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Chasing the Game: Youth Soccer in America is a weekly podcast for soccer parents, coaches, and players who want to understand how youth soccer development really works in the United States.
Hosted by two dads, filmmaker Liron Unreich and investor Matt Tartaglia, the show covers everything from grassroots soccer to elite pathways like MLS NEXT and ECNL. Combining data, real experience, and expert insights from academy directors, college coaches, and former pros, each episode explains what families truly need to know.
Weekly episodes focus on the core aspects of youth soccer: player development, coaching culture, college recruiting, tryouts, travel costs, and the challenges of parenting in youth sports in today’s competitive environment.
For families navigating youth soccer’s complex system, Chasing the Game offers practical advice, credible voices, and relatable stories from two dads working to make sense of American player development, one episode at a time.
Imagine asking an MLS next Academy director
what your child needs right now.
Then asking the Division I college coach what will
matter three or four years from now.
The Then get to ask someone connected to the professional
side of the game what separates the players and who who
really has a shot
Normally, three different conversations.
Not today, Matt, it's one.
We deliver three for the price of one.
This is what we do at chasing the game.
For something that didn't even cost any of our listeners anything.
This is our inflation buster.
Our guest is Tom Bowen.
Tom is the Academy director of Long Island Soccer Club of MLS Next.
He Works with players inside one of the most competitive youth development
platforms in the country.
He's also coaching as assistant coach
at the division one side Hofstra, also based on Long Island,
where he sees directly what translates
when players move from youth into the college game.
And with the long Island professional Project on the horizon,
he's also connected to another layer of where the game may be headed locally.
So Tom isn't looking at the pathway from one seat.
He's looking at it from all three.
So, by the way, he is making us look lazy, that's for sure.
So in this episode, we talk about what young players are
really missing, what college coaches are actually seeing and how
much maturity matters and what changes when
the game gets faster, older
and less forgiving.
We covered a lot of ground in this one.
Academy standards, college recruiting, late developers,
biobanding, winning versus development,
and what a real pathway on Long Island could actually mean.
All right, let's not waste any more time.
Let's get into it.
This is Chasing the Game
Liron Go ahead, for those of you who
have a little bit of an accent that
means that you know a lot about soccer.
You grew up in a different
soccer culture for sure.
And then, um, now you're coaching in
the United States in multiple levels.
gimme like a fundamental difference
that, that immediately just, you see,
Tom: I think the, I don't wanna use
the word maturity, but I think you,
you've gotta grow up really fast.
In the environment that I grew up playing
in kind of the locker rooms that you'd
share, the people you'd share the locker
rooms with, you, you have to grow up
really quickly, in those environments.
Some of the kids that, that, I call
'em kids, but the young men that
arrive at college are still not
quite ready in terms of the maturity.
And what it takes to, to be,
whether it's, you know, a college D1
athlete or D2 athlete or, or a pro.
I don't think they quite
underestimate what it takes.
Whereas like when I was growing up
playing, I was fortunate or unfortunate,
whichever way you wanna look at it.
Like, I was a young kid coming through
into an environment where a lot of
the players that I ended up sharing
the locker room with were guys that
I kind of, they'd had their careers
and they were the Welsh Premier League
for a year or two, and then retire.
And then some of those characters that
you end up sharing the locker room
with and the things that the level
they'd played at, a lot of them former
pros and whatever level that might be.
And
yeah, you gotta grow up
quickly because if you don't.
Then you're gonna, you're gonna
hear about it pretty quickly.
So I think that's the, I think one of the
biggest differences, I think, whereas I
don't wanna call it coddled, but, I did.
But, you Like the professionalization
of the youth game here is, it's good
and it's bad, like the facilities
and the resources that are available
to these players in this country.
I had ne I never had anything like it.
Liron: yeah.
What did, Matt, what did the, how
did Sean McCaffery describe it?
the international tournaments American
kids coming out of what is say,
Matt: Jump jumping outta range
Liron: Jumping out Range Rovers
Matt: Makes it a little bit different
as far as their level of hunger.
So you just touched on a little bit.
So you've been here for,
I think you said 13 years.
Finished your playing career here, then
transitioned over onto the coaching side.
Have spent time coaching USL League two
teams, successfully Long Island Ruff
Riders, which is a club that's been
around as long as I've been around,
I think, which is, which is really
long, as, as well as at the college
level in multiple universities as well.
And now as the MLS next, academy director
at Long Island Soccer Club, I'm curious,
aside from the facilities, what have
you seen over the last 13 years and
what are we actually getting right here?
Tom: I think a tough question.
I think there's a lot of good there,
there is a lot of good, I think, I think
US soccer gets us youth soccer gets a bit
of a bad rep at times, but there's also
a lot of good and a lot of good people.
You know, there's, there's a lot of
stuff that, that needs to be ironed
out and can certainly be improved.
But I think that there are a lot
of good things going on and a
lot of good people involved that,
that have good intentions I think.
like I said, I just got back from
IMG for the, for a weekend and,
and Arizona Fest in, in December
time, like the level is good.
Like you, I'm walking around the fields.
I'm kind of double dipping a little
bit 'cause I'm there for the youth
side with that, with the, with
Long Island Soccer Club MS next.
But I'm also kind of there
recruiting for the college side.
And I'm walking around these fields and
the level is really, really, really good.
Obviously, especially within the,
the, if you wanna call 'em the
legitimate MLS Academy teams,
like the level is really good.
They have phenomenal resources.
They've got five or six coaches
on the sideline with them.
I feel like they have a
coach that warms 'em up.
They have a coach that
gives them a water bottle.
They've puts their jersey on for them.
They have incredible resources.
They have everything they
need to be successful.
Which I think again, is, is a great
thing, but it can also, it can also take
away a little bit from, give almost.
So like giving them too much at times,
Matt: So let me ask you, you mentioned
the college game and scouting.
Your assistant coach at Hofstra
on Long Island Division One.
Really solid Division one program.
I think it's like a top
20 program annually.
So I quickly looked at your roster
before we came on today, and I
scrolled, it took me to the 10th
name before I found an American kid.
On one hand you're telling me that the is
really good and you're there recruiting.
On the other hand, I would guess
what is it, 50 to 60% of your roster
is from overseas, is that right?
why is that?
if the talent level is that good?
.
Tom: There's two sides to it, I think.
One piece is what I lent into a moment
ago in terms of the mature piece.
Like we can, I'll get, use an example.
We have a, a Centerback at Hofstra who's
going into his final year playing now
who's played a hundred games in Serie C.
And he's a man and he acts like a man.
He trains like a man.
He leads the team like a
man, and he's got that.
Invaluable experience of playing men's
soccer and the college game is a, it's
a different beast to youth soccer.
It's physical, it's fast
paced, it's ugly at times.
And, that experience is invaluable.
So that's a player that I like.
We can get that guy because maybe
he wants to come to New York and
he wants to be close to Manhattan.
And he maybe has had his career and now
his focus is, oh, I'm gonna come and
play, but I'm maybe, get my education
and maybe get a job in New York City.
