Journey to the Sunnyside

Today I’m joined by Andrea Pain, Executive Director of Moderation Management, one of the longest-running organizations helping people rethink their relationship with alcohol without an all-or-nothing approach. Here at Sunnyside, that philosophy really resonates with what we see in our own community, and a lot of our members actually find support using both Sunnyside and Moderation Management. So today we talk about the story behind the organization, how it has evolved over the years, and why more people are exploring moderation as a way to change their relationship with alcohol

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Sunnyside is the #1 alcohol health app that helps you drink less without any shame, guilt, or pressure to quit. Optimize your alcohol habits to achieve benefits like sleeping better, losing weight, feeling more energy, and saving money. We know that an all-or-nothing approach doesn’t work for everyone, so we focus on helping you set your own goals, celebrate small wins, and build a lasting system of accountability. As a result, 96.7% of our members see a big drop in their drinking after 90 days.

We now offer Sunnyside Med, a new program that provides access to compounded naltrexone, a medication that can reduce alcohol cravings at the brain level, offering a more clinical pathway for people who need it. Sunnyside Med is a complete, holistic approach to help you drink less or quit, including coaching, community, habit change, education, and more to help you create longterm change while the medication does its work.

Disclaimer: This podcast is not intended as medical advice, and the views of the guests may not represent the views of Sunnyside. If you’re concerned about your health or alcohol use, please consider seeking advice from a doctor.

Creators and Guests

Host
Mike Hardenbrook
#1 best-selling author of "No Willpower Required," neuroscience enthusiast, and habit change expert.

What is Journey to the Sunnyside?

Journey to the Sunnyside is a top 1% podcast, reaching over 500,000 listeners every week. It’s your guide to exploring mindful living with alcohol—whether you're cutting back, moderating, or thinking about quitting.

While Sunnyside helps you reduce your drinking, this podcast goes further, diving into topics like mindful drinking, sober curiosity, moderation, and full sobriety. Through real stories, expert insights, and science-backed strategies, we help you find what actually works for your journey.

Hosted by Mike Hardenbrook, a #1 best-selling author and neuroscience enthusiast, the show is dedicated to helping people transform their relationship with alcohol—without shame, judgment, or rigid rules.

This podcast is brought to you by Sunnyside, the leading platform for mindful drinking. Want to take the next step in your journey? Head over to sunnyside.co for a free 15-day trial.

Disclaimer: The views expressed in our episodes do not necessarily represent those of Sunnyside. We’re committed to sharing diverse perspectives on health and wellness. If you’re concerned about your drinking, please consult a medical professional. Sunnyside, this podcast, and its guests are not necessarily medical providers and the content is not medical advice. We do not endorse drinking in any amount.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to Journey to the Sunnyside, the podcast that helps you build a better relationship with alcohol and uncover the secrets to mindful living. Each episode brings you real stories, expert insights, and practical tools to support your goals. Whether you're cutting back, taking a break, or thinking about quitting for good. I'm your host, Mike Hardenbrook, bestselling author, neuroscience enthusiast, and habit change expert. This show is brought to you by Sunnyside, a personalized science backed program that helps you to drink less through habit change, coaching, and community.

Speaker 1:

And for added support, we now have Sunnyside Med, a clinical option offering access to compounded naltrexone, a prescription medication that reduces cravings and helps prevent binge drinking. Ready to start your journey? Get your free fifteen day trial at sunnyside.co. Today I'm joined by Andrea Payne, Executive Director of Moderation Management, one of the longest running organizations helping people rethink their relationship with alcohol without an all or nothing approach. Here at Sunnyside, that philosophy really resonates with what we see in our own community.

Speaker 1:

And a lot of our members actually find support using both Sunnyside and Moderation Management. So today we talk about the story behind the organization, how it has evolved over the years, and why more people are exploring moderation as a way to change their relationship with alcohol. Andrea, thanks for coming on today.

Speaker 2:

Oh, thank you so much for having me, Mike. I'm really, I'm really honored to be here.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. It's gonna be a great conversation. So let's just jump right into it. For people that are hearing about this for the first time, what is moderation management?

Speaker 2:

Moderation Management is a nonprofit organization that was established to provide mutual support to people who want to develop a healthier relationship with alcohol. And we do that through online resources such as virtual meetings. We have online communities. And we also have some thirty day courses that we offer to people to kind of give them an overview of of what we do in So it's really designed to, be an alternative to a traditional recovery mutual support type models and, and just, you know, provide a space for the gray area between the black and white.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. There's a lot of area to cover there, and the more options, the better. And you guys were very early, and I'm very familiar with Moderation Management and our collaboration here at Sunnyside. Yeah. But what I'd love to get into, which I don't really know, is your background and how you got involved with moderation management.

