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In Ecclesiastes 3:11, we read that God makes everything beautiful in its time. It is comforting to know that nothing is wasted in God's economy, but all of it will be used for our good and His glory. You're invited to join us for poignant conversations and compelling interviews centered on believing for His beauty in every season.
Everything Made Beautiful (00:01.246)
Well, Yancy, welcome to the Everything Made Beautiful podcast. I am so excited that we are getting to talk today. I've already done your official intro for everybody. So they do, they have heard a lot about you and all your many accolades, but I am really grateful that you said yes to this.
Yancy (00:19.81)
Well, thank you for having me. It's an honor. Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (00:22.624)
Yes, it's going to be fun. So I'd love to just start kind of back at the beginning. You don't have to hit every detail of your life. I don't mean for that to be overwhelming, but you are a preacher's kid. I'm a preacher's kid, pastor's kid. And so I'd love to just hear in your own words, like,
Yancy (00:37.861)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (00:43.532)
What was it like growing up as a PK as a ministry kid? There are a lot of people that listen to both my podcast and yours that identify with that. So I'd love for you to just put some language around what it was like to grow up as a PK.
Yancy (00:58.705)
Yeah, well, I mean, I think my life as a child being a PK was wonderful. Like, you know, I honestly don't have any regrets or any frustrations. Like it was it was all really, really good and beautiful. I think the hardest parts in my story honestly have been as an adult.
And it's a totally different dynamic walking through that role and that title and trying to go to churches and all the things with that attached. But yeah, but my childhood was, was so good. And I'm so very thankful for it and just see how it had so many parts to play and like who I would become, you know, as an adult and just the work that I do.
Everything Made Beautiful (01:32.856)
Yep. Yep.
Everything Made Beautiful (01:48.279)
Yeah.
And so how did, I mean, I know for me, growing up in a ministry home with two parents who were in full-time ministry, church work, it shaped my view of both the church but also God and Jesus. Would you say the same is true for you? Like that was what has shaped who you are today?
Yancy (02:14.636)
yeah, totally. I think, you know, looking on it and thinking about my parents, I think my parents are really good and were really good at...
just talking to us about everything. And so I think they saw literally everything as a teaching moment. And so whether that was referencing their own God story and their own journey of coming to Christ, because they really didn't necessarily grow up in like the typical church families as kids themselves. I think whether it's, you know, helping us see that journey or, you know, being fully aware of broken people.
that you're doing life with while you're doing ministry and you know the stories where something tragic happened or that marriage split up I mean you're seeing firsthand just the realities of it and I think my parents did a really good job of just talking to us and being
Everything Made Beautiful (03:00.269)
Yep.
Yancy (03:17.23)
you know, real and transparent, just about all of it, all for the sake of shaping our heart, shaping our biblical worldview, and, you know, aiming their arrows in the right direction. So I have to give them credit for that.
Everything Made Beautiful (03:23.683)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (03:32.504)
That's so good. Yeah, I would say my experience is much the same. Did you, I mean, you have now gone into ministry yourself. Do you remember a specific or pivotal time when you knew that was going to be your path? Was it just kind of like, well, this is what we do in our family? Or do you remember going, I think God has called me to this specifically as well.
Yancy (03:55.076)
Yeah.
Yancy (04:00.472)
Yeah, well, I think all the above. So, you know, music has been my journey thus far. And I can say like, I know from the time I was single digits that I was confident that like, okay, music is my thing. And this is what God's put me on the earth to do. Now at the same time, in my teenage years, I would have told you, I never wanted to work at a church. You know, I was like, I know what those politics are.
Everything Made Beautiful (04:04.269)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (04:23.637)
Uh-huh.
Yancy (04:28.268)
music has politics too, but I'll take a different set. know, like let's mix it up. And so that definitely, you know, even though I was very attached to the idea of it being Christian music and.
Everything Made Beautiful (04:31.328)
Yeah, yeah
Yancy (04:42.864)
100 % knew like pop music isn't my thing, like it's gonna be Christian. I think there was a detachment that it was easy for me to kind of hide behind and think like, okay, it's not gonna be like ministry in the traditional sense. Now that being said,
Everything Made Beautiful (04:57.934)
Yeah.
Yancy (05:00.592)
I kind of get into it a handful of years and worship, which obviously had always been something I had done and places I had served in church, but leading worship became a bigger and bigger thing. And then in that season of life, leading worship for a lot of different age groups became a thing for me. then once I went through that season of life, I kind of transitioned into the kids and family space.
Everything Made Beautiful (05:21.133)
Mm-hmm.
Yancy (05:30.499)
I think.
It was never anything that I set out to do as far as I could even say related to kids music. There was never one conversation with my parents where they were like, because that's my dad's background as children's ministry, just to be clear on that. So there was never one conversation we had as a family where they said, hey, have you thought about taking the music thing and the children's ministry thing and mixing it together? Honestly, we were not that smart.
Everything Made Beautiful (05:48.856)
Yeah.