That might be his dream now.
Whereas on the flip side, there are some
phenomenal players coming and it's not
like we don't go after these players.
Like we, we go after these players that
are coming out of the US youth system.
It's just, the hard part is, those top
players, they want to go to the ACC,
they want to go to, they want to go
to, a Georgetown or a Penn State or a
Clemson, and they don't particularly
wanna go to maybe like a mid-major
division one school, like a Hofstra.
So for like you just alluded to
'em only, or we've competed on
the national stage for years now.
We've won four out of the last
five conference championships.
And I think, I'm, I think I'm correct
in saying that Hofstra Men's Soccer
has won more games in division
one than any other team in the
country over the last five years.
Matt: Wow.
Tom: For us to compete at that level, then
we do have to maybe go and look elsewhere
or what's the alternative is to be, we'll
just be an our, we'll take the second
or third tier player maybe that Clemson
don't want, or Georgetown don't want.
We're never then gonna compete with
those teams if that's the route you
take, so it's a double-edged sword.
we would love to get, those best top,
domestic players if they wanna come to us.
But again then it comes down again.
They, if they're the top players, they're
gonna want significant scholarship money.
And then you weigh up, okay, do we
wanna put that significant scholarship
money into an 18-year-old freshman
who's done nothing in the college game?
Or do we want to go and get
somebody maybe international
or domestic out transfer Paul?
Or do we want to go and, like I said,
we can go and get somebody who's played
close to a hundred games in a top division
in n It, he played and played men's
soccer already for three or four years.
Matt: And just to be clear, you guys are
not the only school doing this, right?
This is pretty widespread, so I
think everyone's trying to compete
at the highest level they can.
And if you can get a center back
from Italy who's played in instead,
achieve a hundred games, I don't know
anybody who's gonna say no to that.
Any university for that matter,
who's gonna say no to that.
Liron: I don't know if you can tell,
but, I, I have a skin in the game here.
my, I, uh, obviously as a parent
of an American kid, can't help but
make a scrunchie face because you
want to have more opportunities for
our kids, Let's put the Pro aside.
Aside, 'cause that those numbers are
meaningless, but college is a real path.
Are these freshmen or 17, 18 year olds
actually ready to compete at Division
one ncaa what is the shock value?
What is it that they should expect?
Tom: There's a huge acclimation.
I think it's the jump is huge.
I don't think people realize quite,
and it's not necessarily technical
it's the pace of the game, it's
the physicality of the game.
It's the dark arts of the game.
You know, it's, it's those little things
that I think are, become as quite a
shock when players, do arrive on campus.
And to your point, if they're 17, 18 year
olds who have always been the best player
on their team or told how great they are,
and then all of a sudden you're not the
best player on the team and you could be
in some instances, like if, if you're at
a four year school, you're three years
younger than some of those guys, and
you're not necessarily the best player.
That's a tough, that's a tough
learning curve for some people.
from our U 19 team, for example, at
LISC, we've had a great, we've had
a, we were obviously worried about
that team 'cause we're a brand new
club into MLS next with the pathway.
So we were kind of concerned that, we
were a first year team, how are we gonna
convince, you know, top, top players to
come and play for us year, you know, as
a brand new team, especially if they're
gonna be U 19s, it's gonna be their senior
year, they're really gonna make that jump.
They se considering all of
those things, like our U 19
team's done phenomenally well.
I think they've lost one game in the
regular season, and then they went
down to IMG and made the final this
weekend, which was, which was cool.
And we've just committed five of those
guys off that team already, which is still
fairly early in the recruiting process.
We've, we've just committed five
of those guys in the last two
weeks to division one schools.
The path is still there.
The landscape has shifted dramatically.
It's getting later and later, and it's
becoming more and more difficult for
it's a really hard time to be a top
domestic American player trying to
go to college just because the nature
of the beast has changed, and it's
driven by football and basketball, the
revenue generating sports, like they're
the ones that have pushed for this.
But what's happened is, the roster limits
at Division one, for example, I don't
know how much you guys know about this,
if you opt into the revenue sharing model,
then you're now limited to 28 spots.
So teams that used to carry
maybe 35, 40 players on a college
roster, now they have to go to 28.
Before you even talk about the
incoming class, those excess
players have gotta go somewhere.
Where do they go?
They went to the transfer pool,
now they're in the transfer portal
and they can now, maybe they drop
down a level from a top tier one
division, one team to a mid-major.
Okay, now their players
have gotta go somewhere.
And now there's this trickle down effect
of, they call it the level throughout
should get better in theory because,
those players are filling spots that
maybe they wouldn't have taken beforehand.
But it also means there's way
less spots for incoming freshmen.
And again, like I said before the
coaches are gonna, they're gonna
go to different buckets, right?
Like they're, the first shop
they're gonna go to is probably
gonna be the transfer portal.
Like, why are we gonna, why are we gonna
take a risk on a 17, 18-year-old freshman
That's done nothing in the college game.
a player that we can, I can Google
somebody's name and that's in the
transfer portal and it pops up.
They've played 60 division one college
games already, and, got some good stats
and got great footage of them playing
in whatever conference they might be
playing in on Why Scout is the tool
we use to go and watch their games.
And I can go in there and click on every,
I wanna watch every single tackle, I
wanna watch every single header they make.
I wanna watch every
single one v one battle.
Like I can go into Wesc Scout and watch
all of that on that player that's now
a much lower risk player to take than
somebody, like I said who's not really
done anything in the college game yet.
So it's tough.
The path, I think that the path
maybe has just changed a little bit.
There's different routes to, if
your dream is to play division one,
there's still a way to get there.
If you're a top top player, you're
still gonna get found and you
can still play at division one.
Or maybe now the path is, okay,
maybe I need to go and consider a
division two, division three school
or an NAIA JUCO school and kill it.
And now all of a sudden I've got
some stats under my belt, some game
footage under my belt, some college
games under my belt, and now maybe
I transfer up to division one.
Because there's, unlimited transfers.
Now it's a free fall.
So we've gotta rebuild our roster
every year, guys, we, like you said,
we just made the Sweet 16 last year and
lost on penalties to go to the Elite
eight, and then half the team wants to
cash in and go on the transfer pool.
Matt: Oh my gosh.
Tom: 'cause they think they can,
maybe they go, they can go and
get paid elsewhere, et cetera.
So now we've gotta replace all of those.
And, the first place we're gonna look
then is obviously the transfer pool.
So I think it's a bigger,
it's a bigger, it's an NCAA.
Matt: Yeah.
Tom: Issue that doesn't help, and
again, but again, it's driven by
basketball and football and these
other revenue generating sports,
Liron: they're not competing
in the world's game.
I mean, it's, I'm not saying that there
aren't good basketball players in Europe.
Of course there's many of
'em or about maybe American
football players, I don't know.
But soccer is, is the world's game.
So what you're saying is that the, the
contact book is humongous, it's infinite.
And who wouldn't?
Many would want to come and have a college
experience here as we know personally.