Speaker 2:

Well, it's a it's a bit of a windy story, but at the age of 80, my mom joined AA. And, I I watched this intro incredible transformation in her as she found the support that she needed to, overcome her drinking problem. And more than that, I saw the sense of purpose and community that she found by attending meetings on a regular basis and building friendships and and just how important that community support was to her. And at the time, I was thinking, I really need to make a change in my drinking habits. But I really I knew I wasn't prepared to stop altogether.

Speaker 2:

So I started searching around online, just googling support for moderate drinking, moderate drinking, whatever I whatever my search words were, and I came across moderation management. So that was fourteen years ago. My mom's just about to turn 94 on Friday. And at the time, only had on in person meetings. They had about a dozen in person meetings maybe that were live in The US at the time, but nothing near me.

Speaker 2:

I lived near Toronto, Ontario. And there was nothing close to me. And so I waited, and I waited to see if somebody was gonna start a meeting in Toronto, and it didn't happen. And there were some online communities that I could have joined, but for whatever reason, they didn't resonate with me. And then flash forward to, 2019, and they opened a Facebook group.

Speaker 2:

And that was a community that I felt aligned with and and something that I felt I could engage with easily and and be comfortable in. And that just that was my first experience with and I couldn't believe the the incredible amount of support and learning that I did in in a really, really short period of time with the help of folks who had been in for a while, and learning along with others who were just joining. And that Facebook group has turned into the one that we have today, which is 8,500 members strong and and growing. After a couple of months, I started my own in person meeting, outside the city of Toronto, which converted to a Zoom meeting at the beginning of COVID, as did all of our in person meetings at the time. And and then I just kind of kept volunteering in different capacities, started as a program manager a few years later, and I've been the executive director for the last two years since 2024.

Speaker 2:

So it's been Wow. An evolution. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

What what an incredible story and also such a testament to a mother and a daughter both wanting to address the same issue and finding a different path and finding something that worked and transformed both of you in your own lives.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah. And I was very fortunate that my mom was supportive of the path that I chose, as I was her path, obviously, and and we kinda supported each other on this journey. So

Speaker 1:

What was it in witnessing your own mother's transformation and the positivity that came out of that that made you decide that's not the path or the way that I connect with?

Speaker 2:

I mostly, to be very honest with you, it was coming to terms with whether or not I could call myself an alcoholic. And that's where that that was my boundary. That's where I was struggling. And and real I just really wasn't sure if that was a word that defined my relationship with alcohol. It had come to a point where I felt like it was a a problem and it needed to change, but I wasn't I wasn't I didn't feel like I had crossed that line yet.

Speaker 2:

And yet the funny thing is that line is nobody knows where that line is. There there is no such line is what I've learned since being involved in and and and exploring the recovery community. But that was really the impetus for me that, you know, I'd I'd love everything about this, but I can't I I can't make that statement about myself at this time.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. I think most people listening to this can completely identify that because everyone's on their own journey, and we all are pretty aware of the traditional roots. And like you, others are seeking other ways that they don't necessarily have to define themselves or just the process doesn't connect with them. Right. And, you know, I wish I would have found moderation management at that time because when I was going through things, I wasn't aware of it.

Speaker 1:

And boy, you're lucky that you did and what the trajectory had changed for you. But it was really ahead of its time. And where do you think it was ahead of its time back then?

Speaker 2:

I I think that, you know, back in 1993 and really up until probably ten years ago, there was no such thing as harm reduction in in alcohol recovery. You know, that that if you had a drinking problem, you had to stop drinking. That was that that was and continues to be, unfortunately, the prevailing, perception in in most cases. So back in 1993, for somebody to suggest that there was an alternative to a 12 step, program or a, you know, traditional recovery treatment, which often included 12 step philosophies and and and approaches, I I think that that was hugely disruptive at the time. And it did.

Speaker 2:

It caused a big stir. Audrey got a lot of playtime on on a lot of media outlets at the time because this this was was really a radical change and approach. Now, you know so I I think that that set the stage. Stayed within itself for a long period of time thereafter. And there were some, you know, not so great incidents that, that came about, in the early two thousands that really cast a bit of a shadow over, over whether or not moderation was possible and does this whole thing work.