Yancy (06:04.836)
but God is so clever and so creative and so he
You know, took me on a journey. I say it was a bunch of easy yeses where it was all very short term little things. Just write this one song here. Put a vocal on this song here for some friends of ours, you know, like all the things. But it was a bunch of easy yeses. And then I got to a certain point in the journey and it was clear like, OK, there's a why in the road. There's a fork here and it's easy to see God's shining a light on this one. And once I got to that point, then it was like,
Everything Made Beautiful (06:15.256)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (06:22.189)
Yeah.
Yancy (06:40.192)
Okay, God literally took all the pieces of my life, put them in a blender, and for once they make sense together, you know? Because He's that good.
Everything Made Beautiful (06:46.466)
Yeah, yeah. That's so good. I remember, I don't know if you would agree with this, when I was growing up in the church, being a worship leader for a living wasn't a thing. Like there was a minister of music in our church and he did that as a job. But you know, I grew up Southern Baptist at a big mega church. And so it was, you know, choir and orchestra and there was a soloist, but even
Yancy (07:03.023)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (07:16.01)
I can remember when the worship team started being a thing and that felt really edgy and cool, but it wasn't until much later. And I would even say early 2000s and maybe even mid 2000s that worship leading in the way that we know it now became something that you even did as a job. and I ended up marrying a worship leader. And so I was like, so you
Yancy (07:35.258)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (07:43.914)
you do this, you travel and lead people in worship for a living and you're able to eat and live indoors doing that. And so that was a different construct than I grew up with. Even being musical myself, but I went to college and was a vocal performance major because that was the way you did music for a living. So it has been sweet to see God give opportunities
Yancy (07:57.659)
Yeah.
Yancy (08:06.48)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (08:13.592)
for leading worship as a way to live and support your family, but also to minister to people. And you and I have something in common in that we love leading worship for the kids and family space. And you have pioneered that space for so many. So I do wanna just say thank you for what you have stewarded and brought to that space because
Yancy (08:28.495)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (08:41.042)
Many, many people have been impacted as a result of your ministry and just your faithfulness with the artistic calling that God has placed on your life. So thank you for that on behalf of all of us. But tell us about your husband and your boys before we move into what you are really dedicating your life to in this season.
Yancy (08:54.35)
Thank you.
Hmm
Yancy (09:01.36)
Yeah, well, I mean, I am married to a non musician, which was, which was the shock of a lifetime to me, because I just thought, why would I not marry a musician and we'll just make music together, you know? But he Yeah, he's that's
Everything Made Beautiful (09:08.918)
Yeah
Yancy (09:22.508)
He's creative in an artistic sense. He does do art and all sorts of like cool sign projects and whatnot works with lots of churches doing that kind of work. But at the same time, like so the opposite of me, which is awesome. So Cory's my husband and then we have two boys. Sparrow just recently turned 14 and then Rhythm is eight and he just recently was water baptized and all the things. So,
Everything Made Beautiful (09:36.696)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (09:51.463)
Aww.
Yancy (09:52.402)
such a sweet season.
Everything Made Beautiful (09:54.062)
I cannot believe Sparrow is 14. I remember when he was born. Like that is insane. Like I know my kids, I guess are getting older and people are shocked when they know how old my kids are, but other people's kids, you just don't clock it the same way.
Yancy (09:57.179)
I know. Yeah.
Yancy (10:04.304)
Yeah.
I know, it's definitely a shock to the system. I feel like him turning 13, I mentally just lied to myself and was like, oh, well that's like barely a thing, you know, like he still is 12. But this feels serious where it's like, no, you have to actually move forward and admit that he's growing up. So, it happens.
Everything Made Beautiful (10:18.125)
Yeah.
Right, right.
Everything Made Beautiful (10:28.588)
Yeah, yeah, it's a big deal. They don't prepare us like they should, I don't think.
Yancy (10:36.13)
There's a lot of memos that don't get sent in the world.
Everything Made Beautiful (10:39.414)
Yes, I agree. That's a great way to say that. So as you have traveled and as you have served in churches and been leading worship for as long as you have, what would you say, I'm going to ask a polarizing question, what would you say have been your greatest joys of what you've seen, but then also what have been some of the challenges that you've observed or experienced?
Yancy (11:02.314)
Hmm
Yeah, I mean, I think the greatest joy is, I mean, like, on one hand, I would say it's conversations with a mom that, for instance, has a child that is mute, and yet the only words that she's heard come out of that child's mouth were a song that I wrote.
Everything Made Beautiful (11:20.942)
Mm.
Everything Made Beautiful (11:27.554)
Mm.
Yancy (11:27.618)
and them singing along to Jose and I like that's a beautiful gift that you can't put a price tag on, you know? I think anytime, I think especially on days that I'm home and a weekend that I'm not traveling or anything and I'm just living life. I've gone to church with my family doing what feels like so incredibly normal.
Everything Made Beautiful (11:31.918)
Yeah.