A few of them
Tom: But I think to your previous
question as well, I think part of my
job, especially I, I take on the role
of college coordinator and helping
these kids through the process.
I think just being honest with them, being
realistic with them, trying to trying.
Explain to them that this
D1 or bust mentality is 90.
For 99% of people, you're
gonna end up disappointed.
Like it's, you can still go, there's
some phenomenal schools at every level.
Division one, division
two, division three.
There's some, you know, there's some
not so great schools at Division
one in terms of an experience.
It's about the experience.
Like these, these are potentially gonna
be, or they will be the best four years
of your life if you, if you choose wisely.
And, there's, it's this, I think this
obsession with, I've gotta go D1, and this
feeds into the youth soccer culture right.
As well.
I think it's, you can go, there's some
phenomenal schools at every level.
There's some phenomenally a,
there's academic schools at division
three that have super soccer
Matt: Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I was gonna say, and
then there's this small piece
called the academic side of it,
Tom: Yeah,
Matt: And
Tom: haven't even spoke about that.
Matt: and, and, and cho choosing,
choosing the best fit for
soccer is only one part of it.
Ultimately.
Tom: that's a whole nother, yeah.
Especially because scholarships, athletic
scholarships are like gold dust, right?
So I think everyone's chasing
this athletic scholarship
that it's really tough.
So I think the easier way to get
money to go to colleges is to just
maintain a really good GPA and
work really hard in your academics.
And you can get a huge, hopefully,
depending on the school, you'll get a good
academic package that then, and you're
then instantaneously more attractive to a
college soccer coach because that money's
not coming outta their athletic budget
because it's coming from academic funds.
And now we could just top
you up with athletic money.
So the academic piece is huge and
we stress that to our players daily,
make sure you're doing your homework.
If you're stressed with school,
we're okay with you at times.
If you need if you communicate with us and
you have to miss a practice because you're
really behind, it's about time management,
but schooling is really important.
Matt: To let's, let's shift to Long
Island Soccer Club a little bit.
So I think it was it two years ago or
three years ago where you were granted,
was it two or three years for MLS next and
then you got the full pathway after that.
So what are your two years
Tom: The two years in,
yeah, so we were given like
probationary, the the U 13 U 14.
For, for one year, which, you know,
obviously it was, it was about showing
that we could do it and operations
wise and, and whatever, putting out a
good product, which, I think we did.
And then, yeah, fortunate to get the full
pathway the following year, which this is
kind of, we just completed our first full
season with, with, with the full pathway
Matt: has it meant for the club?
Both.
How have you had to think
about it operationally?
And then what has it meant as
far as talent coming to you?
As in, as opposed to in the past where
that talent may have gone elsewhere,
Tom: I mean, it's, it's, it's awesome.
I think there's a lot more eyes
on you, obviously operations wise.
It's.
MLS has pretty strict standards
in terms of, things you gotta
do on game day, for example.
And, a lot of stuff behind the scenes
that, that needs to get done, to kind of,
to meet their standards, which is good.
I think, having standards is important
and it makes for a better environment,
hopefully, for the players, which is
what it's all about for the players.
And having qualified staff, for
example, like minimum requirements in
terms of, licensing, et cetera, to be
on the sideline with, with MLS teams.
Um, Been a steep learning curve too.
Like we've, we've kind of, like I
said, it's our first year, we're kind
of learning on the job a little bit.
We've made some mistakes,
we're learning from them.
I think, you know, as years go by,
obviously, we'll, we'll lean on those
experiences and be better for it
and hopefully smooth out that path.
there's still players that I can't believe
sometimes, you know, that, that live.
East of us on Long Island that still drive
past us to go to, to other clubs, whether
it be in the city or, or elsewhere.
So I think, we've still got a little
bit of work to do to prove or, or to,
fine tune things and, and make sure
that the product that we are delivering
in terms of, on the field and off the
field experience is of a level where
people don't wanna drive past us.
Liron: Yeah it's actually
exactly what I was leading into.
My next question was how would you
describe, now that you've started, you've
done a full year, what is in your eyes
an MLS next standard in, in an academy?
Is it the organization, like
you said, is it the results,
is it the players themselves?
What is it?
Tom: I think across the board
you've gotta you've gotta improve
everything across the board.
Whether that's, like I said, we
qualified staff is important.
You've gotta have a certain licensure.
We need qualified staff, coaches that,
that, you know, know what they're
doing and can connect with the players,
both, on the field and off the field,
I think is, is super, super important.
And, and it's not spoken about enough.
I think.
Yeah the level of player obviously
that we've been able to attract has
gone up, which is a hard, it's a hard
thing 'cause we've always, it's always
been a kind of quite a close knit
club and then all of a sudden you have
players coming from outside and that
changes the dynamics a little bit.
And now all of a sudden you
starting from scratch again.
And, we had some successful teams on
the boys side for their level, right?
It was whatever, USYS, EDP
type level, playing in state,
winning state cups, et cetera.
But.
It's a whole new, like I said
it's a whole new ball game now.
And yeah, we had a lot of players from
outside then that, that weren't currently
in the club that all of a sudden have an
interest in joining us because they, you
have the badge on your arm and you're
playing in a certain platform, you've
gotta also gotta rebuild your culture
again and make sure that we as a staff
and as a club have certain standards and
we don't bend from those standards just
because we think maybe we can get one
extra player from a rival club, et cetera.
If you want to come play for
us because you believe in what
we're doing and then great.
If you don't, then you
know that's also fine.
There's a lot of good clubs,
especially here in the tri-state area.
But yeah, obviously the
standards go up across the board.
and we've still got work to do.
We, we wanna get better too.
Like we wanna offer more, like it
needs to be, like you said, we don't
wanna coddle them, but there's certain
things that, that, this level requires,
whether it's a, a head coach, an
assistant coach, both with certain
licensure, a sports performance
coach that, can maybe work with them
on the physical side of the game.
Is it sports psychologists?
Which, the, I listened to your episode,
last week or the week before with
the, with the mental side of the
game, which is hugely important, and
especially the environment with all the
pressure we're putting on these kids.
I really enjoy the competitive
side of being in MLS next and
competing with top teams and.
But I, there's also, there's, I don't
love the pressure or I call it pressure.
The win at all costs.
That, that, that's also not us.
With the, whether it's the bio banding
or whatever else, or the style of play.
We're not a win at all.
Cost winning is important,
don't get me wrong.
I think winning at the youth
level is It's very important.
but it can't be, the most important thing
Liron: I want to touch
upon what you just said.
Just push it one next level, because
what's unique about this interview is
that you have seen the transition from
what you called was a community club.
It was a club that kids
in the area played.
It.
It had a certain identity to it.
So now this identity
Matt: Wait, sorry.
Sorry to interrupt.
Was it.
I thought there was a requirement for
Long Island accents and crazy parents.
Did you guys drop that
with an influx of new kids,
Liron: didn't let me in.
Matt: Oh, our listeners
are gonna love that.
Liron.
I know who I know I, I know
who I'm getting messages from,
Tom: You said it.
I didn't say anything.
Liron: But actually Matt's
point, it is exactly that.