Speaker 2:

But the cool thing is we're still here, and we're growing, and we're thriving, and we're changing with the times. And and I think that that's what's really important is that we're listening to what's going on, in the recovery world and in the recovery industry. There was a time when recovery wasn't a word that was used in because recovery denoted abstinence, or, you know, stopping using those substances. But we know now that recovery can mean a lot of things, and can be very different to, to everybody. So so I think, you know, I might be answering to, you know, more than one question here, but, but I think at the time when it first came about, it it it created a big stir, and then it it kinda tapered off a little bit.

Speaker 2:

And now we're quietly expanding that conversation again and and just, you know, expanding our reach back into the what would be considered the traditional recovery channels and making ourselves known and and, you know, making sure that people know about us.

Speaker 1:

Yes. And definitely ahead of its time. I love to hear that it's continuing to evolve and change with time, with feedback and experience, and probably more understanding and more participation. Yes. Now I do have to ask because I'm inquisitive.

Speaker 1:

Uh-huh. What was a rough period? And if you don't wanna get into that detail, you could also go into what you learned from it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Well, I think, and anybody can can Google what Audrey's story was. There's there's lots of information about there, about it out there. And so she modeled the program after AA. There were steps, and there were, you know, stringent moderate drinking guidelines.

Speaker 2:

And in, you know, within the literature at the time, said, if you can't drink within these guidelines, then you gotta go back to AA. So it almost still had an element of black and white. And so I think what we learned from that is that offering people choice and flexibility is what really allows them to explore their relationship with alcohol and decide what path works for them in their own time and in their own way. And that's what we're really here to to do for people is to help them, figure out what's gonna work for them. We won't we don't, we always say we don't tell people what to what to do.

Speaker 2:

We tell them what's worked for us. And then people can pick and choose what they think might work for them at any given time. And then they can change that up as things change for them. And and so I think that's what we learned from that whole experience is that continuing that you're in, you're you're in or you're out kind of mentality or philosophy wasn't what people needed. They needed flexibility, and they needed choice, and we've embraced that and and perpetuated it and, you know, softened the edges of to to make it easier for people to to find support through us.

Speaker 1:

Yes. Well, you know, when you say flexibility and the trust and agency to choose Mhmm. The path that aligns with them, it just where you're saying you are and aligned to is almost exactly the definition of harm reduction itself.

Speaker 2:

Yep. Exactly. Exactly. And there's so much talk and so much support for harm reduction in drug use. But even at, you know, a professional conference that I attended last year, people were scratching their heads and saying, so this is, like, harm reduction for alcohol use?

Speaker 2:

And I said, yeah. That's that's one way to describe it. And these are folks that treat people all the time for alcohol, drug, and other types of addictions. And and they were really fascinated that there was actually a way to reduce harm in alcohol use as opposed to just tell people to stop. So, you know, it's there's we still have a long way to go to educate people and to to spread the word, but that's exactly what it is.

Speaker 1:

I think that's exactly right. It's we still have a long way to go to educate people, but just using the the term harm reduction in relation to alcohol or even other habits that are harming us, removing that connotation and maybe stigma, so to speak, from the past and applying it now is is slowly moving in in the right direction along with the alignment of just the methods themselves.

Speaker 2:

For sure. Yep. Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

You know, you have an insider view be through your mom, but also just through your work as well with other communities, including AA. So what have you observed where maybe the perception of this is coming around? Or or maybe all of it's still stuck.

Speaker 2:

Mhmm. Yeah. Well, there's been a, you know, a few instances. I think that there is still I I, you know, I still think full sobriety is is considered the, you know, the the the the the most prevailing path that are that is supported in the recovery industry, and it is a big industry.

Speaker 1:

Yep.

Speaker 2:

The thinking is starting to change. But having the opportunity for us in particular, having the opportunity to do things like this, first of all, get out in the public eye and and let people know that that similar types of of, mutual support, you know, that using a similar support model where it's, you know, peers offering their own experiences to other people. I've been there, done that kind of of support, to others is is available. That, you know, doesn't necessarily mean that people need to make a choice as to whether or not they're gonna stop drinking. You know, having the opportunity to speak to professionals at that conference last year.

Speaker 2:

This year, we've added three more conferences that we're gonna attend and and touching a cross section of different types of of professionals so that we can really get out in front of of some of this stuff. We're talking to counselors and therapists. We're talking to psychologists and and people who specialize in addiction medicine. And that's the you know, the the those are gonna be the people that we get to to talk to about this year. And and I think that that is it's just really important that we start to spread the word at that level.

