dragon of something that is, that stretches you and pushes you, that is where burnout and, and it has to be aligned with purpose. But that is where burnout starts to occur.
[00:30:39] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. Is when you're just like doing the same. It's
[00:30:42] Brian Kavicky: another day.
[00:30:42] Tiffany Sauder: Totally. And that's exactly what she was saying.
[00:30:44] Tiffany Sauder: She's like, I get up, I do these things. I come to work, I go home, I do these things. We watch this show, we go to bed, we do it all over again. And I was like, is it fun? She's like, not really. I was like, yeah,
[00:30:58] Brian Kavicky: no. You actually wake up tired.
[00:31:01] Tiffany Sauder: Totally. You're exactly right. You're exactly right. So you asked me at the beginning, this before we pushed, uh, record like how I'm doing and I was like, well, I'm doing all the things I said yes to.
[00:31:13] Tiffany Sauder: Like, it is a life of adventure right now. Are you burned out? Uh, no. I'm not burned out a little tired, but I'm not burned out. Yeah, good question. All right, so don't apologize for yourself, people. Let's set some killer goals for 2026 so that we can like crush it like. Total baddies and schedule time for your cookbook.
[00:31:35] Tiffany Sauder: 'cause I'm gonna start doing that and then next time we check in, you ask me how I'm doing, Brian. Okay.
[00:31:39] Brian Kavicky: All right.
[00:31:40] Tiffany Sauder: All right, sounds great. Thanks for listening. If you guys wanna connect with Brian, there's a link in show notes to contact him. Set up 60 minutes, give him your biggest problem. That's what I do all the time.
[00:31:48] Tiffany Sauder: Brian problem in and then he tells me not what to do, but walks me to the solution so that I can take command and control over my life and over my goals. The world that I want to influence. So Brian, thanks for joining me. Guys, go crush your life. Talk to you on the flip side.
[00:32:05] Tiffany Sauder: Thanks for listening to the Life of And this is your weekly reminder to keep making bold choices, saying clear yeses and holding space for what matters most. As always, if you like this episode, I'd love for you to drop a review and share it with your friend. It's the fastest way that we can grow the show.
[00:32:20] Tiffany Sauder: Thanks for joining us. I'll see you next time.