It was, there was a culture
in Long Island Soccer Club and
Matt: I think it's Long Island General.
I'm, I just keep going here.
I don't know if it was Long Island Soccer
Liron: says the guy, we're sitting
in a basement in Brooklyn, so we can,
we're high and mighty on everybody.
But it's, so you are seeing this
transition and you're in the helm of it.
Like how do you basically
take that upon yourself?
You inherited a group
of players in all ages.
Some of those players are probably,
and I have to assume would not be what
many would consider MLS next level.
So how do you prepare for that
Tom: It was difficult.
Difficult as a human because
on, on a human level you have
to break up teams almost.
Which was tough.
Like I, I use my, I I've, I, I
coach at the U 17 level, which
is like 2009 born, born players.
It took them when they were young,
and, almost made them like my
own little project to, to kind of
see what we could do with them.
And, and we ended up, creating a,
a, a pretty strong team for their
level, whatever that level was.
Like A-U-S-Y-S kind of regional type team
that, that won a couple of state cups
and went to regionals and, and et cetera.
So they were good for their level.
And then all of a sudden you
get this new badge, right.
And this fancy, shiny platform.
And it's tough to then say, all right,
I think only, the top whatever, I
think was three or four of you guys
we're gonna, we're gonna move you
guys into the MLS next program.
Liron: or four from the whole team.
From the whole squad.
Tom: Yeah.
I think we, we probably took maybe
around five, four or five players that,
but that was a really close knit group.
Like I said, they'd been together for
three or four years, maybe even longer.
They'd had me for four
years as their coach.
And.
It's tough on a human level, like I said,
to then say, ah, you are not quite, I
don't think you are quite at the level.
Maybe you can be a futures player.
And we get all of this out, external
interest then of players that wanna
come join us and, deep down, okay,
We don't wanna go into the MLS next
level and not saying we would've
but get whacked around every week.
'cause that's not a great
look for anybody either.
it's tough, man.
Like I, I found that
really, really difficult.
Like, as, 'cause the these were
my boys and that's just one
age group out of six, right?
So, you know, you had to,
we had to break up teams.
And, we had to, it's tough ask of
saying, okay, I think maybe this
group can cut it at the MLS next
level, at the tier one level, if you
wanna call it homegrown division.
I think maybe, I'm really,
really glad we were able to keep.
The vast majority, if not all of
them, within the club, at least.
Like, they didn't go chasing elsewhere,
which I think speaks volumes.
they didn't go, oh, well, I'm gonna go and
try and play MLS over here or over here.
they stayed.
And I think most of them, if not all
of 'em, are still here between the
homegrown and the Academy division team.
I still think that Academy Division team's
gonna be really strong for their level.
But yeah, like I said,
it's on a human level.
It's tough to then say, listen buddy
I love you, but I think you're an
academy division type level and
not quite ready for homegrown.
And that's not to say, in a year's time
when they get to U 19, they won't be.
Matt: Are you, your coaches?
I think the clubs in the area differ.
Your coaches part-time, full-time?
Some of both.
And how do you see that in the future?
Tom: It's a little bit of both.
right now, we've, like I said, we've.
We've always we have a few college
coaches like myself, that are involved.
Obviously like college coaching
is my full-time job, so I
have two full-time jobs.
Matt: Yeah, I was gonna say.
Liron: I don't know.
You have time to even talk to us.
Tom: it's you, it was been so difficult
to get on the call with you guys as
you can, as but it's yeah, I it's two
full-time jobs, but it's, we still have
some I still think there's some value and
I think the club sees some value in having
a connection to the college game somewhat.
I think as we move forwards and, we
have some full-time staff already,
a lot of full-time staff and I think
that's gonna grow as well as we look
to, streamline things and become more
professional as, as time goes by.
but I still, I think myself, the club
and leadership still see some value
in, in having, a couple of coaches,
that are connected to the college game,
like I said, all of these kids want to
go pro, like we spoke about, like they
all have this dream of playing pro and
we're not here to crush those dreams.
But the reality is the vast majority of
them, if they're lucky, are gonna land
at college still if they're lucky, right?
It is.
They're gonna land at college.
So helping guide them through that process
and helping them find a fit is, that's
gonna be home hopefully for four years.
Who knows what the transfer portal is
still incredibly important, I think.
Liron: Have you seen the, um, the
shift in parents' attitude as well
shifting from pre MLS next to MLS next?
Do you see other pressures or things
that were different from before and after
or that kind of has stayed the same?
Tom: No, I don't think, I think,
like I said, everyone wants to win.
I don't think it's.
I don't think there's pressure to
win necessarily from the parents.
I think they find it tough, maybe
sometimes even more so than the players
do when, like I said, maybe they're
going from being the best player on
their team previously at, at the USYS,
EDP level, whatever it might have been.
And now all of a sudden, you're going
from being a big fish in a small pond
and now you're thrown into the MLS next
level and now all of a sudden you like,
same as what we were saying about the
college game earlier, you're no longer
the best player, and now all of a sudden,
maybe you're a role player instead
of being a starter every single game
I think the parents have a
tough time with that sometimes.
A lot more than the the players obviously
find it tough, but I think, in talking
with the coaches and we give them feedback
I try and tell the players, especially
the ones that are maybe, have taken
up that role that they're not used to.
It's like, okay, if you can, if you zoom
out, you're, you've look at where you've
come over the last five, six years, you
were playing here and now you're on an m,
you've made an MLS next team and you're
contributing to that MLS next team.
Maybe it's not quite as much
as you'd like to be right now,
but look how far you've come.
And I think that's an easier conversation.
But with the parents, I think
they, some of them have a really
tough time with being like, oh,
my kid's always been a star.
Yeah, but it's, this is a new,
this is a new environment now.
Liron: It's a tough conversation for sure.
Matt: I'm, I'm curious,
when kids come in on trial.
I'm not talking about the big tryout days
where there's 50 kids and you're trying
to figure out if there's one or two.
But when the kids come in on trial
and they're training with the team
on a semi-regular or regular basis,
how quickly in general, I guess it
probably depends on the age group.
Do you recognize a kid and say, okay,
that kid can play at this level, versus
a kid has to come back three times, four
times, five times to be evaluated more?
And what are you looking for
or what are you not seeing when
a kid has to keep coming back
before he, he receives an offer
Tom: It's a good question.
I think,
Matt: asking for a friend.
Tom: I think in for the, for
the most part I think personally
anyway, I can't speak for it.
I think you can tell pretty quickly.
If they're at the level or close to
the level, I think, if they're not,
they stick out like a sore thumb.
I think the speed of play, the kind of
the awareness, the, again the physical
pieces obviously is a piece to it, but
I think you can tell pretty quickly
if a player belongs at that level or
not, just based on their game IQ and
the speed of play is everything, right?
Are they capable of playing
off one and two touch?
Can they beat a man, one v one?
Can they defend individually?
All of those other things that you
can usually see within one session.
But I think the bigger piece and the hard
piece is, if you're gonna base it off,
the reason we would maybe wanna bring them
back more than one occasion is to find
out what they're like as a person too.