Yancy (11:50.957)
and then scroll through social media and just randomly push play on some church's little video and when I push play, go, my gosh, that's my song, that's my video, that's my voice. And just realizing I get to be a part of all of those little God stories, all of those children that are represented in those classrooms. It's a small part. I don't take credit for like,
Everything Made Beautiful (12:01.398)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yancy (12:17.88)
the work that's being done in that local church. But through resources I make, through videos I make, and songs I record, I get to be just a small piece in the equation of that child's journey of coming to know Jesus and walking with him. And that is such an exciting, beautiful thing where I anticipate the day when I get to heaven and I'm just able to truly see what that represents.
Everything Made Beautiful (12:41.89)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, so good.
Yancy (12:48.56)
you said challenges. my gosh. I think, I mean, challenges, will say, two things come to mind. it's a subject that I am passionate about. Like I've written a book on it. I have created a curriculum series to help churches teach their kids about worship. Like, I believe in it so much. And yet, it is...
Everything Made Beautiful (12:50.847)
Uh-huh.
Yancy (13:17.302)
a subject that, I wish I had a better way to say this and I have not found another way to articulate it, so if this offends anyone, I'm sorry. But the way I can describe it is just that it's a subject that is not very sexy to most church leaders. As far as the felt need. They are consumed with...
Everything Made Beautiful (13:29.518)
You
Everything Made Beautiful (13:36.034)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, agreed.
Yancy (13:42.393)
the volunteer slots that need to be filled. Like there's a lot of other issues that weigh on them. And so when I don't see church leaders responding and leaning into the subject in what feels like for me, they're not taking it seriously. That's the hard ground that I'm trying to plow. So that is a challenge.
Everything Made Beautiful (14:06.53)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yancy (14:10.956)
and then mixed with...
Digital world has its own challenges because once things aren't tangible that people pick up and hold on their hands how they how they treat that how they choose to pay for that access that all those things Sometimes get to be really murky waters. And so, you know, that's a challenge in recent years is just
Everything Made Beautiful (14:16.93)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yancy (14:42.734)
trying to get people to do things honestly in a way that helps me move forward.
Everything Made Beautiful (14:45.87)
Yeah, I share your burden for adults and leaders understanding the capacity that kids have to worship and to understand that they already are worshiping. It's a matter
of who we are setting in front of them as most worth their worship. And the teaching and the training for kids of helping kids understand that they're worshipers and that they're worshiping, and then to even teach and train who Jesus is and why he is worthy of their worship. I remember when my husband and I became so
Yancy (15:13.381)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (15:39.086)
passionate about that being something people understood. So I share your burden for that. Children's ministry is not babysitting, it's discipleship of the people who will one day lead the churches we, you know, are sitting in and dropping our kids off in the children's ministry of and them understanding that they're worshipers from preschool is so vital. So
Yancy (15:42.564)
Yeah.
Yancy (15:55.534)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yancy (16:05.87)
Yeah, for sure. And I can say, just to go back to growing up a pastor's kid side of things, one of the beautiful gifts that I know I have been given is the fact that I have literally seen firsthand that eight-year-olds turn into 50-year-olds.
Everything Made Beautiful (16:14.389)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (16:28.226)
Yeah, yeah.
Yancy (16:29.038)
that they grow up and they get married and they become grandparents. And I've had a front row seat to see that progression. And so I am able to see that what we are doing is very much a long game. And it is not just about surviving this Sunday.
Everything Made Beautiful (16:33.464)
Yes.
Yancy (16:49.77)
making this Sunday fun, like whatever that looks like. Sure, that's important, but it's a long-range journey and these children that will grow into adults and will grow into senior citizens, like all the things. And so that, that I know is a unique perspective that I am able to have because of my story and my journey that another random church member might not have the same perspective of.
Everything Made Beautiful (17:11.202)
Yes. Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (17:19.094)
So good. talk to us about Stained Glass Kids. What inspired you to start it? First of all, I love the name. So I'd love for you to unpack the name. There may be some people that are like stained glass. What is that? What is stained glass kids and what does it mean to you? And then I'd just love to talk about some of the things that go along with that.
Yancy (17:23.759)
Yeah.
Yancy (17:42.039)
Yeah, yeah, well, I will say I've been on this journey for a handful of years where I just felt like God was highlighting to me pastors kids.
Everything Made Beautiful (17:54.318)
Hmm.
Yancy (17:55.597)
He was making me notice it and care about it. I honestly, there were many times that I was like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do with this besides obviously pray or I might like once in a while, blue moon have a social media post and just ask ministry friends. I know like, what do you, you know, let me pray for your kids. Like who wants prayer in this area? But I, you know, I knew it was something that God was.
Everything Made Beautiful (18:15.948)
Mm-hmm.
Yancy (18:23.242)
showing to me and I just kind of had very much been in a wait and see, you know, take whatever steps I could path the last few years. And I had been on a panel at a conference, let's see about...