Speaker 2:

Those are the those are the the professionals that people go to to seek support when they're ready. And if those professionals can give them an alternative, then, you know, I think and it doesn't even need to be It just needs to be something other than that one path that is is has always been the the sort of the prevailing path that professionals offer.

Speaker 1:

Yes. Yes. And I think part of the pushback is that a lot of the people that have gone through those programs, they've been there, done that also, but in a different regard, they've been there, tried it, didn't work, so that it must not work for everybody.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

But it's such a such a narrow view to look at because everybody is so ridiculously different. So I think very smart to get the right people in the right rooms talking about these things and saying, hey. Look. We're actually noticing that this is working for people. And I think what's even more important is that people understand that I don't have to be a, you know, for lack of a better term, alcoholic to need some help with this issue.

Speaker 2:

Yep. You know? Yeah. For sure. Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

The one thing you you you said is whether or not this works for them. And and I think that that's that that's a really key point as well. What does working mean? You know? Does

Speaker 1:

Oh, yeah. Right.

Speaker 2:

It's it's different for everyone. Right? If I'm doing better today than I was yesterday or last week or last month, then it's working. You know? If you came to and you started drinking more and, you know, had had more negative consequences and more health issues and more relationship issues, then I'd say maybe this isn't the path for you.

Speaker 2:

And then, you know, I would encourage someone to explore other resources. But I can tell you 95% of the people who come to us on our based on our last survey, 95% of the people who join reduce their drinking by some measure. And ten percent of them stop drinking altogether. Seventy seventy five percent reduced their drinking by 40% or more. So, you know, the change happens.

Speaker 2:

It but it happens whenever it's meant to happen and in whatever way it's meant to happen, and I think that's what really sets us apart.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Those stats are pretty convincing. Ninety five percent because I don't wanna blaze over. Ninety five percent drink or end up drinking less. Yep.

Speaker 1:

Ten percent give up drinking altogether. Yeah. It really comes down to, like, what what works, this definition of what works or because some Sunnyside members, for example, will come in and their goal is to get down to where somebody's actually starting because they they wanna get lower than that. So for example, if somebody came in and they're drinking 20 drinks and they wanna get down to 10 Mhmm. Well, that person that might start at 10 is saying, this is too much for me, but they wanna get to three a week or something like that.

Speaker 1:

Everybody's goal is different. And if they're getting to what that is, it's working for them.

Speaker 2:

That's right. That's right. It's all about, as I said, circling back to that whole harm reduction. Right? It's about reducing the negative consequences.

Speaker 2:

And and and that's that's a thing to measure. You know? Is Is has my health improved? Has have my relationships improved? Am I more productive at work?

Speaker 2:

Am I you know, the numbers the drinking numbers are one thing, but they lend themselves to all of those other measures that we can identify as well.

Speaker 1:

Yes. So let's get down to a little bit of, like, where you are today with members coming to you. So who's finding moderation management today? And I'd love to know if any of that has changed over time because I think the stigmas are lifting. So I would I would assume, but I don't know that, you know, it's opening up to more people.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. Absolutely. So the majority of people seem to find us through a Google search, more and more through ChatGPT or other AI agents, where they're asking for alternatives to AA or support for moderate drinking. The same terms that I used fourteen years ago, when I first, you know, saw the benefits that my mom was enjoying and sought those same benefits for myself, but with a slightly different slant. And so they come to us, you know, pretty much with that same perception.

Speaker 2:

I need to make a change. Some of them may have tried, an alternative program and just found that they couldn't relate or that it just didn't resonate with them for a number of dis different reasons. And we can all surmise, you know, there's there's lots of reasons why the other programs don't necessarily work. And, you know, they're they're just they're they're looking for an alternative path, and some of them are just plain curious. Can Margaret can moderation really work for me?

Speaker 2:

And so some people and and then there's an kind of another group of people who who seek us out who have already gone through that 12 step process or gone through a recovery process and are thinking, you know what? I'd kinda like to dip my toe back into that moderation pool, but I think I need some support to do that. And so I'm always thrilled to find that somebody who's taken any time off of drinking comes to us looking for support before they make a decision to start drinking again because we know that we can help arm them with the tools that they need to be successful. And so, you know, those are those are the two, I think, main main groups of people who who are looking for us. But, you know, it's sometimes it's just curiosity.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Yeah. So if somebody does come to you, I'm curious to know. I know that you mentioned some things for people to get in involved with, like, programs and meetups and challenges that they can participate in. Are there any other like, is there a getting started kind of, steps when it comes to moderation management when somebody, you know, reaches out and says, hey.