It's
Matt: How do they fit?
Tom: Yeah, it's so important.
I think it's often overlooked and
people say, oh, this kid's phenomenal.
Okay.
But if he's a, if he's a bad egg and
he is not great for culture, like
he can be the best player on Long
Island we don't necessarily want him.
If, if it's gonna, if it's gonna
affect and upset the apple cart
and, and affect the rest of the team
dynamic, is it worth his talent?
'cause there's a lot of
talented players, right?
And I think, is it worth that talent?
We wanna get to know them personally too.
And it's the same in the college
game as it is in the youth game.
Like people and the type of
person, is really, really, really
important almost before the player.
Because it only takes one, to
upset the whole dynamic at times.
Matt: And then what about, what's
the philosophy or is there an overall
philosophy when it comes to bringing
a kid into the club, for example, do
you want them to be, do they need to
be like a top 11 type of player verse
bringing a kid in who's gonna be 15th or
16th on the roster, but then replacing
a kid who's been there for a while?
Tom: Yeah, it's a good question.
I think again there's
no definitive answer.
I think it's a little bit
case by case, team by team.
If there's if a player's gonna impact
the stein 11, say, or a is gonna be,
like a, a, a. Top third type player
then we'd be, foolish to turn them away.
However, there's also, there's we don't
wanna carry rosters of 25, 26, 27 players,
and now all of a sudden you can only
dress 18 at the weekend and you've got
nine guys that have to, come in their
sneakers and they don't even get to dress.
That's not great for development either.
We want a roster of a certain size
where it's competitive and every
single training session is like a
tryout where you've gotta work and
you've gotta show up and you've gotta
put in, do the right things in order
to make sure that it's competitive.
But.
We're not gonna just gonna take
another player and another player
just because, if financially it's
good for the club or whatever, we're
not gonna take on extra numbers.
If they don't impact that, that kind
of top half of, if not the top third of
the team, then it doesn't make sense.
maybe the following year they, they or
you say, we'd love to, you'd love for you
to come back in the summer and try out
for, when the new season starts almost.
But, or maybe it's, can't guarantee
you game time here, but we'd love to,
if he's a great kid and we want him
in the club, then maybe come back.
We can get you, we can roster you
for our academy division team if if
you do well there, we can make you a
futures player, et cetera, et cetera.
You know, you guys know how it works.
So I don't think there's a, there's
not a definitive answer for us.
It's more of like a. And again, it
could be at this level, it could
be positioning like, okay, we don't
really need a, we're desperate for a
left back, a left foot, a left back.
We don't have one in the club.
or we need another number nine
that can score goals, et cetera.
So it, it's at this level, I think
you can be a little bit more picky.
Liron: we started talking, lately, and
this again, I'm asking for a friend.
I wanna talk about puberty.
The, it, it's something that's, it's funny
Matt: I was like, I don't
know where we're going.
He's already trying to do a,
Liron: it?
What time is
Matt: he's already trying to do a spinoff
Liron: o'clock.
I have the mustache.
All right.
The I don't know, should
I keep this part or not?
Anyways, We know that, puberty
has a huge, effect at ages, let's
say 14 to 17, on, on, just not, I
mean, the biology, the mental game.
Kids who were fast all of a sudden
are not, and big or not, and so forth.
How do you handle that?
What is, how do you see that?
And do you have this concept of
late developing kids, or that's just
you, basically, your, your window
of opportunity is short, which is
really only those three, four years,
and you gotta just go with what, be
what's best in front of you right now.
Tom: yeah, I think I'd like to say,
and I'd hope that you, we'd look past,
just the pure physical attributes,
which I think, again, it goes back
to that win all costs unfortunate,
it's within youth soccer, it's at all
levels, not just the MLS next level.
It's at every single level.
You see it across Long Island
where it's just win at all costs.
Let's get the most physical players in
and we'll get a goalkeeper that can launch
it, the length of the field, and we'll get
the super fast, strong, early developer
up top and we'll whack it to him or her,
and hopefully they can score eight goals
a game and everyone else can watch.
maybe you've got a, like you said
a stud number nine that scores,
six goals a game for you and
your team wins every single game.
Six nil, and that player scores all six.
And the parents are all happy, right?
Because the team's winning.
That's great, but then I
always say, okay, what if that
player then gets plucked right?
And that player's taken outta that team.
How does the rest of
the team then operate?
Can it still function
without that one player?
So I think, I'd like to
think myself and the staff.
We, we look past the
purely physical attributes,
especially at the younger ages.
I think as you get older and older
and older, the U 17, U 19 players
that are thinking about college,
the physical part of the game
actually becomes very important.
Not saying it's the most important
or the only thing, but it does
become more and more important.
But in the younger ages in particular,
I think we'd be foolish to look past
a player because he is, maybe a step
slow or, is not quite filled out
his bo his or her body quite yet.
I think we'd be foolish to look past that.
And I think the bio banding
initiative from MLS next is a really
good idea if it's used correctly.
Matt: Yeah, exactly.
If is the operative word, I
Liron: If it's explained though too,
if it's explained correctly, which
Tom: But I think we've, it,
it needs to be used correctly.
Like we, we've made a point of, we're
not gonna bio band three players in
every age group to sandbag the team
below and chase wins because that's
not what it's there to be used for.
It's there for a legitimate player
who, okay, maybe this, this kid
has something, but he's not quite
physically aware where he needs to be.
So let's play him on a
team, until he's ready.
I think it's a great idea
and a great initiative.
I know there's procedures and
protocols you have to go through to,
to prove the bio band if you like.
But, I think then it
does more harm than good.
Matt: not just for the club,
but also for the kid, most
You may and may be maybe from a a
level perspective, they could be bio
banded, but yet, if they're not in
that grade, for example, and they're
one year older and they're one year
closer to college and they're playing
down a year, I think it's hard.
That's a it's a challenge for the kid and
some cases it's probably the right spot.
In other cases it's not.
And like we just have to make sure
that it's the kid that we're focused
on and not the team completely.
Tom: it's marketing, right?
If you're winning every single game and
you can promote that on your social media
and then all of a sudden parents are like,
oh, that's the club I wanna play for.
'cause they win five, six nil every week.
And it's it's, it's all
marketing, unfortunately.
Matt: Yeah.
Liron: So What would be your kind of
blanket advice for a late developing
kid who was great at 12 and also what
would be your advice for the parents?
Tom: it's tough 'cause I'm not a
parent, but I think trying to find
the coach is incredibly important
and the club is incredibly important.
you need to find a coach and a club
that's, like I said before, sees
through or sees past the, the, maybe the
physical, attributes that may be lacking.
And if there's a player in there
somewhere, whether it's, a really high
game iq, whether it's, unlocking passes
that maybe somebody else can't do, or
maybe that technical ability is out of
this world, but they're just lacking
some I think trying to find a club
and a coach that can still nurture you
if you like and be patient with you,
is probably the most important thing.