17 months ago now, I guess. And in that conversation, which was all about family and ministry families and balance and that and all that kind of stuff, I remember walking back to my booth at the conference and just thought there should be a podcast where we talk about some subjects that don't normally get talked about in church, staff, life, culture. And you know, honestly was like, that's a great idea, but why would I do anything with that? You know, like I've got my
lane that I'm in, stuff that I'm doing. I remember texting a friend of mine and was just like, this should exist, you know. And that was kind of it. And then a handful of months later, I had this meeting with someone that,
Everything Made Beautiful (19:20.962)
Mm-hmm.
Yancy (19:29.034)
had their hands in some podcast production and honestly I thought the meeting would have gone completely different and ended up being something about kids and all the things. But somewhere in that conversation I blurted out my idea and my dad was with me on this particular day and he, you know, I blurted out my idea and immediately it was kind of like, ugh, can I take it back? You know, like, can I retract those words from the room?
Everything Made Beautiful (19:53.206)
Right. Now I've said it out loud.
Yancy (19:57.901)
And my dad brought up and he was like, you've really, you know, been burdened for pastors kids. And when I kind of meshed those two things together.
And I also realized that it could be conversations with these pastors kids and ministry kids. So previously where I had been on my journey, I was thinking like, I've got to have all the answers. I've got to come up with what my 10 points for this breakout is going to be to talk about it with leaders. Because like side note, like why is this subject not addressed at every single church?
leadership ministry conference out there of any variety. I know for a fact it's not being addressed at every single conference. That to me is a red flag because majority of everyone there has a family that this affects. So anyway, so just kind of merge those two things together and left that meeting that day.
Everything Made Beautiful (20:52.941)
Mm-hmm.
Yancy (21:03.28)
to pray about it and at the same time was like so incredibly emotional at the thought of it. And I told a friend that same day, I was like, I think the fact that I'm this emotional about it tells me that I'm supposed to do something with this. But I think the beauty was just realizing it's just people being able to share their story and their journey.
Everything Made Beautiful (21:16.32)
is your answer.
Yup.
Yancy (21:29.456)
and the lessons that God has taught them or all of those things, like that, that is...
all that has to be done. It's not me having every single answer to every single problem that's ever existed and gone on. so, you know, then regarding the name, just as one does, like when they're in a creative process, you're starting to throw things out and had a little list of ideas and some things related to like church kids was already taken, know, doing some quick searches to see what other people
they're using. And so at one point I had an idea and I was like stained glass tears. So I don't know maybe that tells you my perspective on it. yeah, and brainstorming got put together to be stained glass kids, which I think has a lot of meanings because for one, obviously in a traditional sense stained glass is churches. And so it is another way to say church kids.
Everything Made Beautiful (22:15.502)
Mm.
Yancy (22:37.776)
But I think in so many of these stories that do at times have broken pieces, broken parts to the journey or seasons, one of the things that I like to talk about with people is just like what is their mosaic testimony of what God has done in their life. And so stained glass windows.
is a beautiful form of art that we have of the fragments and the pieces or the the properly designed, you know, piece of glass and all working together. It makes a beautiful image. And, you know, what I'm trying to do in this is just to say bring light to the darkest parts of our stories and just be able to share what people have walked through so that we can
Everything Made Beautiful (23:20.376)
Yeah.
Yancy (23:35.619)
and I think it's kind of two-fold. On one hand, it's like the big bear hug that a lot of ministry kids didn't even know they needed. That's what I've heard even from some of my guests where they were like, I was sitting in a Panera Bread and I was sobbing and like I didn't even know, like I didn't know that I needed to hear someone else say these things or like see me, you know, and see.
Everything Made Beautiful (23:53.058)
Yes.
Yancy (24:05.208)
the commonalities in our story. I think on one hand, it's a big bear hug to other PKs that are out there. On the other hand, it is a beautiful case study being handed over on a silver platter that current church leaders, pastors, ministry directors, like whatever your role is.
Everything Made Beautiful (24:22.894)
Mm-hmm.
Yancy (24:29.848)
I mean, hello, executive pastors, please be listening. Because there's so many things that could be learned from that are sometimes little things, you know, but little small modifications that our current churches can make just in how they're leading their teams, how they're caring for their staff families, how you're treating your coworkers' kids, you know, like...
Everything Made Beautiful (24:32.813)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (24:55.308)
Yeah, say more about those things. Like if you had a group of executive pastors that were listening, are some of that wisdom that you would give them?
Yancy (25:02.191)
Yeah.
Yancy (25:06.86)
Well, I think, for one, I think it's...
ways to celebrate those staff kids and honor them for the sacrifice that they make because the journey of a and life of a pastor ministry family is so different from you know for instance my insurance agent you know I was thinking about it I'm like everybody knows everything about these families and form opinions and
Everything Made Beautiful (25:38.126)
Yeah.