Speaker 1:

I wanna get involved.

Speaker 2:

Right. So we do and we do have a steps of change document, which we are taking another look at this year to see whether or not we really wanna con continue to offer steps because steps have a different connotation.

Speaker 1:

Mhmm.

Speaker 2:

But, again, that's that's that's one of the original documents from when they started back in the nineties. And and we have carried it forward. We've modified and adjusted, as needed along the way. But simply calling it the steps of change, you know, the feedback that we're getting is, but I thought you didn't have steps. So there's that.

Speaker 2:

Sure. What you know, one thing that we really, recommend people consider when they're getting started is our kick start programs. Our kickstart moderation program is a thirty day kind of overview or introduction to the tools and strategies that we share all the time in our meetings and in our online communities that help people start to make small manageable changes in their drinking. And that's what we really, you know, that that's really what we focus on is don't try to swallow the elephant whole. Don't come to and think that, okay.

Speaker 2:

I'm gonna start drinking within guidelines, which we call by the book. I'm gonna start drinking by the book right now. I'm gonna be a moderate drinker today. We try to kinda pedal back a little bit and say, you know what? Maybe that's something that you can aspire to.

Speaker 2:

Those are guidelines, and they're there to help sort of frame what your future relationship with alcohol might look like. It might look a little different from those guidelines, but at least if you've got something, it gives you some, perspective for for where you're going in all of this. But don't try to go from where you are today to there overnight. We just talked about this in a meeting last night. It's kinda like building up a new group of muscles.

Speaker 2:

And you don't go to the gym expecting to bench price bench press your body weight at the first visit. You know that you're gonna start with the little dumbbells, and you're gonna work your way up. And and, you know, someday, you might be able to vent depress your body weight, but it's a long journey. And it takes these slow incremental changes over time that you need to maintain, and then you get to where you wanna go. So, again, I'm I'm kind of circling back to what your question was, but I, you know, I I think that, oh, it was about the programs or where started.

Speaker 2:

So the kick start program really focuses on on what are some of these small incremental changes that you can make. Things as simple as delaying your first drink by an hour or adding an alp a nonalcoholic beverage between every alcoholic beverage. Or my favorite was dropping the bookend drinks. That, you know, every time I went out, I'd have a drink before I went, and then I'd have however many drinks when I was out, and then I'd come home and have the old traditional nightcap. And I thought, why do I need those before and after drinks?

Speaker 2:

Why can't I just focus on the number of drinks I'm gonna have when I'm out? And and that will let me stick to my plan. Otherwise, I'm already a drink in before I walk out the door, and I'm a drink over by the time I get back. And so what does that leave me in between? So, you know, little tips and strategies that that people employ.

Speaker 2:

Maybe you're drinking another room, not drinking not bringing drinks into your house and focusing your drinking time only on social or or occasions outside the home. So the kick start program offers thirty days of of inspirational messages, posts, inspirational and informational messages and posts, a daily tool that you learn about, and, an activity that allows you to put that tool to use. And it's a great way to get an overview of of what moderation is all about. And and it really stemmed from that very first faith Facebook group that I joined in 2019. That's what they did is they posted a different tool every day.

Speaker 2:

So I had my own little kick start program in those first thirty days and thought, wow. Now I have all of these tools at my disposal that I can pick and choose from and use to my advantage, every single day as I as I make a plan and and, you know, endeavor to stick to my plan, throughout the week.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Well, I mean, I can certainly identify with a lot of that because we all want to fast forward to exactly who we want to be. And it's good to hold that in your mind, but also realize that each step of the way or each day of that journey does matter. And the tools that almost seem like they couldn't be that easy to work are the ones that work and really build on transformation. And it reminds me of this quote that I used.

Speaker 1:

I don't remember who I can attribute it to, but it was around your daily your destiny is made up in your daily decisions. And that brings like importance to every single day that you bring because over time, like you said, you don't you build up that muscle, like you just said. And over time and all of a sudden, realize that you are building yourself into exactly who you wanna be.

Speaker 2:

Exactly. Exactly. Another recommendation that I would make to somebody starting out would be to explore our meetings, our online meetings. I would say I would venture to guess that our meetings are probably, I mean, our our meetings on our Facebook group are equally supportive, but those who come to the meetings and who keep coming back to the meetings cannot say enough about the value of those communities. We have I think our average meeting attendance is about 11 or 12 people per meeting.