I think if you're gonna go to a
club that, like I said is only about
winning, and if you can't help 'em win
in the ve like in the then and now,
then you're not important to them.
like I said, we all wanna win.
I like I want, I'm really
competitive, like we all wanna win.
But I think there's a balance.
I think it that balance shifts as you get
older and older, up, up the age groups.
because I do think at the U 19 level, if
you like, we have a responsibility too to
start to teach these players how to win.
And that it is about winning.
Because when you get to
college, it is about winning.
There's jobs on the line and you
do, you're going into an environment
where it is win at all costs almost.
Matt: Speaking of winning
at all costs, the island fc.
Liron: Man, you're on fire today.
Geez.
Matt: Can you share with us, so MLS
next pro team coming to Long Island,
which is called the Island fc.
That's right.
Tom: Yep.
Matt: Is it, are, is that part of
Long Island Soccer Club different
than Long Island Soccer Club?
What is, I haven't quite figured out
what exactly the relationship is.
Tom: So the ownership group is the same.
I think everything will become
much clearer in hopefully less
than six months or maybe sooner.
The fall of, I think the 2027 is
the launch date for the pro team.
So I think it's in everyone's best
interest, especially mine and the other
coaches and especially for the families
that are maybe thinking about joining
the club, I think it's in everyone's
best interest to, to clarify some of
those questions as quickly as possible.
Liron: But the overall effect of the
news, and we started with MLS next
for you guys now the MLS next Pro
team, is there like, do you feel like
there's a rise in ambition in the area?
Do you feel like something
is changing in Long Island?
The talent is always, it's the
same talent, but what is it really
doing to, to the area itself?
Tom: think my biggest hope is that,
as I alluded to earlier, people
stop driving ridiculous distances I
think it's often forgotten, right?
Yeah.
They're top soccer players, but
these are also, they're still kids.
And being in the car for three
hours to practice for two hours
and then three hours back.
And if you're getting back at 11:00
PM to midnight, and then you've gotta
get up for school again the next day.
I don't think that's a healthy
lifestyle for anybody, let
alone a young kid who, I get it.
Soccer might be their passion and if
they should chase that passion and try
and play at the highest level possible.
But I think at some point like I
said, my hope from all of this is
that the best players from Long
Island stay on Long Island and then.
They have somewhere for them to play
that's, like I said, professional and
well coached and well organized, and they
have something to strive for in terms
of a Pro Team right here on the island.
And then all of a sudden they, they don't
need to drive these ridiculous hours
and have these ridiculous late nights
and put all of that on top of 'em, on
top of their schoolwork, which as we
spoke about earlier is so important
and probably an easier path to college
than chasing these soccer scholarships.
we often forget that, that they're
kids and they're, they're little humans
and, we, soccer is important, but it
can't be, it can't be the only thing.
And it can't be their entire
identity, but, so there's.
If there's something right here, close
to home that, that meets their needs.
And I think that's the key piece
is meeting their needs at every
some something for everyone.
Then that's my biggest
hope out of all of this.
Then that starts to shift, hopefully
shift that, that cultural piece.
And I grew up playing for this
team and now I'm gonna go support
this team right here on the island.
But you know, there's, it's no,
it's no secret that there's a lot
of teams that have tried in New
York and, and of, it's not easy.
It's not an easy, it's not an easy market
Matt: There's a lot.
There's a lot going on and it's expensive.
Tom: You've got two pro NBA
teams, you've got two NHL
teams, you've got two NFL teams.
There's and all the Minor league, there's
so much stuff to do, like you said.
whereas in other parts of the country,
you know, you can pop up a soccer
club and everyone's like, oh, I've
got nothing else to do this weekend.
Let's, let's go check it out.
And then all of a sudden
you've got this huge following.
So it's tough, but I'm hopeful
Liron: I can imagine the you gotta
prepare already for the calls.
You're gonna get coach uh, do I take a
college offer or an MLS next pro offer?
There's
Matt: That's a good position
to be in if that's the
Liron: That's, we'll see.
We had, we,
Tom: to you, then you
Liron: we had an interview with
with a player, a former N-Y-C-F-C
player who had that dilemma and
has had his opinion on that.
So it's an interesting situation.
Tom: which way did he go outta curiosity?
Liron: he got a he got
recruited by Stanford.
Then moved to UVA.
Matt: he went to play the UVA
for a bit for I think for a
year, but it was also COVID.
But at that point he decided
he wanted to be a pro.
So he went out and played for L
AFCs second team at the time, And
then he ended up back at N-Y-C-F-C.
Tom: he still playing now?
I think it's important, like
even for even those one, even
those players that make it.
And I had, I've had so many of
those players that play for me
on the Rough Riders USL team
that have gone on to be pros.
A lot of them are still playing,
but a lot of them are also not
and they only finished playing for
me maybe three or four years ago.
And then all of a sudden
they've made it right.
They've made it, they're a pro.
Like this is everything
I've ever dreamed of.
And after a year, it's a short,
it can be a very short career too.
And before you know it, it's
oh shit, what do I do now?
Like my, it's a two year
pro career and it's over.
And then it's okay, maybe getting that
education in your back pocket might
not have been the worst idea either.
And there's still a path to
go pro from college, right?
With a number of players that have
gone pro from Hofstra in the last three
or four years alone is mind blowing.
Liron: That's the idea.
If you're an MLS next kid going
through U 17, 18, 19, you supposedly
should have some college offers.
I know we just said it's
very difficult, but,
Matt: Coach.
We've talked about this seemingly
on just about every podcast, and I'm
curious as an academy director, a coach,
and then also a college coach what are
your feelings on personal training?
Supple su supplemental training.
Is it is it's, oh boy.
I don't even have to ask
Tom: No.
It's not, I'm not 100%
one way or the other.
I think some people do a good job of it.
I don't wanna get into too much
kind of scientific side of things,
but I'm a, there's something
called ecological dynamics, right?
I dunno if you guys heard of it.
Matt: I have, but Liron, a little
Liron: definitely have not.
Then I'd like to hear about it.
How do you spell it?
Tom: it's essentially the theory behind
it which resonates with me, the theory
behind it is that you need, you need to
interpret situations that you are likely
to encounter on a game day, for example,
in order for the transfer of learning
to take place into game day, right?
So if I'm, if I've got, and again
I'm exaggerating here, but I call 'em
Instagram trainers where They have them
with a parachute attached to their back.
They run, they unhook the parachute.
Matt: same example everybody always
Tom: do a cartwheel and then they dribble
through 18 cones that are all messed up,
and then they whack it into an empty goal
or over the crossbar most of the time.
And then it's and then they do
another cartwheel to finish it off
because it looks, and it's okay, how
is that gonna transfer to game day?
So that's my big is that really
gonna transfer to game day?
And even if you've got the greatest
fee ever through those cones,
yeah, the cones aren't moving, that
you're not looking at a defender
right in front of you say, right?
It's perception, action coupling.
You're not looking, you're not perceiving
information, taking that information
in and then basing your decision off
that information that you're taking
in to choose the appropriate skill.
So I'll give you an example, right?