Yancy (25:44.909)
all sorts of issues are created because of that. And I was thinking, I'm like, I know nothing about my insurance agents family. Like, sure, I've been in his office once. I'm sure I saw a picture, but like nothing that happens in their family is gonna affect my business relationship with him. I need that insurance. And yet in ministry families, so much other stuff is...
Everything Made Beautiful (25:51.03)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (26:01.272)
Yeah, yeah, it's good.
Yancy (26:12.138)
all piled into the same thing and then we allow it to affect those relationships, our attitudes towards people or all the things. So I think one of my fave, well, let me say this first too. I think speaking if executive pastors were listening, just one thing.
It's so important to remember that these staff members that you have are someone's spouse. They are someone's father, someone's mother. They have kids. And so even thinking within on your own family, as you're walking through and leading them through certain situations, how do you want that done to your child, your spouse?
to your father, your mother, like whatever that looks like. I don't think that side of it is often thought about as people are making the pruning decisions they need to make in life. People just don't filter through that personal side. I think one of my favorite things that has been said on the podcast is we're responsible for how we respond.
Everything Made Beautiful (27:25.453)
good.
Everything Made Beautiful (27:39.159)
Mm-hmm.
Yancy (27:40.657)
And you know, this is for someone who had had multiple generations of some tragic endings in ministry and that family and just the way that his mom was treated.
growing up as a child, you know, the way that sometimes people are asked to exit and leave, the family members that had nothing to do with someone's sin or someone's mistake, that is an incredibly hard journey for people. And I think we could do a lot better. And I just loved his reflection and said, we're responsible for how we respond.
Everything Made Beautiful (28:24.846)
That's so good. people, maybe this is one of the things that you will tackle on your podcast, but people, I don't think realize until they walk through it, honestly, what it's like to have been so far in to something and then be out of something. And the...
Yancy (28:47.033)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (28:51.318)
You know, and a lot of people maybe exit a church staff or ministry role and leave the church. And that's not easy. There's an even harder road of leaving the church staff or the ministry role, but staying at the church. And it is a really bizarre place unless you've gone to it to even describe because you didn't leave.
Yancy (29:07.343)
Yeah.
Yancy (29:14.639)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (29:22.158)
but you did go, you know? And so you're not gone, but you're not where you used to be. And sometimes it feels like death and you didn't die. And sometimes people forget about you like you did die. And that's a strange territory that if people knew about, they might not sign up to be on a church staff as quickly, frankly.
Yancy (29:29.849)
Right.
Everything Made Beautiful (29:50.094)
because I think we can romanticize what it's like to be on a church staff, because there aren't a lot of people talking in a healthy way, I would say, about some of the challenges that can exist. I think plenty of people are talking about church hurt. I think that there is a healthy and honoring and honest and authentic way to talk about some of the tensions that are there to manage.
Yancy (29:50.135)
huh.
Yancy (30:00.198)
Yeah.
Yancy (30:05.625)
Yeah.
Yancy (30:15.748)
Right, right.
Everything Made Beautiful (30:17.87)
And ministry kids have a unique experience. It's a privilege. I have told my children their entire lives. It is a privilege. Your life is not especially hard because you're a ministry kid. But there are also some heavy things about being a ministry kid. So there's the sacred and the heavy. What would you say some of the struggles of ministry kids and pastors kids are?
that they face that churches or maybe less churches and more congregants may not realize.
Yancy (30:52.856)
Yeah, well, every single guest has mentioned the fishbowl, the magnifying glass, the, you know, the glass house. Like every single person has mentioned that. I think one of a couple things that I've noticed is first borns, especially.
Everything Made Beautiful (31:00.066)
Yeah.
Yancy (31:19.266)
take on added pressure in some of those hard seasons. Not because their parents ever came to them and was like, this is what's going on. But just in their role, due to birth order, they perceived the heaviness of certain seasons and they...
Everything Made Beautiful (31:34.286)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (31:40.024)
Mm-hmm.
Yancy (31:41.713)
You self confess, I took that on personally more than I ever should have. And it was never asked of me to take it on, but I did. So I think that's an incredibly helpful thing to know as you lead your family to be looking for that, especially in some of those challenging seasons.
Everything Made Beautiful (31:45.09)
Yeah. Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (31:56.782)
Mm-hmm.
Yancy (32:05.85)
think one of the other things that I've heard repeatedly, honestly, is just that difference of like...
Yancy (32:15.726)
the, in most cases it was the dad being somebody different on stage in pulpit than who they got at home. And that, that gap is pretty damaging to these people. And so I think that's a really good reminder for those that are in leadership to make sure that the best version of you is not the version that everybody else gets to see.
Everything Made Beautiful (32:44.834)
Yeah, only, yeah, for sure.
Yancy (32:46.232)
Yeah, yeah. And then, and something else some people have said in a couple different ways really is just missed discipleship opportunities because of their last name. know, or because you just kind of think like, they're good, you know? So people in student ministry that just didn't have the direct...
small group leader asking them some hard questions or making them.
sing the song of reality in the same way that another student in the room did because they thought they were good or even little things like them not getting the same personal invitation whether that was a postcard in the mail or the phone call saying hey we really hope that you're going to be at xyz event coming up because it's just assumed they'll be there but that that child that person feeling
Everything Made Beautiful (33:43.779)
Yeah.