Speaker 2:

I'm finding that's been growing. I haven't checked the numbers recently, but I know my own personal meeting has been, you know, 15 or more every week, and and it's been wonderful. And some of our meetings get upwards of 25 or 30 people every week. And even if you just go you don't turn on your video, and you don't share, but you listen, and you absorb, and you're supporting other people just by being there and listening. And and there's just there's so much value in in just participating in those.

Speaker 2:

We have newcomers meetings as well that happen four times a month, and they give people a little overview of all of the different types of support available at so that they can kind of, you know, poke around and pick and choose. And and, again, some communities resonate and maybe others don't, but eventually, you sort of find your groove. So

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Well, community can't be overstated. It's so important. This is coming from more of an introvert. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Introverted guy that doesn't really like to be around groups, to be honest. But, you know, I wrote I wrote a book on this. I've spent tons of time researching and the psychology and the science behind it. And community is not just touted from people that enjoy being around people. Community is touted because it absolutely is essential.

Speaker 2:

It is. It is. It is. It is a pillar of life for sure. And and sometimes we lean on that more, and sometimes we don't need it as much.

Speaker 2:

But it's it's it's it's part of of of our well-being for sure. Definitely.

Speaker 1:

Well, now I wanna ask you because people here listening, people use Sunnyside, and some of them use Sunnyside and moderation management. So how do you see the two complementing each other?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Well, you know, there there has been, such an influx in the last, I don't know, less than ten years, maybe five years of of all of these amazing resources that are doing exactly what both and Sunnyside are trying to do, which is just, you know, support people in making healthy lifestyle changes. But I, you know, I think the combination of the community support through, our meetings, our Facebook group, even our kick start programs have their own sub community, their own meetings, and combining that with being able to to really have tangible evidence of the changes that you're making in your drinking progress through the Sunnyside app, having a place to articulate a plan, having the accountability for that plan, and then, you know, being able to track your progress. Data is so important. And and, actually, if you go back to that steps of change document, the first step is to start tracking your drinking.

Speaker 2:

Before you even make any changes, just start tracking where you're at because the power that comes from knowing where you were and where you're where you've come to is is it's indisputable when you can actually see those numbers and chart, you know, chart your path literally through data points. So I think that's really where our two organizations come together and support each other. You know, we have so many members that use Sunnyside. I know that Sunnyside offers as a as an, know, an additional level of support over and above what, what you provide. And it really is a wonderful partnership.

Speaker 2:

We're so, so grateful to to be working with Sunnyside.

Speaker 1:

And thanks for Well, love hearing that. Yeah. Yeah. And and I think we all come from from both the same minds of just offering tools that connect and support people that ultimately

Speaker 2:

in

Speaker 1:

the end, you know, get them to where they want to be because we have that shared collective of just offering support.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1:

Well, if somebody's list oh, I'm sorry, Andrea. Go ahead.

Speaker 2:

Go ahead.

Speaker 1:

You go.

Speaker 2:

I didn't have anything. I

Speaker 1:

Oh, okay. Okay, Andrea. This has been amazing. If somebody listening is curious about moderation management or just moderation in general, where can they go to find out more information? And, of course, if they maybe wanna reach out to you and thank you for this interview.

Speaker 2:

Oh, for sure. Absolutely. Well, our website is moderation.org. On the website, you'll find links to, how to find our meetings through our meeting calendar. There will be links to how to find our kickstart programs, which actually live on a different website called moderationmonth.org.

Speaker 2:

And then you'll other you'll find our other online communities there as well. You'll find lots of resources, lots of information about this whole moderation thing and and what it's all about and how you can be supported, by that. And, of course, you're always welcome to reach out to me personally, Andrea at Moderation dot org. I'd be happy to speak with anybody who's interested in, knowing more about what we do, or potentially partnering with us. And, you know, we're we're we're looking to you know, our our our goal this year continues to be to expand awareness and just let more and more people know that, that we're here to support.

Speaker 2:

And so any opportunity to be able to share about is, is an exciting opportunity for us.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you so much for coming today. Thank you for sharing your story. It's been incredible to listen to. The mission that you're behind, of course, we support that mission and then very pretty much share that mission. So thank you so much for coming on today.

Speaker 2:

Oh, you're very welcome, and thank you very much for having me, Mike. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1:

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