If, if you watch the Champions League
this evening, for example and there was
a striker who a number nine, and the
ball was stuck under his feet and the
only way for him to score was a toe poke.
And he managed to dig that ball out from
under his feet with a toe poke and finish.
You'd say, wow, what a
great bit of improvisation.
Now if you were doing isolated individual
training and you toe poked the ball.
The coach would come and fix
it immediately and say, oh no.
That's not how you kick a ball.
This is not how you strike a ball.
You need to have your foot
like this and whatever.
And again, there's some value to learning
the correct technique, but if that was
the correct technique in that very moment
and it led to a goal and it was the
only technique available in that moment,
then why would you not toe poke the ball
And if it, you know what I'm saying?
So I think there's some value to it.
I think small group training where
players are getting more touches
on the ball, but there's still
opponents, I think is a good way to go.
I think isolated individual training
where they're on their own and they're
dribbling against a cone, or like I
said, unhooking, parachutes to and
whatever else, and all of these bands
coming out their ears and stuff.
I think all of that stuff is it
can be a little bit too much.
And I think some people do it for the
clout on Instagram rather than knowing
the science behind what they're doing.
Matt: Yeah.
Liron: that to parents,
this is incredibly helpful.
Not, again, joking aside,
do you communicate this kind
of point of view to parents
Matt: Yeah, that was gonna be my question
too, like how do parents, especially,
whether it's parents who know the game or
don't, I think we can all be fooled by it.
And I've seen what really good looks
like on that front, and I've seen some of
what maybe really not so good looks like,
but it doesn't, you don't necessarily,
at least for me, I didn't necessarily
understand it all right away either.
and over time I've had a better sense,
I think of what good looks like.
How do parents, aside from if the trainer
shows up with his camera crew, how can
they, and in that case run, run like hell.
Tom: Four bags of equipment.
Matt: Yeah, exactly.
More cameras and crew than soccer balls.
But other than that, how do they identify?
How do they know if their kid
is with the right trainer or
they're doing the right sessions?
I mean, I think the, the piece of advice
around group sessions I think is great.
and that's an easy one
to figure out, right?
What else?
Tom: I think ask, I think you have
to ask okay, what's your background?
Why do you do these things?
Like, how is this gonna transfer to
the, to make my kid better on game day?
Or, I think asking those
questions is a good start.
I think lean on people that lean on
people in the industry that have maybe
been around for a while or, within your
club, if you can ask coaches, there's
some guys that, I know a lot of my
players or players within our club,
they do extra stuff, which is fine.
It's not a bad thing, like doing They
go and seek extra training elsewhere,
which is fine, but also there's,
there's two sides to it, right?
There's, okay.
If you also, if you are already
training three or four times a week
within MLS next and you're playing
on game A, there's a time for rest.
There's a time for rest and recovery.
And I think there's this
obsession with, fomo.
I, I'm missing out.
I need to do more parents, especially
you need to do more, you need to do
more, you need more private training.
more, more, more isn't always better.
And again, going back
to the human their kids.
Let them be kids at times, they're
already doing a lot training three or
four nights a week within MLS next.
Now, I'm not saying that
they shouldn't do extra.
If you wanna play at the highest level,
you gotta do stuff outside of the hour and
a half you see us in, in, in the evening.
You need to do extra right?
But that extra can be a ball and a wall
or playing pickup with your friends is
probably gonna be just as if not more
beneficial than paying $150 to this
guy with his parachutes like I do.
I do think.
I know, I'm, I keep I'm joking.
Matt: No but it's,
Tom: little bit facetious, but I
do think, you know, that there's
so much, kids don't play pickup.
Like it's, it's, I've actually,
I'm, it's pleasantly surprising.
I'm starting to see more and more
kind of pickup games appearing and
pick up, come play pickup soccer,
and then that stuff's important.
Like, 'cause again, you, you're
getting loads of touches on the ball.
Maybe it's three V three
four V four, you're getting
loads of touches on the ball.
You're playing with your friends
you're competing and, uh,
Matt: but you're willing to try
stuff and you don't have a, you
don't have a coach who, yeah.
Tom: loads of one v one battles and
deuls, which is, you know, you don't,
you're not gonna get, like I said,
there's some small group trainers
that do a good job of making sure
that it, it will transfer to game day.
Be aware that there's a lot of people
just trying to make a quick buck out
there doing this, who maybe, maybe
they'll say, I played pro, right, I
know what I'm doing, kind of thing.
But playing pro and coaching
is not the same thing.
Yeah, when we're in our team meetings,
for example, like when we have the
team meetings, either before a fall
season or before spring season, I would
say, we're okay with you doing extra.
But remember to rest, remember to
recover is also, super important.
A good night's sleep and eating well
is gonna do probably just as much if
not good, more good than going and
doing an, getting up at 5:00 AM to do
an extra session because it looks cool,
Liron: You do something very unique
where you're a director at an MLS
next club dealing with kids all the
way to the age of 17, 18, but you're
also heavily involved in the college
part, which is the kind of next stage.
Tell me, is this, are you the same person
in both roles, or do you have to think
differently when you look at the game?
Tom: it's a good question.
I think, this.
Obviously in the youth,
depending on the age.
Again, like I, I know I keep
going back to the age and stage.
I think, especially in the younger
teams, within the club, you know,
obviously they're ranked on quality of
play, which is another conversation,
but they're, It's certainly, you
know, it's, it's developmental.
Our job is to develop these players,
hopefully of capable of playing,
whether it's at the college level
or, or, or the level beyond that.
Like that's our job is to try and
develop players capable of playing
at, at the highest possible level.
So it is developmental.
Now, that's not to say that college is
not entirely developmental, but it is
also, you know, our job, if you like,
at the college level is to win games.
And like, as I alluded to before, Hofstra
men's soccer in years gone by has done
a pretty good job of that, especially
over the last five or six years.
in terms of my own personality, I try
and stay true as much as possible.
I think, obviously you've
gotta be a little bit.
You've gotta tailor your coaching a little
bit to the age that's in front of you.
But at the same time, I think going back
to what we said at the very start I'm
not here to coddle these guys either
the young ones and within ML s next, I
think there's too much of that going on.
I think the players are more interested
in posting a clip on Instagram or posting
a picture of them playing on Instagram
than they are about the, how well the
team does, which really bothers me.
And I tell them like, I'm
a fairly straight shooter
when it comes to that stuff.
And I'm like, listen, if we've lost
a game five, two, and the only thing
and the only thing you care about is
posting your assist for one of those
two goals then there's an issue here.
And I think.
Matt: crazy.
Tom: It's become an epi,
it's become an epidemic.
It's nonstop.
And it happens at the college level too.
Steven Roach, who's the head
coach at Holster, he's one of
my, one of my best friends.
He, I, I don't want, I hope he doesn't
mind me sharing this, but he, we
had a pre-season meeting, or we had
10 new players in for this spring.
So we had, a few weeks
ago, we have a meeting.
He said, if any of you post
your own personal clips after
a loss, you'll be out the door.