Yancy (33:49.739)
looked over and missed out because they know these other kids got a personal invitation and they didn't. And you know, like that's one of those things that it's like, that's such a little thing. anybody and everybody can make that change to just see every single person, even if their family is on payroll, you know? Even if you think like, they're fine. But it's like, no, like still ask them hard questions too.
Everything Made Beautiful (33:56.462)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (34:03.543)
Right.
Everything Made Beautiful (34:09.996)
Yeah, that's a good way to put it.
Yancy (34:19.242)
still make sure that they're growing too because I think that's just, I'm seeing that it is more common than you would expect that that is a little mistake, you know, that has been made.
Everything Made Beautiful (34:19.298)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (34:34.434)
Yeah, I can say I can say as a firstborn pastor's daughter, I definitely resonate with. You know, and I will say my parents did not read my brother and I into most of what was going on that I now as an adult know was happening in their roles on church staff. We we rarely knew in real time if something.
Yancy (34:54.639)
Right.
Everything Made Beautiful (35:02.422)
was specifically impacting our parents, but the handful of times that I did know, I definitely struggled not to take up the offense for my dad specifically. And even when I would find things out 10 years later, I struggled not to take up the offense. But I can, especially in a culture now where
Yancy (35:23.877)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (35:29.496)
We've got a lot more access to a lot more information, be it through social media or just the way that we operate. It is always on my mind and this is the next thing that I want to ask you about because you and I are in similar seasons where we grew up in ministry homes with parents in ministry and now we're raising our own children and are both in ministry. And so what does it look like?
to raise them in a way that is healthy and protective of that without the weight of unhealthy expectations and their last name. How do you approach conversations with your boys about the church or about difficult things that you experience or when something does go wrong as it often does, how do you parent through that and what would your advice be to
people who are raising kids in a similar season.
Yancy (36:29.07)
Yeah, well, I mean, I will be honest and say in so many ways, I don't know that my boys would feel like they were like in a ministry family. And that's just because in their lifetime, it's not like I have worked at a church. And so
Everything Made Beautiful (36:41.23)
Mm.
Everything Made Beautiful (36:46.349)
Yeah.
Yancy (36:47.96)
what I do when we're really like on is so splotchy in their world. Like it's just, I don't know. It'd be interesting to see what they say when they're older. But in so many ways I'm like, it's not the same at all. But I think it's just, I think there's a beauty in being.
Everything Made Beautiful (37:00.19)
Yeah.
Yancy (37:12.792)
Honest with your kids and so it's just a little things of whether it's something that you're seeing on TV or whether it's something that's happening within your church family within your little community that you have there where people have made a wrong decision or a decision that has consequences and and I think it's just Unpacking that
in a way that feels appropriate for them in that season of life. But I think just always pointing back and underlining, okay, this is happening because they weren't obeying what the Bible said. Because they weren't a living according to the word. They weren't allowing God to be the person that they feared more than anything else to shape them making the right decisions.
Everything Made Beautiful (37:51.726)
Mm-hmm.
Yancy (38:07.842)
So I think it's just always using those experiences as, okay, this is an opportunity to just highlight to them how much the decision every single day and the little decisions that add up over time to be completely like road shifting narratives in their life. Like those things matter.
And so treat every single one of those little decisions as if it was life altering, really.
Everything Made Beautiful (38:42.594)
Yeah, that's good. What's been one of the most eye opening conversations you've had on the podcast?
Yancy (38:49.159)
my gosh.
The most the most shocking one for me and and also I will say it's been fascinating How many people I did life with that honestly, I didn't know were pastors kids until I was going to Start this podcast, you know, and then it came up in conversation And so one of those people that I've known for many many years I've seen them at tons of tons of conferences had no idea that part of her story and
Everything Made Beautiful (39:07.267)
Yeah.
Yancy (39:19.68)
Her story was crazy because her dad was a pastor and really about the time that she started first grade, her mom stopped moving with them when he went to a new church. And so, yes, and so for the time she was in first grade to college, the mom lived somewhere else, would just take a bus and show up on Sundays.
You know, originally all the time, of course over the years, that gap. But for many, many years she had to lie about where her mom was, if she had a friend over during the week. Like, yes.
Everything Made Beautiful (40:01.92)
because she had just decided she wasn't going to move to wherever
Yancy (40:05.038)
Yeah, because she just was like, I can't do this. And so they stayed married and they live together currently. Once he got out of ministry, they came back together in the same house. But yeah, she pretty much grew up with a mom that was MIA because the mom was so fed up with just what they were experiencing in their church life.
Everything Made Beautiful (40:31.31)
Wow. What has... Yes, I wasn't sure what you were going to say, but that didn't even occur to me. So yeah, that's interesting. Wow.
Yancy (40:32.534)
So that's been the most shocking one for me.
Yancy (40:42.756)
think on that episode, because I did not know that until we were like into it and you hear me go, my gosh.
Everything Made Beautiful (40:49.838)
Yeah, that's definitely a choice. Wow. What would you, what have you been able to experience that you have really seen there be some healing just from the safety of, of having a conversation with someone who can understand the experience?
Yancy (41:09.058)
Yeah, think, man, I think it's just so helpful to know that other people have been in your shoes. It's, you know, of course we know that, but it really hasn't been a subject that is that commonly talked about besides referring to the negative stereotypes of pastor's kids, you know?
Everything Made Beautiful (41:34.264)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yancy (41:37.369)
Which is interesting to me, because it's like even looking at some statistics of that, you've got a third of pastor's kids that walk away. And I'm like, it's interesting to me even that so many, the stereotype is built around one third, when there are two thirds that are moving forward, you know, in a healthy way, doing their best to have an ongoing walk with Jesus, you know.
Everything Made Beautiful (41:55.16)
Uh-huh.
Everything Made Beautiful (42:06.348)
Yeah, that's good.
Yancy (42:07.28)
So yeah, that is what comes to mind.
Everything Made Beautiful (42:13.386)
Isn't it interesting that there are as many unique churches and stories as there are people, yet there is such a commonality of experience in term, you know, we don't have to have gone to the same church, been part of the same family, been under the same pastor, been part of the same church staff. And there are a handful of things
Yancy (42:30.789)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (42:43.348)
that it's just like, wow, all I had to do was change the names, but the circumstances were very similar. And I think in this and so many other ways, there's really more that unites us than divides us. And there's that commonality of experience. You are now providing a way for people to realize they're not alone and they're not weird and they're not the one person that couldn't seem to figure out how to crack the code and it go
Yancy (42:51.429)
Right.
Yancy (43:07.876)
Yeah.
Yancy (43:12.879)
Right.
Everything Made Beautiful (43:13.112)
perfectly and be without pain. So I'm grateful for what you have created and the forum that you're giving people just to be able to tell their story and to and to like you said, move forward in a healthy way to to be able to name it or call it what it is, but then also go. In some cases, how could we break the cycle and this not be something that we perpetuate through just
sheer ignorance or it not being brought into the light. So this might be a strange question, but if you could go back and look at yourself younger and tell yourself something about growing up in a ministry family, what do you think that that would be?
Yancy (43:44.73)
Right.
Yancy (43:48.794)
Yeah.
Yancy (44:08.164)
Well, I mean, I'm gonna go with what popped in my mind first, which is just a lesson I learned in one of those hard, hard seasons as an adult, as a PK, and that is that God is always good, even when his people aren't, never confuse the two. And God is always good, even when his people aren't, never confuse the two.
Everything Made Beautiful (44:24.824)
Yeah. Yeah. Say that. Say it one more time.
Yancy (44:36.536)
And I think when you look at some of the, you know, tragedy stories, for lack of another term, that's usually always gonna be an ingredient into that equation is someone blamed God for some stuff that humans had made them walk through.
had done to them, said to them, whatever it might be. And you've gotta separate the two. And I remember in one of those hard seasons for me in life where it felt like, my goodness, I am standing in the rubble. My life is blown up at the moment. I don't know how to fix it myself.
I literally like I don't know what to do with this. I felt like my only option was to just trust God put it in his hands and allow him to rebuild it into something amazing and I think there's certain people that don't get to that place unfortunately they're not able to just say okay God I'm gonna trust you and said they turn they blame him for it and I and so I don't know that's that's kind of my life motto now that I live by so I think that's what I would
maybe give as the warning message to my younger self to just have had imprinted as a filter in which to process things once you do go through it. And you know, wonderful people that still shaped my faith, that still taught me amazing things, that still...
I live my life and operate based on really good things that I gained in that season and was able to glean from them. But even still, that means...
Yancy (46:32.726)
Mistakes are made and so I think just learning how to separate those and I think like that's a beautiful testimony that I have from one person that was listening to the podcast that you know literally came to her mom and she was just like I realized that
Thought I was mad at God. I'm really mad at some people in my story and her working through and being able to process That you know, I feel like I Feel like the podcast I knew going into it that it was gonna offer healing for a lot of people that just had not maybe felt seen or felt heard or been able to
Everything Made Beautiful (46:55.822)
Mm.
Everything Made Beautiful (47:14.296)
Yeah.
Yancy (47:21.968)
sort through what happened and put it in the right place. Put it back in the closet in the right place where it actually belongs. And so that's what I'm already hearing from this and still anticipate so much more so is just healing that can happen because you listen to someone else's story and
Everything Made Beautiful (47:28.824)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (47:33.666)
Yeah.