And I think it's it's
trickling, it's at all levels.
I think it's
Matt: Oh, I love that.
Yeah.
Tom: from this obsession with
social media and it's all about me.
And there's not enough we anymore.
And I think it's across the board, both
in the college level, the MLS level,
and I think trying to get back to
understanding that soccer is a team game.
Not an indi.
If you wanna play an individual sport,
go and play golf or go and play tennis.
This is a team sport and
it's about the collective.
And I think we, and I try and
encourage our staff to be real, and
I don't think there's enough real.
Coaching that goes on in the youth game.
Now I'm not saying, and then
there's a line like I, these
kids, again, they're kids, right?
They're here to learn, they're here
to grow, they're here to develop.
But at the same time, I think
it's super, super important to
also teach them life lessons.
Hold these kids accountable
for certain things.
'cause that's how it's
gonna be both at college.
And, especially definitely when you're
a pro or if you go in, if you don't
become a pro and you go into the, you
know, the, the working world you're gonna
be held accountable for things, you're
gonna have to work as part of a team.
It's not gonna be about
me, me, me, me, me.
I think real there's a real lack of real
coaching and connecting with the players
on a personal level, I think too many
coaches are obsessed with their zones and.
Matt: dude, there's so much over coaching.
I feel like at the.
Tom: the Twitter coach, we've already
talked about the Instagram coaches.
Now there's the Twitter coach
or the ex coaches where they
just spew nonsense and nonsense.
And they're more concerned
with their inverted fullbacks
Liron: Yeah.
Yeah.
Tom: and, their zone schemes and
zone nineteens and all that crap.
Instead of coach the coach, the player
in front of you and, let's hold them
accountable and let's teach them things
that are gonna put them in good stead for
the rest of their life rather than, all
of this fluff that goes along with it.
Liron: as we try to wrap up, you've,
your time I know is so precious and
you have about six jobs and you're
about to run US soccer as well.
So before that, before
you pick up that job.
The you've been around the block
you probably rolled your eyes as
if at a few of us parents where you
overheard us say things to our kids.
What are there like pet peeves
that you have that, that you hear
on the sideline or you hear things
and your parents go, oh my God, I
cannot believe, just shut up already.
Tom: My favorite one is not in the middle.
Like That's my
like, you wanna just play the
game on the sideline where the
ball can go out at any minute?
Yeah that's my personal favorite
I think and then obviously as you
go up the levels and the ages, you
realize, okay we've gotta maybe play
into the middle to draw pressure to
play on the outside and create space.
Whatever it is.
If you'd said to, if you say to man
city, oh, don't pass it to the middle.
The game, that's where the goals are.
Unfortunately, the goals are in the
middle of the field so at times you
might have to go into the middle.
Yeah.
Matt: think we, we've, I mean, this
has been therapeutic tonight, but
just in general for Liron and I, and
I think we've both, learned a lot
through these different discussions.
And, I think amongst them we as parents,
feel a certain way about whether it's
playing time or whether it's what team
your kid is on, or how often, like how
your kid's being utilized, where the
kid's actually not that impacted by it.
And it's something that, that we
create in our minds, and may or
may not eventually get to the kid.
And, I think that's been the, one of
the consistent things that we've heard
throughout, which is, you guys are with
them in training all the time, right?
We may get them after training, it's
a few minutes in the car or a lot
of time in the car, whatever it is.
But I think that's been one of the
biggest takeaways that we've had
throughout all of this, is that.
The kids are mostly really willing to
work and want to, and get through it,
and then they've got these grownups in
their lives who have like this lack of
patience and instant satisfaction, desire
for instant satisfaction which actually
really hurts the development at times.
Tom: Yeah, it's crazy.
I like you'll, I'll, you'll have a
conversation with, if a parent wants
to have a conversation, and, especially
in my position, I'm, we're willing to
have that conversation and okay, yeah.
We're, we're an open door here.
Let's talk about it within reason.
Obviously, we have to have boundaries.
We're not gonna, we're not gonna
meet you after every single practice
to explain, or after every single
game to explain our decisions.
But, if it does come down to playing
time and then you say, all right I
can get you playing time right here.
You can play tomorrow for the,
let's say it's the ad team, right?
You can play tomorrow.
Oh no, we don't wanna do that.
Okay, now it's not about playing
time, it's now, it's about.
The status on the team or
the, or your personal ego.
It's no longer about playing time
'cause I'm offering you some playing
time here and you're turning it
down because that's gonna, damage,
maybe damage your ego a little bit.
'cause you're now playing on the second
tier team, which, it's, it's tough.
Look, I get it.
I'm not a parent, so it's tough for me
to, I can't put myself in their shoes.
And maybe I'll be a crazy parent
when I when I, my kid starts playing.
But,
Liron: Wait, till you listen to our
podcast when you're a parent, then
then we'll see how smart you are.
Director, I can't tell you how much I
appreciate your time and it's been worth
trying to schedule this, it took forever.
And this is one of these conversations.
Matt, I know you and I agree that this is
really only part one of to be continued
when things evolve in Long Island, and I'm
sure you'll come with many more stories.
Tom: I appreciate you guys having me on.
Obviously, like it's I feel like we've
only scratched the surface of each topic
because like you said, I, there's so many
different things we could talk about.
We could probably go on
for hours and hours yeah.
Liron: Matt and I are
famously superficial, so this
Matt: Oh.
Speak for yourself,
How do you say, wow in a Welsh and Long Island accent?
You had that, I don't know, I have to figure that one out.
I'll do it in post.
But wow.
One moment that stay with me comes early in this
conversation when Tom talks about maturity.
He says, essentially, that in certain environments, you have to grow
up really quickly.
And that idea sits underneath a lot of what we talked about today
This is not just development, but the environment around the
player, who's in the locker room, what the expectations
are, what standards exist every day.
Because those things shape the players long before they reach the next level.
Yeah, and later in the conversation, Tom makes that really concrete
when he talks about the center back at Hofster and says, he's a man
He acts like a man.
He's got experience playing in Sachi.
That line sums up what
the competitive nature looks like when it comes to college.
Because when players move from you soccer into college environments,
the jump isn't just technical.
It's maturity, it's responsibility.
It's a consistencyency, it's experience
and coaches see that difference immediately.
Yeah, there's another moment that really, I really
liked when Tom talks about college soccer, and he says
that if you choose the right place, those could be be the best years of your life.
And that matters.
It's not something that I think about all the time for my son.
But in youth soccer, we spend so much time talking about pathways, levels, and leagues
but Tom keeps bringing back this conversation
to the experience.
What is the fit and what is the environment?
And honestly, this was one of our hardest edits.
There was a lot left on the cutting room floor because Tom has
really three different guests in one.
You're hearing from someone inside the MLS Next Academy environment
inside division one college soccer, and someone
thinking about the next professional layer of the game.
Each one of those could have been its own episode.
Tom Bowen, director, coach,
thank you for joining us.
And to everyone listening, share this episode.
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Thank you for listening.
We'll see you next time.
Man, I feel lazy.
This is Chasing the game