Yancy (47:50.607)
You see yourself in it, or you learn from it, so that we can move forward doing church and ministry in healthier ways. Because I really believe too, God is, God was shining a light on this for me saying enough is enough. And there's too many casualties. And there's too many ministry kids that are hurt and bruised. And he's not okay with it.
Everything Made Beautiful (47:52.237)
Yep.
Everything Made Beautiful (48:06.829)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (48:18.53)
Yeah, that's good. And people are leaving the church and leaving Jesus because of the behavior of his followers. And that has to change, for sure.
Yancy (48:19.895)
and
Yancy (48:31.108)
Yeah, for sure.
Everything Made Beautiful (48:33.654)
Well, I'm so thankful for what you're doing. I'm thankful that you were willing to come on this podcast and talk about it because one of the things that I want to see made beautiful in its time is the stories of people who've been hurt in the church and the stories of ministry kids who have been hurt.
Yancy (48:52.175)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (48:54.516)
in their minds seemingly because they were attached to something that was attached to Jesus and God is so capable of and in the business of restoring those things and making them beautiful in his time. So as we close I'm going to ask you the question that I ask all my guests which is if you could architect and craft your perfect beautiful day what would it look like from start to finish?
Yancy (48:59.897)
Yeah.
Yancy (49:07.983)
Yeah.
Yancy (49:24.432)
I mean, there's so many things that come to mind. I would say snuggling with my boys, because there's just nothing better. Good coffee. I mean, I love church, so I feel convicted in this conversation. Like, I have to say that, like I would go to church. I love a good factory tour.
Everything Made Beautiful (49:31.362)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (49:40.974)
Hahaha
Everything Made Beautiful (49:49.006)
Interesting.
Yancy (49:50.065)
of anything. I think I blame Mr. Rogers for this because you know how he would put the film in and like take us to the crayon factory and all that? I think that's where this love probably was birthed. But I do love a factory tour, a good How's It Made situation. Some tacos. Some fresh flowers. And shopping. I mean
Everything Made Beautiful (49:55.414)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Everything Made Beautiful (50:10.018)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (50:16.92)
Yeah. Amen.
Yancy (50:18.832)
I love just a good, you know, I mean, I'm old enough to just love going to the mall. And so I don't get to do that as often as I would like in this season of life. So to just go aimlessly with no need or reason and just shop and look for really fun clothes and shoes, that's a dream.
Everything Made Beautiful (50:40.608)
Yeah, that's so good. I love that day. I was not expecting the factory tour apart. Like that came out of nowhere, but now I'm like, that is super cool to see how things are made from start to finish.
Yancy (50:50.532)
I
Yancy (50:54.414)
I...
tell you one of my life regrets is I was in Buffalo, New York a year or so ago and I'd been there the whole weekend. My sons play hockey and we had been up there for our hockey tournament and we had done some cool things but I didn't realize until like the last day of the trip there was a kazoo factory in the area and they actually did a tour and I was like of course it was like a Sunday or something they were closed when I figured this out and
Everything Made Beautiful (51:23.075)
Yep.
Yancy (51:25.266)
And I was like, my gosh, I could have gone to a kazoo factory tour if I only planned ahead. So I'm trying to like do better of Googling and seeing what's in an area before I go so I can plan accordingly.
Everything Made Beautiful (51:29.806)
You
Everything Made Beautiful (51:37.612)
Yeah, searching.
Everything Made Beautiful (51:42.95)
I, you are the only person I know who looks for factory tours. Like, but now I have a feeling I'm gonna be seeing things like that and texting you and saying, my gosh, there's a tour of the such and such factory that makes the such and such. That's great. Awesome. Well, Yancy, thank you. Okay, perfect. I might become this person. I never even knew this side of myself existed maybe.
Yancy (51:55.31)
Do it.
Yancy (52:00.336)
Yeah. You're invited to go with me.
Everything Made Beautiful (52:12.748)
Well, thank you for doing this. We've had a lot of fun over the years with lots of kids on camp stages all over the country. But I'm really grateful for this conversation with you. Thank you for doing it.
Yancy (52:17.859)
Yes.
Yancy (52:25.454)
Of course, thanks for having me, Shannon.
Everything Made Beautiful (52:27.178)
Absolutely. And everybody listening, I will put all of Yancey's information, the information about the podcast, but also her music curriculum, all those good things in the show notes. And I highly recommend, especially those of you who are in church leadership or who volunteer in your church. And you are always like, man, I wish we had music that was made for kids that they understand with great lyrics and theological content. You want Yancey's music for that.
She has been faithfully putting out just that kind of music for many years now and it's available to you and for you to use. So I highly recommend it. So go give her a follow and go listen to the Stained Glass Kids podcast. You will not regret it, especially if you come from a ministry family. If you don't come from a ministry family, it's still for you because it's going to give you insight and
probably create empathy for those that you know who have grown up their whole lives in ministry. So thank you, Yancy. And to those of you who are listening, don't forget to be on the lookout for the way that God is making everything beautiful around you, including you. And we'll see you next time.